Cspan radio app. Here to join us to talk about the state of National Security sanderson. Homas , and im happy to beyond provide some insight and answer some questions. Host can you tell the audience about your background in this field . Guest i started out back in 1998 back in graduate school. This was the summer we were attacked in east africa by al qaeda. Defensework with a contractor called saic. I was assigned to programs looking at the threat of weapons of mass destruction, following the east africa bombings. We were concerned that al qaeda was seeking to up their game by using weapons of mass destruction. My team and i looked at the various groups that have tried to obtain weapons of mass destruction, from chlorine gas to using other materials. We looked at that, i did that for four years and i went off to china to do a fellowship. That happened to be right after 9 11, bow two weeks after 9 11. When i came back i joined the center for strategic and international studies. The director of the transnational organized crime project was there. We cofounded a new program called transnational threats project. For 16 years we looked at the degree and the nature of the terrorist threat through fieldwork. That enabled me and had me go out across the globe to over 70 countries to engage all manner of sources from terrorists, traffickers, to clergy, to ngos, to local Law Enforcement and intelligence, to journalists and academics. All with the aim of collecting opensource information and insight, to bring it back and brief our government and the hope that we could fill in pieces of the puzzle to better fill out an flesh out what the threat looks like and what we can do. Fieldwork, it was academic in nature, designed to fill gaps in our understanding of the threat. Host now that you are a consultant, who do you consult for . The government . Who do you do work for generally . Guest chiefly for the National Security community and the Intelligence Community. I also work with corporations and individuals. People who are looking at risk and disruption and conflict across the world and they want a better understanding of what some of these changes foretell for business, economics, politics, diplomacy. I consult with these Companies Using my ongoing fieldwork in the same areas to get a better sense of what is happening on the ground. Host we are 19 years after 9 11, how would you characterize the level of security the United States currently has from outside forces. Good levelave a very of security, theres no doubt about it, we have had vast improvements in our ability to to detectrseas and terror threats. The more familiar ones to the audience and everyone are al qaeda and isis. The type of attack we saw on 9 11 is so difficult to pull off today for so many reasons. What we do with Homeland Security, the f guy, the cia and nsa and all of our agencies in terms of less nation and sharing it with partners overseas, sharing it with one another here threatsle to prevent and those forces from coming to the United States. But as im sure you can guess, thats not the only way we can be attacked. We have done a good job of preventing another 9 11 style attack. Host was that due to the creation of Homeland Security itself or were there other fact. The Counterterrorism Center was created after the Intelligence Report came out. That led to the collection and sharing of information on terror threats. Of creation and execution these duties in addition to , as well asurity working with local, state, and tribal Law Enforcement. And our partners overseas have brought us to this greater degree of security you we are not, but better. Host continuing to look at outside forces, how would you wait al qaeda as a factor, what other factors or country should United States be looking at as far as those who could potentially harm us. 2 guest on the nonstate actor side, al qaeda, isis and hezbollah i would put at the top and their affiliates across the globe. I would rate them as high threats. They are active around the world. Seek to strike the United States and u. S. Assets abroad. They have affiliates in west africa where i was a year ago, and in east africa, central africa, the middle east and southeast asia. They have loan actors around the globe with huge concentrations of fighters in syria. Those three groups present a significant threat to americans abroad. Stillth al qaeda and isis seeking to strike the United States. Miller, the head of the national counterterrorist office talks about his own assessment and how he characterizes the similar disarray and focusing on surviving. Guest they are doing more than surviving. I have been on the ground in these areas where they have a countries unstable. They have coopted local grievances and taken advantage of the failed governments that we have seen. I do not discount al qaedas capability, nor isis. Simply because we have taken at their Senior Leadership at one point in the past does not mean that they are listless. Are not focused and organized. They still have leadership in individual areas. They have incredible battlefield experience. If you look at the skill level of those operators who have survived battles with each other, hezbollah, u. S. Special andes, russia and syria other forces. Those are the best of the best. I would also point out that social media gives them exceptional reach into this country and abroad. I dont discount the threat. They have been battered and we have done a good job in taking away the territory in some areas but in other places they have significant territory. West africa in particular. With usr guest will be to the moment of silence and then we will resume. If you would like to ask question, questions, 202 7488000for the central and eastern time zones, 202 7488001in the mountain and pacific time zones. Have talked about information sharing. One of the things we saw come out of the 9 11 commission was stove piping, the keeping of information and not sharing it. How has that changed . Guest it has not gone away because all of these agencies are competing for funding, attention, when you have something good it is difficult to give it up. That and those agencies do a good job but could do better sharing that critical information. It is always a problem and bureaucracy is difficult to manage. But we do a better job than we did prior to 9 11. There is no comparison. Host when it comes to the various administrations that have been in place since 9 11, whats been done for improvement to National Security, or concerns about it stretching among those administrations . Guest each has handed the baton off to the next and they have run with it. There were good coordinations when bush left and obama came in. When obama came and they wanted to reduce the footprint overseas in terms of the big military but sent special forces in to do a lot of counterterrorism. That counterterrorist actions prayed that was upped by the Trump Administration p there is good flow of the previous efforts from bush to obama and obama to trump. Nothing is perfect, and each administration has its different issues it wants to focus on. But the military has maintained that flow, the Intelligence Community has maintained that flow. This current administration, a recent announcement of a drawdown of troops in iraq and germany. National security wise, what does that mean . Guest those are Different Things pray let me start with germany. It is critical that we maintain forces in germany because of the activities of russia. I dont think that was a good thing to do and i think it was largely political and personal in nature on the president s part. Isiraq, another area that dangerous but focusing on a very different set of adversaries, it is iran and its shiite militias as well as remnants of isis that took over back in 2014. Its harder to say whether the drawdown in iraq is appropriate or not. In germany the case is more clearcut. Its important to have the forces on the ground, when they are not around, countries without Good Governance make major mistakes. Having our forces there provides training and a sort of oversight and cooperation that cannot be maintained when you dont have those forces on the ground. But those forces also constitute targets and motivating factor for militants and their recruitment efforts. Host our first call is from andy, in virginia. Go ahead. Caller hello. Thank you for having me, this is. Very solemn, somber day im originally from new york. Ity and i do have a question International Terrorism has really plagued our entire military and since you have expertise in the geopolitical about what do you think our domestic terrorism . Its very concerning, the fbi has had several reports along with the department of Homeland Security and Pew Research Center as well as the southern poverty law center. What is your view and what is being done to counter it within our own country . We focus so much on overseas and of course they came here and did this horrible thing to our citizen. But what do we do not what are we doing now with regards to our own Fringe Groups who seem to be really exacerbating things in our nation . Guest thats a fantastic question. Two primaryss blocks of actors in the u. S. We still have individuals in the United States who are aligned and theireda and isis mission of attacking the United States and our allies. They are easily reached through social media. Has been one of the most significant factor since 9 11 that has enabled these groups to radicalize, connect with, to market their activity, beheadings, bombings, so they can reach into this country even if they are sitting in pakistan or Northern Nigeria or some other area. That remains a threat inside the country and they can create these loan actors who are often marginalized, young men, sometimes women but largely men, to do their bidding in the United States. We also have a threat in white supremacists, and neonazi groups who have attacked mosques and synagogues. Citizens who are using the same social media tools to also and to intimidate largely minorities in the United States. Thats a critical problem. Earlier this year, christopher wray, the fbi director, said these groups were racially motivated groups that are largely white supremacists, and are now a critical National Security threat. Raised to the same level as isis and al qaeda. We have that now. In addition, the polarized politics in this country are creating violent actors across the spectrum to farright from farleft to farright. This is dangerous to our country, more needs to be done. Maryland, dale is next. Good morning. First, im so sorry that 9 11 happened and all of these people died. Its terrible catastrophe. But, i would lay the blame at the feet of the airlines. I say that because for decades the airlines have been approached by many people, including the government, to harden the doors, as israel had many years ago read they because they were afraid they would scare the customers. In my mind, it was for profit that the airlines did not harden the doors, because with locked doors you cannot fly on the plane. Guest you bring up a straightforward point, if they could not enter the carpet they could not have crash the plane spray they did not have bomb so they could not have brought down had boxlane, they only cutters and brute physical force. You are correct, they would not have been able to commandeer the planes. And they sought to do that, they came over for months ahead of time, took those flying lessons around the country with the aim of crashing those aircraft. I dont know about the airlines decisions in the pre9 11 era but not to do that, but they did not have that in place. Host we saw the creation of the tsa coming out of that, what contribution have they had in Security Matters . Guest it has certainly improve security at the point of entrance to the aircraft and the airport. People are screened more thoroughly than they were before and its more difficult to get a weapon on board. Owever it still happens government officers are still able to smuggle weapons through in testing exercises and some people still get knives and firearms. One of the scary things, and its in advance that we have seen since 9 11, this 3d manufacturing, creating handguns that have no metal parts. Thats of great concern. The tsa continues to improve. Are they perfect . Of course not. But they have created a more forbidding environment for terrorists who are trying to take over aircraft. Ad aircraft still remain favorite target, whether its by commandeering the plane or shooting down the plane with a shoulder fire missile. It has great impact visually and economically and psychologically on the public. Waldorf,m maryland, in robert, go ahead. With the immigration policies without the immigration policies of liberals these gentlemen would not have made it into the country area you want to talk about had they did this, without the policies to allow them in their this would have never happened. We talk about september 11 does a bad day, we lost 3000 people. Ever we are now looking at i present 190,000 people who have died from a chinese biological weapon. Have you mentioned that . No. Your incompetence is the reason we are having these problems. Host we will leave that there. Mr. Sanderson, go ahead. Guest its impossible to stop everyone from coming into the country. Even if we had zero immigration, online radicalization and recruitment would take place. Shutting down the borders would not prevent terrorism from happening inside the United States. We are a country of immigrants and im sure that my caller has immigrants in his family background. In terms of the virus, thats a relevant point to bring up. Bioweapons are a critical threat to this country and the ability to spread a virus. And i dont believe that china deliberately spread the virus into the United States. Nonetheless, its a telling example of how a virus can spread around the world and greatly impact the nation. Nobody needs to have me recite with those impacts are, social, political, economic, and otherwise. Allen, in ohio. And their talking about in oregon, this is going on now. To peoples people while they are eating we need to say their names again. Im care if i get tired of people like that. Trying to blame everyone else. The phone withn him . Really want to ask him anything as hes blaming the right wing. They are going and where people are eating food in new york. Host what these events the certain cities. Guest there is violence across the spectrum from farleft to farright and the polarization we have in the country worsens it. Theres no doubt about it. But the movements that we see on the far right wing extreme right wing white supremacist neonazi groups that every american should hate, those are extremely powerful and has caused the fbi to raid those racially motivated attacks,d their raising them to a National Security level. Thats undeniable, the evidence is there. The Antidefamation League records all of these attacks and the vast majority of murders that are racially and ethnically motivated are carried out by white supremacist groups. The facts and numbers dont lie. Host if you are on our twitter feed is asking about your consideration of antifa, would you classify them as a terrorist group . There no, but i will say is increasing violence on the left. The president spoke about , its not anntifa organization, its not a Foreign Organization or a foreign terrorist organization. We have a designation process with the state department and other relevant parties. We do not have the legal structure to designate antifa. I know the callers are concerned about this, there is violence on the farleft, we have a polarized society, people are taking up weapons to fight for their cause. But you cannot compare the violence on the far left to the violence on the far right,. Heres no comparison host when it comes to hate groups that talk about the United States, we talk about how other groups are outside the United States, whats being done by the federal government to track whats being done in the United States. Guest the fbi and coronation with local and state Law Enforcement tracks these groups. They collect information and intelligence on them. They disrupt plots and they have disrupted plots from the left to the right in this country. We have our own intelligence capability inside the United States. The fbi needs that. The joint Terrorism Task forces, with good coronation across Law Enforcement work in this country. I want to reassure, to some we are looking at these threats across the political spectrum. There is a fusion task force in the fbi to do this, there are huge numbers and it is very difficult to do this, given the commission the conditions. Host Tom Sanderson is joining us, looking at securing matter since 9 11. You can call and ask questions on 202 7488000 if you are in the eastern and central time zone. 202 7488001 in the mountain and pacific time zone. We are going up to that moment when we come 8 46, out we will continue that conversation. Wayne, pennsylvania, you are with our guest. Caller the clown that just about what about the virus from china, that shows the ignorance of the republicans. Thats just what i wanted to say. That burned me up. You keep on doing a fine job, you know more than a lot of people do and you have people out there host and what would you like to ask our guest specifically . Caller i just want to complement him. I think hes doing a good job. Hes a great guest. , in lets go to lorraine it, new york. Aller hello mr. Sanderson i am a licensed clinical social worker, i work in a small town in upstate new york. I have had several sets of parents very concerned about their sons, usually, being involved in white supremacist things on their computers, and some going off to college and seeming to be pretty involved with some kind of a group. I wondered if you had any advice for these parents, and or curriculums that you think are cutting edge that might help this country with this issue. Thank you. Guest thank you lorraine, thank you for your work as a social worker. Thats incredibly important. Parents detecting this kind of emerging extremism, whether it is islam or white supremacist extremism, its critical and they need to act quickly. Once these young men get inside these groups, you can spread out the blame and the responsibilities. Individual actors cannot do that but in a group you are more likely to have groupthink and engage in more violence. Its very difficult to extract someone from that. If you think there is a criminal level of behavior in terms of planning, the police have to be contacted. Thats very difficult for a parent to do for their own son. But certainly engaging them with a counselor, such as yourself, or another adult figure, or even gangng member an ex member would help. I dont have the same training you do so i cannot offer a clinical or more formal suggestion. But i will say that we have established in this country, counter violent extremism programs in communities over the last decade. Asse were not looked upon serious programs by the current administration. Backeeds to be brought for the full spectrum of actors for those being radicalized. This is a threat that needs to be i wont say nipped in the bud because its past that stage. But it needs to be approached swiftly and strongly. Host we have heard about this idea around pushback against that . Guest some social Media Companies have done a better job of filtering out those groups, statements, videos, and pictures that glorify violence against others. Thats critical. I will note that isis at its height, when it controlled territory in syria the size of new jersey, it was putting up 90,000 messages, videos, images every day. They were simply unstoppable. Social media has been a huge force multiplier for all extremist groups. 8chan, twitter, facebook, youtube, signal, those cameatsapp after 9 11. Al qaeda was distributing sermons on cd and tapes after 9 11 but you can get anything, as we heard from lorraine with these young sons looking at material online. Anybody with an Internet Connection can look at this as i saidthis is earlier, the most profound change in the nature of the threat is social media. Host for groups outside the United States, when it comes to leadership, is it centralized, decentralized . After 9 11, especially after osama bin laden, sometimes there was decentralized leadership, how does that work . Guest it clearly decentralized. There is a leader for both of those groups, but the organization is able to operate to a large degree independently in the areas that they dominate in west africa, east africa, central africa, europe, the middle east, here in particular but also iraq and south asia where you have Senior Leadership. Taking out the top leadership is a good thing to do, but its a very perishable benefit. It only lasts for a few days, generally, then there is a new leader at the top. Its critical to pursue these groups worldwide. If not believed that taking out this guy or bin laden is the endall. Its not. Our next caller is from washington, d. C. Guest i can hear you anita. Caller thank you for helping to keep us safe. I agree what you are saying as premises,te rings the and trump is aggravating this issue. You have peaceful protesters, they are mad, they have a right to be mad, but trump is inciting all of these particular things going on. They have different people ,hrowing bombs, they are white or supremacy, undercover. Trump is the issue. Host lets let our guest respond. Guest anita brings up a good point. The president has instigated and irritated this issue. He says theres no issue with propagating nationalists. And he has certainly made the problem more serious, theres no doubt about that. There are callers who will be angry about that, but look at the statements. This benefits him politically. Host would you go as far as saying these things would not happen if the president was not a factor . Guest these things were already happening prior to President Trump getting in there. But he has made the situation worse with his statements. Ohio. George, in richwood, go ahead. Caller i would like to say thank you for your service. Theust calling Political Division in our country is so bad. I put yard signs up, i am a barden i am a biden supporter. People take them down when i am asleep. People were throwing stuff at my house. , go down where i live in ohio where i live and the county i live, its a big trump supporting county. They support their signs and everything and people leave them alone. Anybody putting up a biden sign has trouble. People are so divided and so hostile if you are a democrat in this place. Its unbelievable. But anyway. Incitingr. Trump is this violence by the things that he says. I cant understand why he does this. But its really dividing our country to a point where badence is getting to be so that people are going to have to take up arms to protect themselves. That is what is worrying me about this country and the way it is going. Im a veteran, i served during the vietnam war, i cannot believe the things going on that in this country. And that you fought for. Guest george, thank you. Those are poignant and profound words. Thank you for serving in vietnam and for your continued patriotism. Nobody should be defacing biden or trump signs. Americans should be able to put their political beliefs on their front lawn. They should not be defaced, removed, or otherwise damaged. I hate to hear that. I have seen the same thing when i travel around the country. Thats incredibly unfortunate. Host nancy, in altoona, pennsylvania. We see some people gathering for some events, joe biden among ase, we will look at that nancy gives her thoughts from altoona, pennsylvania. Caller good morning. My thoughts are, i can remember so plainly working at the hospital. How time stopped when 9 11 happened. Cringe, a feeling that came over you when the second plane hit and you knew it was not an accident. I feel this so many times every day with whats called the peaceful protest doing and the help keeprds used to the violence going in our country. Hear thatvery time i looting is in the background if you happen to catch whats going on with peaceful socalled peaceful protesting. Its very hard to think that this is our america. This gentleman that called in with the signs that you cannot put a biden sign out without getting ripped up. Ourselves,ink for thats what americans are supposed to do, but we are supposed to do it in the right way. When you used to get stopped by a policeman, if they put their gun up because they did not know how you were going to react, even to a traffic violation, you put your hands up. You did what you were told we had you did not run. Host thank you. Mr. Sanderson, go ahead. Guest the countries in awful shape. Nancy points out some elements of that. So many people are marginalized, its very polarized, i feel awful about it. I will say, a friend of mine has who wouldut people never consider getting a gun feel so insecure that they want to get a gun. This is awful and we need better leadership to bring the country together and not use divisive language. Host stay with us, we are seeing people gathering at the new york ceremony, joe biden amongst them with Vice President pence on site as well. We will let people experience this for just a couple of seconds. [indistinct murmuring] [indistinct murmuring] host there is the Vice President , amongst others at the memorial in new york. We will go to our next call, from fort washington, maryland. We are a bit short on time, but go ahead. , iler this is my comment to the word terrorist when you refer to the region of the religion of islam. White ku klux klan christians when you refer to the most notorious group in america. Can you stop doing that . We know that most of the people who are ignorant of the religion fighting. Are still host lets let our guest respond. Caller thank you. Theres no doubt that these are fringe actors within the religion, whether you are talking about christians within the white supremacist movement, or islamist extremist that are violent that are purporting to act in the name of islam. They are extremist, they dont speak for the religion and they are outside the mainstream for sure. All of these actors who claim to , to benely sanctioned acting in the name of christianity or judaism or islam are not representatives of that religion, for sure. We arereg, from indiana, really short on time, go ahead. Ago, there wast a concern that people would be better armed. As a democrat, being armed seems to be appropriate at this time. There are increasing gun sales which is directly proportional. O the increasing violence im a democrat that will be voting for trump. Host mr. Sanderson. Guest you might feel better prepared because you might have trained, the people who have mentioned to me and my example that they want to get a gun have no training. It did not take a long time to get trained, but the idea of more and more americans were untrained getting guns out of fear i dont think is good trend. So, butst a minute or lets talk a little about this issue of cybersecurity as a form of concern. Where are we on that considering what we know . Guest we have much better capability to detect cyber and online threats if youre are talking about nonstate actors. But the capability and the locationo change their , their tactics, their tools on the adversary side is much better, because they are not bound by the same rules of our intelligence agencies and Law Enforcement agencies. While we do have much better capabilities, the adversary does as well. For every measure there is a countermeasure and it has been very difficult to keep pace with those who are nefarious, whether we are talking about dark web criminals or violent extremists in the political and religious movements that we have referenced here already. Very difficult on the cybersecurity front. Host we are about to go to those moment of silent events ing lace the u. S. Capitol taking place in the u. S. Capitol. If you are interested in watching whats going on in new york you can do so on cspan2 and follow along on our website as well. Heres the information that you can follow. A moment of silence taking place in just a few minutes. We will show you the sights and sounds and resume our conversation with Tom Sanderson. Guest when we come back we need to address state rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air, gave proof through the night, that our flag was still there. Star oh say, does that star bangles starspangled banner yet wave, free,he land of the brave andf the the home of the brave . Knelled]ing, thrice 11 two planesr that at 8 46 on september 11, 2020, please join us as we observe the National Observance and remembrance by serving in a quiet moment of silence. [reading names] host ceremonies from new york city and the u. S. Capitol, moments of silence being observed in both locations. If you want to follow youre watching cspan, your unfiltered view of government, created by americas Television Companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Cspans washington journal, every day. We are taking your calls live on the are on the news of the day and discussing policy issues that impact you. Coming up saturday morning, a look at political extremism in andu. S. With Author University of massachusetts professor, on right wing extremism, and the university of pittsburgh professor looks at antifa and leftwing extremism. Watch washington journal saturday morning. Sure to join with your phone calls, facebook messages, tweets and comments. Our campaigning and debating. Cspan, your unfiltered view of politics. We take you live to portland, maine, where republican senator Susan Collins and u. S. Senate candidates sara gideon dme , max linn ime and lisa savage ime participate. 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