If you support joe biden and Kamala Harris, 202 7488000. If you support a Different Party than in 2016, 202 7488002. Atwelcome your texts as well 202 7488003. Make sure to tell us your name and where you are texting from. On twitter we are at cspan wj and we will look for your posts facebook. Com cspan. Plus bya senior, 65 most polling so we will use that as kind of a cutoff and trust your judgment on that. Results the most recent on who turns out at the polls compiled by u. S. News. In terms of the demographic breakout, 18 to 24 turnout was 30 . 25 to 34, 37 . 35 to 44, 40 4 . 45 to 64 65 and for seniors 65 plus, 64 of those registered to vote turned out to vote in the 2018 election. Way itsenerally the been over many years. Heres an opinion piece by a senior in texas. He is a plaintiff in a lawsuit against the governor in texas. The headline is im 82, texas is hellbent on making it harder for me to vote. Texans know how much how much our votes matter. Especially this year when early voting started tuesday. There were record raking turnout recordbreaking turnout. Up as early as 6 00 a. M. Ringing folding chairs and umbrella. Chairs and folding umbrellas. Old, just getting around is hard. My options are limited. Going to the polls in person is an Unnecessary Health risk during a pandemic. Mailing my ballot felt like taking another kind of risk after everything i read about changes at the u. S. Postal service. Delivery delays and late ballots getting discarded. Harris county set up 12 different dropoff points. The nearest location was 16 miles from my home. Our leaders must not have spoken with elderly people with disability before facing this decision. Im facing a 90 minute drive to submit my ballot in houston. So part of the opinion of ralph edelbrock, part of that lawsuit against the governor seeking to remove barriers to voting in todays Washington Post. The past week was highlighted by the campaigns focusing on seniors. Heres President Trump last week in fort meyer. Im honored to be here to reaffirm my solemn french to americas seniors. So important to me. I happen to be a senior. You, defend you and fight for you with every ounce of energy and conviction that i have. You devoted your life to this country and i am devoting my life to you. My administration is working every day to give our amazing Senior Citizens the care, support and respect that you. Eserve weve worked together for a long time. As president and im deeply aware that americas 54 million seniors have borne the heaviest burden of the china virus. Many Older Americans have endured month of isolation. Host President Trump last week in fort myers. 202 7488000 seniors only. Support88001 if you President Trump and mike pence. Of quick tweets. One of those prominent seniors is actor jon voight. He released another video on friday. It just says people, the theme of his short tweet video. Ed is a trump supporter, good morning. Caller im really afraid we are by mr. Biden because there is a liberal think for mr. Biden to do all the things hes promising everybody that hes short of raising enough taxes for that. Hes going to have to tax the middle class. Because he is such a flipflop goingm afraid that hes to tax us so bad that a lot of people are going to lose their jobs, they are not going to be able to rehire more people and they are going to raise my taxes. Hes got a bad habit of not doing what he says hes going to do. President trump has done everything hes promised to do and i just trust him a lot more. Thank you very much. Host chris in marion, indiana. Good morning. Caller thanks for taking my call. Im in support of the democrats. Weve got to get that man out of there at all costs. I dont know if we can take four more years of this stuff. Host how is support for joe biden in the Hoosier State . Traditionally indiana is a republican state pretty much. I think theres a lot of support for biden. Was bugsi think if it bunny running for Democrat People would still be voting to get rid of trump. From wests hear virginia. Caller im a trump supporter. I must have called in on the wrong line. Host as long as you are a senior. Caller im 82 years old. Host that counts. , iler the thing of it is have never in my life seen a situation like with trump. Pooredia has hammered that man since before he ever took office. Its getting to the point where the media will elect our president. Familying with the biden selling influence, hes not the only one. Hillary did it, too. Bylary made her family rich selling her influence throughout the world. Its amazing to me why the media does not want to cover this situation. If this was a trump family, you folks on this program would have it on for a week. Maybe a month. Just like the russian thing. Anything negative to trump you are going to hear about it. But let the biden family sell their influence and whatever, keep it quiet. Its just crazy. Host you are calling this from West Virginia. Not far from washington, d. C. What is the support like in West Virginia . Are we seeing more support for President Trump . Caller this is trump country. I worked in that city behind you for 27 years. I was an iron worker. Until the immigrants come in and lowered my wages to the point i couldnt afford to work there anymore. And i had to move to West Virginia and get a job driving a school bus because in that place you cant support a family on 10 an hour. Thats it. Host we will go to friendship, wisconsin. This is paul. Abide in supporter. A biden supporter. Caller i am retired. Host you might be getting confused. Just mute your volume. Caller im a retired painter, drywaller and i have money taken out of my pension and i am not yet getting Social Security. But with the health deal coming a before the courts, i have brain aneurysm, i have heart and lung disease and my neck is a wreck. Of the get rid preexisting clause, im kind of screwed. Fairlly dont think its to be ramming somebody through the court system just to do that. Thats my comment. Host appreciate that. Another view from horatio in california. I support President Trump, im 60 years old. Social security isnt going anywhere. People need to learn how to save for retirement. This is about the campaigns themselves and the money spent on tv ads. By state. Ng the expansion of spending. The red is President Trump, the blue is joe biden. The accumulative spending in the biden and trump campaigns. President trump being vastly outspent i Joe Biden Television advertising in battleground states. The former Vice President focusing overwhelmingly on the coronavirus. A. Biden has maintained nearly two to one advantage on the airways for months. Most pronounced in key critical swing states. Adspent money largely on assailing the president s handling of the virus. Another piece on the election and how the campaigns are tuning their message. This is the Washington Post this morning. Trumps team tries to refocus in final drive. They write President Trumps political advisers have sharply debated how to best spend their limited money in the campaigns last weeks as they seek to chart a path toward a repeat of their 2016 come from behind victory. In thesident is down polls and facing rising rates of coronavirus infection, economic distress and an opponent who has proved far more resistant to the president s attacks. Jared kushner is leading the reelection effort. He convened an all hands meeting to bring together top advisers for the Republican National committee and the campaign. At issue was how and where the campaign which had been operating with conflicting sets shouldr targeting data spend its remaining funds. Which candidate is better for Older Americans . For trump8001 supporters. 202 7488000 biden and harris supporters. This is a President Trump supporter. Go ahead. Caller good morning. Cspan is wonderful. One of the best tv shows on the planet earth. Thank you. Donald trump supporter out of the state of ohio. He is wonderful. We are witnessing history. Have you been looking at the democrats . Why would anybody vote for them . We can see that clearly something is wrong with mr. Biden. And ms. Harris . Have you seen she laughs. She gives this corny laugh. One of the tv people interviewed her on channel seven. On a network show. Ask her, how do you square what you said about mr. Biden being a racist and the other things . And that woman looked at him and laughed. It was a debate. Ae man looked at her with raised eyebrow like wait a minute. So she doubled down. It was a debate. Listen, we are witnessing history and donald trump is wonderful. We know exactly what you get. Saidmazing thing is he what he was going to do. And hes actually doing it. Host chris is a President Trump supporter. Go ahead. Caller i was having a conversation with my son. Hes 25. I was just saying we are living through these times like back in the 80s with reagan and so forth. We Start Talking about history. Washington. George i said, what do you mean . He said trump is like george. This guy is a modernday forefather. Hese people out there, going to win. Hes going to win big. Thank you. God bless america. Host ellen is a biden supporter. I am a biden supporter. I dont like President Trump. If nothing else, i knew him to be a liar and i know him to be arrogant. I havent liked him for a very long time. Way back when he took out a fullpage ad against the central park five. Murdered,them to be killed. When they were later exonerated, he never apologized. I cant believe it was like at 30 years ago. I cant believe anybody could take such a position. In and theycalled say they believe what he says. I heard him say things with my own ears such as that there were good people on both sides. I heard him say that. Some people say the media distorts his position. But i heard him say that. I saw the ad he took out against the central park five. I consider him to be a racist. Hes trying to divide the country. And thats not right. Even the way he has no leadership during this pandemic. In the understand beginning days maybe he didnt get it. And hes nott now setting a good example. Terriblel of these super spreader events and i look at them with shock. Why would anybody go to that . Why would anybody risk their lives . Ive given up a lot. I have given up a lot by not seeing my family scattered around this country. For him to say dont let it dominate you, i want to live a little while longer. Im 79. I want to see my grandchildren grow up. Its painful for me to people here how they say they support him because they believe what he says. If you really believe what he says, listen to what he says. Terrible his opinionated feelings and thoughts about black people and brown people and the racist things that he says and the dog tostles that he sends out his followers. Host ellen from miami. Some of the news we are seeing this morning from the miami herald. Florida has more than 4000 new covid19 cases. Sinceghest oneday total august. We are asking seniors only which candidate is better. Here are some of the latest polling numbers. Supportt trump with 47 according to fox. Biden 49 . We mentioned the campaigns earlier in the week certainly have focused on Senior Citizens. Heres joe biden on the campaign trail in order. In florida. The monthssequence of lying and irresponsible action on the part of donald trump, how many empty chairs are around the dining room table tonight because of his negligence . How many peoples hearts are broken . How many people . Have trouble going to sleep at night because they cant just reach over and touch. They cant hear their son or daughters voice on the phone. While he throws super spreader parties at the white house. Republicans hug each other without concern to the consequences. How many of you have been it unable to hug your grandkids in the last seven months. Ive got six of them. Two my deceased sons boys. The only way i can see them, i stand on the back porch and they stand down and i bribe them with bars bars heloise i cant hug them. I cant embrace them. And im luckier than most because they are nearby. My grandkids, your grandkids. Will treatgrow up one another with kindness, respect and empathy. Qualities the president has never shown. Its become painfully clear as his careless arrogant reckless Covid Response has caused one of worst tragedies in recent history. Host joe biden earlier this week. Seniors only, which candidate would be better for Older Americans. Mark on twitter says many retirees rely on Social Security and stocks and bonds. On facebook, trump 2020 patricia on facebook. Joe biden is going to take our Social Security savings in taxes. The one not attacking Social Security, the post office and medicare is joe biden. From this dying virus. Think thisior could guy is good for america is beyond me. This is from politico magazine. Why Senior Citizens are flipping on trump. Firstden will be the democratic nominee in 20 years to win a majority of Senior Citizens. Supporter in cyprus, california. Im a biden supporter because i like the idea that he wants to lower the age of Social Security to 60 years old and hes not going to try to take money from Social Security and hes going to protect preexisting conditions. Supportersrump calling and talking about how trump is treated, look at what they did with obama. The man had to go on tv and show his birth certificate. They are talking about how trump is treated i the press . By the press . Around, onealking lady with a monkey on her shoulder and making it move and saying that was obama. Of stuff theyind did to obama and they are complaining about how the tress is press is treating trump . It needs to stop. Thank you. Host for those of you supporting a Different Party than you did in 2016, frank in nashville. Go ahead. Caller hello. Im right here in nashville. 10 blocks from the next debate. Was hoping to get down there myself, but i couldnt get a ticket. Even though i was briefly a student there. Retired emeritus professor at vanderbilt. Thats the big school in nashville. Much bigger than belmont. A neurologist. I was actually hoping to be able to sit there and look at the two and comment and make sure nervous anddnt get angry and yelling at each other, Something Like that. Do that onyou television anyway . Will you talk to the Television Set and make your diagnosis . Caller i talk to you sometimes. Host it says you are supporting a Different Party than you did in 2016. Who did you support in 2016 and who are you supporting now . Caller kanye west. I voted for him already. But hesgoing to win, the wave of the future. Guys there, they are both young to me. Im 82. But they are both too old. Win, west is not going to but hes on the ballot here in tennessee. Ofs going to have a feeling accomplishment. And later, not next time, but 10 years and 12 years in the future , hes going to be a real candidate. Host you mentioned the debate happening this coming thursday. Is the city pretty excited about hosting the debate . Caller yes. Host thank you. We will go to memphis. Betty is a trump supporter. Go ahead. Ask, isi wanted to biden still a white supremacist . He fought with the segregationists to keep the black children out of the white schools. Been a whiteer supremacist. Host winded joe biden do this dowhen did boat joe biden this . Caller in the 60s and the 70s. Hes been in office forever. Im 75 years old and cant remember when he wasnt in office. I cant stand this media thats going after our man because hes taking care of everybody. Everybody. Host bob in jacksonville, texas. Biden supporter. Go ahead. Caller i cant get over these people. That lady. Thats a typical trump supporter. They moan about all of the things that all these other people have done and they close their eyes and ears to what trump does. All youve got to do is listen to the man. Hes corrupt. Hes evil. I want to address the gentleman from West Virginia or virginia the peoplened about taking his jobs when he was an ironworker. It, ronaldadmit reagan took his jobs. He flooded the country with knowals and then i dont if the man knows his history or reagant 1986, ronald gave amnesty to all illegals. And thats where his jobs went. I know because i was in the union myself. Its just amazing to me. Reasons for not supporting trump, but my biggest in is i served in korea 1952. 52 to 56. E im 85 years old. I think i qualified for your criteria. The main reason i wouldnt support trump ever is because he dodged the draft five times and i just cannot bring myself to support a draft dodger. I served my country and i was proud of it. I still am. Bob in texas. We talked about the polling of seniors and the turnout in 2018. U. S. News with more indepth on why older citizens are more likely to vote. They write elections are decided by the people who show up at the polls. In the United States the oldest citizens are the most likely to show up at the ballot which gives them clout. 60 of ages citizens 65 and older opened voted in the november election, the best of any age group. More than half of those 45 to 64 also cast a ballot. Reason seniorkely citizens have devote, protect Social Security and medicare. Senior citizens have a vested interest in protecting aid from the federal government. If these popular programs were to change, it would dramatically affect the lives of most retirees. ,omments on social media rebecca tweets how can djt be good for Older Americans. All gop wants to limit Social Security. They talk a good line, but watch what they do. Joe, now trump is putting in court to get rid of obamacare with no replacement. I think joe biden will be a great president , he cannot do any worse. Amphen corpus christi, i voting for joe biden to get a trump is reelected and makes payroll tax cuts permanent, there will be no funds for Social Security when im desperately in need of them. I am 66 and voted early for President Trump and republicans. Democrats believe in socialism and poverty. Republicans believe in individual liberty. Both President Trump and republicans. Robert in michigan, joe biden supporter. Caller good morning. I support biden. I am looking forward to a gentler nation. It is kind of crazy the past few years. I would like to point out one thing and maybe you can help me. Im not too good at the proper language. It was not an interview with trump, it was a town hall meeting a couple days ago. Host yes. Caller he was talking about the polls and he was saying about news, it listen to the is all over the news that he is doing better. According to trump, the news is fake. Now although the side and he wants people to the news. He cannot have it both ways. Is the news fake or isnt it . That is what i got out of that message when i was watching, it was a debate with the woman, what was the woman who is asking the questions . Host one of the moderators from nbc, her name escapes me right now. I do not remember. It was on nbc. Moderator that was talking, and when he said all you have to do is listen to the tv news and listen to the paper, trump was bragging when he first came in that everything is fake, it is all fake. Now he wants people to listen to the news. Host thanks for that. My director reminds me it was savannah guthrie. Dylan is next up, sturgis, south dakota. Go ahead. Caller i am 70 and i am a disabled veteran. I served in vietnam for two years. I am in sturgis, south dakota. We are searching in south dakota. I was wondering about these stimulus payments. Our Social Security going to get stimulus payments again or what . I lost my wife in december. She had cancer and the virus go ford she could not chemo or anything. She passed away in december of last year. Ive been isolating a lot. Problemslot of other with agent orange and stuff. Im just thankful for cspan. Host very sorry to hear about your wife. Youre are calling from south dakota. Let me ask you a question about the news we are seeing about the motorcycle rally, the reporting in the Washington Post how the sturgis motorcycle rally may have spread coronavirus across the upper midwest within weeks of the gathering that drew nearly half a million bikers to the dakotas along with wyoming, minnesota, and montana, leading the nation in new Coronavirus Infections per capita. What is the talking town about the decision to hold the rally . It,er to be honest about the people here, we do not want the rally. ,he governor and the president he came over to mount rushmore, there was like 6000 or 7000 people, and hardly anybody was wearing masks. During the rally it was crazy here. I live right on the main drag, and it was crazy. People came here and took off their masks, that was the end of it, and everybody pretended like the virus was not around. Now we are searching, and yesterday i was at the v. A. And we have a lot of cases in fort meade, too. Crazy around like here and ive been trying to stayathome, you know . Rally, the people were against the rally and the governor and the president were for the rally, i guess. It is surging like crazy. Caller you are calling it host you are calling in on our support President Trump line. You support the president . Caller i am starting to think i will not even vote. I am flipping. Host i appreciate that, stay safe, good luck. More on that story in the Washington Post. The headline their lack of tracing blame for the impact of the surging of the sturgis rally. He got sick after attending the motorcycle rally but was not classified as a sturgis case, suggesting even in the best cases cases may go uncounted. Our question for seniors only is which question which candidate is better for Older Americans. If you support President Trump and mike pence, 202 7488001. If you support joe biden and Kamala Harris, 202 7488002. Sleep ei, minnesota. Joann, go ahead. Caller i will stick mainly to your topic. I am voting for trump, and i feel he is better for older Senior Citizens for several reasons. One, a lot of Senior Citizens live off of the savings and the different investments they have. We cannot afford to have our taxes raised, and we cannot to have that wealth taxed. We cannot afford to have higher Capital Gains taxes. It is what we live on. The second thing about trump, i am against universal health care because Senior Citizens, when we get sick and we need to see a doctor, we cannot stand in line, we cannot have the wait times, or it could mean our lives. I would also like to say i hear so many people with different opinions, thank god we have a right to have different opinions , but to the lady from florida racist andrump is a trump lies, well, they need to go back and check joe bidens history. Trump does what he says. Biden flipflops and biden lies. He lies almost more than trump does. If they look at the video back said i have a higher iq than you have, i can prove i have a higher iq. It alln it turned out turned out to be lies. Joe biden lies a lot and joe biden said i do not want my kids to go to school in a jungle atmosphere, he was best friends, he gave a eulogy for senator byrd who was the head of the kkk. I wish people would listen to all of the facts. Joe is saying he will fix everything, it will be less divisive. Trump is not always the divisive one. Hypeat your facts, not the that the media says. Remember, if youre voting for joe biden, you may end up with Kamala Harris, because i do feel joe biden is being controlled and he is not quite with it as he has aged. Host i will let you go and go to stephen noblesville, indiana, who is a joe biden supporter. Anybodyi do not see how can vote for trump. Things, youat listen to what he says, he has already said he is going to do away with the payroll deduction if he gets reelected. He does away with that, our Social Security is gone in 2023. Social Security Disability will be gone in 21. Peoplet understand these who say trump is so great. Is a the biggest liar, he con artist, people. Wake up. Of you who are supporting a Different Party than in 2016, bob, in arlington, texas. Go ahead. Caller i voted for another because i am a vote perrault guy. I want other parties to get ballot access. Joe biden is a medical miracle. The reason he is a medical miracle is because i do not see how he can stand up straight without having a spine. He does not have a backbone. He cannot even stand up to his own son, who made the little he did notansas, even mention her when he played that clip. He has a granddaughter with blood running through her veins. He made the girl get a dna test for his son, hunter. We do not need any proof to know he does not have a backbone. He will not even stand up to his sorry son, hunter. Media, sociall security and medicare, i am voting for joe biden. David and potomac falls, virginia. On twitter. Trump loves seniors, as long as theyre on ventilators and voted before they checked into the icu. Samples from the campaign on advertising aimed at seniors, joe biden and President Trump. Here is a look. [video clip] i work for 47 years. Donald trump is talking about messing with my Social Security. They think it is monopoly money . It is our money. We work for us. You do not get to play with security for my family. Joe biden looks out for the little guy. He understands what seniors are going through and will keep Social Security safe. We need to get joe biden to protect it. Im joe biden and i approve this message. Who is better for seniors . President trump protected Social Security and medicare. Joe biden tried to cut them. President trump lower drug cost, and during his first term Medicare Advantage premiums fell 34 . Under joe biden, drug prices skyrocketed. Joe biden and Kamala Harris limits insurance and limits your choice in doctors. The clear choice is donald trump. I am donald trump and i approve this message. Host looking ahead to possible congressional action in the senate on covid19 relief and an economic package the senate will take up. Nancy pelosi says the deadline for the white house on Coronavirus Relief. The wall street journal writing nancy pelosi calls on the white house to show it was serious about reaching a deal on the Coronavirus Relief package by moving within 48 hours to reach an agreement on the remaining disputes. After speaking for over an hour with Steven Mnuchin saturday nancyss is closely pelosi put a 48 hour deadline on negotiations that have stretched on for months but would not say what happened. There remains an array of additional differences as we go provision by provision that must be addressed in a comprehensive manner in the next 48 hours. A spokesman for mr. Closely said on saturday night decisions must be made by the white house in order to demonstrate the administration is serious about reaching a bipartisan agreement that provides for americans with the greatest needs during the pandemic. Back to your calls. Which candidate is better for Older Americans . Joe biden supporter james in waynesboro, georgia. Forer my main reason supporting joe biden is that when president obama first took mcconnell,008, mitch newt gingrich, valve they would theyupport him vowed would not support him. Host are you still there . Caller can you hear me . They decided they would not support him. Do some good to for this country. That was a man from south carolina, not far from where i live, call the president a liar on national tv. I will not, cannot support a party that produces such hatred and disrespect for people. Disrespectful to the American People, the minorities. That is my comment. Thank you so much. Have a good day. Host frances in college station, texas. President trump supporter. Caller as late as yesterday i heard someone on cspan saying President Trump has not done anything. I want to address that. You cannot say he has not done anything good you can say it you do not like what he has done. Look at our borders. Through diplomacy and industry he is slowing down immigration on our southern border. You have to say i do not want immigration slowed down, i want thousands of people in america we do not know who they are. He is bringing home our soldiers and he is stopping the horrible wars and he has even worked on bringing peace to the middle east. You have to say i do not want peace in the middle east. I want our soldiers overseas in endless wars. He will bring us cheaper prescriptions in january. You have to say i do not want cheaper prescriptions. He has stopped china goods from overflowing our market a little bit. You have to say i do not want manufacturing in the United States, i wanted from china. He has moved the capital to jerusalem, so you have to say i did not want that to be done. He stopped us having to take isis of those european people in syria. Europe was fine with us keeping their people indefinitely in jail. Want theto say i United States to be paying for those european isis fighters. Host this alert you to yours on twitter a similar view to yours on twitter, he has done everything he has promised. Every Law Enforcement agency and Union Supports trump, not one supports biden. In massachusetts, robert, a joe biden supporter. Go ahead. You become older when youre 80 years old and you make foolish mistakes, that makes you an old full. An old fool. Says donaldone trump is the best president theyve ever seen in their life, where have you been . You do not know anything about president johnson . He gave Early Childhood education. He signed the civil rights bill. You tell me donald trump is better than him . Is better than president kennedy . Person youe young make bullish mistakes, but when you are you make foolish mistakes, but when you are an old person youll be in an old fool. When you grow up, remember your mother and father taught you things. You say this man is the best present you ever seen . This is ridiculous. You people are racist. Yet to learn something in 80 years. Come on, people. I get so tired of old white people talking about the best president in their life. ,ost we will go to penelope san antonio, a President Trump supporter. Caller i am a President Trump supporter. Medicare. Ncern is i noticed that before trump was , the medicare law for bid the government from trying to ease drug prices. Ordering,ent trump is yes he might spend less money on it is much better for the country, it is much better for you, and that is why i am supporting President Trump. I cannot pick every single issue, but i can pick an issue i know, i was concerned about, and we were such fools we did not even attempt to negotiate drug bid by lawt we for the negotiation of drug prices and somebody finally came along and said lets try to get you some prices for our people. Much andnly follow so then your mind goes off. Follow one thing. Discover it. I have lived in texas all of my life. Host penelope . Time, for the longest republicans did not get elected anything in texas. It was mainly because the democrats cheated. They still cheat and they will always cheat, and they will tell you anything you want to hear when the time comes to vote. Im not saying the republicans do not do the same. I have heard from republicans for 50 years, and i cannot vote for them. Host we will let you go there. Comments from President Trump earlier this week in florida. Coverage from that as he battles for seniors votes, he tweets a meme mocking joe biden is elderly and disabled. That tweet from earlier this week came from President Trump. Not forjoe biden, president , but for resident. A picture of seniors and Joe Biden Photoshopped into one of those individuals in this picture. The president several stops in the midwest, one of them was michigan. Here is some of that. [video clip] democratstrump the would terminate our recovery with the draconian unscientific lockdown iq governor is doing right now for everybody except for her husband. That is right. She is doing it for everybody except my husband out, he can get except my husband, he can go sailing every time. A guy like joe biden and the democrats want to keep michigan locked up, locked down and closed for business. Lock her up, lock her up, lock her up. Lock her up, lock her up, lock her up. Trump i guess they said she was threatened. She blamed me. She blamed me. Our people or the ones that worked with her people. Lets see what happens. Lets see what happens. I will tell you something. Our fbi has to start looking at antifa and they have to start looking at some people they are not looking at like they should be. Host at that michigan rally yesterday, the crowd railing lock her up at the mention of Gretchen Whitmer, the governor tweeting this in response. This is exactly the rhetoric that has put me, my family, and other government officials lives in danger as we try to save the lives of fellow americans. It needs to stop. Governor Gretchen Whitmer of michigan. A few more calls on our first morning topic. Seniors, which is the best candidate for Older Americans . 202 7488001 four trump and mike pence supporters, and 202 7488002 four biden and harris. James, bidenity, supporter. Caller i live in new york and we went through the worst corona devastation. Thanks to cuomo we have lowered it. Ladies and gentlemen, republicans, democrats, independents, green party, libertarians. Listen to me. Knew donaldd i trump, i met him a few times at the u. S. Open, he is very charismatic, but i know for a fact, i have a friend who went to school with him, and i said, what was he like as a student . He looked at me and he said i do not know, and i said excuse me, you told me you went to school with him. He said he never showed up in class. Whenever they would take roll call they would mention his name and say not present. It got to the point where it was a joke the whole group of students would sing in unison, not present. This man makes pt barnum look like nothing. Seniors, im a senior. 1970,mber reading in 1984. The Republican Party has not had a Health Care Insurance thing for 10 years. It gets me very upset when i hear people say two or three years. It has been 10 years. Obamas health care was the romney Heritage Health care. It is a Republican Health care. The reason everybody hates it, i do not want to go into the racial space. You can figure it out. Host james in new york. This is paul in chesapeake, virginia. Who are you supporting . Caller i am supporting probably trump this time. I voted libertarian last time. I am looking at saving the constitutional bill of rights. You know, i hear a lot of people , the racism and everything else. Lets take a look at the liberal colleges that have set up segregated dormitories, safe spaces for speech where you do not have the freedom of speech. Anytime i hear democrats talk about wanting to fundamentally change america, that to me is telling me they want to fundamentally change the many billon or repeal of rights amendments. The last thing i would like to say is they talk about Voter Suppression as well. I have a hard time understanding at least aou have year or more to register to vote. Many of these states are already voting, and you can also vote by absentee. Voting goes on for two to three months and they say you need more days to vote. How many more days do you need to vote . One more notet on voting. Michigan Appeals Court reinstates election day deadline. State Appeals Court moved up the deadline for voters to return mailin ballots, reimposing a cutoff favored by republicans during a surge in mailin voting around the country. Lets hear from chris in carson ville, michigan. Chris is a joe biden supporter. Go ahead caller i am a proud democrat. 23 for September Biden harris. I was the first person. I went over to the county Clerks Office and i handed in my vote, my mailin voting, and i was the first one to vote. For everybody saying joe biden will take this away and thataway and the democrats are going to itthis, lets remember that has been a Republican Congress person who and the has taken stuff away is the man in the oval office named donald pay taxes. Oes not if you want to keep your Social Security and your medicare, do not dont you think he ought to contribute into that . Socialistocrats being , we have socialized medicine in the form of medicare. Medicare is one of the greatest things this country has ever had. Extended,ve to see it which joe biden is going to do, he is going to drop it down to plans. The democrats have only two belittle is only to belittle. I take great offense in him calling our great Governor Whitmer names. He does not like women. In fact, he hatesin fact, he ha. Whitmer got passed for. S a new Auto Insurance bill she passed it. There. E will let you go thank you for your calls on this topic. There is more ahead on washington journal. We are joined next by doctored howard markel. He is a professor at the university of michigan and director for the history of medicine. We are going to get an update on where things are with covid19 and his Historical Perspective of how it stacks up against other pandemics. Peter baker and Susan Glasser join us to talk about their book on james baker. Tv onrican history cspan3. Exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. Today at 9 00 a. M. Eastern. The final debate between Ronald Reagan and walter mondale. Then at 10 30, the second debate between george h to view bush and michael dukakis. H w bush and michael dukakis. The speech on church and state followed by Ronald Reagans 1966 the list of the great societys speech. Exploring the american stories, watch American History tv today on cspan3. Had a choice to make. Do i let my people run it really well or badly . Badly, they will blame him and they will blame me. He has cost 10 Million People their health care because of his recession. With less than two weeks before the 2020 election, watch the second president ial debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President joe biden thursday from Belmont University in nashville, tennessee. Live coverage begins at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan with it live on the seas print cspan. Listen live on the cspan radio app. With the Senate Confirmation hearings for judge Amy Coney Barrett concluded, watch the next steps in the confirmation process, starting thursday, live at 9 00 a. M. Eastern. The Senate Judiciary Committee Votes on judge barretts nomination. Friday at 10 00 a. M. Eastern, live on cspan2, the full Senate Begins debate on Amy Coney Barretts confirmation. Watch live on cspan and cspan2. Stream or ondemand at cspan. Org or listen live on the cspan radio app. Washington journal continues. Host joining us this morning from ann arbor, michigan is the director of the senate for the history of medicine at the university of michigan, dr. Howard markel. Welcome back to washington journal. Guest thank you. Host lets start with some perspective of the latest count on the New York Times tracker of covid19. This is nytimes. Com. 8. 1total of u. S. Cases, million cases. 52,000 reported yesterday. That is a 28 increase in the number of deaths. 219,173. Dr. Markel, you last joined us in april or may. Fairly early on. A couple of things. Are things sort of tracking the way you thought they would. . Based upon your Historical Perspective, is this what you expected . Guest it is staggering, isnt it . It is and it is not the way i would have predicted. Historians are terrible predictors. In may,n we last spoke particularly in my own home state of michigan, many states were employing social distancing measures quite strictly. And quite well. And we were predicting the downturn in cases, which we saw in the few months that followed. [indiscernible] cases began to pop up again and again and again. Now, it looks like i hate the term wave. That is a 1930s metaphor for influenza epidemiology. The covid virus has always been circulating. What has changed is we are no longer hiding from it as well. And as we go out and interact with other people for long periods of time, we are susceptible to catching it. So, we are seeing another spike in cases. The New York Times graphics are very powerful in how they show between may and the present, the number of cases that expands across the continental United States. And we are almost back to where we were. It is a very harrowing observation. Host i want to ask you. We read this story about the sturgis motorcycle rally. I had a caller from sturgis and the Washington Post had a story about the spread of the and the seed for spread across the midwest states, particularly the upper midwest and Mountain West states. One of the issues they pointed out was the difficulty in what is called Contact Tracing. Have we gotten better at doing that over the course of the pandemic . Guest no. Because we are not testing everybody. The universe of positive people. When you get sick and hospitalized and when you die, wasknow that somebody positive for covid or not. But because we have so many very mild may have symptoms who never go see the doctor or are asymptomatic and are carriers who dont know. As more people interact with one another, it makes Contact Tracing almost impossible because there is simply too many people. Ort was one of the notions one of the ideals of social distancing is that the number of new cases would be low enough that our existing health agencies, which dont nearly have the budgets that they did 10 to 20 to 30 years ago could go out and contact tracer. We are not doing a better job. We are not testing enough people and we dont have the manpower, frankly, to do that. Host dr. Howard markel is with us. He is the director for the center of medicine at the university of michigan. For those of you in the eastern and central time zones, 202 7488000. Mountain and pacific, 202 7488001. For medical professionals, the line is 202 7488002. Lets put out there are some of the pandemics that have affected the u. S. In particular that we will talk about during the course of the program. , some8, what was called termed the spanish flu, the h1n1 virus. The h2 into virus. N2 virus. N1 2009 virus. What do you see now in the winter months based on the 1918 flu . Guest this is my concern. I sincerely hope i am wrong. I hope you can have me back in six months and say you were as wrong as you can be. But i dont think i am. As we see more spikes in cases and more spread of coronavirus across the nation, we cannot but the paste experience of coronavirus is that it likes warm cold weather better than warm weather. Although it was active in the warm weather of summer. As well as the seasonal flu that comes along every winter, i believe many more people will get sick. Sadly, Many Americans will die just covid alone or a combination of covid and influenza. We are not out of the woods yet. Most epidemiologists would agree with me that the months to come are very concerning. Host you have come to this as the director of medicine from a wide number of fields. A professor of psychiatry, history, english and literature. Creek didthe you help create the center there . Guest i did. All of those titles, i cannot hold down a steady job or something. I am a pediatrician by training. Phd in the history of medicine and science, especially for a long time writing and studying about epidemics in the past. Dr. Go ahead, markel, finish up. Guest the titles you mentioned are courtesy titles for my colleagues. I founded a Research Unit to apply medical, Historical Research. Firstrate Historical Research to Public Health policy. Host we first talked to dr. Markel back in may. What has it been like, virtually i assume, in terms of researchers, students accessing the data that you have on past pandemics and past medical history . Produced, inwe collaboration with the cdc, a massive encyclopedia called the digital 1918, 1919 influenza of the american express. You can access the at www. Influenza archives. Org. It has the biographies, if you will, of 50 large American Cities during the pandemic. Of what happened, how they experienced the flu as well as all of the data we collected over the years to study what worked and what did not in 1918. Daynewspapers delivered per during the entire second and third waves. Federal documents, local state documents, photos, you name it. About 30,000 get to 40,000 hits per month. That is really gratifying. Some of our policymakers all the way down to High School Students for National History day. Created has been through the wonders of the internet. It would be harder to access those in libraries without actually getting there. In terms of my own work, i am teaching remotely. It is working far better than i predicted. That is great. Our students have always been wonderful. I am actually teaching a literature and medicine course right now. We have been studying epidemics in literature the past few months. That has been very helpful for me and my students. Our meetings are all done that way. The campus is not closed. 20 of classes at the university are open. They are largely Laboratory Courses where you have to physically be present. Hunkering down and social distancing as well as to be expected. Host our lines, 202 7488000 for those of you in the eastern and central time zones. Mountain and1 for specific time zones. Medical professionals, 202 7488002. On first. Re caller i called in as a senior to basically give my opinion as a senior. Now you are on to covid19. My comment is this. I cant understand how anyone can support trump, being that he is risking people, he is ignoring all of the recommendations from his own task force to try to increase his probability of being reelected. But he is doing that at the cost of putting people in danger. From that standpoint, i dont see how anyone can support the president. Host dr. Markel, any thoughts . The moste of protectable thing about this covid pandemic is its unpredictability. One of the things that surprised me the most is the absolute partisanship of the pandemic. We have one half of the country thinking the federal government thinks everything is hunkydory. I am more of the former. I have study pandemics for more than half of my life. I have never seen a more partisan approach. And frankly a more wrongheaded one. Particularly in the past century blessed with been the wonders of modern science and epidemiology and modern virology and vaccine science. Not to mention modern medicine. I cant help but think that we could have done a better job under different management. Some of my conservative colleagues have a hypothetical issue and i say no it is not. There are several countries doing far brother debtor than the United States because of a more far better than the United States because of a rigorous, stepbystep program where they put down the methods, depending on when they need to and what is going out in the committee. Better and more widespread act tracing and a less Business Leadership style where the president is tweeting about the governor of my stay. That woman is this or that. Or liberate michigan or things like that. So, it is incredibly problematic. Not to mention, the undermining of superb scientific agencies from the federal government, such as the nih, the cdc, even the fda. These are examples of where government does work and works rather well. And they have all been stymied. We have career scientists who have been overridden and stymied in a way that is not only inappropriate, it is actually quite dangerous. Host let me ask you about the election your nature of it. I will go back to 1918 in the 1918 pandemic started in march of 1918. You pointed out in the past, there was a surge in 2019 mainly. Ue to deaths what about the election of 1920, did the pandemic have any affect on the at all . Guest no. There was a wave in the early part of that year. From january through march or april of 1920. But the election was not until the following november. Affected, you can imagine, there may have been in some places, the absentee ballots. Theid not have nearly protocol or processing for absentee ballots that we have today. Just forget, women were getting to vote. That was an important milestone. Half of our population of adults. There was no television. And radio was pretty new as a medium. Ofitical ads were not part the landscape like they are today. On the flipside, most newspapers and there were two or more back then. Sometimes as many as seven or eight. Those newspapers aligned with either one party or the other. The socialist party or the communist party or what have you. People did have access to their party lines. And those newspapers, by the way, they were not just published ones. They went through six or eight different additions during the day. They were updated and they people could get new information. It was not nearly the same kind of situation that we see today. From hudson, new york. Good morning. Caller i have a question for the doctor about the fact that how come we are not quarantining houses with the virus and allowing the Healthy People to go out . Cautionstients take every day to keep themselves safe from numerous diseases. Now . Snt that happening back in these other years, they never quarantined the Healthy People. Why is that happening . I will allow the doctor to talk. Well, lets go through some definitions. Isolation of a patient refers to somebody who actually has the Infectious Disease in question. Today we proved that with a culture or antibody test. They are isolated so they will not get others sick. When doctors and other Health Care Professionals take care of them, those people are generally in an isolated room. There are precautions taking place. Quarantine has always been for the socalled healthy. It refers to those who are suspected of having contact with the ill. They will be sequestered for a certain period of time, largely depending on the National History of the bacterial or viral because in question for a lets say somebody in a house or household has been proven to have covid19 and they are sick enough to be removed to a hospital. They would be in isolation. The other household members would be in quarantine area they would be asked to quarantine. They would be asked to insulate themselves. To remain in asked their houses and not out in the public for 14 days. The Public Health department would call them to make sure they had enough food and so on. That would be how we would use that in a perfect world. What has been problematic is how different parts of the country, different states and different cities are applying these scientific methodologies differently or not at all. And that is true, as well, of face masks. It is hard to make laws to mandate people to wear face masks. You can pass a law. But enforcing it would require an enormous amount of police to catch this guy and that guy who is not wearing a mask. You are not only wearing a mask to protect yourself. You are not only quarantining yourself to protect yourself, you are also doing that to protect others. Remember, a very infectious respiratory disease like covert is a social disease. We have a responsibility to our communities not to infect ourselves or our family, but also others. Our neighbors, our townspeople, who we may come in contact with. And that is not being emphasized enough, in my view. Host lets go to frederick, who is calling from brunswick, georgia. Caller yes. I just wanted to make a couple of comments. When you are president , you rely on your experts to guide you and give you the information you need. They were showing on fox news where dr. Fauci was stating that masks didnt do no good. He was making this statement that there was not any use in wearing one. But then he makes the flipflop and makes trump look bad and says oh yeah, we need to wear masks. One time, he is saying one thing and another time he is saying something else. You know, when you have somebody like that that especially when he owns stock in moderna and tends to profit from inoculations that are going to be given out, it makes you wonder exactly where he is coming from. Isdoes not matter who president. This virus is going to spread no matter what. So, if biden becomes president , he cant do nothing any different than trump has done to prevent this spread. They said your mask mandate, social distancing, weve done everything like that, especially up in new york, cuomo was requesting all this help. They were building these temporary hospitals and the hospital ship comes up there and they dont even end up using them. Cuomo is putting sick people in the nursing homes. When you have stuff like that going on, everything is political now, instead of trying to get the job done and get people cured and getting this over with. Ourave to continue with economy. We just cant stay dormant forever. Host dr. Markel. Guest there is so much there that i will try to answer each issue as i can remember them. I would recommend you get a different news source. You are not being properly informed. I have seen no evidence of dr. Fauci, as a 40 official at the nih, Holding Stock in anything other than perhaps his pension plan. Second of all, dr. Fauci is perhaps the most talented and smartest Infectious Disease expert in the world. Tv playing or replaying what was said in march compared to what is being said today, talk about fake news. That is just inappropriate. Let me explain. If you were my patient in the hospital and i was on rounds and i saw you in the morning and your Blood Pressure looked good and your heart rate look good, i would walk away and say you are doing well. If i came back later in the evening and saw that you were white as a sheet and your pulse was threading and your Blood Pressure was plummeting, i would think, properly, that you are losing blood somewhere. I would order a transfusion. That is not flipflopping. That is called being a doctor. You dont flipflop. Orders as we understand the sciences. Is health in march, when we were talking about face masks to begin with, we did not have enough face masks in our national stockpile. Something that was depleted in 2009 and which the United States congress, all the way to the did not take the time to replenish. That is a congressional issue and they dropped the ball on that. Healthcare workers, firemen, policemen and so on, had access to face masks. But also, because we never had any experience with the coronavirus before, it is a novel coronavirus. The data on face masks was based on influenza. That was kind of 50. A lot of us iffy. A lot of us could go one way with one study or another way with a different one. In august and july, it became clear that face masks were this is not to embarrass the president or anyone else it was that doctors and scientists had more data. If they did not present that information to the public and urge them to wear face masks, they would be derelict of their duties. It would be criminal for not advising them. So, i dont think that was an approach to embarrass the president. It was an approach to update the American People on what we have learned and what we are learning every day. Now, lets go to the concept goinghe epidemic is to spread, just let it rip. That would get a lot more people sick and a lot more people would die. One of the virtues of living in the 21st century as opposed to the 14th century is that we dont have to do that anymore. We know enough about how to prevent people from getting sick. Does it have an impact on the economy . You betcha. Thought about these social distancing measures back in 2006, 2 thousand seven and 2008, when7 they were working to establish evidencebased from this, we knew it would be only used in a worstcase scenario. We have a lot of people dying as a result of it. Almost mirroring the 1918 pandemic. That is pretty much the worst case scenario. We felt compelled to use it to save lives. Nature magazine, one of the most prominent journals in the world thought that on a global perspective, they could not make another method that saved more lives in a shorter period of time in the history of humankind. Pretty on are pretty solid ground there. Here is some information about the 1918 pandemic. Those cities that shut themselves down did not allow public gatherings and close the schools closed the schools and for aearlier longer period of time had a far better comeback than cities that stopped or opened up too early. That is not dr. Markel saying that. That is the Federal Reserve paper of new york saying that. The best way is to make this issue,c a low occurrence by time so we can make a vaccine and develop better medicine for it. And prevent hospitals from being sickun by people who are with the covid infection. That is the approach we have been trying. The president and some of his advisors who, frankly, have no credentials whatsoever to make predictions of epidemiology , who have been thwarting those efforts. Bem not saying that to partisan. I am saying that as a scholar and someone who has observed s for aypes of phenomenonw long time. Host what is the likelihood of the virus mutating . Thehow might that affect concept of pert immunity . Viruses like coronavirus mutate all the time. A good example of that is the string that was most prevalent in wuhan, china and elsewhere in china back in january, which seems like a million years ago, a lot of those People Living in wuhan, 5 million of them traveled elsewhere in china and into europe before the Chinese Government quarantined that area. So, the string that came to america strain that came to america had already mutated. The string that is most prevalent right now is a european strain and not a chinese strain. Viruses mutate all the time but they dont necessarily mean much. Sometimes mutations are a little mistake in the genome of the virus. Sometimes it is a massive issue that changes the way it can travel or infect other people. That is precisely what happened probably in china back in november or december, is that this coronavirus, which is probably an animal virus. We think it came from a horse but we dont know. It somehow mutated so that it was easily transmissible from human to human but respiratory droplets and breathing and coughing. Can it mutate again . Sure. And that makes a moving target. Especially for vaccine production. Because we are producing vaccines based on one type of virus. And if the virus changes quite a bit, we have to tweak the vaccine as well. I am telling you this as an old pediatrician, from giving tens of thousands of shots. Heard immunity is a concept where there are enough people in the community who are immune to the Infectious Disease so that it will not spread very widely. Host go ahead. Guest im sorry. You heard about what heard immunity is. Is when you catch the disease and develop a response. We know people who catch covid are probably immune for maybe four or five months. But they could get it again. The immunity if you get a vaccine lasts far longer. That is the goal, the magic bullet is a very safe vaccine. Some of us want 80 to 90 . That is what i am used two with childhood Infectious Diseases. The higher the herd immunity based on the vaccine, the better. Vaccineng target of the , of the virus is a concern. Virologistssts and are looking and watching this very closely. Host lets hear from wanda in chico, california. Good morning. Caller good morning. This isant to say that a political disease, only because of President Trump. If it was a democrat, it would not be a political issue. This is the first time a virus has been used as a political issue. Noto, even though it did affect as many people, it was worse because it was affecting children. The whole country never did shut down for polio. The coronavirus, it killed mostly sick old people who are going to die next week anyhow. I dont understand why this is such a big deal compared to other diseases and why is it a political issue now . When this has never been the case for any other disease in history . Host do you want to type this into our experience with polio and the vaccine in particular . Guest sure. The first word in Public Health is public for a reason. Hasy epidemic event politics attached to it. Albeit i do agree that this is the most political of all. You have to remember that different viruses are different. That is a pithy way of saying it. They spread differently. Polio is actually a gastrointestinal virus. You are generally ingesting water that is tainted with the feces of another person who had polio and that is how you contracted. Contract it. The nation during the severe shut down in a small way. Understand, well into 1948 to 1949 how polio was contracted. Camps,ut down summer swimming pools and closed theaters. In theed to propagate summer. Until they knew how it spread, they tried a variety of things. You are right, however, that the polio vaccine and virus was not so much of a political issue, it was an american issue. Lets remember that it was franklin d roosevelt, a democrat , which has nothing to do with the leadership i am talking about now, but Franklin Roosevelt started after his polio in 1920 by rehabilitating in georgia. Watert that the warm there was somewhat healing and he started a foundation, the warm springs foundation, that would allow polio patients to come down and recuperate with him. As it got bigger, he realized he needed to do more things with it. Tapped his law partner to run the foundation, especially as he ran for governor and president in 1932. That became the National Foundation for paralysis which is now called the march of dimes. That was announced in 1938 when fdr was president. He said this will be a nonpartisan, scientific foundation, that is there to help the aftercare of people with polio. All of the research that went into developing the iron lung and creating what were the first intestine care units in america and ultimately the vaccine. And it was funded not by the government, because we did not have yet the National Institute of health as we have today. He cdc did not yet exist the National Science foundation did not yet exist. It was funded by the pennies, dimes and quarters of American People, who were concerned, as you say, by children getting the disease. Although adults can get it too as fdr shows. But it was a very successful Public Health campaign. Host this is sherry. You are on with dr. Howard markel. Caller i have a question and a comment as well. I was watching msnbc this morning. I try to watch lots of different news sources. About they talked this advisor was going to have a vaccine ready to roll out by the end of november and it might take about six months before it is distributed widely. I want to know if you consider that fake news. My comment is i think this administration has done an amazing job with an unknown virus. That with the masks and ventilators that they have supplied, i think they have done an amazing job on handling this. I dont know why people think that it is all the president s fault when, a pandemic by nature, is a big unknown and you deal with it and take it into account. I work in a hospital. Back when this first started to come out, when the vaccine came out, we prepared for the worst. Lots of meetings and stocking equipment, lots of plans in place. Thankfully, the worst never materialized read it has been really quiet. Materialized. It has been really quiet. My grandson plays in a football league. We go every saturday morning. Less than 10 of the people wear masks and they are sitting right next to each other in the stands and we, still in my area, have not been hit hard. I think that the media and the political aspect of this is trying to turn america into being afraid, being cowards when it is not such a big deal as everybody is thinking it out to be. I just wanted to know what you thought about vaccines. Is it true that it will come out at the end of november . That is my question. Let me know what you think. Guest thank you for that. Clip that youthe are talking about. It is hard for me to comment on the accuracy of that particular reporting. What i have read in the newspaper is that pfizer said it will not be ready by the end of november as was promised by the president. Becauseooks like that there are several different vaccines in the works. There are several other Companies Working on it too. It is not likely at all to be ready by the end of november. Even if they were, which they are not, you would have to make hundreds of millions of doses to immunize everyone. Some scientists have been predicting that this may be the type of immunization for you need a shot at one point and you ord a booster three or six however many months down the road. And that becomes the responsibility of the American People. Because if we do not all roll up our sleeves and get immunized, there will be more people who get sick and die. As far as your community, i am glad they have not been hardhit. You are speaking with luck. That does not mean it is scientifically sound. I can speak for many all of my college. None of us want to induce fear. Colleagues. None of us want to induce fear. We want to induce informed concern to prevent the possibility of getting an infection. It is, as you know, serious. For some, it is deadly. Even those people who survive covid, a lot of them have aftereffects. Liver, kidney effects. It is not a very good virus to contract. I do agree that the vaccine is what is going to get us out of this. We cannot rush it. We have to do it in a sound, scientific manner. We have to make sure that if there are any adverse effects, they are mild such as a sore arm mild virus but something that would not make you very sick or kill you. It is quite a challenge. It is a novel coronavirus. Has one strand of Genetic Information that is more easily broken up and makes it more difficult to make a vaccine against. Virusher use of this rna is hiv aids. These are difficult viruses to make vaccines against. Host dean phillips tweets dr. Markel, how much worse was the h1n1 spread and contagion when obama was president in 2009 . Guest this is another incredible trope that has been spread through the news. First of all, the Obama Administration did a good job with the control of influenza. H1n1 in the early weeks, it was my 49th birthday, april 23 two thousand nine, they were announcing the 2009, they it were announcing the seriousness of it in mexico. In late april and early may, we had the number of deaths in mexico as an obvious marker of a measure. We did not have a very good count of how many cases there were. When you are trying to figure influenzaverity of an epidemic or pandemic, you want to divide deaths by number of cases. That is the case fatality rate. The higher it is, the more deadly it is. The more serious you have to take it in terms of Public Health. Was twoarly weeks, it or 3 , which is approximately what was going on in 1918. By early may, we had enough numbers for that denominator that we realized that the case fatality rate was very low. It was. 4 . Seasonal flu case fatality rates are about. 1 . It really mirrored seasonal flu. It was a pandemic in that it spread all over the world. But it was not killing people more than a seasonal flu epidemic. So we did not rule out the Nuclear Option of quarantining and isolation and public gathering bands and school closures. We were holding back a little bit and focused more on a vaccine. Of course, we have been making flu vaccines since the 1940s. We know how to do that. Here is the kicker. For swinelu vaccine flu was ready in september, november, december of 2009, you could not give the stuff away. About 20 of all americans got their flu shot because they were already on to the next thing. That is an issue too. We have a responsibility [indiscernible] to get vaccinated when the vaccines are ready. Of great pandemics in history, 2009 will not be high on the list. Covid, while it will not be number one, it will be number 2, 3 or four. It is pretty severe and pretty deadly. Host calling from miami, florida, good morning. Caller good morning. The president said that we have to live with this disease. T is not a seasonal thing i am asking the question, how long will we have to live with this and are we going to live with it for years or months . Have anything to do with covid19 and the filtration of not catching it . Do beards have anything to do with that . Just asking. Guest i didnt catch the last part. Host i didnt catch that either. Caperhaps you can address the rest of his comments. Tost i said we are going have to handle this stuff for weeks or months. But probably measure it in years. Hopefully not many years but at least a year. We are coming pretty close to that. I am a horrible predictor. That is why i am a historian. I am more comfortable with the past. I can prognosticate a position. Until we get a very powerful vaccine, that makes the majority of people out there immune to catching covid, this will not be over. It down if we use social distancing measures and Contact Tracing and testing. But, we will still be susceptible. Right now, perhaps one out of seven americans have contracted covid19. That means that six out of seven, you can do the math. There is about 328 million americans, are still susceptible. I can tell you that teenagers and College Students do get it. And people our age and older to get it and very sick from it fro. The end is in sight when we develop a vaccine. What is positive about that statement is look how blessed we are with modern science. And the methods of creating miraculous vaccines and antiviral drugs. That is what is going to get us out of this. That is what is different from errors of the past eras of the past. The powers of medicine are so great that i am confident we will have a vaccine. I hope we have it by spring of 2021 or the summer. But, because i am not involved in that, i cannot tell you with any specificity. It will not be tomorrow though. Think a number of americans who tested positive, the figure is 8. 5 million. Is there a metric where we can from that, figure out that 8. 5 million tested positive, that means there are probably x number of millions who are undetected but are also positive. . Guest you can only do a guesstimate. It is probably several times that. I cannot tell you with any specificity what that number is. Host lets go to tom in california. Good morning. Guest the one out of seven somee i cited gives guesstimate. Host right. Caller tom, you are on the air. Go ahead. Host tom, youre on the air. Go ahead. Caller i dont know how many people it was a good thing that they did not put out hurry up and get amassed. There was a shortage. If anybody remembers when this first started, you could not hardly get toilet paper. It was the same thing if you went to a hardware store. There were no masks available. Even trying to order one was ridiculous. There was a big run on all of that stuff. Like a mask, you go to your doctor and they wear them for a reason. To stop the spread of infections and to keep you safe and them. Anybody isw, if blaming somebody for trying to keep their run on a mask, it is vertically. Only in. Markel, not terms of just masks but how this pandemic may change approach to our health care, you talked about having masks available, will americans become more supply minded in preparation for future possible pandemics . What do you think the History Lesson will be here . Guest that is a great question. I agree with the caller. Masks are not that hard to put on or take off. It is a mild thing. But there was a shortage and there was a run on them. How will this change our behavior . I tell you this. If this pandemic does not change our collective behavior in terms of funding our local, state, federal and International Health agencies, if we dont do more research on newly emerging Infectious Diseases, maybe even creating a library of vaccines thatifferent agents so they are ready for mass production if another epidemic or pandemic strikes, lets are only 20 years into the 21st century and we have had six of these events. 1 flu, mers, ebola, there is one other i am forgetting and this one. We have had five or six of these. This is not going away. We have not conquered germs. We have only wrestled them to a draw. I think more people will have masks on hand. Already seen how the handshake has changed. Touch are not so happy to other peoples hands. We have seen the change in our children and how they talk. If you grew up in the 1960s, you are taught cough. Grew up in the 1960s, you were taught to cover your mouth when you cough. To we take care of ourselves the big things, how we surveilled the world and how we interact with other nations so that we are always in touch with one another about what is brewing and where and how we can thwart those infections, i hope that is the change we see in the future. Host lets go to robert in atlanta, georgia. Caller good morning. This is excellent. While we are on masks, please remind people to make sure they go over the nose and mouth. Thoughtning to you, i of this. I am an attorney. I heard a jury consultant say that when you are picking a jury, 20 of the people do not believe man walked on the moon. In reflecting on what youre dealing with, we have a segment of the population and you heard some of the calls here that h1n1, somebody in georgia talked about this thing and the other thing. There is a group of people to do not believe man walked on the moon and believed in conspiracy theories about jfk and believed the u. S. Was involved in taking down the world trade center. I am wondering from a Public Health perspective, how in the world we can get to these people . You suggested to one of the call is that they needed an alternative new source. I am very concerned that our current president and many of his enablers feed that narrative for their own personal, political power. I am wondering if you could deal with that. Thanks again for your excellent presentation. Question ofis the the day. Today, information is not only democratized through the internet cables, radio, television and, of course, social media, it is actually atomized so that everybody can get the news source that best feeds their worldview. There used to be a saying that you are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts. That has been overturned in recent years. That is particularly true with this covid pandemic. We have some who have cited a waspiracy theory that it created as a weapon in a Chinese Laboratory even though that has been proven not to be the case. Even our cia says that is not the case. I never thought i would cite a National Intelligence agency but even the cia does not believe that is true. We have a Huge Population of what are called antifactors antivaxers. It has grown and risen. Different people dont like vaccines for different reasons. A leftwing or rightwing issue. You have people who dont want that the vaccine government endorses because they dont trust that government. As well as people who dont want it for other reasons. I have to tell you this bluntly. If i were asked to make a list of the top 10 greatest hits in the history of medicine across time, nine of them would be the vaccines that we prevent so many diseases with an eye would be underestimating at that. Forou think about vaccines polio, chickenpox, measles, diphtheria, shingles, hpv , over the years, they have prevented hundreds and hundreds of millions of cases and deaths from these once very common infectious killers. It is very hard as a pediatrician when i have patients or parents who say i dont believe in vaccines. You know, it is very hard to convince somebody otherwise. But that is the struggle. And we continue and we try to do calm,n column, polite polite and respectful terms but it is an uphill struggle. Host one more call. Larry from tuscaloosa, alabama. Go ahead. Caller how are yall doing . Good. Caller i am blessed. I have a few questions and i would like to make a comment to the gym and from georgia. It is hard to legislate stupid. Some people dont want to wear no mask. Is inve the president who charge of the worlds strongest country in the world who does not want to wear a mask. He just went to a rally not too long ago. And that is dangerous. That is really dangerous. Dr. , yourd you say, heard about the herd immunity. I think that is what the president is doing. I could be wrong. If you are having a rally, even in a closed area and you are not wearing a mask and you know there is a deadly virus out there, in the air and you are not wearing a mask, you are putting other people in jeopardy as well. This immune system is like if you have a strong immune system and this herd immunity, you might possibly survive. What about the other people like the elder people or the babies or those who are most affected by this virus . What about them . We dont have a vaccine. Dying and were need to do something to stop this virus. The only thing you can do is set the example of mr. Donald trump. Do it, wear your mask and social distance and wash your hands and be safe and pray. Host larry and alabama. In alabama. We have talked about the vaccine. What about the treatment for covid19 . Have we gotten better over the past eight months or so . Guest we actually have. For one, doctors were not able to recognize the early symptoms of covid19 because they had never seen it back in february or march. We have gotten better at that and diagnosing the situation. And they have developed a number of treatments. Some of which the president has gone. Some are experimental. There they have been better careplying intensive techniques to support these patients. I think that is one of the reasons even though cases continue to go up, the daily death rate is there but it is not going up or day. Chunk of large anywhere from 300 to 1000 deaths in america per day. But it is not climbing to 2000 or 3000 per day. , doctors and Infectious Disease doctors are adding better at treating it. They will get better as time goes along. Earlier,e, as i said the real magic bullet, the thing that will deliver us from this evil is the powerful vaccine. Host dr. Howard markel, director of the university of michigans center for the history of medicine, we will check back in with you in late winter or early spring. Keeping our fingers crossed and seeing how things are then. Dr. Markel. Can cut my covid beard off when this is over. Host [laughter] guest it is getting pretty long. Host i look forward to seeing we are joined by journalist peter baker and Susan Glasser to talk about their brandnew book of former on the life secretary of state and former white house chief of staff james baker. That is next. Monday night on the communicators, the publican sec commissioner talks about 5g infrastructure, free speech on the internet and regulation a big tech companies. I think we should bring a light touch approach to regulating big tech, went up to now there has been a no touch reproach approach. Never had a gap between the size, scale, and power of an institution like tech in the absence or near absence of regulation. Watch the communicators with the fcc commissioner brendan car monday night at 8 00 eastern on cspan two. The president s, available in paperback, hardcover, and ebook. President s of every for a successful presidency. As americans go to the polls next month to decide who should lead our country, this offers perspective into the lives that forged each president s leadership style. To learn more about our president s and the future historians, visit cspan. Org the president s in order your copy today wherever books are sold. We are weeks away from election day, november 3, when control of congress and who occupies the white house next year will be decided. A state with cspan here President Trump and joe biden make their case to the public and watch some of the hotly contested house and senate races. Camping 2020 coverage, every day on cspan, cspan. Org, or listen on the cspan radio app, your place for an unfiltered view of politics. Journal continues. Byt we are joined journalists peter baker and Susan Glasser on the brandnew book on james baker, the life and times of james baker. Iner baker, no relation come Susan Glasser, welcome to washington journal. Let me start with a question about the idea of doing this book on james baker. This obviously predates the 2020 election, but this is earlier than 2016 correct . Visualize thenot rise of donald trump in the transformation of the Republican Party we started this book back in the obama era. We had a sense that baker was a character who would help us to write a big story about washington as well has as well as his own personal story. From watergaten to the end of the cold war and james baker is in the middle of that. Host was an easy prey . Did he easily agreed to be interviewed for the book project . Wast at this point, he willing and ready for some of the l2 write a biography about him. Some ready for amebody else to write biography about him. He was open and cooperative. He didnt put anything off balance. He was very generous with us. Host what was it about him personally and about his stellar career in washington and before that that initially you to talk to him . Guest i think we realized we were delighted to realize that no one had done an independent book of history about him. When you think about it, baker has a unique resume in american politics as well as policy, because he combines the two. Operative andical unparalleled success. He ran five Different National president ial campaigns, but also was white house chief of staff twice, the only person to hold that job twice. As well as treasury secretary and secretary of state when the end of the cold war happened. Was tied upgure who with henry kissinger. There is a reason why the former National Security advisor to obama said he thought baker was the most important unelected official in the United States since the end of world war ii. Host the book was a great reminder to me the james baker had an sort of things that you forgot that he did. You write in there, and i noted that this is, james baker fought against the reagan revolution inside the Republican Party on behalf of gerald ford and george bush, and then came the revolutions most capable executor as the Reagan White House chief of staff and bush secretary of state and watch the unraveling in eastern europe, another revolution he did not start that figured out how to channel. The lesson he had taken from these events was simple and clear, with the tectonic plates of history move, move with them. He did over the course of several presidencies. Guest that is exactly right. It is interesting to think about a president picking as a chief of staff 70 that had ran to campaigns against him. Think about that good i cant even imagine that in todays washington. Reagan wanted somebody to translate his vision into reality erie he knew he needed someone who had a better sense of washington that he and his california crew had. It speaks a lot about reagan and it speaks a lot about reagan about the marriage of man and moment. Bakerare guests, peter and Susan Glasser and their new book about james baker. We welcome your comments. 202 7488001 four republicans. For democrats, 202 7488000. For independents 202 7488002. Texts, encourage your 202 6280184 202 7488003. We talk about white house chief of staff for Ronald Reagan, secretary of state for George H W Bush, and also white house chief of staff. What brought him into washington in the first place under the presidency . Guest it was not a normal trajectory. Wasnt normal for it now or ever. After one year of his arrival in washington, he went to run the president ial campaign. That is the surprise for peter and i was to realize during this time, much jim baker was an indispensable man in washington. He didnt even get there until he was 45 years old, making him the worlds most successful midcareer change. His story of the previous two decades in houston i think really was a fascinating one for us to learn. It began with an unlikely friendship with George Herbert walker bush on the tennis court at Houston Country Club. Host was he has fierce a competitor in sports as your chevy bush was, reportedly . W bush was, reportedly . Guest he was looking for a partner in one persons name on the wall and 16 singles tournaments was a guy named james baker. They had a connection through a cousin. Their friendship on the court was rooted in mutual competitiveness. You saw that in sports and threat their political careers. Host he comes to washington as undersecretary of converse in 1976, and he was made chairman of gerald fords campaign in 1976. As you point out in the book, he had several elected Office Failures in texas. What is it about a guy who success running for Public Office made gerald ford say this is the guy i went running my campaign . Guest he was inexperienced and naturallead to his abilities and that competitive ness comes from. He escaped the narrow constraints of houston life as a lawyer. He went to bigger and bigger playing fields, leading to international diplomacy. Basically thed only experience he had before that was helping his friend ,eorge bush in a senate race where he ran in a county that included houston. And then he did some fundraising after that at the president ial level. He was bitten by the politics result of will, a that 1976 race. It was 1978 ran for Texas Attorney general in his one and only effort at elected office. Not only did he lose, but it was clear to those who observed him heer. E was not a baby kiss history wouldve been different had he won that. Host tell us what you write in the book about his father and his guidance in terms of politics to james baker. Guest his family is part of. Ouston by james baker the third and we cant tell you why. They explained because they were bad at math. He had a family legacy and they did so much to build modern houston. They built institutions but they were not into politics. The family actually was work hard, study, and keep out of politics. That is something jim baker did for the first 40 years of his life. He had a family tragedy with his first wife, who passed away and George H W Bush had come and work with me and will help you mourningugh your period. The man whok is ran washington the life and times of james a. Baker. Baker, no is james relation, and Susan Glasser we welcome your comments. 202 7488001 four republicans. For democrats. 202 7488002 for independents. Has anyone equaled the role since . Guest absolutely not. In some ways it is not even possible to conceive of a career such as the one that baker had come in part as peter said, you managed to transcend individual theidates and arrived at height of politics in washington. These days it is progressively harder to do. They baker unique was the ability to transcend the world of electoral politics in the world of policy and international diplomacy. That is something i havent seen since and arguably before, it was highly unusual as well. Host how did he or did he have the year of george w. Bush during his prejudices his presidency . George w. Bush, yes, you are right. He was his best friend, and helped him get elected and the recount that followed the election results. Adviceries to give him on erratic. On iraq. He later tries to help get out of iraq and wasnt listen to. Through his career, it showed how things changed in washington where james baker had been so integral to so many important Decision Making moments and had suddenly begun to pass on to the next generation the reins of power. Host lets go to calls for Susan Glasser and peter baker. Two louisville, kentucky. Louisville, kentucky. Caller nice to see you altogether again. A book about a chief of staff has to be something very interesting, and it seems like a really good subject. You get to find out things about people that you dont really know. I have to ask you one more question, who is your favorite writing partner don mitchell or Susan Glasser . No pressure. Best. Susan by far is the we were lucky because we are a married couple and that is why we are not socially distanced. We got together 21 years ago with Washington Post she was my editor and we were working on the clinton impeachment story. That is how we first got together. We have been very lucky to have this professional and personal ship with these two decades and they go hand in hand. And we are still talking. Host how do you delegate that . Who does what and who does what interview . How do you split that up . Lucky on this project and didnt intend it to be seven years. It took longer. We are very lucky that we were working on this together, because it was an allconsuming project. For me having a partner who was immersed in it was invaluable. We did a lot of interviews with secretary baker together, but peter is the hardest worker in the family. He gets much less sleep than i do, i have to say. Host lets do a call from texas. Lets go to cliff in san angelo. Caller congratulations on your book. I will be anxious to read it. I called in simply because you mentioned Houston Country Club. My father, george ritchie, was the tennis pro there at the Houston Country Club back with jim baker and george h w and played a lot of tennis. Was theter of fact, i number one ranked player in the United States in 1970. My name is cliff ritchie. I got a call when date when i was in houston and he said to me, we have a congressman that loves to play tennis over here who would you come and play tennis with him . It was george h w. It has been so long ago i cant remember, but i think maybe he had jim baker with him. Couldnt get him off the court good we were out there two hours. Hours. Ed there for two at the end of the match, to give you a cute story on george h w, he looked at me, and my dad had been the tennis coach in the 50 1950s, and president bush looked at me and i asked my dad have you ever met him, and he said no. He looked at me and said how is your dad, george, doing these days . One other quick story, i was in the Dallas Airport in the 1980s, and here comes jim baker with a couple of his bodyguards, maybe. I came out of the shadows and recognized him and i rushed over to him and its like, these days you cant do that, but i said mr. Baker, cliff ritchie, good to see you again. He was so nice. I just had to call. One question i would like to know was jim baker involved in politics before meeting president george h w . Guest thats a great question. Thank you for the tennis reminiscence. I think we want to ask you which one was the better player. Baker was the better player. Caller. Lost our it was his first wife mary stuart guest it was his first wife mary stuart when texas was largely democratic. Baker grew up as a democrat. He did not have a lot of Clinical Experience because the family motto was work hard and stay out of politics. And their friends were violently antifdr when baker grew up during the new deal. It actually was george bush who convinced baker to finally abandon his registration as a democrat when he went to work on that First Campaign and help to in the losing senate race as a republican. Guest we used to joke that on election day he would go vote because he often it often coincided with the opening of hunting season. He clearly was not very involved. Host lets go to pat in keyport, new jersey. Republican line. Go ahead. Caller i am curious if baker had any contact with cheney before the two president s bush. Thank you. Guest great question. His best some ways was friend. They are very different kind of republicans and have different views on things like the iraq war. At the time they were young people coming up in Washington Post watergate. You had a young white house chief of staff named dick cheney, and he noticed the sky over at the Commerce Department noticed this guy over at the Commerce Department and he brought him into the campaign in 1976 that gets baker really going. The two of them were close during the ford days and worked together. Even to this day, they are Close Friends in hunting and fishing together. Int lets hear from susan massachusetts, independent line. Morning, to sunday be able to wake up and make a cup of coffee and see you both together talking about this amazing book. I have heard about it. I sister texted me last week about it. Enough to have seen secretary bakers career serving various administrations and have inched his president s washington, a dignified, gifted respondys was able to to a changing world and national events. What a juxtaposition to look at his life and contributions compared to what we are doing with what wish with what we are doing with the white house now. I hope your book becomes mandatory reading in the public schools, because it does teach about Public Service when it is practiced correctly with great baker is justlso a unique gentlemen, i think. , and just the idea especially with what happened when senator feinstein this week have the gall to Say Something come from entry, at least kind to lindsey graham, i thought, granted i think it is time that maybe she leaves the senate because of her age, but just the way she has been treated like a pariah just because she acted civilly to a colleague on the other cited the aisle. I had a curiosity about mr. Bakers second wife susan and how she came into his life and the influence she had on his career and just life after they met and married. Strong,tand she was a very interesting woman peered at wouldnt mind hearing about the other susan, susan baker. Guest from once is into another, i can tell you she was first of all fantastically helpful to peter and i and working on this book. She was one of our consistently best interviews and often the real truth teller, interjecting a note of reality into some of our conversations. There is this incredible story of Susan Winston and how she became to be susan baker. She was one of jim bakers first wifes Close Friends, mary stuart. We mentioned mary stuart at a very young age and her earliest with four young sons was diagnosed with cancer. Enough, there is a letter that is in our book from jim baker to george bush in which he tells bush about this terrible diagnosis of cancer and he says, george, i have not told anyone. I didnt tell mary stuart, i didnt tell my mother, i didnt tell our children, but i am telling you. That for peter and i was quite rogatory as what was the nature of the bakerbush relationship and they had a close bond that goes far beyond cocktails at the country club. But interestingly enough, mary stuart knew this was happening to her. She confided in her friend Susan Winston and she wrote her own letter and gave it and told susan where to find it in their house after she passed away. There is this unbelievably moving scene in the book where susan comes over to the grieving household, finds the letter and gives it to baker. Baker read it out loud and cries every time he reads it, even now 50 years later. But susan had her own family struggles and has three children of her own with divorce from alcoholic husband. So they got together. It became the sort of brady bunch. Jim baker had four kids and susan had three kids, but it was the dark dystopian version of the brady bunch, not the cheery sitcom version. It really was a challenging merger of these two reading, troubled families. They ultimately had another daughter as well, so they had eight kids. The huge verdant fell the huge burden fell on susan. As baker was beginning public life, she had four and middle school at the same time in different schools driving around. She is a heroic figure. A very close advisor to her husband, she traveled often with him and he was secretary of state at the end of the cold war. She became a minor public figure in her own right. She worked with tipper gore on the summit controversial effort in the 1980s to do something about the very inflammatory lyrics and a lot of current music. Guest on homelessness, she was very big. She helped found and was a leader of National Homelessness organization. She devoted a lot to that cause. Host lets hear from chris in huntsville, alabama. Caller and tony blairs autobiography, he tells a story about the first time he ever came to america and in the book he says that when they were getting ready to go over, the tory conservatives assign him to try and convince jim baker to drop his tariffs on International Trade issues. Studied on the plane ride and he gets there and he tries to prevent the issues to jim baker and baker effortlessly batts it back one by one by one. Tony blair is feeling embarrassed. He was trying to get the secretary of the treasury to drop it and baker had no issues and new all the stuff on the top of his head. I just wanted to share that story. Where did he get the nickname the velvet hammer . Guest the reason why he was able to bat back even tony blair come as formidable as tony blair was, is because he was fanatical about operation. He listen to what you call the five ps. Hisou said it out loud, staff and kids would roll their eyes. That was one reason why he was so successful. There wasnt a meeting where he didnt have the brief going in. It was done in a way that people work out of their office still feeling ok, even if he didnt give them what they wanted. His cousin gave him that nickname when he came to washington and it stuck. Later, it was on a poster of jim baker. He so smooth that people walk away feeling good even if he has been tough as nails. Host the book is the man who ran washington the life and times of james a. Baker. We are welcoming your calls. John in southhampton, pennsylvania, republican line. Caller x for taking my call. Thanks for taking my call. Host you bet. Caller an interesting thing about mr. Baker is that he had a little war with the jewish community. Famous segment of that because they were demanding 10 million, a loan that we would guarantee, on top of all the other money that we were providing to them. Along with services we provide. They were rather arrogantly demanding. Stated and the president stated, bad feelings occurred. I think george the second the trip did his loss to the fact that the bad blood being created there. And susanr baker glasser, any response . Guest you are right there was some bad blood in a lot of ways. Baker was quoted as saying, as that has been somewhat twisted. We go back and revisit that in the book and try to explain where it came from. It came from an internal bribery that jim baker had with jack kemp, who leaked the story to a newspaper columnist. Distortedis, it was even then. Even the original column doesnt have them saying that. Him as saying then it quotes them as saying them. Israel lobby group in washington. You are right, he was not always a strong supporter of israeli policy. He was part of the Republican Party the time that disagreed with the settlements. That was an obstacle to peace. There was some friction there between bush and baker on the one side and israeli leadership on the other. That has changed, obviously. Today, republicans are staunchly proisrael and there is no room for criticism of policy. That is an indication of the evolution of the Republican Party over the years. Him asow hard was it for a trump campaign, as the 2016 election approached, was he torn over how he would vote . Guest he was very torn. Was walking ings parallel the rise of donald trump and bakers visible discomfort and angst about what to do about it. He had been supporting jeb bush, his friends son, in the republican primaries. We talked with him as he wrestled with this decision. I think in a way it for us helped us to understand the plight of the modern Republican Party certainly the establishment part of it to which shoemaker belonged. He told us that he thought he was nuts and crazy and those are words that he used. He was very against much of his policy agenda. He sees himself to this day as an internationalist, a free trader, a believer and alliances that were the hallmark of his diplomacy of the secretary of state. There is the question of the competence of the administration as the Gold Standard for white house chief of staff and democrats and republicans have looked to him to understand how to do that. That is the massive turnover in the white house, we saw political by the president. I remember visiting with secretary baker soon after the inauguration. Keepid, white does he saying mexico is going to pay for the wall . Mexico is not going to pay for the wall. He shouldnt say if it is not to rule if it is not true. He said, dont lie to the press and dont lie to the people. He thought that having a reputation and being a straight shooter was important. Obviously the opposite of a president who shot the record books in terms of untruth. Interestingly, baker very inuctantly voted for trump 2016, although he did not endorse him, and he told peter and i that at one point he was considering voting for joe biden, but please in the end dont say im going to do that, i am a republican even if my party has left me. It tells us a lot about where republicans are today. Host more calls and comments in a moment. A trip in history, a year ago james baker was with us on this program to look at the 30th Anniversary Commemoration of the fall of the berlin wall. We want to say play some of his recollections in that moment. [video clip] i was posting a lunch for the president of the philippines in a dining room at the top of the state department. Hers hosting a lunch for when in past me a note saying that the east German Government has Just Announced that they were going to permit traffic from east germany to west germany. To the assembled group at the table. Then excused myself to go to the white house to meet with president bush. Do you remember what you said in that toast . I dont remember the words of the toast, but it probably spoke to the importance of the event, forhe concept of freedom which all american president s, democratic and republican, had since harry truman. H wy truman through george bush, and i probably said some things about that. I remember president aquino being quite moved by the news. Conversationsl like with president bush in those first few hours after you got the news . Tost well, i went straight the white house, and the president in one or two other white house aides were discussing what the scope, the nature of our reaction ought to be. The president was quite clear, he said, you know, this is a big thing. Toreally is tantamount winning the cold war. But the one thing we need to avoid is triumphalism. We have a lot of business left to do with mikhail gorbachev, who was then president of the soviet union, and the foreign minister. These were reformers we had been working with and wanted to continue to support. We had a lot of work still to do then the president said, i dont think we need to stick it in their eye. He held a press conference in the oval office and i remember sitting next to him and the press were all over him about, why arent you being more emotional about this . After all, this is something america and western allies have fought for for 20 years. The president said, im not an emotional kind of guy. Im happy about this, but i dont think we need to dance on the ruins of the berlin wall. Guests susanth our glasser and peter baker. What did you see in the comments that ring familiar over your several years or seven years of conversations with jim baker . Guest i am so glad you played that. What a moment that was. The fault of the berlin wall lead to shaping the entire next few years in terms of reordering , the global order. That was the big project and incredible work that was required of baker and bush from 1989 through 1992. Peter and i came to reappreciate the notion that history is not as inevitable as it seems. Baker and states and bush did not cause the berlin wall to fall, in fact, it was a surprise when baker came in a secretary of state a few months earlier and some of the experts at the state department had forared the memo a memo him about it and concluded reluctantly that while it was a wonderful goal, it was a fantasy and wasnt going to be happening anytime soon. It was a big shock. They shaped what happened next in a crucial way, and in many ways the diplomacy that resulted in an agreement by the following october enlightening skiing time in the International Context the following october in lightning speed time, in the International Context, it was an incredible day. Someone said 1989 might have been the best years of our lives, we just didnt know it at the time. President aquino being there as a guest was very resident, because she was a leader as a because she was a leader. There was a sense in that moment that freedom was on the march and we were experiencing an inevitable wave of democratization and not going to be backwards. Host he is 90 years old now. Is he surprised or disappointed in the rise of russia and the neighboring countries and the authoritarianism that you point out . Guest i think he is. I think he thinks that is a moment in time that was full of possibility. Disappointed. We talked a little in the book on what are some of the reasons why what could have been done differently by the United States to cement changes that were occurring rather than simply encourage them . He would say, should there been a Marshall Plan for the soviet union to help it build back anchored in the west . He would say there was no appetite for it at the time. We were in a recession and no one did spend money on an enemy who is no longer an enemy. He said the change it is a shame we werent able to do more to solidify the changes that happened. It is the russians who decide what russia does. Hey sided with the hungarians int lets hear from ron michigan on the independent line. Caller i wonder if you would if you address in your book bakers role in treason in which the United States told South Vietnam not to make the deal for peace with diction with nixon that led to more debt americans. I am a vietnam veteran. James baker was party to war crimes and treason, plain and simple. He was part of the iran contra, again war crimes and treason. We can praise him all we want, but he was a criminal just like nixon, part of a criminal administration, and he voted for trump, part of a russian gangster criminal organization. Guest just to be clear, that was henry kissinger, not jim baker that the caller is talking about. Baker was blissfully ignorant of politics and that period of his life and still a lawyer in houston. Baker wascontra, probably an internal warning light, signaling not to get too involved in the first term of the Reagan Administration and the wars in latin america, which he viewed as a dangerous once. It was only after he left the white house and became treasury secretary that the actions that would come to be known as iran contra occurred. It in many ways, nancy reagan and others in the Reagan Administration believed that had baker remained as white house chief of staff or had he become National Security advisor as was contemplated at one point, that i rencontre never would have happened, but, of course, back to what might have hand happen, baker was often cited as being against it. Host coming from dale in north barda, he says james baker seemed be a nononsense, james from dale, he says baker seem to be a nononsense man i always paid attention to his view. Which president did he get along with best . Hadt he really actually four presidencies. Obviously his friendship with george hob which was unique. If you think about history, you cant think of another american president who was as close as he was with the secretary of state most are a political ally or arrival sometimes who is putting the cabinet to bring the party together. These two were friends long before politics. Their friendship is so powerful that it meant when baker landed in some foreign capital, it was like a president arriving. People knew that this man spoke for bush. They said nothing whatever come between him and his president. He had unique credibility. It didnt mean they didnt have their friction, they did. They were like sibling and had some sibling rivalry. There are eight point when baker got into there was a point when baker got into buschs face. Bushs face. Buschs bedside as the 41st president is passing away rubbing his feet in his last moments of his life. That is a relationship for a president and secretary of state that would never had. Host james baker had key roles in negotiating between the ofties and the convention 1976 between gerald ford and Ronald Reagans campaign and four years later Ronald Reagan would ask him to come and manage his campaign. Guest thats right. It is one of the great sort of reinvention acts in politics. He also asked george bush to be his Vice President after he accused him of practicing voodoo economics in the 1980 president ial primary. That thes you a lot politic that those politics dont exist right now. It wasnt just reagan who had the capacity to bring in someone who works hard against him, but it says a lot about the intrigue in the world around reagan. What we found in doing this book was baker had impressed some of those who worked with reagan as well as himself. They actually made a concerted effort before the 1980 election in the fall of 1980 when it looked like they might win, two decidedns key advisors they both claim authorship of this idea cited they would try to put baker in front and give him some time with governor reagan with the goal of installing him as chief of staff, because their internal rival had been reagans ideological gatekeeper and then his chief of staff in california , too much disaster. As theefcase was known place that papers went to die. They didnt think he was capable of having this most important staff job in the United States. There was a lot of tension and intrigue and that reagan inner circle that led to this, but says something very interesting about reagan that he agreed to it and embraced baker and saw him as the executor and implementer of his ideas, even though baker was viewed with suspicion, especially by many of the ideological believers of the reagan revolution. Rory on thes republican line. Caller basically baker was a sounding board for reagan and bush. He was the republican conservative type thing that had to be done. The democrats have shown had to be done because they are now very mitch very much socialists and communists in this country. He was right to do what he did. The president didnt like him a lot all the time, but he was necessary. Thats it. And susanmake glasser, any thoughts . Jim baker and Susan Glasser, any thoughts . Suspected he wasnt fully committed, partly because he worked for two candidates who would run against and was associated with four and bush. Baker always was a conservative in a real way. He is from texas and his instincts are conservatives. You see tension in politics between idealism and ideology and what do you do things to get things done . For baker it was more important to get things done. Reagan was a strong conservative. He also wanted to get stuff done. Baker close him as saying that reagan would say, im going to get 80 of what i want rather than flying my flag over the cliff on something he wasnt going to get. He was always about the art of the deal, about making deals. A conservative base but willing to give up things to get what he wanted. Guest just to be clear, the people he made deals with work democrats. He came from a different era when you dont call them communist when you disagree with them. Host our guests are peter baker and Susan Glasser on their book about james baker. 2 7488000 four democrats for democrats. 202 7488002, for others. We had a color that said your book should be taught in schools we had a caller who said your book should be taught in schools. If you had the class, where would you rate james baker in terms of the great cabinets of the past, socalled team of rivals under lincoln or fdrs cabinet . Guest in a lot of ways, the bush National Security team where the most cohesive National Security team probably in modern times you had jim aker at the state. You had that she had jim baker at the state. Colin powell who was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. You had bush himself. Five of them along with a handful of others like bob gates and so forth, were super collegial in their work and collaboration together. They didnt always agree, but they were trying to knife fight all the time. I think that is something we dont see a lot in washington these days. It was cohesive, i keep coming back to that word, that allowed them to deal with these big issues that minimized differences in order to achieve different things. Host go ahead Susan Glasser. Guest it was cohesive and also consequential. If you are looking at why you might study it, this approach was at a time when it was required. Our policies descended into namecalling and politicians who exist in order to win reelection. There was very bitter partisan policy at this time, but the goal was to get something done. I think you have to look at the record of what these people did in office as being something that really stands out. Baker was able to reform Social Security with democrats. Ofworked on the tax reform 1986, when he was treasury secretary, was the first and only major comments of rewrite of the tax code we have seen. And then you look at the first thing he did after the very divisive 1988 election, which was really a brutal knife fight against michael dukakis, but he went to thet democrats and came up with an end to the divisive fights that thelasted and much of 1980s for the funding of the contra wars in latin america. And then there is the dealmaking with the soviets and the coalition and assembling the coalition that foster fought the first gulf war. Baker brought so many Internet Coalition and it was almost the first conflict in American History that turn a profit. Host we did a special on the program on political advertising. What was james bakers view of the notorious Willie Horton ad that was run in that campaign . Guest it is part of bakers legacy. Politics as well as policy. In that particular case, that specific ad that has become so famous over the years was not actually aired by the Bush Campaign itself. It was aired by a separate, independent conservative group that supported bush. The Bush Campaign itself ran an ad that didnt use the name or face, but did highlight the program that Willie Horton was elated to. They did talk about Willie Horton a lot. They said at one point, im going to make Willie Horton be my running mate. It is not like he didnt have anything to do with it at ad itself was not bakers creation. He asked for them to take it down. We asked him about that and that was the one moment he said that the Willie Horton ad was probably something that was over the top and went too far but then takes a back and says, look, we had to win. We had to do what we had to do to win. They were 17 points down and came back to win the most extraordinary upset and president ial history to that date. Host lets go to sam, democrats line, maryland. Caller i address this question to Susan Glasser, who i read in the new yorker every week, knock strong, and rightly so. He is the worst president in American History. He is the biggest liar in American History. He is the most incompetent present to didnt incompetent president and you say that week after week after week and baker voted for him in 2016 and says he is going to vote him for him in 2020. How can you take jim baker seriously . He is a clown. Guest i appreciate you reading the new yorker for prescribing in the difficult times for journalism. I a way for peter and covering the Top Administration and writing a book like this, to celebrate our subjects or denigrate them, but to understand them. Power. Ok is a study of it is not a celebration of it. As i mentioned earlier in the program, peter and i spent seven years talking with secretary baker over his very conflicted feelings about trump. Andees trump for who he is it is not a very flattering portrait. Aker is a realist. Eventually baker is a realist. Sameu ask a question the if yes the same question five years in a row, you may not the same answer. It is something that has been telling over the extreme partisanship, but baker has chosen very consciously at the age of 90 and understood what we were asking him that this would be reported. I think he made a decision and a choice and wants to be remembered primarily as a republican who helped to build this party, whatever has become. Who are close to secretary baker and worked closely with him who were surprised and disappointed. Many democrats as well as republicans have held baker in the highest regard and understand uniquely was skilled and gifted in the art of working the powers here in washington. One of the last times we saw him in person was at the anniversary of the Baker Institute at rice university. The person that baker chose to come and appear alongside him was barack obama. They spoke about many things they agreed upon in terms of politics. But it isrd story, one that we had to look squarely in the face. Host when was the last time you talk to him and how is he doing . Guest he actually got covid this summer. He and his wife were isolated at the ranch from family. It was a rotten case. It knocked him for a loop. He said at one point he was in bed for five days straight. 90 years old and yet they both have recovered. Thank goodness for that. He is already elk hunting so that tells you about his constitution. The book came out and he seems good and strong. At age 90, we should all be so lucky. Host thats good to hear. End, orar from bill and a noncome the republican line. From bill in bend, oregon on. Caller it was amazing what has happened when james baker and the cabinet from ronald ragan in the first four years of reagans administration, things were rough. Everybody knows how successful james baker and Ronald Reagan and the cabinet pulled it together with an amazing administration. I complement james baker, at 90 years old, out elk hunting. I am only 62 and i have struggled to keep up with mr. Baker. That is awesome. What a great icon of our nation, a great man. I wish him the best, and the two of you theyre sitting in front of the tv, thank you very much for writing that. I will get to know more and more about the man be astonished how great a man james baker was. I thank you. Guest thank you very much. Host let me ask you i think we answer this question. Is there a similar figure working in government today and either party and i think you answered no peer but one more question, it sounds like a great book answered no. But one more question, that is david in new york. Guest baker is a religious man. People dont know that about him because he is perceived to be more moderate. , they read the bible every day. He is a spiritual man. He doesnt wear it on his sleeve. That is the difference between him and some. It helped him through difficult times. Helped himt really through the moment. Question, are you two together or independently working on another book russian mark book . Guest we are jumping a third time together and will be doing a book after the election and will be working on the Trump Presidency and these incredible last four years we have all seen. You can read Susan Glasser regularly in the new yorker and peter baker is the chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times. The new book is the man who ran washington, life and times of james a. Baker. Thank you so much. Guest glad you could be here. Back tomorrow morning at 7 00. From next, keep moments the Amy Coney Barrett confirmation hearing. Then, live with joe biden in North Carolina and later, election security. 61 million americans have some form of disability. The majority of those roles are portrayed by nondisabled actors. A summer with a disability, we want to see ourselves represented. Not only do we see ourselves represented, but it will help destigmatize disability and representation in general gets society used to everybody. The worldely makes and more inclusive place. The phone challenge and response to seeing disabilities underrepresented in front of and behind camera. People talk about this years essays and winning film. He will talk about this years winning entries in film. The menenders, about who ran for the presidency and lost but they changed political history
comparemela.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.