Transcripts For CSPAN The Contenders George McGovern 20240712

I have a public plan, and as one whose heart has ached for the past eight years over the agony of vietnam, i will halt the senseless bombing of indochina on inaugural day. [applause] greta it was 1972, 2 30 in the morning when George Mcgovern delivered his acceptance speech. A few months later, he would lose badly to president Richard Nixon. The contenders. The candidacy and legacy of George Mcgovern. We are live from the mcgovern museum in mitchell, south dakota. Joining us from there is president ial author scott farris. Acceptance speech in miami. Why . Scott thank you, greta. Of the structure of the Mcgovern Campaign. Against the establishment. Senator mcgovern, he was very, very strong on the issue of vietnam. One of the things that has drawn me to writing about senator mcgovern as one of the most who ran for the presidency who was not successful, he went after the vietnam issue. He spoke about that war in ways no president ial candidate had ever spoken about war before. It was language as you heard that was mild compared to what i it was Strong Language that unsettled lots of americans and caused them to worry about how he would win the war. The war. Insurgent campaign to end the war against the established democrats. There was a lot of conflict there that eventually lead over bled over into the convention. There were some floor fights, there were some issues with the california delegation. There were issues with who he would select for his Vice President ial running mate. The convention got out of hand for him so when it was time to discuss his nomination, it was 2 30 in the morning. So he missed an opportunity instead of speaking before , 75 million americans, he only spoke to about 15 million americans in the wee hours of the morning. He joked they were either insomniacs or people who fell asleep in front of the tv set. Greta we are going to do a deep dive into the 1972 campaign and the convention. Joining us here from our studios first, in washington is Jules Witcover, a veteran political reporter, columnist who covered the Mcgovern Campaign for the Los Angeles Times. Featured prominently in the book the boys on the bus about the media campaign, or the Media Coverage of that campaign. So, mr. Witt cover what is the , atmosphere at the convention in 1972 . Jules exhaustion. Greta exhaustion. [laughter] jules mcgovern gave the speech so late because fights continued to go on over various issues on the platform including the war in vietnam even though the platform had been adopted. It actually played out the next morning when the staff met to choose a Vice President or to decide who should be cast to be Vice President. Asked to be Vice President. It was done in a very hurried and unsettling way to the point that the confusion led, and i am sure we will get to it in this discussion led to probably the most disastrous part of the Mcgovern Campaign, which was the selection of the Vice President ial nominee who did not stand up. Greta but in the Convention Hall that night, are the people with him . Are they still there . It is 2 30 in the morning. Jules oh yes. Because you know the mcgovern , followers at the convention, many had never been to a convention before. As a result of new roles in the selection of delegates, importantly initiated and developed by mcgovern himself on a commission, you have a lot of people there who had never been to any convention, had never been involved much in politics before then. So it was a great experience for them. At any convention, staying up until 2 00 in the morning is not unusual anyway. Greta right. Jules but what was unusual is that mcgovern gave that very important speech so early in the morning. Greta we will talk about that the reforms led to those people at the convention. But scott farris, lets go back to the mcgovern museum in mitchell, south dakota. What is happening in our country in that leads to the triumph of 1972, an antiwar candidate to win the nomination for the Democratic Party . Scott the great political legacy of George Mcgovern is that he quite literally changed the complexion of the modern Democratic Party. Before mcgovern, the democrats built their base around what was called the new Deal Coalition, an amalgam of urban catholics and jews and organized labor. And southern white populists. But by 1968, 1972, because of divisions that were exposed by the division over vietnam, senator mcgovern was one of those in the Democratic Party who thought the party badly needed to reform or else it was going to die. He saw the party was losing southern white populists who are becoming southern white republicans over the issue of civil rights. He saw urban ethics were moving out to the suburbs and saw that organized labor was shrinking in influence and size. He looked over the Political Landscape and saw opportunities for growth by reaching out for minority groups that had been ignored by both parties. Such as hispanic americans. Reaching out to women who had previously voted strongly the republican side. Reaching out to the youth vote. 1972, because of the 26 amendment the first time , was the first time 18yearolds could vote in the United States. He put together the new Politics Coalition to create with the new Deal Coalition this , ruling democratic majority. So coming out the 1968 convention, as mr. Whitcover mentioned, he chaired a commission on reform, changing the delegate Selection Process heavily. He was very proactive in bringing women and minorities into the party. The winners are also losers. Organized labor resented that their influence was going to diminish. It was a very wild ride because of the reforms mcgovern was able to put through the party. Along with his commission. He had the advantage of an insurgent, upsetting the preferred establishment candidate, the one who had been considered a favorite. Ed muskie humphreys running mate , in 1968. That caught him off guard. This copy establishment off this caught the establishment off guard. As this built up, it caused a lot of tension. It was a very tumultuous year for the Democratic Party in 1972, even as the republicans were solidifying around Richard Nixon. And probably the high point of the nixon presidency was 1972 the year he famously he went to china among other things. Greta we will talk more about that later on in the program. Part of senator mcgoverns acceptance speech on that night in 1972 was about reforming the Democratic Party. He also takes aim at the Republican Party and what they are doing at their convention, which is being held shortly after the democrats, also in miami. Take a look. [applause] sen. Mcgovern we have had our fury and frustrations in this in these past months and at this convention. But frankly, i welcome the contrast with the smug and dull and empty event which will doubtless take place in miami here next month. [applause] sen. Mcgovern we chose this struggle. We reformed our party. And we let the people in. [applause] and so we stand today, not as a collection of backroom strategists, not as a tool of itt or any other special interest. [applause] greta scott farris, George Mcgovern in 1972, saying we let the people in. Take us back to the 1968 convention when Hubert Humphrey gets the nomination. And draw a clear connection for our viewers between the 1968 convention and mcgovern winning then in 1972. Scott greta, lets go back even to 1967, because this is when the Antiwar Movement is starting to pick up steam. They are very frustrated that president Lyndon Johnson is maintaining the course in vietnam and believes america can achieve an outright military victory in vietnam. So the antiwar activist starts shopping for an alternative to johnson. Someone who can challenge johnson in the primaries, which is really unprecedented. When you think about prior to 1968 when a party tried to challenge a sitting president of its own members was 1912, when you had the former president , theodore roosevelt, challenging a sitting president , even a former president could not knock off a sitting president for the nomination. They wanted to pressure johnson to quickly end the war and deescalate vietnam. They search for a number of people and they approached senator mcgovern, and he declined. Senator mccarthy of minnesota decided to run as an antiwar candidate. When he entered the New Hampshire primary in 1968, he surprised the political world by having a very strong showing against johnson. He did not win, but he got enough of the votes that it made johnson aware he would have a tough time getting the renomination. So johnson decided to withdraw from the race. In the meantime, senator Robert Kennedy, president kennedys brother, also entered the president ial contest. They were both going after it, and Vice President Hubert Humphrey decided to enter to carry the standard for the johnson administration. And at that point, Vice President humphrey still supported the war policies of president johnson. It was again what outraged senator kennedy senator kennedy of course was assassinated in june. And so that really left only senator mccarthy to be the insurgent candidate. Senator kennedys followers urged senator mcgovern to enter basically as a token candidate at the end. There is a lot of bad blood between the kennedy and mccarthy forces. Mcgovern did run a token presidency. Ultimately, the nomination went to Hubert Humphrey, which infuriated the reformers in the Antiwar Movement. Not only has senator humphrey not won a single primary, he did not enter a single primary. It was evidence to the the insurgents that the Democratic Party was still being run by the big city political bosses, by the political machines, and they wanted to have the process more open, to have underrepresented constituencies like women, like minorities, like the young, brought into the process. They wanted the entire process opened up so was not in caucuses sometimes held amo secretly in peoples homes, but widely advertised so anybody could participate. The disillusion with how Hubert Humphrey was selected in 1968 put pressure on the Democratic Party to reform. In trying to appease the insurgents, humphrey suggested reforms to the party. That was the background. It was really the humphrey nomination that outraged the reformers and caused them to demand fundamental change. Greta ok lets stick to the 1968 convention. Jules, your covering it. What is the mood like at the convention . 1968 what is happening inside and outside the hall . Jules it was a much more tumultuous convention than the 1972 convention because the party itself was so divided over the war and personalities. That is the year in which there were riots in the streets of chicago, the Police Department repressed them to the point that it was called a police riot. There was a big fight over a vietnam plank that the antiwar forces lost but generated tremendous heat. And it continued through the convention. Even after the nomination of humphrey, i remember humphrey was a very sad figure, and in his own supposedly celebratory moment. Because he knew what was going on out in the street, and out on the floor of the convention. There was so much criticism of him and of continuing the war. So that was, in my experience, the most disruptive, but also the most exciting convention in my time. Greta yeah, and compare how humphrey was chosen as the nominee in 1968 to four years later the way mcgovern is chosen as the nominee. Jules a lot of it had to do with the mcgovern reform rules. In 1968, delegates were selected largely as they had been for years by appointment of party , bosses, governors. And if you were a party official, you got a free ticket to the 1968 convention by nature of your influence or your official position as an Office Holder or as a party holder or Office Holder. In 1972, those people who wanted to get to the convention had to actually run as delegates, supporting one of the primary candidates. A lot of them picked the wrong horse in 1972, because they supported ed muskie, the establishment candidate, and he had all of those officeholders pulling for him. But when his campaign disintegrated, they were all left out of the Convention Hall. So, many new people had never been to a convention before, they filled the seats of the high and mighty who went to the convention in 1968. Greta Jules Witcover, covering the 1968 and 1972 conventions for the Los Angeles Times. Here, as part of our contenders series here in washington to help us uncover , George Mcgovern, our 13th contender in our 14 week series. Back at the mcgovern museum is south dakota is scott farris, president ial author. He wrote about mcgoverns campaign in 1972. There are going to take your questions and your comments tonight. We will get to your phone calls in a little bit. Eastern central time, if you live in that area, 2027370001. Mountainpacific time, call 2027370002. Scott farris, let me go back to the reforms that were headed by George Mcgovern. How did he get involved in the mcgovernfraser commission . Scott well, as mr. Witt cover mentioned, there was chaos in 1968. Humphrey closed the gap on nixon toward the end of 1968. It was a very close campaign. So you have the regulars thinking that we came close and with we hadnt had all this agitation we would be fine. The insurgents said this was the last gasp of a dying political machine. Humphrey was anxious to try to unite the party. He decided to throw a bone to the insurgents by appointing a commission on delegate selection reform. As they looked to figure out who was the proper guide for the chair, they needed to look for several qualifications. One, did they have credibility with the insurgents . Had they picked a regular it , would have been viewed as a sham, but they also wanted somebody who was loyal to the party, who had shown they can also work with the regulars. Mcgovern unlike mccarthy and some folks had also been considered for this position. Mcgovern had actively campaigned for humphrey. He was always a loyal democrat and never broke from the party. The third thing they were looking for is they were worried that people would view this as a way to manipulate the process to ensure the nomination. Everyone was so sure George Mcgovern would not be a viable president ial candidate in 1972, he seemed like the obvious choice because he could not manipulate the system to benefit his candidacy because his candidacy was such a long shot and not even worth discussing. And so he was appointed to the commission to be the chair. There were about two dozen members. People say, how were they able to push these reforms through . The way they were able to do that, the people who would most likely be opposed to reform, particularly organized labor, boycotted the entire process. And so the Reform Commission was really dominated by those who were intent on opening up the process, while the old regulars, particularly organized labor did , not think it was worth bothering with. They did not think anything would come of it. Greta so what were the actual reforms . What did they say . Scott walt they began the process by encouraging most states use primaries as opposed , to caucuses to choose their convention delegates. Then if you did have a caucus, you are required to make it open and wellpublicized and publicly available. Mr. Witcover mentioned a lot of time previously if you were a party official, you automatically had a chance to be a delegate. A lot of time those Party Delegates would name others. Where they would get proxy votes and pick whoever they wanted to take and sometimes the decision was made a year before the convention so they tried to open up the process generally to make it more responsive and more butter responsive. They also tried to do away with that winner take all formatted primaries to make a proportional, to give minority candidates and insurgent candidates a better chance to build steam and overtake an establishment candidate in the long run. Most controversially, i suppose, is they decided on instead of a passive approach of no discrimination against anybody who would like to be a delegate, they adopted a very proactive that the delegations had to reflect the makeup of the States Parties by gender, ethnicity, race, age. They were trying to get more women, more minorities, and more youth into the process. And for mcgovern, they said the party should civilly strive for reasonable proportion, reasonable representation of those groups. After he left and a different chair took over, they adopted a specific quota that the that each delegation should be half female and minorities that are equal to the states population. Those were the basic gist of reforms by the commission. Greta scott farris, do those reforms stick today . Scott they very much do. What is interesting they were , derided by conservatives and republicans as a quota system, that democrats were taking this quota and adding it as an affirmative action program. But ultimately but parties have , adopted these reforms. Primaries are now preferred over caucuses. If they are caucuses, they are widely publicized. And even though the republicans have been less successful reaching out to minority voters if you go to a republican , convention, 50 of the delegates are going to be female. And nobody thinks that that was is odd at all. That was a radical idea back in 1968. That has come up through today. Let me give you a couple of quick numbers to give you a sense of how things change. In 1968, only 13 of the democratic delegates were women. In 1972, 40 were women. In the 1968 convention, 5 or six per second were africanamerican and in 1972, 12 to 13 were africanamerican. There was an almost instantaneous change in terms of what the party looks like, and it was very dramatic. Greta and so, scott farris, the impact today, is there a longterm impact . We are heading into the 2012 president ial elections with the iowa caucus coming up soon. Scott indeed. I think it is very harmonic. Very ironic. Help the nonestablishment what reforms do is theyhelp the nonestablishment candidates get a foothold. Because it is an open process where if you have good ground game and a lot of dedicated volunteers who will show up at caucuses and particularly primaries, you can overcome disadvantages in terms of endorsements and money. As republicans have followed suit and it doesnt look like president obama will get a challenger in the 2012 process. But in the 2012 republican process this year is i believe the first year that the republicans will have no winner take all primaries. So an insurgent candidate as Newt Gingrich is filling that role this year, is to get a leg up over the establishment candidate which mitt romney has been fulfilling that role. The irony is Newt Gingrich is benefiting from reforms first initiated by George Mcgovern back in 1972. These reforms are broadening participation, not just the democrats. They have involved both parties. Greta senator gary hart was George Mcgoverns 1972 Campaign Manager. Here is what he had to say about the senators democratic primary reform efforts. [video clip] sen. Hart i think history will show that he helped save the Democratic Party simply by chairing the mcgovern Reform Commission. But by his insistence on the Democratic Party once again truly becoming a Democratic Party. Because of his efforts and the efforts of many of you, the convention in 1972, as interesting, shall we say, as it was [laughter] helped save the Democratic Party and helped open the doors for young people, for women, for minorities, and for people who until that time had been shut out. Now it is fashionable for people , to say there is not much difference between the parties, but there really is. There is a necessity for a Democratic Party and the kind of Democratic Party George Mcgovern envisioned and helped create. Greta Jules Witcover, what is your reaction to hearing him , gary hart talk about the , reforms . Jules he is correct. Mcgoverns role was a critical role. I go back to before 1968. I can remember in 1960 when john kennedy was running. He and his aide, and speech writer ted sorensen, who recently passed away. Just the two of them would get on an airplane and fly around and visit governors and mayors who were so empowered, that you could pick up the nomination that way. Retail not with the people but with the officials and the politicians. Greta and so, Jules Witcover, for you covering these conventions what was it like to , see these new faces in 1972 and Going Forward . Jules it was very exciting, because the people were into it. More than some of the old politicians who had been to 20 or 30 conventions over their lifetime. They had their hands on the levers and they knew it was going to happen. There was an element of uncertainty that was injected by these new people, not only in voting for the nominee, but in the Platform Committee hearings, Credential Committee hearings and so on, that preceded the actual selection of the president ial nominee. Greta scott farris, let me ask you about the shortterm impact of these reforms. Lets go to the general election real briefly if we could in 1972. The reforms that he puts in place, do they actually benefit him though when it comes to voter turnout to beat Richard Nixon . Scott it helped him to get the nomination. He understood because he chaired the Reform Commission and had several staffers working on his campaign, he understood the process. I do not think he tried to manipulate it to his own benefit. He was always trying to be open and fair about it. He understood that something had fundamentally changed in the election process, and was able to take advantage of it in terms of winning the nomination. Whereas muskie and some of the others were playing by the old rules and were caught offguard. In the general election it did not help them because these to constituencies still were not matured. Senator mcgovern only got 37. 5 of the popular vote in the general election. It just showed that democrats had not yet won over women. They had not yet reached, got the youth vote the way they have today. If you look at todays Democratic Party, it has had a lasting impact. If you look at the coalition that mcgovern put together in 1972, women, minorities, the young, highly educated voters. That is the coalition that gave barack obama the presidency in 2008. With 53 of the vote. Just as the Barry Goldwater candidacy in 1964 was said to have led to the Ronald Reagan presidency in 1980. I think you can give George Mcgovern quite a bit of credit for the Barack Obama Presidency in 2008. It just took longer for that constituency to melt and become a governing majority. It just wasnt ready in 1972. Greta tonights contenders, George Mcgovern, the congressman and senator from south dakota, and the democratic Nominee Party for president in 1972. Our first call is from mike in poughkeepsie, new york. Hello. Mcgovern became the head of the middle east policy council after deciding not to run for presidency again in 1992. And with this he submitted as a , proposal to president clinton calling on the United States to protect access to middle east oil, arabian oil. Did president clinton accept the proposal . If so, what happened as evidence as an effect of it . Greta a pretty specific question. Scott farris and Jules Witcover all are here shaking their heads. They dont know how to answer that right. Scott farris, his legacy . Scott he certainly was very interested in middle east affairs. He met with yasser arafat. Of the palestinian authority. He was always interested in trying to help broker a peace agreement. President clinton did not accept that early on. Of course, president clinton at the end of his presidency made a herculean effort to try to make that happen. But senator mcgovern got quite a bit of grief for using phrases like evenhanded treatment in the middle east. He was a very strong supporter of israel but also was very outspoken in american politics in terms of palestinian rights. Greta we are going to be talking more about mcgoverns post 1972 convention life, his legacy, and efforts across the world, specifically on hunger. First, lets hear from gorden in peoria, illinois. Caller i was a College Student and voted for mcgovern as a 20yearold. Later on, hearing the things of the nixon groups and their dirty tricks, i saw a program where donald sick reggie claimed that they chose mcgovern as the weakest link and for their dirty and through their dirty tricks discredited other Democratic Candidates making it easier for mcgovern to get the nomination. And that republicans literally chose him. Greta Jules Witcover, do you want to weigh in on that . Jules it is certainly true that in the 1972 campaign, there were cigarette he was involved in a number of dirty tricks that were aimed at muskie. Muskie was the front runner at the time. I dont think it was so much in terms of setting up for mcgovern, because mcgovern had asked the beginning of that year, was such a long shot that it really would have required clairvoyance on the part of people to set a policy that would make him the nominee. It was more that they wanted to get rid of muskie. The nixon people thought he was the toughest candidate. They did a number of things, including spreading word in New Hampshire, which had a very, very heavy frenchcanadian population, that he used certain slur words, slurring the frenchcanadians. And also, they had another scheme whereby they had a , the Nixon Campaign and cigarette tea, had a number of black voters call, in new york accents, urging people to vote for muskie, assuming that would be backlash against muskie. These things all came out. But they real were not the reason muskie did not get the nomination. Ask you campaign had problems that were just as troublesome for him and for mcgoverns. Greta we will talk more about muskie during the general election of the primaries 1971 and the general election in 1972. First we need to peel back a little bit and talk about, why George Mcgovern would run in the first place. Scott farris, what makes him decide to run for the presidency in 1972 . Scott it goes back to 1968 when he filled in for Bobby Kennedy and was the standard therefore the standardbearer for his delegates because they wanted him to be a stand in for kennedy. He ended up participating in a debate for the california delegation between Hubert Humphrey and mccarthy and himself. Everyone thought mcgovern had won that debate. It was that moment that he realized he had president ial aspirations because he had gone on a National Stage between two against two of the leading democrats in the country and more than held his own. So he began considering a run at that point and decided fairly early in 1969 that he would be a candidate. That he felt he was the right person to bring together these old regulars and the new insurgents and create a democratic majority. And he also, personally just despised Richard Nixon. Mcgovern have always rejected the construct of the cold war. He really detested red baiters. When he ran for the senate in 1960 who ran against a guy in south dakota who was a wellknown anticommunist. He had always despised him for how he had run against Adlai Stevenson in 1952. And in 1956 as eisenhowers Vice President ial nominee. So he really relished the fight and it was a great incentive for him to run. Greta in vietnam what is happening between 19681972 on that issue . Scott nixon said in 1968 he had a secret plan to end the war in vietnam. That turned out to be escalating the war in 1969 and 1970, most famously by having u. S. Troops invade cambodia and try to disrupt supply lines. Front North Vietnam to the vietcong in the south. So early in the nixon presidency, the war was escalating. It seemed to be expanding, not winding down. Of course, this really outraged the Antiwar Movement and gave mcgovern even more impetus to want to run against nixon. Later as it came closer to the election, nixon understood he needed to start disengaging american troops and going through the process of what he called vietnamization of the war. So that by 1972, there were only a couple hundred thousand combat troops in vietnam. At that point. But as mcgovern was making the decision to run, he thought nixon was escalating the war, not winding it down. Greta and Jules Witcover, in 1971, the pentagon papers or first published. What is the impact of this . Jules actually the pentagon papers were not as revealing as they were said to be. A lot of things in the pentagon papers were known. It gave more credibility to what was at the time nixons public a very mixed public feeling about the protest against the vietnam war. I think the impression now is that the country was totally in uproar against the war in vietnam in the late 1960s. It really was not. It was very much split. Greta you have the 1970 antiwar protests, the kent state shootings, those kinds of things. Jules yes, but even before that you have these strong protests that nixon played very effectively on. There were just as many people who deplored the mess in the streets, the pictures of these wildlooking young people with their long hair, strange clothes. They offended mainstream america. Main street america or mainstream america. So, the war was particularly effective with dealing with the democratic situation. Because it was a rallying point for voters and activists. But nixon also made great use of reaction to the war by making very slanderous remarks against people who demonstrated. And so on. And he ran in 1968 and again in 1972 on a law and order agenda. He was going to protect the American People from these rowdies who were starting fires and having rallies in the streets. So, that is why the war it is painted now that the vietnam war really built the protest. It did do that, but it also solidified opposition to the war to the advantage of Richard Nixon. Greta and so, scott farris, all of this and the impact of the war on mcgovern what did it do . Scott i think it caused him to lose perspective a little bit, to be honest. Going back to what i started out with. He was so horrified by the war and thought it was such a terrible mistake. He had made several trips to vietnam and had seen soldiers would lost limbs and crippled for life, as well as of tens of thousands who died. He spoke again about the war in terms that were very strong, harsh, and uncompromising. He gave a famous speech before the u. S. Senate in 1970 and said this chamber reeks of blood. And when you use that kind of language, it will get peoples attention. It may energize the antiwar folks, but it just quiets a lot of voters who thought that he would withdraw american without any honor and maybe not worry about what would happen to the prisoners of war there. He was so passionate about war, he used the strongest possible language to describe it. He also wanted to give the American People a sense we had ownership of this war. They were partly culpable. This was not just the fault of the president and the generals. This was american society, that we could not see what was wrong in vietnam. I think it hurt him. I think it hurt him. Politically, ultimately, certainly in the general election, because americans do not really want to hear their country and the military spoken about that way, and of course it gave the democrats an image of being antimilitary they had been trying to shake for several decades. Greta and scott farris, this was a motivation for running for president . Scott absolutely. His desire to win the war with the most important thing for him. When he did lose he said, i feel so strongly about this war that if we brought peace one day closer to this campaign was worth it. He felt very passionately that this was the wrong war. He thought vietnam was a mistake. Had fought in a war himself. He thought it was an anticolonial war. He thought the u. S. Had misunderstood it as a war of communist expansion. A war of communist expansion. Greta the Mcgovern Campaign hired a documentary filmmaker, Charles Guggenheim, to create a series of short films about the candidate. As we turn to still the story of young mcgovern heres a brief , look at the guggenheim film. [video] narrator he was christened George Stanley mcgovern. Birthplace avon, south dakota. He grew up in mitchell and went to school there. But the most important lessons were learned at home. From his mother, a gentle spirit. From his father, christian principles and hard work. His father had spent his boyhood in the illinois coal country, where the 14hour days were measured out at 10 cents a bucket. But he found time to read the scriptures and decided to abandon the mines for the pulpit. In 1899, he was ordained a minister. Reverend mcgovern built his last church in mitchell when george was five. As a boy, george had his fathers love of history, but he would not be spared the troubles of his own time. [wind howling] the memory would remain with him all his life. Greta scott farris, back in mitchell, south dakota at the mcgovern museum. Tell us about George Mcgovern. What through his life, starting early on influenced him, defines him . Scott first of all, it is important to remember his father was a minister in the wesleyan methodist denomination. Is a very strict denomination of the methodist church. It was a sect that discourage drinking and dancing and going to movies. What George Mcgovern got from his father was a strong sense of what is right and what is wrong to the point that he is often accused of not being moral, but moralistic. Even a little bit selfrighteous. He got the notion of right and wrong and the notion of doing good. He read a lot about the social gospel, how you apply christianity to public affairs. So you feed the hungry etc. ,he also was a very shy child, which would later at influence him. He had some teachers who at first thought he perhaps even had a learning disability and was slow. But a couple teachers realized he was a very intelligent lad, just very shy. They forced him to read aloud in class, do more things in public. When he got to high school, he had a very influential teacher, bob pearson, who was his history and social studies teacher and debate coach and he encouraged George Mcgovern to go out for debate. It turned out mcgovern was an exceptional debater. He won an upper of state meets and won a scholarship to go to wesleyan. He and his team won some national competitions. That Early Childhood formed him sothat Early Childhood formed him in terms of becoming a , public figure. He cared a lot. He was a good communicator, a good speaker, make good arguments, but also cared a lot about moral principles and public policy. Greta and then world war ii. Scott yes, he had a teacher who wanted influence in one or he two. Had a gym teacher that told mcgovern to jump over a vaulting horse. The teacher said he was a physical coward. That really stung mcgovern. He thought about it for a number of years. He said when he was at dakota wesleyan, a classmate said he would like him to take flying lessons. If i get 10 guys together we can get a discount mcgovern said he was afraid to fly, but he remembered what the gym teacher had said years before and decided to take pilot lessons. He became a certified pilot. When japan bombed pearl harbor, mcgovern and his friends drove down to omaha and enlisted in the army air corps. He became a pilot of b24 bombers. He was stationed in italy. He flew 35 combat missions, which is what you were required to fly before you could go home. He was an exceptionally skilled pilot. He was very much admired by his crew of 10. The b24 was a hard plane to fly. He had on three occasions emergency landings. It was ray it was very risky but every time he got his crew home safely and for that, he was awarded the distinguished flying cross. Later in life after he developed a friendship with historian stephen ambrose, ambrose wrote the wild blue which was a chronicle of the mcgovern experience as a way to highlight the air war during war ii. Greta how does it define him in his president ial candidacy . Scott he initially thought he was going to be a teacher he initially thought is going to be a minister. He came back from the war and completed his undergraduate education and entered the seminary thinking that he would follow in his fathers footsteps. He discovered the only thing he liked was giving sermons. He found the sacraments and the parish visits just were not up his alley. He switched to history, got a doctorate degree. From northwestern. He along with Woodrow Wilson is one of only two men with phds who were nominated for president. He had professors at northwestern who gave him background in regard to especially Eastern Europe that led him to believe the cold war construct was all wrong. That the soviet union was not attempting world domination, but was simply protecting its traditional sphere of influence, as it had done with imperial russia. He was going to be a professor, but he was also very interested in politics. He got her act of the 1952 stevenson campaign, Adlai Stevenson here in south dakota. He started writing letters to the editor and guest editorial and he caught the eye of state democrats who asked if he would be interested in becoming the executive secretary of the south dakota Democratic Party. Now the democrats in south dakota at that point were in bad sad shape. There were 110 legislators in south dakota in two were 1953. Democrats. It was quite a challenge. Mcgovern thought it was a challenge worth taking. He slowly built up the Democratic Party. He went out and recruited party workers, candidates, raised money, wrote platforms and speeches. The democrats got 24 seats in 1954. In 1956, mcgovern party he then helped build up and ran for congress. He defeated a twoterm republican. He won again in 1958 when he defeated a former south dakota governor. Then in 1960, he made his first bid for the United States senate. He lost losing to longtime senator from south dakota. So, john kennedy felt that perhaps his candidacy had brought mcgovern down in south dakota, so he offered mcgovern a position to run a program in the kennedy administration. To run the food for Peace Program. Greta and so, we are talking about George Mcgoverns legacy, his candidacy. We are going to delve into the primary run he made in 1971. Before we do that, lets get in kirk from akron, ohio into the conversation. Go ahead. Caller thank you, cspan, for this wonderful series the contenders. I just hope one day you will do one about the cabinet, too. Anyway, my comment and my question is i heard somewhere i do not know what the truth is behind this but just moments before senator robert f. Kennedy was assassinated in 1968 after winning the california primary, senator mcgovern was actually participating in a phone conversation with senator kennedy. I wondered if it has been revealed what the conversation was about and if you know anything about that phone conversation . Greta Jules Witcover . Jules i have never heard that. I was in the Hotel Kitchen at the time Robert Kennedy was assassinated. I spent a great deal of time then and since then exploring all of the details of the time leading up to Robert Kennedys death. I never came across that story. But i do know that in his hotel room, he did make calls to a number of people to look over to what he expected to be the next phase of the campaign, which was to go to new york to campaign for delegates there. He did talk to many people. He may well have talked to senator mcgovern as well. Because, if im not mistaken, it was also a primary in south dakota the same night. I have not heard he actually talked to him, but it is very possible. Greta all right, mike in california, good evening to you. Thanks for joining us. Caller just a few things i want to throw out. Anthony lucas in nightmare, maybe the best book about watergate, said dirty tricks were essential to who would be the nominee. I think it is likely nixon ran a white backlash campaign rather than law and order. And finally a historical footnote. The only state mcgovern carried was massachusetts. Im from massachusetts, and at the time, we proudly festooned our cars with bumper stickers that said dont blame me, im from massachusetts. Thats all about to say. Greta [laughter] scott farris . Scott mcgovern always resented the idea that he won the nomination because nixon got involved with socalled dirty tricks against ed muskie. Mcgoverns said he thought that muskie was a very weak front runner and that he was not a good campaigner. That he did not have the fire in the belly and that he had not understood the rules had changed. That muskie lost the nomination the notionthat muskie lost the nomination solely because of nixons dirty tricks senator mcgovern always disliked that, but he acknowledged that the Nixon Campaign was always doing little things. The Mcgovern Campaign had plenty of stories where they would find out their buses had been canceled right before a rally and they cannot get people to an front to and from. And they always seem to have someone holding up a hammer and sickle at the mcgovern rallies that they assumed was a nixon plant. There were certainly the dirty tricks involved. But he did not believe that was why he won the nomination. Greta all right. Caller i read the wild blue and only then learned about mcgoverns war record. I remember the 1972 campaign was my first actual time i could vote. But i dont recall mcgovern ever mentioning his war record, and i think it would have given his antiwar stance more credibility if he had. Can you comment on that . Greta yes john, before our , guests come in on that, i want to show you and others what George Mcgovern had to say about his experience as a world war ii bomber pilot. Cspan sat down with him recently at his offices in south dakota. Here he is in his own words on that and then we will talk about it. [video] sen. Mcgovern i flew 35 missions in the b24 bomber, which was the biggest one we had. That was before the b52 and the b1. And we were hitting the most heavilydefended targets in europe. They shot as to pieces on some of those missions. I wanted to bailout and i wanted my crew to bail out. But i have a little scotch blood and i knew it was going to cost about 300,000. That is nothing by todays standards where you have be one that costs 1 billion for one plane, but it was a lot of money then. So i kept nursing those crippled planes back to home base. And for that, i got the distinguished flying cross. Greta there it is the , distinguished flying cross in mitchell, south dakota at the mcgovern museum. We are live there for our contenders series. Tonight on George Mcgovern. Scott farris, how does a war hero become an antiwar president ial candidate, and why, as that caller said, does he not talk about it . Scott well, it was a subject of a lot of debate during the campaign about how much he , should mention his war record. He did mention it from time to time. He never completely ignored it. But he was encouraged by his staff to exclude it from his nomination acceptance speech. They thought it was incongruous that he would come out and speak against war while at this same time writing about your war record. That was the rationale why he did not emphasize it. I would agree with the caller that it would have been to his benefit if he had talked about it a little bit more because people got the mistaken idea that he was a pacifist who never believed in using the Armed Services for any purpose. He endorsed the use of force in during the Clinton Administration kosovo. , he was not a pacifist, but it was a decision they fell the topic was incongruous to mention the war record in the context of being an antiwar candidate. Greta jules, was it talked about, his war hero status . Jules not much until the end of the campaign. He had a slogan when he wound up his speeches late in the campaign about leaving war behind and coming home. That was one of his slogans, another one of his slogans was come home america. It is in the context of that that there were some references to his wartime experience. Greta all right, here is actually, before we talk about George Mcgoverns primary run, let me get this callin. Jill, in brockton, massachusetts you are on the air. , caller thank you. I recall watching senator mcgovern and Robert Woodward and i think bob schieffer. At the time of president fords funeral. They were interviewing senator govern and talking about his friendship with president ford and he said in the end, he had voted for ford. In 1976 and he said he discussed , it with his family afterward and found they had all done that as well. And i about fell off my chair because im a strong democrat. I wonder if that has come into the mix of information about senator mcgovern ever. [laughter] greta scott farris . Scott he did have great affection for gerald ford. I dont know if you voted for him. He had problems with president carter. There were a couple reasons. President carter had not been very supportive of him in 1972. Even though president carter basically borrowed the mcgovern strategy to get his nomination in 1976. And also, i think he was also a little hurt that the magnitude of senator mcgoverns loss was meant that he was a bit of a pariah in democratic circles. He was not given a starring role at the next convention. I am sure there were some hurt feelings. He worked with a number of republicans. He and bob dole partnered for almost an entire lifetime on the issue of ending a hunter in the of ending hunger in the world. He was capable of working across the aisle. He was never an ideologue. He was capable of working in a bipartisan manner. Greta so, George Mcgovern, the world war ii hero, the congressman from south dakota, the senator from there decides to make a run for the presidency. Having decided to run, mcgovern announces his candidacy from sioux falls, south dakota on january 18, 1971. Here is a piece of the Campaign Film put together by Charles Guggenheim on mcgoverns decision to make that president ial run. [video] sen. Mcgovern this country was conceived by men who had a dream of Human Dignity and justice and concern for each other. And if we begin now to match our policies with our ideals, then i believe it is yet possible that we will come to admire this country, not simply because we were born here, but because of the kind of great and good land that you and i want it to be and that, together, we have made. [applause] that is my hope. That is my reason for seeking the presidency of the United States. [applause] [applause] greta Jules Witcover, what is mcgoverns chances heading into the primary in 1971 . Jules considered very slim. He was not a really dynamic personality. He was a very calm man. Very softspoken. Lacked fire except when he talked about the war in vietnam. Greta was he considered dull . Jules some considered him dull. His gentleness and his niceness was sometimes ridiculed, but it was genuine. When he ran in the first primaries, he was regarded basically as a weak replacement of Robert Kennedy because Robert Kennedy was so dynamic as a candidate. It was also because muskie was considered almost a certainty to be the nominee at that time. He had been very impressive as humphreys nominee in 1968. He was also a rather softspoken man most of the time, but he had a terrible temper that sometimes came through. That seldom happened with George Mcgovern. Greta so, who else was running and how they compare to George Mcgovern . Jules as i recall, other senators, birch by baye, and fred harris. But they were all bunched up together. It was considered it was muskies nomination to lose. Some of the things that happened in New Hampshire that your other guest mentioned, including appearing to cry in a furious moment outside the local newspaper for things that had been printed about his wife. There was some dispute about whether he was actually crying or not. Because it was snowing at the time, and muskie, himself said he was not crying. Nevertheless, that was the impression. But there were other reasons his candidacy began to collapse in New Hampshire. One of the big ones was his position on vietnam. He could not make up his mind where he stood on vietnam. Mcgoverns left no doubt whatever where he stood on the war. Mcgoverns was genuinely against the war but he was belittled often as a peacenik as the expression went in those days. So although he was revered by the people against the war in vietnam, as i said before there were some of the other people who do not see it that way, and they would never dream of voting for George Mcgovern. Greta Charles Guggenheim filmed , the film during the campaign included the senator speaking to a group of vietnam war veterans at a hospital. Here is a little bit of that conversation. [video] sen. Mcgovern you love the country, theres no question that you are halfway mad at it. Believe me, when you lose the control of your body, your bow, your bladder. Your sterility, you will never father a child. The possibility of you ever walk he is cut off. You are 23 years old and do not want to be a burden on your family. You know we go from here . To a nursing home, and you stay there until you rush. Why isnt there places like this the government could set up . Nobody thinks of a disabled veteran or a disabled anybody, but another disabled person. Sen. Mcgovern yes. If you fall out of your wheelchair, you know who is the first one to help give you some help . A guy in a wheelchair, not somebody who is walking. Sen. Mcgovern i think one of the most unconscionable facts of this country today is what you have just said. That there are people who are desperately in need of help, that cannot qualify it under the present system. To stay i love the United States, but id love it enough that i want to see changes made but i love it enough that i want to see some changes made. The American People want to believe in the government and their country. I want to provide the kind of leadership that would help restore that kind of faith. I do not think i can do it alone. Of course i cannot. But the president can help set a new tone in this country. He can help raise the hope of the American People. That is what i am trying to do. Scott farris, the impact of George Mcgoverns town in that Campaign Film and the impact on his tone in that Campaign Film and the impact on his primary run. How often do you hear politicians talking that candidly about the price of war . Ferry seldom a, if ever. That was very very seldomly, if ever. One person said, let me tell you why george lost the election. America is a great country. It has faults, but george acted like he was angry at the country. You cannot talk about the nations faults and expected to be elected. George thought that was not true. He thought that patriotism was pointing out the countrys false and trying to improve them. Many people interpreted it as him tearing down the United States by talking so graphically about the cost of war, our conduct their, and even why we were there in the first place. So, how does George Mcgovern overcome this and then win the nomination . Again, he was a bit of a political savant. He was an organizational genius. He understood what it would take to win. We talk about what a good guy he was, and that is true. We should not overlook the fact that he was intensely ambitious as well. A friend said to him, george, you are the most lauded, self effacing egomaniac i know. And that was true. He had what it tuck in terms of putting in the long hours. Gary harts Campaign Manager said that mccleskey would go for the jugular if that is what it took. He had a concept of how to win that involved all of these insurgents who would organize, fled the berkeley flooded the early caucus states and organized. He pulled off a very strong second place showing in the iowa caucus, a very strong second place showing in New Hampshire. It showed that muskie was vulnerable. A cost Hubert Humphrey to get into the race it caused Hubert Humphrey to get into the race. He nearly won ohio. We will talk about california a little bit more. He had better organization. He worked harder and he had the devotion of the antiwar insurgents that nobody else really had. Jules witcover, what was the media making of this grassroots strategy at the time . Were you paying attention to it . We were paying more attention to muskie, because muskie was supposed to be the winner. His staff made a terrible mistake in New Hampshire. One of his leading Campaign People predicted that she said, if ed muskie does not win 50 of the vote, i will eat my hat. He won 46 of the vote, but against that prediction, mcgovern was essentially the winner of the New Hampshire primary and muskie did not recover from that. If muskie had not stumbled mcgovern knowing the game, which he invented, the delegate selection rules, probably would have won anyway, but the fact that muskie had this string of mistakes and bad luck certainly provided the opening for mcgovern. And George Wallace . The role of him in this primary . Well, wallace was a spoiler. He tried to be a spoiler. He got past muskie in florida. Wallace won the florida primary and muskie finished fourth. That was kind of the last nail in muskies coffin and another thing that opened up the way for mcgovern. So, muskie stumbled, but did mcgovern make any mistakes in this primary . He would later. He got a little complacent, oddly enough. He came from 1001 odds to win the nomination, but he stumbled badly in california. He came into california writing riding the southern al all of the seven victories. It came down to the california all of these sudden victories. It came down to the california primary. The governor got a lot of early press that was good because he was the underdog. Nick of earn George Mcgovern got a lot of good press early on because he was the underdog. But he lost in california. Everyone assumed he was going to win in a blowout, but it turned out to be very close. It nearly derailed his nomination. We are going to get into that a little bit more, but i want to first talk about dirty tricks. What were some of the dirty tricks happening in the campaign . Most of them are in New Hampshire. We have already talked about the thing that was done to muskie, but throughout the campaign, dirty tricks were integral to nixon poses strategy, nixons strategy because that is the way they did business. The whole watergate breakin was a manifestation of their desire not only to win, but to destroy the whole campaign, which was really personified by nixon himself. It was to decimate the opposition, not to take chances. It led to the exits we saw soon after the watergate breakin. Where does the tag line of amnesty after an abortion come from . Explain what it is and where it comes from. Remarkably, it came from his future running mate, at least according to bob novak in his posthumous memoirs. Eagleton allegedly said he could not possibly have a chance because he favors amnesty, abortion and marijuana. That was a little unfair. He did not support legalization of marijuana. He would go to College Campuses and say, you have heard in the candidate who is supposed to legalize pot. The can knowledge the College Campuses would go wild, and he would say, that is not true. The crowds would sit on their hands. He did not favor amnesty for deserters. He did favor for conscientious objectors. As for abortion, he believed abortion should remain a decision made at the state level, not the federal level. Had he been asked about roe v wade, he would have opposed the basic construct, because it was a federal madeleine federal matter. People were trying to put a peacenik, i hit the image on him. Hit the hippie image on him. The line about amnesty, abortion and marijuana was a dirty trick, but it is so common in politics, even now. One side takes action to sabotage the other side. At the time that you heard that line, what did you make of it . Not much. Did you write about it . I do not remember what i wrote about it, but i would not have put it in the category of being a dirty trick. It is the sort of thing that would go on both sides come back and forth, always has done, and probably will continue to do. Were talking about George Mcgovern, our 13th contender in our 14week series. Go ahead. I was a 17yearold College Student at the time and volunteered for the Mcgovern Campaign, but i was not able to vote in that election. But my question is, the breakin of the democratic headquarters at the watergate did not appear to be exploited and announced that much by the Mcgovern Campaign at the time. Why was there so much caution with the campaign not to denounce the breakin . It seems to me that the sinister aspects of the breakin may have been a very effective factor and reason for people not to re elect nixon. I would like to conclude lastly that mr. Mcgovern appears to be the only living contender who is available, and i wondered if he was invited to participate in your program tonight. He was invited to participate, and we had planned that he would join us. Unfortunately, he took a spill earlier this evening and will not be able to make it. He is doing fine, but regrettably, will not be able to make it this evening. Lets take the callers comments about the watergate breakin. Why did the governor not make more of it . Quite see certainly tried. At the time he certainly tried. The watergate story did not take off the way it should have, the way we would have expected it to. One of the reasons is kind of an inside journalism story. A lot of newspapers including the Los Angeles Times had editors to be felt the story was unprovable who felt that the story was unprofitable and that the unprovable and that the Washington Post was hanging out there by themselves. They did not always jump in on it. The governor himself had his way with it, but it did not catch on with the press the way he would have wanted it to. Were the American People reading about it . You have to remember that the most discriminating aspects of watergate were revealed after the campaign was over, when the trial began and one of the defendants told the judge that there was more to the story than had come out. A lot of the stuff that came out was too late for it to be of any benefit to mcgovern, but he certainly did try. We have discussed the primary. Lets go up to the convention. Here is George Mcgovern at the convention in miami, joking about giving his speech at two 30 a. M. 2 30 a. M. Chairman obrien, chairman byrd, senator kennedy, senator eagleton and my fellow citizens, i am happy to join you for this benediction of our friday sunrise service. [applause] i assume that everyone here is control ofwith miny this convention and with my choice for Vice President , challenged only by 39 other nominees. We are back live from mitchell south dakota at the George Mcgovern and museum. Scott farris, a president ial author, the government gives this beach George Mcgovern is 2 30 a. M. Ch at two 30 a. M they had tried to do away with winner take all primaries, but they granted an exception for california. They realize there was a strong in certain feeling in california that would benefit who ever the insurgent candidate turned out to be. They went to the california primary, the last primary before the convention, and now the race had narrowed down to mcgovern and humphrey. Humphrey actually came within five points. At that point, humphrey then said, why should california be winner take all . The commission had talked about a proportional displacement of delegates. Why should california be different . I should get half of the delegates from california, because he was trying to stop make govern. They were actually good stop George Mcgovern. They were actually good friends. They had a lot in common. And George Mcgovern was shocked that humphrey was going to such lengths to change california. This went all the way to the Convention Floor where humphrey had proposed an alternative delegation that or have humphries supporters and have mcgovern that were half humphrey supporters and half mcgovern supporters. Wednesday was the day they were supposed to submit their Vice President ial nominees. People had been up all night. They did not have a short list of vicepresident ial nominees. That was not wildly different than in the past. Generally, they did not name the Vice President ial nominee until the convention. Because of the fiasco in 1972 when eagleton was picked, nominees are now picked well ahead of the convention so that they can be vetted. He finally submitted the name just a few minutes before the deadline. By that time, he had angered the feminists. They had put a woman nominee yet. That encouraged other people to put up a whole bunch of nominees, a total of 39, some goofy, some serious. By the time they got the balloting done and nominated his running mate, it was almost 3 00 in the morning. Who was on the possible short list of vicepresident ial candidates . It started out as a long list. The night that they were supposed to pick the nominee, that morning at the hotel in miami, he called together the staff, and they sat around this big green covered table in the hotel, and slips of paper were passed around to all of the Staff Members. All of the Staff Members were in on the decision as to who should be the Vice President. They would write their opinion on a piece of paper and then it would be collected and they would total them. About 20 different people were nominated, and then they narrowed it down to about 10. And then they narrowed it down to six. I do not think i could name all six, but among that group, in addition to eagleton, were ted kennedy, who had said several times he did not want to do it, obrien, the Campaign Manager, recalls rubikoff, the governor of connecticut, and two or three others. They would take a ballot, take another one and another one, and finally they got down to two people. They were eagleton and kevin white, who was a mayor at the time. After some more discussion, they decided it should be kevin white. And they actually called devon white called kevin white and offered him the nomination, and he said he would take it. But an economist and member of the massachusetts delegation called the governor and said, you cannot take kevin white. The massachusetts delegation will walk out. Ted kennedy will object. He had to back off and de nominate kevin white. That left eagleton. Another reporter and i were hanging around outside this meeting for a couple of hours. When it finally broke up, we went into the room and found all the pieces of paper. They were torn up. We meticulously put them all together and spent about two hours patching them together to determine who it was going to be. There were so many names and so many little pieces, we wasted our time. There was no consensus among the staff. They had decided by that time that it would be eagleton, but all of those pieces of paper were there, and we did not know they had made a decision, so we wasted about two hours playing detective, trying to figure out who it was. Why did all of these potential running mates say no . When he does choose eagleton, eagleton except. Who does that appeal to . Most of them said no because they thought he was going to lose. Even though senator mcgovern had some very good reasons why he thought he would win, nobody thought it would happen. Nobody wanted to be associated with a losing campaign. His tactical error was that he thought he could convince senator kennedy to be his running mate. What he wanted to do was represent the insurgent wing of the party. It was the same problem Hubert Humphrey had in 1968. He wanted to unify the democrats. He was looking for someone who would be acceptable to labor, and urban ethnic, a catholic. That is why kevin white was considered and eagleton fit the bill. Eagleton had some president ial aspirations of his own. The Communications Director and top strategist called senator eagleton and said, is there anything in your past we should know about . And senator eagleton said no, no there was not. We will talk more about that decision and the fallout from it, but first, let me speak to ed in morristown, new jersey. Go ahead. Senator mcgovern took of Robert Kennedys banner in 1968. How much support did he receive from the kennedy forces after he received the nomination and added a kennedy member, as you are about to discuss, to the ticket . Do you want to take that one . The campaign enthusiastically for him. The Kennedy Family campaigned enthusiastically for him. When eagleton was dropped from the ticket, Sargent Shriver agreed to be his running mate. They had a great affection for senator mcgovern. He was viewed as a strong ally of Robert Kennedy. He called him the most decent man in the u. S. Senate. The Kennedy Family was behind him 100 . Michael in ohio. You are next. This talk about the Vice President s pick and so on is an example of how messed up that whole scenario seemed to be. What i always wondered was how come the Democratic Party never stood behind Hubert Humphrey, who only four years earlier had a very close election with president nixon, and why they would not have backed him all along instead of him just becoming another person trying to run for office . Jules witcover. One reason was that humphrey had been a president ial candidate before that and had not made it. Muskie was so strong, and also you have to remember that nixon not nixon, but lyndon b. Johnson, was the standard bearer in 1968 until he decided to drop out. Humphrey did not get into that race until lbj dropped out. He did not have the apparatus to go on. I think he probably would have been a good candidate. Colorado, bud. You are on the air. Thank you for taking my call and thank you very much for doing this series. Were talking tonight about one of my very favorite americans. The very First Campaign that i was ever involved in. I have always been rather amazed at how much this country dismissed senator mcgovern and was willing to reelect Richard Nixon. I read Jules Witcovers book of the year it came out, while i was in college. I could not quite get it. I think the senator has proven himself over decades to be a very great american, and im really grateful for cspan presenting this program. Jules witcover. I would agree with the caller mcgovern was an underrated, under appreciated candidate. He was up against a candidacy, nixons, that was very aggressive and destruction, and he made some mistakes in his own campaign. They did him in. Without the conflicts of the campaign, the dirty tricks and so on, i wonder if he could have won the election. Well, lets get into nixons role and the mistakes mcgovern made. But first, we need to talk about the choice of eagleton. Here is the former Campaign Aide frank explaining the choice. The problem was that we had a very tough road to the nomination. It was not clear until the second day of the convention because of an ugly fault because of an ugly fight involving california, that George Mcgovern would get the nomination. That took a lot of time and concentration. It got kind of chaotic. There were three or four days in which to choose a Vice President , two days, really. Two days, two nights. We all got together and talked. We named names, through some names around. Tom eagleton was, by all measurements, a good candidate. George mcgovern was from a Small Agricultural state in the north. Tom eagleton was from a border state, a catholic with strong ties to labor. On key issues, he was in agreement with mcgovern. It looked like a pretty good fit. You have to remember that we did not have any fbi, any security agencies available to check anybody out. We assumed that tom eagleton who had run statewide and 14 or five times as he had, if there was four org and wpon five times as he had, if there was anything but could have come out about him, it would have come out. What were you being told about the candidate . The betting candidates was a very casual sort of thing at the vetting candidates was a very casual sort of thing at that time. There was very little time, or any reason really, not to take his word for it that he had done nothing that would damage the campaign. After the convention, you go to sioux falls. What is happening . What is the story about eagleton . I was not there at the time that eagleton went there and met with mcgovern. Word came that eagleton had had Mental Health problems and had taken psychotherapy twice. Mcgovern was satisfied with eagleton posole eagletons explanation. There was not only support of him, but he made the mistake of saying he was for him 1000 . It was hard to back away from that when they realized the reaction they were getting after the disclosure of eagletons problems. It was clearly going to damage the campaign. What happened next . There are trying to find a delicate way out of it and they were not able to do that. A couple of things happened. Once the rumors or the truth came out about senator eagleton pose a treatment for depression, which is what he was eagletons treatment for depression, which is what he had been diagnosed with. He was also accused of being a drunk driver, which turned out to be false. There was a sense that he was being picked on. A lot of people have mental and as. He said he was fine. Why shouldnt he stay on the ticket . There was initially hoped he would quietly resign and go away, but senator eagleton was not feeling that way. He felt his reputation had been damaged. Even though senator mcgovern said he was behind Thomas Eagleton 1000 , he was quietly trying to figure out how to get him off the ticket. There was a very long dance trying to negotiate eagleton voluntarily resigning from the ticket. What happened was that eagleton essentially wrote out the statement that senator mcgovern would make, and there would be no reference to these Mental Health problems. That was the only condition under which he would resign. Of course, this is now an albatross on the campaign. The struggle to replace eagleton took a very long time. Senator muskie called a News Conference to announce that he had declined being the nominee. Eventually, he turned to Sargent Shriver, who had been one of the earlier choices but had been out of the country during the democratic nomination. Now he was back. He said he would do it. He turned out to be an effective campaigner, but it was disastrous. The campaign was very hurt by the eagleton affair. It is possible he still never would have won, but he may have carried tenor 15 states and 147 of the vote 10 or 15 states and carried 47 of the vote instead of 37 of the vote. There was a question of character. Many people believed Richard Nixon was a knockoff of joe mccarthy. They cannot understand how the appeal to middle america. But because senator mcgovern had gone back and forth and maybe not been totally honest about eagleton, nixon now seemed more trustworthy. That hurt him very deeply. He was very sad about that. He now realize that the question was about his character, not nixons. That was one of the factors that kept water gate from being a big story. People could not put watergate in context, initially. Why would they break into democratic headquarters . Nobody knew it was part of a broader strategy of sabotaging democratic campaigns. The bigger story was the eagleton affair, not watergate, and that is one of the reasons the democrats could not capitalize on watergate. Well talk more about what is happening with nixon at this time, but first, let me show you a couple of campaign ads from this. One of the reasons i am disturbed by the president s 10 million secret Election Fund is that it indicates that there is something he is afraid to disclose. Whether they hiding . I am perfectly willing what are they hiding . I am perfectly willing to publish to be donated every single dollar to my campaign. But the president is covering it up. It is the sort of thing that puts the tarnish on the whole nation. I can only say the thing that motivated might change might change my change was a year of collecting pure, unaffected fax. Facts. I want to make this pledge to sammy and everybody here. Whether youre young, old, black, white, i believe in the american dream. Sammy davis believes in it. We have seen it in our own lives. Years from now, i hope you can look back and say this was one of your best boats. Thank you. Best votes. Thank you. What is happening with nixon at this point in the general election . How is he campaigning . Nixon is coasting, basically. He had a very, very disciplined campaign. It was a carryover from his campaign in 1968, where everything was orchestrated, down to the finest detail. That caution came out of his defeat in 1960 when he made the mistake of pledging to go to every state, and campaigned dawn to dusk. As a result of that, he looked terrible. We will all recall the debate he had with john f. Kennedy, where he looked like he was going to expire. So, he and his brain trust decided that the best way to run Richard Nixon was to limit what he did and always have him at his best. It happened in 1968 and again in 1972. What was it like for you to cover the Mcgovern Campaign versus the Nixon Campaign . How were they different . I covered them both. One difference was that mcgovern was running desperately. They knew that they were not catching on. They traveled widely. It was one of the First Campaigns were jet planes were used extensively and they could go back and forth across the country in a day. Just as humphrey had done when he lost two knicks in the first time, in 1968 lost to nixon in 1968, campaigning too much. One of the successes for nixon in 1968 and 1972 was that the campaign realized that if you gave Television Just one face to use on the evening news, making it the best face you could. Only do that one piece. Whereas humphrey campaigned, as i said earlier, from dawn to dusk. He made a lot of mistakes. He made some good choices. But the media will always pick the most controversial thing, so nine times out of 10, humphrey would look bad and nixon would look good. The same thing applied in 1972 with mcgovern and nixon. What is the Nixon Campaign doing to try to weaken the government . Again weaken mcgovern . Again, they are trying to paint him as a radical, out of touch with the american mainstream. There also staying above the fray, talking about the accomplishments of the nixon administration. And we talk about why mcgovern thought he had a chance to win. He had a number of accomplishments. Nixons first year in office was very controversial. He had expanded the war in vietnam, and domestically, he raised a lot of hackles by instituting wage control. There was inflation. He began the americanization of the war in vietnam, bringing troops home to try to quell the antiwar demonstrations. He tried to counter his image as a prowarmonger by going to china and establishing relations. He managed to orchestrate events so that his presidency reached its peak in 1972. His great accomplishments in office occurred in 1972 and took away a lot of the arguments about why he should not be supported. Two other things about misjudgments he made. He thought George Wallace was going to run again as a Third Party Candidate and siphon a lot of votes from nixon not only in the south but in the industrial northeast. Of course wallace was the victim of an assassination attempt right before the maryland primary, was paralyzed, and was not able to continue the race. He also thought the youth vote would come out in mass in in his favor. Surprisingly, he barely won the 1820 yearold demographic, which showed that despite all of the attention given to antiwar activists, a lot of americans were still very conservative. We know how this story ends. George mcgovern loses in one of the second worst landslides in american history. What is the mood of the campaign . When youre on the campaign plane, and youre in this tube lying around the country flying around the country, you do not know what is going on in the rest of the country. Millions of people believed they were going to win and that they could win. The defeat was crashing to them. We need to, as we wrap up this discussion about the general election, we want to move on to the legacy of George Mcgovern. But first, a little bit of the senator from his concession speech. Then youll hear a secret white house recording of a phone conversation between president nixon and the special assistant for national security, henry kissinger. We suspect that president nixon will come out of this the winner with about 60 of the popular vote and somewhere between 4005500 or more electoral 450500 or more electoral votes. I hope that in the next four years you will lead us to a time of peace abroad and justice at home. You have my full support in such efforts with best wishes to you and your gracious wife, pat. Sincerely, George Mcgovern. Dr. Kissinger and senator humphrey are speaking. It will be a few moments before we can get him. I have dr. Kissinger. Go ahead, please. Hello, mr. President. I wanted to extend my warmest congratulations. We all knew it was going to happen. We got our 60 . One could not really be sure until we had seen. We got every state except massachusetts, and maybe minnesota. What a critic. Did you hear that concession statement . He was very gracious at the beginning. He sent me a wire saying i look forward to working with you and your supporters for peace in the years ahead. I am not going to send in that kind of wire. Would you agree . Absolutely. He was in generous not generous, and worthy. Unworthy. I responded in a decent way. It was as far as i could go, but i am not going to spend much time on him. You are looking at one of the cue cards from George Mcgovern pose a concession speech. He said George Mcgoverns concession speech. Jules witcover, was his concession speech reviewed by others as not gracious . I do not think so. It took a paranoid personality like Richard Nixon to take it that way. Scott farris, your reaction . It was generally pretty gracious. Nixons telegram to George Mcgovern was not particularly warm and friendly either. They both knew that they did not like each other. Most people have not gone back and read all of the concession speeches in american history. I actually did that for my book. George mcgovern does get a little more testy than some of the others. Barry goldwater is another one. Apparently, when you lose in a landslide youre not feeling that good. During nixons second inaugural, George Mcgovern was in england at oxford, and gave a speech in which he was very critical of nixon. That actually caused a lot more comments than the concession speech he gave. I think the concession speech was in the realm of what is expected of a losing candidate. But the speech in oxford in 1973, a lot of people criticized him for saying those things, especially to a foreign audience. Were going to move on to what George Mcgovern did after he ran for president in 1972. But first were going to get to ed in ohio. Good evening. There is an important article that nick of burned that make governor the George Mcgovern wrote that was in the washington journal. It is my advice to obama. He went on to say, first, i will order all troops out of iraq and afghanistan by thanksgiving. Ed, i am going to leave it there because were getting a lot of feedback. You have to turn your television down. Scott farris, pick it up there with George Mcgovern and his impact on president obama. His antiwar views. He created a coalition that represents the modern Democratic Party, the party that elected barack obama in 2008. The Obama Campaign in 20072008 tended to mirror George Mcgovern, an insurgent candidate against a more established candidate, hillary clinton. Clearly, president obama followed the George Mcgovern blueprint to a certain degree. In terms of the war, George Mcgovern has said two things. First, he has been disappointed that president obama has escalated american involvement in afghanistan. He has criticized that and suggested that afghanistan could become another vietnam, which of course was the centerpiece of his campaign. He has offered obama a lot of praise, but also expressed his concerns as well. Duncan in ohio, go ahead. Thank you for having me. I was just curious if you had ever heard of an Organization Called the builder, and whether or not bildeberg, and whether George Mcgovern had been to a meeting with them . I have not heard of that. We continue to talk about George Mcgovern and his post 1972 career. This is bill clinton, who actually ran the George Mcgovern campaign in texas, as many of you know. Think of just the highlights of this fascinating life. Pilot, a teacher, congressman, senator, first director of food for peace, author with senator dole of the food stamp program, courageous critic of the vietnam war, first and only person from south dakota so far to be nominated for president , United Nations delegate under president s ford and carter, advocate for disarmament and peace in the middle east. When i was president , United Nations ambassador to the food and agriculture organization, recipient of the medal of freedom, and with senator dole, the inspiration for the School Funding program. George did not tell you what happened with the 300 million. There are 130 million children in this world who never darkened a schoolhouse door. Their idea was to say to poor kids across the world and to their parents, you can have one good nutritious meal a day no matter how poor you are, but you have to come to school to get it. After we passed that little bit the initiative in a multi trillion dollar budget, schoolroom and around the world in the first year went up by more than School Enrollment around the world in the first year went up by more than 6 million children. Scott farris, explain why George Mcgovern had a passion on this issue and its impact. Two reasons. One, he was a generally compassionate man. He saw hundred during be a during the depression. He said he saw hundred during the depression. He saw hundred during the war. As a senator from a farm state, he also understood how this was a program with a marvelous capacity to produce food. Other farm state senators like senator dole saw the opportunity in this as well. One of the things senator mcgovern did, when the food for Peace Program was first initiated under the Eisenhower Administration, it was seen as a way to get rid of agricultural surpluses that the government had purchased, a program from the new deal. George mcgovern said it is a humanitarian thing. It is about feeding the hungry, especially children. He took the food for Peace Program, which was a Minor Program under eisenhower, and dramatically in creased its scope. In six months, he distributed six times as much food as the Eisenhower Administration had delivered in six years. Millions of children around the world got a school lunch. It was probably the greatest humanitarian effort of the kennedy administration, including the peace corps. We have about 10 minutes left, talking about George Mcgovern. As we told you earlier, we invited senator mcgovern to be on our program this evening. Unfortunately, he took a spill earlier tonight and was unable to join us. He has been flown to sioux falls south dakota for further medical attention. Unfortunately, he could not be with us. We wish him the best of health. Jake in sioux falls, s. D. , go ahead. Excellent program tonight. My question is whether George Mcgovern was ever delectable in 1972. Were there any ever elective all electable in 1972. Could he have been elected if he had avoided eagleton debacle or the latenight speech . The conditions we have talked about at some length to night were a mixed bag in the campaign. For all this support that George Mcgovern got from war protestors, there were just as many people who did not look at the war that way. They did not think it was a disaster. Their attitudes were shaped by president nixon, who played on their patriotism and played on their emotions, and turned the demonstrations that helped George Mcgovern into almost a National Disgrace in a way that helped nixon. Was his political career over after 1972 . He continued to serve in the United States senate. He was reelected in south dakota pretty handily in 1974. By that time, watergate had come about and president nixon had resigned. Senator mcgovern felt a bit of vindication. It is unfortunate that his defeat was so total in 1972 that he was not mentioned as a candidate in 1976. In 1980, there was a big republican wave that brought Ronald Reagan into office. Many democrats lost their seats in congress. In 1984, George Mcgovern launched another quixotic bid for the presidency. He was up against gary hart and former Vice President walter mondale. George mcgovern got kudos for being a thoughtful presence. He got credit for trying to heal some of the wounds within the party. He maintained a very active life in public affairs, going back to this passion for addressing world hunger. With bill clinton, he helped work on the world food program, which helped to feed many people. Under and nutrition remains his passion today, as well he did hunter hunger and nutrition remains his passion today, as well as reminding people of liberal values. Thank you very much. I think you guys have done your studies. I want to just remind everybody to remember george after losing and election. I do not think he lost. I think he moved on to be much better things, like you folks were just talking about with the world hunger program. George has survived wars, being in antiwar person yet willing to step up for our country. I think he is a great peacekeeper, and he understands World Politics like we do not understand. My question is, for our country, who in 2012 is the closest candidate that can carry out George Mcgoverns policies . Who is the closest, best option that we have . It is barack obama. I do not think that any of the republican candidates represent anything akin to the sorts of things that George Mcgovern running for president in 1972 or the objectives he has carried out the rest of his life. What kind of president would George Mcgovern have been . I actually think he would have been a pretty good president. I base that on the food for Peace Program. One of the things you need to bring to the presidency is certain executive management skills. What he did with the food for Peace Program, without a lot of money, indicates that he was able to carry things out. Had he become president , he may have had a difficult time getting us out of vietnam in a way that would have been acceptable to people, but i think he would have been a fine president. I think he had the qualities of judgment and good will that americans want in their president. In the future of liberals in this country . Again, he has outlined a map for the Democratic Party to be a major force in politics, to return to its status as the majority party. It is a question of whether the democrats will get over the nostalgias of the new Deal Coalition. A lot of people remember their parents and families growing up in urban america and would like to restore the Democratic Party to that labor union ideal. I think senator mcgovern realize that there are more fertile grounds for working with liberalism within the Democratic Party. There are ways to appeal to minorities, women, to the young, and to continue to broaden their base. He has shown the way for them to be a viable political force. Maybe gary hart is right. Without George Mcgovern, the Democratic Party might have ceased to exist as a viable party. Then give this one to both of you. Will there be another antiwar candidate . In the future, like a mcgovern . The thing the differentiated him from other anti work candidates was in his heart, was in his soul antiwar candidate was in his heart, in his soul. I think he might disagree with barack obama, who said he is not against all wars. George mcgovern was not against all wars either because he fought courageously in one. But i think if he had been elected, he would have gone as out of vietnam as soon as he could. It certainly would have been a lot sooner than nixon did, with the countrys tail between its legs. Scott farris, quickly. I do not believe anyone will ever run as an antiwar candidate exactly the way he did. He showed what a president ial candidate can and cannot say about a war when america is involved in it. People were very unsettled when he was so uncompromising and graphic in his language. It is indicative that ever since George Mcgovern, president ial nominees they dont want to be called, as mike dukakis called, he is not another mcgovern when it comes to foreign affairs. At i am skeptical unless we have more time passed that we talk about war the way that George Mcgovern did in 1972. We need to wrap up on that point. We want to thank the Mcgovern Center and our guests. We would also like to think its got mortensen, and senator mcgoverns daughter, and senator mcgovern as well. Scott, your final thoughts, if i could, since you are the president ial author, what is the legacy of George Mcgovern . Transformed the Democratic Party in a way that very few have ever transformed the political party. His food for peace, his humanitarian efforts, those may be his greatest legacy is. Who knows how many are alive today because of George Mcgovern. Something i forgot to mention, bill clinton, his texas coordinator. He spawned a lot of young idealists who went into politics and made a name for himself. For a man who lost the president ial election, he had a lot of influence. Thank you both. Bu [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] we are not content with things as they are. We reject the view that people say, america, love it or leave it. Labor day we cannot cspan. On sunday, a look back on the legacy john paul stevens, with respective sermons former law clerks. He knew what his job was to do what was right under the law and be transparent and honest about his best understanding about the Law Community was. At 8 00 p. M. Eastern, former white house chief of staff to the past for president s, dennis and Mick Mulvaney on how they tilt with crises during the respective administrations. The processing of information is always important to a president and any leader becomes extraordinarily important when dealing with crises. You have to stick to the process thats created and the president has empowered to make sure the president is getting the information they need to make the right decision. Watch cspan this labor day weekend. Americans affected by covid19, the economy and Racial Discrimination addressed the 2020 Democratic National convention. Minute portion includes remarks by Small Business owners, Domestic Violence survivors, climate activists and gun violence prevention activists. Its been rough. My wife and i, 31 years ago, began