[inaudible conversations] now more from the symposium on the legacy of former president bill clinton. In this portion a of look at foreignpolicy with former mexican president ernesto zedillo, and Clinton Administration officials including former secretary of state Madeleine Albright and former deputy secretary of state strobe talbott. This is one hour ten minutes. Okay. Good morning. For those of use just joining us thank you for being here. First, i wantu to thank dean bailey for moderating our last panel and the mill court school of Public Policy for cohosting our last discussion on bill clintons vision ofn america. And looking forward now to continuing the conversation as we go a little more global. Im mo elleithee, et cetera just visited a pulpit and folks are set the school and we can be more proud to be organizing this clinton 25 symposium. Before before we begin the next conversation, much has been said about our first for your president and his decision to come to georgetown to be, to enter the school of Foreign Service, the only school he applied to as a high school student. In part because he wanted to expand his horizons and get a more global view than some other schools would allow him to. So as we prepared to have a conversation about his global vision, wee thought it would be fun to reflect for a few minutes on bill clinton and his time at georgetown. So enjoy this little walk down memory lane and will continue the conversation right afterwardsve. We are just on the verge of the movie is racial equality. 200,000 converge on the nations capital. There was a lot of political and cultural movements. So we were involved. Was just a very intellectually fascinating time. And then just god those deep fissures that beginfa to emergen the last years with the vietnam war with civil rights. So to be a College Student in washington, d. C. At that time left you with the notion that youve got to do something. Georgetown in the 1960s was primarily new england and catholic schools. When he applied to georgetown it was the only school he applied to and he got in. I met bill clinton the first time i was at georgetown. Everybody was meeting each other and certainly meeting bill clinton because hes a pretty outgoing guy. I noticed him immediately because of his accent. His arkansas accent, all the speed would be laughing and hes having a good time. Things have changed in 50 years. He was very bright and very articulate. He was well known at georgetown. Very friendly, very active. He has this uncanny ability of remember and your family, your friends, your names, your dates. When i would hear and talk or sit on the stoop and expand about something, i was convinced this was a guy going someplace. He is clearly a man of many, many guests. But the one that was absolutely apparent was an incredible gift for interpersonal relations. He was a person who knew what he wanted to do. He said would you nominate me for freshman class president . So i said sure. You just had a sense that he was at some people call him a natural. The ethos of this place, women and men for others, the Public Service. This is very much bill clinton. After Martin Luther king was assassinated, washington blew up. He just took a piece of paper into a a red cross and put on te side of his car and drove down into the area. He wasnt affiliated. He didnt call it red cross, he just went. Always reaching out with that southern people skills that he possessed. So help me god. So help me god. Congratulations. I dont think anybody ever expects a friend to be president of the United States. Of course once he was elected in the back of everybody said was oh, well we have the reunion at thete white house . He was a generous as a friend that he invited all of us to the white house for our 25th and 30th reunions while he was president. I have had the the gentlemans time has expired. Of my life. It is been wonderful to see all of you. I think he is as proud of georgetown as georgetown is proud of him. He has always felt that georgetown made him in many ways. He has a deep affection for i serve and is white house for eight years, and it was always a clear from time to time we would talk about some influence of thisis place. He couldve gone anyplace he so bright light he couldve gone to arkansas and just in surrounded by people from the south, but he chose to go and go to georgetown and me totally different people, experienced Different Things. He always presented himself as a kid from arkansas. Thats who he is. Thats who he was, and he felt that was as good as it got. Because bill clinton has remained the same from the days that he met him at university up to today. [applause] that story about him taking a red cross to the side of the car gets me every time i hear it. Let me start with the housekeeping. Georgetown university is committed to stand at promoting speech and expression, not foster the exchange of ideas and opinions. While it is recognized medical and may share the same views of the speakers, it is expected of you and attendance at this event respect the rights of the speakers and organizing group to share their perspectives andde ideas by not causing a disruption to the events activities. At the conclusion of the that the will be a question and answer session during which you may ask questions and engage in dialogue. Please be sure to fraser, in the form of question. In the interest of time were as each person be concise and ask only one question and we also ask what its heartwarming to see so many people from president clintons class and journalists here, that during the event itself limit the questions to questions from georgetownd the community. We are incredibly excited to partner with the law school of Foreign Service on this next discussion in which real peer back and take a look at how bill clinton view the world. And what americas role is, what kind of leadership role it could take, and how that impacted americas Foreign Policy and National Security during the eight years that he was president and beyond. To kick off the discussion and to make the proper introductions of those who will be participating i like to invite up annie gott, a sophomore in the school of Foreign Service in portland, maine, to introduce our panelists. Annie. [applause] welcome everyone. My name is annie gott and im a sophomore in the school of Foreign Service studying culture and politics. It is my distinct pleasure to welcome you all to todays event and to introduce are incredibly distinguished guests or i became involved with the exit of politics and Public Service my first semester at georgetown and have been a part of the geopolitics family ever since. Working with politics of been incredible way too get involved with some of the best events georgetown has to offer. You certainly dont get opportunities like this at a lot of other schools. But now for the guests we are all here for. Madeline albright secretary of state inri the Clinton Administration from 19972001. Secretary albright was a first woman to albright was the first woman to hold the position and at the time was the highestranking woman in the history of u. S. Government. She received the president ial medal of freedom the nations highest civilian honor from president obama in 2012. Today she is chair of Albright Stonebridge group and Albright Capital management. She is also a professor in the practice of diplomacy in the school of Foreign Service here at georgetown. An author of five New York Times bestsellers shes currently working on her next book, fascism, warning, that would be published next spring. Ernesto zedillo was the 54th president of mexico during the Clinton Administration from 19942000. Since leaving Public Office president zedillo has her diverse boards and commissions focus on the environment, drug policy and elections and democracy. Currently he is the direct of the yale center for the study of globalization at yale university. President zedillo has received many honors over the years including decorations from the government of 32 countries and the franklin d. Roosevelt freedom from fear of war. He is also published for edited volumes in the past ten years including his most recent, africa at a fork in the road. Strobe talbott was deputy secretary of state in the Clinton Administration from 19942001. Before joining the state department he worked at Time Magazine for 21 years where he served in an1 array of post including as washington pritchett, White House Correspondent in state department correspondent. While at times he was twice awarded the edward price for diplomat reported that after stingier as deputy secretary of state he was a founding director of a dealdi center for the state globalization and then served as president of the Brookings Institution from 20022017. He is he is also the author of 12 books. And our moderate today is joel hellman, dean of the law school of Foreign Service here at georgetown. Prior to assuming his current position in 2015 he t served at the world bank in many senior roles including sga institutional economist and director of the center for conflict, security and development in nairobi kenya. Hehe has worked for the European Bank for construction feldman in london and is present at Harvard University and columbia university. Id like to thank dean hellman and the School Foreign service for serving as anen academic partner on this panel. Lastly, please dont forget to engage with us on social media during the event using the hashtag clinton 25. We are are on all social media channels. Now without further ado please give our panelists a warm welcome. [applause] thank you for the great introduction him and its wonderful to have you all here. We have a short time, a lot to cover some going to get right into the questions. Then we will leave plenty of time for students and members of the Community Ask questions. Let me start, mo, set the stage for what were trying to do here, although its wonderful that president clinton graduate from the school of Foreign Service, we know that when he took office as president he took office largely focused on a domestic agenda. Its the economy stupid, real focus on domestic issues. Can you give us a sense, did he come into office for those of you who worked with them from the start with a fully formed and you about americas role in the world . Or did his worldview evolves over time and how did you see that evolution . Maybe we can start with madam secretary. I actually think both. He had a formed of view, mainly because he had studied foreignpolicy a lot here, but also because he had kept up with things that were going on. But i think youre to think about the 90s as a very different phase, where institutions were changing. The world situation was changing. And, therefore, his views a evolved. But i was ambassador of United Nations at the beginning, and he was very clearng about the fact that he wanted action to the United Nations, and he said, its hard to believe that he actually said this, that if you are not president of the United States he wouldve been very happy to be ambassador to the United Nations. And so he recognized the importance of looking at the world through multilateral spectacles. May be strobe talbott. Well first, its great to be here. And i can remember the first time that i met bill clinton. It was at the time that the 32 rhodes scholars of the you were going to sail over to the united kingdom, and he stood out from the very beginning, and i got to know him particularly well when i was there. We shared a house together. His interest in the world was absolutely exhilarating to hear him talk about it. I made a trip, my first trip, to the soviet t union. There was once upon a time of very large country by that name. [laughing] during a christmas break, and he, when i got back to oxford, he just pummeled me with questions. He was full of curiosity. And i might just jump ahead to his coming to the presidency. He was very aware that his chances of being a rather unknown political figure and still be able to ascend to the white house, especially after having to defeat one of the best foreignpolicy president s weve had in a long time, george h. W. Bush, that would only happen because, well, maybe not only happen but he thought it gave him a t huge advantage that the cold war was over. And he came into office wanted to do everything he could to make sure that thef cold war was over and that russia, postsoviet russia, would be able to succeed. More to the story later maybe perhaps. I think i have a general comment. I met president clinton when he had already been president for two years, the time i was elected. But from day one that we met, i had the idea that he did have a vision, and he did have a vision in which diplomacy, engagement, respect to others, active decisions to try to solve problems was in the National Interest of the United States, which is i think the right way to think about this. Yo do diplomacy. You do International Cooperation not because you want to do international philanthropy. Of course at the president in the world has to be absolutely convinced that his country is first. Thats almost stupid to say otherwise. I mean to say, because its obvious. But bill clinton will practice that and would practice that with the instruments that the United States had led to create for the international community. So i agreed with madeleine that he did have a vision, and that vision, you know, working with the multilateral institutions and using diplomacy was extremely important. And working with the neighbors, i i hope i can get into details later. I like to get into some actual examples of him, and we can maybe start with the end of the cold war, nato enlargement. What are the interesting things about the end of the cold war that it did create the possibility of a bipartisan moment in u. S. Foreign policy. I wonder if you can give us some sense off how clinton reacted to that, how he foster bipartisanship, and how he saw through the strategy of american engagement to ensure an effective russian integration into the broader international system, how he moved towards a bipartisan approach to that and worked with our allies to effectively enlarging nato. Maybe we can start with strobe talbott. Yes. He was quite convinced early on that it was important to expand and deepen International Institutions, as ernesto just said. And there was controversy over whether nato had done its thing and should w kind of go into history with a good record of not giving us into world war iii. President clinton didnt see it that way. Remember that there was a horrific war in the balkans,or which was a warning that just because russia and the other postsoviet states were no longer the evil empire and the warsaw pact was no longer the evil empire, there was still a role for nato. And one of the things that he did from the very beginning, and madeleine can tell you more about this, was that he was absolutely committed to the proposition that now that russia was no longer the evil empire, it should be part of a new world order and it would have to have hard power and soft power, and nato was the obvious and most capable source of hard power. And there was one other point he came to talk to a number of us about, and that was if we did not enlarge nato, countries like the one that madam secretary knows so well, i countries that also doesnt exist in its current name, and that was czechoslovakia. If those countries that were caught between the Old Soviet Union and nato, europe, and te european union, and they didnt have a commitment from the United States and from nato to help them as they go forward, a lot of bad things would happen there, and heep kept pointing to yugoslavia as kind of a lesson that we had to learn. Well, i think what was very interesting is that he had in fact, studied how nato had been, well, what happened after the end of world war ii when half of europe was againstst his will, t behind the iron curtain and then the creation of nato and all the various aspects. So he did not come into this kind of not knowing any of the background. What i think is interesting is that he also appreciated something that a lot of people have not thought of, which is that at the end of the cold war the u. S. Was asked to do something that hasnt been done before, which is how to devolve the power of your major adversary without a land war. And so the question was how to bring russia into the system. And what i found very interesting at the time was, and strobe actually was in charge of our relationship with russia then, and i was up in new york, but basically it was building on what president bush had done in terms of the reunification of germany, and then looking at what steps hadki to be taken to respect russia and bring it into a system. And so the whole issue of expansion off nato began in a very stepbystep process with something called the partnership for peace where various countries that had been either part of nato or later part of what had been the soviet union could begin to see how the system worked, and play a role in cooperative action. And i now urge people, there have been some memos that it didnt declassified by the Clinton Library which described how president clinton was talking to president yeltsin at the time about how to do all this in a very staged approach, and in a way that russia would be respected and become part of something, and began to have russianato dialogue. I admire first of all the goal of it, but then also the carefulness with which president clinton directed that we all take steps to do this in some way that was organized and died in fact, respected what was going on in russia. These memos are so worth reading. G. Its what president clinton is talking to president yeltsin and to recognize each others politics in addition to recognizing the issue that they were dealing with. Just one point because what madeleine just said it brings back a very vivid memory. The russians were, hated the idea of nato bombing serbia. But president yeltsin, because of his close tie with president clinton, was absolutely a central in getting the serbian dictator, genocidal dictator moshe vetch out of office, and thereby actually made it possible for us to bring an end to the balkan wars without having to go into a landmark. War. That was i think a huge accomplishment, and a very heroic one on yeltsin is part and it was based on his relationship with president clinton. Were going to talk in a little bit about him as an individual and how we build relationships because i like toe go further into that the first baby if i can ask president zedillo to talk about his vision towards latin america and mexico antipolitical bipartisan relationship there and how he moved to that ford. Well, i think have to start obviously with the case of my country, where i think president clinton gave repeated proof of his vision that could relationship with mexico was very important for the interest of the United States. I think the first test was against what he had hinted or sometimes openly said during his campaign, he became a champion of nafta, right. You remember nafta was really not rejected by congress, at the beginning of the Clinton Administration. He knew that he would pay high political cost for being so proactive in his own c party and also the other major party, you know, punish him for that. And yet he went ahead, and nafta was approved. So that was first test. Second big test was the fact that in late 1994, my country faced an incredibly difficult financial crisis. Practically unprecedented in modern mexican history, and he was only a few days into my administration. I called president clinton and said, you know, bad news, the country is literally bankrupt. I wouldnt call you accept i have powerful reasons. One, i need the support that all of the imf which we already had him admitted because we had to put in place immediately a very Strong Organization and reform program, but the situation is so bad that we need to put together mored resources. And the second reason why i called you is because im in my view, if we dont control the situation we will not only the e mexican crisis, it would be more systemic, certainly it will affect the rest of latin america. And as you saw in 1982 with the debt crisis, the beginning of the debt crisis, it would be systemic to the entire International Financial system. He was a little bit surprised and said how did you not know things were so bad . He said let me talk to he called me back two days later and he said, and that action your committed. Bob and larry say you may be right. [laughing] yes, of course im right. I have a phd. In economics. You only have a law degree. Im just getting. [laughing] from yale. Right, same university. Anyway, he, again, you know, try to go one way to congress. He worked with bipartisan leadership with the two parties. I can, that could not get through congress. At the end i think he did a great act of statement should. He used and all facilities that exist in the 1930s in the treasury to land mexico the money. And, of course, this was not popular because it wasnt popular, at least at of all tod money to mexico. The argument he used over and over again is this is in the interest of my country. He got this very nice way to explain this, i told the leaders that, your neighbors house is burning, you better help your neighbor because otherwise your house can get a fire. Very graphic, very simple arguments. At the end of the day, could not go through congress, but we got the resources and he was already very considerate, that would be all right and it was all right because i think ten and advance, three years in advance, and we always make jokes about this. He said how did you do that . I said you were charged me too high of an interest rate. [laughing] at the end i think it was a good story of cooperation, an active statement ship. So all your stories are starting to get at clinton as a decisionmaker, clinton as a negotiator, clinton as a liberator. I wonder if you can give us sort of some sense, a moment or store they gives an insight into how clinton handled a particular difficult negotiation, a difficult decision. Secretary albright, in your memoir you described him that it was absolutely impossible for anyone to talk him. Period can you give us a sense of how he used his personal style to negotiate around difficult issues and to engage as decisionmaker as president . He was, is a complete extrovert and it really does like people. What he always did was to begin in some way, especially in bilateral negotiations with foreigners is to do something that he knew was important, was to put himself into their shoes and to understand what it is they needed. And that was very clear in just the way the conversations went. He also knew an awful lot about the person and before he began his discussions. What he also was dogged, and he knew that when he went into a meeting that there were certain things that needed to be accomplished. So in between kind of charm and, like your tie opening, and how are your children, he would, in fact, then press the case very carefully. And he knew his fax and he always used them. He was criticized for always being late. He was late because he so interesteded in what he was doig at the time, the meeting. He didnt want it to end. So i do think there was kind of this sense that he liked the subject. He really learned what it was about, and then what was interesting, for instance, at camp david he made it a point of sitting down both with chairman arafat and then with Prime Minister of iraq and made them put themselves into the shoes of the other party. And so that was kind of his way of saying we need to solve this together. It had to be h when went and noa zero sum. He also loved to have us argue in front of him. When there was disagreement in the principals meeting, and he we go into the cabinet room or the oval office, he wanted to know where we are different, why we differed. He would sit there with a cold, ice cold tab can to his head, and then a yellow pad and take notes in columns, and then kind of left what he was going to say. So he was very organized, and yet at the same time very open and friendly. Can you tell us just as a follow perhaps what was the most difficult personal relationship that he hadad with other foreign leaders in terms of its engagement . Well, i think, strobe talked about models of itch and people are really disgusting that he didnt want to meet with, but i think on the whole i think he tried to find something to do with everybody t milosevic he i think there were people that were difficult to deal with, Prime Minister may on yahoo , for instance. And one of the things Prime Minister netanyahu. President clinton had to do with him in a way that was understanding of what he wanted and president , Prime Minister netanyahu would, in fact,is talk tabout, he was spoken idiomatic english and was able to bring thinks in terms of politics. So even though it was difficult i think theyre able to work their way through w it. Madelyn will remember this very well. It was a summit between president clinton to it injured himself and was on, in a wheelchair, and it was one of the most important meetings with boris yeltsin. Boris yeltsin had already reluctantly accepted the fact that nato was going to move into central europe. What he couldnt stand was the thought that three of the former republics of the ussr, the baltic states, would also be in nato. And i can remember, madeline and i would sure were shooed out of the room leaving the only two leaders, yeltsin and clinton. And yeltsin who asked for the oneonone said, bill, i wanto do the following. I want to find a closet somewhere in this house, and you come into the closet with me and whisper in my ear, dont worry, boris, we will never bring in the baltic states. And then what madelyn was talking about kick in. I call it empathy. Putting himself in the other persons shoe. And he made the following argument. He said, boris, it will not be secret. By the way, we are going to do it, but you do not want to be caught in trying to stop these now independent states for taking advantage of an International Institution that will help them have a better future. And if you can think about, think of it in this way, if you try to stop it, your neighbors all around your periphery are going to fear you. And if you open it up and proceed with russia being part of a new europe and a new world because of what youve done, you will go down in history. This is what madeleine and i heard from president clinton afterwards, with that argument yeltsin basically melted and said okay, you win. President zedillo . Well, i think president clinton is an optimal combination of charm, intellectual curiosity, and diplomat. When you put those three things together, its very hard to see in an awkward situation. In addition to our bilateral relationship, we worked together, u. N. And also the epic meetings which we would attend, he would attend practically every u year, when Newt Gingrich would not attend, he would send al gore. And i would see them interacting with russian Prime Minister is. But the Prime Minister not least was attending as Prime Minister. And i could see resident clinton, you know, how he would move things around to engage and to get things decided. A very difficult moment, of course was the Asian Financial crisis, and grabbing a meeting in canada, in vancouver i guess, and the Prime Minister of japan was extremely concerned about the whole situation. An already japan had been in recession for a few years, and their willingness to cooperate and to be more to get the leader, there was not particularly good. And i could see president clinton, not by pushing but by providing what everybody has to put his c own part, you know, gt things moving in the right direction. Well, we are going to go to questions in a minute but before we do i want to go across the panel and ask you, if you could identify perhaps the most exhilarating high point in your engagement in relationship with clinton, and also the most difficult or lowest point, most difficult aspect of the engagement that you had with clinton on foreignpolicy issues at least during your time. From my i have to say is very personal, and it did take place while i was at the u. N. , and it was the deal with the partnership for peace. Th but president clinton was to meet me in prague for the meeting with the czechoslovak said at that time, and what happened was that it was shortly, the meeting was shortly after his mother had died. And the czechs had prepared for taking, for giving him a saxophone and for taking into a jazz club. At the white house advance had decided that was inappropriate. And ive gone to prague first, and so i said to president , i had to go to brussels to pick president clinton up, that i would ask him what he wanted to do. And we had a signal that when we got off the plane how about he would give him a kiss i would whisper what theve decision was. So i asked president clinton and he said of course i want to do it. And so thats what i did. But then the most moving for me was that particular time coming back to the place of my birth, and standing with president clinton in the courtyard of the castle as they played the Czech National anthem, which is where is my home, and the American National anthem saying the land of the free and the home of the brave. And then we went in to have a meeting inn the castle, and present how well said were glad to have your and present clinton said its truly not fair, czechoslovakia has two representatives of the u. N. But the movement, the moving time to have him, they were actually that evening walk across charles bridge together. We went to this jazz club. They gave him the saxophone. He played my funny Valentine Company came back and said dennis at madeleine, you have know how hard it is to play a brandnew saxophone. [laughing] and the most difficult. Difficult would have been this nobody was allowed to leave to go for a meeting and just as he was about to leave, the Prime Minister had a very important suggestiosuggestion about how te it and president clinton took it to the and then what happened was the president came back and said i think weve got an agreement i have to get rid of the underbrush and when i come back you will be done. It wasnt done. I think he was not so happy with me. But one i do have to tell, another one is we were in moscow i was known for my pin that i war. We walk in and president putin turns to president clinton and says we always notice what appears secretary albright lawyers. Why are you wearing those three monkeys . So i actually said because i think your policy in chechnya is evil. [laughter] he was furious at me for good reason and look at me like are you an. [laughter] well, obviously you think about important things for my country, the relationships we develop at these very difficult moment for mexico, by National Crisis is extremely important. We shared not only ideas, but also commitments and i am always grateful to him for what he did. And a moment where it was not easy, he called me she called me from the plane because he had been told that mexico was not supporting the launching of this summit and that was true on the basis thats the United States wanted to launch, we said this is not right here he called me but of course i knew that all the important emerging countries would oppose it. It wouldve been very easy for me to say okay, we will not be a problem. But i said, he is my friend. I respect him totally. So we had this conversation were basically i went to reveal my comparative advantage and try to explain why the way in which they were trying to push for a chapter in the wto was not a good idea and all my arguments i cannot say that mexico is launching. He said well i understand. I was very worried. In that conversation he was a very good friend of mexico and msdn request a conversation and you know how seattle happened. He was not about demonstrations. That is fiction. That is a legend. The time was not right and i guess for political reasons, the u. S. Is pushing for topics that frankly had no way to be adopted. But in any case, i was very worried personally. I was due to come to washington in a few weeks and i had lost the midterm election. I lost mine and now congress could do many things. One of the things they did and does days, the mexican president needed permission from congress to travel outside the country. This was a politically complex moment in my country. One of the Things Congress stayed a favor to me was you are not traveling abroad. Actually i did see him at the aipac meeting and we met again in downloads in january and he was so gracious again. You know, maybe you are right. Okay, thank you. He never thought that. He listened carefully. One of the most fraught and dangerous incidents brought a real crisis he took seriously and also a real trump triumph of diplomacy. One of the perennial hot spot, major points on the planet is the disputed frontier between india and pakistan envoy dennis matalin know about this one. She grew up with it. Her father was working on that very dangerous issue early on for the United Nations. In maineit t. 99, pakistan sent someak of his soldiers over this socalled line of control into indian territory and it was a very hairy situation which wouldve not gone to war between the two countries, but a nuclear war because both countries have Nuclear Weapons. The Prime Minister of pakistan who is now the Prime Minister of pakistan again and the looming prospect of war at indiana and he asked for an invitation. And before we could even decide, an really ruined the fourth of july weekend because president clinton spent basically the whole weekend in blair house talking with hardheadedness and empathy and at the end of a, he actually convinced that he had to order the pakistan name troops moved back into pakistan and not saved something really terrible. It wasnt the best career move for nawaz sharif because he was then thrown overboard were thrown into jail. By the way, the military was going to hang him and bill clinton got on the phone and convinced him to let him go to saudi arabia. So we had the beginning of the weekend we had the prospect of the first realwa nuclear war wih both sides having Nuclear Weapons and we were okay and i wish its in india last week. The second largest country in the world and he is revered there. We now have time for questions. We are taking questions from students and faculty. I believe we have mics on either side. Is that right . Both the left and the right. I c asked a couple things. First come please identify yourself, where you are here at school in if you can have a brief question, please, to the panel. Wait for thest microphone. Hi, im joseph and i am from acquaintance come in new york youre at the college of georgetown. My question is, what did president clinton do toid curb north korea effectively from the Nuclear Weapons as it is a pressing issue here today and made known that north korea was an issue since 1994 between the nonproliferation treaty. Let me say im still the highest level seen official to have gone to pyongyang to meet with the leader on instructions. Or why did happen was that president clinton sent me they are and we had discussions at that time and i met with kim jong ill to talk about issues to deal with their missile limit and also to make sure that they would get really clear capabilities. They were very interesting meetings. We have very little about kim jong il. I discussions on technical matters and this was like in october 2000 we began the negotiations to bottle and pour and i had with me some name that is now well known, but she was my counselor. We worked together and she was prepared to go to those discussions. Then it happened and americans are confused about the election of 2000. Certainly the north koreans were. What happened was that i briefed colin powell incoming secretary of state on where the negotiations were. Colin powell was prepared to continue with what we were doing. And then, there is a headline in the Washington Post that said powell to continue clinton policies with north korea. He was called into the white house and told no way. I hold no brief for the north koreans, but at the time that we are the ones that did not continue the negotiations, but at the time the north koreans could have done maybe to Nuclear Weapons they did not. They w had no fissile material,o icbms. And so i think it was a mistake in terms of not continuing those talks. There is no questions. This has been sent to a since 1953, the end of the korean war. Note peace treaty, an armistice. Also in agreement on no hostile intent, that was also upgraded. So i think that we bear some responsibility, bear most of the responsibility. And then there is really the issue i find interesting. Kim jong il had said he was okay if we kept our forces in south korea. There were a number of Different Things on the table, but we now dont know how things are going to go. The Demilitarized Zone is one of the most dangerous places ive ever seen. Though the nexus of evil turning pointo a when you tell a country the existence of the regime. I do think one of the things in terms of an incredible to the middle east peace talks. And even after camp david, there were all kinds of talks and here we were at the end of the term and the number two north korea had come in order to invite clinton to north korea. When he said they cant just show u up i need someone to prepare the trip, which is what i was doing. But at the end, the choices out there to continue to middle east tax or go to north korea. And it was one of those truly difficult issues for any president of the United States. My name is dennis and ii dual degree. My question is with regards to the last 25 years, the fact that 25 years of russian relations and as Prime Minister medvedev comments at Munich Security Conference this past year, stating that the west and russia are sliding into a new cold war. Does president clinton let back on its last 25 years of u. S. Russia relations and are there any decisions that he would ultimately have done differently . Thank you. I think about that every day. I suspect matalin does, too. Im going to give you a simplistic answer because we dont have time for a sophisticated one. No, i do not think that there was something they could have done for something that we could not have done that wouldve changed this. I think that personalities, individuals really matter in this world. His motives were good. Especially in todays globalize world. He made one horrendous mistake and he actually confessed to it, to his family just before he died and that is the man he put in his place at the turnofthecentury. Well, i agree and i do think there is no way to reiterate how much time president clinton spent in terms of paying respect to russia, working, understanding the fact that we have this peculiar duty to do about the power of our adversary in trying to put itself into president s shoes. I do think that there are those who believe that nato especially was a big mistake. I happen to think the office said in soda strobe and president clinton. I think had we not done that, then first of all those countries we are entitled to, and they had been, quote, liberated by the soviet union against their will and we have in fact offered russia ultimately to come into nato were prepared and wanted to. There have been a lot of myths connect it with this that i think are definitely myths. I do think what was interesting, both stroke and died even i was allowed to stay for that summit despite my early problem. It was interesting to watch because president putin is very smart. He spoke without notes and took notes, but already you could see that he was stiff as a board and unfriendly in so many different ways. He has clearly evolved into Something Like that even more so. I think we did what we could, given what we knew at the time. In the back bear. Blue shirt. My question is, was there also a National Security rationale on president clintons decision to let china joined the wto . From what i know about this is first of all we were generally trying tohi figure out an improved relationship with thee chinese. I am the oldest person sitting up here and was part of the carter administration. One of the issues there was in fact the normalization of relations with china in trying to figure out again how to bring them into the system. Most of the time we dealt with china we had to look at the most favored nations caused and also judge their human rights act to the days and it made the chinese crazy and really was like pulling up a plant to see if there was growing and it really made for a lot of problems. One of the things the Clinton Administration did first was to go foror permanent trading relations andt that was the beginning and then the wto, in order frankly to make the chinese abide by the rules not only because we were saying so, but the International Organization would be able to also go with the same kinds of points in what it was like to join the International Trading system. I think it is always in the interest of anyy country in certainly the United States to have others abiding by a system, having china in an economic power as much as today outside the system had been crazy. A little known fact is the last country, the negotiations with china was not the United States, with mexico. We are very aware right after the indians tested their weapons, he sent top with a team to pakistan and the pakistanis were gracious enough not to blow up their own bomb, just as the plane was getting off into the air after we were trying to persuade them. Of course now we have north korea and matalin was giving you what they tried to do there. Ier do think one of the thins that goes back a little bit to your first question is president clinton said a lot of people hated him about this, talking about loading bridges to the 21st century. I was the last secretary of state of the 21st century and the first of the 21st. The only problem with that statement as they started making it six months after i had been named, which was pretty presumptuous to think he would keep me the four years. He did and so i yam. The bottom line is it was interesting to listen to and think about the various agreements it had to be made, how you really set the stage for having some kind of an organized international system. The summit of the americas, and a number of institutional things. He was trying to solve immediate problems. At the same time he would push us to think about what were the institutional structures that had to be put into place very deliberately and also document where china was going to be a just generally their relationships. I am going to ask the last question, which is we hope that president s learn from each other, and their experience. If you had to crystallize one lesson from the Clinton Presidency and Foreign Affairs to give to the current president , what would it be . I was expect in a much tougher question. [laughter] it goes back to something or not stare saddam thinking pretty much on the first round. Bill clinton came into office convinced that because the cold war was over, because the great schism was passing into history, he wanted to use his president be to make the United States a leader in aea collaborative word and make the United States a leader in International Institutions, the ones of course that mandolin and ernesto knows so well. And i remember once when he was trying to formulate a doctrine for his administration and i think matalin was in the room at the time. And when he talked privately with fast, it was clear that clinton doctrine to have a collaborative world and as you read several books that he has written, particularly proud of that and i know what his advice to the president of the United States would be. Ad backlash in [inaudible] [inaudible] [applause] an event to president clinton, i feel like some of my students were demanding in some demonstrations a couple years ago said we want to save some space and then you come with your questions. I think i would say thats absolutely right. If anybody could explain to the president of the United States that the war is not in economics, insecurity is zero sum gain, we know that somebody has to do so, that would be great. I think that he means that in the school he went, which by the way [inaudible] not as bad of course. I think that is so important. This question of the National Interest you know, the corporation and the National Interest with respect to others is in the National Interest of the United States. He should mean that this country is in the u. S. Is first. Then perhaps respect other countries should be first. Put it this way. America should be first in the leadership of the world. You do that by doing things. That is the thing about no clinton. He would sometimes speak for the domestic audiences, but he was very careful not to Say Something i went back either. Remember, this is unilateral. President clinton had a unilateral moment. And he could be terrible petulant and he wasnt. Thats the big lesson that should be thought about. Its interesting we have a similar theme. Whatn happened when president clinton came into office in the start of also by saint he came in and started talking about the economy. Part of the issue with steve solid presidency spent a lot of time on Foreign Policy and not policy. So what he did that i think was brilliant was to kind of linked domestic and foreign policies. One of the things says he was the first when he used the term indispensable nation. I set a selloff in that it identified as me. He really did say it and he said it in order for the American People to understand that we have tond be engaged, that if we werent that nothing would have been. It was a message that was really supposed to show that our leadership was needed and you pointed out, the duties of the president really is to have your National Interests first and protect your territory, people in way offor life. He understood that took place within an International Setting and one needed to engage and get the respect of the countries and operate with bandwidth the way you treated them as equals. What i am worried about is we are about to become the dispensable nation where nobody thinks we do have a role to play and i would hopee the president , the current one would in fact understand that what he was trying to accomplish requires the United States to be engaged in a respectful way and stopped reading. [applause] stop tweeting. [applause] let me think you for an engaging conversation. Let me think of putting on this extraordinary weekend event, celebrating clinton was 25. In the beginning that call for joining us for this great conversation. I want to remind you to stick around for the next panel on vision of leadership and service and also to tune in to the keynote with president clinton and either inperson or via lifestream at 4 15. And i want to thank you in think the panelists for a great discussion. [applause] [inaudible conversations] house ways and Means Committee started work on the republican tax reform bill monday at noon. The committee continues coming through the belt today and wednesday. Live coverage at 10 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. Org or listen live using the cspan radio app. Whether it is due to the enemy is clever tactics but the conditions, weather or terrain, it seems clear the American Military along with emc has bogged down like the marines in the mind. Made her statement to the world what we would do if we had that part of the world in 1954. We said we would stand with those people in the face of common danger and the time came when we had to put up or shut up and we put up and were there. 50 years later. This weekend on American History tv on cspan 3. Kirsten gillibrand american majority with john corning of texas speak about the mass shooting sunday in southern land, texas. This is 20 minutes. Mr. President , rest to speak about the mass shooting in texas yesterday. The latest mass shooting in what seems like a never ending gun violence in our country. My heart breaks for the