Brookings institution. Good morning. Director im the for the center of United States europe. At the bookings institution. Today to be d chairing this important discussion on election 2020 and implications for u. S. Foreign policy. Obviously over the weekend there as been some rapid developments. There is now a president elect joe biden, after a pretty few days, i think, for everyone, an election that close for many days but now we have a clear winner. So we have a terrific panel this morning to discuss not so much election but looking forward to next year to see what the are for u. S. Oreign policy, for international order, and to talk about some of the nuances from they may and what mean, particularly that trumpism is alive and well even though did not receive a second term and that the senate hands of l be in the republicans. Edelman. Ve eric osnos, tamara wit teo s, at the brookings institution, and victoria all of them have served in either served in senior positions in government which i wont go into t the moment, but you can rest assure that they come equipped with decades of experience at highest levels, and evan has biden, a book on joe which is titled sorry, the escapes at the moment. But joe biden, life and times it means for the 2020 election. If , lets start with you, we can. Joe biden has been around for a long time as we heard repeatedly from donald trump. Hes been in office or out of office for about 47 years. A long track record on u. S. Foreign policy, in some ways hes a very known quantity hes a bit of ys an enigma. Evolved a bit over time. Hes had debates about foreign which have been somewhat obscured by the trump show and any people in biden world were expecting a repudiation of donald trump, an overwhelming a tory that would send message to the world. He has won a clear victory but more close and more marginal than many people anticipated. He may well have a republican and he, of course, has said that working with rs, republicans, working with people on the other side of the aisle, contemplates of the first few days of his transition and the beginning of term, how do you think he sort of interprets the results week, particularly with the view to what it means as far Foreign Policy and further future of americas global role . Tom. Anks, yeah, its great to be with my colleagues up here and with all tuning in. Are look, i think there are, as mentioned, there are in some ways elements of joe bidens to his s approach diplomacy and domestic policy that we sometimes overlook or studied in detail until just now. Somecan help us anticipate of the things that i think were likely to see. Heretalk just for a minute about what i think we can broadly describe as an error of abroad. At home and important ts an defining piece of this, to understand the period of tructural and sustained hostility in the u. S. And in many of its relationships, which ill have implications but before we do that i want to talk about president elect bidens diplomacy because, when you talk to him about how whichnks about diplomacy, is something he cares a great deal about, hell tell you, that of a ws somewhat distinction between the way its conventionally practiced. He said to me at one point, look, sometimes diplomats get tired because ill say to them m not going to go into a room and say what you want me to say, the way you wrote it here ecause his basic view, and he would apply this in wilmington or in baghdad or in beijing, tell another person what their interests are. Thats his fundamental idea. Notion of their interests, and as he puts it, you know, in my experience generally not open to being persuaded that their own calculation is wrong. Show themave to do is the basic element of recognition, the facts that hearing. Youre listening with them. You dont have to pretend you if you can get them into a position that they can trust their own ability to alculate their interest youre starting over at an advantage over if you come in and tell them why they are wrong. Of this, other piece thats meaningful is, Joe Biden Barack Obama actually had a very important thing that bound them together when they were the ticket. Her on oftentimes president s and Vice President tickets are chalked on marriages. In this case they had this thing, that tied them. In the his basic belief possibility of unification. That you could actually unify people but they used very to do it. Tools in president obamas case, as we he had a transcendent story. Literally his own personal story the power of his eloquence, of his political rhetoric, was he began this process f trying to restore an element of the american image, of american credibility, and that was his approach. You saw that in the significance of his speeches and so on. President elect biden has a different view. He does not pretend frankly that american t kind of story that can communicate what the future of the United States is likely to be. Is, in fact, i have the relationships. I have these kind of fundamental persontoperson contacts, and most of all, i believe that if first back to that principle, that you acknowledge that somebody elses interest thats egitimate, that the basis for a meaningful discussion. Briefly just very mention one other thing, which is, it is significant that he a lot of these people. George said at one point we used to have foreign leaders who went with joe biden for a long time, we would have foreign leaders come all the time to the senate and my job go around and introduce the foreign leaders. Over is senator here is senator so and so, then leaders would say hi, joe. They just knew him. Now, when oment like the United States frankly looks nfamiliar in so many ways now, in the nature of politics, the nature of our divisions, to our opponents abroad, an lement of recognizable ability is a political asset that i think we sometimes discount. Comments about all the various specific domains, china, europe, and elsewhere because my us going on ll get that and well come back to them q a. Re specifics during tom, back to you, i think. Evan. Nk you, amara, you served as Deputy Assistant secretary of state in the middle east in the first term of the Obama Administration. You had an opportunity to work with Vice President biden. Ell get into the middle east part of it later on, i think, in to the ussion but just question on his sort of how it might have changed following election of last week, what hes sort of thinking, you know thinking u think hes about the challenges hes facing in the world, in still a very country at home and if his Foreign Policy is like to be little different this week than maybe it would have ppeared like just before the election . I think that last one is a difficult question, but let me with the broader outlook question. That one thing weve seen from joe biden throughout his career, whether its in policy, Foreign Policy, an n politics itself, is ability to learn and grow and change. This is his not his first run you he presidency, and, know, across his career, i think, hes just gotten better better at what he does. Out about n pointed his determination to empathize out Common Ground, i elements of re practical diplomacy that will serve him very well. Hit got the background to the ground running, but the in, innge he faces coming january, is how much the ground as shifted since he was in the vice presidency. Thats very true in the middle historic e weve seen developments over the last decade. Some of which he was in office some of which he was not. Drew across the board. Politics has changed. Transatlantic partners are in a now than they were four years ago. Degree of s a uncertainty in Global Politics that i think has led a number of traditional partners to engage in over the course of administration and that. Not simple to unwind so i think his capacity to learn to grow is going to be put quickly. , very but i think hell probably move himself into some of the common hes found with partners in the past. Hether that is, you know, the iranian challenge on counterterrorism, on our sort of coalition of democracies across which is something he spoke about lot during the hard to see its put meat on the bones without those good conversations. Hear from them and to find that Common Ground. So no doubt there is a lot of thats been going on, but he will be reaching out and a lot of conversations. Hell want to hear it for himself. To, you know, hes not going be able to put these things on while he figures it out. Thank you. Tamara. Ou, thats fascinating. Eric, if we could turn to you next. Served in very senior positions in the pentagon and republican the administrations. What do you think mitch guess, the d, i Foreign Policy oriented senators thinking at the moment . 5050 y better than chance that they retain control of the Senate Following the january 5,georgia on we need to wait to see, of course, results but if youre looking at it now there is a pretty decent chance they emain in control, so will have control basically of the nomination process, oversight. Le obviously, legislation to pass, nd its been a pretty divided election. Weve already seen some senators come out and basically back trumps theory of the case. What do you think mcconnell and are of the other senators thinking and this is sort of a prospect for cooperation between administration and a Republicancontrolled Senate . Thanks, tom. Its great to be here with you, and with all my with whom i re, of unusual ties. Weve succeeded each other in a variety of positions in government. Tammys parents were exceedingly kind to me when i was an in turkey, and evans grandparents lived in the same grandparents did in manhattan. Its a great panel and im it. Lled to be part of look, the Republican PartyRepublican Party of ronald reagan, has been hattered, and its beyond recognition, in terms of its approach to National Security policy. I think for those of us who were i was rump republicans, part of two different groups of that ilk, that endorsed vice biden, we had hoped or, as you indicated, a bigger repudiation of trump and trumpism and we didnt get it. I think Vice President biden is win a pretty solid victory when all the votes are counted. A slightly to have higher margin than barack obama romney. Nst mitt but its still not the epudiation of trumpism that ight have served as a healthy cleanser of the republican tendency, particularly in the to enable president trumps worst instincts. Already in see that whats happened in the postelection period, when a of republicans in the senate have jumped like trained respond to tweets from donald jr. , et cetera, about his fathers totally cast cratic efforts to doubt on the results of the election, which i think is dangerous for our democracy. Person, its only one putin. S it might also benefit xi ping, so it might be more than one. What will happen in the senate . I think senator mcconnell, eader mcconnells instincts remain sort of traditional. International conservative internationalist republican. A longstanding relationship with Vice President biden. Instinct is going to want to try and be pragmatic, to get some things done. And i think, in fact, probably are already vicening to happen between president bidens folks and congressional staffers on the side. Ican so i think thats, you know, all to the good but leader mcconnell a very large challenge nd thats going to be that the Election Results are likely to be ratified in the minds of a umber of people that the problem was not the message, it was the messenger. A repudiation of trump, but not necessarily of trumpism. Hostility herefore, to trade agreements, hostility our alliances, are going to ticket to success in 2024. And that trump lane will be very rowded with a number of candidates and many of them are going to try and trump the soak win it over to and jr. And president trumps for their own andidacies by being obstructionists, by leading the resistance to a bind mcconnell will himself. Ugh road hell need some cooperation from he biden team helping him to manage it. I dont think it will be as big an issue on the confirmation for the et positions, but subcabinet positions, i think, that are open for confirmation, be a bigger battleground and that will cooperation on both sides, which would be good for country. Eric. Ank you, youve served in several administrations, in both parties Foreign Service officer, very senior levels, picking up left off, if were likely to see sort of a of trumpism in the Republican Party and in the senate, would you still have international elements, internationalist elements there and a vice who is sort of naturally kind to bipartisanship, what do you think the best prospects are to ort of recreate, if not the consensus, at least, by each party, americas leadership role internationally. Thanks, tom, first, its great to be with everybody on and fresh monday morning ith so many patriots who have served their country so well. Listen, biden came up along with most of the senior members of period where a the fundamental underpinning was that political fights ended at the waters edge. And when you went out into the world, you went out as a unified ideally a bipartisan front, and lk to allies adversaries alike about the hallenges and to represent the United States. I think that will be bidens reach out astry to mcconnells andhe traditional republicans, of his i think eric is that on the Foreign Policy and security side, we yet, what hell posture, what the younger folks will take from the foreign agenda of trump. I thought it was pretty throughout the even as some of in more trumpian republicans congress, supported punishing allies object trade side. Nobody joined this caravan of trump hostility e. U. As an o and the institution or towards allies in general, and over the period of the Trump Administration, this merica go it alone, america nilateralism did not have popular support. Public opinion polling for institutions like the u. N. Went this period and i think that reflects the fact that the people never really did buy that its better for us, take on issuesto like china, issues like the new security challenges artificial ch like intelligence by itself. If we could do it with allies cheaper d be better, persuasive for us, but secondarily doing it all alone on the American Farmer rather than on a broader coalition and it stands less of a chance for success. I think bidens instinct obviously will be to try to ebuild a traditionalist coalition for American Leadership there will be a demand on the republican ide for a more rigorous approach to some things. Particular. Than they may have seen from the bama administration, but as tammy said i think thats where president elect biden and his have evolved anyway. Hat its time to be far more organized, structured and rigorous, and strong as a community in the way e approach russia, china, and some of these other challenges authoritarians, who want to change the rulesbased system in favor. So i think hell make a strong effort. I just wanted to underscore a that evan said, as somebody, you know, who had traveling with biden and watching him work as a in the last in Obama Administration, not only does he start from the premise that you cant tell else what their interests are, he starts by what the understand other person on the other side of the table thinks their are. Rests and then what their political environment is. Maneuver e is room to is. Call the o try to a bettertor, to create outcome for both countries, and extremely entally in his approach. So just as the nation needs ealing i think he thinks the planet needs healing and democraticy that the community has got to come together in a strong way to challenges that we have. So i think hell start from that optimistic place. Do a lot of listening. I think hell be quite demanding, he wont want to these big challenges alone and hell want to help our allies in partners in asia, and in other parts of the world. Be a much it will more multilateral approach, but dont think hell be a pushover with allies either. Pick up on t something that both tammy and tory just talked about, which i important, but i want to put a slightly different it, which is, you know, tory was just talking about, you sort of uilding multilateral approaches, and tammy was talking about the our partnersome of and allies to engage in selfhelp. I agree with both of those but observations, but to remember its bigger than trump and biden. Or a lot of allies, they look back at the last 12 years including the obama years, and of retrenchment in leadership. Created at the vacuum by obamas arguably underreaction to what happened wonder if thisey is not just a transient phenomenon that trump something rather longer lasting. And so the challenge, i think, will face, as he attempts to address these issues that talking tory were about, is how credibly can he barack obama. Not im not just the second barack obama. Im just biden and im bringing a different approach and its which america will be more active than youve seen it be, not just in the last four but in the last 12 years. Nd i think thats going to be really his challenge. A great point. Ive long fought key political uestions about a Biden Administration, how is he to erent from trump but obama, getting a leverage on what it might be like, tomorrow, come in next on that. Before, of this course, but the way i try to think about it is, are there Key Assumptions or orthodoxies from the Obama Administration that you ifferent this time, know, and i guess, you know, you could address that in the or ext of the middle east more broadly, on other issues, but, you know what do you i guess maybe not shifts but debates what are the broader sort the of Foreign PolicyCommunity Around biden, about whether or be a ere should significant departure. Lines of what e eric was suggesting or Something Else . Tom. Hanks, and this is already such a rich onversation, im really enjoying it. Think, yes, i think what youve already heard from this about the president elect, would suggest that he sees possible, that he doesnt go in with these lofty visions the way did. A it feels like obamas speech was ike a century ago on eliminating nuclear weapons, for example. Ofhink obama, partly because his own personal story but artly because of the way he approached the world, he thought hat he could stretch out these ambitious visions and inspire others. I think president elect biden is to take a much more down approach. These are problems were facing together. Ow do we Work Together to make this better than it is. Question i think the that eric posed of taking that earth approach while simultaneously sending the essage that were back, were engaged, were driving, at a look, the United States, like every other country facing a ld, is tremendous domestic crisis covid. Of and thats layered on top of all of the drivers of this desire to from the world that exists in our domestic politics affected by both obama and trump. If he wants to be engaged abroad hes pushing into a domestic political headwind, and i think, know, i think the challenge egins at home with persuading americans that it is necessary o remain engaged, and that actually, as tory said, we can more expectedly at lower costs and perhaps lower risks working with partners. You know, where do we see bipartisan agreement . On which International Issues a biden could administration start out with Common Ground with republicans senate, for example . China, clearly, you know, you the clear ck at unified message from ongressional democrats and Congressional Republicans and the Trump Administration, at last years munich security on china, for example. Just across the board. You can see it on russia. Desire to impose stronger consequences on the russians, and try to constrain their and ior in europe it where, and you can see also on saudi arabia. You know, obama his legislation from Bipartisan Legislation overridden by congress at the administration, allowing 9 11 families to pursue remedies in american courts saudi arabia. And we saw those in congress to to saudi ms sales arabia because of the yemen war that trump vetoed. If you look at those three areas i think all of those are areas here, if thats where you start, it pushes the united confrontational direction toward these three actors, and, you know, doing effectively is going to international coalition. But there is also the question f, is that where a biden start . Tration wants to rather than strengthening on climate working change, addressing the challenges of nuclear you know, on, addressing the Global Health challenge. That ow, these are things are going to require cooperation, including for russia and china. Do think there is an inherent tension between the domestic will, and the Ou International equation thats solve. O be difficult to i actually see it the tom. Ite way, if i might. I think if you look at the Affairs Article that biden penned a year ago, and, during , the few times the campaign that there have een conversations about National Security and foreign olicy because it really didnt figure too much, there is a thought, that f strong at home also requires abroad, and that the two challenges, rebuilding United States, and Building Back better, have to ork in tandem with restoring u. S. Leadership abroad, and the egree to which we can make an infrastructure leap. N innovation leap, and use stimulus money to make ourselves tronger, will make us both better leaders globally, in terms of how we deal with economic recovery, how we deal pandemic, but will also put us in a stronger position to countries in aed unified approach to russia, to hina, will ensure that neither of those countries gets ahead of us in terms of next generation, economy, et cetera. The question becomes, and you see this in the writings of some key advisers, how do you convince american kitchen are s that the two issues linked . That so many of the jobs that they depend on in the heartland linked to open trade and open borders, not necessarily agreements, but maintaining the freedom of navigation and freedom of tariffing your friends and all of those kinds of things . But also how do you ensure that the stimulus money thats going into the united tates and that europe is applying, is also bringing us world. Standing in the better outcomes. Of green innovative ways running our countries such that visavis ger adversaries and not feeding the next to them for the oh generations economy can, security and infrastructure. See it as linked. Its a tall order to implement that way because youre going to have to get some this is where Congress Comes in. Is a Republican Congress going support the kind of investment that bind has talked they, 80 billion, and are going to see it as a gift to him or are they going to see it adds of strengthening the country for everybody . And strengthening our leadership role . I think. E challenge, tory. Anks, on that point, im starting to read in some questions from as well, because they are streaming in. Reporter from the Philadelphia Inquirer has a question, i could also add another topic question as well it, which is, the point tory you know, here, getting the domestic agenda through and even getting some of he nominations through will be difficult with a Republicancontrolled Senate. Ne way to do it is to make competition with china more central to the overall foreign right . Narrative, that you need to have these to astructure investments compete with china, and the necessary changes on the maybe some of , the nominees will sail through ore if they are seen as having a liberal sort of version of power and competition. There seems to be an active debate both in bidens world and democratic circles object wisdom of that. Embrace it, whats our sense, i guess, of, a, the substance of it, having such china. Nce on but also, on the internal policy bidens world on the china issue . In some ways this is the together so many of the themes weve been talking about. All of us today, because, you just as an example, china is one of the areas in a departure soot much from the obama approach but an evolution. Some cases by some of the same practitioners and this is partly because of a on the ion of the facts ground. That things have changed both in the relationship, both in leadership, and also in americas view at the elite and at the popular level. And, look, i think if you you look back at what biden wrote, and also if you at what some of his key advisers have been writing in Foreign Affairs and elsewhere, begin to get a feel for the ways in which there is a fundamentalthat the organizing principle of the u. S. China relationship under administration, is no longer operative in the same way. Willnot simply cooperation lead to a more cooperative china. Hat it is now leak anything that were into a phase of some a much more usly, contested arrangement. Say specifically, on the u. S. Political side, take, for point, you hadata a Senate Resolution to censor eijing over its involvement in hong kong that passed 1000. United else in the states these days could pass 1000. Hat creates from the incoming administrations side a tremendous reservoir of options. Able to point they can say, beijing, look, this is contending with here. It is in our hand, on our schedule, on our terms, to going to do ere because we have this mandate to do what we want to do, and to say that they are either chuck out entirely the Trump Administration approach or simply apply it and extend it. Youre likely to see, and these are very xperienced practitioners who will be involved in this relationship, they will use the elements of the existing setting ways that are helpful. They dont need to roll back tear rivers until something is provided in return. They dont need to simply change existing m the approach on technology until progress. Vidence of and so, even though there may be, and there are, very deep disagreements about the approach that the and administration took, how the incoming Biden Administration will take it, they are also in the unfortunate of being able to inherit the elements that they and use them as leverage as necessary. Ill sort of leave it there because, this is, bit way, a hrilling chat with colleagues here and i feel like we could do this every week for the next all ofd not even fulfill our mandate here. I feel exactly the same way. Other area for this leverage comes up around i think youre ketching out potential differences between a Democratic Administration of whatever the republican enate, the jcpoa is probably pretty high up there on the list, could you speak a little think a biden ou dministration should deal with this issue, particularly in regard to all the leverage that his Trump Administration has bequeathed to them and is there a way to do this that sort of, bridge to theds a senate and a way to do it maybe that burns that bridge . Its a great question, tom. First, i just want to say i word with every single hat evan just said including and and the. E sketched out brilliantly how the biden folks will be looking at the china question, and this intomore broadly, i think, efense policy because of the National Security strategy that he trump people adopted, which prioritizes competition with russia and china, and, you know, the election, the House ServicesCommittee Chairman adam smith said, you know, there was going to be a about ht among democrats the Defense Budget, and biden needed to do a new national all of strategy, and that. I think they will, of course, do a new National Defense strategy ut i dont think its going to end up quite where adam smith thought because of the election all the reasons that evan just deduced, which, broad bipartisan consensus that were in a long term competition strategically china. And with russia. And that probably china is the bigger challenge. There is broad acceptance of that and the biden dministration can make its own adjustments and build on that. Nd biden, i think, signaled that in his stars and stripes interview where he said he big t think there would be cuts in the Defense Budget notwithstanding the sanders amendment that calls for a 10 across the board defense cut. I think he was signaling all of this. Particular, you know, the Vice President said that he wanted to go right back into the deal and i hope he doesnt because i think that ould be a huge mistake strategically, and it really speaks to the point that tammy i wentrlier about and through five different president ial transitions during career, and one thing that occurs all the time is the alwaysge, because people come back from having been in or eight viously four years ago and what people iscover is that the world has changed and sometimes it takes them shorter and sometimes and i to figure that out hope that the biden team will discover that on iran its it doesnt take them longer but shorter. Ecause they have been bequeathed again, as evan was suggesting with china, enormous because of the impact that almost nobody predicted, including the critics of the administration, that the maximum Pressure Campaign would build as much economic pressure as it has. And the iranian economy is in terrible shape. Oreover, the iranians now are very much out of compliance with the standards set in the jcpoa. And so, to go back in and pressure e sanctions without getting some pretty considerable in return, would think, to squander the leverage leverage. Its er it would punish agreement, its jcpoa, the ord, the senate when it was debating it ever voted on it because the Obama Administration refused to have a vote because they knew they would lose. Leader who inority hopes to be the Senate Majority leader, chuck schumer, came out agreement. E the ranking democrat on the relations ign came out bob menendez agreement. The next on the committee cardin out against the agreement. So there will be bipartisan folks looking at this to see how the biden folks are both using the leverage they have got, but also addressing what even the democratic platform admits were omissions in the begin with, which is the Ballistic Missile program maligned behavior. So i think the way forward for is Biden Administration first to consult with allies, nd try and develop a common approach to getting iran to the able, to get a better agreement, that doesnt allow republicans to pick out the of the early agreement including things like the conventional arms embargo on that expired on october 18. While all the rest of this stuff was oing on and nobody noticing. And that, i think, will be the best way forward, if they just goingack in and say were back into the agreement, we dont really care about all the rest of this, i think it would a diplomatic mistake but will also damage relations in congress. Would love to get your thoughts on erics comments, but you know, its hard to think of another region in the bidens ere maybe joe election will be greeted so in the middleaybe east. These guys generally were totally in bed with trump and of him for a ive wide variety of reasons. You know, on the iran peace but on the brady middle east hallenge that a Biden Administration will face, this isnt necessarily an area where reassure, o reassure, reassure, you know, there are substantive differences and beefs with these leaders including, of course, saudi arabia, so you do you think that a biden ces administration will face in the on t six months, including the jcpoa . Yeah. Doubtful, eric, that a Biden Administration is going to rush a jcpoa that iran is out of compliance with. Think thats ly realistic. Is the more likely question whether you can do a freeze, where the iranians stop their, especially the enrichment activity that has brought them out of compliance, material,ng of nuclear is, you know, Elliott Abrams in the region consulting with allies about scaling up the iran putsions, which, in a way, the Biden Administration in a think sition, although i abrams intent is to tie a bind hands, but it s does give them more leverage, at east in the short term, with the iranians, to demand a sort of freeze for freeze. That gives you time to sketch with allies, to out the parameters of what a bigger, longer, stronger, jcpoa2. 0 might look like. Thats the , direction i expect that they will take. As far as the t, region is concerned, israel the primary concern win nhas not been the nuclear proliferation. It has been the other activities. The hat weve seen over course of this maximum pressure with no offramp is that iran escalated those activities, administrations incoherence in responding to that it is leaving allies with a lot of questions about the direction of american policies. It is both a challenge and an opportunity for the United States, but its going to come up very quickly in a lot of places. This is the issue that is going to bring riyadh and abu dhabi and everybody else knocking on the door, just as it was when the Trump Administration came in, by the way. One of the reasons that they went all in for trump is it because they felt fairly or unfairly betrayed and abandoned by an Obama Administration that conducted secret diplomacy without telling them with the iranians and made noises about leaving the saudis and iranians to work out their own. How does biden put those pieces together . Pursue some kind of diplomatic engagement with iran without creating the perception that, i think, would be incorrect that but is quite likely among these hypersensitive regional partners , that biden is just being the antitrump and switching sides. Iranians. E and of course, there are quite a bit of republican critics in the United States who will jump on that as well. I think it would be to his advantage to find a way to kick the nuclear can down the road a little bit, and address allies media concerns, and our immediate concerns, about Nuclear Activity in iraq, about the ability to defend against missile attacks and rocket attacks from the iranians and from their allies and hezbollah. And you know, to have some really tough and honest conversations with regional partners about the ways in which their behavior in the last four years has gone, not just beyond the bounds of partnership, but beyond the bounds of basic international norms. The violations of sovereignty of other countries, including the United States by the saudis, for example. Not only the murder of jamal khashoggi, but the twitter, planting of spies inside twitter, the abuse of diplomatic facilities using saudi , diplomatic facilities in the u. S. With common crimes to escape justice, this is not how friends behave. There needs to be some very honest conversations about the things we need to do together and the things that they need to pull back on in order to demonstrate that theyre committed to this partnership. Thank you. Victoria, theres a question here from jennifer rubin, which is how can president elect biden institutional in departments like the state department . Id like to ask you that and a link to tamara and eric were just saying about leverage because we often hear that the Biden Administration ought to use this leverage and that has been bequeathed to it. I wonder if you might talk about how it might generate leverage and if theres anything that we have all learned from the Trump Administration in terms there occasions where they did generate leverage even though people did not necessarily think it would work, and they didnt have a strategy to negotiate on it, but were there things that the Obama Administration could have done more of to generate leverage . What is sort of your thinking on how a Biden Administration might be able to create leverage of its own that it can use, you know, over the subsequent four years . And i just mean that in terms of we often hear reinvigorating diplomacy, diplomacy is personnel, resources, buildings. And a lot ofrategy experience negotiating and with some pretty tough characters. How do you think about sort of revitalizing diplomacy and across the spectrum of all of those areas . Well, first of all, you know, i and i think a lot of people subscribe to the addage that diplomacy doesnt work unless its backed by strength. Being strong at home, recovering fast, and rebuilding this Alliance Structure so that regardless of the adversary, whether its china or russia or iran or any force around the world that wants to undercut the liberal world order run by the democratic world, we have to rally together, and thats the greatest leverage when were working in tandem with others. You know, i was fascinated listening to eric and tammy. I think the middle east is going to be the most complicated for the Biden Administration because i dont think we have an articulation yet of the middle east end state that wed like to see, right . How much does it matter to the United States that syria is still bleeding, that libya is bleeding, that yemen is a mess, that the gulf cant Work Together . That israel is aligning with some, but were not solving as tammy made clear the threats to israel from hezbollah, et cetera. So, i think the question becomes, can you articulate a vision of investment in the middle east, whether its with regard to syria, iraq, libya, yemen, you know, that is perhaps not the lofty 2011, you know, freedom spring vision, but is nonetheless a consistent investment on the side of stability, on the side of rolling back maligned behavior, whether its iran, whether its russia, whether its saudis, whether its our ally turkey and bringing major allies to the table around that vision and as eric and tammy have said. Jcpoa unlike the climate accord is not turnkey. You cant just flip it back on because the conditions are no longer being met. So how do you define this bigger, i would say, at the same time you dont want to see iran going back to Building Nuclear weapons, th . The maligned behavior with the support of other malign actors around the world is more dangerous right now. How do you build on that . The other thing is with the jcpoa remember that russia and china were partners, hard to imagine that we are going to be able to do that with them. I think it takes you back to the question of leverage, tom, which is that, you know, with europe, with our asian allies, starting with a core of g7 nations, who are the biggest democracies around the world. How do you Work Together both to rebuild ourselves, because you have to start from that place, remember the long telegram speaks about you cant speak about the soviet union if you are not strong at home and i think this would be persuasive to Congressional Republicans if articulated right but how do you convince everybody to make a contribution in common . Frankly, i dont see another country that could have a joint liberal approach to china, to russia, to technology to iran, to climate, other than us. So we have to first articulate a clear vision. We need to have a team that can employment it. So were going to have to first have to articulate a clear vision, were going to have to have a team, the problem with the state they werent with diplomacy and pompeo did go out and do a little bit. But at eric taught me, 10 major policy leaders from the secretary, deputy secretary, Undersecretary Political Affairs and even some ambassadors enfaging in negotiations and who are supported by young diplomatic teams who are learning how its done, to are working with the evans of this world to explain policy to the Fourth Estate and who are in dialogue with the congress, and who will bring in resources to the table, whether there are security resources, whether they are development resources, whether they are, you know, the punitive resources of a shared sanctions approach, et cetera. So we have not been out there in the world. The table has been empty. And the malign actors, whoever they are, have rushed in to fill the gap and theyve had it easy. But also, our allies have had it easy because we havent been asking them to join with us in some of these things. Some of them may be very difficult, including things like if we decide that we need to have an export control regime together against chinese high technology, which i think is a bipartisan move that people will support. Will the european support that . Will asian allies support that . Theres a lot of work to do but i think it will be exciting for the state department to get back into the business of trying to talk to allies and friends, and adversaries, about all the work that needs to be done. Cannot just pick up can i just pick up on some of what victoria said . I dont disagree, but i think it is very hard to underestimate how much damage has been done to the diplomatic platform of the United States by the Trump Administration. Its not just the Trump Administration. There were a number of trends that go back way before that, that have contributed to this, but the hemorrhage of senior officers, we aged out and so thats not important that people my age group flat. Of my age group left. But the american taxpayer has invested enormous amounts of