Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On The Last Campaign 20240622

I knew him in a different context. In the 111th congress, he directed a project for the senate libraries. It was in that context that i got to know him. I will never forget the feeling of relief i had when anthony brought the experiment of the subcommittee and decided the budget to come on a tour. As the librarian, i got to give the tour. Correct me if used some very colorful language, and i walked through the library and explained to him how we were going to turn what had been a private library into a nonprofit library. It was a joy in disbelief for them to see. It was a joy to know they were supportive of what we were doing. I will always be grateful to him for that. I am equally grateful, and thats why he is here today, that he took time to write a book. He was working on this before he started working for the government. Some people go into government and then write a book. But he wrote this before. There are not many people in our country who think deeply about the Library System. Anthony is the only one who writes having seen the inside. That is a very important perspective. Most of us, we see the president ial Library System with bifocals. Some use the lower part of the archives and youre looking at the archives and you have a set of the check dips. Objectives. If you are a director or a student youre looking up at the museum. It is amazing how often what you see in the bottom and top are very different. There are people who try to make sense of that total view and try to bring together the museum and the archives. Anthony is one of them and he has some very important thoughts on what to do. 1 million americans benefit from this system every year. This system can be made much better and i look forward to hearing from him. Im thankful you are here today and i think cspan for coming today as well. Once we get to the question and answer section, please use the microphone over there. Thanks a lot. Welcome anthony. Welcome anthony. Thank you tim, thank you to your staff in the library and the center for the United States and the cold war for having me. I wrote a book about president ial libraries. I know what youre thinking, why did he write a book about president ial libraries . In about an hour, you might be thinking, why did he only write one book about president ial libraries what are president ial libraries . They are legislatively, archives for records in materials. Materials. That is the original intent. They have become self commemorating monuments for of history and costing hundreds of millions of dollars and furthering the Political Goals of political parties. Most people who visit a president ial library dont know that. They see the museum, they see a public event but they dont see the archives and most people who research in the archives dont see the museums. If youre on a tight travel budget, youre not going to spend time going to both. Ive had museum goers tell me, so what if the records arent open in the archives, its a great museum. Ive had researchers say so what if the museums are skewed, i have access to the records. The problem is most researchers are working with records before the president ial records act came into effect with president reagan. I know hoover scholars and roosevelt scholars who were very happy about the president ial library because many of those records are open. They dont know whats going on in the museum and dont pay much attention to it. They can produce their phds in their documents and their documentaries. But if your phd student now looking up the cold war or afghanistan or the first gulf war, then if you want to post your phd study when youre in your late 70s, you might have a chance. No one alive today will see the opening of the barack obama president ial records because it will take over 100 years to open them. That goes for goes for the records of Ronald Reagan, George H Dubya bush, bill clinton and george w bush. Thats not because of legislation or the physical limitations of our universe. Its because policymakers have decided to place more emphasis on commemoration and their version of history then preserving the records. Franklin roosevelt began the Library System because he wanted one single, simple place to preserve and make available his records and materials. He was the worlds, he had the Worlds Largest him collection at the time. He had a worldclass naval ship collection as well. He opened his library in the summer of 1941, and so it is not coincidental that he wanted to build a bomb proof, fireproof building for his papers. Thats not what the new libraries are. They are interactive displays and monuments to president s that are still alive and they dont benefit from Scholarly Research because the records arent open. The Ronald Reagan very opened in 1991 and fewer than 40 of the records are open. Its are open. Its going to take decades and decades. That is what they are. Why i wrote a book about them is that so much of what i read is either celebratory or incomplete or downright inaccurate. I started out wanting to write about, kind of kind of a simple history of president ial libraries. Get it all down, and say what they are. While while i was researching i came across some difficulties. For example, the National Archives stop me from accessing 40 years of their own records about president ial libraries, and for two years they fought me. The first only they werent available then they told me they needed them for daily operations. These are records going back 40 years but they needed them for every day and thats why they werent available. Then they encourage me to file freedom of information act requests and i did. I went through my goldilocks phase and i sent in my first request and it was denied because it was too big. I was i was encouraged to narrow it. I narrowed it and it was denied for being too narrow and there werent enough records requested. Then i stumbled across across something that changed the course of the book and really change the course of my life. I want to read a passage here because i want to get this part right because, first of all, i dont want people to read the book and get the idea that the staff level archivists that are working to preserve and open these records are the problem, because theyre not. They are the are the treasures of the Library System. Theres not a single instance where i wasnt given access to everything a staff level activist could give me access to. It was the higherlevel officials that didnt want to have the dirty laundry aired. Youll read in these pages bout a president of the United States who by load violates the law. For some, some, that might not be surprising, but maybe this president violated the law and tried to build his library on a prime piece of federal property that is prohibited. Whats more surprising is the story had never been recorded. I discovered i discovered the information in fall of 2006 who were researchers in room 2000. I have consulted with them for every day for weeks. At the end of each day i would ask are you sure those are all the records you have about the origins of that library. They would pretend to be exasperated with me asking the question one more time, at least i think they were pretending, and answer yes. It became a bad running joke. Finally when we thought we had exhausted all the records in question that were there at the time, i asked one more question as i was out the door, through the window of a consultation room where they worked, i saw them exchange a look except for those boxes marked Nixon Library at camp pendleton. They didnt end up building there so it wouldnt be any help for you. That answer changed everything and help me discover the story. Richard nixon illegally grabbed 4000 acres from the United States base in camp milton. He tried to build his library on the most spectacular piece of property the federal government owns. Had he he not encountered one small bump in the road and had to resign from office, he would have built the library there. How a president pics where the President Library will be is an interesting process. The Barack Obama Library will be located in chicago. You might imagine finding that information encouraged me to look for other Site Selection information to see what i could find and thats where the trouble began because the National Archives cap denying my request. Finally i said, i have to get some official answers. I made an appointment to interview the official in charge of the system. She told me the reason my requests were being denied for records about the Site Selection process for present president ial libraries is that they played no role in that process and therefore since they played no role, they held no records. That was it. That was the official, on tape answer. That was a friday afternoon in june of 2008. The following monday, i received a fedex from the National Archives. This was in request response to an earlier request. Inside was this memo, and all zoom in for you to see and show you a little closer and its a talking point memo in 1997 given to the archivist of the United States in advance of his first meeting with president clinton to talk about president ial libraries. Then we go to the next page and you can see briefing points for the clinton president ial library. In fact, if you look at the bottom bullet point, now i can play a key role and in assisting the president to make a decision. If you go go to the next page you will see it says now that they have a long history of assisting the president in this process. Now how do we know that they were of it aware of that 11 years earlier. I would like like to give her the benefit of the doubt were not for the fact that she was not the author of that memo. I went to the general counsel of the National Archives and said, this could be exhibit a in my lawsuit or you could give me access to the records of the reagan, bush, and Clinton Library selection process. That weekend weekend i got 500 pages of how the president s decided to build their libraries and where they decided to build them. The reason they didnt want me to see them was the same reason they didnt want me to see and investigate them when i was working in congress. There is a tremendous amount of politics and the tremendous amount of money in the system, and they would like the public just to think these are great places like hyde park new york, independence new misery and its where real americans celebrate history. For the early libraries thats true, but for the more recent libraries there are two problems. One is that president s write their own history and no president is going to admit to problems, mistakes, theyre going to try to spin something. The Reagan Library took a different path. Most places, most president ial libraries have met some controversies with spend or explanations, but the Reagan Library dealt with the biggest scandal by ignoring it and by not having it at all in the museum for over 20 years and that was their way of doing with dealing with it. The other problem is that these records arent available yet. If if a president writes the history of an historian and researchers and students can look at those records, then we can have a public debate. But we cant have that because the records arent available, and because the president s write their own history. Now the Nixon Library began in controversy and it continued in controversy. It was the only library to be operated privately for 17 years. The process is that a president creates a foundation, raises the money, money, filled library according to architectural standards and then hands it over to the government and kind of donates it to the government. Then the government operates that library on behalf of the american people. We spent 1 billion a a decade operating these libraries. There are over a dozen legislative authorities that require the archivist to preserve records, make them available. Theres one theres one mention of museums in the law. Theres over a dozen about the archives but theres just one about the museums. Yet so much focus, energy, energy and effort is placed in commemoration, in these exhibits and in these public exhibits that celebrate president s that the archival, i know tim and i had discussed some things about this and i make a case from the congressional side that if we didnt put the money into the exhibits, we might be able to put them in the archives. From his president ial Library Director position, although he has pointed out and corrected me , the congress wouldnt give more money to the archives, they would just take it away. But ive come to the conclusion that, i started out thinking there might be a way to reform the libraries and to balance out nonpartisan history with access to records, but ive come to the conclusion that the National Archives should get out of the Museum Business. Weve had debates for decades on whether we should support president ial libraries. Every time we we do, in 1955 in 19741978 2006, we talk about the archive. We havent had a National Debate over whether the National Archives should be in the Museum Business and we havent had a congressional havent had a congressional debate about it either. About 25 of the National Archives that it goes to the president ial libraries. They are just under 500 million pages of records in the president ial libraries and just over 11 billion pages in the National Archives. Yet 25 of the budget goes there. But i guess the question is, what does it matter . What does it matter if president ial libraries dont tell the truth about their president s . What what does it matter of a phd student has to find different research. We lose great opportunities to learn from the many mistakes made if we dont open these documents. Now according to these libraries it appears president s no longer make mistakes. We no longer learn from their mistakes. What if the Kennedy Library had addressed their election issues . Has a president not entered an election in less than truthful times . What if the Clinton Library had been more open about personal character and its impact on moral leadership . If that depends on what the definition of is is. They gave us clear skies and healthy ford initiatives that led to the promise that said if you like your Health Care Plan you can keep your Health Care Plan what if the Reagan Library had examines the difficulty of National Principles and security challenges. If the Library Library had taught us about the seriousness of succession crime in an open insist see her sincere process. What if the Johnson Library had been candid about vietnam and honest about how lbj squandered a chance for social change in southeast asia. His quest for greatness he lost the war in vietnam and on poverty. He lost the best chance for social change and the argument argument for social agenda. Ultimately he lost his presidency. He escalated from 16000 advisors when he took the flight to air force one in dallas. We couldve learned a great deal about what vietnam cost us in the country and the world yet no president ial libraries offers those. So iraq, afghanistan and so on until we and the president s we elect lead us. I think it matters. Its actually just over 2 Million People visit the president ial libraries each year and in some states the president ial libraries produce the components for those states schools in teaching them about their president s. Some of those residential libraries that educational component is founded by the president ial foundation. Are you going to give 10 million to a president ial foundation that said the president was wrong or said the president did bad things or broke the law . Youre youre not gonna support that in Educational Programs or exhibits. Just one more thing here, does any of this ultimately matter . Does does the conduct of president s past have any relations to the conduct of the future president s . What they didnt do, what they they ought to have done make any difference in our lives . Does the way they present their history affect art regiment in creating our own future . If the answers is no weve both wasted a lot of time and we the country are wasting 1 billion a decade. We should stop wearing about what president s do. If we do that though, we should stop worrying about president s and how we elect them too. If it matters who was president and what he or she does then it matters and so to the records. I encourage you to visit a president ial library and read about them and tim mentioned an author that wrote a book about president ial temples and there is a lot more coverage of what a president ial library is and what it does and whether it belongs on a college campus. Now 30 years ago, stanford rejected the Reagan Library for having such an institution on a college campus. Now colleges seek and reach out and fight each other to get a president ial library. Is that the best use of a universities time and endowments and scholarship, especially when president ial libraries began with an archival building and a curiosity room to show fdrs gifts that he received in his items. Then they added bigger museums and in the mid to thousands the Reagan Library added a 90000 square foot room, just one room, to house his air force one and its the only air force one that is not in the air force one museum in ohio, and i will say, i hope im not forgetting something, but but tim was the only director that i interviewed who didnt want to get the president s air force one to the library because the focus was on opening the records. In fact if if you dont mind me showing this row quickly, the air force one pavilion houses the air force one and also has president reagans marine one helicopter and it also has this, its in my opinion the most curious area of any president ial library, its an irish pub. I mean that literally. In 1984, the reagans went on a goodwill trip to ireland. That is their ancestral home. They stopped at a pub and they had a pint and mrs. Reagan had a glass and you can go into the museum and see the glass they drank from. When the pub went under, they bought the pub, dismantled it and brought it to the museum where they put it inside air force one. Now you can see it and its behind bar glass. I discuss how the libraries are very different. For example the Reagan Library museum is all about personal characters. These are things he touched, places he was, people he effected. For the younger people in the audience who maybe watch superhero movies or comic books, he was a lifeguard in illinois and saved 70 people from drowning and thats why he saved the war from communism. [laughter] but the Clinton Library has almost nothing about clinton the person. The library being planned in the latter part of the second term of the Clinton Administration and i still cant figure out why they werent focused on character and the exhibit at that time. There is what i call an oldtime museum table which is a table with a glass top. In the balcony balcony in the corner there are three tables and two of them have bill clintons boy scout hat and report card but the rest of the museum is not even about his governorship or his run for congress. Its all about his eight years in the white house. Its all facts, facts, all facts, all facts. Its a very big contrast to the Nixon Library. I encourage you to get involved. I have a list in the book of things we can do to reform the Library System and my favorite, as a former house staffer i know how impossible this would be, but my favorite is how the National Archives opens a museum and average of four years after pres. Leaves office. But it takes 100 years to open the records. We just need to make a small legislative change to prohibiting them to accepting a library until 70 of the records are open. I think if that was the law, people would get together and figure out a way to put the money and the money in the resources and the effort into opening the records as quickly as possible. Like i said, theres an old joke, the reason why Congress Wont reform the libraries is because the u. S. Senate is made up of 100 individuals who each think one day val have a president ial library so its against their better interest [laughter] i think you for your attention and i welcome your questions. If you have a question, could you please use the mic for the benefit of our cspan audience . Im sort of astonished, what are the records in a president ial library . It seems to to me that the records generated by a president in office belong to us. So, are there some that are elsewhere like in the library of congress or somewhere . Thats a great question. Up until 1978 they were considered personal property of the president and they could do with them what they want and what they will. After Franklin Roosevelt started the system, president s from hoover on est. Libraries. In fact, pres. Hoover open. In fact, president hoover open the fourth library by taking his records out of stamford and put them in his library. In fact they were scattered, some were sold by their heirs for signatures and autographs. A lot of records were eaten up by rats and poorly stored i found legislative language in the report. It was very explicit and is said because we will continue this new policy the president record turnout of property the government in the government is administering the records rather than the president. In order to make the person feel comfortable with that they can have consultation rights on the first director and if that directors administering at the time of the tenure period where the person can exert executive privilege on some records but the language is explicit that said this does not give the president or family veto power. The problem is thats what happens and i would argue the veto power has been used mostly so that ostensibly the foundation wasnt comfortable with that person but its because they were not comfortable with the way they might portray the president and whats interesting from my viewpoint on capitol hill the foundation was upset not because he was portraying the president in a bad light but because he was portraying the president in light because he was accurate and nonpartisan and that was not expected. Thank you. Anyone else have any other thoughts . I worked for john kennedy when he was a senator for the last year and a half of his Senate Working on primarily africa and other related issues and in recent years i have been sure to my papers to the Kennedy Library. Many of the papers in the Kennedy Library have been contributed by the president ial papers. They were papers of people who worked in the administration in related fields to the administration both before as in the senate and during the president ial period. Now to my knowledge and this is the worms eye view, those papers are open except where people have specifically said i do not want my papers opened which when you contribute to a library you may say i dont want these open for x number of years but most of those papers are open and many scholars have used them. I have had the pleasure of being in touch with many of the scholars who used the papers who sometimes treat me like a ghost from the box. [laughter] but nonetheless, now you pointed out that its only, i wont say recent that in the last four president s that those papers have been closed. I appreciate your comments both on who gets to use what where and to the extent that although when one contributes those papers to a library they become the property of the library and you sign off. Again you have the right to say i get to use this and they are very open to getting back to your stuff if you need to or at least the Kennedy Library has been. But i would be interested, as i say you have got the birdseye view of many of them and i have got the worms eye view of my boxes at the Kennedy Library and using them. Thank you for your service as a congressional staffer and thank you for donating your papers because one of the things i talk about in the book is as we spend a lot of time focusing on president ial history and the only focus is the best use just focusing on what the president did and there was no previous career because the careers of george h. W. Bush before he was president , John Kennedy Jimmy carter as governor so thank you very much for that. [inaudible] i will tell you a quick and note about the Kennedy Library. The Kennedy Library staff was wonderful. I spent a month over the years and each one of the Kennedy Foundation wasnt eager to quaff great and so they didnt open their records, the history of the library to me. Luckily the original members of the Kennedy Foundation where the Kennedy Family and they donated their papers to the Kennedy Library and they open them. Most of those papers were foundation papers. They were copies of memos so i was able to get access to the records anyway into the diligent help of the Kennedy Library archives. I have a question about the president s declassification. If i understand in the nonpresident ial papers the billions of papers in the archives if the agency that generates the document that gets to decide when its classified, is that right . Yes it does. I will handed hand it over to a greater expert in the field. The question i have is about the president ial libraries so in this case you have tried that individuals, these foundations which are often families at least in the beginning that are connected to the families and in these cases they are the ones who are making the decisions about the classification. Let me make sure this is correct previous are all archivists or members of the National Declassification Center which was formed a few years ago in the National Archives but there is an indirect way the foundation can provide influence which is to withhold the approval of the next director until that person is acceptable politically and so maybe, one of the things that tim naftali did was accelerate the process of getting records out because its a brandnew federal library even though it existed for 17 years as a private lie merry it was raining so its important to get those records out and to continue that process with a strong emphasis on that. That doesnt mean every person necessarily wants to put that first and primary. So the foundations dont have a direct connection to the declassification process or indirect . Correct. Its a pretty tenuous one i think because some of the classifications, some of the declassification is based upon a request from a researcher and president obama issued an executive order a few years ago ordering the review of all classified records at president ial libraries to look towards open. They were able to look at several hundred lien pages of records in a fouryear period which i argue is a great example for what they could do for them classified records at president ial libraries and get them out quickly. About 100 years. Thank you. I just had a couple of questions. You had mentioned a billion dollars over 10 years. Thats 100 million a year. What are we spending that on . We are spending on operation and maintenance of the libraries. The president ial libraries employ archivists and archives technicians but they also employ Museum Technicians and specialists and Public Affairs Specialists Incorporated litigation specialist and education specialists all focused on getting the public or grams and the public message out. And so in 1986 Congress Passed a law that said we have got to get a handle on this. We are getting too big and its costing us too much money so we will have to require an endowment and the endowment is a requirement that the foundation has to give when they donate a president ial library. Now the calculus and is one of the longer calculations in a legislation i have ever read that goes on for over page and says the cost of the acquiring the land the cost of equipping it and getting it setup take that times 20 and you have to than enough to give us that money can you donate to the library. The problem is this the National Archives read that legislation as well this part of building isnt going to be used by the National Archives of donatich count that towards 20 pay this is just an hvac system so that as they been counted. For example it cost the george h. W. Lie labrie to First Library under the endowment or mala 83 million. Thats how much it cost to build it and they endowment the National Archives required to the George Bush Foundation was 4 million. Im very bad at math but i know that its not 24 of 83 million. I mentioned before how president signed legislation to reform president ial libraries that dont include the sales and that legislation into times during the george w. Bush of Congress Passed a law and president bush signed it increasing that to 40 and then to 60 beginning with the barack obama presidency. They didnt know that at the time that the president after him. Which is my followup. I sam the 100 million isnt split the train the libraries each or they werent focused on the latter. What happens is the combination, you think at first may be the ones have start across for staff and they have president ial materials coming from the white house but the Franklin Roosevelt library underwent a major renovation because the records on the new deal and world war ii were in a building that was built in 1941 without central airconditioning and the staff did a great job of trying to maintain it but they got to the point of using storebought dehumidifiers to keep the records secure so that was a total gut and a good worship that was spent by the taxpayers. Did in need of budgets on the archivists use anything for any builder president s . And a library from cool agenda for is either private or state run but not National Archives although some including the Woodrow Wilson presents a library tried to become part of the system, try to get legislation passed to make a it part of the system. I think almost all the local and private president ial libraries want to be because look at the Nixon Library. It was called the richard Nixon Library birthplace and i was not able to continue so thats why they sought out the National Archives person. You made a wonderful presentation, thank you and my question is brothers and science is there any idea that the archive will be available in the cloud . Thats a great question and one of the things that i did on the hill as i planned hearings so i wrote the script and if you watch hearings that is the script. Even the jokes were scripted and so i would write the hearing in the scripts and invite the witnesses and take the topics. It was a very scary situation when i realized that would be my responsibility in Congress Passed a bill a few years ago work wearing the archives to produce a report on alternative models for president ial libraries so i took that report in developed hearings. The National Archives of these are the five ways you can go forward so we wanted to ask them questions. We had a series of hearings. At the time i was also responsible for hearings about the Census Bureau and other topics that we were having hearings. Wed hearings of the National Archives on electronic records and hearings from the National Archives on digital records i email but when it came time to hold a hearing about the president ial libraries and National Archives asked us to cancel it because the foundation asked the National Archives because the foundations dont Want Congress looking into what they do in the political ration ships in the way they use the libraries to prevent National Political party goals. Now i cant say and by the way im going to do a little explaining. The folks in west branch iowa are wonderful people. If you ever get a chance to go to hoover days in august in west branch its great. Its like a ministate fair run by the Hoover Foundation but the Republican Party is not basing their future on what the Herbert Hoover library does. They are basing it on what the Reagan Library does because if you want to become the next nominee you have to make a National Speech and get anointed at the library and you also have to make the cut to be in the president ial primary debates. And so we wanted to ask the questions on why cant we digitize. We want to ask questions on the Kennedy Foundation which is sponsoring the digitization of the records but they are sponsoring a so they are paying for it so maybe they will have a greater influence on what is digitize first and how it gets there. We were never able to answer those questions and if theres anyone in the audience who knows anything even minor about politics thats a separation of powers issue because congress had a legitimate right to find out what the agency is using our taxpayer dollars for and its not incidental that the first hearing was to be held at the Reagan Library. And we were going to be in los angeles for a census field field hearing in a way so wasnt going to cost that much more to stay one more day and be sent out. The first signal was sent out explicit information and this was not a gavel banging best to go tory hearing. This was any process wait fix the system. Need to get input on the presence libraries and the national archivist. I try to schedule the next hearing at smu where the george w. Bush library was being built at the time and that got canceled as well so id love to be able to answer that question. Right now i believe ancestry. Com quotes a per page digitization rate of under 5 cents. I think that is decreased pretty quickly so if you have to do 100 pages its a lot but if you do 100 million its a lot less per page. Hi. I remember a few years ago and pr played a recording of lbj talking to and he was sounding unpresident ial on that phonecall. I see some of you remember that call. I just wondered is that what presence are worried about . I they worried about about the president source of illegal concern when they hold back these documents and keep them classified . Youre getting right to the heart of it. We talked about a presence Library Director naftali and i will mention of one Harry Middleton who for 30 years was the director of the Johnson Library. He was the handpicked director so you would think he would be more inclined to protect the legacy of that president johnson had sealed those tapes and Harry Middleton convinced Lady Bird Johnson to lift that release or let that hold and release them and thats why you heard those tapes by another president ial Library Director. Again it goes back to who was in that position and for whom are they working area it took three years to appoint a director of the Nixon Library ended december they did and the Nixon Foundation made it very clear that it was acceptable and enthusiastically so. So thats why i immediately started saying it raises concerns for me. Esther clerk you mentioned in your book that you feel president obama should not have a president ial library. Why is that . Theres an old old phrase that only nixon can go to china and for those of you in the audience know that nixon had the anticommunist credentials that at the time it democratic president couldnt reach out. I argue that the president has received the most president ial votes in history the first africanamerican president should be the one to say enough and in the book i remind the president of a very important person and made a very important statement in 2009 early in his presidency and he said he probably president obama probably shouldnt build a library and focus on digitizing the records and getting them out or that person was president obama. That was the first time he was asked a question about his residential library. The plans are to raise at least 500 billion to build a president ial library. Now there were four finalists competing for the library and not all the finalists made public their plan. They suggested their offers for what it would be but the libraries that were more modest in their commemorative aspects and are focused on University Integration Community Partnerships working towards policy goals were the ones that lost. But i think gerald ford had said im not going to build a president ial library. People would have said okay. Nothing against present for but he wasnt elected in the positions i think the next president would not have had a problem telling a president ial library and maybe jimmy carter who had no special service before his one term if he said well im going to focus on the Carter Center which is in effect what he did the Carter Library was the longest museum the longest to not be renovated to the Reagan Library library renovates its entire exhibit every five or six years create so president cartons carter said in a going to build a president ial library that if president obama said im not going to do this im going to focus on making good on my rhombus of being the most transparent administration. That transparency has not been borne out in proactive releases of records. It hasnt been borne out in cooperation with foia request. It hasnt been worn out and following the presence memorandum on foia and the attorney generals memorandum on foia encouraging and ordering agencies to cooperate in release practically. That hadnt been borne out. The only chance is to make good on that promise is to say im not going to spend 500 million on a building in a couple of years we might have to hold square dance lessons or Wine Tastings which is other president ial libraries do now to bring people in and boost their visitor should. They should build an archive and focus on getting those records out and think about what 15 million would do them processing records and making them available not just in a way that they are in a box but they are annotated and in the cloud that they are making a difference in those lies. Make no mistake every history book article document that you have ever been moved by or thrilled by comes from records. It doesnt come from somebody saying this is what happened. Its because they went and researched. Every play. Ryan cranston did a recent play about lbj did research at the lbj library. Even in ways you dont necessarily see. Our Great Grandkids might have a shot at seeing the records and think about this. Dont think of it as the president you like him and think about the person that you disagreed with and you want to see what happened and what really led to the decisions to go to iraq. What really led to the debacle of the Affordable Care acts web site. We are not going to know that so maybe if he decided not to continue that focus can you imagine the next president saying okay that died most popular most votes first africanamerican president , he didnt build one. The next president is going to build one . Any other questions . A substantial amount of the budget goes to the president ial library. Im number 315 on the foia list. I might get everything i want by 2020. Now to what extent is that a result of putting that much effort and money and resources into the president ial library . You know i think the term and federal budgets, the number of people you can hire seven member people you hire doing something in a limit the number of people. A brief anecdote when the george w. Bush library and let me go back. The present leads off with dinner at 20th and for five years no records have been opening cant see anything. There was a lot of fanfare and talk from the spokesperson who told the press they were 40 plus waiting to receive those foia request. I didnt quite like the sound of that. We went back and forth and got them to give me the name list and it turned out that the george w. Bush library where there are 70 million pages of records and 80 turned by its electronic data Something Like 200 million emails there are one archivists doing whats called systematic processing and 10 archivists doing foia requests. Looking for a series of records. Im going to look at the Affordable Care act and you get for me with the records as an archivist and you can understand who has clearances and u. S. Concerns for personally identifiable information and relatively can move systematic processing quickly. Foia request to stop what you are doing and you will find this. Maybe the foyer requester is diligent in identifying the records and maybe they are not. Maybe they want to see all the records between Donald Rumsfeld and dorsch w. Bush about iraq. I will take a lot time in people and those people will be delving into records and a series of records that havent been systematically processed or reviewed so it takes an awful long time. The argument i make in the library adopted this more archivists you took but for systematic processing your queue will grow a little bit but then it will decrease because records are open to contact your member of congress and the chairman and Ranking Member of the House Oversight committee. They just had two days worth of hearings on foia last week. The staff there is primed and ready to send some letters and do some action reports. [inaudible] i saw an example and their braver person amanda request for a single electronic record and they got an official response from the george w. Bush library that their record is in the queue and estimate is that it will be processed and produced in approximately 12 years. Thank you for your attention. Thank you very much. [applause] anthonys book is on sale and you can show your appreciation and i appreciate you all coming today. Thank you. [applause] booktv recently visited capitol hill to ask members of congress what they are reading this summer. See p im actually rereading the new jim crow by Michelle Alexander of very important book are all elected officials to read. It really sets out the ramifications and the impacts of the quote were on drugs has relates primarily to africanamerican men and families and how laws that have been passed subsequent to that have really created a new jim crow system because of the barriers of the systemic racial bias about policies. Its a major book, its a book that everyone should read and i am rereading it as a textbook this summer. Up next from the market mitchell house in atlanta sub were wormer reporter and editor at the atlantic journalconstitution looks at civil rights and Race Relations to the lives of students at her world Georgia High School 41 years after the graduation. [inaudible conversations] good evening. I am Sheffield Hale present at the Atlantic History Center in. We have cspan here tonight and a couple of ground rules. Please put your phones on silent mode or turn them off it secondly questions afterwards, please stand up so we can give the boom mic to you for those