President ial transitions. They talked about how they react to news of President Trump testing positive for the coronavirus. They also looked at issues transitioning from one administration to another. Good morning, and welcome to talking hendersons. Im the director. We all woke up to the shocking news this morning. Before we get started, let me send our best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery to President Trump, the first lady, as well as all the officials who worked closely with the president. Out from november 3, americans across the country have already started voting in the most important president ial election in a generation. President elect joe biden or reelected President Donald Trump will face a double digit unemployment situation, a global pandemic, a reckoning on racial inequality, and a divided nation. The one institution that could help address these problems is the federal government. And the federal government needs to be effective if its going to deliver for the American People. Thats why preparation and fighting today is critical for effectiveness on january 20. Regardless of who wins, a smooth transition this year is not enough. This year, we need the best transition ever in american history. Should Vice President biden win, the challenges are truly daunting. In normal times, a new president faces mammoth tasks. 878 day period to form a government, select more than 4000 political appointees, 5 trillion budget, and rollout and ambitious policy agenda. Thats in normal times. But today is not normal. In addition to the normal challenges i just mentioned, the next president will have to get 13 Million People back to work, distribute 330 million vaccines, and bring our country back together again. Should President Trump win, the transition will also be incredibly challenging. Our data from the last three to the last three twoterm presidencies suggests that half of top officials across the government leave within six months of the second inauguration. Half. Thats a normal turn rate. But unfortunately, it comes on top of almost 133 senior positions that are currently vacant without an incumbent or without a nominee. A huge challenge for a reelected President Trump will be attracting competent and qualified people to serve. Preparation, as weve learned on our podcast, is essential for year five. If theres a change in administration, the outgoing president will also have a solemn responsibility under law to facilitate a smooth transition. Much as president george w. Bush did for incoming president barack obama. Transitions are always hard. Theyre chaotic. The time is short, 78 days. And if the election is not decided on november 3, there will be even less time to get ready for day one. Will become more difficult because every day will matter. Thats why this event, talking transitions, comes at such an important time. We are pleased to be hosting this first event of its kind, a nonpartisan event in association with the truly amazing president ial libraries from the past four president s. The george and barbara bush foundation, the clinton president ial center, the george w. Bush president ial center, the obama foundation, and also the uvas center, the leading Research Center in the country on the american presidency. Thank you all for your incredible support, partnership, and collaboration. Our work at the partnership for Public Service has never been more important. For four president ial cycles, weve worked to make transitions better, smoother, and faster because the success of the presidency is directly correlated with the success of their transitions. And throughout this cycle, weve worked with the three most important actors. The Trump White House, the career officials across the government, who are preparing for either eventuality, as well as the biden team. Now, we have thousands of people watching this event. The Largest Group represents the dedicated Career Agency officials tasked with transition planning under the law. They must prepare for either eventuality. Every elected President Trump or a new president a reelected President Trump or a new President Biden. We realize how hard and delicate the work is every day. We will support you and we salute you. I want to thank a few people before handing it over to penny pritzker. Max has the partnership for Public Service. Hes been an advocate for more effective transition planning before anybody else focused on it. Second, the center has a truly worldclass advisory board, one that ive benefited from sage advice, counsel, and support. My longtime friend , president clintons chief of staff. First bolton, president bushs chief of staff, who i called the godfather of smooth transitions. Governor mike leavitt led the romney transition planning effort. Romney didnt win, but mike created a new Gold Standard for transition planning. Penny is one of the few people i know whos been equally successful in business, in government, and with her philanthropy. Let me also thank the amazing teams at the partnership, at the libraries, and at the Miller Center who have pulled this event together. With that, let me turn it over to penny pritzker. Penny . You veryvid, thank much for that very gracious welcome. Let me begin by wishing the president and the first lady a speedy recovery. David, you have been a tremendous leader of this vital project and we are so grateful that you have dedicated your time and your energy to this important effort for the benefit of our nation. Were also so very grateful to your dedicated team at the center for their long hours to support us all. The timing of todays conversation could not come at a more critical point for our nation. Given the weight of issues we face, both candidates will not only have to campaign vigorously, they also need to prepare to run the country for the next four years. The diverse and sizable audience we have today reflects the interests people have in a president ial transition, even if the process is not well understood. We have people from capitol hill, private industry, Good Government organizations, transition subject matter experts, political appointees, those who served on campaigns and Transition Teams, and the media. We also welcome the many federal career professional staff joining us this morning. Your expertise, institutional knowledge, and willingness to support administrations from both parties during a president ial transition and over the life of each administration is to be commended. And we are sincerely very grateful for your Public Service. Let me just say as a person who that came from business in the government service, and who has been given the honor of a lifetime serving in president obamas cabinet. I was blown away by the incredible talent, expertise, and innovative spirit of the career professionals. Not only in the department of commerce, but across the entire government. Quite honestly, some of the most capable people ive ever worked with were the career professionals in the National Institute of standards and technology, the National Oceanic and atmospheric administration, the bureau of industry and security, the census bureau, the National Weather service, and so many more important offices within our government. Day in and day out, they do this significantly important work on behalf of all of us. And frankly, they get too little credit or respect for it. So, i want to thank them all. In terms of our event today, the caliber of our speakers is a testament to the nonpartisan convening power of the partnership for Public Service. And their vital work to make our federal government work better. And it demonstrates the impact of the centers ability to provide support, expertise, and resources to a wide variety of groups that are transition stakeholders, including federal agencies, political appointees, and the president ial Transition Teams. The Center Brings unparalleled capacity to support president ial transition planning and execution. Their work has gone deeper and has gone broader than any other cycle, the three main stakeholders. [inaudible] what i am honored to serve as cochair of this critical effort , along with mike, josh bolton, and mike leavitt. Three simple extraordinary policies Public Service who i am blessed to call my friends. As david said, todays program is a oneofakind event. It draws together a highly respected group of senior officials from every administration from bush 41 to obama. President ial scholars and respected journalists. Its one of the most important parts of our democracy. Our commitment to the peaceful transition of power. The purpose of this event is to inform the public about how president ial candidates, Transition Teams, and the federal government is critical to the success of a new or a president s second term. By design, we do not have representatives from the current administration. Given our desire for each discussion to remain nonpartisan, and to the extent practical and nonpolitical. In our first panel, Margaret Brennan, face the nation moderator, will moderate a conversation with josh bolton, andy card, denis mcdonough, and matt mccarty, four outstanding former white house chief of staff. They will talk about their experiences preparing to take office, transitioning to a second term, planning to leave office, and what to expect in 2020 and 2021. Melody barnes, former director of the domestic policy council, will then lead a discussion with stephen hadley, lisa monaco, barbara perry, and john podesta about transitions and crises, and why this transition time transition period could be the most important and consequential since 1932. Let me say one thing about john podesta. He has more senior transition experience than probably any other living person and probably could have been on the first panel. We asked him to be on the panel with chiefs of staff. On reflection, we thought given on reflection, we thought given his experience as a 2008 transition, where he led the obama transition during the financial crisis and two wars, he would be hugely value added on the second panel entitled, transitions in crisis. And that may be, perhaps, the most relevant topic for today. For our final panel, amy walter will talk with four incredible public servants. Alexis hermon, valerie jarrett, karen hughes, and margaret spelling, about the complexities involved with the shift from campaigning for the presidency to governing when elected in either a first or second term. And to our audience, thank you so much for joining us today and for your many excellent questions. We hope to get to them as fast as we can throughout the mornings program. You can also be part of todays conversation on twitter by service andpublic system. G the public now, i would like to hand the program over to Margaret Brennan for our first panel. Thank you. Margaret thank you very much for all the nonpartisan work you do to explain to the public how the institutions that support our democracy function or are supposed to function. This is an extraordinary morning. I think all of us have woken up to this news with a little bit of shock. The one certainty of 2020 seems to be that nothing is certain and to expect the unexpected. So, i think this is a really fitting conversation today to have this powerhouse of minds who have been inside the west wing at the highest levels to help talk us through what planning needs to look like, what it should look like, what it is like in the moment of crisis. We are battling multiple crises as a country right now. Economic, health, racial, election uncertainty, and now the news this morning. I want to start by digging into this conversation with the chiefs. It will be a question for all of you. We are four years into the Trump Administration. Are they ready . Is mike pence ready for what is happening right now . Could you start us off. If you were chief of staff, what would you be doing on a morning like this . Well, margaret, first of all,. m glad to be here with you im delighted to be with my fellow chiefs. Thank you for your leadership. You set the table perfectly as you always do. Margaret, i think all of us would agree that Vice President ial picks are important during a campaign. And when you shift from that campaign to governing, the criteria for a Vice President is that he or she need to be ready to step in if the moment requires that, and be able to discharge the responsibilities as commander of chief and president of the united states. Clearly, from day one, that is an absolute essential of any effective administration. Morning,ere chief this you will be focusing on that. You will be fully engaged with the president , his family. As always, you have a multiple number of other issues that will be inevitable, even in times that were not quite as unprecedented as these. Margaret lets go to andy card. You know what its like to be chief, to be in that job in a moment of extreme National Crisis. What do you do on a morning like this . Andy well, first of all, i pray for the president and the first lady. I dont care what your political stripe is or what your philosophy is or bias, maybe. We all pray that the president and the first lady will recover quickly and be able to meet their response abilities. Responsibilities. I also point out that the white house has to keep everything working no matter whats going on. The first responsibility for a chief of staff is to make sure that people in the white house have confidence to be able to do their job and give them andission to do their job not try to jump into somebody byes lane or be distracted Current Events or distracted by the president s inability to attend meetings that he normally would attend. So, just having discipline, i think, and confidence and a steady hand makes a big difference. Its also important for the chief of staff to maintain the momentum that every cabinet member has been asked to maintain with regard to the policies and objectives. I would leave the Campaign Work to the campaign people. I would not as a chief of staff, i would say my job would be to help the government meet its responsibilities and let the campaign worry about the campaign responsibilities. But it is not an easy time. The truth is, as max said, its a time when you have to be prepared for more unexpected things to happen. And these unexpected challenges are likely to show up. And we want people to have confidence in our government, confidence in our democracy. And i do feel its the white houses responsibility to set expectations up so that people will have confidence in their government during these times of trouble. Margaret josh bolton, we are seeing a public that is riddled with anxiety right now and questioning our institutions. Now this. What would you be doing if you were chief . Do we need to, as members of the public, see the president come out today . What do you need to signal to the public today . Josh you need a signal to the public that the government is operating officially, normally, naturally. If the president is available, sure, put him on camera as well. Let me add my own best wishes to those of my colleagues for the first family and thanks to the partnership for Public Service, president ial foundation , and you margaret, for bringing us together on this important topic. And i think the topic just gets more important when we face a disruption, a potential crisis like were having right now. In a sense, its kind of a dry run for what we may be facing around election day. Margaret i want to get into some of those specifics around election day in a moment. But i do want to give Dennis Mcdonagh a chance to jump in and give his take on what we need to hear from the president today, from joe biden perhaps even. What needs to be signaled . And if you were chief, what would you be doing . Dennis yeah, margaret, thanks a lot. I want to thank my fellow chiefs. I want to thank david chiefs for the chance to be with them. I always enjoy that. I want to thank david and penny for all their work at the partnership, especially the event today. Look, the first most important thing is what Vice President biden has said today and what each of us chiefs have said. You started with it. Our wishes, our thoughts, our prayers for a speedy recovery for the first family go out. Our ongoing appreciation for that medical staff inside the white house, which has obviously been working overtime since last january when news first broke. Look, i think demonstrating that the government is at work is really important, hopefully reassuring to the American People. I think thats the written communication from the white house chief physician overnight. It does sound to me like the white house is talking about trying to get some very clear evidence of the president at work today. And that would make sense to me. Id just like to add one thing to the point that my colleagues have made. We do have troops all around the world right now. We have allies all around the world. And i would expect to see communication, not only with the cabinet, as everybody already referred to, but also communication from the white house to our allies. That, obviously, work continues here, official business continues, and that will be prudent and careful about the developments with the first family, but also continuing to , andy, and as matt josh have said, on the official business of government. That includes our allies. Margaret we know this morning the president is symptomatic. From our reporting, it is mildly symptomatic at this point. That question of how ill he becomes, it is something we frankly hope to learn more about, and is, as you point out, potentially a national secured security crisis because of this question of confidence. Josh bolton, i want to go back to you on something that you raised in your first answer. You know, we as a country, because of our high anxiety, are asking so many questions about basic civics of how transitions work, how the election will work. The details are so important because of this unprecedented circumstance in which the next election will be happening with this global pandemic. Given your observations of the campaign and the transition planning that is planning behind the scenes, how confident are you . What concerns do you have about a transition, either to a second trump term or into a Biden Administration . Josh well, margaret, the good news is that i think everybody should be comforted at the kind of work that is going on in both places to prepare for a transition. Obviously, that work is much more substantial and intense with respect to a potential biden presidency. But they, like, like other campaigns before them, not all, but most campaigns in recent times, have taken the transition very seriously. They have an Excellent Team in place. And i think they are likely to be well positioned to take over, despite the difficulty with the potentially multiple crises that they will be inheriting. I saw that firsthand in 2008 and 2009 with the obama transition, which was run by one of your next guests, john podesta. Very professional, very well organized, a good partner. And i think were seeing the same thing from the biden team. So on that side, its good. But we also know that the Trump White House is taking their responsibilities seriously. Theyre, of course, hoping and planning to remain in power. I hope theyre also treating it as an opportunity to refresh and reset as needed. Margaret youre talking about the mechanics of the process behind the scenes, led by chris guaido and others on the team. We know that the president s remarks have brought this into the public space, what a transition might look like. And to that point, dennis, can you pick up on that . Were told to expect a bolivia a litigated outcome to this election. We wont have clarity for potentially days, maybe weeks after november 3. We know that based on the amount of time it will take to tally up the Record Number of mailin votes that are expected. How concerned are you about the se circumstances and what influence they could have on a transition . Dennis yeah, thanks for the question, margaret. Princi everybody should take this time of transition very seriously. The fact is, the institutions, the Transition Team at the Biden Campaign, the Transition Team, that theres been some reporting on inside the white house over the last couple of weeks. But then, as importantly, david and penny teed up at the start, senior civilians, the federal workforce, who have mobilized and organized and prepared for a transition in either case. That is to say, into a second President Trump term or into a first President Biden term. All those wheels are moving, and moving quite effectively as near we can tell. I think its important to, in a context of your question, i think one thing president obama always thought saw this period is important for two reasons. One is only one president at a time. When theres a change, its important the current president run through the tape until january 20. Its also important that the current president recognize the transition and effective transition and a clean handoff to his successor is also part of the Job Description and the definition of an effective presidency, especially in the times of the kind of crisis that were living in. I hope that informs the ongoing work of the Transition Team inside the government, as i know it will among federal service, and i hope it informs the decision the president makes in the days leading up to voting and then coming out of voting. The institutions are strong. They work. Thats how josh started this a minute ago. I have every confidence theyll work again. I hope the president and his team understand that. The definition of an effective president starts also with the Job Description that includes the transition, clean handoff, especially in a time of crisis. Margaret indycar, back andy carr, back in 2000, we saw a contested outcome, as you well know, and because of what happened in florida, that delayed the transition period, certainly delayed clarity for a long period of time. What was the net effect of that and how do you see that as a potential parallel to an outcome we may see come november . Andy margaret, thank you for that question and thank you for your leadership in this conversation. Yes, that was a challenge. However, it was also a blessing. I got to spend time with the president elect that we didnt even know it was the president elect, planning what kind of government he wanted while secretary james a. Baker iii and joe albo were managing the recount and the question of hanging chads and dealing with the lawyers and everything else. We were focused on building a white house staff first and a cabinet second. The president elect and i had a wonderful time working under the radar screen because most people were focused on what was happening in florida. We could spend time getting to know each other very well, and having me understand what his priorities were, not just in terms of policy, but in terms of his relationship to people in the white house staff and in the cabinet and going through names and kind of building a white house staff without the expectation every day of having to talk to the press. And so that was a blessing. But we did leave the question of who won up to jim baker and joe albo. Josh bolton was focusing on the policies on day one, which happened to be education reform, and we also had joe hagan already working to help make sure we had the infrastructure of support to get things done. A lot of people dont recognize there were kind of two transitions. One transition is truly a white house transition, and thats where the president has Immediate Impact on putting someone in position. He can say in the morning, i want john smith to be on my staff and in the afternoon, he shows up. In the cabinet, you have to make sure you go to the process of informing the senate and giving them a chance to ratify that decision. There are two transitions. One is the white house to get ready for the real transition into governing and then the transition into governing. I was lucky to have the experience of an uncertain election result do have more time organizing the white house staff than you normally get to do, and some president s have suffered because they didnt get their staff organized under the end of the process. And its better to have it done at the beginning of the process. The team the president elect to together, starting with jim baker and karl rove really helped make a big difference in having the white house ready and helped the rest of government understand. Margaret and josh, can you pick up on that, josh bolton, a little bit. We heard some of the positives, but there were complications because of the delay as well. In the wake of the 9 11 attacks and the abbreviated transition and some of the negative impacts that may have contributed to the to problems within the administration. Practically speaking, how complicated does it become in these circumstances . Josh well, let me add one point to what andy just said, to which i completely agree with all of it, and theres one thing we took for granted very important in this circumstance, which is that we have two candidates who are prepared to live by the adjudicated results of the election. And this goes back to right at crucially, which its important in what could have been a severe National Crisis , because of the ambiguity in Election Results out of florida in 2000, could have been a big crisis, we had two candidates who told their staffs we will live by the legal outcome here. We will live by the results. And both candidates, before the Supreme Court ruled in mid december, both candidates made it clear to their entire teams that well fight this as hard as we can through legal means, but is out, itsing out, and whoever is declared the winner is the winner. Thats whats important. The mechanisms that weve been talking about are all extremely important, but the leadership comes from the top, and the two candidates need to go into this, what could be a delayed or ambiguous Election Results on election day, they need to go into it with an attitude of country first. Margaret well, some of the mechanics may be complicated by delays or abbreviated transitions. Can we pick up on that idea that josh just raised here yes, there are mechanics. Yes there are institutions here, a plan for a transition but some of what [indiscernible] that assumption that the rules will be played by and abided by. Are you concerned that will not happen this year . This is a highly unusual election year, margaret, by any standard with the pandemic and the way this campaign is taking place. And there clearly are concerns with how the voting process is going to be conducted. Countless news articles margaret, the hallmark of any working democracy is a peaceful transition of power after a free and Fair Election has been conducted. I mean, thats at the very core of our democracy since our Founding Fathers gave us the constitution gave us a republic if we could keep it. Theres no question the administration that had a handoff to the next administration did so, after the campaign, which is always famously contested, diplomatically. This year, perhaps this campaign, but had a real transition, a real spirit of cooperation. Most sacred responsibility, margaret, as you may know, for any commanderinchief is the safety and security of the American People. It is essential in transition that you have a peaceful transition, a smooth transition in some cases from one party to another. We all benefits from that in our transitions as chiefs of staff. I hope and pray we see that this year, as well. Margaret you all hope and you pray. What do you think happens on that constitutionally laid out date of january 20 . I hope first of all this is going to be a different election for sure. I dont think anyone has a perfect crystal ball. When you hear the chairman of the Federal Reserve using the word unknowable, that gives you some case of the uncertainty were living and working in. What you hope is there is a clear understanding and acceptance of the Election Results. And then from that, you start to move forward with the transition. Thats the real question. Margaret denis mcdonagh, you were supposed to be involved in then president elect obamas first intelligence briefing, and im told by david merchant and his team of researchers that the cia was under instructions to only brief president elect obama and no one else. Do you know what happened during that meeting, that briefing . I mean, it occurs to me in a year when we have so Many National security crises and issues confronting the next commanderinchief that the sharing of intelligence and a conversation like this is going to be of extreme heightened importance. Dennis yeah, thanks margaret. Thats not my recollection, so maybe i should talk to david. But i remember sitting with president obama on the morning he had his first briefing. In fact, i remember it because i had been in chicago for an extended stay and my wife and i had very young kids i hadnt seen in some time, and i came back home to see them at my wife and had hoped to be able to stay there but that was directed to turn around and go back to chicago to join the president for the brief. But youre absolutely correct that the sharing of intelligence is maybe one of the most concrete examples of the kind of sharing that needs to happen across the board. And to josh boltons good credit, in 2008 and 2009, that happened. And so my participation with the president on that pdb is an example of that, but its only one of several examples josh i tried toh set emulate that eight years later in december, november and december 2015 and january 2017. I want to go back to one second on your earlier question because i feel like were not giving you the answer that you want, which is, are we worried about transition . The short answer to that is yes. Each of us was in that job because were worriers. If youre not a worrier, you will not qualify for this job. I guess what i also want to communicate as clearly as i can is that there are, as you noted in my answer, institutions at work right now to ensure were ready for a variety of eventualities, and individuals will be making a decision in the context of the Election Results. No one has suggested that the results will be inaccurate. People have suggested the results will be perhaps delayed because of numerous vote by mail opportunities. So, if there were an effort to curtail the counting of peoples votes, yeah, i would be worried about that. But the current team has to understand that the first judgment on a great presidency will be whether you run through the dates and fulfill the job responsibility of being president , and one of them is a clean, effective handoff, particularly in a time of crisis. And i believe because of that, individuals will make the right decision. Let the votes be counted so that the American People have confidence the way they vote is counted and get counted accurately. And we will continue this 240 year peaceful transition. Margaret thank you for your clarity. That is a question the public is asking quite a lot these days, whether the date of the election, the date of the transition, whether some of what the president said publicly can , practically, actually, can be implemented. Thats why i asked it. Let me pick up on what you just mentioned. You were part of briefing the Trump Incoming team at the Trump Administration. They went through a few iterations, as we know. What did you do to prepare them and what effect did your attempts to do so have . Where do so have . Were the attempts well received . Dennis i did do hundreds of things, but so did hundreds if not thousands of other people. The wheels are turning right now with the federal service are substantial, and theyre preparing for either eventuality, and thats a big amount of work. So yeah, i did some things, but most importantly, the government did a lot of things. There were two big challenges in 2016. One is the wholesale change of the Transition Team after the election, which delayed the trumps team start of the transition. Which is, the transition itself is very short if you compare our transition period to other transitions around the world. So anything to curtail it even more is unfortunate. The other thing is that, that slow down slows down the building of their team, and not necessarily for my firsthand knowledge, although i have some of that, but from reporting by Michael Lewis and others that a lot of the material just was not consumed. Now, time will tell whether that is, you know, what the overall impact of that is. But the fact is that it was a delayed start. It does appear the prepared material was not consumed, even though it had been prepared. It looks to me like the biden team right now, as josh suggested a couple of minutes ago, is learning from that and is digging in all these questions, and i think that gives me great hope in the context of a very tumultuous period. Margaret josh bolton, why was it so important to president bush and your team to create the model that both you and dennis have talked about . Josh well, the most important thing is we were in the midst of two wars in iraq and afghanistan, and particularly at the time when we began to start thinking about the transition , it was a lot easier to do if you were a second term president that if you were a firstterm president. But there we were approaching the end of a second term in 2007. The situation in iraq and afghanistan was not particularly good. The country remained under physical threat and in early 2008, president bush called me into his office and he said this will be the first transition in modern history conducted when the nation is actually under threat, and i want it to be the best and most effective possible, regardless of who wins. It came from the top, and there were a lot of good people doing their jobs. It came from the top with the president setting the tone and saying were partisans. We want republicans to win, but the transition should come first. Thats especially true in the midst of a crisis. Margaret andy carr, were also looking at the possibility of the transition simply being from term one to term two. What do president s need to do in year four to be preparing for year five . Andy first of all, they have to acknowledge that there is a transition. Youre not just taking yesterday and repeating it. People sometimes feel they shouldnt be replaced so they want to hold on to the desk. First of all, president bush was also ready to have a very good transition should he have lost reelection, so he had told us to be prepared to transition to another president. So, he was, as josh said, he was just as focused then on the responsibilities of being a leader of our democracy as he was of being, yes, im the president , and he was prepared to pass the baton if he had to. I do remember meeting at camp david that thursday after the election and he called me into his office and said im going to make a number of changes in the staff, the cabinet, and i will make changes as you told me the cabinet agencies she wanted to change. And i said that was wonderful. You should probably start with your chief of staff because that was of no government there may be new people coming into your position. He said no, i need you to help me make those changes. I said youve got to talk to my wife. Im not sure that i can put up with it. He said ill go ask her right now. He jumped up and saw my wife and said kathleen, and he said he cant do this if you dont agree. He wanted me to help make changes and one of the most challenging aspect was it you do not get to hire people. You do good to tell people your services are no longer needed. And thats a tough thing to do , especially for cabinet members who feel the president won the election, therefore they should keep doing their job. Changing peoples part of a transition from team one to team one plus, and thats what you have to do. There was a transition even though the government was the same. President bush was the same president on january 19 and january 21, but you did have a new government at the executive branch to make his new policies and momentum what he wanted. He had a lot of things he wanted to finish and get done, so we focused on that. We had an honest transition, and it made a big difference. I thought that the second term started off very well considering we were in a war and we were dealing with unbelievable challenges. But he was able to get a lot done. Margaret what do you think needs to happen year four for a year five, and how do you continue to recruit the talent to come into an administration for a second term . A building on what andy had said, i think he outlined some of the tenants of a change to a second administration. Athink, so importantly, how campaign has gone before, reelected president clinton was the first democrat to be reelected since president roosevelt. It was critically important for the country to feel that the reelected president leader has a vision, a renewal moving forward and not just really resting on laurels or being stuck, so to speak, or slowed without firstterm. Its got to be a renewal, a new vision. As far as leadership people are concerned, i think theres a natural transition there. The chief of staff position i think each of president clintons chief of staff served in times that they were wellsuited for. I think the same goes for the cabinet. So, i think theres a Natural Renewal there of new people. Its got to be done in an orderly, smooth, thoughtful, purposeful manner. Margaret but how do you i guess josh and dennis can weigh in on this, too, the question of turnover, the question of being able to recruit good talent . Almost half of Senior Leaders depart in the First Six Months of a second term. What is the Practical Impact of that and how do you recruit good talent . Josh . Josh its hard. But andy did a good job. Its a challenge throughout a second term, but it has to be done. And for the transitioning administration, i agree with andy. The risk is not so much that you wont be able to find good people to replace people you had. The much bigger risk for a second Term Administration is that you wont realize that this is a good time to replace people and reset, and everything about an administration makes people feel like theyre in place and they deserve to be there, but they need to be reminded what andy carr reminded the bush staff of regularly that were not attendance of this place regularly. We need to keep and we need to be prepared to leave when the time is up and use every day you possibly can. By the way, margaret, it actually gets harder the recruitment side gets harder the later you go into a second term. I took over from andy in year six of the bush administration. And when it was time for a new treasury secretary [indiscernible] it turned out that may have been my biggest contribution to government. Margaret pretty key election in a key moment. Josh yeah, because we ended up in an economic crisis at the end of the administration, which hank paulson had a lot to do with the basically rescuing the world economy. And so i think of it less as a transition problem, but the ongoing problem of how do you keep the staff fresh, and how do you get the best people in government . By the way, no one ever assumed if you have only got a year or six months that nothing can be done. Margaret, you started out exactly right by saying expect the unexpected, especially now. Margaret weve had already tremendous turnover in the four years of the Trump Administration. Do you have concerns and what is your advice for a second term in recruiting top talent . Yeah, look, i think am i concerned . Absolutely, and that is the lifeblood of the administration is the people that youre able to bring in and that youre able then to work with federal service, which, as josh said, is so full of massive talent. So, talent is a principal challenge i think in that bridging from the end of a firstterm into a new second term. But i want to just underscore, and i believe this is among the really good pieces of advice i got from all former chiefs, including several pieces from josh. This was the best piece of advice he gave me when i took the job, which is you have to be very intentional about edit focused on this question of keeping talent but also being very clear about it when you need to move off existing talent into new talent. So youve got to be constantly looking for signs of fatigue and in your team, constantly taking care of your team, but then you also have to be constantly looking for new talent because youre going to need it. So, intentionality is really important. Let me say one thing here. How, you know,k how the congress and senate handles confirmation is an issue in this, both as it relates to how quickly you can get your team on a field and some of the kind of tomfoolery that comes along that delays that. And moreover, some of that tomfoolery reaches such a level that you end up losing an opportunity to get really good talent on the field because they re dissuaded. Heres my last point. The last and most important point is theres massive strength in diversity, and part of that diversity is mixing the new team, mixing the new team with the old team, but part of that diversity is making sure the country looks like america. You see that with the Biden Campaign. You see it with the Biden Campaign promises. He wants to build a team that reflects the full gender and racial diversity of the country, and i think that will have and i think each of the three chiefs on here similarly try to build their teams, so that has a great virtue all its own. How that team works well together, how it reflects the strength of the country, that has a self reinforcing impact over time. And so the fact that they are starting with such a pool of talent gives me hope. Margaret max, should we be more hopeful was it tomfoolery . [indiscernible] of actually getting people through and confirmed, the thousands of jobs that require confirmation, that that changes . Or are we at a point, as a country, where were so incredibly partisan that the sand is in the wheels and it will be complicated for whomever is elected . Max you raised the right question. It shows how much time has changed, margaret. I believe i have my facts correct. We had all of our candidates in place for the Clinton Administration the day after inaugural, save one, the attorney general. The Republican Senate cooperated with that confirmation process. Most of the tomfoolery was avoided. So, we had all of our candidates in place save one. And what is particularly relevant today, stuart gershon, a guy you may have a member, was the acting attorney general. And we could not have asked for better cooperation from stuart until we got our attorney general, janet reno, in place. Thats how it was then. Its very different now. Boy, did the American People ever want washington to work better . Hopefully that will prevail. Its harder, going back to your recruiting point. Its harder to recruit people to serve in government now than it was 1020 years ago. I dont think theres much doubt about that. [indiscernible] and i believe that he has had an effort to try and reduce the number of people that need to be senate confirmed, which would get rid of some of the tomfoolery that takes place on capitol hill. Margaret, one of the main complications out there is the fact having in person conversations is complicated these days. Not even talking about Holding Congressional hearings in person. What about on the practical side, with remote work, and this is a question for one of our audience members. It is likely to continue to 2021. What hurdle will it present for the president ial office when it comes to recruiting talent . Anyone want to take that . I am going to jump in. This is going to be a new challenge across the board. I think is just was suggesting, as long as you are intentional about finding me talent, being clear about the kind of candidate you are going to run, it is not hard to get people to stand up. The Senate Business kind of notwithstanding. This new remote work, i think that is going to be what we are going to be dealing with. And all the other things the American People are dealing with. One of the challenges of the zoom process is it is hard to build a culture of support from the workers. And the team members. When you are working at the white house, the offices are quite small. It is an intimate place to work. It is easy to have an impact on the way people work. It is going to be more difficult if we have to do everything remotely. Motivating people to feel as if they are part of the team is a challenge because of the distance elation ship. It is not just in government. Corporate america as well. I would add quickly the white house, the new administration, you have new people coming in. It is not like an existing organization where you know people, you work with people. When you have remote work, you have that bond of connectivity. The Trump Administration and the Biden Administration, if it comes to pass, people have worked together. I think this is such an important, challenging time. Hopefully it will call people to Public Service. I have a question on the National Security front. We may have the best health care system. Our commanderinchief is the most productive man in the world, and yet he is vulnerable. We have demonstrated we are vulnerable. Are you concerned on day one in a transition what that could mean in terms of immediate National Security threats for the current or incoming president . I am. It is not something to be panicked about, but it is definitely something to be worried about. It is what animated president bush in 2008. We have to have the best transition and history because the country is under threat. There is no greater moment of vulnerability than that day of the transfer of power. When the new team is coming in. Let me underscore something mac just alluded to. The white house, on january 17, 18th, is staffed with the incumbent staff. On the night of january 19, everyone is out. A new team walks in. They are not necessarily, everybody is not necessarily going to be able to walk into their office. Even if everybody could be there in person, pretty much every person is new to their job. That is why the transition is so important at a moment of real National Security full their ability. What they tried to do, and what we tried to do in a primitive way in 2008, is bring in the new folks. Pair them up with their counterparts, especially in the National Security side. Do a couple of exercises so people would know how to react if one of our adversaries seized in this moment and tried to launch some sort of attack. Didnt the Obama Administration do that . Wasnt one thing pandemic preparedness . I give credit to susan rice. The Homeland Security and National Security advisers. The exercise we went through with the incoming team and the Outgoing Team was precisely that. There is so much all of you have, institutional knowledge, such a great opportunity to get an answer to these questions. I have plenty more questions. Our time is up here. I want to hand it back to the partnership. Melanie barnes, i believe, is standing by. Saying, President Trump remains in good spirits, has mild symptoms, and has been working throughout the day. At the recommendation of his physician and medical experts, the president will be working from the president ial offices at walter reed for the next few days. President trump appreciates the outpouring of support for he and the first lady. I want to thank everybody for the tremendous support. On going to walter reed hospital. I think im doing very well. We are going to make sure that things work out. The first lady is doing very well. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I will never forget it. Thank you. A look at the president departing the white house from the waltercal reed medical center