In being asked to reduce this not on the opposite side with President Trump but the first sentence is this is not a book about donald trump. How the right lost its mind is the title. You are taking a stand immediate the with the title but you want to know your background as chevrotain other books, as a conservative who supports trump they would find a of a lot in common but yet some tweets payback why are you doing that . First since everybody has an idea of conservatism and also talking about your own background explain what conservatism means to you. Guest that is an interesting question because that is being redefined on a regular basis but it was about limited government and individual responsibility and respect for the constitution with the inclusive aspirations that was captured by Ronald Reagan. I think i come from a brand that deals with problems as they exist in the real world but a what i think was defeated in the republican primaries. Host that is the clear part of your book but with a title like this how the right lost its mind may be conservatism is a logger word but is it really a Decision Point that has happened or transition of people are abandoning something or is it possible were in the midst of a transition with what people want and if what they have seen or they feel the g. O. P. Has not delivered . Is it possible they have not lost their mind in a position of transition . We are in a position of transition but there is a clear break what happened in 2016 dramatically it was a rejection of the conservative tradition and a the reagan legacy. Many of the things that happened during this campaign the meaning of the book how they lost their mind with the rejection of the intellectual tradition of mainstream conservatism by donald trump and his supporters but also quite frankly the crazy that invaded the party that explosion of those extreme position to tolerate bizarre behavior and a lot of that happened it was a double meaning. Is a done or is it over . No. We will have this over a generation. Host as savior also supporting the president a relationship developed whenever supported scott walker or the president of first but it grew into the nature of supporting him i a have told my listeners we will be disappointed as we are with all politicians. But i think a lot would argue it is about the establishment leadership not delivering. We do love reagan we are children of reagan but yet we have watched government get bigger with the 20 trillion debt and obamacare and that current betrayal. Spending in general the largess of government deliberately made bigger by george w. Bush. Perhaps because were children never again we have not seen that continue some would argue happened last year is the reassertion of the assistance to go back to the conservative idea. Guest maybe there are people who felt betrayed by the republican establishment five minutes ago donald trump was a democrat to treating money to clinton and did he support a Single Payer Health care of a supporter of abortion rights but donald trump never has been an actual conservative he is lacking in principles spent less than five minutes thinking of issues many of his supporters understand maybe he is the vehicle to break the status quo be he does not represent an idea or a well thought out philosophy of government. We do not his relationship would be in one month or two months from now. So people that say we are upset with the establishment i think there were 16 candidates on that stage and everyone had current conservative credentials understanding the issues and the policy get the republicans rejected all of those. It could be the end this is where the a partner about giving advice. But as we establish our positions the rejection of individuals we saw the trend of though wholesale rejection even in Carly Fiorina that i supported at one time was that this was all wholesale rejection seen as the failure in the message to be sent last the rejection of conservatism but more of those who have not moved it properly. That is where we see the next deadline. And we see the world to deal with the world. To the internet not just media but how you interact on all of these formats that trump did very well to talk to people directly and to communicate which i dont think any of the arab people believe in the car they could not translate that. It is about communicators in a new age where reagan didnt have to even deal with anything but talk radio. With that Ecotourism Chamber and this might have to do with all of this. That donald trump represented something than to those in the establishment but if you really want to deal with 70s issues like in terms of communication is a master of twitter but was crude and rude he is is erratic and a fraud. But this is relatively wellknown. And a conservative use to argue that character matters. Those who mock the disabled or with the pow or paying a multimilliondollar fine to students who wanted it education. And we are supposed to think to conservative values. Host that is interesting that dont know. Nobody says this is a return to conservative values if it is an effort to put out that dumpster fire. But as i mentioned there was a panel of women about our age and all of them said no. They were not voting for a husband or were boyfriend it was about getting things in order. That is why resonated the role of the president the nature of this person as an individual and what was required. Clearly they determined it would nimby jeb bush or marco rubio workers christie. And dad implication is the trend of the Republican Party is xenophobia and racism and misogyny. For the average voter who was their job back and money back get their parts kit pocket is that fair to those individuals . And that could be a viewpoint. With what he represents with a xenophobia and misogyny and racism that. Though question his attitude. There was one that somebody bride on camera about assaulting women the believing and his attitudes on the other things if they are racist or sexist and know they are not. That is where people to the left made the terrible mistake. They spent 30 years crying wolf they said john the cave was a racist or Ronald Reagan or mitt romney but then which was clearly empowered by the Trump Campaign by which they continue to give winks and nods. Those on the right had become numb to that. Is that all right part of the conservative movement . That say they need to be excommunicated from the conservative movement because he successfully did that. But because if you made a place for the Conspiracy Theory you could discredit your movement slow to say we draw the line. And to turn a blind eye. We do to the conspiracy theorist people whod traffic. Pretty much of the. He began the demise by a pushing the barack obama per third birther movement. We thought we could roll our eyes. I dont think the conservative is racist. To ask whether or not to be ignored that the cousin the figures day are on our side we will lot called about so after charlottesville a was a real signal and a real moment. We look to our president to provide moral leadership and that was one of those moments he failed but if you follow him during the campaign that should not have been a surprise. Host in the aftermath. And how media can distort with republicans and conservatives so is part of this issue that he decides than that the elevation the reach of the all right for says what msnbc are the New York Times or any other element that has an agenda decides to elevate and promote do not let a the media determine your realities a look to a broader base of information. Is it possible with the power and influence to recognize they have some of the issues. Talk about a conservative and the altright. And this is where we conflate do we have that definition of the altright . Is that but we will do . People love breitbart will have a for ideal of opinions. But it depends on what we will promote. Steve the and then became the top aide to president of the United States so lets be clear. He is for white nationalism. People could disagree with that this is what the debate is. That he then knew people themselves are conflicted. Most people would say that is not breitbart and it is not fair but not everything that they believe. And to denounce these extremist something that would be easy and automatic that is not who we are. I have struggled against this stereotype with the left. We are not like this. Then along comes the altright those that are merging with tiki torchs. But i disagreed i did not call them sons of bitches. But that conservative movement there is no such thing. Does not exist. There are multiple forms of the media for girl where we created the other side of the story. There was a time they determined what was the news. Been somebody came along in this was talk radio. In debt was the other side of the store but something happened and that alternative reality silos. And given those intellectual ghettos for pro and that chamber would that bubble and to be dumb down then you have that propaganda. To distort reality is in a way that were also add a point like post truth europe. Anbar you have a tolerance between propaganda and reality. The arguments are better with the alternative reality. What is coming to President Trump talk about good people in charleston. We know there are people from the city going to be against the of nazis. Others for not with them because of that historical relevance and with the of supremacist. And this is one of the problems and if they choose to promote. If those good people in general but if you are protesting against the statute and to be associated with the plan if you are protesting. With the talk radio in least we have more time and then that becomes the truth. Then someone like myself. So then thought to be judged as a racist how do you bridge that gap the those that agree of those issues. We need to have these conversations in what they believe into they are. In the repudiation of conservative values. I feet we should be the shining city on the hill based on the idea. But they believe it is a geographical location of certain ethnic and racial background. But throughout the Campaign Donald trump had more than one opportunity to be dodged and delayed. This is not a one off. At the heart of the conservative movement that bill left is not right. And then to expel the communist authorities conservatism had to expel buck of virtue of the 60s they and unfortunately had donald trump then defeated the there would have better reckoning with conservatives there should not be a misunderstanding. With this current political environment. Even with these changes with mike pence as choice for Vice President with these other individuals. And that is the initial choices. But are you hardened and to be on the right path on who was where and on what conservatism. With those appointments. And the Supreme Court justice. But by the time people watch this some of those would consider that by humiliation of donald trump. And of qualified and on fed to be president. And then they created that chaos around the. With that 70 yearold male and. And give lit a few minutes. And keep it mind that no fixed principles whatsoever. To manifest did a regular basis. And then to have a dramatic turning point for pro so if he makes that alliance would you still argue this is a conservative moment . They viewed as a conservative in that fashion. And to get things done. Looking at the approval rating. With congress between eight and 10 . But progress are not seeing he is the problem. And decades then what kinds of things to move forward. Is it about the budget . Which americans are read talking about . We have 60 or more who do not think he is levelheaded or fit for office. And those who are Getting Congress so is that america looking at the spectrum the with that political element. But most people want to be successful and we have seen a the markets go up because of the stock market people are anticipating this is another act of congress. This is governing absolutely. Butted is government in you are absolutely correct. And that obamacare dynamic. Six years of campaigning and did that spectrum of why they rejected the system. Itd said indication with that governing philosophy but they said we will get rid of obamacare and the live with the creation with the conservatives that they could not fulfil making promises lot were unrealistic. Then i realized convincing the base that they were stabbed in the back or screwed and they need to rise up. So they created a dynamic of over promising and under delivering. Med it turns out nobody had good answers and the president that could not be bothered lower to sell it. So we ended up when we talked about obamacare being rammed through compared to what the republicans wanted to do without a single hearing or debate there were no speeches but yet somehow we were surprised that failed. But is this desire constantly to enabled of a dysfunction. And then to find a scapegoat. So there is a constant search. When it comes to a president who would not leave anything that would soften your rhetoric . Is there anything that they can do . I have spoken to the president. Did you make judgments is there anything that he could do in his love for it efforts to the horror whether the response to a the hurricane would the stock market and trying to have other people help . I described in the book does not mean mindless opposition. And i want to push him that has been outstanding. And i am not in the colts of personality. I dont think that success has to be on i will not rationalize when reckless and dangerous and betrayal from those conservative values that is the truth of independence and i know you understand this if you win the battle but then you lose the war and must we stand up will conservatives really rationalize . Pretend that certain things are not happening . At least people hearing this program getting the impression all is lost but if he is a person that you describe it is fascinating the praise he has received did houston or in florida now importer rico is a reporter rigo and we no difference was that are working to what some people say to even denigrate kidney enough that nothing can be done. He is not a victim he is a leader. He is actually fit and scanned and whitey and plays the victim. Host but if you want him to succeed but you cannot do that just with groupthink. How does that conversation or accusation help us encourage someone to be a leader and to engage . A lot of people think this is an for were thinking at all. My focus is donald trump is donald trump. He is a billionaire and he is the president but i want to shift the focus, what is he doing to us . The Republican Party, a culture, our discourse . Because whatever his political accomplishments are i think the damage he is doing to those causes i believe in and care about will be longlasting because to be crude or dishonest. I know youll dont like his style. That is an interesting point. They dont need to sacrifice the dignity and principal. This is part of the conversation to recognize going to a passionate political framework to see what we will respond to as a gay woman to note these alternatives thinking of those alternatives. What is misrepresented and then coming to the conclusion that he is not necessarily the man we will very. Were not looking for a boyfriend but the nation is at a point were looking for leadership and you will change the of trajectory when were making political decisions the difference of the nature of what our job has been but if we talk about the country and damage and what congress has accomplished with the people the u. S. Buyer, of paul reichmann, a history of conservatism there is a section in here that is very helpful of what the world has then and what it is now and what matters and this foundation. So what do you say when others are on twitter on a regular basis. Paul reilly and and Mitch Mcconnell . Of damage and change to present that alternative unable to defeat them. Does that speak about the party or lack of leadership . This is an interesting question does he represent continuity of the kahn conservative movement . It was a black swan the event but coming to understanunderstan d it was a preexisting condition obviously he is a symptom of what it was wrong of the Republican Party. All of that in coherence on the national stage. They control the presidency and the house and the senate but yet what is getting done or accomplished . This is where you say they have gotten very good we really want to beat Hillary Clinton those liberal tears we hate the news media but what about the policy and answers . Said turns out to be obeyed question mark the the major legislative accomplishment. Starting from the president down through congress. That congressional leadership that has been very critical is not interested in helping him succeed. Do you agree . Sanders than he likes to play the victim but the comments or fire the fbi director, of variety have been done to himself so the fact he is not succeeding the buck stops here kim you imagine that sitting on his desk is who can i blame . Million critical of paul ryan because in fact, i do think he made a bargain he was working so hard to get the of legislation through he is overlooking a lot of what the president had done. So keep in mind of house did pass the repeal and will pass the tax reform but ultimately at what point does the buck stopped with donald trump . But arent those defenses in the boeing . Go talk to the American People while you do that release your own tax return into those people to stop milking the taxpayer in get out there and Start Talking about the issues. Where is the leadership . Many people see you but the senate is not on another planet. They know what is happening with their leadership and a lot of people have grown past the ideas that there is a genuine fight or a recognition but it seems to be convenient and nothing does get done. That we cannot do anything about obamacare then we can do it till we get to the senate now is the white house. Exactly what the focus will be. But yet there is a convenient stoppage in the segment other choices on the agenda that with congress. So maybe it turns out in retrospect as a reality tv star to have serial problems may be that was not a good idea . Those that are handling of legislation to get it through and to suggest that and decades of knowing the of process to play that on the president exclusively this is in making so much sense. What should he be doing . Is it time for a new leadership . Is it time for the g. O. P. To have new leadership that is interested in legislation and moving forward . Day of president . Congressional leadership. I understand that. 1981 massive tax cuts the reagan tax cuts president of the United States. He did not make excuses. Even though the democrats would control congress. Because they did not spend time on twitter. So he is not helping . But what i am saying is it has become rationalization to say lets talk about our ideas and small government we care about the national debt. Free market through legislation . The conversation the you a higher having is the same conversation i have with the left. He is the conservative movement representing an aging conservative is and that the point you are making . That they have already spent years denigrating and controlling the narrative it is easier to put him in that box. Nobody expects him to be a conservative and that was the point. So this is about the conservative movement who you find in the emergency room. If that is the emergency room doctor get it done. Getting back into our better selves. With the tree dies in the emergency room. I do not bring and the reality tv star or somebody never been a hospital in his life doesnt know what he is doing and making promises he cant keep. And with that determination. He is the triage. And to have faith in that decision and the house and the senate then to bring them back to the president. Singh now the background is interesting and here we are. What excites me about politics than i am talking about triage. To identify as a conservative and that is a bridge to say i cannot be a conservative. So the issue of faith and was it it means and this is personal and a the politics and what we stand for and what we are worried about interestingly this a worry that what we think need to be dealt with. Id people felt comfortable voting for trump because of the idea the balance of what should occur. Nobody expected congress but now that is what is hard because of the passion that people feel about trump verses what can we do legislatively through the conversation to move past the vitriol of the election . Is it possible . It is also a matter of the priorities. And you could have 10 different answers. We have real problems and the conservative movement and i use it on lot those seeing is that i believe it of some of the conservatism we have said the same thing for many, many years and what was typical in the 80s and 70s still need to be applied right now. We havent really changed now as i met with donald trump he does have legitimate grievances but lets face it it should be maximum success for the Republican Party as you pointed out but yet here we are. It is more than just donald trump. So that is why we talk about the whole conservative movements over decades and years. That is what i begin is valuable but only the personal story to lure the Young Democrats to go to be a journalist and that the vietnam war. And americans are going through this same five. In that nation of ideas and they are open. And then the goal of watching the president succeed. As we tried to you define ourselves to save the nation with a unique me and at the helm. What can congress do to bring guests through this . To remain the shining city of the hill . So we have to go back to that concept what is conservative . The balance of competing values it also think lets make sure we do no harm in why the constitution was written the way it was. Soda the rule of law matters in respect for the rule of law it would be great if we could move each other to the same standards with complete moral relativism depending on whose ox is being gored. Some of that diagram between liberals and conservatives with the rule of law to keep the democracy intact. With that hyper polarization and. With those ideas toward principles is about attitude so uh those intelligent voices get the conversation and going. Those not involved in in politics period even the democrats. With that hyper partisanship speaking tour the idea that the constant argument he is clearly a transparent isnt this where america delivers . They have risen above those expectations. Isnt that what the goal should be a working functioning government . Isnt that what the Republican Party . With the reality of the ground early making it easier for kids to get into the schools . Do we have that at the pole framework of government . But they are resilient. I fake we will it is a very exciting time made the your baby not yet disagree with a lot of great stuff with the intellectual history. It is a great conversation. Most recent book is called expose and then not the roots of the american left. You write in your book that if you wrote without knowing its source that could