Transcripts For CSPAN Federal 20240704

Furthermore, we have an exceptional relationship with the National Union and the incoming president and we are going to come up with a plan to streamline policy adoption so we do not have significant delays and have this be a barrier to implementation of the Inspector General ngos recommendation. We have a future state and plan on how these policies negotiations will happen going forward. That is encouraging i would hate to see the clock on your opportunity to resolve these longstanding issues and to have the union at the table and b. O. P. Leadership at the table and be implementing some of the igs recommendations on this critical area is encouraging. I will be following best. I know the chairman will be legislating can i ask one more question with the forbearance of my colleague. When a federal defendant is found mentally incompetent to stand trial. If they release on bail, they are required to be returned to custody to see if their competency can be restored in a b. O. P. Facility. There is few facilities with this capacity. They have very long wait. That means that mentally ill but presumed innocent people can end up in terminal incarceration before they get the help they need and the criminal justice process can proceed. This has led to charges being dropped due to speedy trl issues. Director peters, can you speak about what b. O. P. Has been doing about this and will you work with me on helping identify ways congress can help pacifically on this yes, thank you, senator. This is longstanding issue that has been had a round like of resources that have resulted in the backlog of these reviews. Heres what we have done in the last year. We have added additional beds at our facility in chicago to help us peel back this backlog. We are looking at adding additional beds this year at another facility that we have yet to determine but working on a plan. We have also worked to create a psychology review team, that is a traveling team that will travel across the country to help work on this backlog. And then we are working on a program where we can hire individuals who have their phd but have not completed their dissertation that would be to come and help with the reviews as well. This is a longstanding issue that we are trying to fix. It is a conversation ive had with the u. S. Attorneys on many occasions. It is certainly in our sites. Thank you, both. Thank you, mr. Chairman. As we mentioned earlier, the subcommittee is having a hearing this afternoon on staffing in the federal prisons. It has come up in this mornings meeting many times. We want to reckon i senator booker. Thank you very much for this hearing but i am grateful for the two witnesses being here. Before i getto this question on staffing in general, i want to talk about Mental Health and the wellbeing of both people that are incarcerated as well as the Mental Health of a lot of our incredible Correctional Officers suicide rates for both groups are alarming to me. Nationally, according to this 14 about cots concern for all americans that it is high. People in custody die in rates that are much higher. According to the bureau of justice and statistics in 2019, up to 20 out of 100,000 persons. First, director, for the people that are incarcerated, what steps is the b. O. P. Taking to curb this extraordinary rate of individuals committing suicide in custody . Thank you, center. We have done a variety of ings. While onesided on our watches one too many, i think what we have a limit are represented in the data and that our suicide rate is less than the general population and less than state corrections. It has to do a lot with the psychology resources that we do have while i am going to argue for more and better paper those doctoral level psychologist, they do do incredible work in terms of finding those individuals that need resources and rewrap those resources around them. And we have more work to do. We are looking at our after action reports to see if those need to be more substantive. Are we showing the data across the country when we find issues that need to be solved . I personally read every reconstruction report. And then meet with my Multi Disciplinary Team to talk about what we have learned and how to lament changes going forward. Sticking with inmate. And an old ig report there was a discussion of the Inmate Companion Program in which s who are in b. O. P. Custody and a b. O. P. Staff. E report indicates that both detain individuals and staff found several benefits from the program. Staff explained the Program Participants were more effective staff at suicide watch is because they took better notes and interacted more frequently than staff. I am just wondering, can you provide the committee with Additional Information on this program and this is expand . As i ve traveled to more than 40 institutions in the last year, i have had the privilege of meeting some companions. Not only does the data bear that it is productive programs, stories about their ability to connect better with a peer, if you will, then maybe a correction professional would be able to do. It has been quite they take their job so seriously. We traithd not select random adults in custody. We have a clear selection process. And then we train them, like we train our staff are looking for the predictive characteristics that we are looking for. Just to jump in. I want to try to get two more questions and. W enforcement in general has real challenges with Mental Health and the suicide rates of Law Enforcement are difficult. Can you talk about the b. O. P. Personnel real quick and ill get another question on the staffing issues for Correctional Officers. Can you provide the committee with an update on some of the financial incentives that youve talked about. I find that correctional offers are the bottom of all federal Law Enforcement. The amount of money they make why would it be a tsa agent or jobs like that that it is the compensation. Can you address the Mental Health and wellness steps you are taking for officers and the financial incentives which seem to be urgently needed and i think these hard workers need to be paid more. Thank you, center. I appreciate your passion around the Mental Health of our professionals who are Unsung Heroes in the toughest Law Enforcement and the data is startling. One and three have symptoms of ptsd. That means more anxiety and depression. That means reliance on Substance Abuse and higher levels of divorce. Over 90 are obese. Or in the overweight category. Over 90 have hypertension or prehypertension. Which means there on the track for cardiac disease. Ng. What we are finding across the country that in some places, they can leave the federal bureau of prisons and work for state corrections and make 2 to 3 the bonuses that we are battling against with fast food organizations. We have thrown every incentive that we can at this problem, every recruitment incentive and retirement retention incentive. We reviewed the thousand by 2000 for Correctional Officers. The bottom line, as i said in my opening comment referring, we need to increase the base salary we need to pay more. When we compared to other Law Enforcement i also want to remind the committee that the average on boarding for Law Enforcement is 21 weeks and our officers received about six. It is truly unfortunate. I am hoping you can answer for recognizing a part of the question about more detail into iate the indulgence, mr. Chairman. Senator cotton, you would be next. If you like a minute, senator ossoff. Thank you for being here. Director peters, following up on senator bookers question about incentives at usp atlanta, as at many facilities, there are severe staffing issues and difficulty returning and retaining staff. I had sent a letter asking that b. O. P. Undertake what efforts it could ives and take steps to ensure that the Correctional Officers are well paid and can be retained. You have replied, which i appreciate just like your commitmec my office to treat the Correctional Officers well and paying them properly and retaining their services. Thank you, senator. I am committed to that we have thrown every incentive we camp th is in with recruitment incentives, retention incentives. At the core of many of the issues that the Inspector General revealed is a lack of staffing. This is important to us. As i said in my opening comments, while the incentives have proven a bandaid affect, we need to increase the base salary for these Correctional Officers so we can have the best and the brigm hoping we can work to other to identify additional tools to identify s remain on the subject of staffing. In 2021, b. O. P. Hired a contractor develop a tool that was intended to help the bureau determine necessary Staffing Levels for safety at b. O. P. Facilities, correct . That is correct. In march 2023, a year ago approximate, b. O. P. Reported the tool is still being tested in three of the six regions and said it would be rolled out to all six regions by june of 2023. Did that happen . I am not sure exactly when it was rolled ou completed the initial Data Analysis as it relates to those employees who are in the Correctional Services program division. They are recommending an additional 3500 positions in that category going forward. How many regions is that tool currently being used and is it being used for usp atlanta , for example . It is important to understand that tool is to help us plan for future budging planet and request that will not help me for crisis today because i cannot feel the positions that you have paid for today. And how many regions . All six but that 3500 is all rking on right now is help the services. Which we have difficulty maintaining and recruiting staff in that category as well. My office and several offices have asked for a demonstration of this tool and been told not provide it because the tool is still being refined. Can you make sure that we are able to view, observe emperor to spit in a menstruation about tool in the next several weeks . I will work with my team and see the availability and where we are at with the tool and are about to share with you. We cannot understand why we cannot see it. It does not make any sense. We should be able to come and see the tool. I will work with my team and see what we can do. That we can come and see it in short order. I understand b. O. P. Conducted an expection early this year but my team has requested a copy. Is unlike b. O. P. Is working on that bridge or have your commitment to get that to us properly . You have my commitment to get to you as quickly as we can. Thank you very much. Inspector general, your report has detailed how b. O. P. Staff or in some cases not caring out key duties including required inmate Mental Health assessments counts and rounds and trainings among others that found that these failures contribute to deaths in custody. Hallux evident a role in understanding plan those failures . I think it is a very sad immigrant problem it has been a challenge. As we have gone in prisons to inspect them and the problems that go both for Correctional Officers who are substantially understaffed, ultimately being asked to work sometimes voluntary and sometimes mandatory overtime. Then we have augmentation which is healthcare, potentially, educational staff, facility staff to cover the duties of Correctional Officers, which has a cascading effect. There long wait for step back training. Healthcare staffing can be like that. It is a big challenge. With my remaining time, i want to followup on initial usp atlanta. A psi investigation that i led several years ago found very substantial flow of contraband into the facility, including weapons and narcotics. Igs recent report that drugs contribute to one third of deaths in custody at what steps are taken to address the flow of contraband and the threat that poses Public Safety apis ladies and particular usp atlanta . The issues that were uncovered still fall into these two categories, lack of staffing and our maintenance and repair backlog. As we were able to show you during your visit at usp atlanta , the facility structure was currently but it allowed for hiding contraband inside our institution. We are working to maintain our facilities in a way where they are safe and secure. We are also working every day to interdict contraband in our institutions through the useeb of detecting and stopping drone activities. Looking at the mail and looking at ways to stop drugs from coming in via the mail. We work diligently to ensure that anyone entering our institution has a background check and is physically screened before they come inside. This is something that is top of mind as you know and pointed out. Contraband is a significant issue and can lead to lost lives or even impact the safety and security of our employees. Can i speak to the contraband issue. It is such a significant issue. It is connected that we found one third of the deaths in our review and the report, we spections. We were fci tallahassee, for example. What you saw there in terms of challenges on contraband with inmate potentially smuggling contraband, inmates who were nce line could easily have something thrown over a fence to them. It made with collecting garbage that were not being checked as they brought back into the facility. Some basic staff that you would think it is not sophisticated to figure out how to try and interdict that kind of contraband ran not surprisingly, by the way, the prism of the highest number of deaths in our report was usp atlanta, which had been closed in 2021 precisely because of the hundreds but dozens of cell phones and drugs in this is a major problem. We have had a staff search policy recommendation open for years that has not been implemented. A basic search policy for staff coming in to the facility that has happened either. There are a lot of challenge on the contraband issue that are significant. We are concerned is contributing to inmate deathsmade weapons and from drugs being brought into the facility. , both. Senator cotton. Director pierce that peters. The Inspector General noted that solving the bureau x staffing shortages, quote, one of the Building Blocks to address the chronic challenges facing the b. O. P. He also said that significant staffing shortages have had a, quote, cascading effect on your bureaus facilities. When you testified six months ago, i asked you how many Correctional Officer positions were filled. You do not have an answer at the time. Last month you did an interview with 60 minutes and do not have an answer. Do you have having Correctional Officers you have on the payroll . Yes. We have almost 40,000 authorized positions across the organization. And 14,899 of those are Correctional Officers. We are going to 100 fund those positions. There only 82 felt at this time. 14,899 are Correctional Officers yes. The individuals that you would think in your mind on that unit safeguarding. You said 40,000 that is your total personnel . What are you authorized and fun of her by congress for Correctional Officers . We are authorized at the 14,899 number. It is 100 funded. Are yo not authorize around 20,000 . 20,000 is the correctional offer series position. That includes Correctional Officers, lieutenant rachel services officers, which are receiving and discharging and also the number includes correctional counselors. Okay. 14,899 is what you have today. Do you know you had six months ago . No, senator. New officers have been hired over the last six months . I know we have made progress in the last year. We have moved our over all recruitment and retention from 87 last year to 90 . We moved are Correctional Officer fell fromthe 70s into 82 about 82 now. In 2022, Congress Passed a law requiring that your employees spend 90 of their time on their primary responsibility. If a Correctional Office spends i percent of his time being a Correctional Officer and an hvac technician spends i percent of his time doing hvac work. The bureau has not complied with that law to my knowledge. Six months ago, i asked how much time your employees are spending on average on their primary responsibility. You have an answer for that today . I do. It is different in every institution. In some, we will take usp thompson because we have been able to lower the number lower the mission, we need if employees but are not relying on augmentation advertisement brooklyn, we are relying on it substantially becauslackstaffing for many officers are working 16 hours regularly and we are having to engage in augmentation on a daily basis at that institution. As you know, while those psychologists are teachers and who ever is being augmented is fully trained and prepared to do thatare not able to do their current job as you are alluding to. I take your point that you could average across all facilities but that average is not particularly meaningful. These facilitiesin the old world. And a facility that is well bounce will have everyone doing 90 of their job. Augmentation and overtime. That is correct. In the facilities where we are fully staffed or more full staff, we have just been clear direction to those wardens to begin over hiringthat if they are in an economy where we are able to bring in Correctional Officers, we will hire them and td why them to some other institutions that are in more dire straits. It is. Well what we can share, senator. Gsf making 48,000 a year. My understanding is that they can top out at 74,000 a year. By border patrol, they can top out at 113,000. Does the bureau have trouble competing with the pay of other federal enforce agencies . It is great trouble. We look at state corrections in new york. Individumake 2 or 3 times more working for the income citys Corrections Department than the federal bureau of prisons. If we issued a 35 Retention Bonus at brooklyn that allows someone after a few years to makeyear. For state corrections in the same time period, you make 130,000 a year. The last appropriations bill that Congress Passed, they asked the bureau to consider increasing pay to match the other agencies and asked for a review to be submitted no latter than last june. Has that been submitted yet . I dont know. I will check. I was able to increase the base salary of base Correctional Officers by 2,000. I did not have the authority to go beyond that. Please do and get back to ;5 us. And we have raised contrabands in prison. The most dangerous are cell phones. They are not going to kill anyone themselves, but they enable other crimes outside of prison. This will make it clear to state prisons that they can use targeted jamming and block cell phone signals in prison housing had some resistance from the telecome industry. I wish they would come to their senses on this issue. Can you manage Access Systems . We have, both in in terms of detection and jamming. Both proved very successful. What my employees are telling me is that the detection versus the jamming is the most helpful we can investigate and figure out who has it and who brought in and solve the greater flow of the contraband problem. Mr. Horowitz, since you addressed issue, would you like to a statement. A cell phone in a prison is a deadly weapon. We investigated a murderfor hire on a corrections officer. The hit was put on by someone in the prison. One of the things ive asked for smuggling a cell phone into a prison is a federal misdemeanor. Is not a i was surprised by that. I assume it had to a felony. It isnt. What we found, by the way, ill tie contra Sexual Assault. We have a major problem with xual a women and male inmates. And the contraband is to groom inmates and it is way to gain favors. We prosecuted a chaplain in federal facility in New Hampshire for bringing contraband cell phones and other items. That is something we should not have to make a bribery case, which we have to do to bring the felony charge. That is what we drive to do. But finding the person with contraband, it is a lot easier to make those cases. A small fraction staff are involved in the b. O. P. Conduct and get them out. I know this from my time as a prosecute in new york where a prosecuted some corrupt police officers, there is not a single b. O. P. Employee that wants to work next to a corrupt employee or a dangerous inmate who is engaging in crimes. So we we all have to focus on that. I think there is some valuable suggestions and im happy to work to move some of them forward. I would like to be more specific. We talked about staffing and many different respects and im senator booker will address some of them this afternoon. I would like to zero in on the health staff. But it appears this is one of the real deficiencies in what weve identifies as we go forward through the the file. This has been a challenge. We ourselves a health care organization. So many people come to our facility with mental issues. So we have a sick population. Recruiting and retaining medical professionals is very difficult. I visited some of our institutions where Health Services was half filled. Were having to it dy people across the country. Leaning into the telehealth to ensure just approved a 25 recruitment incentives. We have individual insensitive across the country for doctors that said they were going to leave, psychologists that she had they were going to leave. So were doing everything in our authority. But i will tell you that doctors in our care can leave and make almost double what theyre making for us in the community. This is something that were working on. Is this something that is very troubling. But we have to figure it out, like i said with the Correctional Officers how to increase the base pay for our medical professionals that we can provide the quality care that we need to provide. Are you familiar with the National Health service core . Yes. Are there applicants for jobs in the bureau of prisons that are going to have a opportunity for loan forgiveness to take the jobs . I dont know the answer to that. But ill look into that. I think well look into that as well. General hurwitz, do you have any thoughts . I think that is something to look into. I think if were looking for incentives and Health Care Professionals, and theyre certainly needed, the insensitive of incentive of loan forgiveness. I think we should try it i believe at the federal level, we have so many areas where we need Health Care Professionals that we need to think more seriously about a program that is federally inspired that results in a work force that is needed at this point. Do you need a minute more to adjust to the circumstances . Are you ready . Im recognizing you. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Director, we talked about the situation where would he dont have a residential reentry facility, it is a serious issue. Is there a difference that they can receive assistance with the housing, treatments, unemployment, it has been proven to reduce recidivism. Vermont, this is shocking to me and senator sanders, vermont is one of only two states that does not have the benefit of that facility. I know when we spoke about this, you indicated that we were going to get one. But you classified that you misspoke and it was going to be a reporting facility instead. Reporting facility is not worth it. Reporting would mean that people have to go to providence, rhode island. That is a long away from burlington. Or they would have to go to New Hampshire or boston. So it just doesnt do the job. After you classified that, you indicated that the vermont delegation researched the matter and at the residential facility was necessary, you may change course. We did our research. Most promptly, we checked with the attorneys and most importantly with our federal judges. And i would ask for unanimous consent to enter senator peters into the record. So noted. The borough of prisons on friday that you planned to proceed against our consensus and not provide the residential our office did speak to the stakeholders, including the chief judge crawford and he wrote to you in december expressing that vermont absolutely needs a reentry permission to submit his letter into record . Without objection. In his letter he wrote, the chief judge, the lack of facility in vermont interferes with every pro social activity to return to normal life, including the longterm employment, connecting with family and locating housing. The chief justice added, our judges all believe our judges all believe that opening a Residential Reentry Center in vermont is for the improvement of Public Safety and rehabilitation. And there was a report from the chief probation officer outlining the for a center. We presented this from the defense and the prosecution side. I understand that you received the letter. So what is the deal . How do we get our Reentry Program in vermont so were not the only state that dont have the services for the people that need them. Thank you, senator for this conversation. Im all happy to take in new information. Lets get to the point. I will get to the poin senator. Our Market Analysis determined that since there are so few individuals releasing back to vermont, it is not financially feasible Reentry Center. The Daily Reporting Center will provide all the wrap around services to the residential i dont think you provided the market study to us to take a look at. I can work with your team and mine to share with you about that study. I dont understand the market study. We have the probation officers and we have the judges and the district saying that we need this. Why is it that vermont would be the only one state in the entire nation, along with hawaii, temporarily, is that doesnt have it . Why do we need a market study . We have defendants, judges, we got the need. Senator, again, it is all around resources and trying to balance. That is a different question. That is a different question. Ifsaying that the market study doesnt need as much as new york city, that is right. But we need in vermont. Im happy to any new information and look at it. Put we feel confident in decision around the Daily Reporting Center it will hold more people we need to work on this more. Theyre two totally different things. The Reentry Center provides resources to people when they are coming back into society. The reporting center, it way. There is no follow through, you dont get the resources. It is astonishing that the market study said that vermont is unique that we dont need or deserve or should have the benefit of the same services that are provided in every other state in this great country of ours. Can have further conversation. We want a Reentry Center that is what our chief judge is saying that we need. U. Senator grassily. When the Bureau Prisons let Correctional Officers supervise adult inmates if the officer did not clear an fbi naticrime Center Background and fingerprint background check prior to employment. If that is the case, i would like to say, not just for you, but my colleagues, if folks that have not passed an fbi background check are not allowed to supervise adults, we should not give them custody of uncompanied alien children. But the offices of refugee with children does not included even if the childs well is in question. This needs to stop. And i hope the committee brings in more witnesses on this subject and takes up more legislation to protect our kids. Ill take advantage of you being here to ask a followup question. I wrote you on november 2nd last year about your review of the Justice Department obtaining phone records of members of congress and staff. In response, you said that your report will likely cover most, if not all of the 8 category categories of information that i asked for. It is has said that the Justice Department received these to the discredited investigation. But im concerns that the Justice Department used this as an excuse to keep tabs on congress as we conducted oversight of the department relating to the crossfe hurricane. Can you provide an update on the scope of your review and when you expected that. Did the Justice Department apply the same investigative standards so its agents and staff are other officials in the branch that may have leaked information as did members of congress and our staff . Thank you, senator. Ill give you an update on timing and where we are. Were planning to cover, i said in my letter to you, the issues that you reference and the categories that we spoke about. Were in the process of drafting the report. So we will hopefully be able to get out in a reasonable amount of time. I will add because so much of these issues to cover highly classified information, as you know from our prior reviews, we have to go through the department and the various intelligence committees to get to the point where we can issui always put that caveat in any reports that we have involving classified information. But were working to get it done. We made good progress. And the second question that you raised the issue is one that were also assessing. They do exactly same thing for their own staff. That is one of the issues that were assessing and well report on that, senator. Director peters, in february, 2024, the Justice Department Inspector General report in the facilities found the fcc hazel ton had 14 deaths from 2014 to 2021. Last year, september 12th, 2023, i wrote to about additional allegations of serious misconduct occurring at fcc hazel ton. Ton. Some are officers assessment and time attending assaulting of inmates. You have not yet to respond to our letter. Why not . And what are you doing to straighten out the significant problems as hazelton that we identified in the letter. We take those seriously. And it is suffering from a lack of staffing. Were having difficulty recruiting and retaining there. One of the things that we have done recently is we actually closed down a unit in order to deploy staff to the rest of the institution. Like i said earlier, recruitment and retention is at the federal bureau of prisons. And hazelton is not alone in that problem. Is the problem that i brought to your attention related to the number of people that you have on staff and nothing else . Senator, i think it is a variety of things. We talked contraband and interesting to tackle the serious issue of contraband in our institutions. If you look at the Maintenance Repair backlog, i think that can add to it and we have to talk a lot about the work that the Inspector General and i have been to clear up the backlogged investigations, the number of staff that weve added to the office of internal affairs. When i started, there were less than 30 employees in the office and now were looking at almost 150 with direct oversight direct through the Central Office in order to not only sure up the backlog but to hold people accountable in a swift and sure fashion. Thank you to answering my questions. I kennedy will have a first round to asking questions. Thank you mr. Inspector general, how are you . Fine, sir. Directer peters, youre the director of the prisons . Right. Oregon is about to reverse that right, is that correct . Senator, im not familiar with policy proposed ignored the orders. Oregon still have a special place in my heart, sir. You have nored anything about the reversal . No, sir. You have not read anything about it . Correct, sir. Youre in charge of implementing the First Step Act . Thats correct. How many criminals have you released in the First Step Act . For overall release since the sincethe start of that, 30,000 individuals. So criminals under the First Step Act. Okay. Before you released them, did you contact any of the victims to say that were about to let this guy out . Senator, it is my understanding that that notification happens through the u. S. Attorneys office. But i will check to that and get back to you. You dont know . Senator, i dont. Have you followed up with the u. S. Attorneys to say, were about to let this guy out, we want to make sure that the victim is contacted . As a former victims advocate, i share that value. Ill check on the process. But you dont know if that is happen something. Ats correct. Wow of the 30,000 criminals that you let free, how many of them have come back, committed a crime again, hurt somebody else . That number is one that were still looking at it as it relates to at the time recidivism act. You dont have any idea no, senator. You dont have anything at the bureau that can count . I do not have that number in front of me. So let me get this straight. The First Step Act was passed in 2018. And this is 2024. That is six years. Thats correct. And in six years you let 30,000 criminals go, correct . Thats correct. And you dont have many committed another crime and came back . Yes. And you dont mean how many employees do you have . About 40,000. General, you got do. Could you give us a hand here and lets find out if the First Step Act worked and how many we released 30,000 criminals after six years our director here doesnt know how many have committed another crime and come back . Can you help us . Senator, i can followup on that issue. I will say in in terms of work that we have done in the past, for example, on compassionate release. D going to the bureau of prisons, this is before director peters with a there and asking them for data and come an compassionate release. We were told it would save money and it would be in the interest of Public Safety to release criminals prison. I didnt vote for it. Build the majority rules. And director peters at the bureau of prisons and her colleagues have released 30,000 criminals, all of whom were there for a reason. They didnt go to prison for a free toaster. They were there for a reason. And after six years, we dont have the slightest idea, not a single one of the 40,000 of her employees know how many have committed a second crime and come back. How the hell are we supposed to figure out if ed . People should hide their head in a bag, director, that you cannot come in front of congress and answer that question. Im sorry. I interrupted you with my speech. That is okay. My bottom line point on it was i often looked to the questions on things like compassionate release in other programs and one of the other challenges that we found is that the department ju doesnt have good data on that. Halfway houses. Congress is spending about a half billion dollars in Halfway Houses. We need to find out. I believe in justice. You ly. But there are people out there i dont know why, if i make to heaven, im going to asked. Theyre not mixed up or confused or sick, it is not that their mom or daddy did not love them enough. They just hurt other they take other peoples stuff. And we have to separate them from society the director let 30,000 of the folks go and can to the tell me how many have come back. It takes my breath away, with 40,000 people. How many of your 40,000 people actually come to work or still working from home, director . The super majority come to work every day because we work 24 7. What percentage . The percentage high. If they cannot come to work, they cannot give us the answer. This is why people hate government and dont trust government. I would like to respond concerning the grassily durbin First Step Act signed into lou. I thought you might have a response. By president donald trump. I want to repeat. I dont consider donald trump softand crime. Let me you the numbers that we have. 30,000 released. The number of people with recidivism 12. 8 . By comparison, the doj estimate the decade before the First Step Act was passed, 43 of the people formally incarcerated were rearrested within the first year of their release. The point is we decided with the trump add trump and senator grassily they will be for prepared for release. 80 in the system are going to be released some day. We dont want another crime or have another victim. I would submit this as a success. Dont put your hit in the bag or whatever the senator suggested. Stand up tall and make it better. Im ready to do that. But the First Step Act was a constructive reform of the penal system and i think it was a good idea and ill stand by it. Ill submit to your question. I didnt vote for the First Step Act. I was afraid this was going to happen. What i hear you saying is that of the 30,000 that the director released over 30,000 committed 3,000. Why do you know that and she doesnt and 40,000 employees . I would like to say in all fairness. In oath, when you ask for numbers, she wants to tell you a number that she can live with. I have the information that i think is close to a hundred percent accurate. But i under oath it is. Give her the fair opportunity to respond. But not your job. I appreciate the information. I would like to see the study that shows that. I just dont understand why she doesnt know thatassuming under oath it is an honest answer. We have two other individuals that are seeking a second round. I hate to distract from my questions. I want to defend the work that we do it. The dramatic drop in recidivism rates, what it is not the bureau of prisons job to do that. It saved america hundreds of millions of llhas lowered crime. We max people out in prison and dont prepare them. You cannot keep them by law. So when people max out and dont have Halfway Houses and dont have the kind of resources that people were released during this have, the recidivism is through the charts. So we have to be smart on crime. One of the biggest growths of bureaucracy is the prison is in United States of america and it is not make is us safer. The mission of the b. O. P. Is not to track folks after theyre gone. What i understand, that is not your mission. Your mission is to hold them securely and put them in programs and so forth. If we want of the Justice Department, im for grilling them. But youre one of the folks that were giving you too little resources to do and too much work. And that is what i would like to jump into. I have a lot of frustrations going on. I watched you as professional struggle to meet the demands put on you in a moment where congress is not giving you the resources necessary to do your job even in facilities that are outrageously you said that you need 2. 5 million for repairs. Congress allocated 59 million. People are dieing in your facilities because there is youre spot on. And the number has grown. It is closer to 3 billion. We continue to have roofs that are crumbling. We continue to have hvacs that stopped working. And if you look at the money that we get from congress, it is about a hundred thousand dollars a year to solve that 3 billion problem. And the cost of one roof replacement is a million dollars. This say pattern here. Youre employees could leave your job and not make 10 or 20 more but a ndred percent more. You know this. When you have to hold somebody on a shift what does that do to a family suddenly when they can in the pick up their kids from school. I hear it all the time is not just the physical wear and tare and mental ware and tear, it is an impact on the family. I talked to them that are not allowed to leave and the family is in crisis. They have people who is picking up the kids from daycare and who is cooking. That is day in and day out for our preach how much we support Law Enforcement and this is utterly shameful. By october 2023, the b. O. P. Housed about 8 to the solitary confinement. The report noted significant Racial Disparities with black individuals comprising half of the population and 59 in solitary. Can you address that for me . That is in federal corrections and state corrections. Often what we find is the level of Gang Activity in our institutions is what drives that number. That is unacceptable to me. We have to ask the hard questions about the disproportionate number of individuals of minority status that are in restrictive housing. I hope that is something that my staff can work with you on as well. The final thing i want to say is the chairman said it. I think there is room for a lot of bipartisan work here to to address the issues. The shamefulness of what is happening with the lack of facility and personnel and certain line items is outrageous implications of the United States of america and the supportment of Law Enforcement officers and creating any humane conditions in prisons. I want to talk about the ability to jam cell phone signals. Im wondering it on the jamming issue, the only push back they get is the need for federal public offenders when meeting with their clients to access to work the internet. Is there a workaround for that concern . Do you think it will be a deterrent if it was not a misdemeanor but a felony . Yes, for. I think thrkaround. I think one of the issues that senator cotton had it, the fcc and the Technology Companies have opposed it or raised it because of the inability, i think, to limit the jamming or limit the interference to the grounds itself of the facility as opposed to some of the parameter areas, particularly where there are homes nearby. So i think those are some of the issues that have been at issue here. But many state prison have been doing this for years. California has been involved in jamming technology. We have done work in our office and we successfully do it. It is clearly doable. Were glad to see forward. But the misdemeanor to the felony, if somebody is caught sneaking if a cell phone they lose their job, right . Here is the issue. From a uniostandpoint, if they are a union member there, is an ability to litigate that question on a misdemeanor. A feny charge, if someone is convicted of a felony charge, theyre out. My understanding is if it is a misdemeanor, the federal prosecutors are not taking the cases. So no one is getting prosecuted for a misdemeanor. So theyre not being prosecuted. And that leaves it up to the b. O. P. s administrative process only to deal with the problem. And that sometimes does not, as i understand it, does not result in the removal of individuals. Im happy to speak to your staff about this, where we have had cases involving Sexual Assaults that were the of some grooming in foods. Bringing in food is a misdemeanor. Think about how that is an enticement to female inmates potentially. That should not happen. I agree with you. Not to be light hearted on this. When you say that nobody for federal misdemeanors. That is not an invitation to commit the misdemeanors. You are correct. There are rare occasions where there are misdemeanor charges brought. But almost every u. S. Attorneys office in the country has lots of felony cases. I want to make sure they heard that. U for the help, senator. Thank you for the second opportunity. On this point about the Disciplinary Procedures it it is the office of internal affairs at bthe this, correct . Thats correct. Once they review and determine there is nothing criminal in nation and they kick it back to us and we engage in the administrative investigation. So lets update on the backlogs. Psi investigation a couple years ago into the Sexual Assault of female inmates, there were about 8,000 backlogged cases at oia. And b. O. P. Told us it would take about two years to clear the backlog. B. O. P. Just provided to my office an update that there are still over 7300 pending cases before oia. So that is about a 7 reduction. You said publicly in a cbs interview last month, it would take about two years to clear the oia backlog. Two years ago, b. O. P. Said two years, this year, b. O. P. Says two years to clear the backlog. Why . And when it will be cleared . Thank you, senator. I too share your frustration in the time it is taking to clear the backlog, but it is not because of a lack of a plan. We had 30 employees in the office of s. It took us till last fall to get the positions filled. So now were at 150 individuals in the office of intern headquarters so that there is that centralized oversight that you wanted. We have them fully trained and were just starting to see a chip down of that backlog. But were not just looking at the backlog, were looking at ways to clear the backlog by looking at, as an example, how many of these investigations could actually and the warden level. If you have an employee comes in five minutes late, you are considered a wool. A wol. Im glad to hear that youve added capacity in personnel. So when will it be cleared . I asked for that exact update before this hearing because i knew you would ask and th were hoping to have it cleared in the next two years. I hope this is the last time will be again two years. But i do appreciate the effort that you clearly invested into trying to rectify this. Getting back to staffing issue and staffing compensation and we were talking about how b. O. P. Personnel are underpaid. How much more do they need to be paid . So right now we have about 45 of our employees receiving some form of incentives. In new york, you can get paid two or three times more for working for them. So the answer varies depending on where the facilities or. In rural areas, were faced with just having saturated the we hired everyone that lives in areas. In the rural area were competing fast food chains and grocery stores. How much more in next fiscal year does b. O. P. Need to resolve the fact you cannot currently offer competitive salaries. Were looking to propose a new salary rate table. So my hr team is working on that ta right now. So well have in the next budget. So need to go to doj and they need to go to omb and justify and theyll say why do you need this many more millions or billions of dollars if you cannot justify that with some rigorous analysis, your request is to get denied. For the next president ial budget cycle, are you going to have a specific number or specific appropriation that you need from the congress that is backed up by rigorous analysis in order to resolve this salary issue . We hope to have it and maintenance and repair backlog. Im just looking at the staffing tool. The Senate Judiciary Committee Sensitive information. Were asking to come in and review a tool that to use to determine Staffing Levels. Racking my brain here, i cannot think of any reason that your office of legislative affairs would deny my staff and members of this committee the opportunity to view how that tool functions. I cannot think of any reason at all. So we need to get our teams together and get in the room and look at the tool and see how it works. Thank you, senator. We want to be as transparent as possible. I suspect it is a work we can look at works in progress. Im happy to have this conversa we even talked to the executive team to have an outward facing product so the public could even see it. Let my team have a look. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I want to thank all the members that participated in this hearing today. I made this a special item in if the agenda of the focus on corrections because i felt for a long time that were fast to sentencing and criminal procedure and alike. And we need to find out what happens next for those that ar convicted and incarcerated as a result of it. Historically, i know some great people had great things about corrections. One was Nelson Mandela who himself spent 18 years in prison in south africa and went of his country. But he said no one truly knows a nation till one has been inside its jails. A nation should how it treats the highest citizens but the lowest ones. The purpose of this hearing was to make it clear that a federal prison sentence should never be a death sentence, never. And in too many circumstances it has been. Were lucky to have you, director peters. Im glad you took the job. It is a tough one. I think you handle it well. We dont but i respect all the work that youre putting general hurwitz youre a treasure to this country. Were lucky to have you. To all the workers in the bureau of prisons, especially the ones at risk in the discharge of their duties, thank you. We could not keep this country safe without you and i appreciate all of those at every level in the bureau of prisons that make that possible. There will be some questions for the record. Youve seen them before. You better respond to senator grassily, hell remind you that you didnt. He loves to get his answered. So thanks for being here and this hearing stands adjourned. Thank you, senator. Senate ms. Duckworth are we in a quorum call . Pre the presiding officer we are not. Ms. Duckworth ive been called a lot of names