Transcripts For CSPAN2 Michael Shnayerson On The Contender 20240622

Biography come entities such a kind as we talk them out of it. But gathered and published his own biography which sold michael can correct me on this 7000 copies. And natalie says that andrew cuomo will not be a president ial contender for a while, if ever who is he as a contender in michaels biography . A boy and did and a young man who crave the approval of his distant, started primarily absent father. And obvious political zion who question such a future even as he strove to succeed in the rough top corrupt world of state politics, and with all the while he, a bedbugish figures bear a joy, albany. A man who contended for another father figures attention, bill clinton, and got it making him the youngest Department Cabinet member ever, which meant heading up a disintegrating department of housing and urban development, which he turned around. A husband to a kennedy and the elf it into that family and was soon drowned out by his own human flaws and the flames of marital scandal. And then according to michael who daily fights his personal demons and comes across as a remote vindictive tough, on staff and yet one of the best politicians around. A husband in a second marriage who has worked hard for and apparently created a happy beloved family. He is a fascinating contender for our every interest in michaels book. As for the conversation i have in my head about the macaulay author series every day, let me express it out loud here as huge thanks to those that macaulay who helped make it possible. In the lead, the Honors College brilliant being and kershner and also a new member of the team sheila Steinbeck Communications and Media Relations manager. Into the college itself where you will find some of the most brilliant and interesting young people in new york. And now i invite you to listen to michael and john talk and also think about questions for the q a. Thank you. [applause] thank you still do. Cilia. Thank you. I think it teed up perfectly. This is really such a great book on a few different levels. It as original reporting original insight and has celia indicated, it has a very deep understanding of human political nature which are sometimes the same and sometimes intertwined and sometimes at odds. So having said that, we dont have any cuban cigars here are the apparently claimed to have spoken for the first on the other day. Not sure thats true, but you know you dont inhale. Lets start at the beginning the very beginning of your book. Your cold open hollywood term is the debate over what you called the Marriage Equality vote, gay marriage voted. Why did you start the book with that story . Sure. Well, you may notice phrase, jonathan writers talk about the money chapter. You want to try to get the first chapter of because if you do the people go by the book. Thats the money chapter. In this case it was so clear to me that that effort on Governor Cuomos part in his first year as governor, spring june of 2011 was his finest hour. And also the one that showed us what a clever political strategist he is. And also may maybe showed a touch of political passion. The governor gets beat up a lot these days, and ive done my share these last weeks i suppose, its fair to say. One of the things thats almost assumed about them is that he has no political passion and that everything is cynical. I think what the first chapter shows, i would like to think what it shows, im not innocent but i would like to think what it shows is that he saw this was the right thing to do, that he had a chance to get Marriage Equality passed in new york state at a time which was very risky. Only a handful of other states have done. California was teetering. The whole thing might go one way or another. President obama was talking to his evolving view of the issue. In the middle of that and treaty sides that hes got the votes, even though no one else thinks he has able to get a bill in the legislature that will, in fact, Marriage Equality in new york state. At how we do that over about a week is really fast and. I would never have gotten the inside track on that without the help of a top adviser in the administration who was essentially a signed qb my mind or, if you will. Theres a whole larger story about the governor didnt really cooperate but he was savvy enough to know that it made sense to have someone who could both lead me where he wanted to go and also who could keep an eye on what i was doing. This fellow whose name is steve colon, one disadvantage is told me this story. It went from going after this lawmaker, sing without guys vulnerability was to sing what is possible interest in passing the bill was how they got this one and get to get this one. He had a spare tire. In the state senate there are 30, i guess that time there were 62 counties, so 62 senators, so you needed like 32 votes, and it was very close to republicans and democrats split, and he knew that if he just had one extra republican that he would never work because the republicans would be under such pressure from his party and for ever after he would be vilified for giving the vote on Marriage Equality. He needed a spare tire, he needed a 33rd vote. He needed to republicans over the line to commit to this. So understanding the way he thought and seeing how he carried that out with both dramatic and to me set up the book. Why did he was so passionate . I know his girlfriend sandra lees brother is gay. Was that it . Usually when this passion theres some kind of a back story. Or is this something that maybe people just dont know about him that when it comes to certain rights issues he really is his fathers oldfashioned passionate thats a great question are there so many answers. One is that he is his fathers son, and the cuomo selectors themselves as progressive. Andrew is much more pragmatic but when he sees an opportunity to be socially progressive you will take it. He did that having just spent the first several months of his term doing a very fiscally conservative things which completely infuriated the democratic part of the side but perhaps help tilt the ship of state back on course. This was way of compensating for those things. Thats one answer. Another answer is that he had national aspiration. This was a National Issue and it was something that as governor he could do to become a national figure. And it did get him a lot of ink. In fact, i am a lot of predictions of being a contender for the presidency in that sense it was smart but ill give you one more answer, which is which i cant prove that open as a storyteller i like it. And that is that when andrew was helping run his fathers Mayoral Campaign in 1977 which mario lost, and the last weeks of the Campaign Come very close between mario and ed koch but koch was in the lead and suddenly overnight placards started appearing on queens boulevard saint vote for cuomo not the homo. Koch was furious of course. The holder bullying of the Democratic Party was furious but they kept dumping put up night after night until finally koch went to mario and they can take persuaded him to take them down. There was bad blood ever since between ed koch and mario cuomo. There are those he believed that one of the guys throwing those posters every night was andrew cuomo. Maybe this was his way of atoning for that. That was a famous star in those days. Was that andrew cuomo . I think its very unlikely that cuomo who was then about 18 or 19 wouldve done this on his own. However i think its quite possible that someone who worked for mario i check out the nod passively from mario was a direct order. Things didnt happen on mayor cuomos campaign without mario knowing about them. He was a micromanager and so is his son. I think its fair to say and you didnt do it on somebody was at the very least probably aware of it. I like that theory. As part of that and really throughout the book you do give credence to comparison between him and lyndon johnson. You really think hes potentially in that league . While were comparing president ghani also compare richard nixon. Why dont you tackle that one, also . I think johnson was more the comparison i had for the first couple of years i was working on the book and nixon was the one dedicated coming to my minder in the end of the process. Know, andrew cuomo a survey not yet proven himself in league with lbj. Its really more to underscore that canyon is each man worked the legislature. For state and then johnson as president cunning as. Thats really an interest greatest strength as a politician. Hes really good at the carrot and stick. I wasnt the first one to make the comparison and i was happy to repeat it. The nixonian side of andrew has i think been showing up more in the last year or so. There were times earlier in his career when one might also made that comparison but it has to do with, and his fathers penchant for secrecy, their mistrust of anyone outside. They have a very tight inner circle. Their tendency to be very suspicious of all journalists and to be very thinskinned and to berate journalists its right things they dont like to the kind of enemies list, if you will, as nixon did spend are you talking andrew are about the cuomos in general . The cuomos in general. You can use either one when youre talking that way i think. Mario was a far more graceful person. He was as an album the great orator. He was a philosopher. And it is have those things. He likes to call himself the operational guy. Thats a phrase that actually came from early on. His father could read the fancy philosopher. And you would be there in the trenches getting the elections one. But as far as nixon comparison, as far as the wariness of other people, the skepticism, i think its true for both. I knew mario better than andrew come and i could see that, that people would make that comparison but i always found mario had a sense of humor. He would, when he would come after you as a reporter it was laced with humor, sometimes aggressive humor nonetheless redeeming humor. Did andrew have that . Im not sure. A couple examples come to mind from the book a couple of borders that doctor of the early days of mario. One says he remember getting a call from arial and various think how could you write this sewer runs to your desk . A very odd thing to say. When i would get that kind of call from him, i found it exhilarating. I dont think i would have come if i had been on the receiving end of the nixon you know no, there probably would not have been much levity spirit as long as were on the subject of comparing what other president s with president , andrew is not president , do you think is legislative skills, if say barack obama had them would have made any difference nationally in the last few years . I would like to think so. One thing i say in the first chapter as i go from the scene setting business with Marriage Equality to collective making the case for why this book, why andrew cuomo why you should read about him is that way tell me what you just said. What wouldve gone through in washington that didnt go through because obama had sort of lbj skills . I guess i dont know. Maybe nobody can say for sure whether obama couldve gotten down into the mosh pit of the senate and smooshed with them and went over republicans one over republicans to the Health Care Plan or whatever. Theres a lot of critics of obama who would say its one of his great flaws. He didnt do that therefore we have terrible partisan gridlock that we have. Im enough of a student of obama to say which bills he might have pushed through if you didnt more like andrew or more like lbj. I think that what i could say in chapter one is that there does seem to be that facility. Andrew hasbun facility and what would it be like if we had an anger as president rather than a president obama who seems to be not only disinclined to that sort of arm twisting but almost to disdain and fear he is above the. Ive heard stories when people gather for social occasions at the white house, he will literally make an appearance for five or 10 minutes. Its called the cuckoo clock because he comes out cuckoo, cuckoo, and goes back to his private quarters. Andrew at the least if he were president would probably know every senators weakness and strength and knowhow to manipulate them. And innocence could be a good president. There are other ways in which i would be a little worried if andrew cuomo was president. We can talk about those. Lets talk about those. What are the qualities, darkness or secrecy, or and arrogance that he sometimes shows that might there are so many examples. The one that is most important is the morrison Commission Last year. I have been working on this book for two and half years and actually going to try to finish the book last june and im very glad i held it open capped the following events because what one of the most important things that happen with this commission. The Ethics Commission that and to convene with his power of governor to try to counter act this seamlessly endless parade of lawmakers being indicted or hauled in for questioning on one ethical breach or another. The dramatic thing that happened is that he said these 25 prosecutors from all over the state from told them to go investigate as they wished and then they started doing so and he said wait a minute. Because theyre certain to look into areas that were retained they were issuing subpoenas to the Democratic Party about certain things issuing subpoenas to companies who do business with himself as the candidate. And, of course, meanwhile, he had shelly silver, now indicted and ahead of republicans saying we hate it does more linda. We want to speak what you think is going to happen . I know spirit farsighted repeatedly think these prosecutors were not going to issue subpoenas . Well, you know, he had formed an awful lot of commissions. He loved forming commissions. Talked to some of these people on these commissions. They are set adrift. Theres a press release at a press conference to start them off. Some wellknown person from private life is put in charge of them and that they tend to just drift off. And often andrew would either just let interest or into the killings in. I think and im not the only one to suggest this but andrew got confused, maybe because he had people around them who were his yes men, who were not telling them come back giving him advice advice. But he seemed to basically feel that this was a Commission Like any other. And he could forget disbanded. And in fact it was a very different kind of commission because there were 25 prosecutors conducting criminal investigations. And yet he did feel that. Later after it was disbanded the famously said, welcome some months before he had said i can the government, which is sort of an interesting statement recalled louis nixon saying if the president does it its not illegal. Illegal. There was a little hubris speaking into. But also he had this pressing on him and he just felt he could do a deal. He could get when you. That budget go around come in return he would get a few kind of ethics rules. He wouldve gone everybody went into lost fight you lost sight of the fact is was a different kind of commission. At any rate i thought it was fascinating to watch that play out, and i felt that it really showed a side of him which would not be particularly reassuring as president. He doesnt like to gladhand or all, god no. We were hearing doing from a New York Times reporter the other night actually this last Campaign Season went to all these events with a stopwatch to see exactly how many seconds andrew cuomo would expose himself to the crowd. It was like eight seconds, 50 seconds, 30 seconds. And he counted them up from event to event. Suite actually could say in his stories, Governor Cuomo coordinates to gladhand or whatnot. And then when the administration called weapons of what he talked about what he said ive got here. Does he not like people . Its kind of hard to be a politician if you basically dont like people. Its very hard to the politician if you dont like people, that is true. In fact, and its one of the mysteries about andrew you know, raising the question why did he get into politics and the first place. We can talk about that. Yeah i talked to one of the top politicians in the state. So ill just to you at all our. Its chuck schumer, gillibrand the two senators, schneiderman, the attorney general the comptroller, and i wrote them down because i was so struck by this. And the mayor. One of them said to me that andrew was the most miss trusted person that he or she had ever met. And, in politics. And this person just couldnt understand why andrew is in the business at all. I put it in the book that way because you will never do so because they all feel the same way. He has had particular battles with i think each of them. I dont know about gillibrand. Shes kind of lowkey about this but he certainly bided heads with the attorney general and very dramatic ways and the comptroller. And its just odd because these are all democrats. This is his party. These people but obvious allies. This is perplexing to me that, on the one hand he gets a strengths and weaknesses of politicians and manipulates them. On the other hand, hed needlessly antagonize his been and makes them not liking. Its kind of hard to do business with other politicians if they dont like you or they think youre uncomfortable in your skin. Skin. Thats true. I guess i could say that those statewide politicians are different in one sense from the legislators, actual votes he needs. But you raise a good point. Its contradictory. Maybe because state politicians are ponds for him and the others are more rifles rivals. Is more comfortable when he do with lesser mortals. Some senator from erie county is so he can kind of quash, our throw a bone to whereas schneiderman, the attorney general could be threatening. And the irony is that he does all this and closes the Moreland Commission only to bring on himself the one person that he actually has no power over. But to go back a step, i think it was schneiderman Preet Bharara is of the u. S. Attorney. Make that budget established by the deadline. Well, i mean, come if we can just pause on schneiderman and it because its sort of fun. It takes us back a little bit. Schneiderman was a state senator, and didnt endorse cuomo in 2002 when andrew was running for his first run for elected office for governor. Imagine that a guy is Homeless Committee felt his father run for office. He spent a cabinet secretary but hes never run for office and then he runs for governor in 2002. They hubris is astonishing anyway schneiderman did not endorse him. Its pretty clear that andrew remembered that and was bitter about it. By the way you can all present and you did not win that race in 2002. But then when he loses and his marriage is also ending and hes on the mat and it looks like he is just dead politically he reaches out to a woman who can be really helpful, and Jennifer Cunningham who has been a lobbyist competence of them, often called the most powerful woman in new york state. At least in the private sector. Shes very close to the unions particularly 1199 the health care workers. If you get the endorsement of 1199, you are well on your way. So she gets it for you. Interestingly Jennifer Cunningham is the exwife of Eric Schneiderman and theres a lot of talk, i found in my reporting, that andrew and jennifer had been more than friends. Wow. So you got to try and go going on, and i by the way, did the way, to think of reporters have to do which make him a good person, a citric of you have an affair with soandso . Jennifer denied it. So i only say it out there, you know, gossip about but may not be true but i think its circuitry there was an emotional connection between them and that he, did i say as sort of an italian man, geyer i say was funded by the lingering presence of Eric Schneiderman as a husband because jennifer was so copacetic with her exhusband that she counseled his Campaign Even as she counseled andrew. Isnt the largest point is a control freak and he doesnt want anybody, even bill de blasio, he was quite close to at least politically in earlier days, anybody who is a potential rival it seems and correct me if im wrong, he is not willing to share power with come to grab as much as the ponca ethic and speaks absolutely. Some people someone who worked for bloomberg said this zero sum. Call him no, you. I think thats true. One step further. And are then runs for governor in 2010 and heres at 1199 is going to endorse him good news. That does is, it also endorsed Eric Schneiderman who is running for attorney general to take andrews choice to andrew is furious. And according to one guy i interviewed who is actually on the record about this, he said he sat in a room as andrew just are rated m. For 45 minutes saying how dare in 11 i did not supports schneiderman . Hes going to ruin everything im going to try to do. And kevin said that not once in those 45 minutes that andrews voice lower from a shout of a lot of stories about him acting this way hud. I want to get into the hud stuff speeded up what youre saying is right. He cannot their rivals. Parenthetically its also true that he of course as attorney general undermined or we might even say put issue in the back of eliot spitzer, the governor. So when andrew becomes governor dean is exactly how powerful and attorney general can be. People forget about the spitzer sex scandal but talus quickly what trouper date. Even fixing a gate to it. Those gates, you did its bit to do anything terribly wrong speak with no. The newspaper headlines suggested that spitzer had done this terrible thing and spying on the Majority Senate a product of legs from cuomos office . It was actually the product of leaks from spitzers office that did call attention to the fact that joe bruno was taking a state plane or helicopter from albany, new york mostly for fun, putting in 10 minutes of this is, didnt look very good. And, in fact, the newspapers did get on that story but it was like a ricochet because almost within 48 hours bruno was saying where did this come from . Look, the Governors Office is leaking this to the press when the press didnt ask for it. This is outrageous, they are spying on me. And i became a ricochet and as attorney general was much more interested in coming. Edifact the report that came out rather than chamberlain of are taking all those flights, which were barely legal he lambasted spitzer for ostensibly unethically licking. What i thought later looking at all these headlines, pronunciations of spitzer, i cant wait a minute, whats wrong with the governor raising questions about the simulator taking the state plane . Who cares . The bottom line is you have but it was brilliant manipulation on andrews part. Plays very rough personally but on some issues we talked about gay marriage. He takes pretty gutsy stance. Is that true of guns as well . Yes, it is true of guns. This was a tragedy at newtown connecticut, all the kids being killed. That was december 2012 i think. Within hours andrew was calling all the other lawmakers trying to get them back from their christmas vacation to pass a law right away. And he didnt succeed in that but pretty soon he passed on what they called the safe act would you did tighten gun safety mechanisms on guns and did some other things which might help. And in the process keyed off at least half of the state. Its a democratic state, so the nra is not terribly strong in new york but theres a lot of gun owners, upstate especially come and they were just livid. I think actually that caught into by surprise. I think he meant to be my guess is in mint to be somewhat politically courageous and spent a little capital. I dont think he realized how angry the blowback would be, and is still. Surprising since the 1994 election when the democrats lost the house large part because of guns, do you think that this would help out his total when he ran for reelection . I think was a combination of things. It was certainly the Moreland Commission. I think moreland looms larger than anything but i think thats for me be more the democratic side where as republicans gun lovers, lets say certainly were very angry at him. I think just the way i felt following this election season life so flush as he ran for governor again, i felt sort of sour by the way he dealt with his rifle. I felt southward by the way he sought the endorsement of the cell working family party. He wanted desperately to win reelection with more than 64 of the vote. Why . Because that was marios margin of victory in his Reelection Campaign in 1986 and everything about that relationship is about andrew both admiring and wanting to outdo his father. Succubus sat on that and in order to do that, because he was slipping a bit thanks to the safe act and other things he needed the endorsement of the working Families Party top of the most Aggressive Party left of the Democratic Party. He hated those guys but he needed them. The whole scenario of his groveling for that endorsement and having them say no you need to be tougher, you need to guarantee is absolutely you help get the Senate Democrats back in the majority of the state senate et cetera. He did it through gritted teeth and got the endorsement and almost immediately began undermining the working Families Party platform is something called the Womens Equality Party which was going to drop varies measures for Womens Health and abortion rights, et cetera. But the clincher was you were supposed, he was endorsed, encouraging people to vote for that party called the wpp, rather than the debutante pee. It was confusing and is like running someone with the same name political trick. In new york theres everything that if youre a little party like the working Families Party must produce 50,000 votes on election we basically go out of business because you dont you think and if you towards people have not done any harm. Are actually endorsing. And then despite that his opponent decided to run against him in the primary. And he went to court to try to get her taken off about because she had to live in new york state as resident for five full years. Spilled let ask you to a question that will open it up. The first is about his record before he went into politics, health, his program for the homeless, extend into Westchester County which engender a lot of resistance. And later his performance at hud when he became secretary and championed what are called enterprise zones empowerment zones. What are the longterm benefits not political but substantive benefits of the work you did for all those years . Does help have any kind of a permanent place . And how about the empowerment zone stickers im glad you raised the point jonathan, because you should get credit. He does certainly in my telling of it. A lot of credit for starting this series of health help centers for the homeless in the mid 80s when the homeless first appeared as a terrible problem. Ironically there were 11,000 people or so on the streets every night event and there are like 50,000 on the streets now but thats not Andrew Cuomos fault. So we did these things. He did extend it to westchester. The whole operation is running today with quite a few centers and a lot of money and actually maria cuomo, one of his sisters is headed. I think he also gets a lot of credit for extend nationally. When he was at hud, he came up with or can i dont know if he came up with but he used the phrase called continuum of care. The id was you dont just give people a day that i think you got to look with at what the problems are, maybe they got a drug addiction, maybe they are alcoholics. Maybe they are depressed or bipolar, whatever it is. Gadgetry to all those things. It cost a lot of money to do that but you can do a more success. He really brought that philosophy to washington, and clinton let him run with it and he gets credit for the. Just one personal question which im sure that people are wondering about. The breakup of his marriage to Kerry Kennedy. How did that affect imposed do you think it contributed in any way to this later Clinical Success that he touched upon in faced real adversity which most successful politicians have at a certain point speak with yes, i think it absolutely did it. Think of the politicians that you admire and many of them did have some nadir and had to come back from it. Whether it george w. Bush, alcoholism or jack kennedy, pt109, whatever it is. Sure this was andrews low moment and do what we thought they would come back from it. It was two things, losing the governorship of the first time and was the marriage double whammy. Frankly, i dont have a lot of sympathy with them because, on the marriage, because reporting, when you go back to 2003 an explosion, tabloid explosion. It all depicted kerry as the villain. She had an extramarital affair. Wide we know this . Because Andrew Cuomos lawyer announced it to the world and what couldve been a one day story became tabloid in furneaux for weeks. My reporting, i did not talk to Kerry Kennedy but i certainly talk to people in our world and i got a very distinct impressions there were two sides to the story of the marriage. And that andrew had been as his father had been, a sort of stern father, an absentee father more to the point, leaving kerry with two and then three daughters and that he was pretty self absorbed in those years. I hasten to add what i heard second or third hand from the kennedy camp is that andrew he came a good father later with those girls and is today. I certainly hope thats true. But he wasnt for a while and ill tell you one little story thats kind of fascinating to me, and then well stop. So the marriage is going off the rails, and its been announced or its about to be announced that kerry had an extramarital affair, and theres a meeting convened. Maria is there, introduced there, and chris cuomo is there and a couple other people who were family advisors are there. The question is what to do about this . Do we say that kerry had an affair or not . And mario says yes, absolutely we do because thats the way the kennedys act. Thats what people are expecting. If we see anything else it will hurt andrew politically. And chris cuomo says but daddy, what about the daughters . They are your granddaughters. And he said, whose side are you on . Well, as a storyteller, i just find that kind of fascinating. I think at any rate it was a tough marriage and one that was probably not a lot of fun for either of them for most of the time. We can we can go on for ever. Talk a lot longer about that, but its open it up for questions. Yes. I always thought that he would run for president at one point, and i was wondering what you see as his considerations and strategy in making those decisions speak with sure. Well, i certainly hope he would run for president when i started in his book, it would give me a bigger book. And a lot of people believed he would. Everything from Time Magazine on down was predicting that andrew cuomo would be the strongest candidate obviously next to or notwithstanding Hillary Clinton the question was always hillary. I decided to call the book the contender think he might run but think if he did when he was still a contender. And i do feel that. A lot can change quickly in politics. By 2018, when he finishes his next term he could be very well positioned to run for president if, lets say, a republican wins in 2016. May be the american get very tired after one party after two terms and if or if they had hillary for a term and she disappointed. And you could do it. He is a contender. Why is he not a contender . For the very simple reason that hillary just insisted on being the front runner, and there was nothing he could do about it. Im sure that its absolutely, hodson and infuriates him hans m. Theres only one person in the country who could stop them from running for president but there she was. Thats my theory. Along the same lines what do you suppose andrew cuomo thinks of de blasio going on meet the press and going out to iowa and nebraska and so on . Right. Well, you know we could talk about andrew cuomo and de blasio for hours. Is a fascinating relationship. Im sure that he feels de blasio has infuriatingly gone way off the reservation, and did so from the beginning, unit come with his rich tax idea for universal prek. The thing though is that andrew could never really squash de blasio because he needed him. He needed him, for instance, for the working Families Party endorsement. He never would have gotten that without mayor de blasio talking this guys into giving it to him. I think he thought when de blasio ran, that he would be just fine. Entry would have the power of the governorship and de blasio, they could work together, as you may know. Andrew had actually given de blasio his first job in politics at hud. It was all going to be fine until de blasio 173 of the vote in the very area that is cuomos stronghold. Cuomo lost most counties in the state last year. Just downstate here. Heres a guy who is really popular among his voters which change the power dynamic and has made a much more evenly balanced, it is made this sort of ongoing spat between them that much more fascinating to watch. So he outfoxed de blasio on Charter Schools with a rally in albany. Yes. And got the better of him. But now and this postdates your book cuomo seems to have alienated most of the teachers in the state of new york over his views on teaching evaluation. There are a number of parents who are also upset. Thats a lot of voters. It is a lot of voters. I mean you know will they stay mad . I think they will. At the risk of offending some of you, i actually rather admire him for trying to do something about the education system, and i think the teachers unions have too much power and that it was good to try to introduce some balance. But he did some with a strictness that in the end just left him marooned politically. Just to focus on this for a second or its one thing to say that student improvement on tests should be one factor in teaching evaluation. But to say how much it should count. I think its up to 50 . Somehow he is an educated and knows it should count 50 instead of saying im interested in the principle that should count for something, one of your kids actually learn something should be connected in a measurable way enacted to your promotion. But why does he think, or is it arrogance or what would lead him to believe that they would no how much it should count which is a very different question, whether it should count speak with thats a good question jonathan. Im not sure except to say that i think he overreached and editing this paid the penalty. There is no way to look back on these months and say that andrew cuomo was point ever the clever game that only now becomes clear. It was a mistake. [inaudible] hold on one sec. Beautiful downtown cspan. This is a very interesting and complex person and complex discussion, and i appreciate it. I am a member of the u. S. Team myself which doesnt i disclose what might everything. I dont. But i voted for andrew cuomo. I believe the union did not. But on the education part the part you bring up about the evaluations and so want i dont appreciate the things hes tried to do for raising minimum wage, gay rights, just because i feel for human rights, and other things. Antifracking i agree with. I totally disagree with them on the education policy, and a lot of it has to do with this evaluation business. And so here i was protesting against his education policy while having voted for him for governor. It is just that complex. What if he ran for reelection but would you stem . No, i would not stay home. I have always voted my life from the day i turned 18 but i dont know. It would depend who would be running and so on. I am inclined not to doubt but that is not a rigid point but i feel very deeply on the teaching evaluation. I worked with special education teachers as well as elementary, high school, junior high every part of it both teaching and counseling. And to come up with that kind of number i think is outrageous really. You are working with children and i work in areas of the south bronx and harlem, thats most of my career, and not that children cant learn everywhere, but they come with a lot of issues, Poverty Issues is one of the big things, and special education we could spend all my a teacher if i wish in a 50 on student test to me is absurdity and unfair. It seems arbitrary and certainly a teacher loses her job because 50 rather than 40 , i mean, its crazy. But i would just say theres a lot going on with the education measures and one of them was cannottonot let teachers have tenure and to think after four years rather than three. That doesnt seem to me unreasonable. We could talk about this all night, but theres a balance. I agree with you. I am mostly on his side you know the idea like trying to quash Charter Schools that have 90 Graduation Rates instead of you know, 50 graduation. Youve got to side with the governor on that but its almost like he doesnt know when to stop. I think thats true. And theres a quality to his leadership that is both pragmatic and also selfdestructive almost. Yeah, relentless. I know that his advisers work almost above all else to keep him from speaking because he would get in trouble. Evil savings and that goes back, the same as the quote come hes running for governor and its 2002, 9 11 is in the review mirror, and he says to a bunch of journalists while hes on a bus, gosh, you know giuliani, he did a real job of leadership after 9 11. Pataki just held his cooker and a journalist all go that is a really snide meanspirited comment. They race often father stories at its outset the next and that basically destroyed his campaign. Hes been hunted by that comment ever since and determined to avoid saying anything like that. The question is why does he say things like this . Theres a kind of swagger, you know, a sort of petulance daddies proud to. Its not winning. We talked about some of his daddy issues. Do you think that is a daddy issues will change now that mario cuomo has dyed . Well, i actually make that the last sentence of the book. I was working on this book frantically over the christmas holiday, and i had like another eight days. And just as i was getting ready to turn it in the very last day, mario died it was like a sign from heaven. You know poor fellow but he did and it is going to die, it was time because i could get that in. I could write that last page but as a storyteller i felt that are brought the story full circle because this is a fatherson story. So now that mario has dyed i would have to believe that andrew does feel a certain sense of liberation died. He gave probably the best speech of his career was the eulogy he gave for his father. Very moving, terrific. Terrific. I mean it gets overlooked that he may not be his father but hes a pretty good writer in a sort of direct way. Another thing that gets overlooked is his actually can be pretty funny and private. Its just one of those things that gets overlooked. I think, i think that he can throw off that sense of competition with his father. And the fact is rationally, he has done more in his first term whatever paltry fine, hes done more in his first term and mario did in three terms. We love mario. We love the orator. We remember the Democratic National Convention Speech in 1984, but the fact is you look at waikiki molly was not a great governor, not a great manager, he didnt accomplish a lot. To joke about mario three terms is he passes passed the seat belt law and that the its hard to find wanted it. Its not that bad but its not that great. Andrew industry has done a lot. I think he has every right to throw off that sense of daddy looking over his shoulder, and adobe does. [inaudible] and i hope he does. Do you have any observations about june 15 the governors dissipation or lack of participation, what its going to be on the major issues that are coming up on june 15 based on your knowledge of him . In other words if i understood you june 15 is the end of the term . Much legislation in new york. I can happily docket out by saying doc that the book close on january when i finish those last changes so i frankly dont know. Lets have one more. Lets not end on and i dont know. [laughter] spirit if nobody else somebody i dont know if this is working. Speak loudly. Based on what i produce it and it sounds like your knowledge of him is very extensive, do you see him being truly able to run for president and had a good chance of winning if he does . I thought about that a lot over the last three years. First, theres the level of issues, and whether hes running into trouble like things like teachers, education that will hinder him from running nationally. Theres also the personality issue. I find and are sort of a compelling and charismatic figure in kind of a dark way. But im not sure that americans in iowa are going to feel the same. Somehow, for reasons that elude me, he still is kind of a queens accent that whats bad about . Why doesnt he just get rid of that . He does have that kind of almost like a schoolboy queens swagger, along with the accent, and unwillingness it seemed to smile very much. And politicians on the National Stage needed a lot of smog and the need to enjoy comic about your point, they need to enjoy talking to people. I dont think he can face of it. I think that andrew is someone very uncomfortable, the retail aspect of politics ron campaigning. But he loves his the power of the office to do the things they need to be done to make the state run better, and so of course running for president you need to do an awful lot of the retail stuff first. I think its unlikely, frankly that he can do it and when it. Very interesting conclusion combination of a will to power and some limitations that as you indicate will likely hamper him. Thank you so much. Thank you. [applause]. Guest shes an early googler, had about 20 employees and left when they had a thousand, and she went and joined an extremely troubled company as basically a wonder woman, superstar ceo and i just wanted to know how was she doing trying to turn around this company and, by the way, how did she become so rich and powerful and famous in the fist place. Host well, what was her path to yahoo . Guest so Marissa Mayer is from wisconsin, and she went off to school at stanford. She was going to be a doctor and she decided that was just too many memorization. It wasnt that exciting for her. Shed gone to this summer camp and shed learned at this science summer camp that what was really important in life wasnt necessarily, you know, the things you sort of know but more how you think about things and determine what you should know. And so she decided medicine wasnt for her. She got interested in programming, and specifically a field called human computer interaction at stanford. And while she was at stanford, she then went on to get a graduate degree, and she had a rapport as a student teacher. So she was an excellent student. Very good at this program in particular. And when she left, she had all sorts of options. She could have are gone to Carnegie Mellon to be a professor of some sort, or she could have gone to a Consulting Firm and become sort of on the fast track to safe, you know, highpaying professional field or she had one of her advisers say wheent why dont you look at this funny be Company Called google. And she almost deleted the email from google inviting her to apply for an internship, but she didnt. And so instead she went in, and a real lesson to learn from marisa Marissa Mayer is she went in and was just overwhelmed how intelligent and bright the people at google were, and she was sort of felt like they were much smarter than her which may or may not be true but she felt like they were. She said this will be a real challenge, a scary opportunity and she went for it. From there she entered into google. And be another really