The Texas Public Policy Foundation and serves as their chief National Initiatives officer. And here to talk about issues of immigration and Border Security, thank you for your time. Guest thank you for having me. And what approach does it take with integration related matters . Guest the Texas Public Policy Foundation is americas largest right of center state based policy think tank. We have about 100 employees mostly in texas but people all over the country including in washington, d. C. Do a lot of rea lot of papers. We testify before the texas legislatur the congress in washington, d. C. And insofar as immigration we are concerned about Border Security. We think it is a National Security threat and threat and health of texasness. The bord is not under control. Host how is it primarily funded . Guest we are funded through private contributions. Our■ bylaws prohibit any government funding which is unusual. A lot of think tanks take Government Funds but we have literally thousands and thousands of people mostly in texas who fund our operations. Host when it comes to texas and its approach to immigration, a lot of viewers would probably know operation lone star. Could you describe what it is and what led to its implementation . Guest operation lone star is an initiative of the governor of texas and the texas legislature, especially Lieutenant Governor dan patrick and leaders. For the cost of about 2 billion a year it places Additional Resources on the bother, department of■i■■ Public Safety texas state troopers as well as the Texas National guard. I know a bit about the National Guard. I served in the National Guard in california for some 20 years and retired as the deputy j1. The other thing they are doing is erecting some additional barrier along the border language private property where the Property Owners are generally favorable to installing additional barriers to entry trying to encourage people to go over of entry rather than in between the ports of entry. So the effort was rd a number of years ago as the border began to as control on the border began to what you see is a lot of cooperation with Border Patrol and immigrations and Customs Enforcement. Essentially augmen Border Security in texas. Lastly, i would say it has been working because what you are seeing now is especially as Governor Abbott has ramped up enforcement you are seeing the traffic controlled by the mexican drug and human cartels shifting to the west it states like california especially where the governor has a very different attitude toward illegal immigration. Host would it be fair to say operation len star was a direct response to criticisms of President Bidens handling of immigration matters . Guest not necessarily to the crisps but to the reality on the ground. You may recall a couple of years ago i was at this Border Crossing in delroy where there were some 20,000 haitian nationals under a bridge for shelter from the hot sun. With expectation if they got into america illegally there was very little chance they would ever be deported. Host tupreme court rolled back portions of it if i i understand. What portions did they do . Guest are you talking about texass efforts to control the border . Host yes. Guest theres a number of legal fronts where texas has been contending with the federal government. One in particular you are project probably referring to the ability of Border Control to cut barrier wire laid by the National Guard as part of operation lone star on the border. What the Supreme Court ruled was that the Border Patrol could the wire. They didnt rule that texas couldnt put down more wire. Interestingly enough, since that ruling has been made about a month, im not aware of any reports where Border Patrol has removed the wire even though they are allowed to do it. Theres another lieutenant with the buoy system in the rio grande river. The Biden Administration didnt assert their right to supremacy with regard to immigration and the did is made a claim under environmental law and under the rivers acthat this was and i will heal impediment to commercial traffic, which of course is ridiculous because there hasnt going back 1078100 years on that stretch of river. You can texas has had to pull ein. But that is still in litigation. Then senate bill 4, this was the bill that authorizes texas Law Enforcement if they have reasonable suspicion, probable cause to believe someone has come across the border illegally, to arrest that individual and bring them to a port of entry whereupon they have the choice, you can you ca arrested for being in texas illegally. That is still being litigated. We expect it to end up going up it the Supreme Court and we believe that it is substantially different than arizona vus which decided in 2012 and we believe texas has a pretty good chance to prevail. Host it was in the lower courts that■ the judge said ifllowed to proceed sp4 could open the door of each passing its own version of many segregation and it with force the federal gernment to navigate a patch work of inconsistent regulatio■ns threatening the notion that the United States must regulate immigration with one voice. What did you think of that opinion . Guwrongly decided and i think w will see it quickly reversed at the fifth Circuit Court of appeals. The reason being is that texas is not enforcing Immigration Law. They are just going back to long standing powers that the states had the 2012 ruling in arizona v u. S. They are not enforcing immigration. When you see somody crossing the border between ports of entry which is a criminal act what texas is doing is 10 empowering its Law Enforcement to secure that individual, to bring them to an official port of entry and give the individual a choice. Income walk back across the border from which at the came or be arrested and tried in the texas criminal system for a crime. So, in neither case did you have texas enforcing Immigration Law at all. Because if the iividual walks back across the border that is not deportation. That is the individual deciding they would rather not be arrested. Host if you want to ask questions you can do so on the lines. Democrats is 2027488000, republicans are 2027488001 and independents are 2027488002. If you are a texas resident and want to give perspective on what is going on not only in your state but washington with immigration and Border Security call 2027488003. Our conversation is with chuck devore. I dont know if you had a chance to listen but during the state of the union last week issues of immigration and Border Security came up. I want to play a little bit of what the president has to say and response. Those watching shved of playing politics join me in telling the congress to pass it. Book do it together but that is apparently what they will not do. I will not demonize immigrants saying there are poisoning the blood of our country. I will families. I will not ban people because of their faith unlike my predecessor my first day i introduced a bill to fix immigration. A pathway to citizen for dreamers and so much more. Unlike my predecessor, i know who we are as americans. We are the only nation with a heart and soul that draws from old and new. Host that is President Biden from the state of the union drawing crasses with former contrasts. Guest i was quite disappointed with it. The lack of security on the borders is the number one issue among American People and that makes sense. We have had some 200 people on the terror watch list come across. There was evidence presented yesterday before a Senate Committee that some of the criminal drug and Human Trafficking cartels are working wilements of isis to get some individuals across our border. That is pretty significant news given that less than 30 People Killed almost 3,000 americans on 9 11. He spent about five minutes on the number one issue in the country, that was about 40 machines into his speech that lasted about an hour and six minute he didnt really address any of the significant issues at all. In fact some of the things he said were down right inconsistent or as we might say in washington, d. C. , he was doing some prevarication. Claiming trump had a ban on people coming in based on their religion. That is false. What trump did is he had higher barriers of entry for individuals coming in from nations known to be terror hot spots. Had nothing to do with religion. If tt the case why was new york on the list . Here is the issue. The issue is t joe biden on the very first day of his presidency reversed Donald Trumps executive orders regarding securing the border. What you saw in terms of illegal immigration was the very day of the election out of the anticipation that biden would follow through on his promises to open up the border, you began it see this very large ramp up of illegal immigration that has continued unabated since then. No law has been changed, all the change was the administrations executive orders and the will to enforce our border. This problem is entirely the making of President Joe Biden and his administration. Host our first call is from a texan, amin in temple, texas, democrat lane. You are on with chuck devore. Caller thank you. Sir, im a little confused. When trump became president he was supposed to build there big old wall it keep everybody out and hasnt been completed yet. But a month ago inaudible. You are doing and it does not make sense because we have been having people come here ever since america separated from mexico. So, this is what i say. Host that is amin from texas. Guest amin referenced the wall. Of course there was a huge amount of legal activity aimed at preventing President Trump from erecting that wall. It slowed down progress to be sure. As a retired u. S. Army officer, when you erect any sort of barrier at all it does assist the additional labor that you have in maintaining security. That is why the rich and famous have walls around their houses and for example during the president s state of the union they erected fencing around the capitol because walls doity of Border Control and immigration and kufrls enforcement and Texas Department of safety troopers and National Guard. It enhances their ability to secure the border. So i would arc we need to complete the barrier system. You ironically see even President Biden reluctantly beginning to complete some of the of the trump border wall. If the wall is so bad why is the Biden Administration continuing work on the same wall. Host there is dave republican from i were agree with the prefer caller. I have seen in texas we are suffering from this from people from all over the world and many of them are very sick individuals, mentally speaking, and some criminally involved. We are just supposed happened because of trump . When trump was president we hardly had anybody crossing the bourded a now we have an invasion. We trump was president we are paying less than 2 a gallon of goon and now we are paying were more. We texans are experiencing the pain. Seems like our gas is cheaper than everybody elses. Everything is worse under this Biden Administration. The friend called and told me New Hampshire supposedly supposed to be conservative but is getting corrupt. They are trying to prevent people from having prayer meetings in their home. Host mr. Devore if youi8 want focus on the immigration matters. Guest some of the concerns i believe dave expressed are correct. Look at e su chinese nationals of military age coming across the border. This was also mentioned i believe yesterday in the testimony of the various intelligence chiefs to the u. S. Senate. I think they are coming back today to the house of representatives. 14 months there were not much in e way of chinese immigrants coming across and they were generally older family units. Then as if a light switch turned on in early 2023, you see a significant ramp up of the number of chinese Illegal Immigrants crossing the border and you see their average age narrowed down to being that of military aged individuals, primarily males. Maybe they are coming across because the unemployment situation in the peoples republican of china is said to be pretty bad for young adults. Or maybe some of those individuals are coming here for negative reasons, for reasons that could be hostile to u. S. National security interests. The point is we dont really know and we dont really know because President Joe Biden and his administration have lost operational control of the border. And in the past we Border Patrol or immigrations and Customs Enforcement would have the opportunity to interview people coming two the country, today those interviews rarelyls withi the department of Homeland Security are too busy babysitting these large numbers of people coming aoss our border and moving them quickly into the interior of the United States. This is a National Security im very fearful we will pay the penalty as a nation potentially before the end of joe bidens administration. Host a caller used the word invasion. What goes through your mind when you hear it characterized that way . Guest invasion can mean a few different things. Some people who want to define in narrowly by the way the invasion clause is a portion of the constitution that gives states the power to defend themselves in the event the federal government is slow to react, something that was a big concern more than 200 years ago when communications were much slower. But when you lo invasion and you say are the mexican drug and Human Trafficking cartels a hostile forc yes. Are at the well armed . Yes. Have they completely corrupted the government of mexico . Yes. In some cases are they acting in the place of the government of mocks . Yes. Do they have placeal control of the on border. Yes. Are they moving people across ourder who might mean us ill intent . We believe they are. I mentioned the tens of thousands of chinese nationals. What about the report yesterday of the cartels cooperating with elements of isis. I so, at least you have a violent criminal actors comes across and probably state actors and terror groups coming across the border. So, if that is not an invasion in the sense of the word that the constitution means it, 10 i dont know what is. Host this is from jonathan in iowa, independt line. Caller good morning, pedro. Host you are on the air. Caller i just will a question. I was wondering, i was going through the f. B. I. Statistics and realized that a lot of the fentanyl coming from those trucks are [inaudible]. Isnt that crazy. One more thing. I believe th if we really want to have an up segregation system that works i think we need to open the border [inaudible] because are able to process more people and have a more organized view of the world. Host mr. Devore, is there a place to improve the Current System it alleviate what is going on on the legal side. Guest i think the number one thing is President Biden to readopt the executive orders put in place by President Trump. The fact that he lifted the executive orders and the border immediately spiraled out of control indicates that it would be readily within his ability to regain control of the border if he had the political had to do so. Allowing this surge at the border, this border crisis, wasg through on one of his promises he made during his president ial campaign in 2020 when he said that he was going to open up the border and by golly he opened up the border. Host theres a viewer who texted us i want you to respond to the first part because he asked you to explain what you mean when you say controlling the border. Guest controlling t that is a great question we have legal ports of entry that stretch from the west coast all the way down to the gulf coast. And when you want to come into the country and you want to come across the land border you are supposed to do t a legal port of entry. As you do, you are generally interviewed by an immigrations and Customs Enforcement di in america, do you have the permission to come in. If you are claiming asylum, what is the nature and they make a determination to let you in our not. If you come in between the ports of entry that is the responsibility of the board you come across and under up absorbing Border Patrol resources so significantly because of family units coming across, unaccompanied children, the mexican drug car tells are a very sophisticatedriminal Business Organization and they will surge individuals at the border especially unaccompanied minors many who are recycled, Young Children used by the cartels as a way to absorb resources of the Border Patrol. When they surge those what is often happening 10 or 20 miles away drug mules are coming across withwho dont want to be seen by the Border Patrol or immigrations and Customs Enforcement. These are the i would have we call got aways. They are the numbers of individuals numbering now in the millions that we only can guess at their intent for coming into the country. Of course, many of the got aways we find out later are individuals with extensive criminal records with connections to terrorist groups. We do not have operational control of the border. The mexica drug and Human Trafficking car technicals have operational control of our southern border. Host another text from a vwer renee in georgia saying my grandparents came through ellis island. Why cant we build a Processing Center like that on the southern border and why doesnt texas . Guest the big distinction between ellis island then and the issue today■r are a few different things. First of all, it is much easier for the worlds masses to come to for example, if you take the World Population what is it, around 8 billion people and you say what is 1 of eight billion. It is about 80 million. So if 1 of the world wanted to america quickly overwhelmed with individuals. Back in the ellis island era it took a lot of time. You had a transatlantic voyage and will to pay a certain amount of money and you would be examined for Communicable Diseases say tuberculosis sthepbld you back. My recently deceased fatherinlaw, his parents came through ellis island from sicily and so im very much well aware of the history of ellis island. The challenge now is america already has an historically high level of individuals not born here and unlike with ellis island some 110 years ago, most of those individuals are here illegally. As a result, we dont know were about them. Many of the individuals that come across the border today are given a notice to report that is very different than a notice to appear. A notice to appear says you have to show up before an immigration judge at a certain time■n and place in the future. A notice to report simply means when you get settled in the u. S. Wherever you decide to go as an illegal immigrant please let us know where you landed whether chicago, new york, rochester. And as we are seeing, a small fraction of taste Illegal Immigrants ever bother to check in with immigration authoritiesd up in the country. Host lets here from beth in new york democrats line for chuck devore. Caller good morning. I just want to again press your guest about Border Security and what that really means. When our former president was in office, he didnt shut the border down. Covid shut the border down. People werent moving because nobody was moving across the border. It doesnt hold up to skraout if i. The places you say people can walk across have never been secure. It was the circumstances that have changed. Thank you. Host mr. Devore. Guest i would disagree1q with that statement. If you look at the year to year illegal immigration numbers under the Trump Administration you would see year one and two they were low. There was a spike in with it 2019 that started to come down before covid as the Trump Administration worked to figure out how to address it. That is how at the came up with the remain in mexico policy and decided to do more rapid d. F. A. Testing to ensure that Young Children who were being used by the cartels to build fake family units were tested and frankly many times we found out that the Young Children were not related it the young men that were bringing them across. In fact, it is inimical that a single male would be with a young child. Thats not the way things operate in the world to our south. As these rapid d. N. A. Tests showed that was the case where the children were being used as tools to construct a fake family unit. So, as the Trump Administration adjusted to these you saw the border come under control as well as the lawsuits were cleared off and the pace of the construction of the board barrier began to pick up. And, yes, as covid hit those numbers went even lower. But it is very important to understand that as 2020 moved on and career began it move toward the election, you saw that immigration remained low through election day. Then,anticipation of a sea change in attitude about illegal immigration, you started to see the numbers pop up■u even befor any policies changed in the last two months of the Trump Administration. As biden took over and reversed all the orders the floodgates opened. So i think the record itself bee lays the myth that somehow belies that the border under trump is the same as biden. The numbers do not lie as were as i think this present administration with wish this is from oklahoma on the republican line, tommy. Caller im a first time caller. I would like to ask mr. Devore if hes familiar with the immunization of the immigrants coming across the border. Guest that is a good question. It is a Serious Public Health risk. Generally speaking, the Illegal Immigrants are not immunized for common diseases including highly communicable diseased like measles and polio. The interesting thing is that under this separation those individuals are generally not checked out for their health. They are given a bit of participate work and they are allowed to fly on public commercial transportation with that paperwork for instance a notice to and not even a photo i. D. We the citizen and naturalized citizens or legal residents of america we have to show government issued federal i. D. Like a drivers license or passport. Thats not the case with these individuals. So you may have individuals who have active cases of it. B. , tuberculosis, flying on our public airlines going to new yo want to go and the interesting thing back to the caller that mentioned ellis island during the ellis island system those individuals would have been denied entry and sent back to their face of origin. Host House Republicans were largely criticized by deposition for turning back tkpwpbgs the Senate Partisan immigration bill warmth did youity of that move . Guest i agreed with that. So did the Texas Public Policy Foundation. We were not impressed with the bill after researching it extension simple and one of my colleagues is rodney scott the last chief of the Border Patrol under President Trump and he was fired by President Biden for daring it tell the truth about the border. You you look at ther bill that failed i think the number one thing people have to ocus on is the fact that this making of President Joe Biden and his policies. On day one he reversed all of President Trumps executive order. You do not need statutory changes to gain control of the border. What you need is a change in policy. ■ you need the will to enforce existing law to secure our southern border. And to take care of what i believe i dire National Security threat. I think it is only a matter of time before americans are injured and killed by the fact that President Joe Biden has lost control of our southern border and created a grave National Security threat to this nation. Host s specific about the senate bill that you had perform issues with or your organization will issues with . Guest i will give one example. There was funding supposedly authorization for 1500 additional Border Patrol agents. Because of the Border Patrol i guess it is the cbd1 app, this app that immigrants, wouldbe immigrants put on their phone that allows them rapid entry into the u. S. Just the people processing osel is 500 Border Patrol agents just to process those individuals that are coming into our country as a result of Biden Administration policy. So when you look at the additional individuals that areu have to understand what is it they are going to be doing. Are they going to been forcing Border Security or increasing the pace of processing of Illegal Immigrants into our nation, increasing the pace rather than discourage i immigration. The other issue was the trigger in the bill. You had this trigger that supposedly resulted in increased enforcement after a super number of people crossed into the nation. That threshold is higher than the typical weekly crossings we often see today. So it did not at all solve the border crisis. It merely made legal the p■1sent state of chaos if our view. Again, i just have to continue to emphasize this. No law has changed between, from january of 2021 to when trump was president until january 200 president. Our Immigration Law was the same before and now. The only thing that changed is the Biden Administrations will to enforce security on our southern border. That is what has changed and that is what has caused this crisis. Host larry is in florida, under line. Stkpwrao chuck, what is the strategy of this administration. I want to make a few points. Special forces say one out of a terrorists so why risk these insane situations for an tank an inequity of treatment of americans are stopped and connected at airports and people coming across the border without that. Be done against n. G. O. s conversations about fences and include illegals and everyone is against supporting illegals with criminal activity . Guest that is one of the post differ questions to answer because im not in the Biden Administration and im not privy to the counsel they have had. We can go off their statements. Theres within the document party of today that somehow the enforcement of our borders, that somehowtion enforcement is racist, it unfairly singles out certain groups of people aer irony. The same individuals that claim america terrible place, some place with thiserent racism that is somehow among the worse in the world but at the same time the same individuals with saye to come in to this apparently this terrible place. So, i think a lot of it has to do with an attitude. It is like a misplaced compassion that believes everyone should have an opportunity to come here whether or not they can have anything to contribute to america, whether or not they are a threat or they have an active kiss of tubeulosis. And the challenge with that is if you look at these mexican human smuggling and drug cartels they terribly abus individuals that come across. Every individual has to pay the cartels between 6,000 and 20,000the nature of where they are coming from. The cartels by the way have a very sophisticated system and they have control of the border. You pay the money, they put a special bracelet on every wrist and they know the status of that individual whether they paid and if they have not paid enough they have a system then of indent toured indent toured serve attitude that the fund who made about that person are impounded by the cartels to make good on the didnt and if they dont pay they the family and friends of the individual who is now working in america back home. They threaten them with kidnapping or torture. And all the women are sexually sarible human smuggling and drug cartels. So i would argue that this compassion is terribly informed malnorth dakota. We know state of california has lost population for three years in a row because californians are picking up and moving mostly to texas, a lot of more conservative campbellens are moving out, the same with new york, they are mostly moving to florida. And if it were not for immigration, legal and illegal these very blue states like campbell and illinois and new york would be losing support people and every 10 years we have the census. And illegalmm the same as were else which determines the funnel of representatives the number of representatives that you have in the u. S. House. So some people have mentioned, whether it is intentional or simply the practical consequence of these policies, that some of these states may under up having one or two, maybe three additional members of congress more than they otherwise would have because of the flood of illegal immigration that occurred under President Joe Biden and his administration. Host freddie in indianapolis democrats lane. The house is about to come in so if you can go with your question as soon as you can, go ahead. Caller give phaef a little bit of time, please. Here is the situation here. When it comes to those seeking yl United States laws says if you put one foot on to this land you generally request asylum. That is what is going on at that border. People are coming in requesting asylum. Now, the president of the United States cannot change the alum laws asylum halls. The only one that can is the congress. And the story you are telling shouldnt be. What you need to be telling the people are to get to your congressman and have them change the asym law. Host apologies, house about to come in but mr. Devore go ahead. This is why the Trump Administration created the remain in mexico policy. The way asylum is supposed to work if you are fleeing religious p■yersecution and the country in which you leaf percent cute you for your political beliefs, theres a terrible war in the country, yo asylum the very first nation that you come to for which you have safe harbor. In the case of the individuals claiming falsely asylum in america, virtually all of them set foot in either mexico or some other country that was safe prior to coming to the u. S. So they are abusing the law, they are claiming asylum we they have no such claim not only if they had a legitimate asylum claim there should have stayed in mexico, or if they do come into the u. S. It has been found Something Like 97 of those who claim asylum are found to have claimed it fraudulently because they are simply coming to t they are economic refugees. They do not meet the definition of asylum. Host you can find the organizations website at texas policy. Com. Hes the serve handouts back in the fall reelection. The republican lawmaker thanked his constituents for their support and years and said that he looks forward to staying involved in the political process, as well as spending more time in colorado and with family. His departure decreases the House Republican majority to 218 seats. Democrats hold 213. The representative was first elected to conget contact inform members of government in the palm of your hand. When you preorder your copy of cspans 22 any for congressional directory, with bio and Contact Information for every house and Senate Member o. Important information on congressional committees, the president s cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. The congressional directory cost 3295 plus shipping and handling in every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. Scan the code on the right or go to cspanshop. Org to preorder your copy for delivery this spring. Cspan is your unfiltered view of government, we are funded by these Elevation Companies and more, including comcast