Transcripts For CSPAN Washington 20240704

Host good morning and welcome to washington journal. The Republican Party will hold it first debate. For the next year or so the United States will be consumed with accusations, and falsehoods as both Political Parties and to gain dominance. Arent all americans looking for peace and prosperity. Our the political divides against the party so great and if they are what does it say about the future of our country . Are you concerned about the growing political divide in this country . We are opening up regional lines. If you are in the eastern or central time zone, your telephone number is going to be 202 7488000. If you are in the mountain or pacific time zone, your number is going to be 202 7488001. You can always text us at 202 7488003. And we are always reading on social media and facebook. You can follow us on x cspanwj. The First Political debate of the president ial election will come up this week. Are you concerned about what the other side is doing . Lets start by looking at this gallup pole that talks about poll that talks about the partisan cap is growing a as well. We talk about foreign trade, immigration, health care, and taxes. Do you believe what those on the other side are saying or do you believe politicians are causing more problems . What do you see causing the growing political divide . Do you see it in media or politics. Lets go to a quote we saw in Time Magazine. This was back in may. One of the things they say is causing the political divide is a lack of Civic Education. I want to bring the quote to you. If we fail to teach the civil dialogue necessary, we will endanger the american progress. Instead of building a Better Future by Common Ground they will only go deeper into partisanship and extremism. Fortunately there is a way out. It requires a new way of thinking about Civic Education. We need to teach students the virtues of democratic citizenship. We need to teach the ability to consider arguments with which we disagree and engage in dialogue with music different in dialogue with people with music different in dialogue with people with views different than our own. We want to know from you, what do you think is causing the political divide . Is it the lack of education, the media, politicians . Lets talk to stan who is calling from alabama. Caller i appreciate you taking my call this morning. The political divide centers on one thing, donald trump and his ascension into politics. Host are you saying you dont think he the country was politically divided 10 years ago . Caller all you have to do is look at the rhetoric and what is going on in this country. My friends are Trump Supporters. They dont know different. They were raised that way. They cant help yourselves. This country has to come to the conclusion that we have to stop all this and come together. Host how do you identify politically . Caller m an i am an american. I try not to identify politically. Host you dont vote for a particular party . Caller no sir. Host what are some of the solutions that will help heal the growing political divide in the United States . Caller for one thing, we have to do away with all this discourse in our politics. I used to be able to talk to my friends about politics but you cant talk to these people. That is a problem. Host describe what happens when you talk politics with your friends. Is it that becomes a screaming match, no one is listening . Caller they dont want to listen to you. They think they have a godgiven right to do what they are doing. That is what part of the problem is. Trump doesnt go with church. He doesnt even practice religion. Host i see that you particularly are blaming former President Trump. Was there political divide before former President Trump . Caller sure there was but nothing like it is now. Host lets go to marie who is calling from the latin pennsylvania doylestown pennsylvania. Caller i believe part of the reason is because people who are in politics talk around things. Government people dont come to the is sue issue. Lawyers have to go to school to find out what exactly anything means. When people are talking to each other, there is so much confusion as to what is going on that they cant even get the point. No matter what it is if you try and get some information, if you call a Municipal Center or government in any way, you are switched around and you cant even talk to anybody. In the newspaper contrives anything they want to talk about. Host do you see, in your personal life, political divide when you talk to your friends, family . Can you talk about Politics Around the dinner table anymore . Caller yes you can. I talk a lot. A lot of my friends are democrats and republicans and we talk in a way we can understand each other. Yes is yes and no is no. When you listen to anybody talk on television, anybody running for politics, they wont say yes. They run around the issue. They will say, if the sun comes up, this and this and this and that could be the answer. They dont say yes. They will talk about anything except for an absolute yes or no. They pass the buck off. It is not my fault it is someone elses fault. I dont know how we got into this but it definitely is the political way of speaking and of understanding if we dont take responsibility for it and push it onto some else like it is not your fault. Everybody has to try to figure out whats everybody is saying and then maybe we could understand whats going on politically, because sometimes it is said that its what youre not saying is the problem and that definitely is underlying a lot of things. It is not what they are saying. Host for a lot of people in this country they have a difficult time talking politics with their friends and family. You say you dont. Tell the rest of us some of your secrets of being able to talk politics with your friends and family without getting frustrated and people getting angry at each other. Caller respect them i respect them. If they have a particular view, that is fine and that is what they think and i respect that. Host you said you have friends that are both democrats and republicans. What part of the political spectrum do you fall on . Caller i was raised republican. All my family has been involved in the military and i respect all the people that have gone into the military, whether democrat or republican, they have to support our country. I believe you have to help people, be caring, but they have to be able to take care of themselves. It is your own personal responsibility to take care of yourself, but it is also your responsibility to help other people. It should be even and we should give steps or a way for everybody to obtain their level of emotional security, actual support, and that doesnt seem to be happening all around. Host lets go to lee who is calling from grand forge, new york. Caller i have two examples of extreme political divide. One i heard this morning. Some 2024 president ial candidate vows to finish the wall. It is being auctioned off for peanuts to stop the wall. My second point of political divide is on student loan forgiveness. The Supreme Court said biden cant arbitrarily make taxpayers responsible for student loan debt. To get around this, bidens department of education of borrowers that 39 billion in taxpayer it federally funded Student Loans will be forgiven in the next few weeks. Host you called and gave us some examples, but can you tell us how we can help solve this growing political divide . What do think we should do to keep the country together . Caller it is very difficult because the political divide is right down the middle. When one wants something the other refuses to give it. It is never going to stop until pigs fly. Host do you think it is possible that we as americans can disagree without being disagreeable . Caller the media is so charged up for and against something and as long as they are not in relation to each other, i cant. Im just upset. Host when you say the media, who are you talking about, cable news, television, radio, your local town newspaper . Caller talking about all of the things you mentioned. If youve listened to one thing on one program and then on another days dispute another they dispute it. The Washington Post and times compared to the epic times, totally different views. They just want to confuse you with a lot of chaos. Host is there any way we as americans can sift through the chaos and make up our own minds about who we should support and who we shouldnt support and had these conversations with friends and family . Do you talk politics with your friends and family . Caller it is funny because i am open for opinions of both republicans and democrats. Unfortunately, i find democrats put up a stone wall. When they talk about abortion they can constantly say that the republicans dont want pro life dont want to have prochoice, that is not true. 76 of the people believe there should be a limit to this at maybe three point five months and they constantly use that as a weapon. Host out you identify politically how do you identify politically . Caller a conservative. I am a republican conservative. Host some politicians say they are trying to help the conversation get after better. The National Government association is starting a campaign they are calling saving your family dinners to help people talk Politics Around the dinner table. Here is one of the first ads pushing this. [video clip] i am the republican governor of utah. I am the governor of colorado. We are here to save your family dinners. You are halfway through your second dose of mashed potatoes and your uncle talks about the election. Maybe you are the one with strong opinions. You know you are right in the other side is a bunch of misguided weirdos, but there is a healthy way to deal with conflicting opinions. Is ok to disagree. It is crucial. Healthy disagreement means that the other side isnt deluded and trying to overthrow american america. Healthy disagreement keeps it out of your social feed. The next time youre uncle or niece or anyone else brings up that one topic that just drives you nuts, take a deep breath, be curious. You might find you are not as far apart as you think. Conflict isnt bad. It is the way we disagree. Please join us in showing america the right kind of conflict. Together we can disagree together. Host lets see what some of the followers on social media are saying about being concerned about the growing political divide in the United States. There is a post from facebook that says the u. S. And the democracy has to reinvent, recommit, reassess whether we want to be a nation of bickering tribes or a republic that engages in civil discourse. Here is another Facebook Post that says my concern is that we have party that is a cult of sex with power, open borders, treason starts in the oval office and trickles down. We are officially a banana republic. Another foes Facebook Post says i do have a concern about a few citizens in Todays Society who assume their political view is the only correct one and use violence to force their view. One last Facebook Post says i am more concerned about the two sides putting more effort into beating the other while the government bureaucracy gets out of hand. Unfortunately, you cant fix stupid. We want to know if you are concerned about the growing political divide in the United States and what you think is possibly causing it. One poll done by the Associated Press said many people blame the media for the growing political divide. A couple of paragraphs from that. When it comes to the news media and the impact it is having on democracy and polarization in the United States, americans are likelier to say it is doing more harm than good. Nearly three quarters of u. S. Adults say the news media is increasing Political Polarization in this country. Just under half say they have little to no trust in the medias ability to report the news fairly and accurately. According to the Associated Press and the Robert F Kennedy human rights, the hole released poll says that along with politicians and Media Companies spreading it but many are concerned about growing threats to journalists safety. Many blame the news media. We want to know what you think about the growing political divide in america and possible solutions for the growing political divide. Lets go to michael calling from pittsburgh. Caller thank you so much, jesse, for taking my call. This is very important to me. I think it is a great topic. I believe with many of the people that the media is causing the problem. I believe the last caller. There are examples of the media extorting things. Watch the Trump Inauguration speech. In 2016 he said he would unite the country and wanted to serve all americans, not just ones who voted for him. He wanted to get jobs out there and improve trade and in a certain way not allowing the china the chinese or another country having the leg up on us. It is things like that. The media after that said he was a racist. They called him a racist. There was no evidence that in the speech. Then you talk about roe v. Wade and the medias portrayal of that. They say the Supreme Court is trying to take away womens rights. That wasnt the issue. All you had to say was the Supreme Court went overboard and that was not estate issue. Was not a states issue. They said it was going to be up to the states. The voters should decide how abortion should be handled in their states as opposed to a panel of nine judges. You go to the border, and the weight everybody and the way everybody said there is no problem at the border. Ever but at the Mainstream Media was saying there is not an issue down there. If you are watching fox news or something that, you can see from the very beginning that it was a very big issue. They were letting people in by the boatload. And yet they would not report that. And yet they said fox is lying. Do they think fox is staging this like they are making an epic movie . It was right in front of your face. Host how do we solve this political divide . How do you have conversations with people who disagree with you politically without being disagreeable . Caller i dont blame the people themselves. Just like the last caller was saying, it is a matter of misinformation. I love cspan because you ring the divergent viewpoints and present both sides of an issue and because you bring the divergent viewpoints and present both sides of an issue and let the people discuss it. The Mainstream Media is not just biased, they want Big Government and are controlled by Big Government. There are a few outlets that try to present the other point of view, but it is so lopsided there is no Wonder Within half of the people in this country feel it is a good thing we have open borders in crime in the cities and all of these things going on. Host you really believe other americans think it is good that there is crime in the city . Caller no, but they werent aware of it for such a long time and they dont understand the underlying cause which is brought about by people who want anarchy in this country because that will force people to look to government to solve the problem. So many of our problems are not solved by government. They are solved by americans who want to do the right thing. Host who do you define as the real americans in that conversation . Caller think anybody that looks at these issues objectively. I think you have to look at the founding of this country. Dialogue is good and people want free speech. That was one of our founding bulls and now the Democratic Party is actually that was one of our founding principles and now the Democratic Party is actually saying it is not. They are trying to restrict free speech. Everythings democracy is so great. If democracy is so great, it is a general overall term but we have a representative form of government where we have to elect representatives to do what we hope is the right thing. If you have democracy, you have complete chaos. Host lets go to diondra who is calling from minnesota. Caller disagreements are more about what is your favorite color, not someones rights. Number two, want to say there is so Much Division going on in this country because it has always been there. They are finally unmasked and they have opened the pandoras box of fascism and they cant put it back. We need more democracy, not less. They are afraid of democracy. They want to stop democracy. I am sorry, you cant have democracy i am in anarchist. You just need to have a little more regulation and less iraq receipt. At the end of the day, these people dont want it. If you want to stop it, we need antifascist action. If you dont think is going to stop things, i am sorry, you are cuckoo bananas. Host let me ask you what do you consider antifascist actions . Caller voting, protesting, doing what you need to do to stand up for your rights in your community, running for local office. Getting the things you want in your area so you can have a nice area that doesnt have fascism and you can have more local government that support your views. Host is that not just participating in the american democracy . Caller it would be, but a lot of people dont think that. People think that is not american democracy. Running for local government they think is bad and we should just run away from that and do whatever the commander in chief says. If it is trump, they will do what he says because they believe in the fascist dictator. We need more democracy and less of what trump is trying to do and ron desantis and the gop are trying to do. We need more stuff to be more democratic. Host how do you have that conversation with people who are of a different political persuasion . How do you talk to people and how do you listen to them when they say what is better for the country . Im assuming everyone just wants whats best for the country. Caller exactly, you talk about workingclass issues. You talk to them about being working class and that taxes are getting high and the rich people are taking more from you. You sit back in talk about sports and music and then Start Talking about things that you arent getting enough money at work and your boss is taking more and you should join together that we are a working class together. Talk to your neighbor. You might not agree at first but sprinkle in your view every now and then. Maybe it is ok to tax the rich and have universal health care. You keep helping them see because seeing is believing. I am i dont get a lot of respect. They want to take away my rights. They think that they can do it. Young people are going more you just have to talk to people kindly at first. Talking to people about the workingclass issues that affect you and your friends. Just say, my boss is really hard on me and i bet your neighbor will sate my boss is hard on me too. Dont just say i dont like my boss because he is having too much power and i am not getting a lot. Make it about you guys. Host lets go to sharon who is from oregon who is calling from oregon. Caller mi on am i on . Host you are on. Caller i want to about the family level and on a National Level. On a National Level i think the media on both sides go overboard just presenting their thing. If you look at fox or msnbc or cnn, if you look at your local news you get more centered. It is easy to blame it on the media. It is people. If they get angry and started yelling at each other over issues instead of dialoguing with spect, that is up to the person themselves. But i am not going to blame it all on trump, when you look at his rallies, they are angry and hate the other side. It has exacerbated why we are where we are. Then a family level, we have when rather who is a republican, which is fine. And we have talked and every time he brings up politics, you can almost see in his face he wants an argument. It is really difficult. You want to keep it lowkey and he will Say Something like federal tax dollars shouldnt pay for abortions. And i say that is exactly right. And then he will say schools arent testing kids. And i would say i was a teacher and yes they are. When you say the facts he gets real angry and starts putting on his phone to find something to beat you down with. Host how do we get it back to what it used to be. Because thanksgiving is coming up soon and family dinners will be happening soon. How do we do that without getting angry and tried to do an exchange of ideas rather than a one upmanship . Caller that is a good point. What we have done is and i will tell you on the democrat side of the table when he goes off, we just say that is an interesting idea, i can see your point and we dont say anything else. Host but is that really engaging with his ideas or pushing him aside . Caller Say Something to just get a discussion going, it goes into the one upmanship, i have to win. My side has to win. You can have no valid point. We have just started saying, that is interesting. Or we will switch up the phrases because you dont want to be demeaning. Oh yeah, i hear that a lot. Just because if you say anything that does not completely fit down the line of their thinking, even if it is way off, Something Like federal dollars paying for abortions. If you say that it isnt allowed, you are down the race track and you are going to be be to death. It is sad because i see democracy, as a teacher they would always ask who you are voting for. I said if you can guess who i can vote for, we are in trouble because i am teaching you english. I firmly believe even he has a right to vote for whoever he wants. It is he comes into the gathering like man, i know you guys dont vote like me and im mad. It is that anger that you see if you watch any of the rallies. There is a fervor anger. And sometimes on cspan, you will hear and i get real upset when i hear democrats talk about, they ought to go away or kick them out or they are people or whatever. That kind of talk is not good on either side. That is what is really hurting. You can blame it on the media but when it comes out of your mouth and you say you are evil, you are bad, all of this, all of you are baby killers and fascists, when people Start Talking like that, there is no all of you. Everybody is different. They are individuals. Even republicans have different issues they follow. We have to start realizing that people are people because they are in a Certain Party and you have to i dont know, that is what it is now. And i really dislike the talk when i listen to cspan and people come on and they are just all democrats are socialists, communists. First of all, as the teacher, do you know the definition of a communist or socialist . We have to quit labeling people in broad general terms. And if they are in that general term we dislike them. Host along the same line as the caller was talking, there was a survey done by a group using pew research that says partisan animosity between both parties is on the rise. In 1994, a set of republicans so they had a very unfavorable view of the Democratic Party. In 2022, the number jumped from 21 to 62 . Same way on the democratic side. In 1994, 17 of democrats said they had a very unfavorable view of people in the republican. In 2022, that jumped although it up to 54 . This was a poll done solely partisan. This shows people in one party have an extremely unfavorable view of people in the other party, even though we are all americans. The question is, are you concerned about this type of political divide in the United States . What can we do to have a better view of people on the other side of our political persuasion, whatever that may be . We are all americans theoretically moving in the same direction. Lets talk to curt calling from mount union, pennsylvania. Caller good morning, jesse. How are you this morning . Host i am doing great. Caller there is definitely a divide and the reason for the divide is either side wants to force the other side into their ideology. And the way they do that is they try to enact legislation to force you to do what they think is right. Once we start backing off the cultural issues in trying to legislate through cultural issues and things of that nature in trying to force people to do what we want them to do and allow them to enjoy the American Freedom we can all be americans again. We can discuss all of our differences without trying to force each individual to do what we feel is right. Host how do we do that . Caller week back off. The legislatures have to disengage from cultural issues and start engaging in the humanitarian issues, the issues of defense, those things. We have got to stop trying to culturally appropriate everybody. This is my side, what you need to do is believe the same way i do and if you dont, im going to enact a law to force you. Once we stop enacting laws and causing people to apprise because now it is a law to force you to do something, once you stop that and allow americans to discuss things and they can disagree and have their own way of doing ends and that is ok. It is not necessarily illegal to do that, that is part of the American Freedom to do that. Concentrate on the issues that affect both of us as human beings. Host oh do you have the political conversation how do you have the political conversation with your friends . I do have these conversations how do you have these conversations with the people you work with and live with . Caller they have a particular cultural issue they want to discuss, i like to talk about it. I dont say what we need to do is get a law to stop you from thinking that way. If they have an opposing view, i want to hear their opposing view because they might present some things that ive never considered. If you try to shut them up and take away their freedom of speech or legislate away their freedom, i can never be completely sure that the way i feel or think is correct if i cant hear everything. That is the wisdom and freedom of speech and the freedom of this country. You have to have the ability to hear everything. You have to have the ability to experience and do the things you want to do. Then we can pick the best way forward. If we turn a blind eye to either side, then we have lost. Host what happens if the rest of the country picks away at forward you personally dont agree with . Does that mean the process didnt work or it did work but didnt advantage you that time . Caller process did work and it didnt advantage me and could be part of the evolution. As long as they dont quiet my voice and allow me through example or through speech to express my viewpoint. Maybe at some point, and as a country we have seen it and i have seen it as ive lived over the years, it is like a pendulum , it swings back and forth. What you have to do is be patient and live and express yourself the way you see fit. But you should not be prevented from doing that. That is your freedom as an american. Host pew research had another poll that i want to bring to you as to how we relate in the political divide. One of the things that has happened is Americans Trust in other americans has declined over the years according to this pew research poll. This shows the percentage of americans who say they have either a great deal, good deal or not very much trust in other americans when it comes to making political decisions. As you can see here, very few americans have a great deal of trust in other americans and their wisdom to make political decisions. The largest numbers from april 2021 to april 2023 show americans dont have much trust and confidence in the wisdom of other americans in making political decisions and that number thats increasingly higher as we go along. In april 2021, 55 of americans said they did not have very much trust or confidence in the wisdom of other americans. That jumped to 57 in march 2022. Just this april, it jumped all the way to 63 of americans say they do not have confidence and trust in the wisdom of other americans when it comes to making political decisions. How do we get around this . Lets talk to steve who is calling from charleston, south carolina. Caller a tough subject. The truth is, there is always going to be some divide. I think the right word is different. There is a lot of blame to go around for the divide. Maybe the media shares but it is not their fault. Once we put cameras in the senate and the house, politicians are hypocritical there they will play to the media and the cameras. If it is chuck schumer, he will talk about the bad republicans. The media is there, but it is not their fault. They are using the media to push their agenda and turn americans against each other to back whatever legislation might be on the table at the time. That is sad. It happens in the house to. Hows democrats are standing in the way or House Republicans are standing in the way. It is just there. We have Media Outlets that have an agenda and that is sad. A lady said a couple minutes ago i am a conservative leaning independent and she was talking about the angry republicans. I am not a maga republican. People taking to the streets when they dont agree is the first people take to the streets are democrats and it is promoted by House Democrats and called peaceful protest in. Get real. There is enough blame on both sides. You just cant say it is all republican or all democrats. One of the biggest problems for me is that we cant engage and even sometimes laugh at our differences and embrace our differences. I am from the south and i am 75 years old and we didnt have the problems with integration that some had. We were so connected to the Africanamerican Community that it was no big deal. It took a while for people to achieve equality. I remember asking a girl in 1966 downtown and she said i dont care. A black lady raised me. It is not a problem at all. Everyone says the south hates black people but it is not true. I want to share a story about a friend. I worked for the government or a contractor and we liked to hire ex military people. An officer, a smart man who had been all around the world, his sister works at a plantation where his ancestors were enslaved. He retired and we met and hit it off right away. He said do you play golf . I said are you kidding i love to play golf. He said can you get a foursome. I said wait right here. And i called a friend of mine, an old white guy from the south. I said do you want to get together and i have someone wants to golf. And my friend leaned over my shoulder and said tell him i am black and my friend started laughing. He is a democrat and i was republican at the time. I had a picture of tiger woods with Jack Nicholas down at trumps golf course. I said you see this picture. He said get that shirt out of here. People just need he said get that picture out of here. People just need to take a deep breath. The racism thing is not as bad and in my area is not as bad as the d. C. Politicians would have you believe. Host there are some politicians who are trying to help the conversation. Republican governor spencer cox of utah who is the chairman of the National Government association was on this program last month and spoke a little more about his disagree Better Initiative that we showed you earlier. Here is what governor cox had to say about how americans can learn to disagree better. [video clip] right now in our country we are seeing a difficult toxic divide and headed into what is possibly the next most divisive election of our lifetime. Sadly come in many institutions and across this country, we have forgotten how to disagree right way, how to debate and persuade and help each other understand where we are coming from and why we believe what we believe. This is not just another civility initiative, not just about being kind to each other although we desperately need that. Disagreement is important, but there is healthy disagreement and there is toxic disagreement. And unfortunately we are seeing so much toxic disagreement in our country. I believe there is an exhausted majority that is tired of the divisiveness. They believe there nothing more unamerican than hating fellow americans we need to get back to the things that made us special over the last 250 years. Host lets see what some social media followers are saying about the growing political divide in the United States and how we solve this problem. Here is one person who texted and said politicians are hyper polarizing cultural issues. We must be able to have polite, civil, rigorous debate about issues of the utmost important importance. Another text said, you ask how we can solve political division. Answer, bring back the fairness doctrine so we dont rely on opinion news. Another text says National Government association is on the right track. Healthy debate aced on fact not hearsay is essentially good. Agree to disagree. Another post on Facebook Says i am concerned about the losers of the civil war attempting to lose another one. One last post says the deep state is doing Everything Possible to create chaos in the United States. This great country and the people are the only thing stopping the littlest agenda for one world order. The question is are you concerned about the the globalist agenda for one world order. The question is are you concerned about the political divide . Caller i am concerned about the big divide. I think it is more important for us to watch less tv and read more books. There are only a few Television Channels that i watch, cspan and pbs sometimes. The news on television, i would rather read more than watch it because i think there are better articles in my newspaper. One interesting article i read was our Founding Fathers i hope there were not Political Parties. I would like to know more about that in here about some of the books available about that. A book i read because i saw it on cspan was overrun. A book i recently read that cant remember how i discovered it, it is called i hope this isnt offensive but it is called ejaculate responsibly. It is a whole different look on the concept of abortion. Unwanted pregnancies could be easily solved by just having men use condoms done. It is much healthier and safer and less hassle. The point is that reading i think is more important than watching television. I think most television, it used to be a law that news could only be news. It could not be frivolous opinions. I would like to see that come back. Host lets talk to gigi calling from detroit, michigan. Caller good morning. Just wanted to say about todays divisive politics which i think is very, very, very divisive. It started with Newt Gingrich when he came in 1994 with the contract with america which he came in with a combated combative attitude and started demonizing democrats. My understanding is that prior to him coming in when people were elected to government, they would move their families to washington. After work they would intermingle with one another so you didnt have all this rancor between people. With gingrich, he advised them not to move their families. He tried to make it more divisive and combative and it has just gotten worse down through the years. The other thing i think is there is a act of spirituality, of love of god and one another. I just wish we would restore the sabbath day. We profess to be a christian nation but everything is open on sundays and people dont have time for god. I just think we lose sight of how we as individuals are supposed to act as well as how we are supposed to treat one another. Host lets talk to hirsch calling from lexington, mississippi. Caller i came from detroit to mississippi as a physician and got my green card after two years of working in the poorest country county. Not giving people the power. The legislation should be divided. It must be presented and respected at the state and federal double. Ling from the Supreme Court and legislation, ruling from the Supreme Court and legislation, the people need to have the power. It is the people. We, the people, should decide, not by legislation or the decisions. The issue of people, to the politicians, media, nobody is responsible. We, the people are taking this for granted. I lived in lexington, mississippi. People are wonderful. Everyone is good as a human being. I challenge them to come and see the suffering in america. I think the eshoo should be in the ballot box. I think the issues should be in the ballot box. Not the Supreme Court. Why do they ask the simple question the rest of the things are rudimentary. Thank you. We would like to thank all of our callers who called in for our first segment we will continue the discussion on how to decrease polarization in the United States in our next segment with Columbia University professor Peter Coleman and listen first project founder pierce godwin. And laterhe director of the policy center of the university of pennsylvania will join us to discuss how Civics Education can help heal clinical decisions. Stick with us. We will be right back. It hasd by anybody in 50 years. A law that was lost. Nobody has thought much about it. Some of the federal records retained the local Court Records were lost, including the transcripts. But i was able to uncover it. It is thousands of pages. It really helped me. On top of all the other fbi records and Everything Else that i found, that record really helped me piece together the sequence of events in washington theres two days. Shana murthy tonight at 8 00 eastern. You can listen on our free cspan now cap. App. Hes shop. Org is the online store. Browse through our collection of products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories. There is something for every cspan fan. Every purchase helps with our nonprofit operation. Subs shop now it cspanshop. Org. Weekends can spring you book td featuring leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. From feeding fast freedom test, evolutionary biologist Brett Weinstein argues that there is a mismatch between our ancient brains and bodies and the modern world. Plus, we station musician Michelle Donner talks about going up koreanamerican in eugene, oregon. Watch booktv network on cspan2 or anytime at book tv. Org. Washington journal continues. Host we continue the conversation about Political Polarization and how we can solve it. We are joined by two distinguished efforts experts. Peter coleman is the author of the way out how to overcome toxic polarization. And Pearce Godwins founder and ceo of the listen first project. Peter, how you first become interested in tackling the issue of Political Polarization . Guest i am a professor at Columbia University. I study longterm conflicts. As i have watched political rhetoric get more and more ugly in this country over the last decade or so, i became increasingly concerned. Even though conflicts in israel and palestine and other longterm conflicts, it seemed to me to take a serious look at what is happening here. The divisions that we are suffering from today have been increasingly worse since the late 1970s. This is a longterm problem. I study those things. I got serious about paying attention, trying to study them systematically, and trying to offer insights about what to do. Host and pearce, how did you first become interested . Tell us about the listen first project . Guest i spent the first half in 2013. I stopped at tema conference on and spent time with people unlike myself. For me, it was like going to africa would be Christian International relief organization. After that experience, where i witnessed abject, material poverty but incredible relational wealth despite the material circumstances. I looked at what i would coming home to. I was on an overnight bus right way that about the headlines back home and thought i am going back to the most materially prosperous nation on the planet and fight abject relational poverty. This is not right. I put those thoughts on the internet. Next thing, the message was all over america. But the key to the work i am doing now is that i realized this wicked problem of toxic polarization is far too big for any one organization to tackle. I was encouraged a couple of years later to realize that i was not alone, that there were already a number of organizations doing this work Village Square in tallahassee, florida, living room conversations at the National Institute for civil discourse. I thought what if we could have a greater impact together . That is what we found that the listen First Coalition. Today, there are over 500 coalitions in the listen First Coalition. They bring people together to find Common Ground and to Work Together to fix things they probably agree are broken. The bottom line is americans are tired of division and dysfunction. We want peace, unity, and solutions. The good news is that even as this personal pain and National Fear increases, so too is that movement around bridging device. There is hope and opportunity with efforts ringing folks together to find a way forward. Host pearce, what is the National Week of conversation about . Guest the National Week of conversation was the first thing this coalition did together. It happened for the first time in 2018 and continues year after year as a showcase and a moment for inspiration and awareness that there is hope in opportunity. Every year, all of the 500 plus organizations who do this work do what they do in this week. We make a lot of noise and try to that americans of all backgrounds know that there is a step toward that way out. 2024, it will be april 15 through the 21st, a galvanizing moment to focus more on each other and on the future of the country and on Building Partnerships across social sectors. We are all terribly impacted by toxic polarization. Host he was talking about how he saw america in the media when he was overseas. Peter, how do you assess the current Political Climate in the u. S. In august 2023 . Guest it is a dangerous time. If you look at how irate many progressives are because of recent rulings by the Supreme Court, if you look at how irate many Trump Supporters are because of the multiple indictments and the narrative around that, which is that it is a broken Justice System, this creates a higher probability of violence. We see this in something they call stochastic terrorism. You have such anger in the media , it increases the chance of people with weapons and rage and paving people who are less stable than others are going to become violent. I very worried about this. I do not see major lectures to the patterns we have seen in the past around election cycles. The election is a highstakes,. Highrisk time. People go all in for their candidate or against the other. I am very worried about political violence. I am not alone. There was a poll in the New York Times yesterday about those the percentage of americans who feel that the nation is on a brink of failure. We were downgraded to a fraud democracy it couple of years back by the economist. We are now feeling that at home and in our communities, that there is this flaw in the basic structure of how we live our lives, view the other. It is a wicked problem, which means it is not just me and my attitudes or our lack of relationship with people, but it affects where we travel, where we do not travel, who the top to, who we do not talk to, the media we watch, the websites we frequent. It is a pervasive problem. The evidence is bad. The 10th we have been tracking for decades are particularly bad, some at a historic level of hatred. That is a recipe for political violence, like we saw on january 6. That is my concern, that we are moving into a place where all of these forces are pivoting debt against each other and pulling us apart. I am concerned that there or not the metal holds. Host pearce, do you agree . Guest i do. 30 of partisans say losing the president ial election would have grave consequences for their wellbeing. That kind of fear does not bring out the best in any of us. 62 of voters here Election Related Violence in 2024. Peter made the point that there is a cyclical nature to the risk of political violence, which spikes around president ial elections. What we are talking about right now is most critical at this time, when cap you messaging is at its height and people transitioning is necessary if we are going to keep this great experiment going. Host let me remind viewers that they can take part in this conversation. We will open our regular lines, which means republicans, you can call in at 202 7488001. Democrats, 202 7488000. Independents, 202 7488002. You can always text at 202 7488003. And we are always reading on social media, on x at cspan wj, or on facebook at cspan. Com cspan. Facebook. Com cspan. The book how to overcome toxic polarization came out after the aftermath of the 2020 election, racial strife, and covid. Where are we now . We are not in the middle of the pandemic anymore. Covid is going back up, but where are we now compared to where we were before . Guest because we are now entering another election cycle, the levels of risk are very high. But i want to stress that there is good news. And that is what pearce was alluding to. A lot of the listen First Coalition, there is a group that has a website. There is a map of the United States. They have mapped 8000 communitybased organizations that are trying to bring people together across a variety of divides and have conversations where they humanize and experience each other. Some of them in an ongoing way. The listen First Coalition, the bridge alliance, which is another organization that brings together a lot of these organizations, and these Community Groups, they show us that there are people across this country that are doing everything they can to come together, reach out to people that they may feel are their enemy, but they sit down with them and realize that they are our neighbors. That is where i see. There are many stories of excellent initiatives happening at the Community Level, as well as in congress. I want to give a shout out to Amanda Ripley, who wrote the piece which profiles of the select committee for the modernization of congress. It was red and blue congresspeople who came together for 2 years and did affective work on trying to change the culture within congress. There are promising initiatives everywhere in different industries, in organizations, communitybased organizations. In the epicenter of the january 6 terror, you had these congresspeople on the heels of that come together and work effectively to start to transform the culture in congress. These are hopeful stories happening all over the country. That is the good news, but we need listeners your listeners to join the movement. Everyone who is fed up with the status quo to join us in reaching out to people who are different must, ideally different from us, ideally to organizations who know how to shepherd those conversations constructively. You go to the website and find groups in your area that are doing this. Host pearce, one of our social media followers, they say, your guests have nobles unrealistic intentions. The problem is there are some with whom you can never come to an understanding, compromise, or agreement. They going to list groups like isis, al qaeda, the taliban but also the maga. You live there way or you do not live. How do you deal with people who do not want to agree with anyone or who think the other side is that want to agree with anything . How we get around this . Guest great question. The last thing you touched on is a misperception. It is a double whammy. Not only do we have misconceptions of each other, but we also have misperceptions about how they perceive us. If i am convinced that these people are not on the crazy but they hate me and are out to destroy everything i hold dear, you had Better Believe that i am going to get more into my corner and fight back and lash out and not lean on the better angels of our nature. That is a compounding problem that makes it so wicked. This is not going to work or be the right moment for every person in america. Not all of us are ready to listen first to understand and to seek humanity across differences, but i would humbly admit that i think a lot of us are drawing that line are too deeply into our fellow americans. The circle of people that we are seeing is deplorable or irredeemable or unamerican is laughably large. How an attempt to move Forward Together without large chairs of the country that voted a certain way, believe a certain way, you might think are insane but are sincere to them . It becomes a pragmatic issue. We have to move Forward Together as this United States of america. When i hear comments like that from your viewer, i started asking what is your end game . What you suggesting . I shorthanded the responses to delusion, doom, duck and dash. Some say weve just got to somehow by electoral victory, the battle of ideas we have got to exterminate values and perspectives that we abhor. We will vanquish them and their ideas. That is not going to happen. Other folks do not share the hope that peter and i have. They think we are destined to another violent civil war. I am not letting that happen. You have also got a lot of folks who are ducking down, who are saying, all this stuff that is happening nationally, i cannot handle it i am going to hunker down with my family, my closest friends and hope for the best. And it has become uncanny the number of people who have a dash plan, another place theyre planning to go to if things get worse. And something peter here is the importance of these other social sectors. It is fantastic that there are hundreds of organizations plus thousands of Community Groups bringing folks together across differences, but we are spending a lot of our time not necessarily engaging with these nonprofits. We are in our workplaces, classrooms. It is critical. When the bridging divide movement is that we push forward the will to bridge these debates in sectors such divides in sectors such as business, education, politics. And through National Campaigns we mobilize. Businesses are supporting bridging divides, supporting the movement in some cases by investing in our collective campaign such as the National Week of conversation. I am partnering with meetings for america, which is one of our it includes walmart, target, mcdonalds, harley davidson, dicks sporting goods, and petco. Folks are beginning to look for the way out. Host lets get some of our viewers into this conversation. Will start with someone from san antonio, texas on the democrats line. Caller good morning. My name is ethan. So much has changed in the politics of today. [indiscernible] the Democratic Party estimates they are not in national leadership. [indiscernible] come to most americans is an extremist. Trump to most americans is in extremis. He called his supporters to washington. Also needs, all she wants to see. Trump did and we saw what happened. [indiscernible] this is ridiculous. And you. Host peter, how do review was with what happened on january 6 when how do we deal with january 6 will we talk about polarization . Guest it has to happen at different levels. Congress and the courts are currently addressing it. At this point, multiple people have been arrested, some convicted. The recent indictment against donald trump and some of his colleagues are related to some of this. There has to be legal remedies that take place and that when theyre due course. Ideally, there has to be some source of information about that process that our less weaponized and politicized. A big problem is you have these judicial processes taking place, but then you have news or supposedly news that represents or misrepresents them and weaponizes them up for political purposes. I am very concerned with how some media forces weaponize this information basically to get attention for their new source and also for their candidates. It has to happen at that level, but i want to bring it back to the individual level. We cannot wait for the government to fix this. We have to mobilize. About a year ago, i wrote this book the way out, which is ideas that have been proven useful in trying to break through feelings of contempt for others, particularly for other groups. That i was concerned that people do not read books often anymore. Basically, i and a group of lying former students and colleagues set about trying to do this. Pearce and i wrote a series of articles we published in Time Magazine, a series of four or five articles which document help you can do this in your life. How you can do this in your life. I have become estranged from a neighbor in my building. I live in new york city. I knew him to be a good man, good father, good grandfather, but he started to talk about his politics to me, which were extreme in my view and offputting to me. For about a year, i did not have to him. We retreated to our partners. But i decided last summer that this is part of the problem. I reached out and said, would you go for a walk with me in the park . After some backandforth, he said, sure. We walked together. He talked about who he is, where he came from. And he talked about why political values on the right resonate with him. Type text about where i came from. We found some areas i talked about where i came from. We found some Common Ground and allowed each of you to talk without interrupting. It was a good first step. I was nervous to do it, sick to my stomach before i met with him, but it was a satisfying experience, particularly walking outside. This is one of the things we find is that if you reach out to people that you have differences with and go for a walk, ideally sidebyside outside, there are neurological things that happen to connect you, but ultimately we better understood each other. Did we solve the problems . Did i move them away from his party . Absolutely not, but it did introduce some more nuance in our understanding of each other. We have met since then and we continue to talk. He sends me articles. I sent him articles. We have reestablished civility even though we differ politically. That is what we have to do, find ways to do that and have the courage to try to do that even though it makes us anxious. Host pearce, i connector this tweet on screen, but i want you to address what this person was talking about. People talk about toxic polarization as though it is some chemically Creative Force that sprang out of nowhere. It has been created and facilitated by highly paid professionals who are working on behalf of politicians and corporations. They simply refuse to address that. Some people profit off of polarization. How do you combat people who do this as if for a living, even though the rest of us do not seem to like the polymerization, they pushed it to make profit. How do we play cap . Guest your viewer is speaking to one Amanda Ripley talks about in high conflict. In the atlantic last week, they talk about the many different stories you alluded to to talk about the rise of hatred and despair,. He talked about sociology stories, demographic stories and david lead into the moral story, the idea in which we inhabit a society where people are no longer trained in how to treat others with consideration. But your viewer is right. There are some national influences and conscious forces and there are others who throughout our worst instincts. They are sowing distrust and the humanization for their own personal gain. Personally, i am going for leaders who put america and their neighbors above themselves. But first, i am looking in the mirror. What can i do to create a healthier culture in my family come in my community and my country . That is how change will happen. Our leaders responded to incentives. We have got to give them better once. Ones. Host lets start with joe from missouri on the republican line. Caller hello. You guys do not understand human nature at all. That we tweet, that guy was right on. What makes hazmat is government. Their policies, their executive orders. There were not laws passed. I do not want executive orders from anybody. That is what makes us mad. You do not understand human nature. You will never change us. January 6 not do enough damage. You guys cannot handle reality of the big cities and the way people act. I lived in chicago for 60 years. I am a tough guy. You guys are sissies. Host i will let you address that however you like. Guest i was born in chicago, born in the late 1960s. Born in a time of great turmoil in chicago, where there were violent protests, there was the democratic convention, we had mayor daley, who often attacked some of these protesters. It was ugly. That was a context i grew up in. I am a psychologist. I study human nature, particularly human conflict. I have spent basically 40 years trying to understand. I disagree with the caller that we do not understand human nature. Pearce and i have spent a lot of time trying to understand human nature and appeal to its better site. It is not that we do not recognize that there are not people who are doing everything they can to get the public angry, mobilize them for their cause. There is plenty of that. It is also a fact that this runaway train we are on in terms of political divisions has happened since the 1970s. No blood individual has caused death not donald trump, not the left, it is a constellation of things that have happened. Times people intentionally play this, including media organizations, including facebook and some of the major social media club forms that prey on our outrage and try to keep us addicted to their interfaces so that we Pay Attention to them. There are bad actors out there. My question is if the government cannot help us they do not look to the government to repair all of this. I do not think the government can. I think the government can help prepare governments. They contracted to polarize and solve problems in government, that i also think that we as human beings, as neighbors, as neighbors of the community, there is a ton that we can do. It is irresponsible not to accept that and do what you can to bring hate down so that we can get back to solving important problems. Host pearce, anything to add . Guest i will tell you about the human nature that gives me hope, that i see every day from coasttocoast through Many Organizations that are not resigned to doom in the United States of america. That hope comes from seeing americans of all backgrounds and beliefs cross the lines of difference, spent time together, see humanity in each other, and identify shared values and Work Together to fix things they agree are broken. We all see it. I hope we see it every day, that when we see that human, we see that person. That is a different vision. Something happens. I think it is how god made us. I also want to take the opportunity to we are talking about government to give us more hope. Peter already touched on some of the things happening in government but there are bridging device happening among clinical leaders. It starts with the heroic efforts by a couple of state legislators. North carolina. Representative kayla rudolph, a democrat, and kevin crutchfield, a republican, have decided to tackle problems together. They are not going to watch toxicity poison their public service. It is important to note, because i am sure your last caller and others may be thinking that is cute, a couple of swishy centers. But they are not. They vote vigorously for when they believe in, but they did not attack the people who oppose them. They posted bipartisan happy hours, golf events, even a singalong. But this is my favorite idea kayla and kevin are organizing a bipartisan parachute jump. I am hoping to be invited. These legislators recognize that the key is creating more and more of what she calls moments of being human together. Politicians define their own political interest to champion Common Ground. That is patriotic purge if i have ever seen it. Such efforts in legislatures across the country are supported by the some First Coalition partners such as the millennial action project and better angels. Let me say at which officials are desperate see which officials are making an impact, check out the Common Ground scorecard. Current leaders are don bacon and dean phillips. Recently, i was impressed by republican wake mike waller, a freshman representative from new york. He is putting his country above scoring points for himself. Somebody else is he doing that is jeff jackson from north carolina. The scorecard also includes president ial candidates. And peter talked about the work of the select committee on the modernization of congress. They directly support efforts toward collaboration in congress, such as those generated by the select committee. In the last hour, jeff our bridging divide movement is blessed to have a bald champion in the utah government. Our initiative called better. And governors are recording videos together, modeling and encouraging solving conflict. There is hope, even within our political leaders right now. And to underline what peter continues to say, it starts with us looking in the mirror. Host lets go back to the phone lines. Lakeland, florida, independent line. Caller praise be to cspan for addressing this important issue for the whole nation. I want to find Common Ground with some of my relatives. I see donald trump is a dangerous man for democracy. Some of my family members that i love dearly see him as a political hero. I understand that people deceive perceived differently. And i was 12, i had three brothers. We were playing with a ball. I say get that red ball. They said, no, it is green. That left me confused. It later turned out that all of my brothers are colorblind and i not. That helped me understand. With the future of that mr. Trump may go by the wayside at some point, but these people who support trump, we have to understand. I want to understand family members. Is there psychological studies of these people . Are they confused by modern life . Do they have a complete lack of faith in modern government . Psychologically, there is one book by 27 psychologists talking about Donald Trumps mental defects. Is there any book that studies his followers and their mental conditions so i can get better along with my family . There should be a book that analyzes the psychology of top supporters. If it does not exist, what do you think of this idea . Host what do you think . Guest i applaud the courage and interest in trying to stay connected even with the misperceptions of one another. There has been a fair amount of research on this. The reality is that you cannot put trump voters into one box. There are Different Reasons why different people support donald trump. For a lot of people, it has come down to a sense that government does not work. One of our callers express this earlier government left me behind, does not serve the. Serve me,. The elites in charge of hollywood in congress are distanced from me and do not care about my family and my life. They feel a sense of hopelessness. Zaidi, depression, Suicidal Ideation has been growing for decades. People feel a sense of despair and that they are being left behind. When you feel that kind of contempt or despair, you look for heroes who will break it up. That is what some see in donald trump, somebody who will take on anybody, use anything available to him to achieve his objectives , and break things up. There is something about that that feels great when you feel that the sister youre in is fundamentally unfair that feels right when you feel that the system you are in is fundamentally unfair. Politicians weaponize that message. That is why it is so difficult like a difficult dynamic but it is important to understand that there are Different Reasons why different groups support donald trump. The best way to understand it is to, not in a hostile or contentious way, but perhaps take a number of family that you have a positive history with member of a family that you have had a positive history with in the past, ask them to take a walk with you, but the objective should not be to shame or attack them. It should be just to listen. If you want to understand, you have to say, can you explain to me why you support this candidate or why you are ingrid to the government . That question opens people up to telling their stories and often their own sense of doubt and confusion. That is what happened when i walk with my neighbor. I let him talk for about 20 minutes. He started with a lot of talking points that came from breitbart and fox news. But eventually, as i just listened and did not challenge or attack him, i just listened to clarify, he came to his own doubts and confusion and regrets about his party. They are there. But you have to give them the space to explore those and feel safe enough to explore those. That helps us understand that there is not certainty on any site. Side. That would be what i would recommend to start out. I can recommend some books, but i would recommend you start with conversations where you are really trying to understand them and you allow them the time and space to fully explore their own doubts and confusions about their own site. Sie. De. Host pearce, any other tips . Guest going for a walk is a great one. And my mission would be to call out fellow americans, even president s and former president s. I am calling all of us in to help your behaviors and norms that will make america stronger. And i want to applaud that gentlemen for beautifully demonstrating for all of us exactly the kind of practices and norms that will get us there. He is curious. My three tips are listened with curiosity, speak from your experience, and connect with respect. While i am at it, let me give all the viewers some great first steps. After you have gone on that walk , although follow us in social media to see some uplifting and empowering posts on overcoming extreme division. And watch the short film there. You can get news across the spectrum on all sides. Check out particle conversation guides at living room conversations. In, you can sign the listen first pledge. I will and finally, you can sign the listen first pledge. I will listen first to understand listen with curiosity, speak with from your own experience, and connect with respect. Host after the phone lines. Paula lets get back to the phone lines. Paula is calling from florida on the democratic line. Caller i agree with everything they have been saying. I have many friends who are republicans and democrats. We got along fine. Once in a while come out we have a debate. Now, my nephews are a totally different story. I have two nephews. My one nephew says biden has done this and this. I do not even get to explain myself. He gets up and calls me a communist and walks out. That is what i am dealing with, amongst other things being in florida. But i think we need to put more i will say the r word regulations on what politicians put out on tshirts and merchandise. Comes that i have seen on the streets some staff that i have seen on the streets to me is obscene. I am not even going to repeat what i read. They are not bad. I think that being a politician, they should have some regulations about webbased can put on tshirts. Host do you agree with the caller that there should be more regulation of what politicians say . Second of all, something she brought up, is there an age gap and toxic polarization and or a regional difference . I want both of you to address that. Guest personally, i think regulating speech is slippery and dangerous. As i touched on earlier, we are drawing circles around people we do not want to hear from, who have nothing to offer, people that we should exclude. That is ridiculously large in a way that is unsustainable for what i believe is a great experiment in the United States of america. When we have ideas out there and a healthy, nondemonizing competition of those ideas, we can turn down the heat and find a way forward. I would not go that part in terms of regulation. I think our larger problem are the number of voices we are shutting out of our lives. Either by real action or passive action, refusing to listen and engage with those kind of ideas. But always circling back to hope. We have the innovation showcase in october, cocreated by joe of urban relaxation with other coalition partners. Enter your point about lesion on differences, some studies show that folks are more or less outreach in different areas of the country. And as we get older, get more stock in our ways. The fresh perspective from Younger Generation success what are you doing . This does not seem like it is going to work. There is hope in the students who have joined chapters of bridge usa on school campuses. But this showcase is celebrating those who are navigating those divides in their communities. You can discover their work at listenfirstproject. Org. I would also recommend the project happening coasttocoast as part of their healing starts here. Host are the original and age differences when it comes to toxic polarization . What is interesting and concerning is that for the period, there have been big bro urban differences. But what we have seen more recently is that even in major cities, you have red and blue neighbors moving away from other groups and closer into their clusters. I heard a statistic that the midterm elections showed that 90 some percent of precincts, which are smaller geographic locations, or either more purebred or pure blue and fewer and fewer purple. In other words, fewer precincts where you have a balance of republicans and democrats. That is concerning, when we physically move away from each other. And that is across the country. And some places that you might think automatically of as red for example texas. Texas has some of the most politically tolerant counties in the country. That is true in north carolina, upstate new york. It is complicated. There is hope to be found everywhere. And one thing that i think really matters and i am referring back to a conversation with paul is conversation with her nephews. So much of what is happening is on social media, often feeding acutely partisan sometimes misinformation. Sometimes we have this thing that we call a challenge, which is a set of exercises people can do every day for five minutes to fight against the trends here, transported hating each other. One of the main things i would recommend is a news challenge. What i did about a year and a half ago is i intentionally try to identify five people who differ from the fundamentally politically but who i think is are decent, wellinformed people who differ from you politically. I intentionally come out when the news breaks, when the indictments come out or the Supreme Court announces something, or some other policy comes down and immediately becomes weaponized by different aspects of the media, i turn to those people who have different points of view than me. It is easy for me to turn to the news that i find comforting and reinforcing an automatic, that is easy for me. I do not stop doing that, but i also turn to people with different political views who i think art wellinformed and decent. As one way to challenge that is one way to challenge our understanding of complicated issues that get weaponized and oversimplified. We strongly recommend that exercise. I would strongly recommend that exercise. That we all agree to find wellintentioned folks on the other side who are either political pendants or social media folks and follow them intentionally to try to reintroduce and nuance. That can help break certainty and passions. I would even say that one thing i have done this i am watching yellowstone and a show called dr. Coles, which is about a veteran in the middle of a veterinarian who helps people with animals in the middle of michigan. These are rural, mostly Trump Supporters but they are decent human beings who love their animals and appreciate the veterinarians helping them out. Anything you can watch that humanizes the other side and is not about politics yellowstone kind of is , but it gives you a sense of why people seek the world differently from you. The more you can do that, the more it will introduce tolerance and respect. Host lets talk to david from south carolina, republican line. Caller good morning. This is an excellent program. I wish these gentlemen would come back. Two things psychologist, you have something very wrong, which it is part of the problem. The caller was wondering about the Mental Health of conservatives. His points were 100 ad hominem attacks. If you interviewed more maga people and you said something else. You are trying to rationalize maga extremists saying they do not trust the government. But this is the whole thing. Conservatives are concerned about the direction of the country, but it can much less than ad hominem attacks, they are looking at exec open borders and being compromised to china and russia and the reversal of jfks call to do it you can for the country. And even when it comes to abortion, believe it or not, prolifers actually care about the unborn babies. It is like the statement from jerry falwell, which was the sin, love the center. We do not want to trample on womens rights. We would like to support them through birth and adoption. They are the victims. They have an unwanted pregnancy, but we care about the unborn. You made a good point, that people do not read much anymore. For instance, life begins at conception. That is been established for over 200 years, but people do not read that. They only hear what they are told to say, but it is science. And to the other gentlemen, if you could engage with people who i plan big bands, when you have a common love of something, it is easy to break into gentle discussions with people on the other side and have some of, but i think finding a common activity is a good place to start. Who wants to stay later and talk about this or that . I find that is the easiest way to understand the minds of liberals who do not know much about science or even the fact that the first Civil Rights Act were republican. The whole idea was taken by lbj with his great society. Host peter . Guest i appreciate your comments and youre engaging with us. I misspoke. If you understood me is referring to Mental Illness in conservatives as being a problem, i did not mean to say that. Trends around Mental Illness cut across political differences. We see higher rates of suicide in younger people. Part of what happened was the opiate academic. Corporate epidemic. Corporations targeted Rural Communities where workingclass people would get addicted to opiates. We saw death rates skyrocket in these communities. There is a sense of suffering of different types but it cuts across political differences. I also would say that i am not talking about conservatives. I am used to seeing major distinctions between conservatives and maga republicans. There is a different belief system operating there. Those are important internal group differences. We have to acknowledge them. The same happens on the left. You have extreme and moderate progressives. I will recognize and celebrate common activities. I think that is critical. One of the shout outs is that the group conversions and the Rockefeller Brothers have been bringing together volunteer organizations across the country the ymca, the International Rescue committee, habitat for humanity all these volunteer groups that do good things in communities. What they have been doing is talking about are there ways that you can intentionally bring together people who differ to continue to do what youre doing . That has proven to be an important thing. These are just people trying to engage with their community. These organizations are trying to be thoughtful about doing this in ways that best bring different people together in service of a common good . That is a brilliant strategy. It speaks to what you are talking about, focusing on common activities. Host only about a minute left. In the last word . Guest i appreciate the point made about common activities. I heard just yesterday and talking to a republican, do you like rockets . I like rockets. They are doing a bipartisan expiration of the drone program. David, you are exactly right about asking what is the threat or common around . We could spend every Washington Journal Program until the end of the year talking about how we got here, pointing fingers, casting blame. A lot of it would be correct, but i do not see that that is how we get out of this toxic vortex. We have gotten urgent choice. We will keep fighting our fellow americans were fight for america. There is a way out of toxic division. Each of you watching this program has a powerful role to play. Host we would like to thank Pearce Godwin and Peter Coleman. We are going to keep this conversation going. Kathleen hall jamieson, professor of munication at the university of pennsylvania, will be here to talk about how civil education can help political divisions. During the 20222023, some of the most consequential oral argument. This week, cspan will examine cases involving voting rights, affirmative action, antidiscrimination, and religious liberty and election loss. On monday, we will look at the case of allen versus milligan looking at the alabama congressional map. The court voted in favor of black voters saying the redistricting violates the voting act. Watch the oral arguments starting monday, august 21 on cspan and online at cspan. Org. Of the democracy doesnt just look like this, it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work, a republic, get informed straight from the source on cspan, unfiltered, unbiased, and word word from Nations Capital to wherever you are, the opinion that matters the most is your own. This is what democracy looks like. Cspan, powered by cable. This fall, watch cspans new series, books that shaped america. We embark on a captivating journey with the library of congress that first created the looks that shaped america. The books provoke thought, significant societal changes that are still talked about today. Hear from experts who will shed light on the profound impact of these iconic works and journeys to specific locations across the country. Among the featured books, common sense by thomas payne. Huckleberry finn by mark twain. And free to choose. Watch our 10 part series, books that shaped america, starting monday, september 18 at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, on cspan now, or at cspan. Org. Washington journal continues. Host we are back and we are joined by Kathleen Hall jamieson at the Public Policy center at the university of pennsylvania and one of the cofounders of fact check. Org. Factcheck. Org. We will talk about political divides and polarization in the United States. You for being with us. Guest good to be with you. Host you devoted much of your career to Civics Education. Why is Civics Education important . Guest Everybody Needs to understand what it means to be in government. We do a survey every year that says can you name three branches of government and five rights. Many cant. If you dont know their are three branches or if you think one is the democratic or Republican National committee and you wont get much out of the political environment. At a young age we have to understand what our system is, why it works and why we should be proud of its resilience for time and how we need to change things if we are unhappy about how things are going. It is engaging in citizenship and we need to do it really well. Host how are we doing it in the United States . Guest we are not doing substantially worse we have just never done it very well. Now it is more important than it has been in some areas in the past. We have some inconsequential issues and a lot more polarization. As a result, we have a situation in elections being closely decided. It is more important that you cast an informed vote because imagine that you vote based on what you think is an issue and you really like one position and it turns out you are wrong about which candidate supports which position of a both have the same position but you might cast a vote that is different than you would you are fully informed. Making sure the citizen is engaged and does so in an informed fashion insurers that we get the will of the people. Host civics is such a nebulous word. Guest it is. Host define what you think americans need to think of other local, state, and federal governments. What are we talking about when we say we need better Civics Education . Guest let me ask the question who should be involved in Civics Education . Sometimes when people phrase that, it is a High School Civics teacher. We are all involved throughout our lives because the issues before us are evolving and changing. A coalition of all the major civics groups in the country is trying to say that Civics Education is for a lifespan and for all of us to be engaged. So parents and teachers and each other and businesses and the military and the courts all should be involved in trying to ensure everyone knows as much about how the system works. What should we think about Civics Education . First, everybody should be doing it. The root of the civics concept is that is the weight you get involved is the way you get involved in politics and we also always think of civics as national. State governments are following the same pattern. If you know that, you can make sense of it locally. For practical purposes, most of us are not going to engage nationally. If you a few of us will at the National Level. What does Civics Education want you to know . It wants you to know how the will of the people is expressed. That is not just in voting. Engage with them about what is in front of them. How do you bring to them a problem of concern . How do you get the Community Together in order to decide what is the best course of action . We have an enormous amount of activity at the local level that is not polarized. It is practical and impacts lives. Civics education at its core will be personal, educational, communal and local and build up from there. How are the representatives elected . How would you run for office . What would you expect them to do in the different branches of government . If people think when they are voting for a judgeship, it is just like voting for a member of the legislature or just like voting for the city mayor. They dont understand the role of the court. The courts have a different function but when you think about who should be a judge, you are thinking about a different set of criteria than when you think about who will be your legislator or mayor. If you understand those things you are voting differently. And when you have a problem you are seeing there is a different place to go to have the problem addressed. If you just think about that is the way of Civics Education happening and that is the way it matters. All of these other layers are important and affect us but where can you make the difference . At the local level and that is where we would like to see Civics Education start. Host i want to remind our viewers they can take part in this conversation. We are opening up regular lines, republicans can call in at 202 7488001. Democrats, your line is 202 7488000. Independents, you can call 202 7488002. You can text us your opinion at 202 7488003. And we are always reading on a social media on x cspanwj. Host is this all on high schools to have a certain level of knowledge . Is this on the parents . Is this on the politicians . Whose job is it to make sure the future voters know what they need . Guest it is all of them in different ways. I would at what is the role of the press . Think if you dont understand how it works and you read a typical news report, it never puts in parenthetically that the courts perform this function for this reason. This is a legislative matter and not a judicial matter. When we are in our regular activities, we are involved in a citizenry and how can we make sure we have the understanding . We are proud of having this network and it has materials a parent can go to, a teacher can o2 or an individual just interested in Civics Education can go to to ask how can we increase the likelihood that we are talking in constructive ways . What should you understand about how the media works . We have things on the website that make it easier for liberation. Imagine you dont know any of the words involved in governance and you have to debate between candidates. It is unfathomable. We have a glossary of things to look up. We have sources worth knowing and places you can go to get evidence about different topics. We need to remember that we have resources that help us do what we want to do in the civics environment, which is to engage each other constructively and find ways to act together in ways that benefit the community as a whole. Host is Civics Education a political issue . Guest it can be but it doesnt have to be. We are trying to say it is possible for us to engage constructively and there are contentious issues where people disagree but we can do it in a way where we can find whatever Common Ground is there. My colleague at the university of pennsylvania authored a book called our common bonds. It shows that when people disagree on issues, we can find ways to sit down and listen to the other side and find areas of common agreement and find identities that are not just political. There identity as americans or sports fans or parents. Those identities can come to the floor and increase the likelihood we can come together even as we disagree and perhaps find ways to agree to move forward. In the local context, we can have an actual voice that will matter. Host i want to go back to the survey. You brought it up and i want to see some specifics about what we are talking about so the viewers can know as well. We are talking about Civics Education in the United States. This is information from the 2022 knowledge survey. Less than half of u. S. Adults, 47 , can name all tee branches of government. That is down from 56 in 2021 and the first decline on this question since 2016. The number of respondents who could unprompted name each of the five freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment declined. One in four respondents said they cant name or dont know compared with 17 in 2020 one and 19 in 2020. Those other things i would have argued before i read these. We have the internet and knowledge is everywhere. It should be easier for americans to know this information and harder. That raises the question of why does this knowledge seemed to be decreasing among americans . Guest the interesting question is why did it increase in previous years . When something is in the news they increase the likelihood that they know about it. Sometimes you dont like people going to the streets to protest but when we do we learn that we have the right to peacefully assemble. You have knowledge of the First Amendment increasing. What happens when you have a speech controversy . People realize that it says congress should make no young son told me i was violating right to free speech and i said you think your mother is the congress so lets go see what the amendment says. You get higher awareness. You dont want people to say i know how to look it up, you want people to have it part of their daily lives. Notice the difference between we have the right to peacefully assemble and assemble and congress should make no law and i have the right to free speech everywhere under every circumstance. You understand what the rights are when youre on the internet in relation to the First Amendment. A Member Congress is there. Host i have heard the free speech argument for my teenagers as well. I have to remind them that my wife and i run a benevolent dictatorship. Guest then you can teach them the branches. Host lets let some of our viewers get in on the conversation. Lets talk to tom from illinois on the republican line. Caller thank you. I have lived in illinois my whole life. I just got off of the county board. I was on that for 18 years. I am informed. I watched cspan, fox news, cnn, and i even watch msnbc, and i compare the amount of reporting that goes on. Of the inks that was reported about the university of pennsylvania was the chinese gave you 50 million. And then biden had an office and there are government papers there. The thing that is bad in this country now is there is no Justice System that takes these things on an equal basis. I have respect for colleges might daughter is a professor at the university of illinois. The thing that is frustrating about the whole thing being on the county board is we were regulated by the federal government. When obama was president we had to buy these Voting Machines which cost us a fortune and we still had the biggest turmoil of voting we have ever had. It cost us, i cant remember, 4 million to buy the machines and we were supposed to hire someone who knew how to run them. Why have a problem with is we are not being led by our. This is what i liked about trump , we are a regulation nation. One of the things trump said was when the democrats were complaining that he didnt hire enough people to make the government run and he said, i looked around and there were some people who were here for 30 years. Being on the county board i see people there who never did anything. So that has to change. I dont know how you are going to change it, but the democrats are not going to change it. Host go ahead and respond. Guest thank you for serving on the county board. One thing to want to make sure everyone knows at the local level is there are ways to be involved in government that dont involve running for the president of the United States or a u. S. Senator. At service at the local level is important and people who represent the interests of their Community Requires time to do it well. Many people dont understand the opportunities that are there or the importance of doing it. We hope Civics Education will increase the understanding of why it is important. I cant speak to the issues about Voting Machines in your area, but i would be surprised if locally mandated elections if you were told by the federal government you had to buy the machines. The Voting Machines across states had integrity and there was concerned about ensuring there were paper ballot backups of votes so would we would be able in case of a controversy to tabulate. It is important that elections be run carefully at the local level because if you dont leave your vote counts then you undercut the democracy and make it difficult to make anything work. If your vote doesnt count, why should you will why should you vote . It makes it harder when we have a close election in each side says that was awfully close. They try to make it more likely to say the machines had integrity and we have paper ballots as a backup and we have a recount system we can observe and maintain a sense of whether or not it worked well. We also have a court system where if you believe there has been injustice done against you can make your case. I think the election in 2020 demonstrated that the election system was much better administered as a result of all those efforts that took place after the problems in 2016 and before than it otherwise would have been. I think our court did a good job to ensure that something had gone on for us she something that had gone on for she had a way to make fishy that had gone on midway made a way to prove it. Discourse can take place and can adjudicate differences. If we look to the courts and said, what do they allow and not allow and follow the rules in our daily lives with contentious issues, we might have better discourse and we might be less likely to vilify each other. The courts dont let you do that and you have to address the issue. We would be less likely to rely on hearsay. One reason to understand the court is they supply discourse that could improve other discourse in our lives. Host lets talk to edward who is calling from battle creek, michigan on the democrat line. Caller good morning. I am going to comment on the previous caller who sounds like a trumper. We are still arguing in this country whether the 2020 election was stolen by donald trump. This has to be resolved would facts information. It should be emphasized there was no significant fraud in any of the contested states anywhere in the United States that joe biden won the election and popular vote. Didnt he did he win the popular vote bigger than hillary . Yes. There was no fraud. Fox news even admitted this in their lawsuit. They lost a lawsuit because they kept claiming the machines were not working and were rigged and something or other. To me, we have a problem of purposeful misinformation and disinformation, especially from donald trump, but also from fox news which is basically a right wing propaganda outfit. They are not interested in reporting news or policy or legislation. They are not interested in interviewing republicans, democrats, or independences independents get their views. It was a close race in michigan. There has been no confirmed vote fraud in the entire state of michigan. None. I dont know of a single case where a person lied or double voted or misrepresented their identity and voted for biden. I dont know of any vote fraud. And we vote on paper ballots which can be recounted by hand if necessary. We dont have total electric machines. To me, i wish she would comment on the fact that we are not working from the same set of facts. Host at and respond, kathleen go ahead and respond, kathleen. Guest the important question to ask is what other protections in place to make sure we dont have fraud, abuse and how would we know in the circumstance which someone argues it was there whether or not it did happen . One of the advantages we had in 2020 and not in 2016 were a lot of efforts by secretaries of states to ensure that we had paper ballot backups so that you would have the ability to actually check the records. Peaceable people who also allege fraud from foreign governments, they dont realize how localized the systems are and the protections are in place. What are the other thing to remember is how do we adjudicate our differences . Our court system is designed to do that in the court system has rules about what constitutes evidence and what doesnt and when someone thinks there has been a problem with the Election Court system is structured to adjudicate those differences. If after 60 court cases, roughly, answer the questions and look at the Available Evidence offer on both offered on both sides came down with the same conclusion that they have not seen evidence to sustain the claim that the election was fraudulently decided. The court are the means we adjudicate. My perspective says if we understood the civics of our structure, we would say we trust the process of adjudication and has been developed over time. There were people who work nominated by donald trump who were part of the process and structure that did not find he offered the evidence to sustain his claim and as a result the election has been decided. At the point at which the Electoral College takes place and is certified, you have two more steps. Each is preset by law and backed and in that environment if one still says at the end of this joe biden was illegitimately elected, we have a problem. Under our system, the way you would know whether or not that it a statement acceptable, whether or not the person is in the white house and jim atlee there can the white house and is legitimately there, if our system really that broken, we are in bad trouble. I dont think it is. I think the protections are put in place after 2016 and increase the likelihood the evidence was there to know whether or not there was enough problems. I dont necessarily have to be illegitimately gotten problems, our system said no, the election was legitimately decided. From my perspective, the system worked. Host a social media question said sadly, many of our politicians do not know the u. S. Constitution. How does one support and defend the constitution when one doesnt know what it says or means . Mandatory civics tests for all political candidates. Do you believe in mandatory civics tests for anyone in the United States . I know it is part of the process to become an american citizen, but should anyone have to pass a mandatory civics test . Guest i dont think so, for this reason we want the understanding of civics to go beyond a test. I worry because people can pass that test but for practical services, civics engagement it takes that we understand what is going on in the elections and the processes we participate in. We should know about the structure and not necessarily know what you need to note in order to cast an informed vote here i would like to instead say we all need to be incomparable for ensuring we have the basic structures of knowledge and have a School System that they are taught and taught well and there should be some certification of knowledge meant of acknowledgment coming out of the classrooms. That will increase the likelihood that if they havent learned that we are not teaching as well as we should that we go back and teach it. Host lets talk to ian was calling from orlando, florida on the independent line. Caller i wanted to say thank you for accepting my call and thanks so much to cspan for everything you do. I was born in 1992 and as a result i was premuch last generation to exist without the of session with the internet and what i have noticed over the past decade and a half is that i really feel like social media and the internet, it is a phenomenal tool, but at the same time i feel like it has caused a big portion of the misinformation as far as education is concerned. I am wondering, and i realize kathleen that you mentioned you were involved with Fact Checking, i wondered what we can do. There are Fact Checkers to help with disinformation, but a lot of people i know dont believe them. It is very frustrating. Guest back to the Civics Education area, if you go on line, you will find a videogame called newsfeed defenders. The policy center which i direct partnered with them to create the game. Part of what it is trying to do is teach students in the schools how to curate their own website. We are concerned about the polarized environment where they see a lot of adult disagreeing and at impasse on some issues. This website is trying to focus on things that are not political but relevant to the lives of young students. Should you post, here is a free scholarship if you give us your parents identities and whether you have two cars in the garage and we will give you access to the scholarship. There are some folks that should check that before i put that on a website. When in doubt, check it out and here is how you would check it out. The game is structured so the students are rewarding rewarded two postings that are interesting but to make sure it is truthful. We try to increase the likelihood that when people come online they are wary about the information environment but dont dismiss the whole of the internet as a result. We have the capacity to have more access to good civics information and what is pending in congress and our local community than we ever have had in the whole history of the universe. You dont want people to walk away from that, you want them to learn how to use it constructively. I am impressed by the fact that we set up structures inside high schools where students are asked to investigate issues and take sides on issues, they use the internet really well to find good sources of information on opposing sides of issues. You better understand not only where they want to come out on the issue but why people are disagreeing. It is after listening and reading carefully about multiple sites they then take the position that they are, in my judgment, more and better informed as citizens than they would have been in an environment where they couldnt have gone on the environment and readily access those alternatives. They also have the ability to span across media. They can read media they are interpreting from the left and right and they can gain a sense of the range of the debate in a way in which we couldnt before. I think creating critical consumers of social media should be the goal while recognizing we need to be wary because there is a lot of material that is potentially problematic. We need to reduce the susceptibility in the earliest ages to make us critical consumers of social media, as we should be, of media in general and information in general. Thanks to the shout out to Fact Checking. I am fond of the Fact Checking in the United States. That if there is misinformation out there, we try to correct it. People are most likely that if they are seeing the Fact Checking, they arent seeing the information. The trick in the social media environment is trying to get the corrected information at least accessible so people can ask whether or not they look at it and sources they find those have been argued to the conclusion offered that perhaps they are less susceptible to misinformation. Social media also gives us that capacity. When you search have to be able to find the Fact Checking and ask whether there is disagreement. And Fact Checking is not pontificating or is not supposed to but it is to give you resources to describe on your own. Host we talked earlier about the media and its role or lack thereof in Civics Education. We known the first freedoms is the freedom of the press. No one can require media to include Civics Education as part of its publications and broadcasting. Do you think the media has a greater responsibility to explain to americans how their Government Works than what it does right now . Guest let me give you a shout out to cspan. The American People have access to their government in ways that they did not before the cable industry provided cspan access to what is going on inside you have the full pulling the hind you in the house and senate. That beautiful building behind you in the house and senate. It provides a level of accountability that you can go online and find it. I hope that cspan continues to provide that service and i hope that whatever the Ownership Structure ultimately is at cspan that they recognize how important it is to the accountability function of the press that we see our government in action. I want to applaud that function and say to the extent teachers in schools are able to show what happens in real time with learning materials and can understand how the branches of government work. It is also important to say that there are a lot of good trails on how to understand the press. You can show material on Media Literacy in part of the civics renewal project. It is important that everyone is constitutionally guaranteed from government intrusion and recognize we want an informed citizenry and they are undercutting that instead of increasing the likelihood of that, they are abusing what the protection the constitution provided they are entitled to abuse it but one would hope that they get Accurate Information about how our systems are working and are better informed about how they are working so they can better engage. Host lets talk to andy who is calling from deutschland on the republican line. Caller i want to thank you guys. Hello . Host we can hear you. Go ahead. Caller thank you ms. Jamison and i want to thank you from germany. I want to take this abroad. As an american living abroad, polarization is the result of a failing Education System for our kids because we live in a bubble. The technological revolution, hopefully the kids will have the solution but these problems are simple to resolve. It can be resolved by politicians and local activists, media, representatives coming together for a nice . . Host we will talk to kate calling from michigan on the democrat line. For a nice host we will talk to kate from michigan on the emma credit line. Caller i would like to talk about the separation between religion and the state. What are the safeguards . Guest first, the important thing when someone raises an issue that has a constitutional basis is to ask what is the history involved and why do we have separation of church and state and how we understood it across time and how are we understanding it now . People ought to approach civics in general is to start out framing every question in terms of what do we know about the origins, and the evolution and the various cases that have come before the courts and now they and how they have been decided and why. It is understanding that the Supreme Court across time on rulings that have our understanding of the constitution and statutes increase the likelihood that we have the ability to say what is the law at the time . It is important to teach that and we want to understand those that are constitutionally based matter in a different way. One can change statutory interpretation but it has to be congressionally and constitutionally based in a different fashion. The court has overturned a prior decision. I would frame the question more broadly to say, how can we understand the origins of separation of church and state. The legislation that comes into play or comes out of play and in this moment, what is the specific issue you want to address and is it actually separation of church and state issues . I know you want a much more specific answer but i am answering in general because my perspective is, how you teach from a civics perspective on how to address a question and that is how i would address it. Host i want to read something that was written in Time Magazine and get you to react to it. If we o teh our children the principles of our democracy and the habits of civil dialogue ary to sustaining it, we will endanger the american project. Instead of building a Better Future by Common Ground, we will only go deeper int partisanism. We need to teach students not just history and civics but the virtues of democrati citizenship, beginning with the ability to consi argum with which we disagree and engage in dialogue and with deliberation with peoples views differ from our own. In practice, this givi students ate rigorously nonpartisan education in history and civics and exposing them to the best arguments on all sides of the major constitutional debates, past and present and doing them the tools to make up their own mind. Guest i agree wholeheartedly. It is part of the reason that across the decades when we teach about the Supreme Court and civics we teach the arguments that were made by the courts, not simply the holding of the courts. We teach as well the dissenting view. Are times when the dissenting view across time will become the controlling view. You get the Supreme Court recognizing that. They legitimize the legitimate legitimizing of the japanese internment was passed illegitimately. The Supreme Court engages an argument giving and reason giving to understand their arguments, not simply their conclusions, helps us understand how you argue about contentious issues. I think we ought to be developing the capacity to listen to the other side and understand the reasoning and arguments of the other side and understand the evidence offered and also evaluate that with enough openmindedness that we assume there might be something right about it we might learn from. Civics is engaged listening respectfully and there might be some merit and the alternative side and perhaps as a result is the ability to find Common Ground. Perhaps we have more in common than we realize. Right now there is a tendency to say you are on the wrong other side and i disagree with you instead of listening to what they are saying and ask whether the arguments and evidence legitimately offer a point of view that i may differ with but i can respect and say it is an legitimate alternative point of view. Within that perhaps we can find points of engagement. What we are talking about now is how do you develop the capacity of individuals to engage in empathetic listening, hearing what others are saying without starting from the perspective that you are evil and i have anything you have to say. We are tearing our communities apart. There is a perspective that maybe you know something i dont and we have the potential to bring communities together and teaching engaging in argument with good terms that you can find in common and that ultimately should find some Common Ground. Host right now, each state decides what is required for its Civic Education in high school. And then you have another set of standards for private schools. It should Civics Education be standardized across the nation so everyone is being taught the same thing . Guest i dont like standardization, and i dont like people at the top telling people down through what they should do. It should start at the local and Community Level and determine as best we can to serve the interests all the way up, with the understanding that there are things you have to understand to understand how Government Works. I would work away from most topdown models to a topdown structure that is suggestive if people put up guidelines and arguments and asked at the local level, does that work for you . Can we engage on the merits of our case for why people should understand the three branches of government. Host lets talk to bile falling from new york. Caller everybody should have to take a mandatory citizenry test and a civics test before they vote. You have so many people that they would always choose the candyman over the doctor. The candyman would give them suites but the doctor gives you medicine that doesnt taste good. Part of the issue is the average american is not also capable of understanding these issues. The american is kind of a return. Guest i wonder about who decides what you have to know if you mandate tests. We have a history of tests being used in pernicious ways. Lets try to create expectations in the School Structures that everyone coming through the School Structures and coming into the country will have the foundational understanding because we believe in public schooling and schooling in general. It has an obligation to provide that education. In general, our schools could do better if they had more time and resources. As part of the reason why the civics renewal project gives tools aligned with the standards that individual states set and are Available Online if you dont have to pay in order to get access to them. The assumption is with the Digital Access weve got to information online, teachers can have students work with materials at home as part of a homework assignment and come into class and spend less time the teacher spent that time in class exposing them to the materials they saw at home. Want to make sure that teachers are able to cover everything they need to. The other subjects are important as well. Civics can be delivered as easy as possible without putting cost restraints on the schools. There are good tools from the library of congress, national archives, the Bar Association and the pacific structures related and cspan. I encourage anyone cares about Civics Education is to look what is already there and ask how can we increase the likelihood that the knowledge conveyed is used . Host lets talk to deborah who was calling from west chester, ohio on the republican line. Caller thank you for taking my call. What a great conversation this morning. There are two points i would like to make an irate president ial street. I just finished the book about james buchanan. Congress wasnt even in form two months after his inauguration. Are two things is how we have actions that will help us longterm for a better society. One thing is i not sure that people realize the National News media is owned by paramount global, disney owns abc, Universal Studios owns nbc. My concern is that i think, through reading, we need the sherman antitrust laws to take a look at whether or not we should break hollywood away from that conglomerate. The other thing is potentially a constitutional change. At the time the constitution was written, we didnt have email, voicemail, phones. With the right to Peaceful Assembly and if people would just recognize from a civil point of view that our voice directly to our local officials or National Officials or representatives is so much more powerful if we all feel some well reasoned change we need to make, it would happen. We wouldnt have together in the streets where we are taken advantage of. Criminals take advantage, there are demonstrations that are violence. It just feeds the news media. Guest one of the things the internet capacity gave us was to break out of corporate Ownership Structures for forms of media and for individuals. The cost of getting online to try to aggregate a following. If you take a look at the proliferation of media sources as a result of the pacittis, you have more capacity, you have more. I would like to set aside the question of who owns and ask the question is, what would you like to see a media environment be able to do that citizens can do . Citizens can do to increase the accountability function that the press traditionally served . In the past we thought about the press as having special accountability role in Holding Government accountable and it does. That is a major region reason it has constitutional protection. But to function as a citizen journalist without owning corporate structured to have a media at its disposal is extraordinarily high. One of the capacity is Holding Government accountable to the extent that citizens now have a capacity to voice those kinds of concerns and reach audiences through channels that do not require the intermediary of some other very large structure. We actually have changed the media environment for the better. Host for citizens, there is nothing stopping citizens from becoming journalists paired i had a student at George Washington university journalists. Had a student at George Washington university that didnt have a newspaper in her city and she is starting. Lets talk to matt calling from new york, new york on the independent line. Caller i am 17 years old and a senior in high school. Talking about civics in young people, there is not a lot of Civics Education. It is dependent upon being taught at home for the most part. I feel like that leads to a lot of political divide. Young people get their information from with their parents say. That is where they get their First Political education here because of that, they dont know , i feel like they are starting not to realize how to have political discussions that are useful and efficient and they are more namecalling and stuff. There are not a lot of economic issues, it is more social issues among young people because that is all we care about at a young age when we dont have as much responsibility. It is more social issues which is why it leads to namecalling. I wish in history class we could look at the past political debates, see how people treat each other with respect as opposed to namecalling and just overall divide. I feel like that would lead to a much more efficient discussion as opposed to not really liking talking about politics in the classroom. Host i will take you back off of matts question, for people who dont think they have enough knowledge about their government and wants more information about civics in the United States, where should they go . Guest go to the Network Online and you will find materials from 40 organizations. It is free. Socialization matters at home. If your parents discuss politics respectfully and think about alternative point of view, the likelihood that you will goes up. I hope everyone remembers when they go to vote should take the children along so they understand what voting means and how it is done. I hope classrooms are having voting experiences in classrooms and creating debates around the education. The parents are more likely to vote when the kids are involved in those. The kids affect the parents instead of the parents affecting the kids. Host one more quick call from connecticut from marisol. Caller good morning and hello. I dont have a question, but i am glad i heard the young man from new york. I was his age when i fell in love with civics. A shot to my high school in connecticut. It gave me a Great Foundation and taught me about obligations as a citizen and taught me how to have discussions with people with different opinions because all rights belong to everybody, not just the ones we agree with but with ones we dont. I have made it a push in my family. We make a big deal out of voting. I get pictures on election days from stickers around the country and we will continue it with the next generation. I would tell that young man, cove study. Do it for yourself. It is exciting and liberating. Guest a shot shout out to model u. N. The activities increase the likelihood that you understand how systems work and how to create productive. The mock Court Structures and debate structures help kids how to argue and respect points of view of other people. We forget sometimes when we talk about civics and we tend to just talk about the classroom but the activities give students the capacities because they exercise them and those experiences, the model u. N. , student government, mock trials. A shout out to all of those who make those activities possible. I would hope all the schools would have the financial wherewithal to ensure more students are able to get access. Unfortunately, any of those are more likely to happen with better resources. Host how can a better Civics Education decrease the Political Polarization in this country . Guest if we just remember when jefferson treated the rules for the house of congress, avoid personalities. You are not supposed to call somebody a liar even if you think they are, because calling somebody a liar breaks the bond and the basis of deliberation. Gage the issue, not the person. Engage the issue, not the person. That disposition to simply dislike the people on the other side and not want your kids to marry the people on the others and not unto the next of the people on the others. If that is the way you approach people on the others, the likelihood you will ever engage the position goes to zero. Engage the issue, not the person. Jefferson was right about that. Host we would like to thank Kathleen Hall jamieson, professor of communication at the university of pennsylvania and the cofounder of the factcheck. Org for coming on and talking to us about Civics Education and Political Polarization. Thank you so much. Guest a pleasure to be with you. Host we would like to thank all of our followers and stay safe out there, wash your hands, and make sure you have a great sunday. We will see you tomorrow morning at 7 00 for another washington journal. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org]