Transcripts For CSPAN House Oversight Subcommittee Hearing On The U.S. Postal Service 20240712

Person. You will only see members and witnesses appearing remotely on the monitor in front of you. When they are speaking in what is known in webex as active speaker view. A timer is visible in the room directly in front of. For members appearing remotely i know youre familiar with webex by now let me remind you of a few points. First, you will be able to see each person speaking during the hearing, whether they are in person or remote. If you have your webex set to active speaker view. If you have any questions can about this pleas, Contact Committee staff. Secondly, we have a timer that should be visible on the screen when you are in active speaker with thumbnail view. Members who wish to pin the timetory their screens Contact Committee staff for assistance. Third, im not even sure what that means, but i said it. Third, the house rules require that we see you so please always have your cameras turned on if you want to be an active participant in this hearing. Fourth, members are appearing remotely who are not recognized should remain muted so we minimize background noise and feedback. Fifth, ill recognize members verbally. Members can retain the right to seek recognition verbally in regular order. Members will be recognized in order of is enority seniority for questions. Lastly, if you want to be recognized out of regular order, you may identify that inself ways, use the chat function, preferably, to send a request. You may send an email to the majority staff, or you may unmute your mike to seek recognition with me. Obviously we dont want people talking over each other, my preference is use the chat function or email to facilitate formal verbal recognition. Committee staff will make me aware of the request and ill recognize you. Well begin the hearing in just a moment when they tell me we are ready to again started. Committee will be in order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a re70s committee at any time. The chair would also ask without objection that miss deb bye Wasserman Schultz debi Wasserman Schultz, ms. Scanlon, who else . Mr. Cooper. Sorry i got it right here. Yes, mr. Cooper, mrs. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and miss representative mary gay scanlon be waived on to the committee for their participation in todays hearings. Without objection, so ordered. I want to welcome everyone to our hearing on recent developments regarding the Postal Service. I now recognize myself for an Opening Statement. Then i will recognize the Ranking Member, for his Opening Statement. Is hice, i have agreed the chairwoman on . Does the chairwoman wish to have an Opening Statement . Because ill recognize her with your permission, mr. Hice, after myself. Our colleague, mrs. Lawrence, given her long involvement in this issue, is also going to issue have an Opening Statement. Ill recognize, and if somebody on your side wants to have additional that would be fine. Let me know. The Postal Service is the crown jewel of our federal government. It serves every household and business every day. It employs 630,000 brave individuals who live in every single congressional district. According to pew research, 91 of americans have a favorable view of the Postal Service. Leaps and bounds above that of any other federal entity. During the coronavirus pandemic, the Postal Services value to this nation is greater than ever. The Postal Service is a formal component of our Nations National response framework, serving as a linchpin of our nations response to the pandemic. A june 2020 harris poll found that the Postal Service ranked as the single most essential company to americans during the pandemic. Because its a constant in our lives. It outranks companies that manufacture p. P. E. And sanitizers in that respect. Starreding now and going through november, the Postal Service will also play a critical unprecedented in the sense of expanded role in our democracy. Protecting the health of voters who cast their ballots by mail. We know postal workers can handle the volume of that election mail. The question is whether those at the helm are taking steps to hinder that capacity and slow it down in ways that hurt the prospects of a Fair Election but benefit one candidates reelection campaign. Its essential that Postal Service leadership demonstrate nonpartisanship and not cronyism or favoritism. Leaving the Postal Service serving everyone in our country, particularly during this pandemic, is a responsibility to bestow upon only the most qualified and honorable of leaders. Its a job for those who are ready and willing to listen to the millions of stakeholders, mail recipients, voters, unions, veterans, older americans, congress, and so many others to connect the United States as Benjamin Franklin foresaw. And serve as the thread that unites our societys many fabrics. Unfortunately, thats not what is happening. Instead, we have a board of governors who insert add political ally of the president into the search process at the 11th hour. Circumventing proper vetting and background checks. We have a crony at the helm of our nations Postal Service, a man ripe with conflicts of interest and potential violations of law even. We have a postmaster general who would benefit financially if the Postal Service contracts out its services and sprints toward prifings prifings. He would benefit financially if ballots are undelivered or delayed. That would be unacceptable under any circumstance. Its a catastrophic during a Global Pandemic. On the precipice of one of the most consequential National Elections in our lifetimes. This hearing seeks to provide the public with an update on what we know about the background and qualifications of the postmaster general selected by the board of governors. In fact, one might say this is the homework that board of governors should have done but failed to do. Using publicly available resources will piece together the troubling past of mr. Dejoy. Well example his actions related to Campaign Donations while he was at the helm of new breed logistics. Well explore his continued investments in companies that benefit from contracts with the Postal Service. Companies that would also benefit if the usps pursued the president s plan for privatization. We will discuss why these actions and those connections matter. And why they should have rendered him, in my view, ineligible for consideration for this position. Mr. Dejoys first day of work was june 15. Today marks the start of his 13th week of federal service. Yet, his record is characterized by tumultuous, controversial, plummeting service, betrayal of customers in dire need of lifesaving medicines and supplies. But the trucks are on time albeit with the mail often left behind. So there is that. We learned at our last hearing that mr. Dejoy has known for weeks that his socalled operational changes that just so happen to coincide with the election starting slowed down the mail by 10 . Thats according to their own inside sources as the chair woman of this committee made public at the last hearing. For two weeks he withheld from congress and the public the data and analysis that demonstrated how his leadership undermined the actual mission of the Postal Service to deliver the mail. Days later, details of mr. Dejoys personal lack of ethics have come to light. He reportedly forged his own brothers signature to take greater control of his familys company. Mr. Dejoy reportedly and potentially illegally used the Family Company as a personal Political Action committee. Coercing his staff, reportedly, to donate to preferred rubble candidates and then reimbursing those employees with bonuses and salary. If true, dejoys actions should have been of great concern to the board of governors and could be prosecuted for criminal activity. We are not done. Over the weekend the postmaster general sent every home in america a mailer instructing all who seek to vote by mail to request a mailin ballot, sending misinformation and confusing voters in nine states that automatically send out such ballots. This debacle could have been avoided if mr. Dejoy simply accepted the offers of state Election Officials to proofread that message before he sent it out. And today we see reports emerging that where mr. Dejoy was the c. E. O. Of new breed logistics and contracting with the Postal Service, his company may have received as much as 53 million in overpayments for services rendered. The dossier released today by ms. Lisa graves, one of our witnesses, shows that mr. Dejoy continues to hold investments, assets, or other interest in entities that been fit when the Postal Service contracts out its operations. Moreover, mr. Dejoy improperly mixes his personal and financial friendships with his nonpartisan position ostensibly at p. M. G. What should scare every american who believes that the Postal Service should not be the arm of any campaign is that mr. Dejoy in his official capacity continues to conceal his secret coordination with trump and associates about which he has already provided misleading information and testimony before the congress. The chairwoman and i have repeatedly asked the postmaster general antiboard of governors for information that would justify the sweeping operational changes, clarify what mr. Dejoys investments are, ensure transparency of operations, and restore trust in the Postal Service. They have not given the committee the documents we have requested. And require. On september 2, chairwoman maloney issued a subpoena compelling mr. Dejoy to produce a wide range of documents, including those previously requested and a list of contacts , all contacts with Trump Campaign affiliates and individuals. Today is the deadline for the board of governors to provide the committee documents and information to shed light on the way mr. Dejoy was selected for this position. While the board of governors might be, quote, tickled pink, unquote, with mr. Dejoys performance, the American People are not. Perhaps they need to be reminded that their job is to serve the country not any particular president. I look forward to hearing from our expert Witnesses Today and continuing this critical discussion and the committees ongoing investigation. With that, i recognize my friend, the distinguished Ranking Member for his opening remarks. Mr. Hice thank you, mr. Chairman. The mere notion that this hearing is a postal update is utter nonsense. By the chairmans own admission, just moments ago, the issues that will be discussed in the hearing today shows this hearing for what it is, an absolute farce. In fact, not a single one of the witnesses who are here were sess we are supposed to be having a postal update. Not a single one of the witnesses even worked for the usps. Currently. The fact is in relation to the Postal Service update, because of better than expected revenue during this pandemic, because of packages, the Postal Service has reported it has enough money to be totally solvent through at least august of next year, 11 months from now. 11 months. There is no immediate need for a 25 billion bailout. However, as g. A. O. Reported in may and as we have all known now current es, the usps Business Model is not financially sustainable because of such things as declining mail volumes, increased compensation costs, and rising unfunded liabilities. 25 billion bailout money cannot fix these type of problems. All it does is push the problems down the road a little bit further for us to have to deal with it later. We have 11 months as of right now, 11 months to come together to work in a bipartisan fashion to bring real reforms to the Postal Service just like, mr. Chairman, did you with my predecessor, mark meadows. But instead of having a serious discussion about proposals for a postal reform bill, we are using this valuable time to devil into conspiracy theyre delve into conspiracy theories about the koch family and mr. Dejoys financial interests. Assembling a group of people like we are doing here today regardless of their experience to speculate with no more facts or information than what is printed in the Washington Post is absolutely a waste of time. This is n. My opinion, as close to a Kangaroo Court as anything i have seen. Given the reckless apathy towards facts and truth as the democrats have exhibited throughout this entire affair, its clear that this socalled hearing is nothing more than a further attempt at political assassination. What we do know at this point is that the usps Ethics Office cleared mr. Dejoy to retain certain assets. And to the best of anyones knowledge here, he has complied with the conditions around that ruling. For his part, postmaster general has confirmed at our full Committee Hearing that the o. I. G. Is currently conducting an investigation, and he said he welcomed the results of that report. Furthermore, the president himself has said that he is opened to a Campaign Finance investigation of the postmaster general and said if he did something wrong, if it can be proven if there is evidence of wrongdoing, then he should lose his job. And despite all of the cooperation between those two, the democrats try to paint them as partners. It sounds like at least the two of them, the postmaster and the current administration, are willing to at least collect the facts and evidence before rushing to judgment. Something certainly that this committee so far has not done. Just for example, when the entire house was forced to vote on a postal bailout bill before we even had a hearing, before we even had the opportunity to question the postmaster general and analyze data on what was causing the reported slowdowns. Or when the democrats claim that the removal of collection boxes and sending letters to states about their election deadlines was somehow an assault on the Postal Service and democracy without even admitting the fact that these are the same actions that postmaster generals in the past have done. Same actions that they have taken time and again. Today we are having a hearing two days before the Postal Service is due to start producing documents from the democrat subpoena. Which asks for documents regarding the postmaster generals divestments, recusals, and communication was the Ethics Office. Let me just add this. In the documents that have already been received from the Postal Service, there is evidence of the democrats disingenuous narrative about the usps. The documents show in black and white evidence countering two of the democrats favorite topics on this issue, the postal boxes and mail sorting machines. Interestingly more of these were removed just prior to the 2016 election than have been removed this year. Yet strangely i dont recall any talk about it then. So as a result the hearing today will not be based on fact, it will be based on conjecture and supposition in the hopes of one day that we will resume genuine postal reform. Ive invited mr. Mike plunkett, the association for postal commerce, or postcom a. National association of businesses and organization that is rely on the use of mail for communications and commerce. I certainly look forward to hearing from him as well as our other witnesses who are here with us today. And hopefully well be able to move forward with genuine efforts for postal reform rather than these type of hearings that are nothing more than a Kangaroo Court to score political points. With that i yield back. Chair connolly i thank the gentleman. I would simply note for the record what was characterized as character assassination was actually an indepth investigation done by the Washington Post. An independent Media Outlets confirm the filedings of the Washington Post investigation that members of new breed staff where mr. Dejoy was the c. E. O. Were pressured to make straw donations, to make donations which could be construed and straw donations. Mr. Hice i appreciate that. But this hearing is about post update not about potential investigations or the kangaroocourt type investigation we are having here today. Chair connolly we appreciate the gentlemans point. But leadership of the Postal Service is directly related to issues about performance of the Postal Service. Thats what leadership is about. Before i call on mrs. Lawrence and then mr. Keller, for Opening Statements, i recognize the chairwoman of the full committee for any comments she may wish to ake. Mrs. Maloney good morning, i would like to thank you, chairman connolly, for holding this important hearing. And being such a Strong Partner in our investigation to hold a Postal Service and its leadership accountable to the American People. I would like to welcome our witnesses. We look forward to learning from you and working with you to ensure that the Public Interest is protected and i thank you for being here. Ever since the board of governors announced the selection of mr. Dejoy as postmaster general, questions have been raised about the process for selecting him. And possible conflicts of interest. Given his many financial interests in Postal Service contractors. During hur full Committee Hearing on august our full Committee Hearing on august 24, 2020, multiple Committee Members questioned mr. Dejoy and Board Chairman duncan about his Selection Process and whether it was influenced by the fact that both mr. Dejoy and mr. Duncan are longtime megadonors for the Republican Party. When directly asked by congressman cooper whether mr. Dejoy had ever paid back any of his executives for contributing to republican campaigns by providing bonuses or rewarding them, mr. Dejoy responded in no Uncertain Terms and strongly, and i quote, thats an outrageous claim, sir. And i resent it. End quote. Yet less than two weeks later a headline appeared in the Washington Post which stated, and i quote, lewis dejoys rise as g. O. P. Fundraiser was powered by contributions from Company Workers who were later reimbursed, former employees say, end quote. If true, these allegations are not only incredibly unethical, they are illegal. And to compound these possible crimes, mr. Dejoy would have lied to congress as well. The United States Postal Service is one of our nations most trusted institutions. It dates back to the very founding of our country. As mentioned in our constitution , and consistently receives the highest rating of federal agencies from the public. Every day it provides millions of people with access to critical mail, medications, and especially in this unique election, mailin ballots. But how long can we expect the faith of the American People to ast if the Postal Service is tainted by partisan leadership and alleged criminal activity . These are just a few of the reasons why i have introduced the nonpartisan postmaster general act, which will prevent Postal Service leadership from participating in any political activity and will prevent anyone who has held a political position in the last four years from being hired as postmaster general or deputy postmaster general. This is critical, time sensitive legislation that the full committee will consider this week. Again, i thank chairman connolly for holding this important hearing. And the witnesses for being here today. And i look forward from hearing from all of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle on this vital issue. I yield back the balance of my time. Chair connolly i thank the chairwoman. I also chiang her for her leadership i also thank her for her leadership. After she was elected chairwoman, she and i had a conversation minutes after the election on the floor of the house antivery first thing the chairwoman brought to my attention was postal reform. Comprehensive postal lee form reform. Obviously thats been a priority you said since you became chairwoman of this committee. I appreciate it and thank you, mrs. Maloney. Mrs. Maloney i look forward to working with you on this. My colleagues, mr. Comer and others. Thank you. Chair connolly im going to now call on congresswoman Brenda Lawrence for an Opening Statement. And then mr. Keller, you will also be called on for an Opening Statement. Then we will hear from our witnesses. Mrs. Lawrence, welcome. Miss lauren thank you. I want to mrs. Lawrence thank you. I want to thank chairman connolly for holding this important hearing. Prior to serving in coining want the record to reflect i spent 30 years, almost 30 years is the United States Postal Service. During that time i worked alongside some of the nations most dedicated public servants. Individuals who work long hours to ensure that the American People across this country receive their mail in a timely manner. The Postal Service existence is a critical government service, it began in 1775. Throughout history whether it was world wars or Global Pandemics, the Postal Service rose to the challenge and continued to deliver mail across this country and throughout the world. During the civil war, the Postal Service did not cease their operations. Uring the 1918 flu outbreak, which is the same as a pandemic, covid19 as we are going through, the Postal Service never stopped continuing to move the mail. Even while people were dying within the service. And to this day, the Postal Services ability to deliver our mail to our nations Heroic Service members serving at home and even abroad in a war zone provides a vital link to their families and to the friends back home. Never before have i seen a postmaster general undermine the Postal Service ability to do its work by undertaking the kind of drastic and ill formed operation changes that our current postmaster general, mr. Dejoy, has instituted in recent months. In a hearing before this very Committee Last month, the postmaster general confessed he didnt know the Postal Service stated mission, and that he couldnt explain some of his most harmful operational changes. I feel like im stating the obvious, but a businessman with absolutely no experience serving in the Postal Service should not have changed operational procedures without first grasping the negative impacts they would have on our deliverry. I want everyone to know that he ordered the removal of more than 700 sorting machines just this year alone. Nearly double the average number of mail sorting machines thats removed on an annual basis. While i tried to find the best in people, mr. Dejoys recent reversal can better be understood as an omission that his policies ended up being more disastrous to the Postal Service than he even understood. Regardless, mail sorting machines are still being removed leading us to question whether mr. Dejoy is serious about correcting his mistakes. In the more than four months, think about this, 700 machines, hes only been there four months. He has caused incredible harm to the reputation and most importantly the trust that the American People have in the Postal Service. We cannot take this situation lightly in the midst of a Global Pandemic when millions of americans make plans to vote by mail, the disastrous policies by his postmaster general jeopardizes the American Peoples wellbeing and poses and immediate threat to our democracy. I look forward to hearing from our Witnesses Today. Again, i want to thank the chairman and i yield back. Chair connolly thank you, mrs. Lawrence. Thank you for your service. Mr. Kelly, you are recognized for a fiveminute Opening Statement. Mr. Kelly thank you, mr. Chairman. First, i would like to echo the sentiments of the Ranking Member and say that reports about the postmaster general are speculation. This hearing is another attempt to attack the postmaster general insteffed of tackling the real issue of postal reform. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle have been critical dejoys t 34569er theories and launch food conspiracy theoriesries these are tied to destroying the Postal Service. The key question is, why does usps need to be efficient . The answer is simple. Its so americans can have a reliable and affordable Postal Service. As one of our witnesses has mentioned in his testimony, the post reorganization act of 1970 established the usps to be a selfsustaining businesslike entity that would cover its costs primarily with revenues from postage. When the Postal Services spending combloinie on inefficient routes or extra machines, that gets passed on to americans and businesses in the form of slower service or possibly increased postage. Meaningful postage reform will require changes from the status quo and the current broken Business Model that results in regular threats of insol van hollency. The Government Accountability office recently published a report and the title says it all. Ushesf u. S. Postal service conal congressional action is essential to enable a sustainable Business Model. Usps financial viability has been on g. A. O. s highrisk list since 2009. Due to their Poor Condition worsened by the longterm decline in mail since the rise of the internet. G. A. O. Found first class mail declined 44 since fiscal year 2006, and that the Retiree Health benefit fund is protected o be depleted by 2030 if the Postal Service does not make tamentse payments. These are the issues we make payments. These are the issues we need to focus on. We also need to hear from stakeholders who rely on the mail like mr. Plunkett, who the republicans invited. We need to hear from them about reforms that should be put in place. Furthermore, the Postal Service needs to communicate a longterm Business Plan to congress. An item i have been requesting since the previous postmaster generals tenure. None of that is achieved by todays hearing. Lastly, i want to address the false notion about prioritizing the Postal Service. Mr. Chairman, id like to submit to the record the usps Mission Statement from the agencys website adopted by the board of above aboves on april 1, 2020. Chair connolly without objection. Mr. Keller thank you. This statement was adopted by the very board of governors had a some Witnesses Today claim are hyper partisan actors. It was also created before post mast herer dejoy arrived and remain postmaster dejoy arrived and remains unchanged. To serve the American People and through the universal Service Obligation, bind our nation together by maintaining and operating our unique vital and resilient infrastructure. And to carry out this mission, the board of governors states that the Postal Service will remain an integral part of the United States government providing all americans with universal and open access to our unrivaled delivery and storefront network. The Postal Service is a crucial part of our Nations Communications and commerce. Fear mongering and sham hearings like this one today only weaken the Publics Trust in such an important institution. Thank you, i yield back. Chair connolly thank you, mr. Keller. I would also ask that we enter into the record the findings of the Trump Task Force that President Trump put together a few years ago that in fact did recommend privatization of the Postal Service contradicting the statement of the board of governors. There is a contradiction that i think ought to be in the Public Record. With that, our first witness is ann ravel, former federal Election Commission chair and political practices chair, currently serving as add judgetplow fessor at u. C. Berkeley law. Then david fineman, the former chairman of the Postal Service board of governors, and currently serves as a senior partner at fineman, and harris as chairman and secretary for election center. Now we will hear from lisa graves, the executive director and editor in chief of true north research. After that well hear from michael plunkett, who is the president and c. E. O. Of the association for postal commerce. And finally richard painter who is here with us in real time, a familiar figure here on this committee who is a former chief white house ethics lawyer under the bush administration. And current law professor at the university of minnesota. If we could ask all of our witnesses to be unmuted and raise your right hands. If you would rise, mr. Painter, and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Let the record show that all of our witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank you. Without objection, your written statements will be made part of the record. Well ask you to summarize in your fiveminute Opening Statement what you want the committee to know. Raffle ms. Ravel, welcome. Ms. Ravel thank you mr. Connolly and Ranking Member for testifying today n his farewell address president obama said something that is pertinent to this hearing. Our democracy is threatened whenever we take it for granted. All of us, regardless of party, should throw ourselves into the task of rebuilding our democratic institutions. When voting rates are some of the lowest among advanced democracies, we should make it easier not harder to vote. When trust in our institutions is low, we should reduce the corrosive influence of money in our politics and insist on the principles of transparency and ethics in public service. We have, unfortunately, allowed our institutions that are meant to protect our democracy to atrophy we are seeing the results. I observed it as the chair and commissioner of the federal Election Commission. We can certainly see it in the actions of mr. Dejoy, which is why its so important to have this hearing on mr. Dejoys violations of Campaign Finance laws, his ethical transgressions, and his potential to suppress the vote of americans through the Postal Service. Which has been noted is crucial for all citizens to be able to cast their ballots. The almost 1 million contributed by mr. Dejoys employees to political candidates at his urging, which was paid back in the form of bonuses, is an illegal straw donor scheme. Contributions through condue its and funds that are diverted from the Corporate Treasury and laundered to contribute directly to a candidate are prohibited. Even Citizens United held that its corrupting for a corporation to contribute directly to candidates. And funneling the money through employees is clearly illegal. Discussing similar facts in 2017 the United States department of justice concluded in their federal prosecution of election offenses manual that a contribution in the name of another is often used to disguise other Campaign Finance violations by those at their contribute limit and that a common conduit scheme involves a corporate official who instructs Corporation Employees to make contributions to a candidate and then reimburses them from corporate funds, generally, they said, surreptitious bonuses or pay raises. So mr. Dejoys actions are the poster child for these violations. Additionally, mr. Dejoy coerced his employees to contribute. Employees thought their jobs were on the line or they wouldnt be promoted if they didnt contribute. The d. O. J. Manual again states that in all employment situations, the potential for coercion express or implied is inherent in the supervisorssubordinate relationship. So contributions solicited from a subordinate voluntary. Its illegal to coerce any individual to make a contribution or engage in fundraising for a candidate. Such coercion is also a threat to democratic processes because workers freedom of expression and exercise of their own political views is found. But in nearly every case of major significance over a decade, the f. E. C. Has not even investigated serious allegations such as this and rarely enforced the law. Its wellknown that the laws can be ignored. These ethics laws meant to stop corruption and provide valuable information to voters are essential to the integrity and fairness of the political process and to ensure trust in government. The failure of these protections led to where we are today with mr. Dejoy. Who was skirting Campaign Finance laws knowing that with no consequences for violations he could instead be rewarded for his illegal and unethical acts. Now we have to be vigilant that our right to vote wont be postald by a politicized service. Plus it disintegrates as americans might question both the validity of the election and governments response to the voting challenges that we are wasting. Just one important comment here to return faith in our democracy and put our protections back, we need to have h. R. 1, the for the people act, enacted. Thank you so much. Chair connolly thank you chairwoman, ravel, right on the nose. Chairman david fineman. Mr. Fineman thank you, mr. Chairman, for inviting me to participate in this hearing. I am the chairman of Fair Election center of 501c3 Nonpartisan Group that works diligently to ensure that every american has a right to vote. I served during both the clinton and bush administrations as on the board of governors of the United States Postal Service, and was chairman from 2003 to 2005. For the bush administration, as its chairman. I would also indicate to you that never did i hear from the president of the United States or any member of the executive branch regarding postal affairs. I was offended when the president referred to the Postal Service as a joke. I was even more offended when i realized that there were 600,000 employees who were not a joke who were risking their lives to deliver the mail every day. Folks like al rosen who after world war ii joined the United States Postal Service in philadelphia, stayed there for over 30 years, and held a wildcat strike in 1970. You see als son, joe, is a Fraternity Brother of mine. Joe, after graduating college and then going to law school, joined the f. B. I. And he had a distinguished career in the f. B. I. And then became an immigration lawyer in philadelphia. There are hundreds and thousands of stories like this of middle class families being affected by their jobs at the Postal Service. And al rosen was not a joke. In 1968, it became evident to the American Public that the Postal Service was failing in its mission to deliver mail in on a timely basis. As a result, the Capital Commission issued a report in june of 1968, begins by describing how mail is piling up and not being delivered in chicago. And it concludes that the reason for this is because the intrusion of politics into the United States Postal Service. As a result of the commissions report, wildcat strikes most eastern Cities Congress passed the 1970 reorganization act to take politics out of the Postal Service. It created the u. S. Postal service as an independent establishment. The executive branch was a board of governors, five 6 one party, four of another, who would then select the postmaster general. This process was to lead to an apolitical postmaster general. In 2006, it was amended again to eliminate an antigrated postal rate system and anticrated Postal Service rate system and allow the Postal Service more flexibility. It established a law that if the Postal Service was going to change the manner in which it delivered mail on a National Basis t. Had to go through through the Postal Regulatory Commission for a hearing. This postmaster general and board of governors decided not to do that, it resulted in 25 lawsuits filed throughout the United States by attorney generals. The law also requires that the Postal Service prefund, we have heard about this, its pension obligation for 75 years. His Congress Passed house bill 2382 with 309 votes in a bipartisan manner. The bill presently sits on majority leader mcconnells desk awaiting action by the senate. In my law practice i sometimes act as a mediator, so having heard the comments of the republicans and the democrats, and there has not been one written statement against this legislation, im asking that the democrats and the republicans on this committee ask senator mcconnell to bring this bill to a vote before the senate. And i also ask, postmaster general dejoy, chairman duncan, who seemed to be good friends with senator mcconnell, to ask him to bring that bill to a vote before the United States senate. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chair connolly thank you, mr. Fineman. Also right on the money. S. Graves. Ms. Graves good morning, chairman connolly, Ranking Member hice, and distinguished members of the subcommittee i lisa graves and executive director of the true market research. I help the collaboration to boldly think on the ben frank hin project. I chief operation for the u. S. Senate Judiciary Committee where i vetted judicial nomee. It is essential to protecting the integrity of our distributions. The positions of public trust are highly qualified and do not have conflicto agendas of personal interest ahead of the Public Interest. Unfortunately, based on information about mr. Dejoys background and actions, its clear the new, inexperienced partisan led and short tended tenured board of governors appointed by President Trump failed top vet him. I am calling on mr. Dejoy to be fired. First, as ms. Ravel testified mr. Dejoys credible allegations violated anticorruption laws for using straw donors. Congressman keerp asked mr. Dejoy if he ever reimbursed employees and he denied t based on this newly reported information however, i respectfully ask the committee to make a formal referral to the u. S. Attorneys office to investigate mr. Louis dejoys testimony violated 18 u. S. C. 1001 of the criminal code. Second, mr. Dejoy is accused of violating the law by his own brother. Dominick dejoy jr. Swore in a complaint he was cheated out of the Family Business by mr. Dejoy who secretly created private l. L. C. ss subsidiaries. Mr. Dejoy admitted they were separate but denied he did anything wrong. His brother also alleged in the louis ich he denies that dejoy forged his signature and hid mail statements from two banks and Investment Firm for accounts secretedly opened in dominicks name. No postmaster has been subject to such charges before in a civil court or criminal court. If he cannot be trusted by his own flesh and blood with not hiding his mail, and millions of dollars, how can Americans Trust him with millions of our votes . How could the new postal board of governors aproof a person with this history to be postmaster general. The third point is the answer appears to be louis dejoy political contributions made the difference. President trump appointed mike duncan to the board of governors and hes helped raised tens of millions of dollars to help keep Mitch Mcconnell in power. Mr. Duncan admitted to this committee that dejoy was not originally on the list of prospective candidates for the job. However, following 600,000 in contributions to the r. N. C. And President Trumps reelection, mr. Dejoy jumped to the top of the list. It is simply wrong to put such a partisan Political Insider in charge of the Postal Service, especially in an election year. Mr. Dejoys close ties to trump are disqualifying and raise a legitimate question we never had to ask before. Will mr. Dejoy use his power as the postmaster general to deliver our ballots on time or deliver the election to the man he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on and raised millions to help win, donald trump. Fourth, his financial contributions are enormous. He has tens of millions of dollars in stock, a contracting corrector of the Postal Service, and he received millions annually from it through leases and stock transactions. No known postmaster general in history has ever had such financial conflict like mr. Dejoy. Fifth, his destructive actions. Mr. Dejoys actions since he came to the job in june warrants his dismissal. If he was a probationary employee, he would have been fired a month ago. Mr. Dejoy suddenly fired or demoted two dozen Service Experts and on his watch restricted the availability over time and mail machines removed, far more than the usual amount in the past five years, he dictate add disruptive change in nationwide processes by ordering trucks depart even if the mail was not complete. These dictates set chaos and hardships for Senior Citizens and veterans whose lifesaving prescriptions are being delivered late. Now we are at the highest partisanship and arrogance like mr. Dejoy. Six, unfortunately, his actions have may be paving the way to privatizing it. As i documented, it was been proposed since the early 1970s. They have been running didge at that time ads to not give the Postal Service relief funds thats previously requested. An extraordinary liability no other agency or company had. But mr. Dejoy sent partisan politics by refusing to seek the covid relief funding it needs. In conclusion, i urge congress to protect the Postal Service mission antiAmerican People and integrity of our elections by calling for him to be fired. The by fully investigating his activities. And by restoring the role approving the postmaster, restructuring the board, and repealing the 2006 unprecedented debt anchor. The Postal Service belongs to us. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chair connolly thank you, miss ms. Graves. Mr. Michael plunkett, you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Plunkett good afternoon, thank you for the opportunity to speak today about the current state of the Postal Service. Im here on behalf the association for Postal Service commerce. Our members are world class organizations in financial service, health care, telecommunications, low getics, mail production, technology, and shipping. They include. So most recognizable brands in the world as well as small proprietors offering Specialty Products and services this. Diverse group is united in its reliance on the Postal Service and committed to ensuring reliable Postal Services remain available to all u. S. Businesses and citizens. It is a beloved Public Institution and critical component of the nations economic infrastructure. And the center of the mailing industry that employs more than seven million americans, providing jobs never state and accounting for more than 1 trillion in annual revenue. Like many in the streets, ours has been heart by covid19. Along with economic tur royal turmoil, the pandemic has brought into sharp focus the importance of the Postal Service to the American Public. Most employees have served the public admirably since the pandemic began and been a reassuring pressence in our communities during a difficult time. At the same time, the pandemic has brought about sudden and dramatic shifts in Consumer Behavior for exposing the underlying fragility of the system. Most members rely on the Postal Service to deliver bills, statements, magazines, prescription medications, packages, catalogs and essential business communications. Our members to a great extend tent fund the division of Postal Service of the unes through the rates they pay for commercial mail and shipping services. As Congress Considers how best to provide support to the Postal Service, we urge a measured and targeted approach with safeguards to ensure accountability for how relief fund something utilized. We recognize Postal Service has seen unexpected expenses as a result of pandemic. The understandable desire of legislators to provide relief should not lead to excessive and unnecessary diversion of resource that is may be better deployed elsewhere and do little to address the challenges facing the Postal Service. Despite persistent stories about imminent collapse, the Postal Service has adequate resources and capacity to successfully navigate the 2020 election cycle. According to its own reporting, at the end of the third quarter, the Postal Service had Cash Holdings approaching 13 billion since that time revenues have been growing thanks to Significant Growth in the package business. Most recent postal quarter, the Postal Service generated almost 2 billion in from its operations. No one can say whether these letter mail is permanent, whether letter mail when the pandemic reseeds and the economy improves. But the cares act passed earlier provides 10 billion in Borrowing Authority for the unforeseenice should happen. Could ster said it could be funded until 2021. Some contemplated by congress it barely make a dent to a financially sound Postal Service. Longterm retirement liabilities. In fact, our members are any jay wror postponed. F would be we respectfully urge congress to enact comprehensive postal legislation to secure the future of the Postal Service. It to fulfill the statutory role to the economy, a reliable means for ommunicating and helping business. Ne, a welldefined universal Service Obligation based on an estimate what the u. S. Needs from the postal system. Safeguards to ensure users of the monopoly products aintains pricing predictability. Evised the retiree obligation by using strategies more in line with best practices. To ensure ersight accountability and transparency are maintained. Ratepayers vided by or appropriated by congress is misused. D or the Postal Service is not on the verge of a collapse. Reminder pandemic is a it remains a vital part of our economy and the civic life of americans. He Postal Service has the employees, resources, and capacity it needs to perform its mission during the current massive cycle without a infusion of supplemental funding. However, the systemic challenges Postal Service remain. Because of the postal relief currently under consideration is short term in the and inadequate in the long run, we respectfully suggest congress its efforts on muchneeded and long overdue reform. Thank you so much. Mr. Connolly thank you. Ight on the money, mr. Plunkett. Finally, but not least, mr. Painter. Mr. Painter thank you very chairman. Ranking member, members of the ke. Im richard painter, a Law University of e minnesota. Nd from 2005 to 2007, as the chief white house ethics lawyer for president george w. Bush. In the white house ethics of our principal obligations was to make sure hat senior appointees and nominees to the executive branch conflictsof financial of interest. And the reason is that financial conflicts of interest in federal office are a crime. Makes ed states code 208 it a crime for a United States Government Official to a particular matter that has the direct and the ctable effect on financial interests of that Government Official. That statute, its a criminal statute, 18 united 208, please red he had read it, members of the staff. Immittee. Hgs to as it applies generally applicable matters have a direct and predictable effect on identifiable class of persons or if the Government Official has a financial committee. N the ke. The bush in administration we never allowed the head of an agency to have in a nancial Interest Company that had substantial agency. S with that i certainly never allowed it. Financial ed at the disclosure forms and we sent hose nominations onto the senate. We never would have tolerated that whether or not nominated by the president , appointed by the president or anyone else in a senior position. Why . There is a grave risk that that person will commit a theyre in office. How can you run the post Office Decisions about scheduling the mail, about the contracts, ns for about when the trumps leave and you own decisions if millions of dollars of stock in the pany that is trucking mail around . A contractor with a post office. Make any sense. Dejoy, postmaster general, has not been doing his job over the past 13 weeks or so or hes committed a crime that can be a felony. E should not be in that situation. Another thing we did in the bush hite house is we looked at the background of people who were coming into public service. In id not want to bring people who had violated the law. As to whether e mr. Dejoy violated campaign laws. E i will say that if the stories reported in the washington the New York Times are true or any piece of those true about reimbursement of mployees for campaign contributions, that is a straw onor arrangement and thats a felony. People go to jail for that. So we have a very real possibility, possibility im not saying for certain but a the postmaster general of the United States may have committed a felony before enteri office and in office on 18 United States code 208 in office. Is a grave situation. It requires an investigation by this committee. Investigate. B to this is not a Kangaroo Court. As an american and having been a republican for 30 years to use that language used. To investigate this. I submitted an additional letter finkel fessor claire stein at the university of official outlining concerns at the post office about the post office and i will open for questions. Thank you for your time. Mr. Connolly thank you, mr. Painter, for your testimony. Will recognize himself for five minutes. Nd let me begin with you, mr. Painter. Weve heard that having a that includes in large examination of the professional practices and otential conflicts of interest and allegations that have been corroborated by other members of media, besides the Washington Post investigative to illegal espect straw donations, do you believe a worthy subject of this committee and that it is in fact irectly related to the operational changes undertaken by that individual . Is. Painter certainly legitimate area of inquiry for this committee. The integrity of public country is this critically important. That is why we screened out type of people in the bush white house. Why . Because we knew if we didnt, sitting inls will be front of this committee answering questions because this job. Ttee is doing its thats what oversight is. And, yes, if you bring in who has committed Campaign Finance violations, whos willing to do anything, violate the law to elect someone who they want to e president or to win other elections, whats going to stop them from doing it when they run agency, whether its the United States Postal Agency . Or any other so, yes, you are doing your job when you conduct these hearings. Remind us again what your position was in the administration . Ethics ter i wan the law. Mr. Connolly a republican president . Of painter i was a member the Republican Party for 30 years up to 2018. So what we know just from the Public Record, if ou were in that same position today, would that have raised flags for you . What would you have done about it in terms of the idea hat this president could be person could be named postmaster eneral or for that matter any position . Mr. Painter well, because postmaster general is not president , itse an appointment made by the board. Mr. Connolly right. Mr. Painter we heard about it, we would have contacted the board and made it very clear is unacceptable to have a postmaster general who has any Campaign Finance violations. Either that story in the the new post, in york times is true or not true, we will find out before we nominate, before the board someone. Financial conflicts of interest of this sort, absolutely unacceptable. Its a no go. Mr. Connolly do you believe that the board of governors has a fiduciary responsibility to done Due Diligence in terms checks on the postmaster general before appointing him . Mr. Painter absolutely. Corporate and Securities Law and i worked with onprofit Organization Board of directors. Directors have fiduciary obligations and that includes of stigating the background people appointed and screening people s of interest so dont violate the law when they are in their position. Fineman, you mr. Were director of the postal board of governors, is that correct . Mr. Fineman thats correct. Mr. Connolly based on what we now from the Public Record and activities by this full committee and subcommittee, do ou believe the board of governors in fact did its Due Diligence in a federal before nd check appointing mr. Dejoy as postmaster general . I hear, whatsat oming out in the press clearly things where the board of governors would have and i uspected they would have found out had they done an investigation. Mr. Connolly as former chairman the board of governors, do you what is your view about connection of the personal background, professional for round as candidate postmaster general and the potential connection with the of a Postal Service fact he or she in theoretically head, is there a connecti connection . Mr. Fineman mr. Chairman, there a connection. I think i understand rofessor painters point of view. I would extend it a little bit further. I would think that if there is apparent conflict of interest, we should not hire hat person as a postmaster general. And you might ask why. Well, its because the american entitled to have confidence in their that the going to be delivered in any not going to be ay, shape, or form compromised by the actions of the postmaster general. Mr. Connolly thank you, mr. Fineman. Is up. The chair now recognizes the distinguished Ranking Member, mr. Hice, for his five minutes. Mr. Hice thank you, mr. Chairman. Id like to note out of if any of our Witnesses Today are currently mployed by the uspa, those online, if you can answer if you are . Not currently, no. Mr. Hice i would just like for the record to reflect that none our Witnesses Today are Postal Service and yet our hearing today is supposed to be about a postal update. We have no witnesses who are part of the Postal Service. N fact, we have witnesses who basically can do nothing on the issue of what this hearing turning into being. They can do nothing but speculate. Law ve a law professor, a School Lecturer who has etermined guilt based from a Washington Post article. I counted at least two or three imes, mr. Painter, that you assumed guilt already to mr. Dejoy. As being very t professional at all. This is not oversight. Is, again, an attempt to create political assassination, in my opening o statements. When it comes to the question of broke or not mr. Dejoy any Campaign Finance laws, mr. Wouldnt d you you agree that really you have no more information than the this l public has at point . Painter thats a false statement. I did not. And im going to repeat that i not know whether the Campaign Finance laws were violated. Is a false statement that i assumed guilty. Guilt. Med but if those stories are true, what are described in those felonies. Multiple it must be investigated. Mr. Hice ok. Mr. Painter its unacceptable a position ofe in trust in our government who is those types of violations of the law. The same with respect to 18 code 208. Tes i do not know for certain if there is a violation. Mr. Hice mr. Painter, you are nswering questions i did not ask. I said he you said was guilty. R. Hice what we have is your opinion, which is fine. Youre certainly entitled to your opinion. A hypothetical opinion at this point. Based on an article. Theres not been any investigation thats come down it. Can you explain to me what x. P. O. Does . Mr. Painter x. P. O. , to the best f my knowledge, ships mail in trucks and performs other logistic operations for the service. Ates postal once again, i have not assumed that the postmaster general has committed a crime but the fact of the matter is we ave a contractor with large contracts with the Postal Service and there is a very high egree of likelihood that a postmaster general who is doing his job would be making decisions that have a direct and predictable effect on a contractor of that size with the service. Mr. Hice are you qualified to evaluate whether or not the x. P. O. And between usps hasse stand by of n to the conflict interest . Mr. Painter yes. I made that decision for the bush administration. Mr. Hice are you a member of governors . F mr. Painter i made that determination. You ont get that job if keep stocking a contractor with your agency. Thats a dealbreaker because Public Office to and commit a felony. And that i did repeatedly. You have to ople, sell the stock. You dont go to the department defensese and unstock a contractor. Mr. Hice i asked if you are qualified and you go back to our terms during the bush administration. My question is on this particular situation, and you are not a member of the board of governors. You are not part of the vetting. The board of governors did do vetting. They did look into these issues. Mr. Dejoy didthat divest certains assets that he had . Mr. Painter yes, i know he divested. Contract stock in a company that has large contracts with the Postal Service. Am qualified to say that is unacceptable. It would have been a ealbreaker in the bush administration. We would not have nominated, appointed or approved in any way a seen dwror zek senior official. Branch mr. Hice the board of governors did. Assets. Ivested other x. P. O. , the u. S. Postal service whether its ise or not i am not getting into. He made clear transparent, he laid out there his assets and he correct . , is that mr. Painter the board of governors made that decision and wrong and o say its i am qualified to say its wrong he it poses a risk that could commit a crime in office. R. Hice sounds like he confirm confirmed his belief that a crime has been committed. Mr. Painter i said a grave risk a crime would be committed. Mr. Connolly for the record, the chair heard mr. Painter hypothetical. Should if this were true. The hair now recognizes distinguished chairwoman, mrs. Maloney, for her five minutes. Rs. Maloney thank you very much. I thank all of the panelists for heir really important testimony. Mr. Fineman, you have extensive level nce with the high inner workings of the Postal Service. You spent 10 years on the board of governors. Really are an expert on the and the board of governors. In your 10 years on the board, you were involved in the hiring postmasters, one in 1998 and the other in 2001. Correct . Mr. Fineman yes. Mrs. Maloney during those processes, was it standard for the board to ontract an outside firm to conduct the search . Mr. Fineman yes, it was. Makes loney well, that sense. The board is small and needs to perform an executive search for countrys most important independent agencies. On during our hearing august 24, chairman duncan mr. Ated that he put consideration. To after Russell Reynolds associates had already provided list of qualified candidates to the board for consideration, he went into detail. Considered. Y people they narrowed it down to 200. Then to 50. 12. To in either of your selection for postmaster general that you participated in, did add candidates after the search firm had its work to narrow down the list of candidates, candidates . Mr. Fineman to the best of my remember on, i do not anyone recommending anyone on a personal basis. They did, rankly, if it wouldnt come before the board initially. To the search k firm so they could do their due candidate. Bout the mrs. Maloney thank you. The board followed in this instance, to me, seems unusual. In your experience, how is the election process for the postmaster general supposed to work . Hiring an in executive search firm, the you tive search firm gives a multitude of candidates. You narrow down that multitude of candidates. Interviewing, and then we come down to about, i dont know, 10 or so candidates we interview, that the board interviews. Rs. Maloney well, mr. Fineman mr. Fineman we make the we want tion as to who to hire. And in that process, we are getting information about the all of the f individuals. Mrs. Maloney thank you. You were still on the board, would you have gone mr. Dejoyr way to add to the list of candidates . Him . You have chosen mr. Fineman let me first say that i would not have gone out of my way. Asking me whether i would have chosen him, the answer would be no. There was a that conflict of interest to begin with. Had an interest in one of the largest contractors postal United States service. As i said before, its not even the direct conflict. Of a he appearance conflict. Which would concern me. If i can just say, f we leave aside the conflict issues, when youre looking for are tmaster general, there certain things that we look forward. E look for communication skills. Am i going to is the postmaster general going to be ble to communicate with the stakeholders of the Postal Service . Mrs. Maloney reclaiming my time because my time is limited. Mr. Fineman that means you and your republican colleagues. Mrs. Maloney ok. Mr. Fineman, we have requested information about the board. From the but to date, they have refused to provide us with any all. Mation at do you think it is appropriate to work oard to refuse with this Committee Given the esponsibilities we have for oversight for the Postal Service . Absolutely. They should be giving you what you asked for, and quite frankly, they should be giving ask for. Than you mrs. Maloney thank you. Thank you very much. Quickly, mr. Plunkett. The metadata in your testimony written by Jessica Lawrence. Who is Jessica Lawrence . Mr. Plunkett shes my predecessor at my current position. A document template that had her name on it. Rs. Maloney so she did not write it but it looked like she did . Mr. Plunkett absolutely not. Mrs. Maloney my time has expired. I particularly want to thank here today. Being especially mr. Richard painter. A post office should be bipartisan, nonpartisan position hat serves the American People and you made that point very clear. I thank you for your service. All the participants ervice and for you being here today. I yield back. Mr. Connolly i thank the distinguished chairwoman. The gentleman from alabama, mr. Is recognized for five minutes. Mr. Palmer i thank the chairman. All, this is all about politics. Its really not about the post office. That. E witnesses reflect its remarkable some of the claims that have been made by individuals. Ms. Graves raising questions in work about dark money and ources of funds when her own organization received over 500,000 from outside sources. R. Painter apparently thinks hes still campaigning for office. Animated in your responses. Tout your you want to republican credentials when you an for the senate as a democrat. And in 2016, you filed a complaint claiming that james hatch act ted the when he released information discovered wly mails on Hillary Clintons computers. And it just this just seems like its not really about resolve anything related to the post office. Would have been done years ago when during the they were istration 3,700 post ut down offices. Deeplymr. Connolly cares about this. I think you and i and other members of this Committee Really for the post form office. To cut were planning sorry cut 10 billion in cuts and close 3,700 cut 120,000 and jobs. In this is all documented the Washington Post. Since were using the source. On post as a got multiple articles here from the Washington Post. Talking about the delay and delivery of mail, the changes were being made, the closure of sorting facilities. Machinestaking sorting out but closing facilities. Mr. Connolly if the gentleman yield . Well freeze this time. Please freeze this time. Just as a matter of record, it as not the obama administration. It was the Postal Service. It was under the previous prior to ms. Eral brennan. Ms. Donahue. Will point out on a bipartisan basis there was an uproar in congress about it and we got it was being ause it done unilaterally. It was being doing capriciously no consultation with members or communities affected. I just want to make that point there was mr. Comer mentioned in our last hearing hat where was the democratic outrage then . Actually, there was a ton of it. That. Was here for it was on a bipartisan basis. Because that postmaster general do his consultation with the administration or with congress. Yielding. Friend for and his time is intact. Mr. Palmer and i appreciate that. Omments on and it was an outrage with congress. The post int is, that office has had major, major problems for years. Nd weve been trying to sort through this. In the most affective way that we can effective way that we the problems with the post office. But now its become political to also point ke ut that the changes that the current postmaster general has been accused of making were implemented before he took office. O make the same point youre making, i think were casting aspersions where theyre not justified. These other issues. I just think that this has so highly partisan. Divisiveness the of our ability of whats going on in congress that makes get anything done almost impossible. And to bring in witnesses who as partisan as these witnesses are, this is not productive. Advance the agenda for the post office in any form fashion. Hats my problem with this hearing. I know, mr. Chairman, where your reform. For ut, again, i just take exception at what im hearing here today. With that ill yield back. Mr. Connolly i thank the gentleman. The gentlelady from the district columbia, congresswoman norton, is recognized for her five minutes. Norton connolly congresswoman norton, are you there . To ton im trying mr. Connolly well return to congresswoman norton. Ms. Norton can you hear me now . Mr. Connolly we can. That. Rton sorry about mr. Chairman, i note that the Ranking Member wondered why you this hearing. I simply want to commend you for this hearing. May be the ervice most Important Agency in the today. States when you consider the pandemic and how people are getting their medicines. Not to mention the upcoming election. I appreciated hearing very much. Let me go on to my first question. Fineman, an mr. You. Question is for because as a former chair of the you l board of services, will be particularly qualified, t seems to me, to answer this question. T has to do with privatizing the Postal Service. That the e eorganization document of the Administration Made it clear it privatize the Postal Service. Fineman, as the former chair governors. D of mr. Connolly can you turn on your video, please . Ms. Norton sorry. I thought can you see me now . Mr. Connolly not yet. Wait a minute. Start video. It says start video. And i have been on before. I have been on the whole time of this hearing. Know. Nnolly i dont see ason we you . Ms. Norton not yet. I can see me. Mr. Connolly as beautiful it is, im sure. Technical problem here. Me on my i can see screen. And i can hear me. Mr. Connolly ok. Have to put up with technical problems. If theres no objection, the proceed. Y may hopefully her visual will come through shortly. Thank you. Ms. Norton ok. You, ms. Ly thank norton. Ms. Norton mr. Fineman, id know, since the notion of privatizing the postal ervice is on the administrations mind, who would benefit from privatizing the service . Mr. Fineman . Lose . O, if anybody, would mr. Fineman well, lets start with your first question, who would benefit . The private ely Delivery Services would benefit. S you raise the prices of Postal Service and as you diminish its capability, more people will go to the private Delivery Services to get mail delivered, their packages delivered, etc. And thats who would benefit. Talk about whose services would be diminished . Rural america. I know if congressman keller is there, congressman, i know your district. Pennsylvania, where i spent a fair amount of time. Its one of the most beautiful places in america. Will not get le mail on a regular basis if its privatized. People in es for potter county. Holmes, let mean just say, your constituents will basis mail on a regular if its privatized. People in the inner cities. Philadelphia. H in west pennsylvania. Theyre not going to get mail on basis. Ar why . Because its not profitable to to ate Delivery Companies deliver mail regularly, niversally, to the inner city and to rural america. And quite frankly, one of the the yearsstomers over of the United States postal ervice has been private Delivery Companies. Because when they have packages, that they do not want to deliver, you know who they give it to . United e it to the states Postal Service. Because theyre going to deliver packages into montana, packages into iowa. And the private delivery doingies cant make money it. They cant fill that truck with go into rurals to america to deliver packages. Very rton you made a important point. This kind of lastmile delivery to places in the United States is clearly unprofitable and yet they seal their see every day like i do in a big city. Very important of me to note. Graves, can you voice the that the board of governors a member of the board of governors or a member a member of the public would have with a who date like mr. Dejoy invests in companies that Postal Service contracts or would benefit if he Postal Service moves to privatization . Ms. Graves thank you so much, congresswoman, for your question. Think that its important for the American People to understand that it is a of interest,nflict as the other witnesses have a postmaster for general to have millions of dollars in stock in a company that does business with the u. S. Postal service. I in fact one of the things x. P. O. Has with the hundreds of contracts had has revenue Postal Service it een 27 million a year, helps deliver the mail during peak holiday time and during the election. With a postmaster general who has been appointed to this position in part basically because hes a donor to this president. Chosen by mike the man helped Mitch Mcconnell stay in power in the United States senate. Congressman congressman pardon me when mentions the n politicization of the postal itsce, i would say to you coming from the Postal Service its held through this election of mr. Dejoy by mr. The way, ose term by hell serve until 2025 unless hes removed. A postmaster general and a chairman of the board who are the most political people to position in its history since the 1970s, since those reforms. Now, u have this pattern this summer, of these specific edicts by mr. Dejoy srns and cted veterans Senior Citizens and veterans. Mr. Connolly thank you. Im sorry. The gentleladys time has expired. Apologize. I its not mr. Graves. Its ms. Graves. Mr. Connolly thank you. Pennsylvania, mr. Kel the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. Keller, is recognized for his five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Id like to get at things. I know my district has brought sullivan county, potter county, all 15 counties which i do advocate for the people every day. That is my job and i will continue to do that. People on the other side of the aisle would have the same concern to make get that my constituents mail, to make sure we stand up of the hardworking people the United States post office that process and deliver our mail and do all the good work down to really postal reforms which is what i thought his hearing was about but somehow its devolved into olitical contributions and accusations that were put out in the print of the New York Times and the Washington Post. So im a little disappointed this. Were headed with since were there, mr. Painter, in brought up accusations the Washington Post and New York Times. Are you aware they published were then found not to be true . Easy question. Mr. Painter i dont know whether this story mr. Keller the question is yes no. Have you ever been made aware they published is not accurate . Mr. Painter i think every once i said if true its a crime. Mr. Keller again, i wish we down to making sure that the Postal Service has the job. It needs to do its since we are on political contributions, ill ask questions. Fineman, have you ever made political contributions to Political Campaigns . Absolutely. Mr. Keller ok. What party . Democrats and th republicans. Have you contributed to any democrats this cycle . Mr. Fineman i would like to tell you i have the record. Ms. Ravel, have you contributed to Political Campaigns . No . Or is that question directed to me . Keller ann ravel. Ms. Ravel im on the phone. Mr. Keller excuse me. Answer. Get the mr. Connolly ms. Ravel, can you repeat your answer . Was, vel the question have i contributed to campaigns . Keller thats the issue we are talking about today. Ms. Ravel yes. Keller ms. Graves . Ms. Graves i have not money to donald trump. I have not made any cycle. Utions in this but i would note mr. Keller yes or no is the question. Painter, have you contributed to campaigns . Yes. Ainter thousands of dollars to campaigns. Mr. Keller thank you. Mr. Plunkett, have you contributed to campaigns . Mr. Plunkett yes. Mr. Keller again, id think having people contributed to campaigns, we would have people in here that understand he Postal Service and understand how well make reforms so this can be sustained. Nd ive heard much testimony today tearing down character based upon stories written in items. Ers and other if anybody has done anything illegal, ill be the first one held l you they should be accountable to the fullest extent of the law. Thought whato i we were looking at is making sure that the United States Postal Service provides the good that they do for a very, very long period, taking care of on constituents that rely that and on that and also taking care of the people that do the work every day but were here doing that. Were here doing many other things. Its quite frankly disappointing. Would like to i say im very committed to making sure that we have i prepay of ssue of benefits. Its a serious thing. That pays for postemployment benefits is in running out of money in the upcoming of years. Is when answer employee hired, you make a contribution now so every time when they adequate Funds Available to pay for that employees benefits. Those are the things we should discussing. We should be discussing how we Work Together across the aisle those things hat are accomplished. Not all the other things have gone on. Point. Ive proven my if its about Political Campaigns, maybe we ought to adjourn this meeting and go on we can ting where actually get down to the business of solving the issues with the United States Postal Service. Thank you and i yield back. Mr. Connolly i thank the gentleman. As the coauthor of the major bill that was cosponsored with my friend, i assure the gentleman from pennsylvania of the commitment of this ofCommittee Chair and i know the full Committee Chair to postal reform. I would also note for the the issue before us that was being discussed was not made a somebody Political Campaign contribution. That. S nothing wrong with the question alleged in the Washington Post and the new ork times and other Media Outlets was whether straw donations occurred. A, her in fact there was, pressure or coercionly. And secondly, a violation of law donations those through bonuses or salary. That is illegal. Was being s what pursued. Not whether somebody made a contribution. This mr. Keller mr. Chairman, if i can, though. In the United States of america, nder our constitution, people are presumed innocent until Proven Guilty and they are not supposed to be Proven Guilty or a by a ich newspaper article. Mr. Connolly thats right. Committee, this for this committee, we have to make of charges of n someone including serving your district. Mine. L as mr. Keller where are lets get keller thats get down to that. Thatsnolly mr. Keller, what were trying to do. You are trying to discredit this hearing about not having anything to do with the operations of the Postal Service respectfully, i disagree. Recognizes the gentleman from maryland, mr. Sarbanes, for five minutes. Mr. Sarbanes thanks very much, chairman. Can you hear me . Mr. Connolly we can. And we can see you. Sarbanes thank you. As you know, mr. Chairman, on the full in front of oversight committee, postmaster dejoy and usps board of and at that tified time mr. Dejoy stated, quote, i no patterns of misconduct in my background, end quote. Well, obviously based on what we now, based on some of the testimony were getting today, e know that assertion is pate antley absurd patently asubbed. Absurd. Among the pa trade of conflicts of parade of conflicts of seen from the trump administration, mr. Ejoys conduct sinks to new depths. Let me pick up on this straw onor situation we have been talking about. Mr. Dejoy was chairman and c. E. O. Of new breed logistics 2014. 983 to s the post reported, between 2000 and 2017, he may have operated this kind of straw donor scheme at his employees reimbursing in their salaries for contributions they made to candidates. From vel, if the reports the Washington Post about mr. Dejoy are true, and knowing what about Campaign Finance law, would you say that those misconduct . Y as senator es, congressman sarbanes. If they are true, and since they quot quoted employees who indicated there is veracity to it, it qualify as nly riminal conduct in addition to civil. So theres no question about it. In my ch is why, testimony, i quoted the of justice who in that these sorts illegal s are clearly in fact over could be he person convicted and sent to jail for two years. More, which is whats alleged in this case, for five minutes. I think they are very serious allegations. Sarbanes in fact thank you for that. Found between 2000 124 individuals who worked for the company together gave more than 1 million to and state g. O. P. Candidates. And this is worth noting. Individuals had not previously made political donations. Nd theyve not made any political donations since leaving the company. Was going on there. Of the mer commissioner federal Election Commission, id be interested to knowing from ou whether if the allegations are true, exactly how does mr. Violate the ns federal election laws . Whats the chapter and verse on straw terms of these donor schemes . Were not hearing you. Sorry. El oh, so im so sorry for the sound. The background. Is illegal and a felony to contributions. There is no question. It is willful, thats what provides. When a person contributes, wants campaign but to a doesnt want to disclose that theyre the donor, either its an illegal corporation from a or from some other reason they to be identified, the extremely clear that illegal. N its face mr. Sarbanes let me jump in, ms. Ravel. Let me jump in real quick because i want to get something the record from you. F. E. C. Should hold mr. Accountable, whos culpable in situations like this where employees are being paid company for h the political contributions they make . To what would you say employees who are wrestling with whether to come forward and about this rmation general donor mr. Connolly the gentlemans but the witness may respond. Ms. Ravel thank you. C. E. O. Is pestering make these kinds of contributions, it is the c. E. O. Culpable. That is very clear in the law. The recipient committee knows hey received the money through a fraudulent scheme they should the originalney to source. Given the information we know, is it would not eliminate person ability of the who engaged in the straw donor scheme. Mr. Connolly thank you. Mr. Sarbanes thank you. Mr. Connolly the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. Grothman, is for his five minutes. Mr. Grothman thank you. I have some questions for mr. Plunkett. All, id like to thank mr. Palmer for his questions. Matter the political background of someone. I have been left under the painter was at mr. A democrat unless mr. Palmer had was a t he republican unless it was mr. Almer said he ran for u. S. Senate. I never would have dreamed from his testimony. Mr. Painter mr. Chairman, i am democrat. Im an independent. Its just not true. Ran in an open primary as an independent. Mr. Grothman ok. But not a republican. Plunkett, a lot of the attention mr. Painter sorry. Did you say you were an you onnolly did you say were an independent . Mr. Painter no. R. Connolly go ahead, mr. Grothman. Mr. Grothman are you an independent . I was a republican for 30 years. N independent because of my disgust whats happened in party. Mr. Grothman postmaster general ejoy is trying to rein in costs. Do you feel his cost control mailers and fits anyone using the postal system . Any efforts ainly, that makes the Postal Service more efficient would benefit the use of the system. Ast week the Postal Services overtime usage had increased at the Postal Service by 30 . The fact that mail eclined in either one of those years. So we care very much that efforts are maintained to keep efficient andvice to remove unnecessary costs. R. Grothman you dont feel hes been sabotaging the post office or the mail . Done so far are moving things in the right direction . Say the an i would things weve observed so far are consistent with similar efforts in the past under ifferent post masters general and were not all that surprising to be honest. Mr. Grothman how long have you postal policy . N mr. Fineman this is my fifth year and i worked for the postal for approximately 28 years. Mr. Grothman you should know about the Postal Service, it you. D be how long has the Postal Service lost money . Mr. Fineman oh, i think every back to at least 2008. Mr. Grothman ok. How ou give me suggestions you feel they can get a handle on costs . Mr. Fineman well, i certainly to increase productivity would be beneficial and are much needed. Encourage the Postal Service to concentrate its fforts on making its lastmile Delivery Network as efficient as possible. Testimony, i y think there are Things Congress can do that can relieve some of burdensome ary and retirement funding that would benefit the system. I also think we really need to at the Postal Service obligation and determine public what the american needs in the 21st century. It really it goes back to it needs reexamination. Mr. Grothman ok. Determine thevice 25 billion in a fiveyear period was paid for overtime and that the amount of employees who earn more overtime than straight 430 during by that time. How can we get those costs under control . Specific ideas on the overtime . Report man well, the was maybe not as detailed in providing complete answers as to should take. I think, for example, some of the things that we know the Postal Service is attempting to taking out excess equipment. Eliminating unnecessary trips. Rtation all of those things can help. And all needs to be done to nsure that the costs of the Postal Service remain under control. Mr. Grothman ok. I always had good experience office. Post i know some of the postal workers in my district tell me theyre getting more overtime want. They of course, some people always love the overtime. My life ll, i think in i had one letter not delivered to me on time. The post l Overall Office is doing a good job mail . Ring the mr. Fineman in general, yes. The post Office Delivers mail very well, especially first mail. I think theyve been tested because of the increase in packages theyre seeing as a of the pandemic is not really what their network was designed for. Service doespostal an excellent job delivering the mail. Mr. Grothman just to emphasize i go back to what talked about a couple weeks ago. Isit true the post office it really true their sales have gone up since the pandemic . Mr. Fineman actually, yes. In the last few months, Postal Service revenues are above and above last year so they are exceeding revenue expectations. Mr. Grothman thank you for the time. Mr. Connolly id enter into the what has already been entered into the full committee ecord the Service Performance measurement, a briefing of the postmaster general by the Postal Service, which shows, contrary to what mr. Plunkett asserted, sharp decline in Service Since week 41, which same week in the which mr. Dejoy took over the service. And it consistently shows a 7 to 8 stantial below the service baseline. O its not a normal fluctuation. According to the Postal Services own documentation. Into the record. I now call ms. Speier, youre ext but i understand you have yielded to mrs. Lawrence. Thank you so much for your courtesy, and you will be right mrs. Lawrence. Mrs. Lawrence, welcome. Lawrence thank you so much. Want to say, as were having this dialogue, lets not this is an election year. Were being confronted with voting by mail. Mr. Dejoy, just like we mentioned, there should be a comprehensive plan. All are in support of postal reform. Those committees with congressman meadows, at that time. The leadership why didnt dejoy do his job . To us his plan for a comprehensive reform of the Postal Service . Would be glad to have that conversation. Here. Day, were and in the midst of the president of the United States the nuously attacking long service and its tanding ability to service people. So we are doing our job. The president is saying that the Postal Service is not operating. Have a postmaster general and has doing his job admitted he doesnt understand he post office, and were sitting here today saying we need postal reform, then thats hat we are supposed to be doing. I join my colleagues in saying, we will have that conversation week. Y of the so with that being said, millions of americans received a mailer from the Postal Service mail. People to vote by not surprisingly, mr. Dejoy does hat hes done in other situations. He did not consult with the key stakeholders. Actually mailed a mailer tells the American People though he country, even we have different every state as established their own plan that says request your mailin ballot at bsentee least 15 days before election day. States, like colorado, who mails everyone an application. Ot we did it here in michigan. An re you saying you have absentee ballot being mailed to you, now, go call your state and request the ballot, it is confusing. Going to ask ms. Ravel, given the circumstances surrounded mr. Dejoys actions, just the conflict that we seeing, the voter integrity commission, what should we be doing as members of congress to actions that ese we continue to see will not to be a form of oppression we are going to have to leave his live here at this point to fulfill our 40plus year commitment to live congressional coverage. Continue to watch this cspan. Org. Website 24 bills on the calendar, including a measure requiring budget ation for requests. Votes will be held after 6 30 eastern today. Floor of theto the u. S. House here on cspan. The prayer will be offered by our chaplain, father conroy. Chaplain conroy let us pray. Merciful god, we give you thanks for giving us another day. As the members of the peoples house return to washington, keep them safe in their travels. You know well the dangers confronting the citizens of our nation. Extreme weather events, ongoing pandemic effects, economic istress, and impending loss of employment and even housing. Fill the members with wisdom, patience, and determination