There are plenty of public issues right now that i want to ask you about, but i want to defer that for a moment and talk about service itself. And i want to start by talking about how you came by service, because you came by it naturally. You grew up in a family of service. Tell me about your dad, who was quite an interesting person. Adm. Mcraven first, thank you for the invitation to join you today, this is terrific. I certainly enjoy spending time with you and the students of the iop. You are right, i came by it naturally. My father was a world war ii Fighter Pilot. Flew spitfires, actually, which was a british airplane, because at the time when we entered the war, americans did not have planes to take on the german messersmith, so the british loaned us spitfires. But my grandfather also served in world war i and in world war ii. He was an army surgeon. My dad, later in life as i was getting ready to join the service, he said, i remember what got me in the service. It was when i was a young boy, i saw the soldiers heading off to france in world war i board the trains in his small town. He said, there was such a sense of pride, there was such a sense of duty and patriotism that it was infectious. That is in addition to obviously watching his father, that really spurred him to join the military and then i grew up as an air force brat and loved my time in the military families, and just seeing the remarkable dedication of not only military members but their families. Mr. Axelrod how does an air force brat end up in the navy seals . Adm. Mcraven [laughter] well, good question. I had thought about flying and my dad having been a Fighter Pilot was kind of nudging me in that direction. Interestingly enough, i think it was close to my senior year in high school, my sister was dating an Army Green Beret and of course this was after the movie with john wayne had come out, the green berets. I had this fascination with green berets. This young army captain came to pick her up for a date and she was, as usual, kind of late, so i was entertaining the young captain and he said, what are you getting ready to do . I said, i think i am going to join the navy. I have an rotc scholarship. He said, you better become a navy seal. This was back in 1973. I had never heard of the navy seals. Nobody had heard of the navy seals at that time. Here, you had an Army Green Beret telling me to be a navy seal. And that really is what headed me in that trajectory. Mr. Axelrod and you spent 37 years in the seals. You can explain the bullfrog title. And special operations became more and more significant. You literally wrote the book on it. Why has special operations become such an important part of defense . Adm. Mcraven when you look back over the history, the modernday history of special operations, of course we had a little bit of a heyday during world war ii. You saw these remarkable operations done by all of the services, including u. S. Forces, under both the oss, which was the predecessor to the cia, and of course we had navy frogman in world war ii and we had army special operations. After world war ii, it waned a little bit, picked up a little bit in korea, but then in vietnam, the navy seals came about and they were born from the underwater demolition teams and they earned a remarkable reputation fighting the insurgency in vietnam. But then again, after vietnam, and this tends to happen after major wars, the reliance or expectations that we will need special operations again kind of declines, which it did. Then, when we had the disaster at desert one, the country did a reassessment of, gee, do we need special operations . The answer was, of course we need them. Now, we need to professionalize them. Congress put in place the special Operations Command and then we really began to institutionalize or professionalize special operations. By the time 9 11 came along, we were bar none the finest special Operations Force in the world. The question becomes, why do you need them . Im always quick to point out, special operations have a unique niche. They are not going to be able to stop the North Koreans from coming south. They are not going to be able to keep the strait of hormuz open, theyre not going to be able to stop the chinese from invading taiwan, but the things we do we do exceedingly well. We are very surgical. We can get into a country, work with the allies in a way that sometimes larger battalions cant. And of course, you saw from 9 11, the hunt for terrorists, the insurgent fight in iraq and afghanistan. Those were right in our wheelhouse. The force has grown tremendously over the last 20 years and have done a remarkable job. Mr. Axelrod let me ask you about the military generally. We tend to draw from a rather small pool of americans right now. There is no draft. When your dad enlisted, all of america was in that war, mostly men who were fighting, and everyone else who was pitching in some other way. A student wrote to me as i was preparing for this and asked me to ask you about why there is not more diversity in the upper echelons of the military, and does that have to do with disparities in the American Education system . That is one question. And another is, just generally, what does it mean for the country that such a small pool of people carry such a large burden . Adm. Mcraven there is a lot to unpack in that question so let me hit the diversity issue first. I think we are continuing to make progress in terms of diversity in the United States military. But as you know, we were a segregated military until 1947, 1948, when truman initiated the integration. Then you began to see the rise of africanamericans in terms of being in more prominent positions, but you still had the challenges of the Civil Rights Era and jim crow. When i came in, in 1977, there was a lot of racial tension in the military. Early on, and i think it was probably 1962 the actual term affirmativeaction came about, but i did not really see it until the 1980s sometimes. And you would sit on promotion boards. The military understood, we need to increase our diversity. So we had an aggressive affirmative action program. When an officers record would come up, it would say minority or female. And we had a quota. At first, there was a bit of a reluctance to approach it this way. But what we found was it was not that we did not have great talent in the diverse pool, but we were not giving them the opportunity. So once we were able to prime the pump by putting great people, talented people in positions of responsibility, then, after a while, we realized we no longer needed to single out minorities because we had built a deep bench that were beginning to rise in prominence. We saw the talent in the minorities and female population. In my career, i have been blessed to work for colin powell and lloyd austin and i worked for the first black female fourstar in the navy. So you are beginning to see a recognition, and i think you have seen it for a while, but it is improving. But we always have to make greater strides. We have to continue to make sure we are promoting the right people. You see cq brown running the air force now. When i am asked this question about cq brown, the first africanamerican chief of staff of the air force, i tell people very quickly, if you think he was chosen because he was africanamerican, you dont know cq brown. He was chosen because he was the best person for the job. He happens to be africanamerican and he will be a great role model for the kids in both the air force, army, navy, and marine corps. But he was chosen because he is the best person for the job and we need to continue that march forward. Mr. Axelrod you do have this disparate, at the rankandfile level, youve got large minority representation. But you know, it relates to a larger point, which is, i always felt like service during world war ii created a kind of commonality among americans of different backgrounds. And i am sure you found that you served with people of different backgrounds and it broadened you. This aspect of service and the value of service, how do we recapture that . Because we live in such a polarized time between rural and urban and different communities in our country. How do we, through service, attack that . Adm. Mcraven well, to your point, david, you see the young men and women coming into the service and you may get a white kid from the south and a black kid from chicago, and once they find themselves in the same squad, in the same company, the same platoon, all of a sudden, those differences begin to fall away and they realize they have a lot more in common than they do apart, and their differences dont matter when they are focused on a particular mission or an objective. Thats the great thing about the service. That has always been the great thing about the service. You are right, what we tend to find today is the demographics of the Service Continue to be more in the south than the north. They seem to be more middleclass than they are upperclass. But i think this serves us well when you find these young kids that come in, they serve their time of the military, and a lot of them get out and become great citizens of the United States. And you see many of them today serving in congress. Weve got to continue to encourage men and women to join the service. I would like to see a National Service program whereby it is not just about the service in the military, but how do we create Something Like a National Service academy where men and women, much like the Naval Academy or west point, the air force academy, they are selected by congressmen, they come to a Service Academy for four years, and they join a Service Corps and have a career in this. The difference is the focus is domestically. So, we are going to teach people to be civil engineers, to be teachers, we are going to teach them skills that are going to help the country, and then we assign them places like in flint, michigan. Can they improve the Water Quality . I think National Service is important, but until that happens, we need to encourage young men and women to join. I think that will absolutely help the polarization you see today. At least, that is my hope. Mr. Axelrod another question that came my way, which i thought was really good, what is the one thing that admiral mcraven wishes his younger self would have known before going into this field . Adm. Mcraven yeah, i think the answer is, everything is going to be ok. [laughter] and i know that sounds simple, but when you are a young ensign and you are trying to do the best job you can and challenges get in your way, all of a sudden, they become the most important thing in your life and you worry about them constantly, when in fact they may not be all that critical. And you just do the best job you can. When i look back on 37 years and i think about the times i sweated things, i think that is good, you have to take your obligations seriously, but i wish i would have been a little bit more relaxed and realized that you work hard, you work through things, your friends and your colleagues will help you through tough times, and you are going to be all right. Mr. Axelrod when you think back on those 37 years, i am sure you were inspired by people who served under you, people who led you. But is there one person who you think back on and say, this person embodied what i think is best about service . Adm. Mcraven i have an awful lot of them, as you said. The one thing that people in leadership positions, at least and i know ryan would say the same thing what inspires you every day are the men and women that work for you. The fact of the matter is, and particularly during, after 9 11, the young men and women i saw who raised their hand after 9 11 and said, im going to volunteer to go to war. They all knew what they were signing up for. Those of us that came in before 9 11, it was just a continuation. But that generation that raised their hand, and the thing i enjoyed the most was spending time with these young men and women. You hear their story. Some of them are married with a couple of kids at home, they are e5s making a small salary, and you see their sacrifice and sense of commitment, and im telling you, that inspires the leaders to do the right thing. Now, i have been fortunate in my career, i have worked for remarkable men and women. We talk about colin powell, i worked with condi rice, i have worked for both president s, george w. Bush, for barack obama. But i think back on the senior enlisted i had a chance to spend time with. My command sergeant major, a great Army Green Beret and special operations noncommissioned officer, one of the smartest guys i ever spent time with. He was my righthand man. I did not make any difficult decisions without conferring with my sergeant major. When i was in the navy, i had a great master chief named Steve Chamberlain along the same mold, incredibly disciplined, remarkable enlisted men. There is inspiration everywhere and you dont have to look very hard to find it. Mr. Axelrod what was the hardest day you ever had in your 37 years . Adm. Mcraven i dont know if i could single out a day because you have a lot of tough days. Particularly in combat. Unfortunately, after 9 11, in the course of my six years in and out of iraq and afghanistan, i lost a lot of great men and women. That is always hard. It is hard because you know they were very young, they were very committed to what they were doing. You grieve for their families, and frankly, it is a burden that i am not sure you ever completely get over, nor should you get over it. There were a lot of hard days. And i dont know that they ever get easier. As i said, they probably shouldnt. Mr. Axelrod what about the proudest day . What is the day that you look back at and say, wow, that was it . That was really extraordinary to be part of . Adm. Mcraven a lot of people would probably say i would jump to the bin laden raid, but that would not be my first thought. I was incredibly proud of the men that went on that mission to get bin laden. They were risking their lives. It was a remarkable mission and it certainly brought justice to bin laden. But when i think back on the number of missions, and we did thousands of missions from the time i was the Deputy Commander of jsoc and the commander of jsoc, thousands of them. The ones i was most proud of was when we could rescue an american, we did a lot of hostage rescues. The thing about it was, we were not rescuing prominent people, we were rescuing contractors, we were rescuing journalists, we were rescuing, you know, people that we knew we had an obligation as american soldiers to rescue americans. And when you save someones life and you realize that you have impacted them, their children, their childrens children, because they are alive today because of what you and your men did, that is pretty damn rewarding. Mr. Axelrod you have also been called upon and you have called on others to take life. And there has to be some psychic cost of that. There has to be some impact of that. And you have been close in on a lot of action in the course of those 37 years. How do you process that . Adm. Mcraven yeah, first, you have to recognize your obligation as a commander. So, your obligation as a commander, first and foremost, is the protection of the men and women under your command. So we understand that from a rules of engagement standpoint, from the law of armed conflict, you have the authority to protect yourself and you have the obligation to protect others. So, whenever we were doing a mission that required striking a target, killing the enemy, you really do have to go through your mind and you have to say because youve got to live with it, and if you make the mistake, you will live with the civilians you inadvertently killed you say, am i doing this to protect american soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, civilians . And if you can in your own mind make that argument and you know that your decision is moral, legal, and ethical, you can do that. Now, i was not always right. And we made mistakes. And innocent men and women died. It is the horror of war. And once again, you have to live with that burden. And let me tell you, there are times at night when those dark memories come up and you say, what could i have done better . What mistakes did i make and how could i have corrected them . And then you have to press on. The one thing i used to tell young officers is, you are going to make bad decisions periodically, but you cant be afraid to make the next tough decision. Because if you are afraid to make the next tough decision, then you are not the leader the men and women need you to be. Because every leader is going to make mistakes. You know, learn from your mistakes, be prepared to make the next tough decision, because that could save more men and women. Mr. Axelrod you were in the nsa during that critical period in washington, during that critical period at the beginning of the war in iraq and after 9 11. A lot has been written and a lot has been discussed about the impact of that decision, to go to iraq. We still have troops there, we have troops in afghanistan. What has the impact been on the country of this prolonged struggle, for which there really isnt a parallel . Vietnam went on for quite a while, but we are almost two decades in now. Adm. Mcraven yeah, great question. I think it was in 2010, maybe september of 2010, i was in baghdad and the decision had been made to pull u. S. Forces out of iraq at the beginning i think of 2011. I was down talking to a squadron of seals, and it was a seal chief petty officer who was a little upset. At one point he said, hey admiral, wtf, we are going out on missions every night, risking our lives, and we are pulling out of here in four months. Why are we continuing to go on these missions . And the missions at the time were to try to stop this network of suicide bombers that was coming into baghdad, hit the markets and those sort of things. And it was a great question. And the only answer i could give the senior chief was, we came here, we have a responsibility. And let me tell you something, you have no idea about how your missions can change the outcome of the war history. If you stop a suicide bomber from blowing up a market in baghdad today, will there have been a young man or woman in the market who was going to find a cure for cancer, who was going to be the Prime Minister of iraq in 20 years, who was going to do something great . You just dont know, so you have to do your job. From the military standpoint, we have to do our job. Now, that is not to say you dont sit around say, what if, why are we doing this . Thats not to say you cant in your own mind question the policy. You should. And the Senior Officers have an obligation to raise issues with the secretary of defense. But more often than not, you have to be satisfied with doing your job. Now, let me take it a little broader. I was with president bush last year or so, year and a half ago, and somebody asked him the question about his legacy and in particular, iraq. He said something i thought was very thoughtful. He said, they are still writing books about george washington, not making the implication he was george washington, but he said, people will assess my legacy for millennia to come. He said, it is a little hard at this point in time, not very far removed from iraq, to say it was the right decision or the wrong decision. And i had to think about that. I always, in my mind, questioned whether it was the right decision, but i realized as a leader, i had to get out and lead my troops to do americas business. But having said that, i realized that history will tell whether or not taking down saddam hussein, trying to institute some form of democracy in iraq, was worth the blood and treasure that we and the iraqis gave. And i think the jury may still be out on that. Mr. Axelrod you mentioned him and the other president s you worked for. Talk to me about the leadership lessons you learned from each of them. Adm. Mcraven it is interesting, and you well know, having been in there many times, but when you sit in the situation room and you have an opportunity to really observe up close how the president of the United States deals with his senior staff, what i guess i was surprised by were the similarities between george w. Bush and barack obama in terms of how they dealt with their staff. And what i found with both bush and obama was they listened. They would listen to their staff, they were happy to have members of their staff disagree. And then they would take that input, go off, and make a decision. I think that was important. Even though their personalities are much different. President obama much more subdued, although, as you know better than most, he has a great sense of humor and a great personality. Sometimes it did not come forward publicly. And of course, president bush, much more outgoing from a public standpoint. But i would offer also, very thoughtful behind the scenes. What both of these leaders understood was listen. Listen to the subject matter experts, take in the information, and then make the best decision, the best judgment you can. That is the fundamentals of leadership, i think, in any role that any leader would have. Mr. Axelrod i was going to ask you about some of the current events. When i first approached you about coming and speaking, you were reluctant, because you did not want to get drawn you had criticized President Trump and you didnt want to get drawn into that. It is unusual for military and retired military to be as outspoken as you have been. Was that a hard decision for you and what kind of feedback did you get from your peers . Adm. Mcraven [laughs] well, it was actually not a hard decision. I thought about it, but it was not a hard decision and i will walk you through the timeline. One of the things ive told folks is when i am criticized, as a Senior Leader having spoken out against the president , i always tell people, that is fair criticism. We have this unwritten rule that as a retired senior officer, you are not supposed to speak badly about the president , and in general, i think that is a good rule. But i also realized that for myself, i needed to look myself in the mirror and say, am i doing what i think is right . All of this started when i was the chancellor at the university of texas and the president came out and said the press was the enemy of the American People. I said, i have fought the enemy of the American People and it is not the press. I have been raked over the coals by the press and i understand how challenging it can be, but at the end of the day, to me, the press, the first amendment, is maybe the single most important thing we have as part of our constitution. And for the president of the United States to attack the american press, as i said, was the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime, and i stand by those words. That, of course, began a number of times when i felt it was appropriate to speak out. I tried not to do it, you know, just every time i was offended by something the president said. I wanted to make sure if i was going to use my voice, and if i was going to have to suffer the slings and arrows, i wanted to make sure that i was at least in my own mind on solid ground. But ive also told folks, if you are in the military, if you are a uniformed military person, you cannot speak out against the commanderinchief. Not your place. For those of us that are retired and speak out, the criticism is fair. Weve just got to be able to deal with criticism. Mr. Axelrod what do you make of first of all, what has the impact of this president been on the military and on the morale of the military . He has involved the military in ways that are unusual, unique really. We have an apolitical military, and now we are in this period where he has lost this race. He fired the leadership of the pentagon, he has put some strong ideologues into those positions, including a former general who is islamophobic and called president obama a terrorist leader and so on. How does this filter down to people in uniform . Adm. Mcraven i certainly wouldnt want to speak for the men and women in uniform and terms of the broad swath, because i think there is this mix of support for President Trump. There are some folks out there who absolutely believe he is doing the right thing, investing more in military hardware. And theres a lot of truth to that. He has obviously continued the pursuit of isis in syria. He has done some things i know some of the rankandfile believe to be good and appropriate things. Conversely, i know a lot on the other side that, to your point, they think he has dramatically affected morale by intervening on particularly some highprofile cases where the military was not actually able to adjudicate the case. The issue going on right now about firing mark esper and joe kiernan and the Senior Leadership in the department of defense, the issue there as you know, is about the transition. I was talking to somebody the other day, when i was commander of the joint special Operations Force in iraq, and i dont know the exact days, but i would have to brief president bush on the missions we were getting ready to do outside of iraq and afghanistan, and there were a lot of those. I remember one day, i am briefing from iraq to the situation room in the white house and it is president bush and his team, and several days later, i turn on the video teleconference and up pops a new president and a new team, with the exception of bob gates. Thats the way a transition is supposed to work. Again, the days that separated my brief to bush and obama, i dont know the exact timeframe, but it was not far apart. The reason the Obama Administration was able to get up to speed quickly is because president bush had given president obama and his team a great transition, a great turnover. You really have to have that if you are going to be focused on National Security. I think the concern i am seeing from some of my colleagues now is by kind of beheading the Senior Leadership of the military and putting in folks that are, in my opinion, not qualified to do the job at this point, not necessarily all of them bad guys, but certainly i would say not fully qualified to do the job, that is going to make it tough. If we are not allowing the president elect and his team to do the transition, it puts us at greater risk. Mr. Axelrod i agree. Lets go to some questions from students and start with seth, a veteran scholar sergeant in the marine corps, class of 2024. Seth, are you here . Seth i am here, thank you. Good afternoon, sir. I am a student veteran on campus and i am currently in hyde park. When i was a marine, i had the commandants reading list to guide me to find the right books to be reading. I am curious what books you would suggest for Young Leaders like me to broaden our horizons on American History and leadership in general. Adm. Mcraven great question. The books i will put them into a couple of categories. There is a fiction book called once an eagle, by anton myer, kind of a classic book for most of the west pointers. It is a great novel about a leader who starts with an enlisted troop in world war i, goes to world war ii, and then something similar to vietnam. But it is also this remarkable novel about leadership and the contrast between his style of leadership, which is exemplary, and then a careerist, who is a good combat leader, but not good at taking care of the men and women under his command. That from a novel standpoint is good. One of my favorite books is all quiet on the western front. The reason i like it is it is about a german soldier on the western front during world war i. Why is that important . If you read that book and put your name in for his name, you would have the exact same experiences. You would recognize everything this german soldier is going through. Why is that important . Sometimes you have to recognize that the enemy you cannot always dehumanize the enemy. They are people too and you have to recognize they are motivated in ways that might be similar to how you are motivated. I have to think those two books. Of course, you can see the library behind me, i would say 800 of the 1000 books behind me are on everything from military strategy to special operations. You cannot go wrong with on war and understanding the great strategists as well. Mr. Axelrod seth, thank you for your service and your question. Let me say, dont forget make your bed and sea stories, two great books. We did a wonderful podcast together, so i had to bone up for those and i so enjoyed both of them. I highly recommend it. A lot of leadership lessons in both of those books. Lets see, we have robert, class of 2023. Robert, where are you . Robert good afternoon. I am currently spending my quarter in hyde park. I am in air force rotc. Is there any advice you would give for people in rotc or people considering joining the military after college that want to make a career out of it . Adm. Mcraven i also went through the rotc program, the naval rotc at the university of texas, and my son went through the air force rotc at clemson. The rotc program is phenomenal. You get the opportunity to get a good military education as well as a more liberal education at the school you are going to. The one thing i would offer you, when you get into rotc, it is important in any organization to learn the basics. That is what rotc does for you. Little things like learn how to salute, learn how to wear your uniform, learn the ranks. You cant be a good leader unless you understand the basics of whatever organization you are going into first. Your rotc time will give you that opportunity, and probably also give you the opportunity to travel a little bit. Take the time to talk to the enlisted men and women in the rotc unit, and talk to the officers, learn about their careers, and take those four years as you would at any college to absorb as much about the organization as you can. That way when you become a second lieutenant, you will be prepared to do your job. Mr. Axelrod thank you, robert. Best of luck to you. Kevin, a graduate student at the Graham School biomedical informatics and an army veteran who served in iraq. Kevin, where are you . There you are. You are muted, kevin. Kevin thank you for taking the time, admiral. Really appreciate it. My question is, how can we all help repair americas reputation post 45, also how do we communicate with people who refuse to believe or understand the truth . Adm. Mcraven great question. I think internationally, on january 20 at 12 01, we will find a lot of the problems we have had internationally will quickly become resolved. People from nato to africa they want american leadership, they are begging for american leadership. So as soon as President Biden comes in, he is not an isolationist. He is going to value the relationships we have with nato, he is going to value our relationships with our allies and partners, and they will recognize that on day one. That is not to say we dont have bridges we need to rebuild a little bit, but i think instead of having to rebuild a bridge in one direction, we will find people coming to the middle because they want us to be part of their interNational Security. In terms of how do you deal with friends and family, which i have a lot of, who are not necessarily supportive of my political position, you have to listen. And you have to not be too righteous. It is easy sometimes to think, my goodness, why dont they understand . Why cant they see what i see . I would say you might want to check your pride at the door a little bit. Check your sense of righteousness just a little bit and listen. That may not sway them and it probably will not sway you, but i think they will be a lot more receptive if they think you are prepared to listen to them and be thoughtful about their positions. Then maybe you can begin to build bridges a little bit easier. But if you come in and youve already got your armor on and you are ready for a fight, that will not help anybody and i dont think you will get much traction with that. Mr. Axelrod thank you, kevin. Let me follow up on these questions. You speak about what will happen the day that President Biden takes the oath of office in terms of how the world views us and how we view the world. What about yourself . Would you consider playing a role in some form or fashion in the next administration . Adm. Mcraven david, ive always said i am not into politics, but like you, i like policy. If the opportunity to work in a policy environment and provide policy guidance were available, absolutely. That is in my wheelhouse, its something i enjoy doing. If offered, i would absolutely consider it. Mr. Axelrod what would be the most important advice you would give the president as he takes office . Adm. Mcraven well, i dont know that the president needs my advice. The one thing i think is back to the previous question, almost 73 Million People voted for donald trump. So the president , if hes going to pull the country together, i think hes going to have to take a hard look at what were some of their concerns and is there a way to bridge that gap . Recognizing that he is going to be a president for all americans. If youre going to be a president for all americans, you have to do what i think joe biden has done exceedingly well over the years, which is extend his hand across the aisle, see where we can get compromise, and move forward together. Youre not always going to be able to compromise, there are going to be some folks who are entrenched, but that is something he does very well. We are going to need that. When you have almost 73 Million People, there is probably something in there of value he must consider if hes going to be the president. Mr. Axelrod in terms of National Security, what do you see as the greatest threats we face . Weve seen the power for very little investment of cyber tactics and cyber attacks. And democracies are particularly vulnerable to that, but so is the infrastructure of countries. Where do you see the greatest threats in this era . Adm. Mcraven i think the greatest threat to National Security is k12 education. The reason i say that is because if we are not growing the next generation of National Security leaders, if we are not teaching kids, starting in Elementary School and junior high and high school, if we are not teaching them, giving them a classic liberal education where they have to think critically, where they are exposed to different ideas and different cultures, they also need to learn stem. But education to me is where we need to focus our attention if we are going to grow the next generation of National Security leaders. When it comes to immediate threats outside our boundaries, my focus would be on russia. China is going to be a competitor, we recognize that. I dont really see us coming to blows with china, i think they are too smart for that and hopefully we are too smart for that. Russia, to me, and putin, he plays the great game better than anyone out there. You look at what he did to crimea and his push in ukraine and syria. Of course, he has been very aggressive, he threatened us on the high seas and in the air. A miscalculation with russia could lead to a shooting conflict. I dont know if it would be a big war, but i am more concerned about russia than i am china or even north korea. While kim jongun is only concerned about the survival of his regime, i think you can understand that that is a given, and that makes him a player you can work with because you understand what he is trying to achieve. He is a rational actor in a very irrational way. Mr. Axelrod andrew has a question for you. Andrew, step on up here. Andrew good afternoon, admiral. Thank you so much for your time, great to have you here. Great to hear your insight. I have a question regarding history and historical studies. I am part of the class of 2022. To you, what is the most impactful or beneficial period of history to study as a professional leader . Adm. Mcraven wow, ive had thousands of questions over the years, i dont know anyone has ever tossed that my way. If i had to think about history a lot of the books back here are ancient history. My sense of history is it really hasnt changed much when you think about the nature of warfare and you think about the nature of diplomacy. I will tell you, i think it is important to read, how did we deal with the cuban missile crisis and how did the allies come together in world war ii and what were the bad things we did in south america in the 1960s . Those are all important things to understand. But if you go back and read about ancient rome, ancient greece, if you read machiavelli the fact of the matter is, the dynamics between human beings have not changed much in thousands and thousands of years. You have to understand that i think going into it, and once you have the foundation and this recognition that battle does not really change the weapons might change, we might go from calvary to motorized but the nature of warfare doesnt change and the nature of diplomacy does not change. What changes are the circumstances. Read a little bit of ancient history and then find those kind of modern, you know, big ticket items like the cuban missile crisis, how did kennedy deal with that, the vietnam war, and those sorts of things, and then pull the two together. The history in between is all more of the same. Mr. Axelrod thanks, andrew. Jay, step on up here. Jay thank you for speaking with us. I am a former submariner currently in washington, d. C. With the class of 2022. My question is, what advice can you give to veterans transitioning to civilian life after a career of service . Adm. Mcraven thanks, jay. What you will find is you have to learn the business first. When i transitioned from running socom to being chancellor of the university of texas system, i knew nothing about Higher Education and nothing about health care. The system was not just austin. It is 230,000 kids, 100,000 employees, eight academic institutions, and six Large Health Care institutions, and i knew nothing about that. I had a fivemonth sabbatical between when i retired and when i took a job and im telling you, i spent that five months talking to people, learning everything i could about the business. Back to the question that was posed early on about what is good in rotc, youve got to learn the basics. I needed to understand, what does a chair do, what does a dean do, what does a provost do . Whats the difference between a researcher, an oncological surgeon . I wanted to understand the basics. Once you understand the basics or least as much as you can about the organization, then the leadership skills you had as a submariner are fungible. You will immediately find that once you understand how things work and you build a matrix, you build your own ok, i see how this works, you will maneuver nicely. If you dont take the time up front to work hard to learn the business, everything you learn in the military will go for naught because you will struggle to understand the basics. And then finally, its just a matter of working hard and earning the respect of your colleagues, and you know how to do that. Jay thank you, sir. Mr. Axelrod thank you for your service and your question. Finally, jack, is jack lined up . If not, i have his question. We dont see him. Jack, who is a west point graduate, a former army ranger, asks, what are the security risks and potential benefits you see in the trend of commercialization of the space industry . Adm. Mcraven yeah, you know, i think the commercialization of the space industry is actually a good thing. I have a brotherinlaw who works at nasa, i have watched the space industry over the years there he is. Are you up there . So, you know, i think what nasa has been surprised by, and ive heard a number of nasa directors talk about this fact, they really didnt think the commercialization was going to work. Of course, now it has worked, weve seen spacex rendezvous with the International Space station. I do think this marriage of public and private, if you will, is going to serve the space industry well. There will always be those folks who want to work on the federal government side with nasa, but there are always those who want to work on the commercial side and have a little more latitude and freedom to be inventive and those sorts of things. I think the partnership will serve america well. Mr. Axelrod jack, you also sent in a question that i felt was great and i want to quickly ask this one as well. You asked, what do you believe about leadership that everybody else thinks is crazy . Adm. Mcraven yeah, i am not sure i have learned anything new in leadership in terms of everything that you are going to read. We know as leaders, youve got to lead from the front, you have to take care of your troops, you want to share the hardships. Those sort of things are the most commonly known things about leadership. But the one thing i think really has stuck with me is i get back to hard work. Whenever i went into an organization, i found that in order to earn the respect of the men and women that i worked with, i had to work hard. I had to show up early, i had to bust my hump all day and go home late. I will give you one more story. When i was a navy captain, i was in a very serious parachute accident, and 9 11 happens, and i was asked to come to the white house. I went to the white house and i did not have time to rehab. About 18 months after my time in the white house, the seals in Virginia Beach were having a conference and they invited me down. The seals knew, we all got in a circle and did our pt, and we were going to go for a 10mile run. I was still kind of broken, so i go to do the pt and i got through the pushups, but it was hard to do a lot of other things. Then we do the run. As typical seals, it starts off as a race, and i am hanging tough for about 100 yards. Then, the guys take off. I am struggling because my injury was to my pelvis and it was hard to run. As i am running, it was a twomile loop around a course we were doing, and as i am running, this kid after a while laps me. He is a young officer, and as he is lapping me and i am struggling to run, he stops and says, sir, what are you doing . I said, what do you mean . He said, sir, you dont have anything else to prove. You dont need to be doing this, you have nothing else to prove. I did not say anything and the kid ran on and he was absolutely wrong. You have to prove something every single day. If you wake up and think you dont have anything to prove, if you wake up and think you dont have to work harder than everybody else, you dont have to lead better than everybody else, that you dont have to earn the seal pride, you are mistaken. If you are a leader, you wake up every single morning and realize you still have something to prove. When the day comes that you think you have nothing left to prove, it is time for you to do something else. Mr. Axelrod i bet that young man who lapped you probably did think you were crazy. So, thats probably a great answer to the question. Let me say, having gotten to know you a little and knowing what the people i worked with thought about you, there is no race you would not win at the end because your character and commitment is really unparalleled and your insights, not just into military issues, but into people, which is such an important part of leadership. So we are so grateful for your being here. I am grateful for all of your years of service and to know you and appreciate what youve done in the past and what you will do in the future for our country. So thank you very much. Adm. Mcraven my pleasure. Great to join you all today. Thanks. Both chambers of congress are in session next week. The house starts at 2 00 eastern on monday to consider a number of veterans related bills. Later in the week, a measure to strengthen faa oversight in the wake of crashes involving the boeing 737 max airplanes. And a resolution condemning china for violating human rights in hong kong. Off the floor, both parties select their leadership with all top positions running unopposed. The senate is back at 3 00 p. M. Eastern on monday to consider a judicial nomination for the Southern District of mississippi. A vote to advance the nomination scheduled for 5 30 p. M. Eastern. Also on their agenda, the nomination of judy shelton to serve on the Federal Reserve board of governors. Watch the house live on cspan and the senate live on you are watching cspan, your unfiltered view of government, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Look atht on cspan, a the president s motorcade departing from the white house this morning, passing his supporters in nearby freedom plaza. Then, the march for trump rally in washington, d. C. After that, a review of the president ial election and what to expect from a biden administration