Transcripts For CSPAN The Contenders George Wallace 20240712

We come to you live from the governor of the mansion in montgomery, alabama, wartime political candidate George Wallace. Elected governor of alabama and four times, George Wallace lived here for 20 of his life. Before we begin our conversation on George Wallace and his legacy and introduce you to our guest, here is a look at his political style. If you cannot decision at harvard between honesty and being over active, you should come down to alabama and we will show you some lot down there. Both National Parties in the last number of years have about down to every group of anarchists that have roamed the streets of San Francisco and los angeles. [applause] now they have created themselves a monster and the chickens are coming home to roost all over this country. I love you, too. I sure do. I thought you were a she. You are a he. In california, a group of anarchists laid down in front of his automobile. If you elect me president , if i come to arkansas it will be the last thing ever. We are joined here in the Governors Mansion in front of the governor country mansion in montgomery, alabama two miles south of downtown buggery dan t. Carter, the author of George Wallace the politics of rage. In the 20th century lost a conservative and i cannot think of anyone more than influential, not so much in creating ideas, but in showing there was a tremendous amount of support in the country for what was at that time the new conservatism that ultimately evolved. What is the new conservatism . It meant more lost over the years, but in the early stages it was very closely went with the activism of the federal government and, particularly, the flashpoint of the Civil Rights Movement. That is where George Wallace got his start, but it was something that was far broader than simply what was happening in the south. George wallace was first elected governor of alabama in 1962. Where did he come from . One of the most politically active counties and areas of alabama. There was not much to do except get involved in politics, so that is what George Wallace did. He turned out to be very good at it. Coming back after world war ii having served as an engineer, flying in the pacific, he ran for the state legislature, easily won. He was an upandcoming figure. He then was elected judge. He was so popular he decided to run for governor in 1958. The problem was he ran as a moderate. A moderate in alabama in 1958 was someone who emphasized law and order. Certainly governor wallace was a segregationist just as much as his opponent, John Paterson. There were nuances you had to listen for. When judge wallace, as he was then, emphasized that he was born to uphold the law and criticized his opponent for having the backing of the coup plots klan ku klux klan, that was a way of saying to voters i am a segregationist, but i am 8 reasonable segregationists. The loss in the primary. John paterson ran, as he himself said later on, as a stronger segregationist candid. That is why wallace lot. At that point, i. He faced a critical kind of crossroads in his career. There was no place for him to go except to tap into the rising tide of antigovernment conservatism, which was at that time built around the Civil Rights Movement. Then he is elected easily in 1962. What did he change . He became a much stronger opponent of segregation and essentially later on we associate him with a standing in the schoolhouse door. I will stand in the schoolhouse door to prevent segregation. That is what he did, although he had to back out of the door pretty quickly. He ran for governor in but it in 1964. Lyndon johnson had become president after the assassination of john kennedy. Johnson insisted he was too busy, so he did not actually run as a candidate. When wallison announced he was. To run for the democratic primary, nobody paid any attention to him. He got about two paragraphs in the new york times. When he went to the northern states in 1964, the governor predicted he would not get 1 of the vote. He got 33 of the vote. It stunned everyone i think it was at that moment that pundits, political observers realised that the separation in the south, was going on in the south was not just southern. Clearly there was a constituency for someone like wallace. George wallace ran for president in 1964, 1968, 1972, and 1976. In 1968 he won five states and 46 the electoral votes. That is the last time an independent candidate has won any electoral votes. Here is George Wallace announcing in 1968. Over the years i have repeatedly stated that one of the existing Political Parties must offer the people of this country a real choice in 1968, that i would lead a political effort that would offer this choice. I have travelled throughout our country in the past year, literally from concord, New Hampshire to los angeles, california, to miami, florida. The American People are hungry for a change in the direction of our National Government. They are disturbed and concerned about the trends being followed by our national leadership. There has been no response by any of the parties the which showed the American People that they are they are heeding the growing the solution that amounts to a oneparty system in the United States. No prospective candidate of the two existing parties or anyone in leadership positions have come forward with any indication that there will be any difference in their platforms. No one has suggested that the wishes of the American People will be heard. So, today i state to you that i am a candidate for president of the United States. My wife, the governor of alabama, joins me in this decision. My wife and i, together, in making this announcement are carrying out our commitment the people of alabama made during her campaign in the year 1966. I will run to win. We will, of course, discussed in depth as time goes on the issues and our solutions to problems that face the American People. Dan carter, what was George Wallace so successful in 1968 . His campaign was successful for the reasons he was usually successful. He had an almost a natural ability to size up both the audience as he spoke to and public opinion. A couple of pollsters used to say i always listen to what governor wallace is going to say because i knew the next time i would call that is the way it was quintuple. That may be an exaggeration, but he was certainly aware that in 1964 he may have seemed like a flash in the pan, revolving around the Civil Rights Act of 1964. By 1968 you have riots in the cities. You have the antiwar movement. You had a general reaction throughout the country as americans realized the Civil Rights Movement was not only having an impact in the south, but the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1965 was. To effect the rest of affect the rest of the country as well. Everything from housing to jobs. He knew it was out there is a constituency he knew it was out there opposed to the activities of the federal government. The role of the courts, the role of the presidency and johnson. He knew that as an independent candidate he also had the possibility and it was a long shot. He did not think he was going to win, secretly. But he knew there was a possibility they could get enough votes as a thirdparty candidate to throw the election into the house of representatives, something that had not been done over 100 years. He always thought he was going to be elected. But he was pretty realistic and realizable was a long shot. He was also thinking about 1972. Even if they did not win in 1968, he saw himself as stronger by 1972. He was not governor at the time in 1968 when he was running. His wife, lurleen wallace, had been elected in his place in 1966. She practically died in office. Albert brewer succeeded her and supported him in that campaign. He was not governor, but he did have the support of the state of alabama pretty successfully. What was happening in april, 1968 when Martin Luther king was assassinated . What was George Wallaces reaction . What did he do . Blacks he made perfunctory the may perfunctory remarks about how tragic it was and talk about it a couple of times. He really did not respond publicly very much. He responded earlier much more to the assassination of john kennedy, despite the fact that he always saw kennedy his foil for standing in the schoolhouse door, trying to keep out black students in 1963. He really respected him. When kennedy was assassinated, it disturbed him deeply, i think, in part because he realizes that the assassination of a public figure like kennedy could happen to him as well you have a picture in your book of president kennedy touring alabama in 1963. Not a picture that jfk wanted to have published. He made every effort to make sure he was not photographed sidebyside with George Wallace. He may have not liked wallace. In some ways, he admired his political skills. He did not like him, but he realized that politically this was not going to do him any good to have this picture next to governor wallace. There is the picture. You could see it was sticking by a long lens. Jfk getting off the helicopter and greeting governor wallace. What was his reaction in june 1968 when rfk was shot . He really did not like robert kennedy. They had had a number of disagreements. They had met at some great length in the month preceding the standing in the schoolhouse door. Once again, he used it to talk about the rise of lawlessness in america, but i do not think he was deeply touched by it at all. Dan carter, in 1968, how serious did Hubert Humphrey take George Wallace . Humphrey worried about him because he saw him as potentially pulling votes. As time went on i think humphrey came to realize that wallace was going to be pulling boats from nixon. He did not worry about him as much. Nixon is the one who came to be deeply concerned about him. As the campaign opened, nixon was so far ahead in the polls that it was only by the time you got to late september that he began to realize that humphrey was moving back a little bit, coming up in the polls, and what and wallace was pulling 20 of the votes. These were his voters, his political advisers felt. He had to figure out a way to get the support of wallace voters without directly attacking him. President nixon won in 1968. 31. 7 million votes. 301 electoral votes. Hubert humphrey, 31. 3 million votes and 91 electoral votes. George wallace received nearly 10 million votes and 46 electoral votes. Here is George Wallace discussing the 1968 campaign. The support we have in at this region of the country gives us an excellent base. It will go forth in the beginning with at least the 177 at laurel boats that comprise the states of the south electoral votes that comprise the states of the south. No new Party Movement has ever had the grass roots support that our movement has. There are movements that are movements of personalities of some small group represented representing only a small fraction of the public vote. But our movement does represent the majority thinking of the American People at this moment. We are back live in montgomery, alabama. This is a live picture of the Governors Mansion, two miles south of downtown montgomery. Dan carper, how is it that George Wallace got 10 million votes and 46 electoral votes . All the states he won were in the deep south. To him, that was a disappointment. He had hoped to break into some of the border states. It was close in a number of them North Carolina and virginia, and particularly tennessee. He was within striking distance. Although he was disappointed, it was an extraordinary showing. No political thirdparty candidate since Strom Thurmond in 1948 had even carried enough votes in a state to take the electoral vote. He saw it as a strategy that did not succeed, but one that was sound, i think, in 1968. We want to get you involved in this program on the contenders. 2027370001 for those in the east and the central time zone. 2027370002 for the mountain and pacific time zone. The ceek on the contender ontenders we talked about here humphrey and the vietnam war. Can you talk about George Wallace without talking about segregation . He was the first candidate, the first person, i should say, to testify in favor of a constitutional amendment guaranteeing School Prayer but get the Supreme Court decision. He talked an awful lot about pornography and the dangers of pornography. You have to remember, this was the 1960s and 1970s. He supported roe v. Wade. He came out in favor of the equal rights amendment when it was first proposed. At this time, yes. There were these social issues, but they did not have that hard edge there were later to have in the 1980s and 1990s. The vietnam one was particular interesting because the to the both the position of victory at any cost. George wallace sent the people were very ambivalent about that war. He wanted to be up against the hardliners. He did it by coming up with this formulation. He would go in, when at any cost, or we would collapse. That way the sort of had both sides. What was the known far as color of alabama . He was elected four times. The support came from the race issue, there is no question about it. Alabamians and many white southerners felt besieged. Here you had someone governor wallace was their champion. They saw him as the kind of person who would speak up on their behalf, not politically, but very forcefully. I think that was part of it. The other part was you have to remember, George Wallace came out of the 1930s as a Franklin Roosevelt liberal. He was very liberal in the state legislature. He did have a program, which was often abused, but it was a program which emphasized increases in education, the establishment of Community Colleges around the state that would be accessible to individuals who cannot afford to go to the university of alabama, but they could attend the Community College for a couple of years, maybe get a tech degree or whatever. Education was a big part of it. The underlying force of this passion for governor wallace was, at least in the 1960s, was the race issue. Our first call on George Wallace comes from michigan. You are on the contenders. We are live from Montgomery Alabama. Thank you very much. What appeal did governor wallace have to white ethnic, and religious groups like jews, catholics, etc. , outside of the south and the urban areas . Also, what did he take of senator goldwater . Senator goldwater was also against the civil rights stuff. Thank you very much. He did have a remarkable appeal to ethnic, particularly first generation, eastern europeans. He did not have the baggage of being antisemitic and of being antiforeign. What he found was, particularly in many urban areas of the north, was he found that the very prosperity of the 1950s and 1960s had created tension between blacks and ethnics in the workingclass communities in which africanamericans were finally getting jobs, finally getting housing. Theyre often moving in and conflicting directly with these workingclass ethnic neighborhoods. Dan carter, so much was going on in civil rights in alabama during his first tenure as governor in 19631967, including the bombing of the church in birmingham and the killing of the four young girls. What was his reaction to that . That was one of the most typical moments, i think, for him at the time. I do not doubt one moment that he was genuinely horrified, particularly when it happened. He told lingo, the head of the state police, do what you have to do to find out who did this. It changed, i think partly because governor wallace reacted. I think after a few weeks although he continued to insist he was trying to get to the bottom of this, a privately claimed too many individuals that may be blacks had set these bombs or communist had set these bombs. It showed how difficult it was, i think, for it him to for have to deal with it, but it was not his finest hour. What was his relationship with conner . An ambivalent one. Conner was a loose cannon. He certainly found bull connor a useful ally during the heights of the Civilrights Movement and birmingham demonstrations. He never made any real effort to rein connor in. George wallace served as governor of alabama from 1963 1967 and again from 19691971. He died when he was 79 years old. The lived in this mansion behind us for putting of his life. The next call comes from san diego. Good evening. I wanted to know what kind of relationship did governor wallace have with Lyndon Johnson . Apparently Lyndon Johnson was known to persuade people. When did George Wallace finally abandon his philosophy of segregation . Thank you. Lyndon johnson the most famous moment between Lyndon Johnson Lyndon Johnson and wallace came in the midst of the selma crisis in which president johnson brought him to washington, or actually, governor wallace volunteered to meet with him where he got people treatment from Lyndon Johnson. He was pretty intimidated by the whole process, but he was not alone in that respect. Lyndon johnson intimidated everyone. That was, of course, in the early 1960s. The last hurrah for the kind of racial Campaign Came in 1970 against albert brewer, who had been one of his proteges. He replaced his wife as governor. In the wake of that campaign, it was a pretty all out use of the race issue, attacks that brewer was a candidate of blacks. In the aftermath of that, politically, he said to many of his aides that this was the last campaign he would be able to run like this. The public mood of voters was changing and black voters were fully enfranchised at that moment. When he emotionally chain, that, i think, really comes later on. As we discussed with dan carter a little earlier, George Kellner was governor in 1968 and lost in 1962. Here is a bit from the speeches in 1968 and 1962. If i did not have what it took to treat a man there regardless of his color, then i do not have what it takes to be governor of this great state. Today, i have stood where once Jefferson Davis stood and took an oath to my people. It is very appropriate that from the cradle of the confederacy, this very heart of the great anglosaxon southland, that today we sound the drums of freedom as the generations before us have done time and again. Let us rise to the cause of freedom and send our answer in the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth. I draw a line in the dust and i say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever. Dan carper, the power of those words. Pretty amazing. It really got him the first serious national attention. His aides worked very hard to make sure all the networks were there. It was the first stage in think took him out of a position of being a narrow, parochial, southern politician and put him on the national stage. Asa carter, one of his unofficial a6 had been a one of this artificial aids had been and became the writer of a number of best selling novels under the name forrest carter. Danny in mississippi, you are on the contenders. Thank you. My question is as farfetched as it might seem, at what if George Wallace would have been elected president . I know there would have been compromise on both sides, but you think he would have been a good president . Would the people have supported him . I will hang up and listen to what you gentlemen say. The only time that he even, i think, stood a chance of being elected was not in 1968, but 1972, and it would have been an extraordinarily long shot. Certainly he would have been a different president than he was campaigner. I cannot imagine him being an effective president because although there were 25 of the American People, mostly white americans, who supported him, he always had the great hostility of well over half the American People. It is hard to govern under those circumstances. Dan carter, was George Wallace religious . Yes. He was a lifelong methodist. It is interesting, during these years, the 1960s and 1970s, about the only time he even talked about religion even in an indirect way was when he ran in 1962 he did say he was taking liquor out of the Governors Mansion because big jim folsom, his mentor, had not taken liquor out of the Governors Mansion. He talked about it in terms of being a christian that he was. To do that he was going to do it. Politicians just did not do that during that time. With all the campaigns he ran, did he enjoyed politics . Hubert humphrey was the happy warrior. Was he a happy warrior . Absolutely. He would not have been successful, i do not think. Any good politician, i think, have to more than tolerate it. In his case, you would have to be a psychiatrist to figure out each politician, but i think he enjoyed the adulation of the crowd. It was a kind of love affair between him and many of his constituency. He was enormously popular in alabama. He loved that feeling of people supporting him. Here is more prom his 1963 gubernatorial inaugural address. Each state within its own framework has the freedom to teach, develop, to ask for and received help from others. This is a great freedom from our american founding fathers, but if we give up one unit as advocated by the communist philosophers, then the enrichment of our lives, the freedom of our development dissolves forever dissolves for ever. Dissolves for ever. We stand for everything and for nothing. We respect the separateness of others and are divided in an effort that has been so twisted and destroyed that there is no wonder that communism is today winning the world. The negro citizens of alabama will work with us from the separate racial station as we will work with him to develop, to grow in individual freedom and enrichment. We want jobs and a future for both races. We want to help the physically and mentally sick of both races. The firm and the and firm. This is the basic patent of tenets of our religion. Dan carper, that was from the same speech same speech as segregation now, separation segregation now, segregation tomorrow. He made a few changes from the original. That does not sound like asa carter, that sounds more like George Wallace. It is an attempt to take a little bit of the edge of the harshness of the speech itself. It is an interesting part of that speech. It becomes a constant motif, and that is the reference to communism. We do not think about that so much today in terms of anything except the cold war, spies. But for white southerners and Many Americans around the country. And Many Americans around the country, the Civil Rights Movement was an act of congress. It is hard to remember how frightened americans were and how much they believed the communist infiltration had taken place. Civil rights seem to be a place they would operate. Its was a useful weapon against the movement to emphasize that. What George Wallaces running mate in 1968 was air force general, curtis lemay. Our next call comes from oakland, maryland. Good evening. How are you doing . Good. I remember in 1972 as a College Student at Allegheny College in cumberland, md. , he came to the campus one day. The following day he was shot at the world mall. What i can remember of that is i read about something that does not seem to be talked about much. He went through a major transition after this. I think i read that he did talk openly about it and had some sort of religious conversion so predict conversion somewhat. Also, i can remember seeing him received an award from alabamas naacp. That was in his last term as governor, i think. Am i wrong on that or not . I can remember actually watching that and i was amazed to see the transformation from segregationist to basically receiving that type of recognition. Thank you very much. We are going to be discussing all of that throughout the evening on the contenders. Give us a snapshot of what harry was speaking about. If you want to know what happens with whites attitudes towards race, just followed George Wallaces career. He was a hard segregationists, using the race issue in the 1960s, but by the 1970s and after he was assessed nearly assassinated, and as the whole political structure changed and blacks came to pay a larger larger role in the Democratic Party i think he was a different person. Very quickly, the 1972 campaign how was he doing prior to getting shot . George wallace in 1972 was out polling everyone up through may in the primaries. George mcgovern had emerged in the eyes of the National Media as the candidate. He sort of brushed aside the other candidates. But in terms of votes, up until the day he was shot, governor wallace had considerably more votes than George Mcgovern did. The next call for our guest, dan carter, the offer of this book the politics of rage, comes from montana. Charles, you are on the contenders. Was he influenced by huey long at all . Did he ever think about running for federal Office Senate or the house . Most likely senate . No. He claims he was not employed by long at all. I think that is probably unlikely. The was certainly familiar with the career of long. He really was not interested in running for the United States senate. I think he could easily have been elected. At one time the talked about it and thought about it, but he was much more comfortable in alabama. He said why would i want to go to washington and the want of 100 senators when i could be governor of alabama . [unintelligible] yes. That would have been pretty common. Lyndon johnson used the n word. It was common among leaders in southern politics privately. There were a couple of times when he slipped up and used it publicly as well, but that was not typical at all. I think much more important than whether you whether you used the nword Lyndon Johnson did, but often i get a different kind of context the real problem was the extent to which this man had been a racial moderate and had been on the trustees of Tuskegee University in the early 1950s. He told someone blacks are going to vote in this day and i want to be on the ground floor. Of course, currents of change. That was by the late 1950s. I think the tragedy is that someone who had these empathetic feet feelings for both black and whites let himself be caught up politically and emotionally in the racial currents of the 1960s. Yes, there was a time it was pretty nasty business, i think. Right here in alabama, florence, alabama, tina. You are on the contenders. Hello. I enjoyed mr. Carters book. I wanted to ask a question about mr. George wallace. Is his shooter still in prison . Did they gas him or was he shot . Arthur bremer was the very mentally disturbed young man who shot governor wallace. They actually wanted to shoot president nixon, but he could not get close enough to president nixon. He essentially was released. He is now, after many years i cannot remember the exact date, 2007. I remember i was approached in 1999 about eight statement for his parole hearing. He was turned down at that time. Is only in the last four years after all those years that he has been released. Lets go back to 1965. George wallace is governor. He is living here at this Governors Mansion in montgomery, alabama. Governor martin lived rev. Martin luther king had been pastor of a church at one block from the Alabama State capital. There are marches from selma to montgomery. Very quickly, dr. Carter, why are these marches happening and what were their defects . The broader context was a Voter Registration effort on the part of africanamericans. There were a whole series of these violent incidents. There was an assault on some demonstrators in marion, alabama in which one young man was killed by a state trooper. That was really the triggering episode they began to talk about some way to demonstrate how angry and frustrated they were. There was the first attempt to march from selma to montgomery. That was the that turned out to be a disaster, in some ways, at least nationally or governor wallace because there were Television Cameras there. Violence does not happen unless it is on television, at least in terms of the great impact it had. John lewis and others attempted to walk from Browns Chapel in selma across the bridge towards montgomery. They were met by the Alabama State troopers. Under the orders of governor wallace . Under the orders of governor wallace. It was never clear what those orders were, but they stopped them. They thought it meant stop them by any means. You had a bunch of deputies who were anxious to do a little headcracking. That is what happened. In just a second, we are going to show you some news reels from 1965 and show you some of the news about those marches from selma, which is 100 or so miles from where we sit now in montgomery. Then we are going to introduce you to George Wallaces daughter, peggy lawless kennedy. She is inside the mansion. Here is the 1965 new israel. Selma sprang overnight from an obscure southern town to the front pages of newspapers. This church was headquarters for the negro drive. The right to vote. This is where Martin Luther king came to lend his support support to the campaign. Only a few more than 300 negroes have been registered at the polls. One group set out to march to the capital at montgomery. The procession was broken up violently by state troopers and deputies. Dr. King led another contingent through the town. This time, there is no violence. The 1000 negroes and 400 white ministers and a civilrights workers reached the end of the bridge where the state troopers stood. There were ordered to turn back. Dr. King confers with the police as the marchers hold their ground the past that they be allowed to pray. There are a few minutes of a few minutes of mounting tension. The request kouprey is granted and they kneeled in the street. The request to pray is granted and they kneeled in the street. The march finally gets under way as dr. Martin became addresses the crowd at the starting point. Twice before the marchers had been turned back by state troopers, now they march under a federal court order and with protection of National Guard units and federal troops 3000 men. There are 2300 marchers in line. Highway 80 is closed to traffic. The martyrs have been ordered to reduce their numbers to 300, a measure designed for their safety. There are a few isolated flare ups between whites and negroes, but otherwise the demonstration is peaceful. The first day the marchers go a little over 7 miles. They wanted to present a petition to governor George Wallace. You are now looking at a picture of the conclusion of the third selma to montgomery march. It finished up on dexter avenue right in front of the state capital. The dexter Avenue Baptist Church where dr. Martin luther king pastored in the 50s is located a block from the state capital. Recently, cspan took some video of the same site. This picture was taken about a month or so ago. It is about two miles north of where we are now. We are, right now, at the governors mentioned in montgomery, alabama. We are inside the foyer. We are joined by George Wallaces daughter, Peggy Wallace kennedy. We played as israels 1965. What are your memories . You live in the south at the time. Yes, i was here. I was the 15years old. I can remember what went on and everything. Of course, at that time i did not really have an opinion, but i did go to selma in 2009 and marched across Edmund Pettus bridge. Even back in 1965, i knew that their cause was just and i was able to walk across that bridge with my husband and children. What was life like here in the Governors Mansion . It is a great house. When we moved in, my mother made it a home. Lurleen. Yes. She made it a home. We had a lot of happy times here. We take from a small town and moved to the big city to this wonderful house that my mother made a home. It was wonderful. It really was a wonderful place to live. How where were you of your fathers reputation outside of alabama, some of the controversial things people said about him . I was not aware of that. I was just trying to live a normal life. If you can imagine. My mother was the kind of person that tried to keep us as normal as we could be, a normal life. School and that kind of thing. I really was not aware. Do you as a child of the governor have a state trooper followed you around all the times or were you free to come and go as you wanted . We were free to come and go as we wanted. How often was your father around . He was running alabama, he was running our president throughout your childhood. He was in and out, but i grew up in a political family. It was normal for me to not see him often. When you do not know anything any different, it is ok. My mother was gone a lot, too. Peggy Wallace Kennedy here in the foyer of the govs mansion in montgomery, alabama. These steps pretty meaningful. A couple of different incidences on these steps. Lets begin with santa. I believe this was 1970 or 1971. It was 1971. My father dressed up like santa claus and i sat on his knee. That is a picture i will always cherish. What was he like behind closed doors . What was he like as a dad . He was busy. He was always really busy. He ate fast. He walked fast. But he was a wonderful dad when you could get with him, you know. The time you had with him, you had to get the quality time and that was fine, too. Something else important happened on the steps. What was that . We got married. Also, when we first lived moved in here, my brother and i slid down the banister into a tour group. My mother was very angry about that. I got married and had my wedding reception here. We would be remiss if you did not talk a little bit more about your mother, lurleen wallace, or governor wallace. How did she get elected governor . I think the people just loved her. Was voting for your dad . Well, i think that probably he thought so. When she was elected, she certainly let him know who with the governor, i can assure you. What happened to her . She had cancer and died in may of 1968. She spent 15 months in office. After that, between 1968 and 1971 when your father was reelected, or 1970 when he was reelected moved back in at in 71 what did your father do . He remarried in 1971. We moved back in. There is a little apartment in the back of the Governors Mansion. I married in 1973, so i was only here for two years. Between 19681970, where did you move too . We had a home that my mother had bought. Where it was he practicing law or running for president . He was running. That is what he was doing. We have your husband and your son over here. If we could just turn the camera over and show them very quickly so we can wave at them over there. Tell us about your husband. We have been married for 38 years. He has spent 22 years in public service. The retired from the alabama Supreme Court in 1999. He is now a state chairman of the Democratic Party. My youngest son is a history major at the university of alabama. Our oldest son is serving in afghanistan right now. Peggy Wallace Kennedy, as anyone played up the irony of a wallace marrying a kennedy . Yes, they have. When we got engaged, senator ted kennedy wrote my father a letter saying he was really glad that the kennedys and the wallaces could finally get together. I have that letter. Peggy will be joining us a little later in the program. Thank you for spending a few minutes with us. We will work our way back out to the set. We will be joined by joe lee joe reed, the chairman of the alabama democratic conference, along with our other guests. Wallace by robert, dan carter. The next call is from houston. Joe, you are on the air. Go ahead, joe from houston. I have a question. Had George Wallace not been shot in 1970 to 1972, would he have run as a thirdparty candidate . I have another candidate another question. In 1976 if he had defeated jimmy carter in farda, how far would he have gone in the democratic nomination process . The third party in 1972 and what could have happened in 1976. In 1972, of course, he was shot and severely wounded. He did go to the democratic conviction convention, but it is pretty clear his health suffered from being shot. He was not a serious factor in 1972. In 1976, americans have a pretty short life span toward politicians. Everybody kept talking about the relationship between governor wallaces campaign and president roosevelt, who, of course, campaigned from a wheelchair and was president in a wheelchair. The difference was that in the 1930s there was an agreement on the part of the media that he would never be photographed in a wheelchair. Most americans simply did not realize how severely crippled a he had been by polio crippled he had been by polio. In 1976, every single moment the cameras were on. There were a couple of incidences, one in which he was dropped. It really emphasized the fact that he was in a wheelchair. Even apart from that, one of the things that make governor wallace so effective was his feisty kind of bravado that he had. He did not walk across the stage, he started across the. Tage, ofte in a wheelchair, it was not possible to do that. Now we want to introduce you to dr. Joe reed who is chairman of the alabama democratic conference. He also works for the Alabama Education association. Dr. Reid, what is your first memory of George Wallace . The first memory i have a George Wallace was back in the 19 was back in 1958. I had just come from korea and George Wallace was running for governor. It was 1958 when i first heard of him. Do you remember what the memory is . He was very vocal. At that time, he did not have any anything that any other southern politician had at that time. All were running against the Supreme Court decision in 1954. They all said they were going to maintain segregation. They all claimed that they could do what the law insisted that they could not do. They all insisted they could get around the law. What was your life like in alabama in 1958 in 1958 . Like most other black folks in the south. For example, segregation, and even though the Supreme Court had ruled in brown vs. The board of education, that we were all mindful of the strom bermans decision in 1910 Strom Thurmonds decision in 1948. Blacks had achieved a great victory there. Things were looking up. Were you able to vote in 1958 . 1958 i was able to vote in 1958. I was from a small county between montgomery and mobile. Veterans did not have a problem getting registered to vote in 1958 in conecuh county. There was a share of the day share today there was a sheriff there who took on the establishment. The went out and help blacks get registered to vote. This was before 1958. He died in 1956. Blacks did not constitute a threat. At that particular time, being a veteran, that was not a major problem. Dr. Reid, what did you do at the Alabama Education association . I am the associate secretary at the Alabama Education association. I have been privileged to serve that Organization Since 1964. I came over from the black association in 1964. The Alabama State Teachers Association there were 11 Southern States that had associations in the south from virginia to texas. I came i can on as the as active secretary at that time. Dane dan carter refer to this a couple of times. The schoolhouse stand. Lets see this video of George Wallace followed by president kennedy. Unwanted intrusion on the campus of the university of alabama, the day might of the Central Government offers a example of the oppression of this state, offices of the federal government. This afternoon, following a series of threats and defiant statements, the president of alabama National Guardsmen will be fired on the university of alabama to carry out the unequivocal order of the United States District Court of the Northern District of alabama. In that order calls for the ignition of two qualified alabama residents who happened to have been born negro. What do you remember about that incident in 1963 . We were glad to see president kennedy, on. He was very simple. We always thought he was going to lose. He had lost races before that time, particularly in 1959 and 1960, when he had the confrontation with jerry Frank Johnson. A lot of folks forget the civil rights deal in 1967, that particular civilrights deal, which came under president eisenhower, allows the president to report to appoint a commission to come in and investigate and investigate discrimination carry it. Because blacks and tuskegee alabama cannot get rights to vote, the committee came and did an investigation. George wallace refused to turn over records to them. George Frank Johnson jr. Was the presiding judge. He ordered it turned over to the civilrights commission so they could complete their investigation for it. That was one of the early times George Wallace misled the voters again in alabama, thinking he could do things he could not do. Kerry in west virginia, welcome to the program. Are like to think seized and for showing us the Governors Mansion. I would also like to know about his relationship with j. Edgar hoover. How was wallace monitored and did he have an opinion of hoover . About his relationship with j. Edgar hoover and whether or not he was monitored . Not really. Not in the sense that subversives work. That subversives were. Governor wallace constantly praised mr. Hoover and relied upon him, particularly for information about the socalled links between Civil Rights Activists and communists. Hoover was always leery of wallace. In part because i do not think he could control him. As a result, hoover always told his men to keep a handsoff. As a result, there was a distant relationship between the two of them. Dan carter is the author of this book. Look at the picture on the cover of the book. That is from the inaugural address of 1963. The state capital, two miles from where we are right now. Randall in stockton, calif. , howre you doing . As the son of a civil rights leader who came across in 1963, i want to know why he was allowed why he would not let the rest of his counterparts, cross the bridge . And when they did, there was national outrage. The bottom line is, was governor wallace in cahoots with the congress to conspire for us not to come across the bridge . I want to know the answer to that. I did not get his question. Did you hear his question . Yes. Lets go ahead. If the market if the marchers crossed the bridge, regardless of the Television Cameras, and there are always Television Cameras set up there, it would be a facesaving loss for governor wallace. He made it clear he was not going to allow it. He told al lingo, who was in the state troopers, and he also told a major cloud, who was in charge of the troopers at the time, that there were not to be allowed to march. They took them very seriously. At that point, there were ready to go with teargas, mounted men from a posse. And they did not. Governor wallace was more concerned, at that time, about showing his fellow travelers, his supporters, his friends, that he was going to let the black folks the cave. I am going to stop them at all costs. If he had allowed the march to continue, a lot of things would probably have never happened, including his chances in the 1965 Voting Rights act. I am sure other stations carry it too, they showed people being beaten in selma. Other things happened during that same time. Windows to white ministers were killed. I forget their names. And when the white clergy also got involved in this, they started demanding that something happened. They started coming into alabama. When the white clergy got involved, the white house got even more upset. Those things, in my opinion, were the major factors in terms of responding to wallaces resistance to the march. If he had just left it alone, it would have turned out differently. What was your lover of activity in the Civilrights Movement in the 1960s . I was not at the bridge. This was in 1965. I was with the Alabama State Teachers Association. We supported the movement, provided resources for the movement, were actively involved are local chapter in alabama was led by reverend least by reverend reese. They came to the Alabama State Teachers Association and we went to washington to elicit held to elicit help from the National Association the national Education Association to get involved and ensure that our members got the right to vote. We showed to the club from 1963, the school house incident. Here is George Wallace in 1967 talking about that incident and a little bit on the new riots that were occurring after it if i said we are further obligated to oppose any where we find them. A little over three years ago, we stood at the university of alabama. We oppose the entered we oppose the enemies of freedom. To use that stand to say that those in high places in washington cannot reconstitution. We warned of the coming lawlessness that would sweep our nation and adversely affect our citizens. The worst race violence since los angeles two years ago. At least 24 persons are killed. More than 1800 wounded. Despite patrolling by city and state police, millions of dollars of Property Damage is done. Cleanouts closed shops in the ghetto districts. Any vehicle is a target for the mob. Two days after beginning, police are augmented by National Guardsmen. Gov. Skews terms terms the rebellion open and rioting. Fire from open windows kills policemen, a fire captain shot in the back, and several bystanders for it scores of police, troopers, guardsmen, and civilians are wounded current officials said the strikers, some believe it not to be residents, used guns stolen from a rifle factory. Even machine guns were used. Because of widespread looting, the emergency food centers are set out to supply milk, bread, and cereal to terrorize residents. Looters are dealt with swiftly. 8 10 00 that 6 00 curfew is clamped on. While new york struggles to restore peace and order, it spreads to nearby suburban towns, where a policeman is beaten to death and violence is reported. A state under siege. And back live in montgomery, alabama. Dan carter, the race riots of the 19671968 period, what effect they have on toward wallaces campaign for governor . You can get some idea of what effect it had for it much of it is hyperbolic. A lot of the claims that were made were extraordinarily serious. All of the talk about snipers was pretty much disapproved. A lot of shooting. A lot of violence. Even the music, everything about it, gives the impression that the nation is under siege. Although there is absolutely no connection between the race riots, which had to do with poverty, had to do with the conditions in the inner cities, in the minds of Many Americans, the Civil Rights Movement and the rights of the 1960s are all blended together. They are rebellion against authority. And the distinction of one, the Civil Rights Movement is going to be nonviolent, rely on non violence, and the other is this spattering of outburst of violence. It is quite different. The connection is there. What do you remember about april 4, 1968 . That was the day he was shot. I remember going by dr. Levi watkins office at Alabama State university in montgomery. I walked in his office and he said, dr. King has been shot. That is what i remember. I was also involved in the City Movement as another effort on the part of this growing resistance on the part of black folks and the unwillingness to continue to accept segregation. You had the sit in movement, the freedom rides, all of these things where blacks are demanding that now, and of course would be riots taking place in certain places, which dr. King always condemned, he saw this as a threat to white wellbeing. Did you ever meet George Wallace . Yes. I met him many times. I do not remember the first time i met governor wallace, i really do not. I do remember him speaking to the alabama Teachers Association. And that may have been the first time i shook his head. He signed a bill. This was in the 1970s when we did that. I was always very critical of governor wallace. He said to me one time, you have always been critical as meat critical of me but you were never mad at me. We had a bill we are trying to get him to sign. It was to register people to vote any time. The voter registrars across the state of alabama were against it. We ask him to sign the bill. He went on and signed the bill. Yes, we talked many times in the last years. Will get on to that later in our program. I wondered if mr. Carter could comment on how the racial politics of rage in the 1950s and 1960s may have morphed into the current hard right stance of the tea party on issues like gay marriage and illegal immigration. This might not be surrogate issues for people whose Racial Attitudes have not changed, but it is not in fashion to speak publicly about that. Wow. That is really a tough one. To draw a direct connection. We do not have the same kind of language about race that we once had. Weekends off all we want to about political correctness. The fact is, it is politically incorrect to engage in any kind of racist language. But we do have this long tradition in the United States, in this very cantankerous democracy, of selecting scapegoats, groups that seem to represent a violation of what the cultural norms are that a family felt. Whether that is the issue of prayer in the schools, the issue of gay marriage, in economic hard times, whether it is the issue of immigrants and so called job challenges that are threatening the jobs of americans, there is a connection in the sense that we want an enemy. That enemy may be African Americans at some point, it may be other groups. Unfortunately, it is one of the darker sides of american history. George wallace ran for president in 1964. In 1968, he captured five states and 46 electoral votes. He also ran in 1972 and 1976. Next call is from tampa bay florida. Hello, mike. Mike from tampa bay, please go ahead. I had a cathartic experience tonight as a Young American watching these old clips of the old clips being played. It gives me hope to see how divergent cultures have come together in the clips and a great sense of hope to see how our political differences might be able to be bridged today. How politics changed in alabama . Yes. Politics in alabama has changed. One thing we have to keep in mind racism, i do not think, as Martin Luther king jr. Said, the white will in this country, the death of racism. All of these things are still part of dyed in the wool racism that exists today not only in alabama but in other places of the country triet that is part of the question that the gentleman raised. He was talking about how politics have changed. What is the alabama democratic conference . There were filed in 1964 the purpose of helping john f. Kennedy. Blacks were shut out of the Democratic Party in alabama at that time. We were still struggling and had not got the right to vote until the mid1960s. Leaders were trying to get a voice in the Democratic Party. The alabama democratic conference was set out for that reason. They set out to do two things to get white political leaders attention, that was one of the things, and also to unify the black vote so that we could make politicians behavior. It was that kind of thing that we were working on. That is what the democratic conference was about and is still about today. 1968 was George Wallaces best run for governor for president. One of the issues confronting the people is the breakdown of law and order. They are apologizing today and sang it comes about as a result of welfare payments, job opportunities, education, etc. The average man on the street knows that it comes about because of activists, militants, revolutionaries, and artists, and communists. If more the president , i would give my strong moral support to the local Police Officers of this country and local Law Enforcement and say, you enforce the law and i can tell you that a fire or the president of the United States, you could walk on the streets in any section of what nbc at any time of washington d. C. At any time and i would make it possible if i had to bring 30,000 troops in washington. We are going to make this a core of the citizens of washington d. C. And. It is a sad moment that in the nations capital, you are fearful of walking out of this hotel. This is not race im talking about. Every time i mention this, they say this has racial overtones. Where does a company of racial overtones to stand for law and order . Newsmen have indicated so long that the people in our state who defended the right of the state to determine their local School Systems believe in separation. That is, racial separation. We have had more mangling an association of the races in alabama. I would say that any large state above the masondixon line. When you talk about segregation, we have supported, in the past, a separate school system. But as far as working and commingling together, we have done more of that than the people of any other region in the country. One reason we have had more peace in our region has been that people of all races are needed and wanted in alabama. So i still stand for the right of the people of alabama, through their elected representatives, to determine their policies of the school system. Joe reed, your reaction to governor wallace speaking in 1968. If he is talking about desegregating, it is because of jerry frank m. Johnson, who was the architect. Then we had the lee vs. Macon decision, which accounted for 100 schools. It is a tribute to the fact that the federal government and black leaders, the naacp, and other organizations, went out and risk Everything Else to desegregate public education. Dan carter, when you hear the words law and order, and militants, are those code words . Absolutely. They do not like this year, they do not like this here, but television plays a Critical Role in the political will process in the political process. You are aware that everywhere youre saying is being captured on film. You have to be careful. It is the sense of political correctness. You have to be careful about how you say it. You learn a different language. It is the language in which you, which out without ever referring specifically to race, talk about race. Nobody was better at it than governor wallace. Whenever he wanted to complain about the federal government and forcing housing, non discrimination, he did not talk about them making African Americans living closer to you, he talked about blueeyed china men. Theyre going to keep them make them come into your neighborhood. And everybody knew what he was talking about. 1968, Richard Nixon, 301 electoral vote. Hubert humphrey, 191 electoral votes. Hubert humphrey won 13 straight 13 states. George wallace won five states. Who won the black vote in 1968 . It was Hubert Humphrey. Do you remember who you voted for . I was cochaired for the National Committee of educators. That was the first time that blacks went to the Democratic National convention. I was privileged enough to go because the chairman had arranged that. That was the convention of 1968. I was a prohumphrey person. I knew him personally. We achieved what we wanted to achieve to get nominated. We did not succeed in getting him elected. We are in front of the Governors Mansion in montgomery, alabama, where George Wallace lived for 20 of his life. 16 years he lived here. This is our 12th week of the contenders. We have two weeks left. I have a question. I began my address in politics when i was 10 years old area i worked through the American Independent Party in pennsylvania as a volunteer. Even though we did not have a great deal of support in pennsylvania, he had a strong base of support in the philadelphia area. My question for dr, carter is in, in what was his relationship, as far as Richard Nixon . The alabama republicans have backed him during the civil rights crisis. Congressman Bill Dickinson was a strong wallace supporter. He was one of the early republicans in alabama. I was wondering, what did wallace think of Richard Nixon and did he ever endorsed Richard Nixon for president . Dan carter. He did not think much of Richard Nixon. Particularly after 1968, because in 1970, when governor wallace was running, his wife had died. He was going to run against former governor wallace. Richard nixon put 400,000 in secret cash into the brewer campaign. It did not stay a secret very long. Governor wallace always suspected that Richard Nixon was trying to destroy him, which he was, because nixon saw wallace as his greatest threat in 1972. He made every effort that he could and governor wallace was aware of that. In your book, in the 1972 campaign, George Wallace started strong before he was shot, correct . Absolutely. He got more votes at the end of the day he was shot. He had more votes than any other democratic candidate at the time. I do not think he would have got a nomination, but it was a tremendous problem for the Democratic Party. After he was shot in 1972, Richard Nixon went to see him, correct . That is correct. Who else went to see him . Hubert humphrey went to see him, George Mcgovern went to see him, at the kennedy went to see him. In her case, it was a sense of compassion after what had happened. In other cases, it was the politics of it. They would like to have his support. Nixon did more than go and see him go. He manipulated the shooting of governor wallace by trying to blame trying to link the man shot him to George Mcgovern. De remember when joe wallace when George Wallace was shot . I learned of it at my office. My sympathy went out to the Wallace Family as well as everybody else. It was a horrible thing to happen. I remember it very well. I went to the Democratic Convention in 1972 where George Wallace was. He was trying to make his way. When he was shot and paralyzed, that ended his political career as a president ial candidate. On the other hand, he continued to run for office and hold office in alabama as governor. Of course, after the shooting, and after he was paralyzed for so long, i think that is where he really got his political conversion we will get into that. Governor wallace served as governor of alabama from 1963 1967, from 19711979, and from 19831987. He ran the 1976 campaign. How long did that last . There was another southerner in the campaign jimmy carter. Carter did not have some of the baggage the governor wallace had. Moreover, he was running in the aftermath of watergate. This is where the really gets into the campaign. The it ran as a highly moral person who is going to restore moral integrity in the white house. In so many better ways with his own progressive record as governor of georgia, he proved a better candidate than then governor wallace. The best example was that the primary in florida where governor wallace lost to jimmy carter, that pretty much finished him. Pensacola, place for holding. You are on the contenders. If George Wallace is the topic this week. I remember as a 10yearold boy when George Wallace got shot. It was a various brigid very devastating day to me as a youngster. It was a very devastating day to me as a youngster. You know how the president ial people have their money backers how did he raise is money to run for office . The other questions i have i know he has a son who is in political office. Does he have any desire to run for governor at all . There was some big money, but by and large, George Wallace, you can like him or dislike him, but he was an extraordinarily successful campaigner fund raiser of small contributions. He got millions of dollars in small amounts 5, 10, 20. He was never really backed by the big money individuals. I will let dr. Reid talk about George Wallace jr. The ramp for states senator. He is his son. He ran for state senator. He is his son. The democratic conference endorsed him. Of course, the later on switch to the Republican Party and we opposed him. Over all, he was a nice fellow. He is currently a republican, right . He is currently a republican. Peggy Wallace Kennedy is the honorary chairperson of the Democratic Party. I think that is what she told us earlier. Is the chair of the Democratic Party of the state of alabama. Bottom line is that George Wallace jr. Did run for the state treasury. In fact, the day we endorsed him, George Wallace sr. Came to the alabama democratic conference convention. The rest is history. We want to show you one more ad from one more piece of video from 1968. Why are more and more americans turning to governor wallace . Follow us across town. As cravaack, i shall within the law turn back the absolute control of thebes educational system to the people of the states. Why are more and more americans started to governor wallace . See what might happen. As president , i will stand up for your local police and firemen in protecting your safety and property. Why are more and more americans turning to governor wallace . Watch your hard earned tax dollars sail away to anti American Companies countries. As president , i will halt the giveaway of our American Products to countries. Give him your support. Our next call comes from tony in pleasantville, n. Y. Tony, you are on the contenders. I was 21years old, in 1968 and part of the navy. I am 65 now, but over the years i supported George Wallace. Currently eight ron paul supporter. I went to a rally in 1968 at Madison Square gardens. George wallace and his Vice President ial candidate, curtis lemay. The 21 minute standing ovation by a sellout crowd. During the presentation, there were some hecklers wake up in the far reaching seats, about six or seven of them. You could see the lights from the cameras. When the event was over, the local news they only had three cameras in those days the only thing the reported were the three hecklers. Outside Madison Square garden, there were 50 mounted police expecting riots by the people. What i learned at this valley at this rally at is how unfairly the media treats thirdparty candidates. Cspan was not around in 1968, but if cspan was around in 1968, George Wallace would have done better. In 1972, if he was not shot, he had a good chance at winning. Tony, lets leave it there. Dan carter, but what the American Independent Party George Wallace was running on. What is the role of the media in 1968 . Congratulations. You are the first person i have talked to who was at that rally, which was a pretty remarkable rally. There is a lot of film footage, which we were able to use in a documentary we did on governor wallace. Although i think you are right, most of the time the media tends to dismiss a third party candidates. Part of its it is bay like confrontation. There were part of it is they actually like confrontation. There were demonstrators giving hitler salutes. That is a colorful news. That is often what these media white where as the speeches themselves they were not going to show a 21 minute ovation. You are exactly right. He received a 21 minute ovation. Dr. Reid, it looked like you were about to add something. We will move to our next call from North Carolina. Good evening. I just had a question about George Wallaces pre legislative activities before he got involved with the legislature of alabama. Was he not a lawyer for some people involved in the assassination of attorney general John Paterson and things of that nature . No. That does not ring any bells at all. Dr. Reed, if George Wallace was alive today, would he be a republican or a democrat . I think he would be a democrat. I really do. I do not think he liked the republicans. Out of all his running, he was always a democrat in alabama. I think he would have stayed a democrat. I do not think he would have changed. I do not know. I think it is clear that his heart in some ways with the policies of the Democratic Party, particularly economic policies. On the other hand, he was pretty hostile towards the National Government and its activities. It is possible that may have led him, certainly at the was running for office in alabama who would be running as a republican. That is the only way he would get elected. George wallace was elected in 1970 and in 1974 to the Gubernatorial Office here in alabama. He ran for president in 1972 and 1976. In 1982, he said i have been wrong about the race issue. I think that after he was shot governor wallaces entire political career for the last few years was based, embedded, sanctioned, guided by race. I do not think pete lost i do not and he lost the race to John Paterson because the nword was used to much. I. John patterson would have defeated wallace anyway, because his father was shot are trying to clean up and cities. Governor wallace was not going to beat him either way. John patterson was a prosecutor. He knew how to go after things. Go back to 1982. Your question was whether or not by george was book George Wallace said he was wrong about the race issue. I think he meant that. He felt he had been punished. If he had been in a wheelchair over a quarter of a century. You have to look back and say why am i here . Why am i going through this . I really believe that he went through this conversion. George wallace is one of the few politicians who had run encore segregation platforms. The publicly repudiated segregation. He said i was wrong. In 1982 after that, did you vote for him for governor . I voted for these trait government straight democratic ticket. The Alabama Republican Congress did not endorse George Wallace. We supported george mcmillan. George mcmillan lost in the primary. There were blacks running for county commission, blacks running for the legislature, blacks running for everything. We always vote the straight democratic ticket because there was no republican out there. Somebody raised the question is the vote about race, live and let the. That is what happened. The alabama democratic conference never endorsed wallace. We are in front of the Governors Mansion outside in buggery, alabama where George Wallace lived. In montgomery, alabama where George Wallace live. I went in the marine corps in 1970. I left shakeri, pa. , got down to the south, and was amazed at how southerners were treating everybody. I saw the movie help which was a picture of what the south was like. The ways that the blacks were subjugated was phenomenal. It was a terrific movie. Another movie that has to be mentioned is waiting for superman. You hear about how the teacher unions are giving this idea of what is happening. I teach as a substitute teacher in california. The deaths in mississippi, the complete destruction of society. I looked at detroit, ive looked all over. How much of his retirement after 47 years as a teacher if you look at what the teacher unions have done to this country. John. You are getting a little off topic. We appreciate your call. We would get an honest answer we will get an answer for you burry quickly. Speak about the Education Association and respond to his comments very quickly. The Alabama Education association as it exists now is a combination of the black and white teachers come together in 1969. For 42 years we have been very successful. Protecting tenure, defending our member rights in court. We are still fighting for the right of teachers in alabama. It is one of the most effective associations in the country. I can tell you one thing if George Wallace was still active in politics, he would not be attacking teachers or the teachers unions. The was he thought it was important. I think it is a reflection of how there are many similarities between the kind of conservatism George Wallace helped to create and today, in which suddenly teachers who are really not paid that much, who really do not get vast pensions suddenly become another one of the scapegoats of society. Governor wallace would not have done that. That collor also mention the movie the help. Was your impression of it . It is a recreation of what it was like in this world in which black and white, i am particularly middleclass and uppermiddleclass southerners, altman had connection to blacks, but it was always in this supported that position. In a subordinate position. I think the film does a good job of explaining that relationship. The city of Montgomery Alabama rosa parks began her bus protest here. Dr. Martin luther king preached at the dexter avenue king memorial baptist church, which is one block from the state capital where George Wallace announced on jan. Porting, 1963, segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. You can see a lot of these different exhibits here in the city as well. The next call for our guests comes from poughkeepsie, new york. Nick, you are on the contenders. Ok. We are going to move on from neck. We will move palace we will move south to georgia. John, you are on the contenders. My question is for mr. Carter. Getting back to the 1972 election and his choice of curtis lemay as his running mate i was just courteous curious as to what motivated him to make that selection and what their relationship was . Thank you very much. That was in 1968 . He thought that general lemay would bring in a lot of a veterans voters. In the 1960s, there was still a huge number of veterans from world war no. 2 world war ii and korea he thought putting a respectable general like curtis lemay on the ticket would help them draw a lot of these voters in. It would also draw in the hardliners who wanted to suppress the war in vietnam, even though governor wallace was sometimes a little ambivalent. I think that is the main reason. It turned out to be a disaster, but that is another story. In 1972 and 1976 he did not get close to the nominating a vicepresident ial candidate. Some of his people opposed chandler because the opposed bringing Jack Robinson into baseball. Chandler was the commissioner of baseball. Some of wallaces opponents did not want chandler on the ticket because of that. He was out of kentucky, of course. Joe, do you remember your last conversation with George Wallace . I was trying to think about that. We want to reintroduce George Wallaces daughter, peggy wallison kennedy. She joins us from inside the mansion. Mrs. Kennedy, you have been listening to our conversation. What have you heard . Well, i have heard a lot about my father. Mrs. Kennedy . Go ahead. Now we can hear you. Well, i have heard a lot about my father. I have enjoyed reminiscing a little bit. My father, to me in my heart, was not a racist. He was a politician. He is the man that i want to remember and i want my children to remember. This is a man that, in his later years, reached out for forgiveness and received that forgiveness. Do you think that he did have some racist tendencies in the 1960s . In my heart, i do not think that. I think he was just a politician. That does not make it right what he did. Like i said, that the man i want to remember one who reached out for forgiveness and received that forgiveness. Mrs. Kennedy, can you tell us about the day your father was shot . Where were you . I was in college. I attended troy university. I was sitting in a classroom and i remember looking at the clocks. I was in the classroom along waiting for a class. Alone waiting for a class. I remember looking at that particular time. When the class was over, one of my friends came to me and felt like maybe i had already heard that my father had been shot and he was ok. She said, your father is ok. He has been shot, but he must be ok. I said i did not know that. I was brought here to the mansion and driven straight flown straight to marilyn. We were talking about you a little bit earlier. You are the honorary chair of the alabama Democratic Party. Correct . No. My husband is the chair of the alabama Democratic Party. I stand by him and help him when i can. I do make some speeches at alabama Democratic Party functions. Whats your brother is now a republican, correct . Yes, he is, but i still love him very much. [laughter] if your father were alive today would he be a democrat or republican . I think he would be a democrat. If your father were alive today who would he have voted for in 2008 . Well, i think he possibly could have voted for president obama. I know that he would have been proud that i endorsed president obama and i think he would have been very proud that i marched across the Edmund Pettus bridge in 2009 with john lewis. Peggy Wallace Kennedy wrote a piece for cnn the day after the election, november 3, 2008. If you are interested, you can go to cnn and read it. It is about visiting her father s grave and having an obama at bopper sticker on her car. Albany, ga. You are on the contenders. Go ahead. Just a couple of things real quick, i know my time is limited. Number one, selma is only 4050 miles from montgomery. I grew up in selma at the time of the march. My question is for mr. Carter. At the time of the march, rumors were running rampant. A woman was giving marchers a ride back in her car when she was ambushed. It was rumored for many years that one of the marchers she was giving eight ride was an undercover fbi agent. I wonder if you have ever heard of this rumor. It was not her passenger, it was one of the individuals in the car that did the shooting was an undercover agent it was his testimony that made it possible for the immediate arrest of the people who did the shooting even though nothing much came of it. That was the situation. The person she was taking back, and i am embarrassed to say i have forgotten his name, faced being shot. He fell under her when she was shot. The car wreck and she fell on top of him. He was covered in blood. They stopped and realized she was dead at thought he was, to. In your book the politics of rage, there is a discussion about potential conspiracies with the Nixon Campaign to have shot governor wallace. Jack nelson, former bureau chief of the l. A. Times, came down and investigated it. What was the conclusion . I do not think so. I do not believe that Richard Nixon and his entourage tried to exploit the shooting. Arthur bremer we have an awful lot of information, including his diaries he wrote during this time. It is clear that this was a very mentally disturbed young man. Peggy Wallace Kennedy, after your father was shot, what was his life like as governor and his personal life . Of course, he slowed down quite a bit. I think that even though that was a tragedy for him, i do think that it helped him in a lot of ways to stop and look around and appreciate his family more and appreciate what he had more. Unfortunately, whats your father was married twice after your mother died, correct . Cornelia and lisa taylor . And divorced from both. Right. Here at the Governors Mansion here in montgomery, alabama in the back is a pole. It was put in as a gift to governor wallace after he was paralyzed because swimming would be good to him and it is in the shape of the state of alabama. Dr. Reid, the you remember your last conversation with George Wallace . I was trying to. Once he said to me, joked, a lot of people did not believe what i was doing. I believe in segregation because we were taught that way, but i was wrong. That is when he changed and at port forgiveness. I accepted his decision and accepted his statement that he was wrong. He was one of the few southern politicians ever to repudiate that. In fact, i was invited to his funeral. I did go to the church where his funeral was. I think as a christian he should have been forgiven and was forgiven. Peggy Wallace Kennedy, where are your parents buried . They are buried at lake memory cemetery. They are together. If that here in montgomery . Yes, that is here in montgomery. Dr. David carter, how did George Wallace change the National Conversation . Because he identified at this mood that was in is very early stages of conservatism. It was made possible not only by his great skills, but by circumstances over which he had no control but was able to exploit. To me, the great tragedy is that here was a person of on of enormous abilities. The politics of rage is the name of dan carpers book. The has been our guest for the next last two hours as it has joe reed, the chairman of the alabama democratic conference as well as the executive secretary of the Alabama Education association. We are very proud to have had join us peggy lawless kennedy, the daughter of George Wallace. We thank you all very much. We also want to thank governor Robert Bremer for opening up his temporary home. It has been wonderful, so thank you governor bentley. We also want to thank the Governors Mansion staff and thanks to everybody at the Alabama State Capitol Building for all their help in setting up this contenders. We are going to leave you with governor wallace in 1986, his last address to the alabama legislature. Good night. I have climbed my last political mountain, but there are still some personal pills i must climb. But for now, i must take the rope and pick and climb to another climate. Climb on until we reach our peak. I, too, will still be climbing. My fellow alabamians, i bid you a fond and effect a fond and affectionate farewell. [a the contenders, about them in who ran for the presidency had lost, saturday. South dakota senator and u. S. Ambassador did United Nations George Mcgovern. The contenders, saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. At a news conference, President Trump denied he made derogatory remarks about u. S. Troops as reported by the atlantic. Unrest,d about racial the economy, and coronavirus response. Larry kudlow also spoke briefly on the with details on some of the new august numbers