Transcripts For CSPAN Current 20240704

Anyway you can get clean power onto the grid, we urge you to take advantage of it. Our sense is that it is too restrictive, as far as not allowing new entrants into the industry. Whether using existing Nuclear Plants as clean energy, or existing renewables, that was a point in my opening remarks that electric grants are not going to remain static. It has been getting cleaner, thanks in part to Companies Like jasons, and it is going to keep getting cleaner. We dont want to curtail the potential use there. But more broadly here, i would say that it is a restrictive restriction in the criterion that is simply not necessary and could end up keeping entrants and investment from being made. Its not cost rate. The absolute right. Free, your absolute right. You are absolutely right. She i remember court where summer lee said that we need everything new all the time, and i agree with her and some ways, with that roadmap that we put out, i know that will help to put that together, that is a really great piece of work, and even there, it does note, and caution that policy at the federal level is going to be critical. To help getting this industry up and running. Audience questions, please get ready, because they going to give the mic over to you in just a second. Because i am a contrarian, i will jump in to martys defense here. Additionality is really important because it addresses the consequential thanks from book level of the omissions. You need to think through what is the durability of the system, how can you set rules so that you make sure your capturing otherwise curtailed renewables. How do you set the rules so that existing clean resources can play as well . Youre going to be that for that political durability, we think. It is a place where practicality is needed. What the exact rights approaches, its impossible to say. But we want to make sure that there is additionality so that resources are being backfilled by fossil resources. May be certain carveouts . You need to allow for some level of participation, there have been great ideas in terms of for existing renewables and that type of thing, what does that look like for nuclear and hydrogen. That is a conversation that we have which is very important. I will quickly add, dont be surprised if hydrogen is produced by natural gas, and you start to see that. The innovation is going to continue there as well. And you see that because it is in their interest, and they will continue in their own operations. Alright, lets try the audience now. I know that we have a number of reporters online and here in the room as well. Please feel free to speak up if you like. One question here. Hello. I have been working on hydrogen solutions. My question is on the main focus of a certain kind of hydrogen, because we know that hydrogen has a program that is being encouraged, but it is focusing on a different type of hydrogen. I am wondering what this panel thinks these treasury guidances might actually do to maybe push the Hydrogen Industry towards route hydrogen . Blue hydrogen . I can answer you and define it as well. Its a methane pathway where you capture the carbon and lower the overall emissions. Blue hydrogen is thought to not be able to achieve that top credit, that big prize, because it is upstream natural gas leakage. Methane is a potent Greenhouse Gas and we are looking at the second third and fourth tiers of the credit. We find that those tears are very similar to what on credit in terms of value, known as 45 q. Which lets you get credit for each ton of co2 that you put into the ground. What we believe is something that is potentially path forming, is the fact that 45 q. Is a bit more wellknown and a lot of people who want to go down this pathway might choose to opt for 45 q. As the optimal pathway rather than the more complex 45 b. If we think about the Path Dependence between electrolytics and blue hydrogen, making this over restrictive could tilt the needle towards methane based pathway potentially. That is a big risk that we consider daily when trying to optimize the credit. This is an important point, first of all. Blue hydrogen should be part of the energy mix. And theres hydrogen out there right now, it is just not being used for clean power electrolysis. There is an industry growing to meet this demand. And if we dont move reasonably quickly to offer a different path, we will be looking at a lot of messy performance for the next couple of decades. Is there a great advantage to [indiscernible] extracted from fossil fuels instead of burning them directly . I took Political Science classes, the point that you can use hydrogen with natural gas or you can just use natural gas. Turning natural gas into hydrogen to fulfill a role that natural gas can do itself, its not worth it skipping that step. But there is a lot that you can do to with hydrogen that you cannot do with natural gas. A question from online, what do you think will be the impacts of the treasurys decision . Of the recent white acp proposes to lineup the u. S. And the people systems is because we are going to want to have i think, a single global market. So was alluding to this that the eu is going to be reasonably rigidly precious about its own standards, as any European Institution board. If you want to export american hydrogen, what happens to those standards . If they were able to take a more flexible approach and not deal with additionality or time management, you would still see a market rationale for companies to move towards hourly matching quicker if they want to move to that european market. This will probably draw everybody together, and i just do not think that we were going to see that much export of hydrogen in the first years. Few years. I think is going to be into station without a difference. We hope that it will be Strong Demand in early years. There is interest in building an export market here where whether it is an export of ammonia or what have you. Depending on how credit is how the guidelines come out, it could affect the willingness on the investment side. I will jump in on that. I in arch my inner contrarian coming out. Hydrogen is this interesting market. There is so much of it produced annually and then you percent of it is used by two industries. Ammonia fertilizer production and or chemical refinery. Refining. Both of them have capital cost barriers and contractors to switching over to blue or Green Hydrogen or d carbonized hydrogen of any kind. D carbonized hydrogen of any kind. There are players that will adopt and switch over and we think that there will be a market for a money export and hydrogen exports abroad. It is not going to develop overnight but there is going to be a real market there. To weave in a little recent news, germany recently updated their Hydrogen Plant which envisions importing up to 70 of their in use hydrogen demand. That is a huge Market Opportunity and we want to make sure that the rules of the road here provide the integrity of the molecule which allows access to that market. To add one more point, are we actually going to be transporting Hydrogen Molecules across the seas . Maybe not. But what we probably will transport is the things that those Hydrogen Molecules are used for, clean fuel, steel, or fertilizer. Those are commodities which really do matter and we are going to want to claim that they are cleaned, because we have invested a lot of money in making sure that they are. It is those markets that have this foundational question of is this the cleanest hydrogen in america . Or is this the dirtiest hydrogen in america, a pretty important question to answer and be able to answer on a fundamental basis. When we are thinking about these standards and the messy beginning and then the launch, if we can land on something that is durable in that 20202030 two range or longer, we have a potential to build up an entire industrial trade system based on the carbon accounting standard which can actually build into an international system. That is why it is so important. There is so much to build on top of these questions which makes the state higher than, again, the nearterm watch of the industry which we think is important. Cripes a probably important point to focus on are the commodities produced from in like a probably important focus point are the commodities produced from this. We want to know what the runway looks like goat like. Time for one more question. Christ is said that you are not going to shift hydrogen byte shift, only two places with by ship, only to places with salt caverns. How are you going to get it from the manufacturer to the salt caverns . Pipelines . Pipelines. [indiscernible] there is a company that thinks they will move it by dirigible. Thats not a joke. Theres a bit of a branding issue around that. [laughter] im glad you are raising this because it does not get talked about enough. This is a kind of commodity which will be all over the country and may be all over the world and infrastructure will have to play a part. We find that linear infrastructure such as pipelines and transmissions is tough. Thats one of the reasons why we have to be, i think, soft and careful in how we get things going. Theres going to be a lot of freight that people are going to be appropriately concerned about. Time for just one more. Nice to have you all on the panel, very interesting. I was going to ask the question from a perspective of other electricity consumers on the grid. It sounds like an annual matching regime, you are creating incentives as has been discussed by nathan which have large and flexible loads added to the system and as we know, in a lot of markets, the supply of electricity is increasingly tight during certain time periods times. It seems like these could really be escalated from other consumers. I wonder if anybody has quantified the kind of other retail customer price packs from having an annual versus an hourly matching scheme . I will jump on that, and thats a great question, because there is not a lot of Great Research and data on that question yet. But at the most basic level, travis is correct. If your incentivizing a Hydrogen Production system that is lowtech, has limited ramping capability, and you are incentivizing that producer to run all the time, that is going to have an impact on prices and an impact on grid congestion. How big . We dont know. But if it depends upon how quickly does the industry rampup and how what kind of industry are we creating . There is potential for risk there. There was a study that tried to qualify this, it was early days, tom brown, that study did find. The retail rate of other consumers could increase under an annual matching system and from our partners in the eeo that was one of the reasons why they chose kind of an hourly system to stick with because they thought that rest was significant, especially when there are a lot of other constraints on that grade. It is something to be concerned about. Everybody who cares about equity should care about whether or not we are cost shifting. But we dont understand the magnitude of that concern. It comes back around when we talk about utilizing the existing grid or building new. Where is the permitting process that is going to allow us to do that . Write your member of congress, yeah. We are out of time and i would like to thank our panelists for their time and perspective here on the panel, thank you so much for coming, thank you so much for joining us as well, all of you. This will be archived on our website, you can watch it again and again, and for those of us watching it on cspan, thank you so much. Tonight Music Industry andech Company Executives testify before a tennis judiciary subcommittee on Artificial Intelligence and its impact on inteectual property and copyright protection. Watch at 10 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, cspan now are free mobile video app or online at cspan. Org. American history tv saturdays on cspan two weeks ordering the people and events that tell the american story. At 3 00 p. M. Eastern watch the second part of the Calvin Coolidge centennial Conference Marking the centennial of the 30 president s ascension to the white house and at 9 30 p. M. Eastern on the presidency, pete souza, the former white house photographer for president S Ronald Reagan and barack obama talks about the daytoday workings of the presidency including the history making moments he witnessed. Exploring the american story watch American History tv saturdays on cspan2. Find a full schedule on your Program Guide or watch any time at cspan. Org history. Live sunday on indepth. Bestselling author and historian s. C. Guinn joins book tv. Mr. Gwen has published several books including empire of the summer moon and rebel yell. His latest is about a british blimp that went up in flames in the 1930s killing more people than the hindenburg did. Join the conversation with phone calls, facebook comments, and text messages. Current and retired military officials gave lawmakers their assessment of what went wrong during the u. S. Withdraw from afghanistan in august of 2021. During the operation 13 u. S. Service members were killed at kabul airport. This is about three hours 15 minutes. A subcommittee. I want to begin by recognizing christy champlain. If you would mind standing would love for everyone to see. Motherinlaw, Sergeant Nicole g. Lost at the abbey gate. Alicia lopez. The mother of hunter low pass. Killed in action at the abbey gate. Coral were seeing now. And allen do a little. Parents of Corporal Humberto sanchez, also killed in action. Thank you for joining us and raising patriots, im sorry for your loss. I am never going to recognize for an opening statement. Im not going to begin by belabouring this point. They president s withdraw was a complete and other catastrophe. The images of people hanging off of planes and handing their babies over two airport malls are seared into our country. Collective conscience. Yesterday, every member of this committee and this a reported to require the state departments come up with a plan for reimbursing the numerous outside groups getting involved to rescue americans. From afghanistan. I can guarantee that private citizens by some of those miles across the world to rescue americans that worked alongside america for 20 years was not a product of the state department. Good planning and order. It was the product of chaos and a failure to plan. Witnesses here today that will give specific pictures of what was happening on the ground. That will be a clearer and more accurate than a news report that i have seen. Frankly i believe that is because the white house and his mouthpieces were lying to the American People. As they were narrating what was taking place for the withdrawal of afghanistan. Ive no doubt there i witness testimonies will gentleman straight a clear failure to predict or plan for the worstcase scenario. And we do, when we planned military operations, im grateful to each of you for appearing here today. Mans major jake smith specifically is here in his personal capacity. He is an active Duty Service Members i would ask members of the committee to refrain from engaging in political questions. The purpose of todays hearing is to examine the failure to plan and the major repercussions that it had on diplomatic efforts and National Security. This administration said time and time again that afghanistan was not a war that could be won militarily. That is the administrations words. We only do one diplomatically. If this could only be one diplomatically, there was no other conclusion, then they withdraw was a complete and total loss because that is what we lost all diplomatic options. The literal failure to plan was completely erased the potential for on the ground diplomacy and created a black eye for the United States standing abroad in nashville security. I wrote black eye and my comment when i wrote this. This is not a black guy. Black eyed does not come close to constituting what took place and what it is for america to withdraw from afghanistan. I dont know the appropriate word to say what exactly that is. Black eye is not the right one. In the words of the Administration Spokesperson jennifer psaki, the mouthpiece, the president asked for a review from his National Security team. He asked them not to sugarcoat it. He was provided with a clear assessment about the best pass for. These are the words of jennifer psaki. She said the president was the ultimate decisionmaker. He was the decisionmaker who chose september 11th as the initial drawdown date. He was the decisionmaker which pulls the people with the guns out before the people without the guns. The decisionmaker who collapse the operations and is a guy airport. President joe biden, the ultimate decisionmaker. He decided to make the decision and none of those decisions in that process, they were not made in the doha in agreement. Thats not when they were made. They were made by these ultimate Decision Makers joe biden. Americans ask after they withdraw, how could the intelligence have gotten them so wrong. But i find it to be clear each and every day. That the intelligence did not get as wrong as americans thought. It was the ultimate Decision Maker that was refusing to listen. To the intelligence being given. Again, in the words of a white house spokesperson jennifer psaki, the president believes there is not a military solution. This will require a diplomatic solution. These are the present is clear from the beginning that we anticipate planned to have a diplomatic presence on the grounds. Moving forward. Why then did we see a repeat of saigon with diplomatic personnel being evacuated off of the roof of an embassy . That is exactly what President Biden said would never happen. Because of a failure to plan for mercy. It failure to plan for a situation when things dont go exactly perfectly. Exactly as you planned this. Basic military. A failure to plan the security of the high personnel cannot be guaranteed. As a result there is no diplomatic presence on the ground today. I get in the words of the administration, a spokesperson for the for sake, United States will retain significant absence in the region as the president talk about over the horizon capability. To counter the potential reemergence of a terrorist threat. That is garbage. Any over the horizon capabilities that we have to deal with terrorist threats four wideouts happened almost immediately and have only gotten worse from the onset of the withdrawal and the decision to abandon airfield. Our capabilities were dismissed and was a member of i. S. I. S. Games who had just been released from the bottom of the president. Now, in the twoyear sense, afghanistan has essentially become a club for terrorists. I. S. I. S. Is using it as a training ground. Fighting with the taliban. The taliban has said its welfare pay to alqaeda fighters and there are now over the horizon capabilities to deal with that. It is the opposite. Our adversaries are literally gaining a foothold there. Just three months ago leaders from iran and russia and china, they met in uzbekistan to discuss what they call, quote, Regional Solutions rather than western interference in afghanistan. Our witness it is here today will be able to speak to the situation on the ground and that is the failure to plan which wiped out any possibility of what the administration said had to be the victory that was a diplomatic effort. As a direct result, in my opinion a failure to plan not bad luck but bad planning. America mourns 13 of its and we have family sitting in our audience who mourn the loss of their sons and daughters. Ive had numerous conversations with the families and what i have extracted from those conversations is that there is nothing that could bring back anybodys children. My colleagues, we have lost friends. There is nothing that can bring back anybody that we have lost. We look for solace and how we dont repeat the mistakes of the past. Thats to be frank what i have heard from the families. How do we make sure that Something Like this never happens again . We are trying to learn that we down to repeat those past mistakes. But from where i see its those that made the mistakes are still in the exact same position today. Or they have advanced. In the positions that they hold. And they are now trying to rewrite history in order to touts the withdrawal of afghanistan as a success. And what that tells me is that as of right now they have not learned anything im not going to recognize my colleague, Ranking Member crow, the gentleman from colorado. For any questions you may have. Thank, you karen mast. Let me begin by joining the chairman and recognizing the gold star family. Chandler, miss lopez. Mr. Cena, mr. Do little. Our country owe you a debt of gratitude that frankly we will never be able to replay. Your families have made the greatest sacrifice that any family can make for this nation. We are you wouldve gratitude even though we cant repay, we must attempt to do so. By conducting ourselves in a way that is worthy of the sacrifice of your children. And that requires honesty. It requires candor. It requires giving answers. And thats what i will endeavor to do with my colleagues here. In a nonpartisan way. Because that is what you deserve. Also, i want to organize command Sergeant Major smith in the category of, it is a very very small world. I was in the platoon leader in the second ranger battalion where we did multiple afghanistan rotations during that time so Sergeant Mary smith its really great to see you. All the way. I do want to say, this is an incredibly emotionally charged issue. As it should be, because of the consequences that are so high and so catastrophic for so many people. But to do this right im not be reading off of remarks here, im just speaking from the heart, frankly. To do this right in my view requires honesty and candor as i mentioned earlier. May peaks of the withdrawal and my criticisms of the withdrawal are lengthy and actually welldocumented. I was very clear in 2021 that i do not think that was the way it should have been. That the rear lot of missteps and problems and we do owe it to the following, we do owe it to america, we owe it to the taxpayer and tens of millions of dollars over 3000 people who gave their lives afghanistan, and all of them, to actually have an honest accounting of that. But i also want to make is clear that my goal here is the story of afghanistan is not the story just of august of 2021. Its not the whole story. And thats not the pivotal does not to pivot away from having an honest discussion, about that withdrawal because we have to have that. In the American People deserve that. But, we do have to broaden the aperture. Right . This was a 20year war. This was americas longest war. Multiple generations of americans fought in this war. And sacrificed and engaged for it. Four president s were responsible for this war. Ten congresses. What response for this war and frankly, honestly, before august of 2021 you have most members of congress finding afghanistan on a map, and they couldnt. Right . There is an awful lot of monday morning back now, people sitting back and saying they knew what shouldve happened, this is what shouldve happened, and having all sorts of opinions where four years nobody voted tension to it. Which i know frustrated us. Just to know and. All my fellow veterans. As we talk and worked on this and said this is moving in a bad direction for a long time. Nobody is listening paying attention to it. Thats a history in the context. I hope that we can have a hearing today that addresses elements of the withdraw that learns an important lesson to make sure that we dont repeat the mistakes of the past. It but we also provide context. We also understand that there was a long history here and in august 2021 it just did not happen on a dumb. There were years and a lot of things that led us to that moment that a part of the story here that we have to have an honest accounting of. So its my goal and i look for to the conversation today, i yield back. Mr. Crow, pleased of chairman of the pole committee. Chairman mccaul with us. I recognize you for as much time as you take. Thank, you mr. Chairman for that generous recognition. I want to thank for your service in the afghanistan war. Mister chairman, Ranking Member. I remember traveling as a number, spending days and you are spending years. We got a little snapshot of whats going on, but you are on the ground. Fighting. And mister chairman, you know, your loss and sacrifice that the both of you made, mister chairman, particularly you, does not go unnoticed by this committee. As chairman of the full committee. I just want to thank you for your service. I think the gold star families. We have very nice visit last week. Kristie shamlian, the motherinlaw Sergeant Nicole tree. Felicia lopez, mother of Corporal Hunter lopez. I used, by the way, hunters tend to sign my subpoena for the action report from the state department. They still yet to be complied with. And Ellen Doolittle and coral regino and corporal san jose thank you and the witnesses for your moral courage to come here today to speak the truth about what happened. Ranking member i agree there are many in the 20 years but the ultimate mistake is 20 years of blood and pressure with now the taliban in charge raising their flag over our embassy and taking seven billion dollars with weapons. Leaving the woman behind. And theyre sure a lot now. Where they cant even go outside. That pastor that afghanistan, roy ramani, had for a wild night and we talked about what happened. What, how it was stabilized and then went into chaos. Because one man made the decision. And that is the commanderinchief. And the buck stops here. As karen turman would say. So it is to take responsibility and not try to tickets down or back in time to see if someone elses for the leaders on the steak. This was a mistake of epic proportions. This unconditional, i withdrawing called and unconditional surrender. To the taliban. Who now have taken over afghanistan. And what is really a bad especially when we examine the cabinets days and we heard from sergeant tyler, Andrew Vargas about the fact that couldve been prevented in many cases, that is the hardest thing. I, know for the families, to accept. And i was there, we were there for the briefing from the state. From d. O. D. And the i see. And for months President Bidens warnings from the generals and the Intelligence Committee and bipartisan members of congress about what was happening on the ground as the narrative did not see if it was happening on the ground coming out of the white house of the chairman so eloquently went through where there was a Spokes Person to ham himself about what was happening. It was like a blind eye. The results of this committees oversight so far have been from the employees at the embassy. They were telling the story, they were the ones who said mister president , this is going to happen fast. They predict by september 1st, they got pretty close. They said, we are not prepared. And you need to prepare for this. Theres an old adage. This is a complete failure. We did not have a plan of action. What they say was disturbing. We did not predict exactly what was going to happen. If we did not act fast. Even with that warning, President Biden and secretary blinken bailed and changed course from the very end. Whether then prioritizing u. S. National security, safety of thousands of americans, they force this rapid it in afghanistan with an artificial timeline ed on september 11th was an insult to 9 11. It was gonna happen on 9 11. We all know they stopped fighting in the wintertime, and why would you plant it at a time to make sense . Then the shutdown of the wagner crowned jewels to see russia china and iran and the terrorists in the region shuts down in the dead of night. It was not driven by National Security. It was driven by politics. The idea that even if it dropped to 650 Service Members, is insane. And once we abandon wagner much earlier, from jacob smith, you know, 12,000 prisoners are released in the community. The suicide bomber released seven billion dollars of equipment left behind. Now theyre selling it to our average here. And a terrorist nation. And yet we made zero seems to me very little attempts to get the men and women who fought alongside the serviceman of that country. The safety and our partners and interpreters an elephant hind. To be hunted down by the taliban with the very biometrics that we created and now they can go door to door to get a fingerprint to confirm if they work for the United States. And then they were executed. To me, that, after 20 years of blood and treasure, where are we now with the women . The taliban in control. The geopolitical issues that face china, now, and the lithium. China will probably get access. Its hard for me to tell and the suicide rate is still so high. So for them i tell them it was worth it because you made this country safe for 20 years. The chair of the Homeland Security committee, we stopped a lot of external operations and because men and women like we do in your sons and daughters were there getting that intelligence to make this country safe. So i wanted again to thank the family for being here. I cannot imagine the grief that you have. But i can tell you that we are going to what happened. We are going to uncover, because transparency and accountability is very important to me. And i think that to all members of this committee. And we want accountability. And i will not rest until we get to that and i promise you that while the president wants to sweet it sweep this under the rug that i will never forget what happened. And i will hold people accountable and we will on this committee, ensure that Something Like this never happens again. In the United States of america, the greatest country in the world. So i want to thank the chairman for holding this hearing. Then i yield back. Thank, you chairman. A little bit of procedure that we have to do here. Gentlemen, first of all i ask that the following members on the dais for participating in todays hearing should be able to attend. Gentlelady from new york, gentleman from pennsylvania mr. Fitzpatrick. Gentleman from texas, mr. And gentleman from arizona mr. Crane. Gentleman from wisconsin, gentleman from indiana, gentleman from texas mr. Gonzales. Gentleman from iowa, mr. Nunn. Without objection, so were. There are a lot of folks from the military they want to speak to you all. Other members of the committee are reminded that open states are submitted for the record. Were pleased to have with us the panel of witnesses. Important topics reported hearings. The answers to many questions. Former chief of staff for the special Operations Command central. Also bring in those capacity. Strategic planning initiatives to protect and violent extremists. Involved in the withdrawal planning for afghanistan in 2021. He was previously deployed in afghanistan. During the initial invasion. As part of tax force from the literal beginning of the war in afghanistan to the literal end. Colonel chris burr, the as a west point graduate and combat leader and a retired army colonel. Hes also the founder of the safer Six Foundation which he founded to honor the six paratroopers from his unity were killed in action in afghanistan. Bravo. Commit Sergeant Major jacob smith served for 14 combat tours since the port of operation and freedom operation, freedom sentinel. Because military decorations and awards include the legion of merit, and the purple heart. He was also the senior enlisted leader, responsible for shutting down the bases in afghanistan during the withdrawal. Thank you for being here today, your fulsome will be made part of the record, and ask each of you to keep your remarks for five minutes to ensure all of us have time for questions. I now recognize colonel comer for your opening statements. Good morning. I want to start by thanking chairman mccaul, chairman matt, Ranking Member crow, and members of the committee and subcommittee. I also want to thank the members of the committee that served afghanistan. Special thanks to the gold star family members who were here in afghanistan. I appreciate this today. Michael, the goal of my testimonies to help the committee understand how the administration into the military planning process functions. Throughout afghanistan, withdrawal. Illuminates points of failure that do the effort. Me were aware of the terrible objects over departure and other failure in afghanistan. My hope is that this testimony provides clarity, quality about what works, what feels and i will get avoid making the same mistakes in the future. It is important to acknowledge our three strategic objectives and and states for the withdrawal. The first is to maintain an ongoing diplomatic presence. The second lesson to support Afghan Security portions and people in the government. The third was prevent afghanistan from once again becoming a safe haven for terrorists. We were not successful. Separating our Planning Efforts into two categories. First, strategic decision failures and second, the planning process on mission execution. Four critical strategic decision failures set the conditions in the environment for the entire withdrawal. First, failure to follow the doha agreement. Fundamentals of the dormant were seven conditions with the taliban had to means to trigger our full withdrawal from afghanistan. An agreement only works if both sides participate. The taliban failed six or seven conditions, for example one key provision was a reduction of violence by both sides. We greatly curtailed our support for the afghan forces. Weakening their offensive capability. While the taliban increase their attacks by up to 70 . Yet we still began a withdrawal. Giving no incentive for the taliban to follow any of the doha argument provisions. Therefore, both sides failed. The taliban to follow this basis of the agreement and we failed to enforce the agreements. The statement we held up our end of the bargain ranges following naive exclusive partner never tried or intended to support the agreements. Second, selective intelligence line. Senior decisionmakers rely heavily on intelligence. To make the right decision. Both for what to do, and went to do it. The Decision Makers, the trump they fall into, it selectively choosing intelligence to support their favorite course of action rather than letting the intelligence and shift their decision. The five month full retrograde operation with a transition of power to a questionable Afghan Government only makes sense if you believe the taliban will not threaten the outcome and the Afghan Government is ready to leave. The Administration Made that determination based on intelligence that overestimated the Afghan Governments capabilities and wish the way the talibans capabilities. There was a very little evidence to suggest that the Biden Administrations plan would work and a Mountain Range of evidence. To suggest the plan would fail. General milley, general miller in general mckenzie all recommended not withdrawing until the doha room and conditions were met. The seasons experts were ignored, and the bestcase scenario plan to withdraw immediately started the domino effect passing that timing. The withdrawal window made in september 21 was planned during the peak of the wellknown afghan fighting and the taliban rather strongest and most aggressive and logistically capable during this time period. Why would we leave the Afghan Governments vulnerable to the talibans strongest advantage . Why did the tactically meaningless 20 Year Anniversary of 9 11 drive a timeline . Ripping out u. S. Military support with little to no warning at the height of the summer fighting season, leading to disastrous results . With the aggressive taliban on the march, you wonder pointed afghanistan suffered its highest civilian casualty count on record. Not because of International Military action but because of afghan on afghan violence. Number four. But unlimited time for d. O. D. And inter agency to fully plan and execute the withdrawal mission, and subsequent in support the election. The military has a planning maxim. The third time to, plan two thirds time to reverse before we execute the operation. There was no time for traditional military planning to include looking at worstcase scenarios in real detail. To me, and the september timeline we have to plan immediately and executed now. Prudence and patients were replaced by speed of action without the time to study the consequences and mitigate those risks. Shifting to the plant, the bottom line is the administration controls how we withdrew and when we withdrew. Making them the majority stakeholder of many guilty parties. In the failure to come afghanistan in the current taliban rule. How the plan was chosen. The new administration discussed between february in april of 2020, while the National Security council. Notice for a operated the best experience divisive form or actions that provided the administration distinct options based on group level, timeline, the conditions and and states. The president s decision to wait and enjoy the best military advice and execute an immediate military withdrawal was a shock and a brit awakening for all the planners. There was a sense of dread and cynicism based on the timeline and the enemy threat. Given the strict guidance, they executed a fast retrograde to provide the best objections for Service Members, reducing their exposure to any potential enemy action. It would impress them in scope and scale. Achieving success by mid july. The unintended consequence of an unannounced an immediate departure of a trusted ally was demoralizing, impacting at the height of a season. The brutal military collapse, those that state and fought other reinforcements and resupplied or hot abandons, billing them to be captioned or by the taliban. I highly support watching the documentary retrograde which catapults this horror firsthand. By mid july, and the success of all of our military, the taliban triple the number of districts they control. From 78 over 200. And just two months. They achieved a reversible momentum. Ultimately cobbling in the next month. Well the income was hyper focused on executing the withdraw, the nfc level tabletop exercises lacked the granular details required to identify of the ceo and the state department broke in two special projects that would directly leads to the humanitarian crisis at that the hr gave. Again, our military executed over 120,000 u. S. Citizens. The largest in u. S. History. However, the afghan allies planned to stay to around the government. Could not secure visa. To leave the country were trapped with their families in a chaotic and popup ad hoc groups like bumble express and the afghan evac and actual networks sprung up to help our afghan friends, when our government failed and abandon our allies and i provide a firsthand account of the testimony of Brigadier General chief which really experienced as an example. It totally becomes clear that our hasty actions are setting the conditions for the Afghan Government collapse and the taliban slingshots to cover. And the loss of 20 years of progress for the afghan people. In conclusion fighting a war in establishing a sovereign governments means moral responsibility to end the conflict and withdraw our military in a deliberate and responsible manner. We failed and the enemy rules afghanistan and we owe our gold star family members and combat victims and their families and our allies and the current bill payers, many women still trapped in afghanistan under the heel of the taliban, especially the women in the girls, the full accounting of our missteps and a commitment to never letting this happen again. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I look for trying to your questions. Thank, you. Darnell and i recognize colonel kolenda for your opener. Thank you so much for the opportunity and the honor to be here. I also want to recognize our gold star families. And im devastated by the loss of what happened at the and were talking about a different date, its a very important day for me. 16 years ago today. I was involved in the biggest fire fights in 450 data points. In afghanistan. Hundreds of insurgents bikers attempted to trap in the valley floor. And Eastern Europe stand province, border pakistan. Staff are pretty ordering a place to employ his squad against the enemy. He was shot and killed. He was awarded a bronze star for valor. It is outside of indianapolis indiana. A few minutes later captain tommy boston, no major tom bostic, was leaving this company and his command post came under overwhelming attack. He directed members of his command post to a different position and can continue taking the fight to the enemy. Counterattack by fire, this large enemy force. Killed by a rocket propelled by and he was awarded a distinguished Service Cross for his actions that day. We have lost four soldiers, that is arlington, 87 65 is originally from texas. We lost four other soldiers in a deployment. Last chris faye for, solving nebraska, Sergeant Adrian hike. In iowa. The Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery out side of chicago, illinois, and captain davis morris who is buried in minersville, pennsylvania. Watching the collapse of afghanistan in august of 2021 is number motions just like everybody else here. I watch with sadness with the attack on abbey gate and 13 of our Service Members lives. I was angry. We have been at this for 20 years. Spent over two trillion dollars, more than 2300 Service Members killed and tens of thousands seen and unseen. And it all came crashing down. I was disgusted. Discussed now in the Afghan Military commanders are gaining new soldiers that will take the pay. They were selling their soldiers and ammunition on the black market. Thats a part of the cryptography that has become the Afghan Government. To see the fact that afghan senior officials seem to take it on this room. And i was disappointed. Disappointed another horror and in disaster. In vietnam, iraq, afghanistan, one disaster is a horrible accident. Two disasters is a tragic coincidence. Three disasters, the large scale interventions fighting insurgency. It is a disturbing trend that suggests that we are not learning from experience. The fact there were this zerosum a victory, what were getting wrong about more, and the repeated areas, the chronic errors that we make in each one of the policy strategies i increasing the idea that worsen into disaster. The troops fight valiantly, exactly what theyre told, to a very high standard. Policies and strategies. Are not worthy of their sacrifice. And thats got to change. I agree that we have an opportunity to repeat the mistakes that are in the past. If we dont address the policies and strategies here that we continue making, then we are likely drove a fourth disaster in our next military Major Military intervention and that i find totally unacceptable. In my written testimony i talked about the immediate causes of the collapse in afghanistan and i also to address the systemic failures of their comment to the three. And also some low cost high payoff reforms that we can make today that reduce the risk of another disaster well increasing the probability that theyll be responsible in next conflict and delighted it take questions about that during the q a. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Thank, you colonel. When you said very much stuck with me in my mind. Too often the policy not worthy of the sacrifice. Make sure that it always is. I think were all united in that. I never recognized for your opening statement. Members of the committee it is an honor to build coming today and speak to you. And honor to be in your presence. My name is command Sergeant Major jake smith. My ranking title, to define myself and my position, is because of this matter. I testified before you nots official president of the United States army but as i must preface my testimony by making it abundantly clear that i am not here to explain why any organization or individual results of our nation days of afghanistan. It is not my place is a soldier to do so. It is merely my duty to present this committee with the facts i know to be true so you may make a well informed station. I want to make it know that i have little insight into the overarching Strategic Planning of the afghanistan withdrawal. My area of expertise comes from the Tactical Planning and execution of the bottom air base. And a recommendations are made to members of the u. S. Embassy regarding a noncombatant evacuation. Ill stick to the facts and circumstances i was personally witnessing. In my personal opinion. I very respectfully ask that questions that you ask speak to the fact of the matter and shy way from personal beliefs or opinions you may hold. From october 11th 2020 into july, 2021, i served as the areas group of afghanistan or asked to command Sergeant Major. The duties and responsibilities of esg included all based life support functions for the remaining nine u. S. Military in afghanistan. These functions included building down the facilities, public, works sanitation emergency response. A particular point testimonies my understanding of the life support capabilities of and in may 2021 i was given the additional duty to serve as the senior listed advisor. This newlyincluded the oversight of force Protection Measures entry to pull out points. A particular points in my testimony was my understanding of the security cost of its capabilities. It was sometime in the spring that we received the first tentative dates to work towards finalizing our efforts. Some debris 11th, 2021. The order came and we would begin to causally smaller bases. But two left in question. And hkia. For those two installations there was a looming question of whether or not they would and general millers guidance was in the order of discipline and dignity as would collapse. We would not just up and leave. I would hand over exceptionally orderly basis to the Afghan Government. We are instructed to get a policy good and still functional the chance that it will be used to future efforts. This person today significant issue to as we did not collapse to the point of an operability. We would have to have the personnel vitals running power and security and sanitation. If we began to close the base then the infrastructure to aggressively would not be able to function and maintain security if it were to remain open. It was sometime in march or april i met with planners from the u. S. Embassy. More planners came to conduct site surveys to determine if this was the appropriate spot to conduct a noncombatant evacuation. In this conversation, i was told hkia would be the other option. Prior to this meeting and received a contingency plan for a deal that had been pretty years prior. The contingency plan accounted for 45,000 to 50,000 says that we need to be evacuated. It was members of the embassy tandem informing me that the actual number would be anywhere from 120,000 140,000. I advise the embassy against using hkia for the following reasons. They could house 35,000 people without overloading the obstruction. Whereas hkia could only hold roughly 3000. Hkia was a shared air filter. It was not completely controlled by the military. We are weak points in the security. Law graham had a completely secure feel that was requiring a massive military investment to overrun our breach. Hkia was surrounded by the city of kabul, 4. 4 million residents. There was to be a fight he would be in urban environments which was exceptionally difficult to undertake control. They had a small town on the western edge, opened train in the majority of the north and east. Women of any kind could be protected, controlled, or eliminated very early. The defense ability of was exponentially that much greater than that of and they held a logistical capability that meets the requirements of 130,000 people. They have over 35,000 spaces and create more using cost within the air fare hangers. They had four dining facilities including and in the tens of thousands of gallons of potable water, enhanced by Water Purification capabilities. Is a guy did not. Bagram had a role three hospital, we have the greatest lifesustaining capabilities of any hospital remaining in afghanistan. Hkia had a role to hospital, meaning it had the greatest capability of and finally, loggerhead for industrial sized incinerators and to industrial size material shutters and a mechanical capability to destroy equipment on industrial scale in the short amount of time. Is it i did not. When i look at all my points they verbally agree with my assessment and i met twice more with the surveillance in may once in june. In these meetings, i inquired about the effect the taliban had had in may. And the increasing grounded controlled. Neil was going to be held due to the talibans rapid advance. Which indicated in the south on people. The team acknowledged the ground the taliban hits against, offering little insight into the decisionmaking process. On or about june 14th, given by july 4th. Well short of the originally planned date of september 11th. Hkia would remain open to provide a Quick Reaction to have it located approximately four driving miles away. This was to be enjoying the mission. All talks of conducting a neoreceived. It is my understanding those of the embassy believes that the taliban would not advance the role, and the neowasnt necessary. A exit that is one of the final conventional forces in bagram. On to july 2000 2021. My thoughts stay with the forces a stay on the ground, and the talibancontrolled about 50 of the afghanistan on the day ive departed. One single u. S. Infantry company, truly company for 31 infantry, has not been position. Led by captain brown for Sergeant Andrew kelly, protected hkia from six weeks before things began to unravel in august. Aerial once protected by hundreds of soldiers and contractors are now protected by 113 american soldiers, and two companies are turkish partner forces. Approximately 430 other Service Members and logistic maintenance air defense and Service Roles also occupied hkia. This was the only force left in afghanistan. I will offer this final bit of opinion. The mission asked of this company and the subsequent arrangement called for reinforcement of the security contingents which is monumental. Military executed this mission and the closure of afghanistan with honor and integrity and dignity. There is no force in the world has executed such a chaotic and Difficult Mission better than our u. S. And Coalition Forces did under the dire circumstances. They controlled absolute panic and anarchy. They somehow did it. I think every single one of them for a sacrifice. Thank you for allowing me to speak. Thank you, commensurate major. We are not going to move to questions. Well begin by recognizing the chairman of the full committee. Chairman mccaul. Mister chairman, let me first again acknowledge this gold star family here. I want to thank the three witnesses for your moral courage and clarity in your testimony here today. There is an old adage if you have plans you are planning to sail. First chairman of this committee, she was right. Their workers no plane and if you failed to plan your plans to fail and we have uncovered that there was the requests that came from state department to the Defense Department for and evacuation plan, however that came on august 17th two days after the fall of afghanistan. They fall. Four days after the embassy is evacuated. And yeah, as they present said we plan for all contingencies. I think colonel accra meant talked about how he recklessly disregarded his own National Security council. His own generals, and the Intelligence Community that we were being briefed at the same time. We saw this rosy narrative by state, and yet this dire warning by the rest. The d. O. D. In the Intelligence Community. The result was this complete debacle and failure. Colonel chronic, like the first question to you, was there a plan . Do you ever seen evacuation plan . Think you for the question. Chairman, the way the process works for planning is we will get an initial guidance that we need to come up with a course of action. So, u. S. Will build a number of courses of action. They were very different. Very unique and each characteristic of each one. Could be timeline, could be conditions, could be troop levels. And then a senior military members he put the microphone a bit closer, please . Thank you. Senior commanders will pick one and cover accommodation and explain why they did. Speaking into this is also the Intelligence Community which is part operations and part intelligence and they will lay out and this is the plan we think we should take. In this case, general miller and mackenzie all recommended that we should not do the withdraw until conditions are met. Violence had risen in afghanistan, and their concern was the timing was wrong. This is not going to give our allies a chance. To be able to react accordingly to the taliban. In a few, minutes i just want to rule the stand. Yeah, there was a recommendation. You talk about the failure to meet the doha agreement. Present disregarded, that ignorance that, as i carried by some of the d. O. T. And i see a National Security council. Was there ever an evacuation plans . Did you see . I know there is discussion. Did you ever seen evacuation plan . I did not. Discussions were going on at this highlevel. The problem was, those that we need to actually play it and sets were extremely busy. Sergeant major captured it eloquently, of how busy and how few Service Members there on the ground. They were not in a position to be able to plan and our hearts. Ive not seen evacuation plan. If they had a, i think they would have reduced to this committee. And this led to the chaos. Who was in charge . You know . We heard Sergeant Taylor testify that he has a suicide bomber in his sights. But, i did know what the rules of engagement where for god sake. There is no plan. There are rules of engagement or confusing at best. And they dont know what they are. Do you know what the rules of engagement are . I was not on the ground so i cannot speak speak to the specific rules of engagement. The military is clear leadership positions for who is on the ground. What was lacking from my perspective, was it about minnesota leadership on the ground. If you have an evacuation plan, the state takes over the evacuation, correct . Prior to that, the d. O. T. Is in charge and no one is really in charge because there was no plan in place. And guess what . The taliban takes over my last question. The rules of engagement are confusing at best. Mentioned a defensive strike has been a role of engagement. As one of the suicide bomber will confirm this is the suicide bomber. When the rules of engagement provide but you could take going to the threat is the difference of stroke . If i saw the suicide bomber in this all the, threat i would absolutely kill the suicide bomber. And yet we contact this Commanding Officer that were going to interview. They said they do not have the authority, and they ask who does have the authority . Because i dont. Now i will have to get back to you. And then in the interim time, guess what, the bomb goes off, killing 13 service men and women. 150 afghans, injuring 45 official u. S. Service men and women. Massive. Because one man says you dont have permission to engage. We are gonna follow up on that train. But i think it all results because there is confusion on the ground. Nobody knows what the plan is and we know who is in charge yesterday. If i can just build on, that at the point you are making that nobody is in charge is exactly right. There is nobody functionally in charge of our wars on the ground in the other. So what happens if i can just dry quick pitcher is we deploy to combat zones and bureaucratic silas. So, you have got the president s and the National Security council beneath him, of course. And then youve got the different bureaucratic silos thats going to be d. O. D. Day, a. I. D. S. , the i see with their different silos. And there is nobody in charge of this group on the ground. It had there been somebody in charge of this group, on the ground, then what you would have seen is a plan that not only synchronize the military withdrawal, but also the evacuation. So until we get this problem fixed actually have somebody in charge on the ground, were gonna continue to have higher risks and be up to the disasters. I. Great by law they are required to come up with a plan, and they do is not, that is the point the chairman has made over and over. Thank you for indulging me. Thank, you chairman. Thank you for responding. Ranking member is now recognized to provide it. Thank you, chairman. And thank you all for your testimony. I want to provide a bit of context here. Ask a few quick questions. With colonel and colonel kolenda. From 2016 to 2021, are you aware the taliban had increased s control of territory every year for this consecutive five years . Yes. Yes, absolutely. Are you aware of any indication that five year that the taliban was internally involved in discussions that indicated that they would be lying to enter into a Peace Agreement with the government of afghanistan or they believe that continued combat operations or the key to success . Either one of you . Their participation in the doha grandanse an attack your participation. Im talking with intelligence, indicating the taliban really believe that the path to success for them was a negotiated Peace Agreement. Or whether they would continue to press combat operations. I dont have a visibility on a specific intelligence that would lead to their that sinking. Okay. Mr. Ranking member, i can provide some insight on that. In 2017 in 2018, i was in my personal capacity i was outside of the government thats point. I was involved in tractor discussions with taliban leaders. Their version of diplomats over in doha are. And really relying on much of other questions. And the questions if you can. When the u. S. It removes the timeline, the taliban at least and diplomats said we want our top because we dont want our country to use their words to turn into another syria. Who started those talks and who know, or what, president agree to the doha agreement . Those talks started in 2018. I believe. Under President Trump. Okay. And after that agreement was, executed the taliban today largely stop attacking u. S. Soldiers on the ground in afghanistan . Yes. And then, after the taliban stopped attracting soaps on the ground in afghanistan, u. S. Soldiers did not allow us to this troop numbers . Ill answer that. Seven provisions. I just answer the question. After the talibans top offensive operations against u. S. Military in afghanistan, then did that allow us to reduce troop numbers . It did. Okay. When did that reduction start . Roughly speaking, another way it started reducing troop number after the doha agreement, regardless. The taliban were not meeting the conditions. Required of them for us to be doing these withdrawals. At a certain point, there was discussion we started in 2020, correct . Correct. Drastically reducing troop numbers in 2020. Okay. Next question. Are you aware of operation that me, mister waltz, and mrs. Cheney passed in the 2020 nba cycle that would restrict the ability of the Trump Administration to reduce troop levels below 2000, unless certain conditions and certain planning our ports were made to congress. Are you aware of that provision . Look im, not but im glad you did. It became. Law are you aware that President Trump in early january weeks before the transition of the presidency actually ways that provision so that he can reduce numbers below 2000 . I know there was a discussion to bring the troops below 2000 and i know that general milley and senior military commanders just enough to emerson in that order. He did it, correct . The numbers dropped below 2002 to a waiver in 2021. Correct . I feel the, where it just so youre not aware. That is true. If we had not withdrawn by the end of august, 2021, i want to hear from each of you very briefly. It is your belief that the taliban would have resumed a combat operation against u. S. Soldiers. U. S. Troops on the ground . Colonel conrich . I believe if we had not pulled out by that states that they wouldve had a hard time when winter started, to be able to actually excuse that. Which would have given the Afghan Government the time and space to get their your testimony as you believe the taliban with other resumes combat operations against the United States. And they fall 2021. As long as there was negotiations going on in the taliban, and we were telegraphing what our timeline way to be, i believe the way they wouldve respected is. It was the only thing they did out of the entire doha agreement. Colonel kolenda . I think if we were not talking with him in coordinating a new day and it looks like we were violating our end of the agreements i think the taliban wouldve resumed attacks. Respectfully, i dont have enough in information. To give my opinion on this matter. Which most of the intelligence attacks shows they would have done, would we be able to adequately defend ourselves with the ruffle a 1000 troops that we havent wouldve had to have added troops on the ground. We are talk to a surge in afghanistan again, colonel commercial . My recommendation would eventually force protection required. We wouldve had to battle troops . Colonel kolenda . I agree, mr. Ranking member, most likely will add troops in order to protect our so were gonna do not have any enough information. My point is there is a really hard decision that had to be made then President Biden made choosing from extremely difficult alternatives that would essentially cause more conflict operations for 2021 into the president s. Thank you for the time, i yield back. Thank you Ranking Member crow. I consider it a question to ask about something that resumed never ceased. Right up to the but i now recognize that in our next mystified nick for five minutes. Thank you both for the opportunity to wave on this hearing. On this committee today i think them for their service, sacrifice, and testimony. Day comments are major smith, im especially grateful that you took on this tremendous responsibility. As i have the distinct honor of representing almost the tenth mountain decisions for the First Time Since 9 11. I we are member to highlight that Biden Administration reckless decisions in the avoidable traffic doesnt our Service Members is appointed recognize so many members, many women in uniform, so bravely. A command Sergeant Major, smith you met with the u. S. Embassy says they were considering as two potential operation sites where you can start sticking into consideration . I appreciate you letting me speak as far as a site survey team, if icing consideration. I dont know what conversation they had and i cannot speak on that. From my standpoint, bagram had not much more Tactical Advantage pinocchio out of this. Much easier to defend a nature control points, very much dependent in depth. Its very easy to create a filtering process within those entering control points, to filter those needed to be evacuated. And those who didnt. It was just much more tactically advantageous location. Meanwhile, the taliban was rapidly advancing on kabul. Every day became clear that evacuation was likely necessary. We recently released a state department after action review as the shows that the Biden Administration understood that the closure of wagner meant that the only place this evacuation will be conducted when v is a guy i. We know there were 113 soldiers from charles a company for 31 of ted Mountain Division, assigned to protect is a guy as the taliban was rapidly approaching. A company sized element adequately perform where mountain soldiers were assigned. If it wasnt commander wouldve had at least it battalion there. And battalion. A big difference from the company. This disastrous decision leading up to the afghanistan withdraw force Charlie Company for 31 intermission that was nearly impossible to execute. For over a month, the brave soldiers of the tenth Mountain Division disseminated as a cry as it was engulfing chaos. This hearing is important to bring transparency and shed light and ultimately answer those families particularly our gold star families, of whom i know some are here today. We can never thank them enough for their sacrifice. Thank you for your service, and i yield back. Yelling five minutes to mr. Kim. Thank, you mr. Chair thank you to the three of. You we talked a lot about the doha agreement to talking about how the seven conditions, six were not met, but i want to start by taking a step back. Did you agree with the approach of starting those negotiations with a taliban . There was a lot of controversy about that. Engaging in negotiations directly and unilaterally with the taliban, without the government of afghanistan. The more we talk about that . I think it is clear that when you do 20 years or have to find out and, it starts with open conversations and it starts with having those open channels of communication with the taliban. I think that is an important step. I think its something that needed to begin so we can then expand over time. To bring in all the parties that were irrelevant to the situation. So you supported the idea of starting with the taliban without the government of afghanistan in there to see if you can bring in the other parts . In my written statement i was clear, i am a realist. I know that this has to end at some point. It is truly, when you control the how and the when. Then, you have to be very ithaca look at it. If that is an open avenue to begin the process, absolutely. Was it a good deal . With your agreement a deal . On paper . Sure. But the doha agreement is worthless if you cant give both parties to do what is required. We operated in good faith. To our detriment. And more importantly, the governments of the afghan people. You remember the tactically, trying to organize the withdrawal in the spring and summer, its just not a good tactical effort. Is that correct . Thats correct. Would you then extend that to the timeline that the doha agreement was agreed to in february, 14 months later in may 2021. Now, i think that if we got to may of 2021, and the conditions were met, which was critical, then, the stage would have been set. For a responsible withdrawal, sorry. You talked very deeply abused destruct of the taliban. Do you had metal seven conditions, realistically . We wouldnt get into this conversation we didnt believe that there was a chance. The problem, realistically, there was a chance that the taliban would agree to all seven conditions . We would not have put them out there if we hadnt. You have to think its a leap of trust to say, we are going to give you the opportunity to do it. Even if you take a leap of trust, having some sense of continuancey, and setting that kind of timetable he talked about how there havent been these conditions meant. I agree with you. They were not the conditions. Met and if i heard you correctly, you said, we should not have gone to withdrawal if the conditions werent met, correct . Correct. So the withdrawals that happened in october 7th, trump saying we should try to have the troops on my christmas. You can disagree with those decisions as well . I think there with putin steps taken when we saw the conditions were being met when we began our troop withdrawals, and we saw that there was at that point, general milley and other Senior Leaders talked about the president and they halted withdraw that point, to make sure that the conditions were driving the decision. Colonel, i want to bring you in on this. What im trying to tease out here is that i think you really hit the nail on the hand, these are systemic problems across we recognize that there were problems and mistakes that were made leading up to the withdrawal but also would you agree with that kind of statement there . In february 14th of 2018, the taliban issued an open letter to the American People saying they wanted to talk. I agree with my colleague that that we had navigation fighting a just war, to explore those opportunities, we negotiate interior interests not to give them away, and the doha agreement promises are no terrorism, and there was no accountability, so there is no Single Person who was able to, below the president of the United States, who was able to say, the taliban already material breach, we are stopping the withdrawal and we are resuming military operations against them. Nobody had that authority, and its this silo problem. A related problem is that the state department does not have anybody of expert knowledge on idea on how to conduct wartime negotiations, in which the United States is an active participant. This is a major shortfall, and its a major shortfall in our National Security thinking, and one of the common that we can make to prevent Something Like this from happening again. Thank, you i yield back. I didnt amazing with him thank the president s who are responsible for what happened in the withdrawal of afghanistan, but they are entitled to their opinions. Thank you, mister chair. We hear from the other side of the aisle, quite a lot, we have to put this all into context. There were a lot of mistakes made in the 20 years of war, and frankly, i think thats a sad deflection. From the mistakes that were made, the debacle that this withdrawal was. I can fill this room with think tank reports and studies, some of which you authors authored, and some of which have participated within the pentagon, in the Bush Administration they continued during the Obama Administration, all to varying degrees. And then we hear about, as we are hearing from the other side, about, well, it was really about doha. Heck, we even saw that President Bidens after action review, but the end of the day, and this is a fact people cant get over, is President Trumps National Security team went into him and said the taliban are not living up to it, and he did not withdraw. They didnt live up to their end of the bargain, and therefore, we stopped, and then we hear, well, the administration, the biden ministration, didnt have any choice. They had no problems with getting back into the paris accords. They had no problem reversing course on iran, or reversing course on the border. Heck, the even canceled an entire pipeline on day one. Yet we are supposed to believe that they had no choice when it came to afghanistan. Its a bunch of crap. Its a garbage argument. And i think deep down my colleagues on the other side of the aisle know it in their hearts. Lets stick the fact that there is an official withdrawal and how it was handled. Colonel, you are a senior staff officer and central command, and you are testifying that President Biden ignored the militarys advice of 34 star generals, general miller, general mackenzie, and general milley, correct . That is correct. And its safe to articulate that our soldiers, their loved ones, were asked to do two conflicting missions, to completely get everything out as fast as possible in a full withdrawal, yet also facilitate and evacuation. Is that accurate . That is correct. Sergeant major, you are testifying that your best military advice on using foreign instead of hkia was also ignored thats not the way it happened, sir. We did not do it and on bagram, and this is critical to the families sitting behind you, was the Person Holding 7000 7000 of the most hardened terrorists, including the suicide bomber that killed their loved ones and abby gates, correct . Correct. Were you aware of any Contingency Planning the afghans were guarding, it but they needed the base for power, for life support, for supplies. Were you aware of any Contingency Planning as the taliban were closing in on kabul to deal with those prisoners, should that present fall or they be released . Are you aware of any Contingency Planning . Anyone . I was not, sir. Finally, i will just ask you, were you aware of any Contingency Planning to deal with our sivs, key afghans Like Ministry officials, journalists, women, activists, people that the taliban would obviously have targeted on what continued including, heck, our own u. S. Citizens. Any Contingency Planning as part of this rapid withdrawal to get those folks out should our assumptions that the Afghan Government could hold military and Afghan Military any Contingency Planning along those lines . No, and it became very painfully obvious under extreme duress how big of a gap that was. This was an utter lack of planning that their loved ones paid the ultimate price for, and that our afghan allies right now today are being hunted down, as we speak, theyre still playing the price for, and future American Children have to go up and go back and clean up this mess as weve had to do in iraq from the Obama Administration decision. There is a direct causality there in european . There is. Thank you. What would happen to a leader in the military who ignored intelligence and failed to plan, in this case, until the day before, resulting in troops killed . What would happen . They would get courtmartial. How does it make you feel that not a single official has resigned, then relieved, and court marshaled, even laterally transferred. How does that make you feel . Terrible. I would like someone to take responsibility. Jfk had the bay of kick he says the buck stops with me. Not only are they not taking responsibility, the president of the United States is saying thats not outstanding success. Should at least secretary blinken, with the state department in charge of operation, in your opinion, at least resign . Hes not going to be fired by the president. Should he at least resign . I cant speak of what he should do, but i would say that Senior Leaders definitely need to be held accountable in that organization. Well theyre not under this administration, colonel. This committee will not let this go. Thank you, mister chairman for your indulgence, both chairman and to our families. We will not let this go, as long as i sit in this seat, we will drive accountability for you and for your loved ones. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you. I yield five minutes to miss titus. Thank, you mister chairman. I think the witnesses, and i to honor the i appreciate them sitting through and having to relive some of this. I would point out that youd mentioned the 7000 Prisoners Released as part of the doha agreement. Part of the agreement was to release 5000 of them, isnt that right, colonel . I would have to go back and look at the numbers. That was part of the doha agreement, the conditions were met, and people were acting in good faith that there would be steps taken. As i understand, it you were the chief of staff at special Operations Command central, back in 2019 . I was. While you are there, you said, over and over and over, weve heard this, there was no plan, no plan, no plan. Did you see any planning during the time you were there starting in 2019, leading up to doha . To be clear, u. S. For a had planned, on the military side, and i want to make sure this is really clear, the military has military plans, and they executed them with under great duress, i think they did very well. Both the acting of the withdrawal, which was key they did that in an incredible timeline, and its a testament to the planning and the execution given the nature of the plan. And, the actual i appreciate that, i know how well our military performed and how many people were removed. Why do you keep saying theres no plan, no plan, no plan . I dont think i said that. People up here keep saying it. The plan we put forth is the military recommend a course of action, it was not chosen. A separate court submission was selected by the administration, which focused on the diplomatic footprint, and going back to early testimony, there were three goals. Ive got your testimony, i can read it. Talk about diplomatic solutions, this is a committee that looks at Foreign Affairs, not at military. Thats a different committee, so id like to get back to some of the diplomacy. Weve heard a lot about how the women and children left in afghanistan, or women and girls are being so mistreated. Isnt it true that during the negotiations for the doha plant, there were no women at the table . No women in the room . Would that have made a difference in some of the decisions that were made, and doctor, could you comment on that . I wasnt in the room at doha. I know that certainly on the taliban side, there were no women present. I think at the american side, maybe there were. So thats thats part of the afghan they werent in the room either. No, they werent. Another thing is, when weve got to look at weve got to look at how to make it better, not just keep going over and over and over again about how terrible it was. We acknowledge that. There were mistakes made, our hearts go out coopt downs families, but lets try to prevent it from happening again. Maybe one of the reforms we can make and try to expand that the afghan grand agreement, for the number of visas provided to get families out, would that make a difference . Would that be helpful . I was talking with one of my former interpreters yesterday, who i helped get a special immigrant visa, and his family is still in afghanistan. His parents are still in afghanistan, under threat. And it would be wonderful if immediate family members of our siv holders could qualify as well. Lets do something lets thats what they come from this other than a rehashing, i think, that is something the committee should look. At you mention in your written testimony some of the solutions that nobody on the ground, would you lay down some of those other solutions . We can read it, but lets put it on the record. Sure, congresswoman. The first one i mentioned is we need basic National Security, a basic doctrine, the military calls it doctrine, a set of terms and concepts. We use them across agencies, were using the same terms to mean the same thing. I was in the white house situation room listening to people use the word defeat, reconciliation, other terms to mean completely Different Things. And that impeded Community Communication the term vanquish and withdrawn mean Different Things to different people. If we were speaking the same language, within the administration, within any administration, across agencies, then we would have a much greater chance of improving communication and coordination. Fewer things falling through the cracks. Second, or related to that, is we need to have a doctrine about war termination. The military doesnt have, when the state department doesnt have one, the state department has no expert body of knowledge on how to can how to conduct wartime negotiations with the United States as an active participant. And it has not worked out, every single time. That expert body of knowledge is not difficult to create, and something that could be done fairly rapidly. The next reform is to put somebody in charge on the ground of our wars. So instead of all the silos, exploring the silos, the lowest ranking person that anybody on the ground reports to, Senior Leaders on the ground to the lowest person they report to is the president of the United States. You cant run a business that way. You certainly cant run a war that way. We need a congressional equivalent of a cold water nichols act, for the inner agency. This would give the president the capability to appoint a senior civilian or military official to be in charge of our all u. S. Efforts on the ground and everybody reporting to that individual, and that person is then held accountable by the president for achieving u. S. Aims, and would appear before congress for proper oversight and accountability. We are missing that today, in this hearing. There is no one person congress can point to and say, talk to us about this disastrous evacuation. The final point is we need a much better doctrine for how we build developing military institutions. The way we build the Afghan Military was in our own image and likeness because thats what we do, but there are other models for military, and if we had a greater menu of options, and what sort of considerations would make one option more advantageous than another, we could have built in Afghan Military that was much more selfreliant, much less dependent upon us, and quite frankly, im a consultant. I work with clients. And ive got an ethical obligation to make sure that when we part ways, which we will always do, that my clients are better off and they are able to on their own. What we did, creating such a dependent military, was malpractice. Think you so much. Thank, you mister chairman. Thank you, miss titus. I would think, just personally, that if the president does not delegate and authority, then he has the authority and the individual report to the president directly should he not delegate somebody. I now yield five minutes thank you, mister chairman. I will just briefly say the first time i was in afghanistan, it was shortly after we went in in 2001. And i observed that it was a shithole i went to the socalled palace, and i was overwhelmed by the facility that the king had occupied, so it doesnt occupy that 20 years later we still had problems, and during that time, we saw rampant corruption, including he and his brother the country the american taxpayer of billions of dollars, and we can talk for as long as anyone is allowed, about the failures of afghanistan. But i do want to talk about the subject that you are here for a moment. Sergeant major, you laid out the difference in the facilities, watch which was defendable, one which was able to almost occupy a siege if necessary, but if im correct, would have required some flexibility in the number of personnel, another war lesson in thousand the embassy, then you dont have the flexibility to being such a large military installation, it had 84 guard towers, and that takes a significant amount of man power to man. Given maybe doubled the amount, 2000 or so, you could have defended that air base. Thats 2009 including the people operating aircraft and other things that might have been left there. But bagram could have been maintained and would have been safer had we had some flexibility from the commanderinchief, as to the number of personnel, correct . Sir, if we had 2000 people, bagram would be a much safer location. Kernels, i will address you together for a moment, we both went to the war colleges, you both went to general staff we went through a quick history, i will go through it quickly. During vietnam, the now 100yearold Henry Kissinger negotiated what some would call a flawed agreement. They had these Peace Agreements, both during the time and afterwards, isnt it true that when Richard Nixon saw failures to comply, saw aggression, saw an attempt to take ground, by his adversaries, being the north vietnamese and get, conch evened the out of it, using a technical military turn. Im not remembering history if you are not compliant with it, that the commander to essentially let them know that there was a consequence for not obeying an agreement . That is my recollection. So knowing that the commanderinchief had a history in what people often called that failed withdrawal of saigon, which by the way was long after we had left and our military had left, and it really was a post period, we certainly could have a discussion about the failure to plan i would like to just go into one other. Benghazi. There were similarities with benghazi, which seems to be there was no plan to withdraw the military did not know who could do it. The facilities were insufficient, with the investigation of benghazi, what we find . We found that the facilities chosen, the facilities in which the ambassador was hunkered down, were not compliant with any state department requirements. In fact, he died because the fuel tank was right next to where he was supposed to be in a safe house. So Sergeant Major, im going to come back to you, the actual loss of an actual 60 160 human beings plus, and 13 of our Service Members, can it be reasonably attributed to the difference in facilities chosen between bagram versus hkia . The offensive happened, i believe if, that would not have occurred in bagram. The defense, that bagram, held the ability to see for hundreds of meters, and the indepth control points, i do not believe the result would have been the same. Im not going to defend the work of the secretary of state pompeo, in the doha agreement, but i will ask i think i will start with you, colonel. Am i correct that the nine months of the Trump Administration, followed by nine months, or nearly nine months, of the Biden Administration, each of them had nine months more or less to make decisions on that plan. What would you say were the fatal flaws during that first nine months . Did for example the Trump Administration withdraw troops to an artificially low level . Did they signal in a way that would cause people to evacuate were their actions during the Trump Administration that you can say they absolutely lead cost 13 members lives, that you can point to today . Not during the Trump Administration. I dont see a direct causation during that time period. Wasnt there, during that neckline months, plenty of time to make adjustments based on the actions of the taliban, during that next nine or so months . There was time to make adjustments. And were there any adjustments made that you made up during that period of time that said to the taliban that there would be consequences to their violation . That was our failure in the doha agreement. We did not hold them accountable for meeting those conditions, yet we continued to withdraw. Okay. Lastly, the release at the time of that 5 to 7000 bad guys, if you will, was that ever related to the agreement, or was that inherently related to the closing of bagram . I dont know the answer to that question. Were they released essentially simultaneously with the closing Sergeant Major, you are probably the closest to knowing the time of schedule. Sir, i do not know the timeline. Okay. We will take that one and find out later. Mister chairman, thank you very much for your indulgence. Thank, you at this point we will recognize the gentlelady from pennsylvania for five minutes. Thank, you chairman. And thank you Ranking Member crow. I thank you, our witnesses, for testifying today, and of, course even more, thank you for your service to our country. I also recognize, the Service Members of the gold star families, my heart is with you. Our gratitude is with you. And if its something we can never repay. This 20year war cost our country so much, and while the end was devastatingly heartbreaking, we could not continue to send americans to fight a war no longer in our own national interest. We owe a tremendous debt to the more than 2400 u. S. Service members killed, and the more than 20 20,000 wounded during the 20year conflict in afghanistan. And we are here to understand what happened, and importantly, to learn how do we do better in the future. Thats my democratic colleagues have said, august 2021 did not happen in a vacuum. This was a 20year war, and to understand what happened, we have to look at the broader context. Colonel crime rich, you testified in response to prudent steps were taken in 2020 to start withdrawing troops, but later, when we saw the conditions general milley and others ceased to drawdown. But isnt it true, in january of 2021, President Trump further drew than u. S. Troops, just days before the change of administration . I would have to go back and look. I dont know the specific answer to that question. I believe it is, i think maybe down to 2500, literally within days of what we would hope was a peaceful transfer of power. Do you believe the president , President Trump, knew the taliban would not meet the doha deal . Yes, which is why there was a halt on the withdrawal in late 2020. And yet a continued withdrawal in 2020 january 2020, one days before he left office . I would have to go back if you were to provide this to the committee, that would be helpful. We need the record to be as clear as possible. For all of you, what lessons should you, as civilian and military leaders, take from this war . Colonel kolenda, as you point out, what happened in afghanistan is not unique, there was iraq, before that was vietnam. I had two brothers who served during the vietnam war, and in the navy. My eldest neighbor brother bob served two tours of duty in vietnam on destroyers and hospital ships. I remember, as a little girl, the devastation of that war, and of course, at the end of that war, how do we prevent another such disaster . Thank you, congresswoman. Im not sure if minersville, pennsylvania, is in your district, but one of my troopers, dave bores, is buried there, at the cemetery. Thank you for telling me that. I wrote this book, zero sum victory, what we are getting wrong about war, to address the exact question that you posed. There are a lot of different reforms that we need to make, so that we dont have identified a few of those in a written testimony, to include we need to put somebody in charge on the ground, in charge of all u. S. Forces. We need the state department to develop an expert body of knowledge for conduct wartime negotiations, in which we are a participant. I found that the whole process, leading up to the doha agreement, to be deeply troubling. Instead of trying to focus on a deal, and putting a total withdrawal of u. S. Troops on the table, immediately, as participants have told me would happen, we should have instead worked a bit more like the Northern Ireland Peace Agreement, peace process, where it was a step by step process testing the talibans bona fides and intentions to see if they would uphold their commitment. And then you have got to make sure youve got accountability. And somebody on the ground who is able to make those determinations about accountability. In the event so the adversary doesnt uphold their terms. Something is basic is a National Security doctrine instead of a terms in card that were all the same terms for the same people. We dont have that right now. They speaking to frontline Intelligence Community speaks differently wedge. Coordination, good strategy, good policy through the cracks. I thank, you and i see the my time has expired. For those in the audience, thank you also. I yield back. At this point we will recognize the gentleman from tennessee, mr. Green, for five minutes. Thank, you chairman. Oversight hearing chairman mass from his leadership continuing to hold the bidens when the most biggest project failures in u. S. History. I also want to thank here and thank them for their sacrifice to our country. A. I am confident that looking at my fellow veterans and leaders on this dais that we will finally get the record straight. I also want to think for their Selfless Service to our nation and the people of afghanistan. Well continue to look for your bravery and your grace under pressure for inspiration in the decades to come. I find its tragic thats the other side is going back to the Previous Administration when we know that during that in ministration, the taliban did not gain massive ground because they know that he would have bombed them into oblivion. When the circumstances changed massively on the ground. In the military commander said biden told nearly no. Its that simple. And mistakes made throughout the 20 year 20 years of our time in afghanistan did not just have to put it in the end. They just dont. And the other wrong does not make a right. And as i did during the full committee of the Foreign Affairs hearing in march, i want to say a word to my fellow afghanistan veterans. Our service and our sacrifices were not in vain. Despite the strategic mistakes made in washington. We kept america safe for a major terrorist attack for over 20 years. No one who served like myself lost friends should ever allow these mistakes that we are addressing today to detract in any way from those sacrifices. We were talking american for 20 years. Please no accountability is coming. My own combat deployment in afghanistan illustrated to me the importance of teamwork and the cajun to the mission at hand. Particularly when it comes to planning. In afghanistan, we always had our fellow soldiers backs. No matter what it took and no matter the personal costs. We took care of our own including our afghan brothers in arms. It is our mission to keep afghanistan free and america safe. And in one of the darkest hours of American Foreign policy, you all stood in the breach to save the lives of honorable american citizens and our afghan allies for the vicious taliban. You didnt let the mission down even when the politicians dates. You are left without proper direction or support for your commanderinchief. But you did not let that deter you. You all stood up and continue to do so in a way that our state department has been unable or unwilling to do. For two weeks in august of 2021 we basically had no state department in afghanistan and our active Duty Service Members and our veterans did the essential security and humanitarian work on the ground proving once again that americas greatest resource of any challenge is our men and women in arms. You all are a testament to the critical fact that we have learned about the United States military and our veterans throughout the war on terror. That even when washington fails you, you rise to every occasion. America thanks you for your dedication, courage and hearts of service to your fellow man. Sergeant major smith, command Sergeant Major, you testified after the closure only one single company, 113 u. S. Soldiers, two companies, partner forces, were left in afghanistan to protect asia. Can you give us a details on how complicated this is and if you feel there was you feel that number of troops is suspicious or why not . Sir, with the Turkish Forces i need to preface this with their involvement in this. That was the area responsibility. It was the remaining hundred and 13 from that company that was responsible for the arrest of that airfield. He includes manning all the towers and all the guard positions. It was an exceptionally hard task and there should have been more people there. We know that general milley was asked for more and was turned down. I have a question now for opening your name right, colonel camera. Is that correct . Can you explain why you are incredulous to hear senior officials expressed surprise at the swiftness of the Afghan Government collapse and the taliban takeover . I think there is two aspects to this. The first is the underestimation of the talibans capabilities over the last 20 years. We saw them in 2000 yuan, that initial taliban force was not very efficient compared to what i saw ten years later. Standing next to a bed, in walter reed with a friend of mine who was a Team Sergeant that got caught green on blue attack. He described to me the thousand meter accurate firefight were having with machine guns and the taliban. The taliban were getting much much more legal. And it was only going to continue to rise. They were improving, and they were getting the logistics they needed. The training they needed. A real threat that was on the rise. Meanwhile on the Afghan Government side i think it weighs so eloquently by the Afghan Government had a kleptocracy. How did issue all the way through that is preventing them from being able to achieve what they needs to achieve. So you had this very strong taliban that was always going to be a threat and to your point they were struck in the 78 districts that were frankly pushed way out into the they were not important areas. But once we telegraph that we were going to leave, and the pressure was then put on the Afghan Military, it was clear that that increasingly lethal taliban are going to have a serious effect. We left immediately. Absolutely spending empty chair. When our afghan allies were looking around, where did we go. When the red storm was coming out there from the taliban. At that point, disaster followed. I apologize. I cant stay for the remainder of this Committee Hearing and i am over my time. The chairman of the committee on Homeland Security and im going to a classified briefing on the 14,000 chinese nationals imported across our southern border with ties to the pla at which is another tragic failure of this administration. So i must leave but i thank you for your service in this country. Thank you so much mister grain. And thank you for your support as well. And helping to secure our borders. I want to go back to a couple of things that were said throughout this by my colleagues on the left. You have things where they say, well, theres no point in us rehashing this. The military, we call something being rehashed as an ar. And after action review. The whole point of conducting those after action reviews is to one inch that these types of incidences do not rush occur again. But also ensure the accountability is held, and we cant go forward and make sure the right people are there. Youre also competing to here, we need to look at it in its entirety over the last 20 plus years. As someone who has served in the United States military as a combat veteran like many of my colleagues who are up here, when we take command, and we basically go out on operation, and those operations go wrong, we do not look at the previous man and go, previous man had them for the last two years. They are training that happened in the past. Thats the reason for these actual instances of mistakes. Thats what they want to do to President Trump. They want to say, look at it its in its entirety. Lets not talk about the obama. Lets not talk about the bush era. Lets ignore august 26th, which was under the Biden Administration. Lets just focus on President Trump. I wouldve been has anything to do with the Upcoming Elections and the fact that hes heading to the polls and we are playing politics which is why were sitting here right now over strategy and over actually holding those accountable for the actions that theyre responsible for. I was a Non Commissioned Officer who worked for a living. The major interstates this all too well. One thing that we know is that when we deploy al, whoever does not come home is on us. We cannot should let responsibility, i dont play with anyone. Thats exactly what Everyone Wants to do. I would also just comment on something really quick. On august 31st, of 2021, President Biden claims that the afghan withdrawal, to quote him, was an extraordinary success. I want to play a video, if i may. Then i want to ask the exact same question. Please direct your attention. [speaking in a nonenglish language] that was an american who is waving her passport at the gate that the Biden Administration and the department of state secretary blinken, secretary austin claims was made fulltime and enablement of trying to help guarantee americans. She said all you do is show your blue passport and well let you in. He also tried to say that there was no chaos. In regards to the withdrawal. If that looks structured as loved ones go through and look through body after body, trying to find their deceased loved one who passed away, that might not look like proper protection like we would find at the air base. That wouldve guarantee the necessary standoff that was going to be provided. The ability to house the sivs and p1 and p2 so that we get proper medical and biometrics supports. Just throwing people on an aircraft, they call the greatest successful operational airlift in history. Even though its reportedly almost 70 were partially embedded. We call that an extraordinary success, colonel . That video is what failure looks like. It is, failure absolutely. Youre exactly right. Major, what would you say on that . Sir, under the conditions that the United States military found themselves under i believe that in that chaos and anarchy the military had a Successful Mission. The conditions were less than ideal, though. But to your exact point, and you are right, the issue and i say this and i spent over seven years of my life in morocco and three years in afghanistan. Pakistan and northern somalia. Well see it in roadside i duties and backed outs twice. Once with any of, ppe with we are all familiar with. Those are not failures by the u. S. Military. Those wearing the uniform. It is the suits. Not the boots who are actually responsible for these types of failures in these collapses. One of the reasons why right fork andres. I got tired of people who sit here trying to make decisions that impact us as war fighters on the grounds. But yet they have no accountability or understanding or actual on ground experience themselves. Less than 17 of Congress Actually made up of veterans prior to this last election. Probably the reason why to your point colonel colitis, that we have and continue to have Strategic Military failures time and time again. This incidents that occurred during the by the biden ministration was because they applied political optics over military strategy. But theyre also responsible for that intelligence line that you talk about. There was credible until that we know is provided they after day. And i have looked at that in are skipping classified briefings and show them the grades they were was giving enough to know what was going to occur and what was happening and where the planning wise. Dining is, finished execution is great. Then august 26 happened. Thats why we have 13 of our Fallen Heroes and 13 new gold star families. Im here right now and proud. Hold this in my pocket. So im not here alone ive got aarian corporal sandras, its going right here. Given by our family. Who i know is looking for the same accountability. Because this death was present preventable. But so was the americans in that, video i could show you. We report our 13th heroes. The thing that has not been your point was all the americans who were on the other side is that gate, waiting to get in. Whose families still do not have a clue where they are at. The reason i know is that there are more americans there is that whenever i heard about what was going on in afghanistan, congressman Ronny Jackson called me and told me with the mother of three children that were trapped. In afghanistan than hers amarillo texas and he tried to reach out to the state department to get support. They told him, well call and see where we are at. Hes a rear admiral as well. When he called the doj they told him he cannot do anything and they were in the midst of a withdrawal. So i put a Team Together of former squadron members and i had the great support of a friend of mine, in a single foundation. We put a Team Together and flew over there, and conducted the First Successful overland rescue. Why was it overland . Because the biden ministration has our efforts on three different occasions to rescue americans. Even though we had an aircraft that was scheduled to go 28 americans. And fly them out. You, know it is interesting to me. I hardly americans on the other, side when theyre not admitting to them that one of the women that were in contact with a two year old son. For americans. We were in contact with and told to me today gate and restart our policy of what were going to do an operational white paper, if you will. If we found they werent going to be able to be there we ask everybody to leave and they told us they thought we can still get in. As august 26th we try to reach out to her again and never heard from her again. Very likely another american and her son. We also talked, i know i wanted to clarify for the record. When we talk about this metric withdrawal with the agreement, it was very clear that if the metric was not mass, and the agreement was not met, that we were not obligated to remove everyone, is that correct . Part of President Trump leaving office and we are advised by their generals that we should not go to a zero sum game of playing with everyone and will leave devices behind as we pointed out they started Getting Better and they should change the decision to lead military country to ensure that it happens. Is that correct . That is correct. It sounds to me that President Trump listen to the generals and the advisers had an actual withdrawal plan that was based on a condition based agreement but yes the Biden Administration came to say that all these failures are the results of the Trump Administration. They dont have any problem removing things remain in mexico agreement. Didnt have any problem removing other trump policies. This one thing, they would step sully hamstrung. Now is all of you have led many men have you ever been when you take commands, help to say i cant do a nice was to do to make changes for my command . When im in command, im in command. Kolenda. Mr. Males. Of course, when youre in canadian commands. Youve got constraints and limitations on you all the time. That you deal with. The buck stops with you. And thats why it is unfortunate that we do not have anybody in charge of the hours on the ground because the buck has nobody to hold accountable or when nobody held here except for officials off the ground with the evacuation withdrawal. Youre exactly right. Major . I was taught from a very young age as an appeal that theyre responsible for everything your soldiers do. Gentlemen, i could not agree more with the testimonies ive heard so far today. And i just want to ask a quick spitfire question if i may. This is, you colonel cameron. If we held on to what we have better protected the country from the taliban takeover . Log nor wouldve been my personal choice. What youve agreed if we held wagner we couldve also had to simultaneous runaways running to help with our evacuation as opposed to taking over just ishakzai and giving up the other one . I also build on that to say its really about the plan, we are to make applying all about the embassy and all about is a caden you limit yourself, youre taking away any last ability to enforce the agreements and you threaten everything that we try to build and all the hope to put in this country is going to get locked away based on that decision. I agree with. Here i also know the Biden Administration not only tries to put this on trump, but when the u. S. Government takes over into, which is a commercial airway, then all the people who are told in november 11th, this magical day they were going to go, and have put their fights focus 26, but their place in august, but suffice for september 1st emirates and cam air and arianas and other providers, they made at the u. S. Government can take control of that airport, all those commercial flights got canceled. Which is singlehandedly responsible for the americans are actually left behind. My last question, when her just have a special for you colonel, other nations according to the uk special forces rocks out there rescuing their citizens to ensure that they get out. But the u. S. Never did it. What we do not law to rescue americans . This is not classified setting. I know that are highly engaged and highly active. My personal opinion it is the scope of what we are seeing tasked was so vast and the time that was allowed for that to happen made it an impossibility. For us to be able to thoroughly be able to execute it is like we are talking about. Thank you so much. It goes back to the original point which is that not only were those 13 heroes their deaths, preventable, with proper planning, and proper military strategy. With ensuring that if the metric and conditionsbased agreements was not a parent to, that we werent going to fall apart and withdrawing give everything over to the taliban after 20 plus years of sacrifice, thousands of lives, this was a planning failure. On the Biden Administration. That needs to be held accountable here. I can promise you that you will be held accountable here. What, that i like to recognize my good friend from texas. Mr. Moran. For five minutes. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you to each of these witnesses for being here today to share your testimony. Thank you in particular for putting National Security policy and Foreign Affairs policy ahead of politics and appreciate your commitment to improving or future behavior by evaluating our past decisions is underscored by your presence here, and the testimony youve given. I deeply appreciate that. Colonel come, mark i want to start with you. You mentioned in your testimony the administrations timing and quote, selective intelligence blindness, were two of the three fundamental flaws thats directly threaten the military plan and mission to execution that was from your testimony. Ive known your, opinion what is the most grievous or egregious example of, quote, selective intelligence blindness. Which is attributable to the biden ministration during the afghan withdrawal process . Theres not much she is from. I think. The key piece is when you have 100 years of experience between those 34 star generals. And theyre telling you, based on all of this experience, that we need to hold off on the withdraw to the conditions are met. These are the reasons why. Operationally and based on the entire Intelligence Community telling you that this needs to follow the condition. When that was not followed, and the decision was to go to the diplomatic islands in kabul, at that point, it was the biggest mistake made by the administration. I shouldve listened to those that have been living at. Those that had had to endure the losses there. And failure to do so was catastrophic. The reason we put those conditions into certain agreement is, if theyre not, follow the obligations for our activities goes away. The basic principle of law, and the contract. There are conditions that were seeing of those are not fulfilled and the other party does not have to fulfill its commitment or obligations. In this case you are saying we just ignore the fact that they didnt feel their conditions for saying this. Is this true . That is correct. You also said as well it is well known between may and october that afghanistans fighting season of the taliban are at their strongest and the strategic plans for withdrawal that were offered it for the administration was a wellknown reality relating to the administration . Absolutely. There is 20 years of experience in the afghan fighting season which i performed was aware of it. It seems like in the execution of plans that north that reality. Would you agree with that . Absolutely. And how high would you rank timeliness so means for our Successful Mission concerning the taliban sees never gotten . That was well known for decades. It is extremely important. Some people focus on courses of action, but i would always argue that the timing of your operations absolutely matters just as much. One more question for you. And then i will move over the dais. But the rest of your, knowledge what agreements if any does the u. S. Make with the taliban after a couple cells . Im not privy to that. Does anybody die seven answer to that question, colonel kolenda . Do you know as well . Major . I do, not. Honor colonel, i want to come to you and thank you for your testimony. Youve got about a minute and a half. But i want to give you the opportunity to talk about anything weve not been able to emphasize today. That we need to take away as a lesson from this. As to what we need to do differently in the future. Well lessons can we learn that we have not discussed . We need to take a guess and approach to the disasters. We need of course to look at the medias disaster a their withdrawal and evacuation. Also, what got us there. If we dont were going to wind up in another war that ends up in disaster. I offered three of the immediate causes of collapse. And these rhyme across in afghanistan. The first one is the Afghan Government never bothered a buy in of the afghan people. As colonel colbert says, they became a predatory kleptocracy. Government of thieves were positions were for sale for absorbents amounts of money. The police chief in a province go for 3 million u. S. Dollars. In exchange for that by their position was able to use the position to make the money back. Land something can not paying for ransom and exporting our aid and Development Dollars at such era. All those actions pushed afghan into the insurgencies who were targeted killing our soldiers. A second major reason is that as colonel commercial site, the taliban were much more innovative. Weve got very complacent over 20 years. Believing that we in the Afghan Government believe that we can do the same thing over and over again. And expect similar results. When the taliban are innovating, military and politically and diplomatically, eventually by this number 2021, they have the upper hand. And sadly, many afghans saw the taliban as a lesser of two evils. Its third and finally, we have got to create some sort of doctrine that helps us build developing world militaries much more effectively. We cant afford to make them in our own image, and if it doesnt work there are other models that would have made the Afghan Military force sample able to stand on its own. And not simply collapse like a house of cards. Thats our fault, and we should fix that. Thanks, gentlemen. Mister chairman, i yield. Back thank you so much. Myself and Ranking Member were just agreeing on the fact that you are right, we cannot continue to model everything. Expect that to go forward. So thank you for that. Thats a great layout and the military doctrine drives it. I like to recognize the gentleman from georgia for five minutes, mr. Mccormack. Thank, you mister chair. And thank you for the witnesses. Thanks for your service. As i listen to not just the testimony but the people asking questions. A lot of joint service to you. An air force navy marine and army literally right in the. Row people, your brothers not ask you questions and understanding that you guys were there, you do that. We appreciate your testimony today. I will give us, when we talk about withdrawal for example, i remember one day withdrawal with this happening. In an experience that ive had in my life. I was not even there. Anybody who serves understandably have lost, the first we visit, the grave site, the time we spent away from her family. Continue to spend away from her family. All of them. The traumatic brain injuries, the limbs lost. 2461 deaths. Trillions, dollars 20 years of investment. Giving back to the people who are now 27 bases that are training terrorists now. That hurts. Im not over it yet. I dont think anybody is. When we hear people talk, about we just need to. Lauren youre right, we do need to learn less. And thats what this is about. Youve only talked, colonel, i really appreciate the Different Things weve mistakes on. The man, i think the location, all the witnesses have talked about. One of the things that we are not fully addressed in my opinion was the command climate. This goes all the way to the top. Im a doctor, and also military pilots. Both in the e. R. In the cockpit, ive empowered over in the room to stop me. I dont feel comfortable, theres nothing wrong with the way we are approaching. Theres nothing wrong with what we are doing a mission. In the, are we giving the wrong drugs. Anybody in the room can question the time. That explains climate. Excuse me from making mistakes. The question, is if you commanders, boots on the ground, were executing these missions as you saw is, you are giving feedback to have the same command climate. I dont feel comfortable with this. Do you feel like you are empowered . And have been heard and acknowledged . In your concerns . Ill consult with the colonel. Within the military structure and the, plan there was a lot of transparency in the options that we presented. And the orders we receive that we needed to execute. As i remarked earlier, there was some shock. A lot of shock. Some cynicism. A lot of us in a really bad feeling for was going to happen. I will say, however, that the military leaders, general mackenzie, general military, thats what we do in the military. Those are the best we could and, us and executing the best that we have the ability to do it. There were some cases, having to watch mackenzie get on tv and talk about abbey gate, which was really really difficult. And he had a serious burden to carry on his shoulders. And i think that what gets you through that is knowing that were doing the best we can in the military. And executed the best that we could. And the thing that is impossible to swallow is it was all wrapped up and washed away with failure to include over the afghanis. 100 . When you are in charge, youve got to listen to feedback from people. People your subordinates have to believe that the psychological confidence that they can go to you and say, here is we have to do instead. Im not privy to the inner workings of those conversations. In this particular incidences. I do know that historically, that lincoln didnt listen to mccaul, and the fdr disagreed with marshall about going to marshal wanted to go right into france and 1942, and fdr said no were going to go into north africa. Truman disagreed with mcarthur about the atomic bomb. So it is not unusual for leaders to take a lot in. Because if you look at a wider aperture. Im just speaking historically. Real quick, running it on time, its interesting. You are right. When you make the right decision, all hail for. It when you make the wrong decision, the only way to learn from this to say, i made the wrong decision. The problem, is in this case, camilla Sergeant Major if you look at the board, the command structure. All the way to the very top. Going to the top of your terms of covid. President the United States. Commanderinchief. You could say midwhen mcaleenan lincoln disagreed, when i or anybody else disagreed. We can talk about when the generals were relieved. And we can learn from those lessons. But we cannot learn from a lesson which is abject failure with no admissions. Of any mistakes. We talk about learning, when my friends across the aisle said we just need to learn from this. Stop playing politics with. It but we cannot learn if we did not admit it. Thats the problem really top boot. I cant learn if my patient is on the table and nobody can tell me i did something wrong in the e. R. I cant learn, certainly, if i crash my helicopter and everybody dies. For my mistake. In this, case i feel like we crash. And learn nothing. Because we cant even admit the mistakes that weve made. From the very top. Were gonna go into this, we have a problem right now. We dont talk about this. Were continuing to spend billions of dollars. This is not have to do with the withdrawal directly. This is still with this happening right now. I can people need to know. The afghan fun. Which is basically being transferred 3. 5 billion from the fund. The central banking systems, taking that news over whatever wants to. We are supporting terrorist organizations, essentially. And the idea that were doing something right, this is continued failed policy. Because youre not learn from our mistakes. This is what drives me crazy. We have a commensurate sovereign government does not listen to our military leaders. Does not listen to congress or anybody else. Because i think they know bass. And they continue to screw it up. Thats a bad climate are talking politics and military. And thats what we have to learn from. Thats what were here for today. I thank you, mister, chair and i yield. Now recognizing mr. Perry. Thanks,. Mister chairman gentlemen, thanks for your service and for coming. Im over here and i will tell you that i still have not gotten over the withdrawal from iraq and the 45 hundreds plus lives lost there, from what seems to be nothing inside of these families. Afghanistan is right up there. I was around watching. As a young man. Our young boy. Leaving the top of the embassy in hanoi. All remember when it was not going to be like. That it was not gonna be like leaving vietnam. We did not see that. Seen a c 17 with afghans hanging off the death. It is unimaginable. To people like, me and i matched folks like you. You are the mantra . Ours is not a question, why are they just to do and. I we, get that we signed up for that. At the same time, American People demand accountability for their loss and the blood is lost for their family members that are never coming back. For the equipping. For the Largest Terrorist Organization on the planets. The heel of the american taxpayer. Theyre carrying it orders for there and we dont know what the answer. Is a policy maker sometimes do not know what the answer is. Nobody is, perfect we are all short of the grace of gods. But when we make mistakes, weve got to learn from them. So we dont continue the same failed policy. It is our job to get accountability, not just to assign blame. We dont make the same day mistakes again. Nobody is going to join the service, and we will join the unified service if they know that nobody here gives a dam whether they live or die. We all love our country. We all want to do the right thing. Sergeant major, i am just so i still remain concerned abides choosing at hkia. As opposed to bagram. Was there a preexisting backup plan you know . Was there always that plan. And you know you had to collapse, and still say operable when you could collapse. To the extent that you had, to stay operable. And also required to secure the embassy. Not in the same location, knowing that you had the forces available to secure both. Probably either one. Whats the plan . There is a preexisting neil plan. Im not sure when it was panned, exactly. I want to say was our 2012. In that plan, the plan was to conduct was it just a backup . Was there going to be a choice of either location . Or was, it really is this one and win this one feels were gonna get that one. Do you know what the determinations, what the determining factors of which 20 years, because everything was set up for but nothing was set up for hkia. The plan for vogue ram was written in 2012. We cannot predict what was going to happen in the future. The enemy always gets the boat. No plans arise first contact. The exact triggers never for my recollection of that plan was about an 800page documents. I do not recall what the trigger specifically were. To launch. None of us here want him on the one in quarterback, especially in uniform. But in retrospect, all of us have worn the uniform are scratching our heads saying that was a hard point, that was a place we are most prepared to take a stand. Ive actually. From thats where everything was located. Thats what were familiar with. Why the did we not do that . There were a lot of lives lost, we dont focus on everything in the final days move seems like its for nothing, absolutely, because everything will one of them is precious and in my remaining time, mr. Turmeric, you mentioned the concept of selective intelligence and the issues that it posed on the mission. If you know it now, after the fact, what was not mentioned, what was, if you know exactly through this selective intelligence process . What can we learn from that . The plan that was ordered to the military to execute goes back to the first objective of the withdrawal in the post withdrawal. Which is having that diplomatic space sets in kabul. And that looks like the embassy, four miles over to isekhaya. The problem with that is ignored all the taliban threats which we described here today. Which is only then getting steadily more refined and more dangerous over 20 years. So when you pick thats plan but you choose to not acknowledge or protect against this red form that is coming, it just leaves you flabbergasted how you think this is going to go. My time has expired in their good people. We want to follow up with one quick one based on that. Thats what everyone else sees. Why . Why did we just ignore . Why and who . Who made the decision to ignore if we can pinpoint it . Cant describe motives. What do you intend or supposedly motive to ignore it . It was not in the room. I know what was recommended. The course of action, i know it was given back to execute. It was giving back to us to execute, is not what we recommended. The four star level is when he made the decision. It resides with the president. Somewhere in there would be the person that they try to defy. Thank you, mr. Perry. Now going to mr. Crane for five. Minutes thank, you mister chairman. For allowing me to join the dais today. Thank you everyone who has shown up here. Witnesses, especially think the families, goals their families are here today. I want to agree with a couple of my colleagues that spoke already on this topic. Congressman mills, and congressman waltz. I have talked about this argument on the other side of the aisle, that is complete garbage. If this administration had no choice, theyre basically just tracking with what the Administration Prior had than. Had been leading up to. I want to double tap on the then you just said, which is obviously the administration did not continue the policy of the Previous Administration when it comes to the Border Energy economics and some of the other things. So i want to debunk and fact check that false claim right now. Thats exactly what it is. I also want to acknowledge this administration, did not listen to the leaders on the grounds. They were recommending against their plan. Many of the witnesses have testified, so far, thats one of the main mistakes we made in previous wars. Where people in states back in washington do not listen to kind of on the grounds. I also want to acknowledge seven billion in equipment. 40,000 vehicles. 300 passing weapons. All columns equipment. This is a thing that scares me the most. Somebody serves on the team. Nearly all night vision equipment. And anybody who has ever done any special operations in modern warfare knows how dangerous it will be for the next group of americans. Or the next group of allies that goes in there. To deal with someone friendly individuals. All biometric which is being used to hunt down our allies. I cannot even believe that that when i read that report it was like, oh my god. For this administration, that is appalling. I want to point out something that bothers me. Severely, john kirby, the white house spokesman on april 6th, 2023, made the quote in a press conference. All this talk of chaos, i just did not see it. Colonel cameron, did you hear john kirby say that . I did not hear him say. That but i wildly disagree with that statement. Colonel kolenda, did you hear him say that or seen on tv . I did not see on tv. But that sentiment makes me sick to my stomach. 13 to the soldiers. Let me ask you guys. Do the soldiers live lost their lives in these families, these gold star families, especially ones in the room today, do they deserve this administration and our leaders take ownership of the leadership file values that led to this catastrophe . Colonel cameron, ill start with you. The sacrifice by the gold star families in the loss of the 13th Service Members is something that haunts all of us. I had a chance to talk to them before we came in here. They told him this story of the generals family, how theyre now living in the United States and lori Success Story for what happens. But their losses something i will never accept. Thank you. That is not asking, sir. They deserve, and only this warrant charge of this debacle, take ownership. Absolutely. How about, you chronicle into . In terms of ownership, theyre both accepting responsibility for decisions. In determining causes for why those disasters specifically happening why they keep happening. Thats where id like to have accountability. Sergeant, major. These families in these marines, they deserve to have leadership take accountability. Sir, i have a son and a daughter. What would happen to them in the same regard, they want answers, absolutely. Mr. , chairman ive got two questions, ill make them quick. The family behind you, there clearly morning. By nodding your head, yes or no, you feel like this administration is taking ownership of accountability. Yes or no . I didnt think so. The lasting want to ask, you gentlemen, is this. Are you worried about this current chain of command . It is responsible for this disaster. Are you worried about them being able to be successful in the war that we are now careening towards and ukraine . Are you worried about their ability to be successful . And that war . We have talked a lot today about avoiding past mistakes. Weve seen what they are capable of. Are you guys concerned about that . Im concerned about the administrations ability to do it. Im not concerned about the military leaders that we have, because theyre the finest cut of the american fabric. Thank, you sir. What about you, colonel kolenda . Im not an expert on the ukraine fights, but i cant give you the answer. Okay. Thank you. I yield back. Im not gonna move to mr. Gonzales. Thank you so much for hosting this event, and coming up. Many of people who are in this room today are a part of the more your class and then based on fighting and winning war as this nation has fought. Part of that is honoring the ball. And i want to start by mentioning all 13 names and we dont mention the 13 soldiers and trailers that were killed about a year ago. Harmon, slow, back 22 years old from burning, heights ohio. Staff sergeant darwin hoover, 31 years old from salt lake city, utah. Sergeant john a carla, 25. In florence, massachusetts. Nikole, 3 26 from sacramento, california. Corporal hundred, lopez 22 from india, california. Corporal of 23, 24 from oklahoma, nebraska. Sanchez, 22 from logansport, indiana. Marie corporal, lance corporal, espinosa from rio bravo texas. Lets corporal smith, 20, from st. Charles, missouri. Lets corporal mccollum, 20 years old. From jackson, my only. From cucamonga, california. Lance corporal karine nikoui from new york, california. Sergeant ryan now, 23, reporting in tennessee. When our dad. And it is the fallen for our country. We also have leaders make sure we dont have to read the names that were hearing. Part of that is, im concerned with what happens. No doubt. I spent 20 years in the military. I am a retired master chief. I spent five years in iraq and afghanistan. Like many of us in this, around afghanistan is very personal to us. I grew up there. Like a lot of us, spent time. There im also a navy master chief and i dont believe in excuses. I believe in results. And im focused, its absolutely tragic what happens. We also have soldiers. Some regions syria. In iraq. Around the world. These wars, we are gonna at times have whats wrong. Thats the way the world works. We have to learn from what happened to make sure that we dont read more names when we withdraw from this place. Part of that is, you gentlemen. , please continue to tell your story. Continue to be an advocate in this group. In this sphere. So that way we can prevent future incidents from occurring. Its also on us. As legislatures, to do our part and make sure those are held accountable and that we are prepared in every form or fashion. Like 20 to spend my time honoring those who have fallen, and also mentioned is our responsibility to make sure that the next conflict, the current conflict, we dont have the same debacle that we have. The fact that i had to read 13 names, it clearly shows there is an issue there and once again less about excuses more about results. Its going to be the warrior class that determines that we fight through the politics. Thank you, gentlemen. I yield back. Chairman, i yield back. Where neil to mr. Nine for five minutes. Thank you very much to the families who are here first and foremost. To those of you where the final safeguards, the breach if you will, the president helped evacuate as Many Americans and allies and friends. Who concern with us. And the gratitude. Farright iraq in afghanistan more than a member. We commit a pilot, in that first term airman operating a top in the back of a recon plane. You are all equal. Were gonna talk about what worked, and we did not work. You are the only one hearing administration, and about that after action looks like for the withdraw of afghanistan. I dont think any of us should have a look back and will that whatever happened in august, couldnt happen to our combat allies ever again. President biden said this would be no vietnam. Lifting a buildings he was absolutely correct. It was far worse. Right now Afghan Government completely by surprise by the lack of information provided. The u. S. Government chose it highlighted today. It was only with our allies and our coast partners, for the men and women who are on the front lines. Men and women like corporal that guns play for my district. Young lorraine who is one of 13 whose failing a stance as gold star families. Because he gave the ultimate sacrifice. Charged with defending abby gates, deciding who got to live in who are left behind, he was provided critical intel gaps. Arguably selectively Buddy Administration who wanted to drive a timeline based on the calendar day. Not by facts on the ground. He gave his life and his family is proud and we are honored. So Many Americans live today because a sacrifice and the sacrifices so many other families like that. We can never sleep you enough. We stand here in the breach so this does not happen again. France, when the helicopters left afghanistan, it was maybe their president. But so many more afghan allies developed this b17s, leaving isekhaya. Something which arguably could have been avoided. In todays testimony, i want to go into detail today about how we got to a point that we abandons the airport base. The ability top undergone brass could have traded more to push back against President Biden after he rejected their advice, to leave a residual presence in afghanistan primarily protecting wagner . I thought about this question. And gone back and forth. They can speak for the military leadership. They were in a very difficult position, when they give the present their best course of action recommendation, and it was not chosen. We have a decision at that point. You continue to follow the president said or step away . I commands them for holding the line. Because i wouldve still done. It best position to do it as responsibly as we can in a very strict guardrails that were put on that course of action. And i had to be the face of it. They were man enough to stand up there. And look right on the barrel of the camera, as things fell apart, and give some responsibility for something they did not recommend. Understood. Let me ask the next question. What wouldve been the impact of the United States have been able to keep bagram and not be committed to an artificial deadline that share intelligence on the ground . If the real threat had been able to get more americans more allies, and ultimately protect bagram american war spaces that we couldve had the evacuation that wouldve caused lest failure . Colonel, for you . I can only guess. Because that is not what happened. But i know that we would have had more space and time. To be able to try if the condition for afghan allies to have a set for what was coming and it would not have been this immediate rip out that left them looking where did we go in the middle of the fighting season and they wouldve had the chance on not saying the outcome would have changed. I dont know that in theres no way they wouldve relieved the tea leaves of future. I would not have a chance we wouldve banned them to exactly what happened. I understand the you have delayed your apply myths that you could be here today. Its both admirable and greatly appreciated. Anne you highlight the fact that transitioning and bagram we left a well defended base for thousands of troops. Important to defend a rearguard action in the base of what was known to be Insurgent Forces any day the commercially capital. But instead, he and the team were, as you, noted part of 100 infantry man and marines. Defending an International Airport under siege from both sides. In your testimony, you cited the election to my u. S. Department raised a personal comfort to the consideration of whether to use bagram. Can you please elaborate on that . Specifically does the state department give the impression they were reluctant to move officials there, because this space was less comfortable . At a military base like bagram . It is a great indication, yes. They say departments most foresee depart officials, evacuating u. S. Personnel. Classified information and sensitive items going forward. Im not privy to the decisionmaking process occurred at the embassy. Thank you, mister chair. I read just like to begin with appreciation for those who have served and continue to serve. So many on this committee have stood up to be able to stand in the breach with, you including our own passport kharkiv evacuees over 3000 americans are allies, with no help from the u. S. State department, this after action is the only insult we have into what is happening. And while i praise you for being here, there are meant for about your station that should be in this room, justifying their actions today so they can never happen. Again with, that mister chair, i think. You killed my time back. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your questions. I will just say right now, i see something happening that i actually never seen here before. And it makes me proud. And it is, i have colleagues that are sitting down there with your Service Members and with gold star families. Just to let them know that theyre not sitting above them, theyre not detached from them, but there with them. The part of the same fight. During the same dirt in a sense. And showing that connectivity. And honestly, ive never seen it before in time, very truly makes me proud to see it. We tomorrow, vigils mr. The yield five minutes. Thank, you mr. Chairman i want to thank you guys for being here. I appreciate the connection, major. Take care of the boys university, and the. Gross appreciate your efforts. My personal history in afghanistan, i did not get there until 2003. For the first tour. I held one of my friends hands as he died. In the old cash. When it was a tense, so by phone next to his ear listening to his wife prior to him. She used to never see her husband alive again. When this started happening my wife told me just to go back to afghanistan. But the group suffered through the testimony, in abu dhabi or the. Processing people that civilian extractions with the help of a foreign governments. Because our government willfully and knowingly abandoned american citizens and our allies to terror. So i got a couple questions for you guys. Was there when planned for this . Colonel . I did not see a written plan for the specific mission. Im sure there were some given, though. Weaving through, here you are playing. With excellence of years to figure this out, everybody from the Biden Administration says there has four died because of the doha agreement. They should know that something was happening. And i see Biden Administration, i meet secretary blinken, general austin, and general milley, they are all culpable in the taxable these people. Because they are incapable of doing their job. Im a retired navy, shouldve thrown that out. So i understand that this is the purview of the state department. And if they waited so long to turn this over to the d. O. D. , theyre responsible for these people staffs. That is a fact. I have a nephew on your vast military experience ever heard of a plan where you intentionally withdraw all the military forces that are protecting civilians before you pull the civilians out . Anybody . No. Other colonel . Douglas mcarthur said that every military disaster can be described in two words, too late. Very well. Sergeant major . Why did the Biden Administration, near opinion ill ask you this question. Why did the Biden Administration continue to lie about the number of american citizens that they will fully commit terrorists in afghanistan . I couldnt even begin to speculate. And willing to accept the fact of the biden ministration kept moving the ball and admitted to terrorists in afghanistan knowingly and willingly . And say the statement i commit from the administration did not match the fact that we are clearly seeing on the ground. Co thank you, was troubled w of evacuees for not people who were afghans who had worked for the u. S. Government or the u. S. Military. Ive got interpreters on the ground who were trying to get them out and thats withdraw was often the withdrawal of the well connected and not the people who are siv holders. That deserves serious examination. And we have our native allies have been fighting this a long time, when the lithuanian were trying to get a tornado, im a very nato allies wanted to follow this timeline and get out of afghanistan on the arbitrary timeline that the biden ministration set . How many of our allies wanted to go on that timeline, to the best of your knowledge, colonel . Now that i know of. Colonel . Im not privy to that. I am, the answer is zero. Nobody wanted to leave from nato. This has been a nato fight for a period of time and you guys even addressed it. This wouldve fractured nato. Its unbelievably irresponsible that the Biden Administration would completely blow off all of our nato allies. None of them wanted to leave and then everybody quotes that we have 2500 u. S. Forces in the country, thats not enough. Thats not true it wouldve been 10 to 12,000 forces on it would have been and and in the. Wind special forces, t f one 80, all the guys, it wouldve been the same thing. Theyre lying. Here is the most important question i can ask anybody here, who has been fired for this . No one. Colonel, to your knowledge . Know that i know of. This is the most disgraceful thing i could think of that the u. S. Government has ever done in our entire history. Zero people have been held accountable from the Biden Administration, zero. Right . How about the military writ large . Zero. As a ground force commander, what is he doing now . Do you guys know . Do you . Do you know who was . Admiral beasley ended general donahue. I will say in their defense, they were given an impossible situation and they showed extraordinary leadership when every single aspect of what was going on turn to the total chaos for things or a side of the control. I get it. Senator tom cotton, when he was questioning general milley, asked him one thing. Why have you not resigned yet . Milley said it would be a profoundly political statement. I wish tom cotton, who i respect, really did one more followup question. General, milley intentionally abandoning american citizens that our allies to terrorists, many of them to certain death, its not worth the political statement. Then what in your estimation, general milley, is . None of these people were there and were giving the passes. Im not. These general officers should have resigned on the spot, gone on television and said this is wrong. You know that takes . That takes courage. We have so many things wrong with our military at senior levels in the Biden Administration, its embarrassing. These, people and calling for them to resign. General milley should not have a retirement, he should not. General austin, i dont know what he should be doing but he should not be leading our military. Hes a disgrace. Mister chairman, i appreciate you allowing me to speak my piece here, i yield back. Thank you for joining us today. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Ive heard a lot of things today, i appreciate every bit of what ive heard and i appreciate you offering us your candor and honesty. I asked you bear with me for a couple more minutes of questioning. I want to talk about the s iv, the planning, operations that weve done in large. When i think about, planning i think about how you come up with an objective that you want to meet, every have an objective that you want, come up with a strategy and tactics by what you think are going to accomplish that objective. And then you do something really important. He practice it. So, you can see what goes right and what it was wrong. How things play out when the metal hits the meat, as they say. Let me start with a broad question. Colonel, to your knowledge, what level of practice took place on this is a general question. Here, knowledge what level of practice took place . On there is no time when the order was given to start withdrawing, when the announcement came out on the 14th of april, one may, we saw water rolling and basically sucked all the train from all those stations in afghanistan coming back to do an extraordinarily difficult task. There is no time to be able to go through a full rehearsal, in adapt now. Let me ask some specifics on this. Was it that not practiced if a suicide bomber person, vehicle borne iud or Something Else went off at one of the excess points . Units have that already baked into what they do for their battle drills, for their standing operating procedures. One of the reasons the speed was so important with withdrawal from a planning perspective was to try to limit the exposure area for Service Members that would be, frankly, vulnerable during the time period of withdraw. The reason i ask about practice for, that Sergeant Major, you brought up that you were talking about the level of Services Available at bagram versus isekhaya. He said the level of service there was maybe a level two hospital. Near opinion, didnt matter that it was a level two medical facility and not a level three medical facility . Sir, if one of my soldiers were to get wounded, i would want a level three there. Why . For the greater lifesaving ability. Let me ask some more. Some practice questions. Was it ever practiced that there would be thousands evacuated on the civilian flights thats pulled cash out of their wallets . It flew halfway around the world . To get people out of what was effectively standing more some . Colonel karen . No. Was it practices in their fields could be overrun by 1000 . No, not in the situation. Or overrun by 10,000 . And we have to bagram, that was practice. There was a scenario. That was exercised continually. You offer this analysis based, on your practice at bagram but not in isekhaya . Im not privy to what happened in isekhaya. I was not there. But i can say the contingency was well were harassed plan for. How many airstrips at bagram . How many runways . There are two main runways you can take off from the time aware of. Was a practice that they maybe went down one runway in isekhaya . I dont know that it was. There is a lot of these questions that we can ask about, about what was practiced and planned for unprepared for. And as i think about the hundreds of those i can ask, largely the answer comes back to, it was not thought. About whether it was given the time to think about it, or somebody thought about it and so meghan want to hear about it. They want possible deniability, i will pretend to put myself into somebody elses mind. But there was a willful ignorance. Let took place with this withdrawal. Cost the lives of Service Members. Practice to hear you out, mr. Cameron. Or colonel. Appear to me that there is a willful ignorance. The facts bear that out. What my colleagues have already said on this, other than that it caught the cell in the loss of our Service Members. It leaves as theyre still surveying. And those that are still mourning. With a question of, what is changed . And i cant come away after several hours of questioning with you. And tell the, this is what has changed. This is who learned the lesson. And who would say, yes id absolutely do that differently. And thats not what i want to be like. Thats all i can say on that. In that, its going to weigh soils joining us. Mr. Banks. I recognize you for five minutes. I thank the chairman for holding this hearing, its so important. To this point, no one has he has been held accountable for the disastrous deadly, embarrassing withdrawal from afghanistan. In, fact last, year general frank mckenzie, then retired general in charge of says he himself has many regrets about with happen in afghanistan. In march of this year, i asked secretary austin in the House Armed Services committee, do you have any regrets . General mackenzie has regrets and general austin secretary of defense for the United States of america, were seeing this withdrawal, youve any regrets . He said, ive no regrets. Im wondering for each of you, how does that make you feel . When you hear the talk later of our pentagon and our military say is no regrets about what happened in afghanistan . Colonel, well start with you. Extremely frustrated and let down. I lost six soldiers from my unit in afghanistan in 2007. The fact that there have not been an examination of why these failures, vietnam are is very frustrating to me. Because it seems that the next time we get into one of these interventions, were gonna make this same basic mistake. And heighten the risk of another disaster. I find that unacceptable. Sir, this is my current leadership. Im not in position to speak on this question. One eventually be able to tell us what you really. Thank the arrogance to say, that the families behind here, they lost loved ones and the heroes that we lost and that deadly day another deadly days, they have no regrets and to me it was the best freshman in the war in afghanistan. Who served with others, heroes that we lost. To say that i have no regrets. Respond to, that colonel. All combat bedrooms have regrets. Ive been fortunate with the va helping me. I have a team that helps we work through that every day. I find thats prominent tone deaf and not tethered to reality. We have to have regrets that we should. September 10th, 2001 there now. Its only getting worse. There is nothing but regret and pain and struggle there. So upon that statement to be wildly painful for everyone who has had to put in blood and sweat and tears to the family that lost their family members. Its got me absolutely love it. I dont know what i would but i strongly disagree on every level. Can you unpack more about what happened leading up to the withdrawal . One discussion today about the decision to close up bagram and rely on the very public airport in kabul to withdraw. But can you tell us more about, for general austin, who lectures in afghanistan associates no regrets, talk more about that decision to close down bagram that led to the devastation that happened in kabul. How can you say he had no regrets when obviously those were terrible decisions that were made . I cant speak for secretary austin. Can explain why that happened from a planners perspective. We had society in this concept that wed be able to run this diplomatic island in perpetuity in kabul was something that the administration decided that was what was going to happen. They forgot that the enemy gets a vote and wished away a lot of these other issues i clearly came to pass. That everybody was, warning not just a military leadership but also the inter agency indicated Intelligence Community was just telegraphing every day. I find it i just cannot figure out the decisionmaking. And i know why they picked isekhaya, is as close to the embassy, and they fell in love with their plan. I spent a lot of time at both places, bagram and the north isekhaya throughout kabul. Its a decision that will never make sense to, me i hope one day we can unpack it more. I want to finish with one, question my time has almost expired. Mills dug into this question. President trump let us do a path to withdraw from afghanistan but keep a light footprint of special Operation Forces there in place, there. I, wonder colonel, if we wouldve adopted that planted that course of action, with those lives like we have been saved that day he . Speaking as a retired green beret myself, i have no doubt in my mind of that, if we had green berets, seals, air for special operations and holding the picket line with our afghan, especially the afghan that were, there we wouldve stood a much greater chance to build time and space, to work on all the things that needed to be worked on in kabul. I thank you for that answer. To families that are, here i will spend the rest of my time in congress fighting for accountability for those who made this ridiculous and stupid decision that led to the loss of your loved ones. I promise you that. With that, mister chairman, i yield back. Thank, you my friend. All now recognize mr. Crow for five minutes for a closing statement. Thank, you chairman, thank you all the witnesses for coming in today. Theres a lot of ground covered, i appreciate your candor and your testimony and your work. Again, i want to recognize the gold star families for being here. I cant imagine how challenging it is to listen to this and rehash this and see some of those videos, which of course we needed to see. The American People, we all needed to see that, we cant shy way from the reality. But for being here today, im grateful on. We are due to, things i first want to address some issues that i think you are incorrect but and that i think some of my colleagues made. Some statements. Second, i want to provide some context about the timeline and the situation as i see it. Number one, a lot of comments about the president s statement classifying the withdrawal as a success on. Criticism of that statement. That statement, to be, clear was in the context of him applauding the military and our troops and our soldiers. Applauding their sacrifice and their service with the withdrawal. Thats the same type of statement that i would, make that they were tired under extraordinarily difficult circumstances, under circumstances that they largely shouldnt have had to address but they did their job and they did it well and they did it remarkably. Thats what the president was talking about. Second, a couple of folks have mentioned that we havent had any testimony from officials involved in the withdrawal or even active and ministration officials that have come before this committee. Thats because a majority hasnt called them. In a testimony has been great, ive appreciated it all. But if the majority wants to hear from those folks, its a majority that can call the panel of sitting officials. I think that criticism is a non sequitur as well on. The second is, you can disagree about the logistics and the timeline but theres also been a number of comments out of it right said that the administration and certain officials, including lifelong Service Members, people have dedicated their life to this country, accused them of lying and covering things up, of obfuscating the truth. Listen, there is no indication that anyone was acting in bad faith. I disagree with folks all the time, i have my disappearance with the uniform people, of my disagreements with the administration sometimes on a variety of issues. Whether its afghanistan or ukraine, because i have an independent obligation as a member of congress to uphold my views. Im not going to just rubberstamp anybody but, to be clear, ive never, for an instant, that that anyone who is acting in bad faith or wanted u. S. Soldiers to be killed or put into a difficult situation or lied about anything. Lets just be real about that. I think we owe to folks to have disagreements and debates about him on the facts. But accusing people of bad faith is just not appropriate. For my part, i did disagree with the timeline. I was very vocal in 2021 that the withdrawal and evacuation shouldve started earlier. We talked about it in the media. I pressed folks for it, without that is soon as the president announced in weber of 2021 that we are going to abide by the doha agreement and that withdrawal, that that withdrawal shouldve happened earlier and we couldnt spread it out and done it in a more mid of brickell way, thats my agreement in my view. But the situation was a tough minded i do want to provide that perspective very quickly in a time that i have one. President trump engaged his representatives into the taliban where to negotiate the doha agreement. The doha agreement was agreed to and we started our reduction of troops as a result of that on. I want to enter into the record and open statement before this committee in june of 20 2021 by deputy special representative for afghanistan reconciliation ambassador molly fee, if i may. The statement which is in the record, i will read the whole thing, its very clear that theres no indication that the Prior Administration took into account the talibans compliance with that agreement or they made the unilateral decision to withdraw troops. He ambassador who is in the room said this, no indication it was going to happen. We had a situation where the taliban knew we are pulling out. That pull out had already started, we are at the lowest troop levels in years. The taliban was, advancing taking provinces, taking capitals, had momentum and was on the march. In the january of 2020 or 20, one when President Biden came into office, they had no transition. The Prior Administration wasnt even recognizing this administration as a lawful president , so they didnt transition what their people on noon on january 2021. They walked in knowing, nothing having no transition, no briefing, no plans in place. The embarked on a twomonth process to try to get their hands around the issue and figure out what was going on. Then they made the decision to abide by the agreement because we had very few troops there. We were being told in the intelligence was showing that the taliban was going to start attacking us again if we didnt withdraw in time. The decision the president had to make was one of two things. Withdraw under the timeline and do it as quickly as possible or stay there and fight. Fight hard, harder than we wouldve had to fought for years. U. S. Soldiers would have been fighting and dying then too. Tough decisions. So, yes, things couldve been done differently. Im very clear about that. Their Lessons Learned and we will make sure, mister chairman, working with my colleagues, that we learned these lessons and do that better. There is a broader context that was important. Its not as simple as folks would like you to believe it is. I yield back. I think the Ranking Member for his closing statement i recognize myself for a closing statement. We tend to go after each other from time to time, but i dont think it winds on a recognition of each others service. I have to do the same dirt as you. I hope you join me in an invitation to the ultimate Decision Maker to sit before us and answer questions about this. I would certainly offer that invitation. I do, i believe there are people literally working, i would say speaking, in bad faith. I say that as i was doing my preparation for this hearing and this didnt just take place this week. Ive done timeline after timeline over the years but specifically in preparation for this hearing. And he probably doesnt pages at least of the comments and the remarks from the white house, from jen psaki. I know when i layer those on top of what was actually going on at the time, what she was telling the American People of care and representation of President Biden of, it was not what was taking place. Day after day, daily coming to the press pool. , speaking saying something was happening or going to happen and then its simply not being the reality of of what the ultimate Decision Makers knew was really taking place. And we know, i guess we can say we have testimony, that there was selective reading of the intelligence of as is always the case. Intelligence comes in varying degrees of confidence. We didnt really get into the confidence of the intelligence out presented today idea, maybe as another day that will get a do it. But in my personal opinion, on there was not an adequate amount of planning that was done i. There is not planning that was done to take into account on what was probable and was possible. Was planning at the smallest level to take into account what was a hope for. And ive said this before and i will say it again now as my closing remarks. Im well aware of the fact that sometimes in war there is just bad luck on. A bullet is an inch or two inches to the left or right. It couldve gone the other way, we dont even know that something wouldve happened. In rpg, a piece of fragmentation, little piece of aluminum fragmentation catches person or a soldier in the wrong place card. Home order hits too close to someplace, youre too close to a vehicle borne ied, also possible hazards that exist in war sometimes. Its bad luck. In my assessment i, what happened at the withdrawal of ice in a skin was not bad luck. Here he was bad planning, bad objectives. It was a failure to practice. It resulted in incredibly bad results for some of our very best. And for the United States of america and our allies has a whole moore. Or in that, i will conclude my closing remarks. I will thank each of you witnesses for your testimony. I found it to be frank, forthright and i feel as though i am better informed for having listened to you, each of you, today. Thank you for that. I think our gold star families for, again, joining us. As all of our colleagues have thank to you and rightly so. You raised patriots and weve had an opportunity to speak about the paid that youve gone through. I would begin to say that understand, it because i wouldnt put myself in that place. Oh my word girl stumped there to, i couldnt imagine we deal with day in day out, but of in that, i will say whatever the formal part of this tells me to say. Pursuant to Committee Rules mauve, ten days to submit extraneous materials for the record. The committee stands adjourned. Thank you. Cspan is your unfiltered view of government. 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Secretary blinken speaks at a gathering of Young Leaders from subsaharan africa, he discusses the influence that Young Africans will have on the world noting that 60 of african populations is under the age of 25. The event is in washington dc