These Television Companies and more, including comcast. Comcast is partnering with 1000 Community Centers to create wifi enabled students who are ready for anything. Quack cspan is a Public Service provided by Television Providers , giving you a front row seat to democracy. We welcome back to the program henry olson. Thanks for giving us your time. Guest thank you for having me. Host the ethics and Public Policy center, what is that . Guest its a center think tank in washington dedicated to judeochristian principles on american Public Policy and my role is to write and debate. I also write in the Washington Post twice weekly. Host how do you approach Republican Center politics . Guest i approach politics from a sense of human dignity. Im looking for republican politics that seeks to interpret the american founding and the american principles and the dignity of all human beings at the pure and as a pure come i look at the numbers and follow them where they seem to be leading whether that means good news or bad news or no news for the people or the principles i hold. Host a recent column of yours can you elaborate on that . Guest lets posit 2024. He has three indictments whole of which are likely to come to trial during the election year. He is said to be likely to be indicted in georgia on a fourth case and given what we know and how prosecutors have applied the evidence in those cases, it would be shocking if he wasnt indicted with respect to what he did after the election in respect to the georgia election. Your nominee is not going to be out on the campaign trail trying to get votes, hes can it be in a courtroom trying to save his skin. Thats not a good place for your nominee to be. Then you have the financial situation. In 2020, the Biden Campaign endemic to campaigns raised nearly 3 billion. President trump raising money but he spending it all on legal fees. Imagine its august, 2020 and your candidate has not been on the campaign trail because he is defending himself and all of his money is not paying for Television Ads but for legal fees to keep him and his friends out of jail. Is that what you think was going to be joe biden . I think not. Host aside from the mechanics of his legal issues, what about the issues themselves and how it impacts other candidates . Guest what i would ask any republican voter President Trump did not win the popular vote in 2016. He didnt win the popular vote in 2020. If you believe fraud was in the campaign, he still did not win the popular vote. It was less of a loss in certain key states. The road to victory runs through people who rejected him twice. It runs their people who didnt want to vote for him in 2016 against Hillary Clinton and people who didnt want to vote for him and 2020 against joe biden. What makes you think these issues raised in these cases will make them change their mind in 2024 . That seems to be unrealistic. Between the mechanics and the substance, this is a person who is very much not likely to beat joe biden despite joe bidens high levels of unpopularity. Joe biden is less popular today than President Trump was at a similar point in his presidency. The idea that somebody less popular than President Trump is a favorite in the election should cause every republican voter to sit up and say what are we doing . Host we will hear the stories about the potential rematch of this. Why do you think that is and what is the former president hold that much sway . Host its been clear theres a certain segment of Republican Voters that adores him because they feel that they are being mistreated by the american system and they want somebody who will fight for them area i often have agreement with that position. They are being mistreated but the question is whether President Trump is an effective hero for them and the question is can President Trump continue to get into the white house to continue that battle . There is evidence to say he is not as effective as he could have been in these not likely to get back in the white house. Host our conversation with henry olson continues until 8 45 a. M. And if you want to ask bastions, 202 7488001 [indiscernible] democrats 202 7488000 and you can text us at 202 7488003. The president received indictments on january 6 but i want to ask you better recent column looking at january 6 and you write that it was republicans that saved democracy in 2020. You talk about competing narratives. Guest the reigning narrative is that it was donald trump and republicans who sought to overturn the election and it was likely democrats to save the election but lets look at what happened. Yes, it was donald trump and his small coterie that tried to overturn that election. But the people who actually have the power to do so were uniformly not exclusively but largely republican. Republicans controlled the state legislatures and all five of the key states. They were asked by the president and his henchmen to overturn that either directly by calling legislation session and appointing republican electors contrary to the will of the people in every single one of them refused. In an in an treaty from the president of the United States, usually you say yes but every single republican said no. Look at the republican governors. Two of the governors in those states were republican. Both of them said no. Look at republicans who were secretaries of state who oversaw the election, all of them said no. Take a look at the republicans who were his judicial employees including people of the Supreme Court who could have interviewed intervened judicially. Or the Supreme Court in texas they filed a lawsuit to intervened to get the electoral votes of five other states overturned. All of these justices that now. Then you have what happened on capitol hill where a number of mike pence per could have said yes but he said no and republicans could have acted in lockstep and try to overturn the results. The overwhelming majority of the senate and large numbers of republican congressman said no. Its clear that had republicans and even a few republicans during this process, bowed to pressure and said yes to the president , we would have had a constitutional crisis in our democracy would be even weaker. Host so the indictments came down last week and it was the president over the week and responding to that making the case about the possibility still winning. Let me play we had to say and get your response. [video clip] we always put America First and respond to our enemies who unleash leftwing lawyers and marxist prosecutors. These are dishonest people, bad people, deranged government agents and rogue Intelligence Officers to try and stop air movement. Remember the 51 intelligence officials that lied about the laptop . They said the laptop, russian disinformation, they all live. 51 of them light and it wouldve made the difference of about 11 points in the election. They live. Every one of these many fake charges filed against me by the corrupt biden doj could have been filed 2. 5 years ago but they didnt want to do it. They wanted to wait right until the middle of an election and they waited until i became the dominant force in the polls because we are dominating everybody including biden in the polls. Then they filed them all, everyone one of them at essentially one time including local das and ags and other cases right in the middle of the campaign where we are leading by so much and it will not make any impact because every time they file an indictment, we go way up in the polls. We need one for indictment to close out this election, one more indictment and this election is closed out, nobody has a chance. We have already defeated the republicans. Host there is the case the former president makes so whats your response . Guest there are some nuggets of truth in that pile of something that he just uttered. By and large, thats he is not leading the polls against joe biden. Is running very well. On wednesday, he was at 43 and biden was 44. He is leading republicans by large margins. Thats true before and after the indictments. By and large, the fact is, the president has committed acts which are arguably illegal. Thats what a court of law is meant to do. They could have filed them 2. 5 years ago . They couldnt be does something called an investigation that requires time to bring forward evidence that could actually stand up under scrutiny. You dont bring a case in court based on rhetoric and heated tweets to bring a case to court based on a mountain of evidence and that requires time. This is a typical outing of the president taking a couple of truths in building a mountain of falsehoods. The Republican Voters of this country have to decide is this the man they think will beat joe biden and the need to ask themselves in the weeks before election or earlier next year, why do i think that . I think anyone who thinks about it as opposed to reacting emotionally will realize that people who arent like me are the deciders and people will not change their minds on the basis of this. Host henry olson is joining us for this conversation. We start with candy in california, a republican, good morning. Caller good morning. I just had one question. If trump is reelected, our country is in for a downfall, dont you agree . Guest if trump is reelected, i think there will be problems with respect to the ongoing conflicts. This will be a guy whos likely to try and pardon himself given that unless he is entirely acquitted on every one of the several charges, it will be sometime in the appellate process and he will likely try to pardon himself. Its a big argument. Thats just problem one. I think the sort of mentality that he will have going in will be one that will assure that the boundaries of the law with respect to staffing and Civil Service are pushed and the boundaries of the law with respect to executive powers will be pushed and that will be the focal point of the first year, not things like the budget or can we fight china or things that are the normal focus of president ial politics. Host richard is in georgia, democrats line, hello. Caller good morning, mr. Olson, as a veteran, i find it hard to believe that this President Trump [indiscernible] where are the people in america going to realize that there is such a thing is something called ethics in america and a belief in the true relation of a fair and honest book that came that took place in 2020. Do you believe that American People will wake up and realize that this guy is not right for the country nationally or internationally . He tried to deal with nato and all. Guest i think a majority of americans already think that that donald trump on did not win the popular vote in 2013 and many people who voted for him in 2016 did so reluctantly. He did not win the popular vote in 2020 and a majority of americans voted for joe biden and another few percent did not vote for either candidate. The polls show that he has 45 of americans who support him and like him, a majority did not and this is the thing i think Republican Voters need to ask themselves. Its pretty clear that the opinion has been firm for seven years and a majority of americans dont want this person in the white house. Are you going to ask them to change their minds and what will you say to make them change their minds . Will you say more of the same and doubling down . That doesnt seem likely to produce a change in attitude. Host what do you think of the current field of republicans . I dont know if they are stand out yet but as far as the attempt they are making and the impact it might have . Guest at the center of republican opinion is to say i like trump and i think he was unfairly treated during his presidency and i think hes being unfairly treated now and you may disagree but thats with the center of republican opinion is. Who will they decide . They also like the contenders. There was a New York Times poll that broke the republican electorate into these groups and people who like trump and were open to other candidates like ron desantis and donald trump. They liked both candidates but they are choosing. That doesnt mean in january they will be choosing trump and thats where the battle is, getting first people who like to santos or tim scott to decide that they do like these people and then say whos who i want . We will find out in january and february what they decide. Host before we go to the line, ron desantis did a recent interview release this morning and he talked about President Trump and his campaign but talked about the election and why he thinks it ended the way it did. Let me play portion of that and get your response. [video clip] the issue thats important for Republican Voters is why did we have those mail in votes . Because trump turned the government over tofauci and embrace lockdowns and they did the cares act which funded the mail and balance across the country. Donald trump signed that bill that funded the mailin ballots that all the republicans have been concerned about. Also with the censorship of the hunter biden, that was Donald Trumps fbi that was working with that. He didnt have control over the government so as a nominee, we will not let them run circles around us and if there are ballots in florida vallow harvesting in nevada, we are going to do it as well. We will not fight with one hand tied behind our back. I think all of those issues were very problematic but at the end of the day, donald trump help facilitate that whole set of circumstances. Respectfully, you did not clearly answer the question and if you cant give a yes or no, how of course we lost. Trump lost the 2020 election. Joe biden is the president of the issue and what people in the media and elsewhere, they want to act like this is the perfect election. Host thats the case the governor is making, what you think of his arguments . Guest i think hes right, it wasnt a perfect election. There were couple of cases where democratic justices overruled the clear language of statutes to try and count ballots that they and everyone else knew would likely favor joe biden. It was an unusual election. Its one thing to have mailin ballots but another to have dropped boxes to try to jerryrigged an entire Voting System on a partisan basis, of course people will be suspicious. Ive written many times over the last couple of years that these things didnt affect the course of the election enough to say that donald trump lost and there was no substantial mail in fraud theres no substantial in person voter fraud. The reason why donald trump lost was because donald trump lost. Its because the majority of americans dont want the man. Host surely is next in illinois, democrats line. Caller yes, i would good morning, cspan. I would like to bring up a subject that nobody has touched on. Its about the politicians who think that its ok to back up classified or declassified documents home with them when they are no longer in office. None of it should be taken by any Government Official whatsoever including a former. This is an embarrassment to our country. It should be filed away in the government archives where it is safe and locked up. These papers are needed in the future. What could these politicians possibly ever need them for . I think that the government and the Supreme Court should make it a law that none of these documents should be taken out of the government and put in the archives with no exceptions. That is my opinion. Thank you very much, cspan. I love you. Guest i agree, they shouldnt be doing it and i think there should be much stricter procedures for segregating the classified information from the nonclassified information. President biden was found to have classified documents from his time in the senate still in his possession. Vice president pence, a lot of these things are apparently comingled with things you cant take home in these busy people like you and me, they dont literally check their boxes when they are moving and people take these piles and stick them in a box and people across all levels of government. If its a classified document, it should be put in a separate pile. Host the january 6 indictment, these are the charges, conspiracy to obstruct and defer the United States, instruction of obstructing a professional proceeding. Overall, what do you think of the strength of those charges . Guest question is likely we have heard the prosecutions case. We have not heard the actual basis of the defense. You have to look at indictments like the high watermark prosecution. They are there to make a substance of their ce. I think there are factually strong case. The question is legally, was the counting of the Electoral College official proceeding as one of as was intended under that act . Was it trying to disrupt an official or intend to be a ceremony or public counting of the electoral votes . Defrauding the voters each of these things the special counsel is trying to do is a novel interpretation of the legal statute. Will that hold up under the appellate process . We know when he tried to do that with respect to the virginia governor, he obtained a conviction and the unanimous Supreme Court said you put the law in a place that it doesnt apply and they returned that conviction. It could be better if the country for the country if they stretch the meaning of these laws so far from there legislative history that the court will say regardless of the factual case, this law doesnt apply to this case. Thats what the rule of law does. It would be a shame if he stretched the rule in a way that the rule of love would produce with many people in the country with c is an unjust result. Host former President Trump is look for a change of venue. What do you think about the ability of the former president getting a fair trial . Guest with respect to people, change of law, the trial is where the illegal act allegedly of heard which means washington, d. C. The jury pool would be drawn from people who are residents there and donald trump got four or 5 of their vote. The odds are the jury pool will not have a single trump supporter. We know opinions about donald trump or polarized and deep. The question is, can somebody who actually has voted in these elections who cares about donald trump and whatever, put those feelings aside . Certainly in front of a judge and being asked, number of people will say they can but can they . It will be interesting that the maybe the only fair trial he can get is from people who have never voted in their lives because they obviously would not have been moved so much as to render an opinion as to whether he should or should not be in office. Its an odd but perhaps fair result with respect to the trial. I think he will get fear appeals but the same is true for florida. His florida case is from a venue which at least half of the jury pool voted for him so can they put their feelings aside and convict him if there is evidence . It runs both ways with respect to fairness. Host our conversation continues with lou in tampa, florida, republican line. Caller good morning. I respect you very much. First of all, they are circling the wagons in d. C. They literally dont want trump to talk and protecting america and spending a lot of money in ukraine and they dont appreciate that because we are the world policeman. The media loves this stuff with trump. They will have fantastic ratings with it. One more thing, the judge that has seen trump at the end of august, she works for the boys. Wasnt she with the clinton or obama cabinet at one time . Isnt there a discrepancy of a conflict of interest there . That way trump could not get a fair trial. Im just asking the touching, thank you. Guest there is a lot in there. I dont think any of the judges were in the cabinet and i dont know whether the judges were part of the administration. I havent followed that. I think there is a prurient interest in President Trump that affects all factors, media and nonmedia actors that makes this particular political story the equivalent of an electrical an electrical accident, you cant avert your eyes and we are in year eight of dealing with the look you lose l lookieloos. Caller when i got on the phone, it was different you can tell i am a female. Im curious as to why republicans especially republican men, want to take medical intervention away from women. Im curious. The other thing i would like to mention is that just like all of the republicans, you give trump an excuse after excuse as to why hes done the things hes done. You have to stand up and say to yourself, this man is totally responsible for all the acts he himself has committed. Look up the number of people in his cabinet and have been his followers who are now behind bars. The easiest way to describe trumps that he is a reprobate. He is a warmonger and adulterer and a liar and hes a thief, hes a collude or and he also insided [indiscernible] i dont know of any person that could stand up and support a person who doesnt know jesus. He never prayed. He has no idea how to say second corinthians because hes never picked up the bible. He has no idea. You guys have given him many excuses. I dont want to hear excuses. All i want you to do is tell the truth. The man is crooked. He does not need to be in politics. He never needs to be in the white house again. Host thank you. Guest there are many republicans make those arguments. The question is whether the majority of Republican Voters will agree with them. I dont think its a close question that they will disagree with those and reendorse the president. Thats the debate going on. Back in my youth, some people go to bars and i was a political consultant. People tend to be sorry for what they didnt again times. You dont win election five months ahead of time. If you are trying to persuade people who have been loyal to the president for good reason, thinking he is on their side or that he has been unfairly attacked even as they can knowledge he is far from perfect, you dont convince those people overnight. It happens over time and we will see. Well see where they come out over time. With respect to republicans, that is an ongoing debate within our party and we will see who wins the argument with the Republican Voters when they actually have to be serious about their decision in january and february and march when they vote. Host what do you think about the republican interest on capital hill only of the president s dealings with china were other countries in light of his son hunter biden . Guest the more we hear about hunter biden, the more troubling it is. We now have somebody who was a Business Partner of hunter biden this is joe biden participated in phone calls that were designed to produce business for his son hunter. The argument is he didnt collude to actually change Public Office but if he was on those phone calls or he met with hunter and business clients, that at least gives the illusion of access. Ask yourself if a republican president republican senator were doing that, for their spouse or their child, would your reaction be nothing to see here . I doubt thats the case. I think there is something to see here. Host is it productive for House Republicans to look into these matters . Guest i think its absolutely productive. We are looking at the president of the United States and his admittedly troubled son in some way interacting where the main course of the sons business is not his particular expertise on the subject matter but his relationship to his father. I think that is very troubling. Im not saying that joe biden is corrupt. If you are a democrat and you had these facts about a permanent publican, you would want to investigate to see what was going on and i think thats what republicans are doing. They need to conducted soberly and fairly and not bombastic late or enthusiastically. These facts if they came out on a republican, you bet there would be an investigation i think the same should be true with the rule of law. Host do you think the investigation is being done soberly and fairly or bombastic late . Guest i think the conservative media is engaging in bombastic rhetoric that undermines the investigation. If i were james comer, i would have public hearings and otherwise try not to make releases of information on a leaked basis. The way media and politicians work these days, thats difficult. We saw during the impeachment investigations where rather than treated as a sober investigation, there is constant leaks and clearly not for republicans designed to embarrass the president. I suspect james comer staff thanks whats good for the goose is good for the gander. I think you would have to recognize as republican that the relationship between the Republican Party and the media is not the same as with the democrats and whats good for the goose may not be good for the gander when youre trying to come to the truth. Host fred is from maryland, republican line. Caller good morning, you are my favorite. Good morning, true journalism is dead in america. There is no Fact Checking the sources no two and three times. If you did a story years ago on this t withhe dems working as operatives for the democrats and them using the media as operas for the government, if you did a story on that you mightve got a Pulitzer Prize but nowadays, they give it away like its candy. There is a perfect example of abusing the power. They were going after anything trump to get the distraction off whats really going on. You are one of the ones that i feel is right down the middle but you would lose your job if youre on the others. How can we turn this around . There is clearly election interference going on and there is no end in sight. How can we get out of this . Guest i think its if the president is nominated, its hard to get out of this. If you have a republican who is not the president was nominated, then its incumbent on that person to vote model and follow through the sort of country we want which is we are going to hold people accountable regardless of political persuasion. We are going to talk about whats important for the country and we are going to, to the extent there is misuse of government power and promote one partys agenda or personality is we will route it out. But we will do it according to the rule of law and we will do it in a way that is fair and not in a way where we will railroad somebody. We will do it in a way that wins the day to look at a reasonable case for this. One of the problems is that we have not been seeing that with President Trump throughout his time. We now know there were a lot of things accepted his gospel truth five years ago by democrats in the media were in fact not true. He did not collude with the russians. He did not have an embarrassing tape in a Moscow Hotel Room that was reported. There are many things that were accepted as true that were not true and no one has faced consequences for it. This is why people were fans of donald trump say if they can spread lies, why should we be limited by the truth . I think thats not an unreasonable argument but it is one that carries consequences that are not good for the Republican Party or the republic of the United States. I would hope the next nominee is someone who can model both justice towards people who acted improperly and justice with the respect of fairness and genuine respect for the rule of law that people can say this person is changing course. Host larry in north carolina, independent line. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] in my opinion, this started several years ago. It started with Hillary Clinton and trump. Because of that, many of the people that worked with the clintons put the kibosh on the newly elected president. It continues today. When will it stop . I just dont understand how the democrats can look at it and not see this. I am an independent. I am concerned. Im watching this happen and i didnt vote for the man. This continues on and on and thats why most of the people are saying we are voting for him because they feel hes been wronged. When we look into Hillary Clinton that started this nonsense is when things will change. Guest what the end and pendant voters talking about is democrats reacted in an unprecedentedly vitriolic way to his win. They argued that it was the result of russian interference but it wasnt. It was a result from people who didnt like both candidates and deciding they would hold their nose and vote for trump or hold their nose and vote for hillary. Thats why she lost. They tried to convince electors to abandon their pledges to their states. Its not quite honest. Then you have people like rashida tell you be to impeach the president before he was elected. There were literally asking the question should you impeach donald trump when he was in office for less than we weeks and the majority of democrats said that when literally there was no impeachable offense. Thats the sort of vitriol that did start when he was a candidate and intensified when he won the election and intensified even more when he took office. Republicans said that was not right. To that extent, republicans are right, it wasnt right and its can tripping factor to the hatred and polarization that has sapped our nations politics and democrats need to ask themselves, are they can tripping factor for the conflagration before them and i think the answer is even if they are not the decisive factor, they are an important factor and if they care about the country over party as we continually heard, they need to act accordingly. Host lets get one more caller. Caller mr. Olson, i appreciate your comments against the vitriol thats been out there. One thing thats in incumbent upon you and cspan is to remind these callers that President Trump is innocent until Proven Guilty and the government needs to prove their case against him. I think people should be corrected when they call in with the vitriol and an assumption of guilt. You mentioned the unpopularity of donald trump and thats been built through a complete Smear Campaign which includes things like accusing him of trashing veterans who john bolton said he did not do too i am a retired cpa and i know about the things they said he denies tax returns. He did nothing illegal. I did stuff like that for my clients. Its a complete trashing over seven years and i think that produces the majority of people who are expressing dissatisfaction with him, thank you. Guest when it comes to the legal case, donald trump is presumed innocent. You should not go in as a republican and say he therefore is innocent. You should not go as a democrat and say therefore he is guilty. What we need to do is believe in the rule of law and behave in a legal manner. We need to look at the evidence many to look at the law we need to ask if the facts meets the law beyond reasonable doubt. If you can say that in fairness, then whether you like them or not, convict them and if you cant say that in fairness whether you like him or not, then you need to him. You need to acquit him. I would like to see people in leadership positions make that clear call which is that this is not a matter of high school chattering. Its not gossip. This is really important. The fact is, there is evidence that suggest the president may be guilty and we havent heard from the defense. And nobody in the media are not making a careful analysis of the precise legal charges. I think it is incumbent particularly because of the passions this men and genders that those of us who have responsible decisions try to act responsibly and say he may or may not be guilty. There are people that are but by and large we are seeing the same sort of this behavior on all sides, are you for or against him and thats not how would should work . Host you have a new pot cast . Guest its called beyond the polls with henry olson. We interview guest from left, right and center and the ideas to get the information in a deep way that you are not getting from the media. They tend to ask the question of who is up or down but we will ask who, what, where and why. Host the senior following that, there is more from the same event with area stat, condoleezza rice, talking about the importance of the futu of the American Work worse and global competitiveness. You can watch online or online at cspan. Org. Tonight a number of replin president ial hopefuls including rodentis, nikki haley, and raswy speakingt a dinner st by ashley hinson. Watch at 9 30 p. M. Eastern on cspan, cspan now, and are free mobile video app, or online at cspan. Org. The cspan campaign 24 coverage is your front row seat to the election. Watch coverage of candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches and events. To make up your own mind. Campaign 24 on the cspan network. Anytime online at cspan. Org. Cspan, your unfiltered view of politics. A healthy democracy doesnt just look like this. It looks like this. Where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed in the public thrives. Get informed straight from the source on cspan. Unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. From the Nations Capital to wherever you are. The opinion that matters the most is your own. This is what mockers he looks like. Democracy looks like. The Vice President announced the biden