Say again welcome and thank you to our panel and amanda barrett, fda managing editor of theassociated press. Sanchez, editor and Senior Vice President at the Minneapolis Church news and dorothy packer, Investigative Reporter for wbbm. In my hometown of chicago and president of the National Association of black journalists. Thank you allfor being here. And over to you. For having me and thank youagain to our panelists, thank you to everybody whos joinedus today. I hope you get a lot out of this conversation. This is important and we have a great group of panelists that will dig right in. So i want to take with kind of an overarchingquestion. Newsrooms have been announcing a lot of great changes over the last few months. New diversity leadership positions, taskforces, theyre creating new projects after years of inequities in our american newsrooms, some of have even characterize it as systemicracism in american newsrooms, has anything really changed . Amanda, id like to startwith you. Thank you to everyone for having us here today for this very important conversation area i would say that things are starting to change. Because there is so much conversation and so much inside our newsrooms, particularly as we were all covering the summer of protests and it started us off on the path of soulsearching. But were nowhere near done. I think we have started and were thinking and were starting to make change, but my concern is how do we make the change permanent. How do we really try to not only reach different communities also give more people power in newsrooms to hear their voices andbring them into decisionmaking about what we do. So thats where my mind is. Okay. Renc. Do you have any problem with that . I agree with amanda and the only thing i would add is that were taking a first set of steps that we think can be meaningful but theres a huge, enormous, that a real burden of proof to the point of how do we sustain it well and how a year from now can we credibly say there has beenchange . I guess i would say michael, the only really evident change so far is i think in our newsroom given the magnitude of what happened here in minneapolis is that we are darren to listen much harder and even though we think were listening, to listen harder, to some of the nuances of the issues the on kind of the obvious shortcomings. So that has been i think an important part of the process so far and i hope it may push us into a significant change. Dorothy, do you have thoughts on this one . I think the protests fueled a racial reckoning in newsrooms across the country, just like we saw in other industries. I think that we definitelysee it in the newsroom. What i see is black journalists who are coming together, joining together in demanding change with the new newsrooms. Their demanding equality. Their demanding that managers listen to them and because of that, i see that there are more hires so we were talking about this the other day. We put out a lot of congratulations to this person and this person. We are seeing some movement. I think managers, to this point they are hearing the voices of black journalists and other people of color in particular in responding and if they arehearing it , they are seeing things around the country and they are being proactive. I think there is some movement. The question to us like amanda said is how do you sustain it . One of the ways we sustain it is to say to our black journalists in particular and others as well dont stop. Just keep pushing. Dont sit back and say okay, we have one new manager in, were good. Number we haveto keep up the fight. We have to keep the heat up. There are other things i think we should address systemic racism but ill stop there now. I appreciate that. Whenyou talk about sustainability and keeping it going , why should journalists of color in the industry now believe that anything will change going forward, especially if you you give our history and go back to Historical Data and ill just use all of our organizations have challenges here but ill just use the nas and e as an exampleright now. Back in 1978 , they vowed to achieve parity in newsrooms with demographics of the United States by the year 2000. It is 2020. And in 2020, were saying, the organization is saying they will reach parity by 2025. We seem to be kicking the can down the road. What will make this stick . What will make this sustainable . What will make the change be permanent. Ill start with you again, dorothy. One of the things that will make the change and i dont know that i can say permanent i think one of the things that will make this fight more constant is that were frustrated now. I think because of the protests, because of what is happening , because of the unrest in this country, because of the racism, we are frustrated and we are perhaps more determined in that there are more of us who are in the newsroom and who are more aware. If you look at in 1978 and that was just about thetime that i came in , i was the only woman in the newsroom. There were no others. Fast forward to today and were definitely not the only one in the newsroom but there are more of us and what im seeing is that literally, i have chapters reaching out to me every day saying that we are getting together and we are going and demanding to see more people of color in management positions. Were demanding to see more people of color in decisionmaking positions and i think thats why youre going to see a change and its because of thenumbers, its because of the time and its because of the frustration. And young people in particular , they are not as educated as we were. Theyre not willing to sit back and say if i do the right things long enough, my time willcome. Theyre speaking up and i like that. I like that theyre saying wait a minute, ive done all these things. I want my turn now. Iwant my opportunity now. So its a different time and i am prayerful that it will make a difference, that it will sustain. Renc, whats it look like for you . Lets be honest, i think there should be skepticism. If you look over recent years or even the decades, gains are very incomplete, its gradual. I dont think theres a magic bullet and were not approaching it that way as we renew this work with i would say greater urgency than ever. The way where thinking about it is that you know, they have to rethink and have a lot more intention around everything from the pipeline of young journalists to developing midcareer journalistic positions of leadership. And it just the full spectrum list you might say in the hope that in all those ways, there will be gains. You know, the one other thing i would say that is different compared to any point that ive seen so far is that here in our newsroom, we are working directly in and constantly with several leaders of journalists of color in our newsroom and whats been great about it is that it started very much as a shared partnership. For example after two months of listening and really trying to get more deeply at the issues before we put out an action plan, i let the leaders of that group line by line and call out what was maybe tone deaf to put forth emphasis on other things we really trying to do this together, not just as a Leadership Group responding to particular new questions ordemands. Theres a couple of things at play here. First i think for a key, this went from being a newsroom conversation to a company conversation. A lot more people started talking about their experiences and feeling like a half a lot of opportunities for they werent heard and so i think there was a groundswell of sharing that really helped us when we started thinking about how can we change the way we operate and how can we think about the audience that we want to reach, bringing different perspectives and voices to the and actually telling some unusual stories. And we heard back from customers thatthats what they want. Theres a business imperative here we should not ignore. For us, our customers tell us that we need to be given a total picture of the communities that we can. Give a diversity of voices and opinions and different people are coverage. So having that kind of response helped us think about holistically how we can change our operation to do better. But there is still skepticism. Theres definitely skepticism and i thinktheres going to be. We have to show our work and we have to be really serious about making change and show commitment as leaders of our news organizations in order for people to see that change is happening. I think if we dont dothat , youre not going to see the support of the community and edelman did a survey and found that people want to know that the brand they support is conscious, is socially conscious. They want to know that the manufacturers who makethem have a diverse company. So the Community Looks at the news industry the same way. And its important. So to amanda it is about the body and mind and i know that we may not be able to see these changes happen today or tomorrow, but i think its different this time. You have Companies Like the star tribune and the ap putting together an action plan. Where 50 years ago individual companies are not putting together an action plan area there was a mandate from the Turner Commission and a mandate from the asa need to do the right thing and make some changes but now individually these companies are putting together a plan to make a difference what we have to do is make sure that they carry out those. Dorothy, i want to stick with this topic for a few more minutes because you mention something that ive heard numerous times. You said when you first came in you were the one. I believe that there are still numerous newsrooms out there where there are still a one and ifyou are the one , you dont have a collective to go to management and say i want this change or we need this change. We have journalists of color leavingthe business. How do we model newsrooms of all sizes to keep journalists of color in the business, to train them to provide them mentorship and to help promote them or give them career plans that will help them achievetheir goals. And i dont mean just from, reporter to seasoned reporter, but to editor, to executive editor, to general manager and dare i say into the boardroom . What do we need to do toget to that . Two things. First i think its kind of different questions here. There are many newsrooms that there is still only one. You remember the case in kenosha wisconsin where the editor quit because of an inflammatoryheadline he did not want. He was the only black editor, the only black person in the newsroom and now equipped over that. And there are many cases where there are one but the difference today is when i started there is one in the newsroom but we are much more connected because of a ja and all the other organizations. There is an opportunity for even if you are the only one to network with others and others will support you. My job as president is to be the backdrop, is to be the support, is to be the voice when you need it. To your other question about what do we do , i can tell you that there are a number of programs that Companies Already run and im sure that our mentorship programs, that our fellowship programs. Help people get in business. They give them an opportunity to get an internship and an apprenticeship and to get that first job and then to move up. The problem is that theres a gap. They get in and then there is , many times there is nothing to do can to continue that mentorship. To continue that relationship, to continue to give them opportunity so after four or five years, six years, they leave. Because they dont have a role model because nobodys given them the opportunity. There is more hiring at the top because the road up is too long that is going to be 10, 12,15 years before you get there. [inaudible] bring them in. You know, dare say they get to theboardroom , higher than right at theboardroom. People of color have thatkind of experience. Theyve been in the industry long enough. They can come in and as an executive editor, they can come in as general editor so just start there. We shouldnt always have to start up, we should be able tostart at the top as well. Renc, looks like you had something to say. I think thats a great point of emphasis. What were thinking about, what were striving to do with more intensity, to do it better is frankly to increase the accountability and to increase accountability on this issue in every Single Department of the newsroom. Not to simply say this is a newsroom thing, its a features thing. Its a photo thing area its a metro news thing. A copy desk thing so what were trying to do is get a plan going and it is in motion now in which the new leadership position we have on these issues is to kind of lockin a quarterly meeting with the leaders of each department and be able to ask questions like where are you now as compared to where you werelast quarter with the Development Plan of journalist x. Where are you now with recruiting on the job you know that is coming up this summer. Things like that and what were hoping is that if we can increase accountability in each department, in a structural way that over the next year a lot more will bloom and then that Critical Mass will i think my hope anyway when presented journalists of color coming in at all different stages of their career. They see the commitments, they see themselves, they see peers like them and thats the challenge before us and its pretty stark. Amanda, did you have any thoughts on this particular question . It evidence we all struggle with is lets face it, journalism was not always great athelping people create career paths from the getgo. Thats just a basic issue that we have. But we really have to focus in and think about how we can create assignments for people. Give them opportunities, create new leadership opportunities. Ross, i know we can be very hierarchical and we have committees, but theres always peopleon the committees. Can we pull some other people in . Can we give them a chance to leave, give them a chance to try something new because we know that we need them to build those skills, we need them to be leaders in the newsroom and the not so distant future. So i think all of us, its incumbent upon us as news organizations to really help someone, help our black staffers, all of our staffers but particularly our minority staffers find a way forward, develop the skills they need and dorothy is so key about recruiting at all levels. Ims with the idea that the only way we can bring in minority journalists is to bring them in on entrylevel reedit there are plenty of people like me who been in business 30 years. In doing work for a longtime. Why are they not getting the cost . Why are not they not being considered . Thats something we have to focus in on because typically, what happens is no higher there friend. We have to break through that and as renc said, you have to hold them accountable. We have to say no, youre not going to gohigher your friend. We need to look at the panel of people that are being interviewed for jobs and be more demanding that people are out there recruiting all different kinds of people so that we can bring those voices into our company. Recruiting efforts and i just want to say this amanda, its exactly what i wanted to say. Recruiting efforts is key. Or one of the keys for sure. We have to make sure that you are searching beyond your small circle and that means you out to organizations like the aw j. We have 1400 members, we have databases of producers, databases that were developed now as freelancers. We have to tell their butt we are beginning to get calls. Now more than ever because i have pretty much been jumping on, take me, take me. Ive been saying come to us, come to us, we have the talent but i want the industry to know that we are a resource and its the same thing for any agency, so i think these companies have to be very mindful and very, when they go to say were going to fill this position, dont just make a phone call. Go to the universities as well. Dont just call your friends because sometimes its a question and the Companies Say why is it that we keep hiring people who look like the managers wealready have . Why do we keep hiring white people who look like white people . Thats the question i didnt mean to interrupt you there but thats the question i was about to ask. I have been asked in other newsrooms how do we trust the process if the same leadership is in place that peter got us to this position or has maintained this position and amanda, to your point there hiring their friend. I also want to make sure there are systems in place and i want to know what you all have in place your shots, i like to know the systems in place so its more than a really room, anyone whos not familiar with the rooney rule , it requires you bring in a candidate of color, a minority person to interview for any headcoaching job but as ive seen it and ive seen this happen innewsrooms , the candidates are brought in to check off a box and the conversation is had, they walk in the front door, the conversation is had had their walking and the next thing you knowtheres the back door and there out and we did our job. What are your shots doing to ensure that the managers have the right training. They have the right understanding. They have the right decision to understand the needs to diversify newsrooms and it look like you are ready to speak. I think thats a great reference. I have literally invoked the rooney rule here to our leaders because on the one hand it sounds great but where are we ask years later when you look at the landscape of professional football and headcoaching and it could easily be argued that hasnt been that effective because to your point, its kind of a box checking exercise so we have invoked that directly as a clear sign of how this can go way off track or start as strong rhetoric and have no consequence sowhat were trying to do , to be honest obviously where just kind of renewing our intensity around getting much better but were already discovering challenges within challenges and some of them have the sort of relate to that as we talk to broad effective leaders we realize wait a second, if required, the same people are asking questions so we subsequently tried to break that down in small meetings of four, three or four people with leaders in the room of color so that there can be a direct reckoning about what is not right. And secondly, we appointed a new Senior Leader to help lead the way on these issues but weve already had to cant kind of ring a bell and say wait, the person in this job cannot suddenly have 510 tasks that everyone else gives them and they say weve got this person, theyre going to help me so were trying to create a culture of ownership, not box checking because i think that is the key rift and we will lock up in a year and have these feelgood box checks but change. I would agree with that area i think weve been doing training but ill be honest with you, there have been times when someone is a candidate and theyll say we cant hirethe person. And thats been a bit of a reckoning. That makes things tense, but we have to be firm if we want to bring in more diverse city into the company. And i think theres definitely power in that. Theres also power in just talking to people about what are you looking for . What are the exact qualifications because one of the things we found was that you know, there would be a list of qualifications and then someone would come along was a friend of someone who got something totally different. Thats what we say is what were basing a higher on. Well, that wasnt in the qualifications for the job. I think its about talking to folks honestly, Holding People accountable and really reviewing what theyre doing. Its not enough to just go out and hire them but we need to be stopping them and affecting what our progress is and what the problems are and seeing what we can six. And its hard. Its not an easy job because of course were all really busy. Theres a lot of news every single day area its very crazy but this is a high priority for us. And its something frankly that we have to do for our own survival. I think a couple of things. I think one of the things that we should consider and i know newsrooms are also doing this but id like to see more people do it is sort of for the middle managers, no matter how great they are to have an unconscious bias Training Area i think some of that is that managers, they dont realize what theyre doing. I think that helps so that there is kind of an education on training. I think something that would help the overall effort is the day job. As journalists we asked for the data all the time and newsrooms, Media Companies dont want to release what their numbersare. So how many people of color do you really have on the Editorial Staff . Why do we want that . So that when you talk about sustainability we want to be able to say we meet with you six months from now, you had to move the needlein order for us to know how far youve come we need to know where you are. So thatjust in case , what we see happening is that companies will put out a press release and say we hire this person, we hire that person but the numbers havent changed because they left three others because those three set up and left. It hasnt changed and where are these people that youre hiring . What positions are they in . That is something that beginning to push for we want the data so that we can see today and we can come back and look tomorrow what have you really done and where have you really made those changes that aregoing to make a difference. I think you hit on a very good point there. The transparency is vital to Holding People accountable and making sure that things do change. Im happy to say the company i work for just recently went through an audit themselves area they publicly vowed to reach parity by 2025 just like the Readers Association did. And i think its important that companies do that. But how do you continue to communicate internally and externally about our efforts while at the same time getting your audience engaged in the process . In order for us to have the inclusion of different communities, we have to get into those communities and i think weve seen times whether it was in st. Louis or whether it happens to be in town, we often are not trusted when something goes down in specific communities and its because we only show up when something goes sideways. Though how are we mitigating internally and externally and with our audience , how were trying to move forward and why its important that we do that. Offer a quick couple of quick examples that are part of forming at the top of our list that are cut coming fresh, one thing were going to do to that when exactly is form a kind of Committee Power in which we would have recurring meetings and be transparent about our weaknesses and blind spot and listen to the perception of those area i have a monthly newsletter that i send out to alsodrivers and that already chronicled some of them. Were going to do that in a regular way and that challenges, amanda said to this is not just internal challenges, its external in terms of coverage and we have a burden of proof to make sure our coverage does a much better job and is not sort of a crisis coverage we are a full spectrum in what we write about about Community Color so what we are shifting resources around and were doubling down on our coverage of race. Right now we have one reporter devoted to fulltime, obviously lots of people in various the but are going to shift things so that we have to in the hope that we can just do a better job of having more complete coverage, not just crisis coverage. So thats all were working on this fall and with the hope that next year we can really start to showsome gains. We have been having a lot of conversations and it naturally flowed out of the coronavirus questions when everyone went home, our Hr Department started gathering people to talk about their feelings because we were stressed trying to be parents andhomeschool and all those things. Then when the protests began we sort of naturally flowed into that. And they actually brought in doctor brown who left sensations for us around unconscious bias and white privilege, things of that nature and we were having those conversations and all of us news went through faultlines training with the main institute. So we can start identifying our biases and start looking at ourcoverage in a different way. Ive been leading an effort to create what we are calling an inclusion champion, whenever we have something that we really need to drive downinto the organization , we create champions represent vertical or format regions or keys and those people are really having conversations on the front end of our stories about making sure that we are challenging our own assumptions about unity, trying to think about how we can bring different voices into our coverage, different perspectives and different sources. We look at some of our coverage, we see a lot of white men are the voices and we really get broader than that. So we got full are kind of dragging themselves into the organization and i feel strongly that lives at the senior manager level, were doing our jobs. It really needs to be driven by our staff and they are enthusiastic because a lot of them have these operations for a very long time. Wherever they come from, they felt that we are notdoing a good job in this area. So i think were off to a good start there. But we know that we are in a different kind of business because of course we are selling content to customers and we can help our customers because we can provide for them some of the different voices and perspectives that they may not be able to have because they may have a soft class. Heres what ill add to that. I think what we need to do is educate, make the reporters more educated about all the community. As in chicago when i was doing general news, i could tell you about the nuances of every community in the city. I had contactsin every community. I was frustrated when in so many black reporters are with the phone call that says hey, im covering this story in a community, what black person should i call, what Community Person should i call, where should i go i want to get this. I never had to ask those questions when i went to the white community. Why because anytime i went i collected that information. I had my, i had a rolodex in every community. And i made sure that i understood the history of every community and i think thats something that my colleagues didnt do because i was a fallback. They could call the black reporter and the black reporter would be able to answer those questions and thats just not fair. So i want to see these managers make everybody educated in every community so that any story that comes up, you are not going to make a mistake. Youre going to have enough knowledge about that community or perhaps understand theres somebody in the community who you can call so that you dont end up using a word or phrase, sending it to somebody. I second that and thats basic need building. If youre working your beat you should have a wide variety of content , of cross communities because otherwise how are we being sure youre telling the full story . Its really frustrating for black journalists when we get called in to be the voice or be the one to find resources, as a black journalist you always had to go out and learn about other communities and everyjournalist should be expected to do that. I will add onto that as well because as a visual journalist at the beginning of my career, we dont have a choice. We go everywhere. We talked everybody area i have covered planrallies because thats just what i had to do. I think that it is imperative. He said the building. Its imperative we encourage people, or other covid right now so this may not apply but i encourage everybody to go visit other communities, go talk to people physically area not just pick up the phone because you dont get the same sense of smell, taste, sound that you do when you hit it in person. And i think its vitally important that you understand some of the nuances of every community and ill throw one more thing in there which goes to your point about, i think theres a fear factor for some reporters either that they are just nervous about being in certain areas but i will remember when i first got to cincinnati and i was asking somebody how to get to the university of cincinnati and they said well, get on this highway, go thisway, get off on this exit, its about three miles this way. What i found later is that the direct route to the university was straight up our street that the newspaper is on and you end up right at the university. The problem was you had to go through a poorblack community to get there. And the reporter i was talking to refused or i dont know if they still do but at the time refused to go that way because it went through a black community so we have to make sure were understanding our staff as well and whats motivating them and how to encourage them to get over those fears because again as visual journalist theydont get a choice, they have to go. I know were getting close on time. I do want to ask a few more questions. How are you currently getting your community to understand the need for Diverse Voices and divers faces and divers people and topics in your particular markets. Again, ill throw out an example. In two places ive been in my time and as editor i would get phone calls and if there were positive stories about minorities on the front page they would call me and say we dont need to seethose people on our front page. This is a print newspaper and id say what do you mean and they say you know, these people and the funny thing to me andits not funny, i just say it that way. If there was ever a person of color that was being arrested, indicted, anything negative i nevergot a phone call. So how do you get our audience to understand these divers amenities have positive images. Theyre not some of the negative stereotypes that have been published over time are not what these communities are entirely made of this bike know community is entirelymade of any one thing. How are you getting not only your staff but your audience who has been forever seeing the same thing. I think amanda you pointed out coverage is primarily x, y, and z. How do you get your communities to understand and embrace the change that needs to happen . Amanda, ill start with you. I think embrace it, im going to tell you in my role as head of news coordination my inbox is ablaze and it is not always pretty. But i think that you just accept internally that you need to tell those stories and then you honestly hear from people if youre telling someunexpected stories they havent seen , if youre getting a new perspective. We have a chance to bean example. And show the role in all its complexity and there are going to be some people who accepted and there are going to be people that dont but i also think the ability to bring in the perspectives of people whove not been represented, whose voices are rarely heard is very powerful. They need to see thoseimages to. And i think theres a lot of positive things that can happen here even if we backlash. I would simply add that its an all be challenged. We would not be gaining ground even as we saw thought hey, thats a good idea. Lets expand our coverage with another reporter. Are not going to gain ground looks like its the work of reporters as compared to the reporter covering Small Business or a reporter covering schools, Public Health so we can all be challenged. Ialso think in this moment in particular , it really requires something obvious and decisive. Community is not going to really notice in his busy life and say theres unconscious bias training in the start the inhis room. Thats vital,were going to do it but i dont think people are going to notice it. One thing we just didnt do was highly notice and way overdue is that we debuted last weekend on metro columnist who is a local black journalist, lived in the community for20 years. And it was really hard because his first column introducing himself, talking about a mission hes going to have literally was the most read story on our website today it appeared. There are hundreds ofcomments on the story , largely positive but he himself will over 100 emails from readers so just one initial sign but i think thats partly where trust building comes from. You have to be obvious and it has to be sustainedand we hope that one of the ways here. We cultivate more trust. Try and add something different. Not just what we do, like all positive stories or experts of color but one of the things i think i see in newsrooms today is that i freeze again. One of the things that i see on some newsrooms is stop using the mug shot area and the media has really been responsible or bear some responsibility for the negative stereotypes and for the perception communities have about black people. So i think were quick to give us, work with quick to put that much on thefront page. Were quick to put that much on television. We never come back and say to you well, one of the people who were upthere , they were charged. Its a cheap way out and its a way especially on television to fill some space and its unnecessary. We can tell that story about putting the mug shot up there and i think too often , these managers really need to focus on area i know in our newsroom we now have a policy that we dont just automatically put that mug shot up there. Ive seen many newsrooms do that and i think that is the way to go. Ill give you one example happened with michigan. There was a newspaper, there were three black men who were running for state representative. Two of those men or all three of those men at one time when they were younger had been for a misdemeanor. What does the newspaper do in tellingthe story . They all put the mug shot up there. This was like 15 years ago so it was that kind of just because they could do it and the paper ultimately apologized because what they didnt do is use the current photo of these candidates. So when you have examples like that i think we need to step back and look. I think the other thing that we sometimes do in media is if there is a black person in particular, that person has been shot. You tend to do that more with black victims and just one other thing, you know if theres a person whos missing, t that black mother is screaming and hollering. Is not a runaway who is missing and that one almost gets lost but we do the pretty blonde in a heartbeat. Youve seen those studies before so its something that again comes to that unconscious bias and their things in the media that we need to change to help the community see a different life and a better life. I to do appreciate you for all those answers and im sure there is content that we have discussed that people can take away and use in their own daily lives or their own shops but i want to ask one more question to each of you. What piece of advice would you give to organizations that need to, want to diversify their leadership ranks. What can they do right now . I will start. I actually think the single most valuable thing we did in this reckoning in the aftermath of George Floyds killing was frankly shocked often the most profound thing we went through as we spent, myself and the managing editor and publisher we have to, to our sessions outside because of covid and i said to a journalist of callers who are leaving their thoughtful reflection on this moment i havent said anything for a long time and so lets be honest. I feel like giving them comfort to take bluntly some things we didnt realize or overlooked or were distracted by a budget challenge here or there was very cathartic for them and by opening for them and really starkly helpful for us. And i cant stress enough that shutting up and i said to someone the other day listening is not leading to speak but its really being quiet and hearing the death of pain and discomfort about some of these issues. That would be my first piece of advice and i think its going to propel us to a more tactful things we have to do. Advocacy newsrooms literally put all the faces on the screen for people who are decisionmaking positions. But their faces out there who decides what story we are covering and who decides, who helps shape the news and look around and make that decision right then and there to hire more people of color at the top. I would say be as honest and open and just stop because we havent done it right and make the people in your newsroom they care so very deeply about all these issues your partner. We dont have all the ideas. They are a lot of good ideas and there has been a lot of good learning across our company and where we have to take off the defensive shield and join efforts with our colleagues to make things better. Excellent. I did want to get to a few of the viewer questions that are out there. One question that was asked by holly is wondering if you could touch on how coverage has changed this summer and as some of you have mentioned you had reporters covering diversity and inclusion to your roster and included focused verticals but is this going to be a passing topic and how can you ensure that it stays . I need to, my apologies guys, i have got to jump off. I want to thank everybody. I need to jump off before i answer that question. Thank you for being with us. Thank you. Thank you. You know michael i would said goes back to the point i was trying to make about accountability that you know what we are going to be attempting to do across the departments is assert that as a priority and accountability so that we can say every six months okay lets look at what we are still missing and where we had gained . One would be a planned to have what you would call a rolling audit of coverage by the department. I would say we have had the team since 2017 and we have really worked hard to lead them into all of our coverage. These kinds of issues are not sign language and its not just about covering a topic or a community. The folks in those communities care about schools and Everything Else. I think for us it is also about accountability looking at our coverage and we have started to really try to evaluating and see what our problems are. We havent started tracking it specifically. We need to figure that out but we have been giving great thought to how we can ensure that we are getting different kinds of voices into the content im also looking at areas where we might be unique in how we cannot improve them. We have a couple more here at inc. We have time for. One reader, viewer asks as part of the committee in the newsroom in july that addressed diversity and inclusion and make the way for more Inclusive Practices in hiring. They want to put out a joint statement with the leadership about the initiatives they were going to undertake but the management apparently is hesitant to publicly release anything other than general ambitions. They want to keep specifics, specific strategies and Everything Else internally. How important is it to share these tactics with the public and is it important to be specific versus saying we want to do better . Before you answer ive will say to be specific. We have been saying we want to do better. Put something down, write it down, have a plan. I hope its not a plan. You must have a plan, sorry. Go ahead. Amanda said it earlier what is the wisdom in that . Its like if we cant be on is now when can we be honest . We have miles to go. It is a bedrock importance. Here we have made gains. We have done some things right. Its fragile but we have overlook some things. Are we have been distracted by some things. So yeah you can be nervous. You can have excuses but what is the point . The point is lets prepare ourselves to get much better and to be authentic and part of being authentic is to be transparent and specific. What do we have to fear . I would rather the majority of her lead readers challenge us. Specifics are way better. Why fear it collects. I would think if you need to get them on your side you are going to have to build some bridges for some folks who might he leading the way and you might use their influence to influence others so it may be just that there is fear and you can help them see their way through it. I would only add that thats what i refer to when we sat outside for couple of hours. I have to concede my own sense of things, i dont think i started in a bad place but sitting there generally trying to listen deeply to what i was hearing is extremely helpful so the person asking that question i cant recommend highly enough consisting on a deep on this conversation in which your data is heard because you know mindset can be changed or mines open a little bit more by that. I dont think we would be where we are without that. A couple more until julie pulls the plug on me but theres a google from a journalist who says what would be your advice for journalists of color purple. And to end in some cases considering whether they should try to enter this challenging and complicated job market right now . Do you want to go first amanda . I can. You know that actually is something that i have applied to my whole career. If there was an opportunity i took it. It didnt always make sense. I didnt always know where we were going so there is that jagged line but i suspect most people czar. So i think to be open to trying something that you didnt expect or didnt plan on and make disconnections. The networking thing is so easy. Its a small group of people and the Small Business and most of those really work for connections because a lot of times how we get our jobs depends on it. I would say if you enjoy this craft journalism needs you. We need you know that kind of perspective from the generation rising up because it wont be long before journalists like you actually are leaving things are presiding over other journalists in some way so its always going to be hard and we dont know where this is going a year from now, how much more credibility would be had but it feels different to me and when i look around the people i know i feel like theres going to be more determination than ever to gain ground. It you can be part of a positive force. I didnt like it simply because first of all you should have your own mentors right now whether professors or students you worked with to try to build their own board of her is for your life, your career and bart getting advice from them and bouncing things off of them. Its ultimately going to be your decision because you have to be happy in your career and happy where you go but but a lot of times people can help you see that sometimes you have to make a left turn in order to make the right. Its important to not turn down an opportunity just because you cant see two moves down the board. You need to understand whats going on right now and how it may benefit you or to help build your skill set as you are getting ready move forward in your career. The left turn may be the best thing that ever happened to you. So i throw that out there as well. I havent had the plug pulled on me yet so i have another question here. So there are two separate questions but i will ask them the same time. You recommend inclusion champions and if so should they be compensated for that extra labor and furthermore how can we explain to journalists that its not a black story and its not a latino story, its an american story. So its twopart. I will start. Our inclusion champions come from a variety of backgrounds. One of the things that we need to be very mindful of his allotted times we tend to frame diversity and inclusion is black and white but there are many types of inclusions. There is gender, there is geography, there is class, there is mobility which is something we have in our Sports Coverage so theres a lot of different ways to be inclusive and there is age. So we have a variety of people and some managers were asking if they wanted to participate. We need to start at the core. And so they arent compensated monetarily but they are getting training and different opportunities and they are getting leadership. I think that is really been great and now i have forgotten the second part of the question. What was the second question michael . So there was the champions and how do you get reporters to rap their minds around and understand maybe journalists that arent journalists of color that there arent enough black stories. They are doing in american story. These are just stories of americans. I think thats where inclusion is viable for us. If i say hey you are not doing this right its so much better to talk to them about their story. I do think that us having the training was very good for us because it was a way of level setting and allowing us to have conversations about who were the audiences and who are the voices that are valuable in our coverage and how we can bring different voices to the floor. I think its going to be a struggle. This is not going to be a shortterm thing. Its going to take a lot of discussion and back and forth and i think everyone has to be honest about that. Think about the challenge and i think its going to take years. I feel like we can get there but its about changing the mindset. I would only add that even as we safer example we need to think expansively about how we cover ratings, theres a point within that point which is it begs the question its not to say okay im going to turn the lens to Racial Community x or y be a latino or be at lack but just within the fabric of general coverage. We we are writing about schools in reading initiatives and suburban schools. Well you know its the student who is far part of that story. We put into the fabric of general coverage and not too isolated off on its own purge because one without the others and complete. If im covering schools or if im covering health how do i have a diversity of voices with respect to the images within that be regardless of what the person covering races doing and thats a subtle challenge but if you read it the full spectrum of your coverage is better. I do appreciate everybody today. We need to wrap up and we have gone over. I apologize. I want to be respectful of everyones time but i want to thank amberg there at and rene sanchez the Vice President the star tribune Dorothy Tucker who had to jump up that is the president of the National Association of black journalists could i would like also to really thank the Journalism Institute and the National Press club for putting this conversation on. I think its been absolutely wonderful and i dont say that as the moderator. I say that as someone who got to drop the question and got some wonderful answers but i do appreciate everybodys time today and i look forward to seeing you all in the future. Thank you