Transcripts For CSPAN2 Sexual Assault In The Armed Forces - Victims Legal Counsel 20171024

Special victims the gold held sole on the expedited transfer policy in the program itself welcome to everybody i would like to hear what you all have to say then we will open up to questions for the Committee Members you are in control of your destiny deciding how you proceed. Afternoon ladies and gentlemen. Serving as said judge advocate over years. Based on my own experience as a judge advocate Administrative Law attorney and the prosecutor. But as the trial counsel. Vice serve as the fulltime special Victims Council through july 2017. In from school in Charlottesville Virginia from Sexual Assault and Sexual Assault victim and counsel as they have indicated with those Services Available to them to be in the military or civilian realm. So to advice to clients at this time whether they have chosen to make a restricted air unrestricted report for victims to receive those necessary services. Only those unrestricted options they are entitled to representation with that client attorney wrote client in then to become involved soon after a report is filed. To appropriately advocate in the best interest of their client independent of the investigative office. Special Victim Council advocate therefore there are times that the death in the Congress Went issue to participate. As a Senior Special Victims Council. To with that special Victim Council serves an average of 18 months to supervise eight fulltime council representing 77 clients. At any one time these read different points of the process. From Sexual Assaults as well as minor fines the majority are former Service Members. I had eight clients you requested expedite transfer or to another installation. Those that have not receive the transfer of discussing that process the pros and cons of the transfer and those parties involved. When moseley advise my clients if necessary and in my experience they all requested transfers received it seven out of eight that it went smoothly in an entirely smooth fashion. One had an issue that was resolved after speaking to a company commander. Was removed i had no problems with them having any issues. They continued to cooperate and do believe the special dictum council of the unit is helpful to those of Sexual Assault and having someone explain things to them. Someone available to them to have that between them was a filter for information with distress and confusion. It is in important assignment. Thank you. Afternoon and the Lieutenant Commander and currently Legal Counsel for Naval Services in washington. As i have been surveying since july 16 i had an advocate on three separate aircraft carriers also fought her at the guantanamo i served as the council 2010 through 2013 currently serving as a Department Head with those proceedings. Over the course of that time feet the average caseload is 34 clients or 40 clients and i currently have 34. There is no typical case. Every single case that we see is different with the needs and as such there is no typical point i received a client had any case it could before it was referred to lawenforcement are with the already made a statement even had a case later the claim was getting ready to go on the stand and then decided they needed legal representation. By absolutely think the program has been beneficial to victims of Sexual Assaults i have received very positive feedback from my client they told me they understand the process and someone to call with their overwhelmed and anxious about their personal legal liability. A cornerstone of my relationship involved expectation management i attempt to alleviate that anxiety they have extreme anxiety about the future and participation in the Legal Process and though legal liability if they choose to go forward. The giant clients are worried about the anode hiking give they targeted set of issues to worry about you should worry about this in this and not that. And it does help them and i have received positive feedback what i often received the client could not have gone forward to the criminal justice process or not have executed the report or into were that the goal process to have that separate from the prosecution staff. In many ways it is a benefit to retention or readiness within the command on one hand by focusing the attention on their jobs and the anxiety of the process and keep them ready. I can tell them to do their jobs even when going through Legal Proceedings to explain the process with all those other agencies try to take away from their time in their job. On the other hand, if the client is not suitable or are struggling significantly i can advise about those best resources available. I am not a doctor so i say very often go see the chaplain in those counselling services and how that will relate to the case Going Forward and affect them on the stand. Taking away that anxiety allows them to get past the barriers to new treatment i can also shepherd them through the process of the medical board in ways that our beneficial to the client. When the client gets to the right process early in a timely fashion that is best for them and the ndp overall. Said to have the victim of Legal Counsel to give unbiased legal advice to understand and that puts the control back in the hands of the client this is the thing about my practice after knowing what is in store once they go forward i will advocate for their rights in the process. But they do not want to go through the process and will advocate for their rights to not be approached by any of the other stakeholders in the process of the criminaljustice process. I can prevent them from being unduly influenced or from being shamed for making a decision about not Going Forward. That is a very stressful decision for a victim of Sexual Assault to make but in the expedited transfer process my role is to advise my clients to give the pros and cons of the expedited transfer to the facts of their case per pica also evaluate the personalities of the commanders involved and also with vice my client how to make the request that will more than likely be accepted within a geographic location to receive that request. I help them to communicate and provide training to victims advocates as they go through their schooling before they take command call that expedited request works and the criteria to approve or deny the request. Approximately onethird of my a clients have required requested expedited transferor and most of those were approved. They do believe the up process is of vital part of the military justice process and it is vital in a beneficial for them to have that access it there is the perceived stigma that is one of the most important things to go forward in the process. In that expedited transferred gives an opportunity to be in a location where they are supported. Of the process in place of the of the the one aspect i would recommend a change is the expedited transfer orders come from the bureau of personnel once they have submitted their request they have detailed orders and there are several criteria the navy has to look at to determine what orders they get and i would recommend that process for expedited transfer me as transparent as we have ventured to make the regular process. There are limitations for the bureau of personnel due to the shore in that timeframe however in the future we can move toward a system in the geographic locations to provide a benefit to their expectation management. Thank you. Please just give me a moment. I and a deputy officer in charge for the of Victims Counsel in the marine corps. Thank you for this opportunity and after my slides are loaded i will mouflon. A move on. Next slide please alibi to talk about our vision. As highlighted the goal is to educate and advocate but what makes it different is we represent the victims of Domestic Violence as well. We take on those cases of violent crimes. Well hold everybody accountable, military judges and commanders drill the investigative process. I have highlighted the of references. I would like to start off the love my experience as a judge advocate but i love this job. Four years of military justice in now going to the regional Victims Council in quantico. Serving the National District of washington. During that time i assisted over 70 victims meeting i was there attorney with the attorneyclient privilege and the others i had confidentiality. My average caseload was about 25 cases and in august i moved up into arlington virginia. In that capacity with the Program Manager of the victims Legal Counsel. I would like to say first readily take a case it depends on when it comes to us i jokingly say we dont go after victor m. Sorrentino go ambulance chasing. We rely on the mandate that they notified the victims of services than we usually provided a referral. Just like my colleagues said before i have victims, we before they are reported all the way until thereabouthereabou t to testify at trial. With that organization is to educate the victims. Because the program will tell them about that but our goal is to make sure they truly understand that not just the policies but i have heard what is already discussed with the safety transfers are adoption and temporary orders away from that location or zero fender but the impact on their career. What is your mos . And in some cases we get that for the victim. If they are willing to do that then that is something we can work out. Also the impact on their case if the victim will move away maybe theyre more likely if they go away from where that is we talk about the transfer if we are in quantico then somebody right there you can walk into and talk. So from where that case would be tried with the defense counsel they make the calls and honor their request. So finding with respect to helping victims we help them with the actual submission of that request. So if those two victims not necessarily somebody that they knew that well. Even those appeals that came up in the last appeal and we will assist them with that. My personal experience with expedited transfer we have inherited seven cases where the victim is a different location and it was granted and then they go to quantico now i am the victim Legal Counsel. I have assisted with six transfer request request but in one of those it did take the discussion because there was a perception there was a potential for misuse of that process with a clients permission i could explain she wanted to be closer to her support person and it was granted. One was denied based on the credible claim standard which would rather not get into the details out of respect for my client was sent on temporary orders so we could accomplish the goal through other means. She was going to appeal because where she was sent but did not end of appealing it. So my personal perception of my clients experience of the expedited transfer is very very positive. I will let met prior to becoming in this position was not sure about the program but now i definitely see how beneficial it is. Here removes them from where the assault has happened and also gets them away from the rumor mill. It is not to be used for safety reasons and that has been stated as a safety transferred expedited transfers i think are still sometimes used to move the victim away if it is not safe and that is a misuse. It is to get them away from the experience not for safety. But the other benefits to experience retaliation so you want to report that than you can imagine why. If the reporter crime you dont want to report and other. One way they can get away from the retaliation is ask for that expedited transfer. Finally gives victims a sense of of power spent it does seem cliche but it does if they can take that power away gives you a chance to take control of your life to get away from that situation. Finally sometimes they want to be closer to a support person. So some areas for improvement the policy e can be viewed as contradictory. Allegedly the policy is consistent with the dod the victim should provide space confidential information in their request however the commander is required to consider ted factors which goes back to the nature and the circumstances of the church but when the victim is only providing the information it can be hard to tell. Obviously it is a restricted in the canteen details from that that the burden is on the victim in this is contradictory also for the commander as well that is a difficult position to put the commander to analyze the factors when the victim only tells you so much of that is the one case that i describe the caveat case the one commander needed more information and we could discuss that. Also an issue of perception. In and that is why we hear all here. I dont think it is the majority of marines but theres still a perception transfers are moving outside of the intended purpose. That the victim just wants to get out from the station it want to go from North Carolina to jacksonville. Also which was highlighted so handling the prosecution and the defense may want to move that to fabricate able say they are sexually assaulted to get to a better station to do think that perception and is still out there but anybody who works with the victim knows how that is not true nobody would put them spero telling that story so many times just to get a transfer instead of just waiting where thereat. I have been jews camp lejeune and is not that bad to go to the order banks. So i do think overall this program is extremely beneficial but just with one . Story somebody whod taught we in 2006 told me this story but it is illustrative. The first time went to a trial with a client inside the courtroom she did not like the idea to get on the stand. So we came up with the way outside the Court Martial process they could get a deal from the defense it was presented to my client and i thought to myself anybody sitting next to the victim should check to figure out what was in the document by themselves but that is our job and what i did was take the document and i recused herself to explain exactly what it meant. I hope there is never any doubt the victims Legal Counsel to provide a valuable service to new these victims who are very young and do not know the process. Thank you for your time. It is a program that should never go way i look forward to your questions. Afternoon and the special Victims Counsel at Shaw Air Force base in South Carolina i have been in that position since july 2016. Overall we have found expedited transfers to be a lifesaving positive benefit for our clients. We endorse the program. My goal is to share my perspective, how my clients have benefited common and the impact. Speaking from the benefit of my own experience as well as input. I would like to talk about the role in the process those commanders of the process but they play the Important Role we advocate for clients interest which often mean educating and informing commanders to get them to support the claims goals for we hope to explain why our client once the e. T. In the first place and what that would do for the client and have the e. T. Will benefit the vitter force as a whole. The canals for transfer to get physically closer to families or support systems systems, away from the subject in cases where it is a supervisor or in a chain of command, separate themselves from other airman to make gossip or discuss the case if many members of the same unit are vaulter have the opportunity for a fresh start away from the physical location. And overview of the typical case of active duty airman requested a transfer. Verbally then make a report which is where they learn of the option to request teeeighteen as well as services. After we establish the attorneyclient relationship by coordinate to schedule the victim interview and attend the interview with a client. They consider the pros and cons for their life in the case. Starting over in a new location but leaving the base they may like, possible crossexamination in questions that trial and career implications of that decision. If the client proceeds they put in the request in the Online System they can list of 23 bases in justification as to those locations for all clients are requested bases close to their families or other support systems. Justifications focus on wellbeing or starting over or other airman who may know about the Sexual Assault. I have not found theyre trying to get too highly desirable locations such as italy or hawaii. Have had clients transfer to texas or kansas or georgia. Not that those are not great locations. [laughter] wants it is officially requested e. T. And get involved to advocate for approval. In my discussions with commanders in which another client has fully thought through the implications and a real eye on us to educate them on the process and military justice perspective. This indicates the commanders tried to new balance my clients wellbeing and career doing what they believe is the right thing for the client and their force for kuwait knowledge they have a difficult task to balance both needs with a critical importance is for victims recovery and retention. The year man forced to remain in the hospital is not productive and commanders are receptive to that. If approved it goes through the air force Personnel Center in takes between water two months for them to leave the base to the new station. For unusual cases we take the lead role to coordinate to craft solutions. The transfers run concurrently that minimizes any investigative impact they will continue to run the investigation after words. There are minor followup questions needed be set that up with teleconference. I have not seen a negative impact through the military Justice System and all of my clients who are transferred from shaw have traveled back for the article 32 of during trial. Although many benefits and what you to know teeeighteen are rarely a complete panacea. In some cases the e. T. Key and introduce new problems and the victims carefully consider the benefits if they are outweighed by the cost for traditionally they must wait the implications as we discussed today but many airmen have been trained with a job as a limited number of bases that creates a challenge because of a smaller career field many people could be involved in the case or the client may fear if they stay they could be later reassigned back with the subject. Because of these concerns the climate can request to ruth cross train. That could be difficult for career they espaliers training but in my experience echoes from the input that abuse of the e. T. Program is not prevalent for i have not had the experience i have felt like a client is beaming the system. And that the majority of my clients did not know the teeeighteen system exist and told they were briefed when they made the report. My perception is my clients have requested the transfer have done so to be close to family or other support systems i believe these motivations are genuine. Before they put it in their request we discuss how the transition could be more difficult than they think and a great deal of thought and discussion goes into the decision. Finally we acted in good faith and cannot facilitate a request of made fraudulent so to be entered girl working with the commanders and the base legal offices to best serve our clients to assist with their healing and recovery and rehabilitation. So this program is a positive valuable program for our clients. Thank you. Afternoon and the Coast Guard Special Victims Council station in cleveland ohio. I have served as trial counsel and staff judge advocate. I received my initial training and certification in 2015 representing cases and 39 ongoing. Generally i can tell you it is the most personally satisfying work i have done. I remember watching Sexual Assault victims on the stand thinking the government has its lawyers but if anybody needs it is the victim. The most beneficial aspect it curbs that bullying that is customary. The most problematic aspect is the need to fill positions with new judge advocates that should be the victims experts before day experience the competing interest. As it evolves we could improve it but they always mention those programs so far there are five plants with expedited transfers. But with the approval for all of them with that satisfaction in within policy guidelines. From my perspective it is simple if the clients are interested i talk to them for the reason for requesting the transfer. But they feared retaliation or need a distance support network then we collaborate. After confirming the reason the make sure why they want the expedited transfer and where they prefer to go. I a link that with the legal justification i attach that and send it to command. After that they have to prove produced a recommendation that is more comprehensive than the email that i have sent sometimes they call me with questions or specific proposal with a certain job at a certain unit. Theyre already talking with the assignment officer of washington d. C. Which is world transfer orders come from and the command recommendation memo is headed. A couple of times and have called directly to advocate for my clients interest and they have an open. With the expedited transfer my clients for the first time have had to warn them it could happen that fast and it is not a lot of time to prepare. But they always give us 30 days to execute. The have frequent transfers. Cases they were assigned when they made this Sexual Assault report and potentially could have transferred to where they tied up but that is not suspected because the bases are small so the odds are high in the victim would encounter each other at the exchange, the jim, a health clinic, a parking lot. The most populated cost Coast Guard Base is it californian with 24 murdered people. I have been there several times and they dont like my chances. [laughter] and theyre likely to discover they have overlapping functions. The rest of the populations are much smaller. That could prevent interaction but does not stop that accidentally encountered from happening in the first place which could be dramatic and imagine that likelihood to become hyper vigilance instead of focusing on duties. So have they complaining witness would need an airplane ticket to show what some have resisted cooperation i have not had an increase in the past year after the transfer one of the list expired and if they want to continue serving as one of the benefits of the expedited transfer but before that they were all feeling tormented where they were. With the biggest benefit of the program with a continuation. Everything i just described is my own experience the with common observations for the most decide not to seek that expedited transfer to bring as little attention as possible. Into express sadness to leave their units the most common reason from the rumor mill. Somoza dont want to cooperate tend to make that clear regardless of they are in that expedited transfer. That is because it takes too long and it takes about six months. Clients you are already participating and in a couple of cases where they declined prosecution. And that is an opportunity to get back on track. So with that continuation of the expedited transfer program. [inaudible] on the complexity of the case at what point do i get involved . I am there for every interview retrieve the investigators in the prosecutors if my client agrees to meet with defense counsel i am there. So there for as far as the actual trial to go allout to explain to my plans what is going on if there is any meetings between the of prosecution and the client to come up during trial with there are any issues in my jurisdiction we have to object to let them know. I had to do that because the judges is prosecutors were pretty good to make sure the defense counsel or prosecution were falling through on whatever issues were decided pretrial it was decided ahead of time. And also the judges to make sure there were not badgering or harassing the witness. And that is mostly the civilian council. So they would raise that issue . With the pretrial order . Yes, sir. Sometimes those issues come up the trial. Actually if they sit behind the bar we will stand quietly and wait to be in acknowledged so in the army corps room with those objections through the of prosecutor which is problematic. And as far as the navy is concerned with their own version prior to a trial. And will they direct questions to hearer separately from the prosecutor . So if there was the objection with the defense trial to ask a question i would wait for the judge to of knowledge we i would object. The clients have right to be treated with fairness and dignity that is strong there them the case law. Typically is as regional the object that we would object to that but i agree everything they have said about the interactions and we would argue that separately at jury trial. The of maturity of the issues handled in the Pretrial Motion given us some bread opportunity that our rules the year the navy in the marines if we need to object then we have to be an acknowledged by the military judge. It normally pretrial with that evidence in the court room the last couple cases there was of third table set up for the svc of the gallery is so small you have trouble just standing up in their. We are focusing on who we should be hearing from with the commanders and investigators so it is a pleasure to hear from those those of our not in the same chain of command that has been established from when i was in the military as a jag so that independence has been around a long time but do you believe because of your new role . That gives you meaningful involvement . We have had some judges that our supportive some dont know how they feel some have told us out right biddle like guests but the getting is beneficial to get their perspective for those that may not like us to have more respect for the program with that magistrate judge something you have said during the discovery phases in the federal cases that i presided over the discover ability does not necessarily translate so when you fill out on behalf of your clients for expedited transfer are you getting request for those materials . The marine corps policy is they cannot provide confidential in formation. And that leads to additional impeachment. I have not seen that request. I have but it is not in the justification i have never seen a client or they have described all of those facts because i know otherwise. Most of the time spent on the actual allocation that i made the unrestricted report of a Sexual Assault on a certain date and that is the last time we talk about the case the rest of the time is the personal needs of the officer and gas the issues in that letter have come up with that credibility questioned later that is one reason we do scrutinize so closely. My position, and discovery i have no discovery obligations the talk to those clients that are on board everything is negotiable so typically if they ever have been the discovery obligations in the system. Thank you very much for your testimony this question is a little outside of the scope of what you talked about am not sure what we get to hear from you based on your representation could do each tell us the number one thing your clients have said they want out of an investigation that makes them feel they have received justice . Is in presentencing where the offender is pleading guilty what i have heard at least two or three times that victim impact statement felt sanitized and i do think it does tie in what the victim can save their impact in there is the concern we are advising them of it dont want to open that door for example, like mentalhealth baby that has never come up we dont want to ruin the case so the victim doesnt have to do this again there is a lot of consideration but there is also case law that restricts that with sentencing that is what i feel a the worst about that a few of them have said that. I preface this by saying i spend as a great deal of time with my clients the outcome should not affect their sense of justice that does not translate to their life so i spend a lot of time on that but what my clients are generally seeking is they want to know when will the accused to give his side of the story . I handle that early on he or she probably will not. They want to know their side and second aid think they want an apology in with the offender to no longer be wearing a uniform the matter what happens i cannot give them all of those things but that is what they ask for. To piggyback with the justice i always tell them every step in the process is of victory it is reported and charged so that the actual guilty verdict if there is one is the cherry on the top because if youre so focused on the outcome you will be disappointed even if it is guilty they are disappointed because they do not get on the stand majority him there want to hear that apology or two sentence it is never good enough. So with that management from the beginning so focus on the of victory as they come. Also consideration of their time that it does take so much time if they have moved on if they are in the service or not the be they have moved on and have babies but it takes so long that every time they get that phone call from the it is a disruption in their life. To spend the next four hours on the phone or on the trial then it is postponed. Now we have to push off another month. So those are issues for my clients. I akio echo that frustration of time so what do they want it edition in day just want to be heard even in those cases that dont how the outcome that they want and that is frustrating. I always ask my clients that question in the beginning and the in answer is i want him out proposals typically it is a male they dont want to run into him again. So any circumstance to cross paths. In the last three written victims views that i have submitted i specifically asked for a reenlistment code that you give someone with the discharge papers they cannot be listed in the service then they tend to jump on that. This is been very informative we have something in california passed called mercys law which provided something similar but not appointed and you are provided for the complaining witness in the Sexual Assault case and that is somewhat leveling of the playing field. But capt. , you indicated additive is not as prevalent but attorneys acting good faith so with a hypothetical arliss if this does not have been but if the complaining witness tells you it was a fabrication after words, and still wants the transfer and wants to get out because now there is the bubble of problems, under those circumstances what do you do what is your role as Victim Council and your role with the court . It is important to note i have not had this experience i talked to others i have not heard of anyone having this experience that is important to note up front secondarily were all bound by the state bar rules of professional conduct so if we go under your hypothetical that this was a fabrication we cannot help of big dumb facilitate a fried we dont have the duty to refer to anyone but i could not continue to help them facilitate. I would echo that. Depending on the facts with our rules of professional responsibility those point me to not sponsor the aisle i if it is a lot. If they take the stand i would withdraw from the case i have never had a client out right assay this was a fabrication but i have seen of various upgrade with a lot of different perceptions of the truth. So it doesnt hit back from of officer standpoint to uphold regulations i advise the client to limit their liability which means no longer participating in the process. If i believe they are exposing themselves to further legal liability or other misconduct ordeal mission into Law Enforcement than the climate in makes of the decision if they continue to participate or not then that does not matter. I will piggyback as far as what they would do but i have had three clients it turned out their reports were false but we never got to the point where the accused was charged to became very clear they made a false report in they were all civilians so there was nothing they could do to them. So if it is a false report it will be clear. Therefore the individual will continue but if they were military requesting the expedited transfer is the rescue take but i dont think it would have gotten past the investigative stage. With my clients and all the getting is abused in that way. You say sometimes your present during the interview but if the alleged victim says something during that discussion that you perceived to be the prosecutor does not so feels there is no obligation to disclose that the you think it is the you have an obligation to disclose . Because it seems to be one of the problems is your role as a counselor than white you need the prosecutor present . Said he is present when the statement is made does that alleviate the confidentiality . Yes, sir. There is none however i dont have the duty but i will tell you this situation i will have to conversations. One with a prosecutor why we have to turn it over been following the rules but also with my client about why it is in her benefit to have that information turned over. So in the absence of good faith with up prosecutor our research my client to turn that over to the defense myself. If there is a determination for request for expedited transfer denied on the basis it is not credible evidence, is that admissible and the subsequent trial . I dont know. I would treat that as anything as it is innocuous i think that depends on when the request was made and at what point in the investigation if it was already made two days ago there will be credible information that may be with there is a better investigation so it depends on the circumstances but i do think that would have any bearing on the case again because they tried to make things worse than they are my experience. To keep on this particular subject of evidence of prior Sexual Assault is not admissible but evidence of prior false reports will come up under crossexamination with credibility. However this will be weeded out with a Pretrial Motion before he and with the specific instances of the prior report rises to the level of a false reports and in some cases the victim will be crossexamined with the expedited transfer process, of why requested or even before the case that can come up but there are limitations to talk specifically about that. 84 the presentation. I did complete the industry and the commanders problem running into the person all the time which must be terrible. So since it is only be a restricted report have you seen people change it just to take advantage of the expedited transfer process . You probably dont have statistics but the second question is bigger that it does seem terrible but the numbers are pretty low of the percentage i view that as low because it causes a huge disruption but 10 percent in the air force or 13 maybe 29 percent with the navy which is much higher. It seems low given the of problems running into the person all the time. Is that the number of expedited transfer request . The air force was the lowest. Is a percentage of people who have asked. There are so many factors that it is too hard to capture one service is higher than another a think those numbers are about 20 year 30 percent asked so it is pretty close to what you said so that is pretty accurate but going back to the first question i have not see the victim of anecdotally that change that just for the expedited transfer. I have seen a restricted case that got the on written expedited transfer so there are creative ways it did not want to report but i have not seen them yet it goes back to that perception that is frankly an unwarranted that people are and restricting to get to a better location. So you have not seen that i have advised clients to make that choice for their best interest of a climate can unrestricted the case and sign a document for a number of reasons i have seen in regular active Duty Services and also the academy. Why is the tv so much higher five. In my experience most are unrestricted for another reason not just the transfer. I with their higher percentage i think it is low summer married to other Service Members or have jobs where they have a support system already or they dont want another event in their life so they choose tuesday. Maybe they have a support unit they are not experiencing retaliation the good outweighs the bad there could be a reason why. But i have seen it is restricted then go unrestricted and then ask that but then they did not participate in the process and frankly that was the right decision she made for herself. That 10 percent no. My numbers are a little higher so that is about 24 but i would echo that these are complex decisions made by complex humans. For my clients they did not go unrestricted to take advantage of the expedited transfer but they do want justice so they take advantage for that purpose then they want that transfer because Everybody Knows at that point so it as the coast guard but a lot of times a authority moved to the accused before i am even involved because they still will not run into them but they do not need the expedited transferred to accomplish that. Is a tremendous step forward. It sounds like theres a presumption to grant the transfer but as i listen to each of you because you were really good lawyers your approach the case as if you have to approve it should be granted social guy assume that the command does not always approached this as something that the of victim should be presumed to be given the expedited transfer . This is my opinion. My a perception is there is say higher bar and we do have to provide a certain amount of information for the commander to believe they are making a decision that meets the regulations. It depends on the commander and the victim in one of my eight roadblocks there is something going on the victims life that was not communicated so who knows the victim is on the edge on us and on the program but i have had very good but as the commanders are very receptive to grant a the request and it happens fast. If the victim has the requested that the same day has orders. I find commanders to be very receptive they are concerned there would to make sure they have thought through the decision in that there is the handoff to the next commander but i the convey have to walk them through if they have not done that expedited transfer before it is a foreign concept we have to walk them through. My perspective is they dont have a presumption they just want to do the right thing whenever that is. I send them a copy of the policy in that essay called the servicing the go office then the legal office will guide them i dont think they have a bias one way they just want to know what to do. I agree most commanders want to do the right thing. So they may ask those questions and then i hear about it but it will depend on the commander, how much effort is on the front end with the new commander you have to put in more effort but in the second year you already know what you have to do for that commander but most want to do the right thing to take care of their soldier and make sure they are following the rules. For some of you is a major part so is the assignment like this said beneficial for your career advancements . In the army it depends in the installation if it is fulltime or parttime for i do think it should be full time the matter where you are in the army you may not have enough bodies but i think they do not have enough so they end up taking more so we have a lot of clients ask those transfers they want one that is on the grounds we take more cases because we are there. So with any new job they will have questions of it is good for your career per cry never had any of those questions my philosophy is the army said i could do this i will do it i dont have a concern if it is a bad impact the without being asked to have been told dont worry about it. Spitzer but the victims Legal Counsel program anecdotally were also personally screened by a hour judge advocates i have direct reach back to my deputy chief of staff and day check on me pretty often with my personal wellbeing because it does have some stresses that our unusual so i do think the program is in the position that values my service so there are some metrics to make sure we do well. The only with the victims Legal Counsel but those that have been nominated but also screened and then to be certified so there is that a screening process by duping their is the good number of people but there is that three headed beast entering the courtroom but we are getting past that with the School Boards so more in more younger people see as were moving up been hanging in there the old geezers like me. [laughter] then that will continue to produce and we are very lucky as the practice has grown we continue to get better and better and we are volunteering more and more but there isnt that total stigma. Wn party members. This is just under an hour. Statements, the prime minister. Hear, hear. Thank you,