Dominated the waves in indiana between his first unsuccessful run for congress and his election to congress in he really made a 2000. Name for himself doing talk radio. He sort of fashioned himself after a rush limbaugh, sort of the decaffeinated version. I think the soundbite idea must have stemmed from those years. John Vice President ial debates usually only happen once an election cycle. But mike pence comes into this as the veteran. Take us back to 2016. What do we know about his Vice President ial debate style and what are you expecting from him tonight . Andrea he was deemed the winner of the debate against tim kaine in one of those polls taken after the confrontation. If you remember kaine did the , interrupting, and pence refrained. He remained unruffled throughout. And this is a skill he honed way back in high school. He attended Columbus North high school which had a nationally prizewinning speech and debate team. His senior year, he and the rest of the team went to seattle for the National ForensicLeague Competition and he placed third in a category called impromptu. And in that the division, you are given a topic right there on the spot. You have 30 seconds to think about it, and then you must address that topic for five minutes. So, he is good at this, and he has been doing it for a long time. John you said kaine did the interrupting back in 2016. How aggressive do you expect the Vice President to be tonight when he faces senator Kamala Harris on the debate stage . Are you expecting him to sit back, and for her to be more aggressive here . Andrea i think he will have zingers based on policy, he will be careful to look like he is not attacking her at all times. He sort of gave up personal attacks years ago after he ran a very negative campaign back in 1988. So he is not going to want to , look like he is after Kamala Harris personally. But i think he will stay focused on policy. He will attempt to show contrast on issues including law order, Foreign Policy experience. I think he is going to try to show he has more expertise on domestic and Foreign Policy issues. John explain what confessions of a negative campaigner was . Andrea after his 1988 campaign, he went through soulsearching. Part of it stemmed from the way he found people responding to him. In this negative campaign, he ran against phil sharp who was a wellregarded incumbent. In a desperate measure at the end, the pence people put out a push poll that was really not factually based and was an attempt to paint sharp in one way and swing the election. It he said people didnt , return his calls. He understood that his campaign had made a mistake. He wrote a mea culpa and he explained why he felt negative campaigning was wrong. He didnt forsake all negative campaigning because he proceeded to say if your negative , statement is grounded in policy then it is acceptable. , but negative campaigning for the sake of negative campaigning is not moral, essentially. John talking to andrea neal this morning, author of pence the path to power focusing on the debate tonight. In salt lake city, utah. Taking place at the university of utah at their Kingsbury Hall. Heres a picture on your screen of Kingsbury Hall where the candidates are to be seated. We are expecting for plexiglass screens to be in front of them for covid19 precautions. If you want to talk about the Vice President and your expectations for him tonight, now is the time to call in. It is 2027488001 if you support the trumppence ticket. 2027488000 if you support the bidenharris to get. If you are undecided, 2027488002. Andrea whatll, was the path to power . Andrea it was a long road starting in high school when he first ran for Student Government office as a junior in high school and was defeated and took it personally. Then he ran for senior class president and won. And, i would say that was the beginning of the path to power. He had several false starts running for congress in 1988 and 1990. Then, he took time off and he worked for a think tank, was a talk show host, and then saw an opening and ran for congress in 2001. He has been on that path ever since, including what some would say a path with ambitions toward the presidency. John in usa today on the opinion page, kurt cardella, a Senior Advisor with the Lincoln Project and a former spokesperson with republican committees on capitol hill. This is what he said about his expectations for mike pence. He will speak with conviction, he wont be obnoxious. He will get the kind of performance that traditional conservatives wished donald trump was capable of giving. Pence is able to keep them on board and resist the temptation to jump ship to joe biden. This is the stop the bleeding debate. Andrea i agree to a extent. We know trump is punching aggressively. Pence is going to want to look moderate in style if not in substance and he is going to maintain a polite tone. He is to maintain a courteous tone. I think it will be vigorous because he is a vigorous debate r. He has a lot of facts at his command and i think people use them. I think he will be prepared to scrutinize Kamala Harriss record. Her days in california, and her current record. John what do we know about how he is preparing . Who is helping him prepare . Andrea i dont know so i cant answer that question. One thing i can be certain of is he has been preparing. That would perhaps be another contrast between pence and President Trump, who seemed to think the presidency itself was adequate preparation. Pence will have spent a lot of time getting ready and certainly getting ready to scrutinize harriss record. John this is rebecca in port orange, florida. On the line for those who support the trumppence ticket. Caller i dont have a question. I am just concerned with the mailin ballots. I dont see that many biden signs in the area i live in. I am just concerned about the mailin ballots. John do you think mailin ballots is going to be one of the big issues tonight . Andrea i think the Trump Administration has articulated a concern with potential fraud with mailin ballots. Indiana has any voter id law for some time. It has been upheld by the courts and it is useful when you show up at the polls to cast about. To cast your ballot. In indiana, absentee ballot voting has been accepted for decades and that has gone well also. I am sure the Trump Administration is deploying investigators and lawyers to make sure that kind of fraud with mailin ballots will not occur. It is one of those issues playing out differently because of covid. And the fear of going to the polls. Yesterday was the first day for voting in indiana. The lines were very long. I think that people want to vote in person to know their votes are counted and are willing to wait in line if need be and avoid the crowds on election day. I think there will be early voting in those states that permit it as well as the mailin voting. John a good time to go to a caller in indiana. From connors phil. This is gary on the line that supports the biden harris ticket. Caller good morning. I have to tell you right now. When i make a prediction on something. It is based more on general fairness rather than personal preference. I would say with Kamala Harris, mr. Pence has got this. I tell you, he has got everything going for him. I wish Kamala Harris the best of luck, maybe she can put up a good fight, i dont know. Mr. Pence is the one. Andrea youre right. He has learned from his mistakes. One of the most notorious ones was in 2015. There was a dustup over the passage of a freedom restoration act which was signed and law by by Government Law governor pence. He went on the defense. For the first time in anyones memory, he crumbled under George Stephanopouloss questions. It was pretty much a disaster. From that day forward, he valve he vowed that it was not going to happen again. John this is amy out of North Carolina for those who support the trumppence ticket. Caller i want people to understand what this election is about. It is not about trump and pence and biden and harris. This is between freedom or going towards socialism. They are already talking about taking away the second amendment. They want to get rid of the electoral college. Beto orourke is going to be in charge of taking away your guns. Bernie sanders is going to be in charge of health care. That is what it is going to be. They dont believe in private property ownership, the government controls everything. This is not about people and personalities, this is between whether or not we are going to stay america, keep our freedom, or we are going to go towards socialism. John does that sound like what . Andrea i think that is the case that mike pence will try to make tonight. We know mike pence is a strong defender of the free market and freedom. He is a philosopher of the constitution, agrees with john locke and the natural rights of life, liberty, and private property. I think that you have given a good preview of the comments he may make tonight. John back to schererville, indiana. This is evan for the line of those who support others. Caller i am for spike for Vice President. John what is your thought about what is going to happen between Kamala Harris and mike pence tonight . Caller i think Kamala Harris will probably win it, but she shouldnt be running. She should be wanting to be appointed attorney general of the u. S. I think she would be good at that. Andrea i think people will be judging both candidates tonight , not for their talent as Vice President but as their potential for becoming president. I think that in the case of donald trump and joe biden, there is concern among the electorate that for one reason or another they might not be able to serve out four years and that harris or pence could fill the shoes of the presidency. So i think voters will be , evaluating them as potential president s as much as Vice President s. John from twitter, writes in during this conversation saying he or she thinks trump is trumpian puppet. It is incredible pence does not practice his faith as vp. John can you talk about mike pence and his faith . Andrea his faith is so strong. It is amiss interpretation of him. I would say authentic. He has used whatever opportunity before him as a chance to promote his vision of the common good. I think we can all say it looks hypocritical to be an avowed evangelical christian working for a president seed that is somewhat turbulent and occasionally vulgar. In pences view, donald trump is the vessel god placed before him to achieve his own vision, his own goals, which in some cases might be religious in nature. So his faith goes back many , years. He was raised as a roman catholic. He had a conversion moment when he attended hanover college. And, even in the 1990s, he was still describing himself as a catholic but as an evangelical , catholic. He is closely tied in with evangelical negative around the evangelical groups around the country and they believe in him. I think issues with his religious views can best be seen, one is abortion and his other is his view towards israel. I think his position on both is grounded in his believing of the bible. He believes life begins at conception but his opposition to roe v. Wade is grounded in that it was improperly decided and should be more properly decided at the state level. Through state legislators. There is no doubt he turns to bible passages to justify his policies on both abortion and israel. John about 10 minutes left in this segment. You can call in on lines split up. 2027488000 if you support the bidenharris ticket. 2027488001 if you support the trumppence ticket. All others or undecided 2027488002 for undecided. John supporting joe biden. Want to talk about the election in general. I feel like trump had a lot going for him in 2016 and he had a lot of help. There are a couple of things in his favor. No emails, no wiki leaks, no hillary clinton, no james comey. People know about russia, people know about facebook and they know about twitter. It seems like people did not like hillary. [no audio] john andrea neal . Andrea this summer of social unrest, the summer of mask wearing the year of covid19 are , issues that are actually extremely different from what the country was facing in 2016. I have got to think in some ways the election is going to be a referendum on the Trump Administrations policies on covid, on law and order. I think that mike pence tonight is going to make a case on law and order. I think hes going to blame Democratic Leaders for some of the unrest we have seen that has resulted in violence. I think the republicans are hoping to capitalize on that. And, mike pence can legitimately claim a law and order status as he is a strong defender of law enforcement, full funding of police, and such. So i think the 2020 election is , a whole different ballgame from 2016. John another twitter comment, this one saying what do you think about pences record in Public Health emergencies . The hiv outbreak and the Pandemic Task force . Andrea he took flak for being slow to recognize the need for needle exchanges in Southern Indiana communities that were being rocked by the method crisis. I think that his criticism that was well deserved. I think at the beginning of the covid crisis, donald trump appointed pence to the task force. I think that was a good call by donald trump. Because one thing mike pence can do is bring a sense of calm to an issue. He does believe in science. Critics aside, i think he was more than willing to listen to what the best Scientific Minds around the world had to say. I think what happened early in the process is President Trump was the one who wanted to be the face of the Pandemic Response , which probably prevented mike pence from asserting leadership that i think he could have brought to bear on the issue. Now on Public Health, his record is mixed. If you go back to his days in congress, he voted against president obamas Affordable Care act but he pushed for a state waiver that led to extensive expansion of state medicaid called the indiana program. He has a mixed record but a commitment overall to Public Health. John this is george in sparta, that line for those who support bidenharris. Go ahead. Caller yes. Are youo say, when people going to wise up, and trump is wanting to be a dictator like his buddy pruden and the general in north korea. This is ridiculous. John this is sally out of ohio on the line for those who support the trumppence ticket. Go ahead. Caller i am proud and loving everything President Trump has done for our country. I think he should go down as our best president. I just love all he is doing. I encourage all that he is doing. The judges. I hope they can approve this new judge they are putting in and it can go in before the election. I hope and pray more people see his goodness and his love for this country. I dont want to live under a communist country. I have studied communism when i was in school and i have seen this coming about more and more over the decades. I am an old person. I really can see this coming, the news channels are not covering our president. Good coverage on our president. They are just telling lies and most people are watching all the various stations. We watch fox, that is the only station they havent had control of. But they are trying to. They are telling people the truth. John sally in ohio. Andrea neal on the nomination guest there is no question that responsiblergely for convincing trump that one of his biggest contributions she could make to the conservative movement was transforming the face of the federal judiciary, and i think that amy coney penceswould be mike dream justice on the Supreme Court. ,he is a strict constructionist again reminding that he is a of a couple ofnt wellknown in indiana conservative constitutional scholars, and also a big believer of separation of powers and federalism, and i think he will defend Amy Coney Barrett tonight with every ounce of strength he has. Her being seated on the Supreme Court would be a great accomplishment in pences eyes. Heould not be surprised if cast a tiebreaking vote to affirm her. He has cast a few important votes since 2016. Host another treat for you on twitter saying the Vice President is a career politician. When it comes to trumps criticism of career politicians, how has he square that with his Vice President . Guest i have to agree that mike pence is a career politician, but that is what donald trump needed. He had to have someone with experience dealing with the legislative branch, governing, which trump had from two branches. As trump was weighing the possible running mates, that weighed heavily in his favor. Because he was not that wellknown across the nation, i think trump felt that he did not come with the baggage of a Chris Christie or newt gingrich. There is a career politician element to mike pence. Host one less call for you, stacy waiting in virginia for those who support the bidenharris ticket. Caller good morning, america. Thank you for taking my call. Cannot run out of religion because religious freedom is discrimination based on religious beliefs. He cannot run on the coronavirus because he handled it just like he handled the hiv outbreak in indiana, over 20,000 americans are dead, and as far as law and order, it has been a klansman, nazis, white supremacist who shot and killed federal police officers, who set police stations on fire, who tore down statues. Those have been the people fbi have been arresting, not black people. They have been blaming black people for the crimes White Supremacists commit. Pence has no record to run on. He should be running from the law, not for office. Host i will give you the final 1. 5 minutes. Ofst pence is a man moderation. He believes in proper moderation in all things, certainly when it comes to style. On matters of substance, you could arguably say that his religious views inform his position on some issues. I think tonight he will avoid social issues to the extent possible, because i think he understands the issues americas care most about involve public size andovid, the extent of government. One thing we have not talked about today is pences physical abuse, which differ in part from donald trump. When he was in congress, he went against the Republican Party because he could not understand why they were not doing something to tackle the deficit. If he had the opportunity to go to those traditional Republican Issues tonight, he might do so, firm up what i guess you would call the establishment republican base, which trump obviously has struggled with. I think we may have some surprises tonight. I am looking forward to a spirited debate. Adria neil is author of the book pastor power, a former editor at the indianapolis star. Thanks so much for joining us on the washington journal. taking the time to focus on vice