Host joining us now is bob woodward, author of the new book rage and Washington Post associate editor. Mr. Woodward i want to begin the , headline in your newspaper, trump will not commit to peaceful transition. Give us your insight after writing two books about the president on his comments. Guest it makes no sense for anybody, even him, but of course he thinks he can bully his way , through on this. The information i have, it is going to be just a train wreck upon a train wreck at election or after election time. How do you count the votes . How do you make sure there is a fair and square election . We are heading into another chapter, chapter 73, of trump world, and we are just going to have to watch it day by day, hourbyhour. Host you spoke with the president , i believe 19 times for this book. How did it come about, and how did he agree to talk with you . Guest i did a book in 2018 on his first two years, and he did not cooperate. I tried to talk to him. He regretted it. He, of course denounced the , book, said i was a democratic operative. Some people close to him said , oh by the way the book is true and so the president , when i , wanted to do the second book, said he would cooperate. I went into the oval office, put my tape recorder down on the resolute desk, and said, it is all on the record. I am going to record it all. The book will come out in september or october, before the election. And so i talked to him for nine , hours and 41 minutes. He would call me at home at 10 00 or on weekends i could call. I had a number where i could contact him. I guess it is what i would call a total universe portrait of his thinking about his job, the central issue of the virus, race relations, the economy, the supreme court. We were able to go down every avenue of america. It is really a look at him. He allowed me to push him and come back to questions. I suspect he is not very happy now, but that is what he said and what i was able to find out from my other reporting. Host what role did senator Lindsey Graham have in the president speaking to you . Guest apparently he told the president , look, he will not put words in your mouth. You will get a straight shot. Last week, the president said, i said some great things in those interviews that are not in the book. I let him have his say entirely. It is as close, i believe having , done this now for 50 years, that you can ever come to, as an outsider, what was really going on in the white house and administration on every matter of importance. Host this is your 20th book, mr. Woodward. How do you know when former officials are ready to talk . Guest you just keep the old way used to be go to their homes and knock on the door at night. With the virus, you cannot do it, so you use the telephone as your entree. People are home at night and you can get them on the phone sometimes. Sometimes for extended periods of time sometimes for very long , interviews. Central lesson for me is people like to talk. Thank god. I think that people are out there, no matter what their politics, they are secret sharers and believers in the first amendment. Host we want to invite our viewers to join in on the conversation. If youre supporting joe biden and senator harris, dial in at 202 7488000. If youre supporting President Trump and Vice President pence, 202 7488001. If you are undecided or support others, 202 7488002. Mr. Woodward, you write in the book in your authors note that evelyn duffy insisted everyone in the book including President Trump. She worked tirelessly to see it fulfilled. Steve riley insists on verification for everything. No fact or nuance goes unchecked. Tell us about the process. Guest they are my two assistants. They were willing to come to my house and work in their offices on my third floor. I have an office on that floor. Has an officealsh in the tower. We were a team, working together together working together wearing masks, being as careful , as we could exchanging drafts, doing transcripts of all the interviews with trump and with everyone else. Elsa, we did not have to wear a mask with each other and we lived our lives but we lived in that bubble of trump world for 10 weeks for both elsa and extraordinary time because we could get not only to trump but we could get to other people in the white house, cabinet officers, people close to the president. Host sophia is first in the bronx, supporting the former Vice President. Go ahead. Caller thank you, mr. Woodward. Are you there . Guest yes, i am. Caller ok. First, i want to say this. 50 years, the job you done. This one, you must get a nobel prize because, if you did not record him, he would have denied. Sir i voted for him. , i am one of the deplorables. I see now, the last three weeks, all the people, my people he does not feel anything for them. He does not feel anything for us even though he admitted in your interview, sir that this is , going to be bad. You understand, sir . I thank you. I hope you get the nobel prize because somebody has to make it clear that you are brilliant. If you do not record him, he would have denied. It would have been chaos. Thank you. I hope you talk about the rally. He is going to kill us. He is going to kill us, sir. I supported him. I am the deplorable. Host mr. Woodward. Guest first, i recorded him with his permission. Frankly, when the book came out, i was not sure i would put out the audios. My wife, elsa walsh, said you need to put out audio. I have done that a couple times on books, but only in a small way. They said no. It was kind of the Pincer Movement between elsa and jamie to say you have to do this. The context was we know people do not trust the media. People do not trust much. And so being able to hear it , with their own ears, here President Trump say these things, say to me that he is trying to downplay the virus, he does not want to cause a panic, the key to all of this is i start my book with this meeting on january 28 in the oval office, when the National Security team, advisor Robert Obrien told President Trump about the virus, said this virus is going to be the biggest not maybe will be, is going to be the biggest National Security threat to your presidency. His deputy worked in china as a wall street journal reporter , knew the 2003 pandemic that the Chinese Government lied all the time. He had sources in china, and he was able to explain to President Trump not that just trouble was coming but a major pandemic was coming because he had those contacts, those sources in china in the medical community who would stand up to the Chinese Communist party and Chinese Government and he said this is going to be like the 1918 spanish flu pandemic that killed 675,000 people in this country. Host carol, michigan, supporting the president. Caller good morning. I am curious, mr. Woodward. Do you like the president as a person . Do you think you would ever host go ahead. Caller allow you to do what you did . The president said going in, the president said go ahead turn the machine on. Do you think you would ever get , a democrat to do that . Guest yes. I have. Many, many times president obama, president clinton. It is a nonpartisan tape recorder, if i may say that. Ma. My approach is aggressively nonpartisan. You asked a very good question at the beginning. Do i like the president . He has, as you know, he can be very charming. He would let me push him. We would sometimes even joke about things, but he knew and i knew this is not a joking matter. Everything, particularly the virus. He has an appeal. In one says she listened some of these calls because i would put it on a speakerphone. I told President Trump that. There were some foul language and at one point president at onp wife to dont want your hear. Ears washer pretty the term. We started these interviews before the virus. We talked a great deal about his relationship with his career and kim jongun and the north Korean Leader. I got the letters, the Letter Exchange between them. President trump told me, he said theree not had a war, and was an expectation that maybe we were going to have a nuclear war with north korea. I think, and i indeed give him credit on this, not having a war. After i got1960s out of college, i served five years in the u. S. Navy as a communications officer. This was during vietnam. I saw vietnam up close. The lives of vietnam, and the horror of that war. I give President Trump credit for avoiding a war with north korea. At the same time, relations between kim jongun have broken down now. We dont know where its going. Lots of experts say they dont think trump handled it right. I am agnostic on that. I say this is what he did. He is very emphatic with me in these interviews that it was a no war strategy. All of the over trump administration, we have not had any war. A lot of people expected we would have one. At the same time, the relations with some countries trump likes, autocratic leaders he talked to me about that quite openly. He has picked leaders like putin to have a Good Relationship with the crown prince of saudi arabia, and his negotiation with kim jongun. Anyway, the positives and negatives are laid out as best i could. Host you write about these letters between the north Korean Leader and the president , which he calls love letters. You say the cia never figured out conclusively who wrote and crafted kims letters to trump. They were masterpieces. Finding the exact mixture of flattery while appealing to trumps sense of grandiosity and being center stage in history. Guest the letters are magnificent. From kim jongil he reaches out for trump. Jongun, heim reaches out for trump. He says we know each other, we trust each other, we will be friends for each other. He says i remember meeting with you, holding your excellencys hand. They pledged fealty to each other. As i said in the book, it is almost like the knights of the round table. At the same time, when kim jongun would not deliver on his agreement to get rid of his nuclear weapons, trump pushed him and said you gave your word on this. To make at ready deal. The second meeting, in how annoyed, vietnam in hanoi, vietnam, fell apart. We dont know where this is going. It is a dicey situation. Jongunort, kim has several dozens of nuclear weapons. They are probably not big busters, like some of the some of the weapons we have on our Ballistic Missile submarines, but they are nuclear weapons. They are well concealed and well hidden. It is a very real threat that we face from them. Determine,going to ase as caller wrote george w. Bushs political advisor once told me for one of my bush books i went to see him in the white house and he said we are talking about the iraq war, and the afghan war, and other issues, and he said, look, everything depends on outcomes and politics. True. K thats the outcome of the relationship with north korea, we dont know where it will end. Int lets go to carl oxford, massachusetts, and decided this election. Caller thank you for cspan. Mr. Woodward, ive seen you on many times on television and interviews. I read one of your books a long time ago. I forget the title. I am sorry to say i lost a lot of respect for you after the iraq war started. Right after it started many people realized it was based on a lie, and you came out a couple of years later with the book on that. I think you were on msnbc, if i remember correctly. To me, you were a johnnycomelately. Correct me if im wrong, but thats how i feel. Look, i wrote a story for the Washington Post before the iraq war started. A cia official saying they do not have smoking gun intelligence that iraq has weapons of mass distraction. Mass destruction. The government and the cia believed they did, but this official told me we dont have smoking gun intelligence. Myself mightily for not understanding what i wrote in my own newspaper. When somebody says we dont have smoking gun intelligence, that means they dont have a verifiable information. They are not sure. Quite frankly, i should have realized what i wrote. I wrote a number of books about the iraq war. The third one was called state of denial, in which i reported with documentation in all kinds of interviews that president bush, george w. Bush at the time, was not telling the truth to the American People about how bad the situation was in iraq. It had deteriorated in the years after the 2003 invasion. Host christopher go ahead, finish up. Guest no, i was just going to say the iraq war was really an important turning point. Ive always said i should have been more aggressive about it, but i did report what happened ernally, significantly internally. Significantly, they cia director went to make a presentation to president bush about whether there are weapons of mass bushuction, and president doubted that the intelligence was that solid. Tenet stood in the oval office and said its a slamdunk, mr. President. Its a slamdunk. That was the view at the highest level in the cia, as you may recall. Colin powell, then secretary of state, gave that famous speech at the United Nations in which he held up a little bottle and said this contains a chemical weapon. This is what iraq has. It is his since said most embarrassing moment, his worst moment in his tenure not only as a military officer, but i secretary of state. State. As secretary of i should have been more aggressive. Quite frankly, in that story, i should have understood when you dont have smoking gun intelligence, you are not sure, and you will go to war on that basis anyway. Host christopher in oklahoma. Supporting the bidenharris ticket. Caller good morning to you both. Massive respect for the washington journal in and of itself for us to be able to do this. The last thing i thought i would be doing this morning is asking bob woodward a question. Over has been we know 200,000 deaths from covid19. Personally, do you feel any responsibility for publicly withholding the information that donald trump initially disclosed to you early on about the virus . After it got time for your book to come out, but also in the initial periods when he was telling you one thing and turning right around a week or two later on tv and telling all of us the exact opposite . Guest it is a fair question. On february 7d me that he knew the virus was and that it could be transmitted from somebody who symptoms, and that it was deadly, in fact more deadly than the flu, we were talking about china. He had just the evening before had a talk with president xi. I brought a stack of newspaper clippings from my newspaper, the Washington Post, and the New York Times. All through the peirod of january period of january and february they were talking about china. I thought trump was talking about china. It was not until may that i learned trump had been briefed, and the centerpiece of this is january 28 when trump was told by his National Security advisor , as robertrus obrien put it to the president , is goingbe not to be the biggest National Security threat to your presidency. I did not know about that meeting until may. Whats interesting about , obviously reporters we live our lives in chronological order, but you dont report in chronological order. If i had known what i learned in may, i obviously would have gone and published a story. But i didnt know where that was coming from in the context of my discussion with President Trump as china. When i learned he is talking presented on was january 28, and i learned that by asking in may President Trump, do you remember that january 28 meeting . President trump said, no, he didnt. Then he said twice, im sure it was said. Im sure it was said that he got obrien. Ing from even by march, the virus was out of control. Everyone knew it was deadly. My god, in march, all of a sudden it just came to this country in a way exactly at the president was told. It came to this country. There were 30,000 new cases a day. I was traveling around in early march, going to california and florida. I had no idea. , the leading Infectious Disease official in this country, wellknown on , was saying on theres 29, go ahead, no worry. Go to the mall, go to the gym. There was no way for me i had no information that thats what trump was talking about. When you walk the cat back, and after i learned in may and i realized and i asked the president , was that where you got that information, and he said yes, he knows it was said by obrien. It sounds like a convoluted explanation, but thats exactly what happens. Work at the Washington Post as an associate editor. I have access to the editor, to walk into his office, call him or email him, and say i have information that needs to go into the paper. Over the decades ive done that dozens and dozens of times. I wouldve done it in this case, but i didnt understand what trump was talking about. If you go back and you look at these clips, every one of them in january and february is about china. Point it was ane frontpage story in the New York Times saying china because of the virus locked down wuhan, where it started, but other cities were locked down. When the Chinese Government locks down you go to your apartment and you are locked in it. People, twice the population of the United States. All the discussion come all the focus was on china will stop including by me. China. On including by me. Trump had participated in that critical january 28 meeting. Thats the day the Trump Presidency should have changed. He should have realized what was coming. Actually, he did. When he gave his state of the Union Address a couple of days this is to the congress about what is going on in the world as he sees it, whats important, whats the future going to be like 40 Million People watched that speech. He devoted 15 seconds to the virus, saying we are doing everything we can. He was not doing everything he could. He couldve told the country the truth about what he had learned on january 28. He could have protected the people. Sheouldve fulfilled that could have fulfilled his duty as president. Hise could have fulfilled duty as president. Unfortunately, he didnt. We have 200,000 deaths from that virus in this country. A year ago if we were talking and i said we will have a pandemic that will kill 200,000 people you would think i was on some drug of some sort, but thats exactly what has happened. He could have mitigated that. He could have used his knowledge as he told me, and we have always likeaudio, i to play it down, i like to play it down because he didnt want to create a panic. The sad element in all of this is that president did not understand the people he leads. The people in this country, democrats, republicans, independents, undecided people who dont vote, have one thing in common. When they are told the truth they rally around, they step up, they do whats necessary to deal with the problem. Americans dont panic. Maybe some people will, but by and large, and if i may bore you a little bit with history, because history can tell us a lot in this case. Would go through all of the information we were getting from trump and other people as i was writing this book and she was editing it six times. We sat at dinner one night and trump hadwhat should done . Whats the remedy . History, andto Franklin Roosevelts famous fireside chats after one crisis or another. Go back and listen. It will bring tears to your eyes if you listen to roosevelt talking two days after pearl harbor. After the japanese sneak attack on pearl harbor. Two days later president in thist comes on fireside chat and says, its all bad news. The most serious undertaking of our American History is before us. The very survival of our country in the world is at stake. It is going to be for every american citizen ruling work, day, night, every hour, every minute. Then he said government, our government, his government has confidence in your ability to hear the worst without losing heart. President trump, instead, approached this and said i better not tell the truth. I better play it down, because people might panic. Thisw one thing from doing for 50 years. People in this country dont panic. People in this country are strong. Sorry to go so long, but its relevant. Host carolyn in georgia supporting the president. Caller good morning. President trump has done a very good job, and we can make a list of all the good things hes done. I know we have a lot of books coming out, and President Trump trust a lot of his back stabbers with information coming out. Just one minute to finish up. Biden seems to have a poor sense of wellbeing. I just want to know is after two years, and maybe this is something we need to know after two years will harris become our first woman president . The last question i have is for cspan. The plague always killed people, which we hate, but cspan, it would be good if they could have something on the death rate in this country. My understanding from reading is we lose about 7000 people daily. They just die daily. Host understood. Can you briefly talk about the president s handling of the coronavirus . You also talked to him about the impeachment proceedings. At one point you are questioning him about whether or not he should apologize. In the world is the person he trusts the most . Explain his answer. Guest i did. This was in the context, this was done at maralago before the virus became an issue. I think it was december 30 of last year. Mp, his impeachment trial in the senate was going on, so i was able to ask him about this. Its very clear from the transcript of his discussion with ukrainian president that trump was asking the ukrainian president to talk to attorney bidens,barr about the and what the bidens were doing in ukraine. I kept pressing the president. I said, do you think its a good policy for the president of the United States to be able or to ask foreign leaders to investigate political opponents . The president kept insisting that it was all about corruption. I said, heres the transcript. You released your own words. Was pretty contentious, because i kept going back to what was in the transcript he released. I said you gave, like Richard Nixon when he taperecorded his secret conversations, you gave the opposition a sword. Trump did not believe this. We started talking more about nixon. Nixon a few its months after watergate came out said this is illegal. People did things. Im responsible. I apologize to the country. I apologize to the Democratic National committee, where they had the offices that the burglars broke into. Just kind of waited out just kind of laid it out in a soulful way. That soulful, but if he had apologized and hadp agreed if nixon apologized watergate would have gone away. I said on this if you apologized and he said, i would never apologize. I didnt do anything wrong. We went back to, is this a good policy . Ivanka, youryo daughter, and walk on this beautiful property, maralago, and have a father daughter talk and ask her if she would recommend that you apologize. He said i wouldnt do that, it wouldnt make any difference what she said. I think it wasnt going to make any difference what anyone said. This is part of the problem with trump as president. He gets things in his head, and he will not get them out. He will not listen to others. They have no process. In extensivegh detail in the book his national matus, theams, ki defense secretary, dan coats the director of national intelligence, that they cant get through to him. He wont listen. Its tragic. Its particularly tragic in the context of the virus and the 200,000 people in this country who died. By telling the truth the president could have averted some of those stats. Norman in amherst, massachusetts. The house is gaveling in at 9 00, so i need a quick question. Caller i was in Journalism School in the midtolate 70s. Im worried about the future of freedom in the press as in the Julian Assange case. What do you think would happen under trump, and would it be different under biden . Guest i am always worried about freedom of the press. , trumpite in the book always accuses the press of being fake news. And attacks them. The marshals or the fbi agents to break into reporters homes or arrest them. My conclusion is this is on a happy note. Democracy has held. We still have a democracy in this country. Trump often threatens it as something to worry about deeply, but the problem is, and weve had a leadership failure. There is a breakdown in the leadership of this country. Levels, aso many practical level, a moral level, a president has so much authority. Jim mattis says that trump does not have a moral compass. And has aent needs responsibility to the citizens of this country. Unfortunately, on so many levels, he has let us down. Host will you write another book . Guest well, i am 77 years old. I dont know. You have to see. Wasally didnt think that i going to write a second trump book after doing the first one. No plan. Now, i will take a little time off with my wife, and we are going. O enjoy some other things during the 10 months of working on the trump book, and she editing it six times and so forth, i remember one night she said because we talk about these things so much and reliving them the phone would ring at 10 00 and it would be trump calling unexpectedly. I needber her saying, one hour away from trump and trumpworld. Host everyday we are taking your calls live on the air on the news of the day. We will discuss policy issues that impact you. Friday morning, we will discuss michigan, a key battleground state in november. Watch live 7 00 eastern friday morning. Join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages, and tweets. Watch on sunday morning as we look back 60 years on the firstever televised president ial debate between john f. Kennedy and Richard Nixon
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