Transcripts For CSPAN The Contenders Barry Goldwater 20240712

Speakser he goes, he out on the issues. He answers exactly where he stands on domestic and foreign policy. Everywhere he goes, people are responding with enthusiasm for this new and different kind of statement. Barry goldwater has been constantly on the go. It is a grueling schedule. Whenever he can, he catches a quick nap, here with his nap peggy. And with his wife peggy. He is calling for courage and integrity and meeting problems. He is calling for an end to do nothing policies. He is calling for a rebirth of individual freedom. We base our reliance on freedom. We reject, therefore, the ideas of the economic planners in washington. A group of people sitting in washington can plan when the country is going to make, where it is going to be made, the quality of the product, the price of the product, the wages to be made, the profits to be made, etc. In simpler terms, this is called socialism. It has never worked in the history of the earth. It is not working today in countries where it has been tried. Republican president ial candidates Barry Goldwater campaign in 1964. Cspans the contenders coming to you from phoenix, arizona. We look at his political influence during the second half of the 20th century. We welcome you tonight and our audience at the Goldwater Institute and our three guests who will walk us through the life and political career of Barry Goldwater beginning with rick perlstein. He has written for the nation , and is also the author of the book nixonland. Darcy olsen darcyolsen also, darcy olsen. Her editorials have appeared in the washington journal and the national review. He served two turn to the state legislature including one term in the senate. He has produced 90 documentarys including Barry Goldwater, an american life. He called himself a different kind of a candidate for a different kind of an election year. How so . I think the thing that may have most different is that he was a reluctant president ial candidate. If we think about all of the people running for president in 2012, we cannot say any of them are reluctant. It is a fulltime job. It is consuming. Ever since 1960 when the first group of people came to Barry Goldwater and tried to draft him and said we want to make to a president ial candidate, he would say that is the last thing on my mind. I dont want to run for president. He once even said i do not have the brains to be president. Over and over again, he said we dont care. We are going to draftee. That is what happened. He pretty much was drafted by followers to raise money and built an organization on his own. We will talk about this letter. The assassination of john kennedy. How did that influence his decision to go ahead in 1964. Whats he was inching toward doing it in the fall of 1963. One of the reasons was president kennedy had introduced a civil rights bill that was beginning to build a strong backlash. There were people talking about president kennedy being vulnerable in 1964. Goldwater was close to kennedy and he liked kennedy. When john kennedy was assassinated, it is hard to reconstruct the context and our minds. It was so care wing for the American People. People like extremism. People blame the ideological politics that americans did not want to believe as part of their political system. Barry goldwater and immediately lost interest. It was another month and a half before he answered the call of one more group of people coming to him and begging him saying it was his duty to support the pr republican cause. This book was the manifest of why he was running. The ideology that shaped him. In the piece of film which showed you, he talked about freedom and Free Enterprise and the failed socialist experiment that democrats were pushing in the 1960s. Barry goldwater stood for one thing. He was very clear about it. That was freedom. That but today is just as relevant as it was when it was written 50 years ago. Barry goldwater would say, circumstances change. Principles do not. When he was getting ready to run for office, he said, as i survey the landscape at look at the questions that might occur to me, the most important concern that i will have the most important question i will ask myself is, are we maximizing freedom . That was the beginning and the end of his political analysis. Take us back to 1964 and walk us through Barry Goldwater in the u. S. Senate for two terms. What led him to this point on the National Stage . Really in a sense the simplicity of his perspective. Simplicity as compared to more complicated politics. We have to go back. You have to look at Barry Goldwater in the context of his times. His family came here in the 1950s. He grew up and dusty Little Phoenix that had 8000 or 9000 people at the time. Life was more simple here than it was in the east. When he was born it was not a state for two or three more years. But his life style this was part of the old west at that time. It was not new york city and what ever. You have to look at Barry Goldwater from his family history, it meant a lot to him. Up until world war ii, what was life like here . It was very simple. It was very unsophisticated. It was black and white. It was right and wrong it was the old west. I bring that up because that is what shapes where did he get these views which i call small l libertarian. It was the context in which he grew up. You ask me a question but i cannot remember what the question was pure what led us to 1964, and what shape is ideology in the 1950s . It was truthfully what i just said. It was simple. I do not mean that in a negative way. It was sort of simple. There was right and wrong. There was good and bad and it is and bat and the other. You get into world war ii which he served in. Remember, world war ii was the major good vs. Bad thing. And we get into the cold war with the soviet union. All of these things from Barry Goldwaters perspective for pretty black and white especially compared to todays politics where you dont know quite who is doing what to goma. To whom. He was the personification of good versus bad, right versus wrong, whether you agree with him or not. I think that had a lot of appeal by the time the 1950s and certainly 1964 came about. Im going to come back later and ask you about your impressions of him. Lets focus on the 1964 race. You had otherented the race like governor scranton of pennsylvania who was in and out again. Nelson rockefeller spent a lot of money to try to secure the nomination. Walk us through how the search candidates challenged Barry Goldwater. The Republican Party was a Different Institution and then it is now. It was controlled by moderates and even liberals. The entire ideology of the party system was different. Each party had in it both conservatives and liberals. The Democratic Partys had very conservative members in the south and liberals in the north. The republicans had a conservative wing from the midwest and a republic a liberal wing from the northeast. With the Barry Goldwater campaign was all about was trying to take over the party from the bottom up the bottom up being these conservative ideological activists. They had their meetings and country clubs and very fancy places. It was presumed that someone like Nelson Rockefeller was the heir apparent for the republican nomination. The idea that a conservative could have won the nomination was absolutely seen as a possible by the pundits. The pundits then said that america was a liberal center left consensus. When Dwight Eisenhower not only embraced in the new deal but even expanded it, opening up Something Like the department of health, education, and welfare. Instituting the interstate. It was just presumed that the conservatism of the 1920s, which was seen as something that have gotten us into the depression was no longer relevant to modern life. In your book, you point out to dump key primaries that were critical in 1964. Oregon which Nelson Rockefeller one and a california which Barry Goldwater 1. California was an absolutely fascinating knock down drag out political fight. I talked earlier about how Barry Goldwater had these impassioned supporters who would do what ever they want even if Barry Goldwater told them not to do it. These are people from groups like the john birch society. Some were segregationists. They were far right extremists. They were basically willing to knock on doors until there knuckles were bloody. They were willing to sabotage other campaigns. It was seen as the fight for civilization itself. The other candidates the liberal candidates were seen as these sort of harbingers of the socialism that they believed was destroying civilization itself. It was incredibly impassion. Two years after Richard Nixon lost his governorship, he was still a player in the Republican Party in 1964. He was trying to figure out a way the party might turn to him if they did not want to rockefeller or Barry Goldwater. You mention the oregon primary. He established a secret boiler room in which people were hired to make phone calls to voters saying, would not be able to meet idea if Richard Nixon was drafted to be president . This is Richard Nixon we are talking about. Someone found out about it. A camera crew showed up. Richard nixon was scheming and he was always hoping that Barry Goldwater and rockefeller were not point would knock each other out. There was a cartoon that showed them having a shootout in the middle of an old western town. Richard nixon was rubbing his hands. Richard nixons political undertakers parlor. We as alwaywant to hear from you. Our phone lines are open. If you live in the eastern or central time zone. 2027370002 if you live in the pacific time sons. We also will get questions from the audience. It will show you political ads from 1964. You remember this campaign. How did Lyndon Johnson run against Barry Goldwater . Was his tactic . Rottenness. He ran a very smart campaign. He made Barry Goldwater the issue as opposed to the issues being the issue. The Barry Goldwater was painted as a crazy person. There were things put out by the Johnson Campaign that some groups of psychiatrists and a america came out with a statement that Barry Goldwater was mentally ill. Some of you probably remember that. The nuclear bomb commercial which only aired one time. It got a lot of attention. It was designed by bill morris actually. It was a totally do the guy in kind of campaign. It is important to realize the nuclear stuff did not come out of nowhere. In his book he made a strong argument that a craven fear of death had crept into the american psyche. People were so afraid of nuclear war that they did not want to confront the soviet union. There was a good reason people were afraid to can be to confront the soviet union all out war would have meant the end of civilization itself. It frees people out that if we are afraid of going to war with the soviet union, we are on a path to surrender. That was a genuinely frightening notion, especially after the cuban missile crisis when people came within hours of armageddon itself. He did have some very unconventional ideas about the necessity of confronting the soviet union had on militarily pierre will talk a little later on about the iconic daisy . We have put together some 1964 adds to get a sense of the issues and personality of that campaign. This particular fought only brings in a serious crisis. Even in the hands of a man who has proven himself responsibly. But for president johnson on november 3. The people ask Barry Goldwater. I have a question for mr. Goldwater. We keep hearing about hot wars, cold war, and brushfire wars. I have an older brother who is serving in the armed forces. I want to know what people do to keep us out of a worker let me assure you here and now, i have said that in every corner of the land and i will continue to say it, a cold Water Administration will mean much once more that the present policy of strength groupies that was the hallmark of the Eisenhower Administration. It served the cause of freedom and avoided the word during the last Republican Administration. It will do so again. We are the party of preparedness and the party of peace. In your heart, you know he is right. Vote for Barry Goldwater. On october 24, 1963, Barry Goldwater said the nuclear bomb is merely another weapon. Merely another weapon . Vote for president johnson. The stakes are too high for you to stay home. Graft swindle juvenile delinquency crime riots hear what Barry Goldwater has to say about our lack of moral leadership. The leadership of this nation has a clear challenge to go to work effectively and go to work immediately to restore proper respect for law and order in this land and not just prior to election day either. Americas brightnesses witness of her people. Let this generation make a new market for that greatness. What this generation set a standard of responsibility that will inspire the world. And your heart, you know he is right. But for Barry Goldwater. You look back at those campaigns from 1964, your reaction . A lot of different thoughts come to mind when i see that a re including how many of these commercials inspired modernday political commercials. What i take away is the slogan in your heart, you know he is right. I think the American People proved that 15 years later when they elected Ronald Reagan when he campaigned on an identical platform but with different packaging and a little bit more loss. This messaging you were talking about with the soviet union and how Barry Goldwater had it too much bravado and it was gearing people. That is what Ronald Reagan won on and one with. I think that speaks a lot about the timing and what is happening socially when you are campaigning and how important that is and how it compliance is whether or not you get through with your ideas. Two very different approaches. A different tactic by the cold Water Campaign tour i think about how embarrassingly atrocious they were. The Barry Goldwater team or not very professional for all kinds of interesting reasons. Barry goldwater wanted to have people and brought him he felt comfortable with. He hired his arizona friends who were not National Political professionals. The lead in johnson advertisements for made by an advertising agency. It produced one of Barry Goldwater the barry ads which is in talking to eisenhower. It was a total bust. Is that i will never give to this campaigned again. This guys name was shocked list in its chain. He has passed away. Chuck. He said i never had a lot of experience with tv. He said he never watched tv. It was the Barry Goldwater campaign. We are going to be showing during the course of this evening some of the documentary that you have put together some of the original work. He worked with Barry Goldwater how long to get this put together . I think specifically on the process probably six months. Was there but thing you did not know about Barry Goldwater that you learned in putting this together . His language. [laughter] elaborate. He has a very colorful language. I was going to tell a story, but i really have to clean it up. I will tell the story. I will clean it up. One of the last times i was with him, i walked into his living room and he was sitting in an barca lounger watching tv. I said, how are you doing . He looked at me and said here is the clean up part the myng racoons are sing in fireplace. People did not know but we have recons in the desert. A mother raccoon had climbed up on its roof and come down the chimney. What you call the thing in the fireplace . He gave birth to a litter of raccoons. The raccoons were doing their business so to speak in the fireplace. That was his comment. On that note, lets go to martin from texas. We look at the life and career of Barry Goldwater and his 1964 president ial bid. Good evening. The reason i am calling in on veterans day. I happen to be a retired captain from illinois. I like to tell my friends not so much the history of how many times i met Barry Goldwater accidentally but i was first influenced being a democratic can man from illinois where my cousin became the Supreme Court justice, head of state of illinois, attorneygeneral. I will not go on. It was a world war ii texas a m colonel in the air force excuse me, army and later airforce that influenced me to vote for Barry Goldwater. Interestingly enough, i like to say to my texas friends, i am one of the few guys left that remembers on monday hearing fdr when i was 7 years old give the day of infamy speech. I ran into Barry Goldwater a couple of times in a little restaurant that he looked on connecticut avenue. One time i was there my boss to happen to be a civilian world war ii pilot, i introduced Barry Goldwater to my boss. My boss said, why did you introduce me to the senator . I said, he knows another robert stafford. He got such a kick out of this. How long have you known Barry Goldwater . I said i have only met him a couple of times in the rest of. Anyway, the man was a fantastic individual. The only time i went to the senates was when Barry Goldwater was presiding. The sky was a beautiful man. One last memory is, i went to Wright Patterson air force base, happen to be going there on business. My wife and young son were there. I said, why dont you go down to the museum. That was the date Barry Goldwater and Jimmy Stewart the met dedicated the first wing of the museum. They both came by and check in with my wife and son. I wished i had had that experience to meet the other general Jimmy Stewart. Anyway, i wanted to share that. What a wonderful man he was. Thank you for the call. He was a pilot. He was a ham radio operator. He took a lot of pictures. It is important to recognize that a lot of powerful rich people Barry Goldwater which Barry Goldwater was used their power to get out of military service. He used his power to get into the military. He was a pretty old guy. He took on duty in a very dangerous air route. They called it the aluminum trail because so many planes went down. He has this fascination with flying the latest military hardware. One time in 1964 he had this very sensitive meeting with Lyndon Johnson and about how they would handle the issue of race riots. London johnson spent hours of preparing. There was an entire memo that was going to guide his incredibly delicate ago seasons. The meeting lasted 15 seconds and then Barry Goldwater was like, when do i get to try this new plan that is coming out . Lets go back to the campaign. It was a landslide for Lyndon Johnson. Why such a disparity . Was Barry Goldwater misunderstood in the campaign . A lot of reasons. First of all, people were terrified of the prospect of nuclear war. People Lyndon Johnson was dishonest on issues like the and not. There was a Bumper Sticker that showed up the next year, and said if i voted for Barry Goldwater there would be a war in vietnam. I voted for Barry Goldwater, and there was. His ideological time had not come. Also, i mentioned the atrocious campaign he ran. I found a memo that inspired the the research staff. I found a formal letter they sent out to Political Science professors and every state. It said, dear prof. , please send us any books or pamphlets about the political situation in insert state here. This was not a professional operation. I am a retired cpa. I have lived in central phoenix for 53 years. As a person who knew Barry Goldwater and worked with him in the community, i knew him to be a man of impeccable integrity and who is ticket dedicated to the proposition of personal responsibility. When he ran for president , it seemed to me from my perspective that the pundits you mentioned earlier went out of their way to print and broadcast atrocious and a dishonest statements about him. There is a National Magazine to this day i do not take because of the things they said about Barry Goldwater that were out right and true. My question is, why did the National Press and so many prominent people go out of their way to be so vindictive against a man who based upon what has already been said was going to lose . I would set a couple of things. A lot of his followers were very frightened. You can charge that to Barry Goldwater or you can say that was not his fault. He did not like to distance himself from people who were devoted to him. He also have to understand the context of the times. Fascism and nazism was a living memory for just about every adult. The idea of people getting together with such rage against liberals. When Barry Goldwater did a very famous speech at the 1960 convention in which she said, conservatives, lets grow up. Recanted this party back. He said we need to defeat the democrats working for the destruction and this nation. Passions were very high. Political passions of that magnitude were greatly feared. He was kind of caught up in that in an unfair way. Had to deal with the context of the belief that if people darker angels were allowed to bring rain in the political system, we but not be able to control the consequences. This was a time, of course, when a civil rights terrorism in places like mississippi. People were burning down for it people were burning down churches. People were assassinating civil rights workers. People were saying why is it in a place like mississippi where all of this stuff is going on was voting 87 for Barry Goldwater . He did vote against it. Well go to george joining us from manassas, virginia. Welcome to the Contenders Program and our look at Barry Goldwater. Thank you very much. Thanks for doing this show. My parents volunteered for Barry Goldwater. My question to yall was he more of a libertarian . Or more of a serve . There is a difference if you look at it. Dr. Olson . Well, youre right in it there with that question. Liz book was called the conscience of a conservative. She felt like he was a conservative, that he was a true conservative who understood that this nation was founded on the concept of constitutionally limited government, and that was true in all spheres of life, that you couldnt pick and choose where you would have government involvement. If it wasnt in the constitution, then it wasnt constitutional and therefore the government shouldnt be involved. So today, i mean there are a lot of libertarians that wear that man tell. A lot of different folk miss the Tea Party Movement and candidates for president. I wont be the one to define him as a libertarian or conservative. He used the term conservative, and i think that what he stood for was as close to what the Founding Fathers stood for as any prominent person in our history. This book, what personality came through from Barry Goldwater . What did you learn how to who he was as a person . I think what people have been saying, that he was a guy who shot from the hip and he didnt care what people thought of him. You know, much to his detriment often. People talk about him as an honorable man. But by the same token, i think ideologically he could be very naive. So i mentioned the civil rights terrorism that was going on in mississippi. The fact that people were being shot in cold blood for doing things like helping people register to vote. He never denounced that. He said his appeal to people of the south was im not going to as an arizonan tell people in mississippi what they should do. When civil rights are being that egregiously violated, i think theres a kind of which side are you on question. So i think that his heart was in the right place. He believed he was doing the right thing. But i think he had a certain myopia when it came to a real ordeal that he avoided at that time. I want f talk about the libertarian conservative. You have to look in the context of his time. I wouldnt be surprised if during his life, and certainly while he was in the senate, he probably never heard the word libertarian. That wasnt even a word. That was heard of at the time. I call him a small l libertarian, because he basically believed in freedom of choice as he came later in his career after politics. He was outspoken in favor of gay rights. A womans right to choose. All sorts of things like that. And some of my friends would say oh, senile and he became a big liberal in the end. He changed. He didnt change. His philosophy was always. Its up to you as an individual to have the right to decide, whether it was about gay rights or abortion rights or labor unions, the whole thing from the 50s where hes totally misunderstood, i might note. He was a small l libertarian. Today we have, you know, all sorts of politicians and president ial hopefuls running around talking about libertarian, libertarian this and that. Youve done a perfect job of setting up this next piece. To give you a sense of the personality and style of Barry Goldwater. He talks so fast. You know, sitting there trying to listen to you reminds me of trying to read Playboy Magazine with my wife turning the pages. [laughter] i happen to think im in a pretty tough race. Im spending the money that i legally can. Thats the answer. In fact, its a stupid question, if you dont mind my saying so. Ill read the record. I never said that airplane wouldnt fly. You said you wouldnt. People all over the country keep talking about legalized gambling. And i thought we already had it. Its called election day. [applause] i now realize what it takes to be a president. It helps to have a brother sent to the gas station drinking beer all day. When i was campaigning many that razorthin election in 1964, i should have told everyone that dean was my brother. [laughter] you wanted to jump in earlier. He actually pioneered what would become social conservatism. He gave a very sharp speech about the moral decay of nation. It was mormon tabernacle in salt lake city. But he also used some of that salty language that we need to censor when he referred to the christian rights. Jerry follow will, said in 1981 that all good christians should be very concerned about sandra day oconnor. If i may, he said all good christians should kick jerry followill in the ass. Paul, youre on. I was just curious to know what your panel thinks. How would he have handled vietnam differently than Lyndon Johnson did . Would he have escalated the war, or have seen it as a civil war between the knot and South Vietnamese . Thanks for the question. Whether he would have been successful or not, i dont know. But i was of that generation. Vietnam war under Lyndon Johnson was gradualism. Were going to tighten the screw and eventually theyre going to give up. Yeah right. I think if barry had been president , and im not saying it would have been a good move or a bad move. Im not sure. But i think he would have come in with with what later became the colynn powell doctrine. If youre going to go to war, you have to go with the attite that you want to win it in the next hour. Thats his attitude. Then he said we lost the war in vietnam for one reason. The politicians tried to run the war. In his quote. And politicians dont know their ass from a hot rock about running a war. That was his quote. I think he would have taken a far more aggressive approach to it, as compared to johnsons gradualism, which dragged out almost as long as our current wars. What kind of a president would he have been . Barry would have been something we dont see too often today. I think he would have been a very honest president. I think he would have been very candid as he was his whole life. That was the way he campaigned how he was after office. I think that candor is something that people loved about Barry Goldwater and its one of the reasons that so many people sought out Barry Goldwater, even after he was in office and he was so wellrespected and liked by so many people. Because you knew with Barry Goldwater where you stood. He always put his principles first. He kind of had a tenure to sometimes messaging and what people might think. And he put his principles before partisanship, before party, before politics. Its hard to say whether he would have been able to work with congress that way. But its an exercise that i would have liked to have seen. We are in week 10 of the contenders series. We are in phoenix, arizona. We have an audience here as well. Well get another question right up front. Thank you. Kevin lane. I recall barry was interviewed in the 1980s when russia had just gone into afghanistan. His quote was he had been in those hills and a rightminded goat would not wander into those hills. He forecasted that russia would lose. And obviously, were quite bogged down in afghanistan. So my question to the panel is maybe some other examples of his wisdom in his life as far as being ahead of his time. Youre shaking your head. I think that is a great question and goes back to what kind of a president would he have been, and one of the things we know he would have done differently is he would not have vastly expanded the welfare state in america. He was fighting against that. He said there were all kinds of federal programs that were unconstitutional that needed to be repealed. He was unabashed about that. He certainly did not agree with the levels of taxation that we had then, let alone the levels of taxation that we have now. He was very against the type of progressive taxation that was put into place and has become more and more predominant. He felt like taxation should be minimal and fair per person, so if you give 10 , i give 10 . Rick gives 10 . Rick is going to pay 90 , youre not going to pay anything. So those are some major differences. Also, since that time, and certainly Lyndon Johnson worked on this as well, but this vast expansion of government into all of these social arenas, including education, for which there is no constitutional authority. All of those things are things that Barry Goldwater bar would have fought hard against. Lets go back to where your book begins and talk about his influence here in arizona as he tried to build the Republican Party in the late 1940s. Its a fascinating story. It was a democratic state. When he ran for the senate, i think that there were 92 members of the lower house. It might have been 96, and two of them were democratic. He came from a republican family, his mom was a americanner. She was a republican. A mevener. She was a republican. Also, for the new Defense Industries that were opening up in arizona. And before he entered politics, he did what . He was an executive at the Family Department store. He was actually, interestingly enough, we talk about him being a straightshooting guy. He was actually the marketing guy for the department store. But he a guy named eugene polian moved to phoenix and he was a newspaper publisher. He was actually dan quayles fatherinlaw, and he really wanted to help build a Republican Party, and also build a nonpat syrian City Government to build up what was a corrupt town. Barry goldwater was involved in both. In 1950, he was the Campaign Manager for a guy named howard pyle, who ran for governor, and being Barry Goldwater, he flew howard pyle around the state in his plane. He would descend like a bronze god to these little towns and people would say wow, which ones the candidate . But heres the thing. When he ran for senate, he decided that he would run for senate by building a Republican Party. So he recruited people for every office in the state. Someone said why are you qualified to run for senate in arizona . He was such a First Citizen of arizona, his answer was i can call 10,000 people in the state by their first name. He build the Republican Party in arizona. And im going to call on you for just a moment, because you remember going to the Goldwater Department store. Correct. When i first came to arizona in 1970, i worked for the old adams hotel, which was in downtown, and i bought a bathing suit at the Goldwater Department store on central avenue. And at the time, you talk about him being in marketing, they gave you with every purchase a little vile of water that has gold flakes in it. And everybody that had flown in from texas to buy that hotel all when i went back to the hotel all ran down and bought a bathing suit so they could get a vile of water with gold flakes in it. So he was good at marketing. I just wanted to comment about the 1952 election. Barry ran against ernest mcfarland, the majority leader of the United States senate at that time. He raised money for him and all that. Barry didnt like or was upset with harry truman, which is ironic today because what former president was barry most like, harry truman, actually. But barry told me many times, he says i ran for president , i knew i didnt have a chance in hell of winning. But even in the senate, he didnt think he had a chance of winning that 1952 senate race. At all. So maybe he was building a Republican Party. He had been on the city council for two years and then he sort of decided to run against harry truman in most senses. But he didnt. He was not some big political organizer who said lets build a Republican Party here. It was sort of natural. But it wasnt like he had some big plan to do that. He was just running thinking he didnt have a chance in hell of winning. Well, we came across some early film of senator Barry Goldwater after he was elected to the senate. But before coming to washington, d. C. Lets look. Speaking of washington, where youre going, there is a great deal of talk on the part of the republicans doing the campaign about communism in washington and the mess in washington. Do you anticipate finding anything like that when you take your seat in the senate . Well, i dont know. I cant say. I think that there must be communism in washington, but i would hate to stand up and say there is without knowing more about it. Let me put it this way, is there any fear or concern about communism and about the so called mess in washington among the people who voted for you out in arizona . I think the fear of communism is one of the underlying reasons for the success of the Republican Party in this election, all over the country. Now that the Republican Party is in, do you think there will be any letting down of this concern, any complacency on the part of the people who voted for you . I think theres already happened. In what way . I am amazed to walk around new york to find in my own communities well, general eisenhower has been elected. The new deal has been thrown out. We can go back to our work the same as usual. And as always happens in politics, the man who benefits the most from Good Government goes on with the least interest in it, and thats mr. Average citizen. Are you going to do anything to point out the need for continuing concern over the situation in washington . Ill never be quiet about it. From 1952, never be quiet, that became his mantra as senator and candidate in 1964. Who helped him win the 1952 race . He had a very slick operator, a name familiar to arizona in steven shadic. He wasnt necessarily the most favored guy. He once wrote a book on how to win an election. He would do things like they sent out 50,000 postcards all hand signed by volunteers from barry. He would do things like he said if the situation is profishes, you can get millions of people to vote for someone who has the absolute opposite ideology that they do. So he was a very tough Campaign Manager. We have a question here in the audience. Please introduce yourself and go ahead. Good evening. My name is richard muser. I was 16 months old when we move to arizona, so i claim to be a native. Its a pleasure to hear the information about senator goldwater from so many experts. The reason i am here is because in the second grade, i met a gentleman named bill mccuban and we have been friends since then. In 1964, i was a lowly specialist fourth class in the army in fort benning, georgia. I wasnt old enough to vote at that time because arizona was 21 and i was only 20. When i listened to the senator discuss using low yield Nuclear Weapons in vietnam, it made sense to me as a military person, and it made sense to a lot of my fellow soldiers at the same time. The point that the Johnson Campaign exaggerated, the impact of using these huge hiroshima bombs was a total exaggeration. He was an air force man. He knew what low yield meant and what it would do. And my question is what was wrong with the term low yield that i believe i only heard it once or twice. Rick, you wrote about that in the book. Yeah, i actually talked to one of the physicists that design some of those low yield Nuclear Weapons. He said it was absolutely insane to believe that you could contain the explosions from those weapons. So im not so sure that its true. I want to comment, only because dick music brought this up. We grew up in the same neighborhood over by 25th drive north of thomas road. In about 1950 through 1954, that period, my father would wake me and my brothers up at 4 00 in the morning on a couple of occasions. We would go up on to the roof of our house and sit facing north. My dad had his watch and he would tell us theres one minute, 30 seconds. And we would see Nuclear Atomic bombs explode at the test sites aboveground, Nuclear Bombs exploding on the test sites in nevada, which was, what, 300 miles away. I mean, four or five times, i thought im one of the few people alive today whos ever seen a nuclear bomb explode. Maybe some of you have, too. Hopefully nobody else ever will again. But this was a ritual, wed watch the Nuclear Bombs going off in nevada. The point is, i thought why are we dropping Nuclear Bombs on nevada . I thought they were on our side. [laughter] but realizing that whether it was 250 or 300 miles away to those test sites. It would light up. Its like summer flashlight thing, if you know what that means, except it the light would stay in the air longer tham summer lightning. Than summer lightning. Wow, thats 300 miles away. Think about that. That kind of thing is what contributes to the great fear of the soviet union and nuclear war. Let me put a domestic issue on the table. Organized labor and the legislative record that senator goldwater had. Extremely important in Barry Goldwaters rise. Of course, arizona became the first right to work state, the circle that he was in, his friends, people like dennis mc kitchle, he was the labor lawyer for the big mining company. He argued before the Supreme Court. The idea that fighting labor power was essential to conservative politics was absolutely part of what Barry Goldwater was all about. He basically rose to National Prominence in the late 1950s on two kind of wings. The first was he gave a speech attacking Dwight Eisenhower for a big budget, which he called squander bus spending and the siren song of socialism. The other was there was a big labor hearing in the late 1950s run by senator mcclellan. And it was meant to take on jimmy hoffas corruption. Barry goldwater kept on interrupting. He would say things like well i would rather have jimmy hoffa stealing my money than walter rutha stealing my freedom. Walter rutha was head of the united auto workers, who pioneered like the automatic cost of living increase. He was fighting to make the operations and corporations much more transparent. He was the most political aggressive labor leader in history. By taking on sbun like walter rutha, businessmen flocked to Barry Goldwater as their savior. These were the guys, these businessmen were the people who ended up organizing the group that under Barry Goldwaters nose without him being involved at all put together a conscience of conservative and first put him forward as a president ial candidate. Can i disagree with what he said . Sure. My experience with barry and interviewing him, he wasnt im convinced he wasnt against unions. I mean, the small libertarian thing. He said many times in our shows, to join a union or not join a union, its their personal voice. He was most vociferous about corruption in the unions and he really didnt like the what do you call it . The closed shop, where you had to join a union in order to have a job. Doesnt like weak unions. Well, ill build on what youre saying there. I think thats absolutely correct. Its 21. He believed that unions were an expression of human freedom. If you joined them voluntary. He believed wholeheartedly in freedom of association. He thought that was great if you wanted to join. What he didnt believe in is what unionism has become, which is compulsory, forced membership. And that was something that he vehemently opposed. So yuff a situation today where theyre trying to take away the right to vote by secret ballot when youre forming a union. That was something that he opposed. There was the issue of what was his other big issue right to work. Yeah, right to work. Where they were making membership compulsory and it was a condition of employment, which he said that is against everything we believe in as americans. He fought for right to work laws in the states. But he didnt oppose the idea of associating unions. He opposed this idea of what unions have become, which is forcing people to do things against their will, completely contrary to everything that Barry Goldwater believed. Marvin has been waiting. Well go to him next in los angeles. Thank you for your program. Im wondering if Barry Goldwater were alive today with his life span of points of view, could he get the nomination of the Republican Party . Thats the first part of my question. And number two, based on the extreme right wing state of some leaders in arizona politics, as in the election last tuesday were jerry lewis defeated a leader in the senate, how would Barry Goldwater have stood in the ideas of the current plan party in the state of arizona . Thank you very much. Thank you. So two points. First, could Barry Goldwater get the nomination today . No, because he would have been vetoed by the christian rights. Im looking over some of these quotes. Theyre stunning. This is what he said in 1981. Can anyone look at the carnage in iran, the bloodshed in Northern Ireland and the bombs bursting in lebanon and question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of states . He believed very firmly by the end of his political career that people who enter politics from a religious motivation are so impassioned and so impervious to compromise that it made the give and take necessary for politics impossible. Which is so ironic, because in 1964, extremism and defensive liberty is no vice. Thats what he was accused of at the time. But he did come to an extreme firm and extreme passioned notion, he didnt even want Pat Robertson to run for president in 1988. He thought that was a violation of the separation of church and state. Let me give with the first sentence in the first chapter of conscience of a conservative. Because Barry Goldwater said i have been much concerned that so many people today with conservative instincts feel come pelled to polings for apologize for them. Yeah, this book conscience of a conservative, i think to this day remains the best statement of what it means to be a conservative in this country. He is so clear. And i think earlier on, you had talked about you used the word simple. I think for me, effs thinking prince i was thinking principled. Not simpleton or simplicity. But it was clean. It was clear. And those principles are beautifully outlined in that book and it is just as good of a read today as it was back in the day. As an author and writer, i have to give some credit to the guy who actually wrote the book, which is a fellow named brent bow bush bozell. Barry goldwater might have read it, but he definitely wasnt involved in the production of the book, which is a fascinating story i tell in my book. As he spoke to the delegates at the Republican Convention, which nominated Vice President Richard Nixon. As an american who loves this republic and as a member of the senate, i am committed to the republican philosophy and to the republican candidates. It is my belief the people of this land will return a Republican Administration to office in 1960. [applause]i might suggest in all seriousness that you and i will not have discharged our full responsibility unless we also returned and the effect of republican congress. I would not imply that our party is the repository of all virtue, that only republicans can see the truth. That only republicans served noble virtues. I must insist that those in control of the Democratic Party have announced their total commitment to what i regard a lopsided side of man and that puts americans and a shameful condition of everlasting dependence on the state. [applause] i have visited the people in the cities, states, and the towns of our nation. I can tell you the band and wouldnt face the future with courage. They are eager to accept their responsibilities. It what to do work and sacrifice to defend our freedom. It is our path as delegates of the 1960 Republican Convention to make certain the republican voter is provided with an opportunity to make a meaningful choice between the two philosophy is competing today for acceptance and our world. The philosophy of the stomach or the philosophy of the whole man. As he watched Barry Goldwater in 1960, how did that set the stage for his stake in 1964 . It is the red meat of the conservative movement. He ended his speech by saying, grow up. Lets get to work. I think that is the last line of his speech there. He was not, who was that republican guy here ran campaigns the last few years . Karl rove . He was not karl rove and all that type of thing at all. Tohad feelings of, lets get work. Lets take this back. He had no keys for richard dixon, especially later. Probably no use for rockefeller other than they were probably from the. He was saying, lets get to work. I wrote my senior thesis in 1971 on the treatment of the Barry Goldwater campaign. I had the good fortune to spend a full day interviewing the office of the door wide in his office of manhattan. He had vivid memories of the weeks he had spent on the campaign trail with Barry Goldwater in preparation for the 1964 installment of his famous series. He told me he came away with the tour with great admiration for Barry Goldwater and with contempt for the liberal media he was a part of and what he thought was doing so much to demonize Barry Goldwater and distort the case that Barry Goldwater was trying to make to the people. Barry goldwater he told barry had tried earnestly to educate people about the dangers of concentrating power. The specific issue that led to his opposition to the civil rights bill that year. White also said that when goldwater came to fear discussing civil rights issues further on the campaign trail might worsen racial tensions, he met with president Lyndon Johnson and the two agreed to take the issues out of their campaigns. The agreement really cost Barry Goldwater boats along a lot of middleclass whites. One must think, he told me how dismayed he had been when he got back from new york after his Barry Goldwater interval. His liberal media friends received him as if he were a jew just to escape from a nazi death camp. He astonished those men are saying what a worthy candidates Barry Goldwater was. I thought you would like to know. To work for your call. He know, it is really interesting of the civilrights issue that Barry Goldwater did get a bum rap from the media and continues to get one when you hear people talking about his civil rights record and how he did not vote for the Civil Rights Act or he did not speak out enough. Really, he must not have had that in his heart. That could not have been further from the truth about to Barry Goldwater was. In the Cold Water Department store, they have integrated the store long before anyone else had done that. He really did have a color blind heart. Anybody you need to will tell you that. Anybody who met Barry Goldwater would tell you that. One of the greatest stories that i love about that relates to this is we do not know if it is true or not. I was talking to his son, but the way it goes is that he went to a very fancy golf course and all air and wanted to play a round of golf. He said, you cannot play here because you are jewish. He responded by saying, you know, i am only half jewish. D think i can play nine holes . Let me Say Something about civil rights real quick. Barry goldwater and here rosenzweig as a City Council Members integrated the airport in the phoenix which had been segregated before. After world war ii the department of defense asked Barry Goldwater to organize the Arizona Air National guard which had not existed before. He said, i will do its on one condition that it is racially integrated. They gave in and said fine. In the senate he voted for civil rights legislation can consistently into the early 60s. The only what he voted against was the final one. He voted against it for one reason and that was because a thing in there called the mrs. Murphy law that would have said that if mrs. Murray wants to rent her Spare Bedroom out, that she could not discriminate. He has a longer history of pro Civil Rights Activity. Let me ask you about the relationship between Barry Goldwater and john kennedy. Both can to the senate together in 1952. They had affection for each other. One Barry Goldwater was rising in the early 1960s, he was very much compared to john kennedy. This handsome, charismatic guy. There was a famous store they talked about campaigning together and writing the same campaign trail and debating each other lincoln and douglas style. This is often taken as a testament of this old civil time. I suspect that john kennedy was speaking cynically and thinking if he could get this guy on a platform and forced into mouth his what were then unpopular views, i can wipe the floor with him. History changed in dallas on november 22, 1963 following the assassination of president kennedy. Senator Barry Goldwater said this. He was a very decent fellow. He is the kind of an antagonist that i have always enjoyed. He would fight like a wildcat for his points and his principles. There was never anything personal about it. I imagine that i have debated the president more on the floor of the senate than any other man. It never affected our friendship. We had some rather violent arguments in sessions of committee. It never affected our friendship. That is the kind of man you respect. The kind of man you like to work with and politics. After the assassination and before he entered the race in 1964, how ambivalent was the about running . He was ambivalent airport rolling toward running. One of the reasons he was so ambivalent after the assassination was because he knew the public would beat so on interest ability and the idea of having three president s in the space of one year would be too much for people to care. A question here in the ring. I had to keep good fortune of being in the formation of the Goldwater Institute. I want to make a comment and a question. One of his unique features is he never sought publicity. That made him unusual for a politician. When webber tried to form the Organization Even with the perspiration of congressman kyl, james kelley and others, he was still reluctant. We wanted to have a reward in his name. He was reluctant again to step forward and have the award named after him. He is unusual in many ways. My question is, is there anybody to compare him with . We think of Ronald Reagan or maybe somebody like bob taft. Is there anyone else we can compare Barry Goldwater to . Not a life today. I would say two people. Ron paul and Ronald Reagan. I think he compares to ron paul and that ron paul is a very straightforward speaker who does not really care what the press thinks, but he just speaks from his heart about his ideas. It is his downfall. It was part of barrys downfall. Also reagan likened that the core of his ideas that Barry Goldwater ran on Ronald Reagan letter implemented. Ronald reagan had a smoother style. He was mr. Hollywood. He had that wonderful smile and people loved him and he made people laugh. He ran basically on the same ideas that Barry Goldwater did and it brought over one in a landslide. Sometimes when people say people did not like Barry Goldwaters ideas are there were not ready for them, i do not think that was a fair assessment. I think the assassination plan a key role at that time. I think the poor messaging Barry Goldwater barry did was a factor. I dont think it was the ideas. I think it was the way they were sold. I think the liberal congressman from illinois speaks with equal forthrightness. She is just as principled as Barry Goldwater. Bruce is joining us from california. Go ahead with your question. Thank you for this program. Yes or a liberal who has only voted for one republican in my life and that was Barry Goldwater. I guess my attitude at the time, kennedy was such a young get a new generation, articulate and johnson seemed to be so much the old politics. Two things i wanted to mention that i have not heard here, a choice not an echo was one of his big things i thought. The other point i wanted to make was there was a book called a treason that came out to run the same time. This was basically john birch society. We had the birchers then and the birthers now. Barry goldwater never really separated himself from that group. The night before the election, Ronald Reagan came on to boost Barry Goldwaters candidacy. A lot of the comment afterward was, maybe we got the wrong man. Thank you for the call. We will talk about Ronald Reagan in about 20 minutes and show you a portion of what he spoke of toward the end of the 1964 campaign. This was absolutely scandalous itself. It was a book and argued ever set back in america ever had was because there were secret communists and ultra in every part of the government. 20 million copies of this book were circulated. Rich businessmen would buy up thousands and thousands of copies and hand them out everywhere. They are right. Barry goldwater did not denounce this stuff. He would rationalize it by saying that people know there is something wrong out there and this is pushing in the right direction. Maybe i disagree with that, but he never denounced the john birch society. I think that was one of his achilles heels. He humored extremists. He has been quoted so often. You used the word extremism is no excuse for my spread that came in san francisco. We want to show you that but put it in some sort of a context of what he said before and afterwards. Anyone who joins us in all sincerity, we welcome. [applause] those who do not care for our cause, we dont expect to enter our race in any case. [applause] and let our republican is and so focused not be made fuzzy by on thinking and stupid labels. [applause] i would remind you that extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. [applause] thank you. Thank you. [applause] let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. [applause] the duty of the very system we republicans are pledged to restore and revitalize the duty of the federal system of ours is and its reconciliation of diversity with unity. We must not see in difference of opinion, no matter how great so long as they are not inconsistent with what we have given each other in and through our constitution. [applause] our republican cause how does that speech president along the republican electorate and the voters at large . Richard nixon wrote in his memoirs that when he heard that he clearly felt sick to his stomach. The reason for that was, they had an incredibly divisive convention. Barry goldwater won the most delegates by for because they organized it so well. Many people in the party felt like they had stolen the party. The Republican Party was a moderate party and a conservative had one. What you are supposed to do, your role is to bind the wounds together of a divisive campaign. People can you night and go forward. Instead, he seemed to be pushing in peoples faces his acceptance of this notion of extremism. In the context of the time it meant things like the john birch society. It meant things like the southern segregationists who are changing their democratic affiliation to republican affiliation. The public itself and the context of this kennedy assassination was the idea that the bottom had dropped out of civility, people wanting so much for normalcy, it really did seem like something once again that was frightening, that was strange, that was perverse. His numbers went way down. A week after that, there was a terrible riot and harlem. Increased their sense that Barry Goldwater was associated with these very frightening sources in american life. When people were riding in harlem, people were saying things like, they are shooting black people. This Barry Goldwater is happening. It shows the unfair paranoia that surrounded Barry Goldwater in this atmosphere in which people really felt that to the springs were being listened in americas consensus. Good evening. Welcome to the program. Thank you. In 1986 Congress Passed a scholarship named after Barry Goldwater. Irony every if the skit them based on what i have heard and the panel about his ideology that a federal scholarship would go to students. I think his comments on his use of Public Education and if there is any known about how his feelings of congress awarding him the scholarship. Thank you, matthew. I have not heard that. That is something i would like to learn more about. Certainly it would be ironic if it was true. He looked at the constitution. He did not see any role in their given to the federal government to be involved in education. He spoke out against federal involvement in education. He said, i dont want the federal government to educate my children. I dont what the State Government to educate my children. I want to educate my children. If we can bring this up to modern times, what is so interesting and i think is a great tribute to Barry Goldwater is that arizona is one of the leading states in offering choices to Parents School choice so people are not forced to go into government schools but can use tax money and take that to private schools or online tutoring. I think Barry Goldwater would have loved that and been crazy about that because this was something that he believed at bottom he believes in freedom. Nothing is more fundamental than being able to direct how to were children are educated. The you know of the scholarship part is true . To be heard that . I have heard something or i just remembered after the senator died something about Congress Passing something in science and technology in his name. I cannot remember what it was if it was a scholarship thing. That is vague in my mind. You cannot talk about Barry Goldwater in the 1964 campaign without bringing up the ad you mentioned before. Here once on september 7, 1964, labor day monday. It aired on nbc, cbs, and abc used it as subsequent stories. It is known as the daisy ad. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0 [explosion] in these are the stakes to make a world in which all of gods children can live are to go into the garden. We must either love each other, or we must die. Vote for president johnson on november 3. The stakes are too high for you to stay home. 50 years later, theyre still talking about this ad. Why . It was devastating. He never mentioned Barry Goldwaters time. He did not need to. Keep in mind the whole campaign up to that point focused on the word extremist. That is over and over it in. This was just another little piece of Barry Goldwater is an extremist. He will get us into nuclear wars. I want to Say Something about that ad. That ad is written and designed by tony sorts. Bill moyers per that is not true. That is absurd. Let me finish. Barry goldwater in my show is on camera. He said, bill morris was behind that. He said, i tried years later after words to talk to bill moyers about it. He thought it was a pretty rotten deal. I tried to talk to bill moyers and he never returned my phone call. Susan, his second wife, told me after, bill moyers was in town for something that related to politics. She had occasion to talk to him. Bill moyers said it to susan, yes, it was a shame. I tried to get a hold of Barry Goldwater to talk to him about a lot of times. We could just never beat up. Susan was implying that was baloney. I can state categorically having a record every memo with how the advertisements were created in 1964 that bill moyers had nothing to do with creating that had it. Was White House Press secretary at the time. He wrote memos about the ad. He was involved in the media strategy. He did not create the ad. Question here. The subtitle for your book is the unmaking of a consensus. I am interested in what is making a consensus what is it that was done made and are we making a new one . I think in a sense the word consensus would have to appear in quotation marks. There was a myth that after world war ii that since the Eisenhower Administration accepted the new deal as a template, eisenhower said that anyone who fiddled with Social Security would never live to see another political that. He expanding the welfare state in certain ways. This idea that i might even read just a classic statement about how the american consensus was on top of that the time. The dean of rutgers work in a magazine, in america there are no basic disagreements between intellectuals, bankers, trade unionists, artists, a businessman, the knicks, professional people, and politicians to name a few. There are no real critics, no new ideas, no fundamental differences of opinion. The idea that the western world, not just america, had converged on the idea of the wall street welfare state to organize the world was seen as permanent. What is so fascinating to me and why i called him up before the storm is almost immediately in the 1960s gives like to that notion. Americans are at each others throats. We are debating in the most fundamental ways. It was the american consensus. In 1964 is when we began to see these come apart. Barry goldwater is a central figure in that. If you couldnt just a minute, the issue of civil rights in the 1964 vote, Barry Goldwater voted they tested and it became one of the issues of the campaign. A couple of fascinating points about that. We talked about the Lyndon Johnson television commercials. They had a few in the can boasting about the civil war civilrights deal. They did not run those. The idea of a backlash and civil rights was already present. In california, in the book i publish a headline in the New York Times, what backlash did not develop . Maybe people would vote for Barry Goldwater because there were so terrified of blacks having civil rights. In california on the same day that Lyndon Johnson won by 1 million votes, there was also a vote for a referendum. The of referendum was on open housing. By 1 million votes, californians voted to reject the idea of open housing trade to reject a law that says you cannot discriminate on the basis of race to whom you rent your home. The idea of a backlash against civil rights was a tent at the time and became the most explosive issue in american politics in the decades to come. If you look at what happened in 1952 when Dwight Eisenhower won, but you look at the south and the impact the civil rights vote have for democrats in 1964, what is the difference . That was the party of the carpetbaggers. It was the party if you voted for republicans and they had a total, it would monopolize the blackfoot. There were all these panics about we have all seen gone with the wind. The shift began in 1964. Five states voted for goldwater. When Lyndon Johnson signed it the civilrights bill, he said i and signing away the south for the Democratic Party for at least one generation. The south now is primarily a republican and and that is because conservatives led by Barry Goldwater decided to retreat from the idea of the federal government advancing civil rights for african americans. Two years after and two years after he became governor of california, we had a portion of the speech he delivered. Is called a time for choosing. Late in the campaign as Ronald Reagan talked about the virtues of Barry Goldwater. I think it is time that we ask ourselves now we still the freedoms that were intended for us by the Founding Fathers. Not too long ago two trends of mine were talking to a human graffiti. A businessman who had escaped from castro. One of my friends turn to the other and said we do not know how lucky we are. The cuban stopped and said, how lucky you are . I had some place to skate to. He told us the entire story. If we lose freedom here, there is no place to the state here. This is the last stand on earth. His idea that government is beholden to the people that it has no other source of power behind the sovereign people is still the newest and most unique idea and the worlds longest relationship to man. You and i have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve this last stocks for man on earth or we will force them to stick is that of 1000 years of darkness. We will remember that Barry Goldwater has faith in us. He has faith that you and i have the ability and the dignity and the right to make our own decisions and determine our own destiny. Thank you very much. [applause] from october to date october 22, 1964, what is the history behind that speech . What did he delivered it . I dont know who drafted the speech. He probably does. That is okay. Barry goldwater himself was a great speaker. I mean dramatic. He was wonderful. He did not like prepared written speeches. Somebody wrote to that speech for Barry Goldwater and submit it to him. My source on this is Bob Goldwater and some other historians. He read it and said this is a great speech, but i am not good at giving written speeches. Ronald reagan can do this speech at lot better. They sent it over to him to deliver it on tv or wherever it was. Ronald reagan did it. That was the beginning of a reagan ending up as president was that speech which was written for Barry Goldwater. It also led another a number of california executives to coach according to governor in 1966. He had given similar speeches the early 60s. The people who had been in charge of basically handling the money for. Cold waters Television Account for so fed up with the terrible commercials, that basically said if you let us spend it the whole way, will spend it the way we want to. We are going to basically sequester this money. They played hard ball. That is how they got Ronald Reagan on the air. After he gave that speech, telegrams poured into the campaign. Money poured into the campaign. People started talking about Ronald Reagan as a gubernatorial possibility. David said it was the best political debut he had ever heard of since the speech by William Jennings bryant. The relationship, was it a close relationship or was it more of an acquaintance . Ronald reagan, his father was a wealthy physician at new the cold waters. There is a whole fascinating thing ever to my book that these people who ran his campaign did not want Ronald Reagan to give it this speech. It is a little different. He had set thinks about Social Security that Barry Goldwater had gotten in trouble for earlier in the year. Basically what Ronald Reagan said to Barry Goldwater, why dont you listen to it. If you object to it. He do not have to run it. Barry goldwater heard it and said this is great, i dont see what the fuss is about. The rest is history. Good evening. Good evening, sir. He pretty much answered my question. I was wondering what mr. Barry goldwater thought about the way he gave the speech that night. Also, mr. Barry goldwater and Ronald Reagan and William Buckley, did they ever have difference of opinion as far as conservatism or were they in accord . With that, i thank you for taking my question. Thank you. William f. Buckley was actually shut out of the Goldwater Campaign late in 1963. It was a power play by a fellow by the name of it was power politics. William f. Buckley on several different occasions that he did not think that Barry Goldwater would make a good president. He was not ready to be president and not smart enough to be president. Now, Ronald Reagan to talk relationship with William Buckley is complicated. The panama crowd the panama canal, they had a famous debate in which william f. Buckley argued that it was a good thing. Ronald reagan had basically run his 1976 campaign on the idea that it was a bad thing. These are the personality clashes that any of these guys are going to have. Can i recommend that a great book for this questionnaire william f. Buckleys last book that he published is called hiflying high. It is one of the best books ever written and bottled water. I recommend it. Written about Barry Goldwater. I recommend it. I have two questions for the panel to address. I wonder if by engaging over directly about the issue over the it not, Barry Goldwater could have forced Lyndon Johnson to come up with an exit strategy and hasten the wars conclusion. Lets get and will follow up on your second one appeared i am not sure that there were forces trying to persuade Lyndon Johnson to do a lot of things about vietnams. None of them prevailed. I am not sure he could have had much influence on Lyndon Johnson. I do not know. I did not say expert on that. We have some Vietnam Veterans in the crowd. Maybe they know. My second point is we have heard a lot tonight about his consistency. In 1996, he endorsed bill clinton for president. I would love it if the panel could be behind the motivations of that endorsement. He was a guy that could bear grudges. Bob dole had been around a lot in republican politics. I would not be surprised if bob dole had angered him somewhere along the way. I do not know the back story behind it. I would love to know. He also endorsed a woman named karen english for a congressional seat in arizona who was a democrat. She won and served one term. Along those lines, when asked about his consistency, one of my favorite stories is about that. He endorsed someone who was a fiscal conservative but was a democrat over a republican who he thought was a big spender. The Republican Party chairman in arizona called him up and said, you are speaking out too much. You need to get in line. If you dont stop endorsing this democrat, we are or to take your name off of the Republican Party headquarters. Barry goldwater said to him, if the republicans dont remember the principles that we stand for, i will make you take my name off of that. Over the years, especially since he was in retirement, a number of public figures both republicans and democrats would come out here to me with care Barry Goldwater. Why . They admired him. He is one of the time. A person of integrity. They may not have agreed with them, but he was one of the time. You have to keep in mind, one theory daughter died, bill clinton had the flags of the United States lowered to half staff on the day of his funeral. That had never happened before apple probably never happen again. One quick what about Hillary Clinton being a goldwater girl in 1964. He had a very fascinating rehabilitation in the 1970s. There was an article in the New York Times magazine in april of 1974. In 1964 he was bela lugosi. The liberals love Barry Goldwater now. What it was about is how it reviewed a lot of the unfairness that we have been talking about. The reconsideration centered it around the fact he was being so forthright in excoriating Richard Nixon for his lies. Welcome to the program. Thank you so much. I was raised in phoenix and my family worshipped goldwater. We were active in his campaign. My brother became a libertarian and said it would never need to be a Libertarian Party of. Goldwater had just become president. I was then later a 1992 delegate to the Republican Convention. It was going to be a big fight that year, a platform fight over putting abortion in the platform. One week before the convention, empirical water base statement to the press about there was no blankety blank way that should be in the platform. But i got to the convention, there were all of these tables. Here was a big blue button that said barrys right. I bought that and were it the entire week. To this day it is my most prized possession. Barry is still right. Thank you for the call. You know, i think that is a difficult issue. I think a lot of people like to use that to call i am not saying youre caller did this. To position. All water as a libertarian. I think they know that two of the public consider themselves libertarians and try to marginalize him that way. The truth is that a lot of conservatives believe that the federal government should not have any role in the question of whether or not abortion is a crime. William f. Buckley is a pretty strong conservative. I do not think anybody would quibble with that. He also believed that was not the role of the federal government. Marketing comes into play here. The way people took what Barry Goldwater said is not the way people took what will lead f. Buckley said. It were saying the same thing. You cannot talk about during cold water we should point out he left the senate in 1964 because his term expired. He came back and had a very Important Role as he met with Richard Nixon two days before his resignation. What is the story . He was the guy who led a delegation of republicans. It is very simple. Impeachment of a political process, he said that you do not have the votes in the senate to win in a trial. Therefore, you do not want to be the first president to be thrown out on your ear by the senate. You ought to resign. Richard nixon took his advice. Richard nixon resigned on august 9, 1974. The relationship between the two . Testy. Barry goldwater consistently throughout watergate would broad Richard Nixon to tell the truth. He said this is beginning to smell. There was a very famous showdown between Barry Goldwater and Richard Nixon at the 1960 Republican Convention. One of the most important set pieces and conservative history. Nelson rockefeller basically threatened a floor fight unless he could dictate the terms of the republican platform. He forced Richard Nixon to fly to new york to negotiate the terms of the platform. It was announced in chicago where the convention was. Barry goldwater was so mad he give this angry speech calling it munich of the Republican Party. That was when people started demonstrating for Barry Goldwater at that convention to usurp the nomination from Richard Nixon. Ever since that point i dont think he ever really trusted Richard Nixon. Tipping ahead to watergate is what brought on the resignation. Barry goldwater told me and Bob Goldwater reiterates this. The reason that Barry Goldwater was so angry at Richard Nixon leading up to the resignation is because richard was a gd liar. There is a thing in the documentary, from childhood he said that if we did something wrong and we told the truth, we did not get punished. If we glide, we got punished. There is a very strong thing about flying. He was so angry at Richard Nixon for lighting through the water gate. For lying through the water gate. In 1968 i was covering the Republican Convention in miami. I was able to meet Barry Goldwater who was there. He was extremely nice. He struck me as totally different from his national image. I also discovered Ronald Reagan in the back of the news section of an auditorium being interviewed in a booth by nbc. I was the on the what to see him there. Ronald reagan was making noises about running for president at that convention. I stood outside while he was finishing the interview. I think it was with David Brinkley. He came out and by that time a whole lot of other reporters had gathered out there. Mr. Ronald reagan came out. I asked him a couple of questions. Other reporters circled him. There were 20 or 30 of them. I was throwing questions over the top of that. He was very nicely yelling his answers back to my microphone. We want a round a corner. The whole gang of people swept into this table at the end of it knocking over a little man with his typewriter on the floor. I let them go. I stop and help to this little man. I looked into his face and it was theodore s. White. That stopped me right there. He was just so he apologize to me for that. I got to meet three really nice people there. Barry goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and theodore s. White. Thank you for the phone call from new orleans. Conventions were quite different in 1964 and 1968. I do think in the making of the president , teddy white was pretty patronizing tiberi goldwater. The 1964 convention was angry. I was told that it was so impassioned and have violently angry by the media the eastern establishment press, David Brinkley told his son who was a teenager at the time that you are under no circumstances to wear your nbc insignia around san francisco. That is why people were afraid of this idea of the cold Water Movement as this crazy fascist thing. It was a dangerous for any time. In his final two years in the u. S. Senate before retiring, he put forth Ronald Reagans nomination to serve a second term and to beat the republican nominee in 1984. One month ago i sat in my den and watched the Democratic National convention. Speaker after speaker promised the known to every narrow sense his group in the country. They ignored the hopes and aspirations of the largest special Interest Group all and free men and free women. [applause] so tonight, i want to speak about freedom. Let me remind you that extremism as a defense of liberty is no vice. [applause] essential Barry Goldwater . Absolutely. People loved Barry Goldwater. What he was expressing its i can to give me liberty or give me death. And in america, we believe this. I think sometimes the loss of the 1964 campaign is mistakenly interpreted as an outright rejection of those ideas. It was not anything of the sort. You can hear it from the cheering. You can hear it from the reagan revolution. You know, that is what the liberal press at that time wanted people to believe. When he lost the campaign, the New York Times Washington Bureau chief had said that Barry Goldwater had not only lost but have lost the entire conservative cause. There were always talking about the death of conservatism. That is Wishful Thinking. It remains Wishful Thinking on the part of the press. That is classic Barry Goldwater. It reflects what many a americans believe which is that you cannot be too passionate, to committee, or two extreme, if you want to use that word, in defense of our constitutional freedoms. Jay is joining us from the york city. Go ahead please. I just recently became into politics with the election of barack obama. I tried to look and see what the backlash was so i Barry Goldwater looked at Barry Goldwater and read the book conscious of a conservative. You look at certain organizations and they praise these conservatives, i look at the record and try to think what it did not vote for conservative . What is it so monolithic pri what is the situation . He looked at the states right speech. Can conservatives at least understand that when you keep treating people like Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater, all we have to do is pick up the book and the record is right there. Until you can be honest and say you are wrong on this. You cannot say freedom and equality when a whole segment of society feels like they are alienated. I would like to take that, on the air. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you, jay. I certainly understand what the caller was saying in his use. I think more what he is referring to whether he realizes it or not is the image of Barry Goldwater that was put out there has been a crazy guy or a racist or what ever. He really was not. Barry goldwater, you what ever you want, he was never a hateful person. He was never a vengeful person in his handling of politics. I wish some of these 12 people running around for president presently would adopt the niceness of Barry Goldwater. It is important to note also by the end of the 1964 campaign, Barry Goldwater did make a very important and subtle shift on his position on civil rights. He would always say that he was an integrationist. That was his goal for society. By the end of the campaign as he was trying to win the southern states, he did say, our goal is neither to have an integrated or a segregated society. It is to have a free society. He did seem to move away from the idea of integration as a positive good. The reform debate in 1960 and in no debates in 1964. Why . In order to have a debate, you had to suspend a rule of the federal Communications Commission so that every candidate of 30 candidates including the beekeepers party would not have to be on the states. Lyndon johnson wired net income or so it was impossible. He did not want to face Barry Goldwater. It says Something Like maybe he thought Barry Goldwater would have been a worthy adversary. This question is for darcy. The cdt Party Movement as a resurgence of Barry Goldwater movement . I definitely think there are the tea party the best way to answer that is it is not monolithic. There are all kinds of people who constitute the tea party and a lot of ideas in the tea party. If you look at the tea party as a group of people who have fought these gigantic bailouts and washington, they fought the raising of the debt ceiling, they fought the federal takeover of health care. All of these things he would have been with them on. Coming out and some of the major pieces and what the Tea Party Folks are working on. Franklin is on the farm. Welcome you. I would like to make a comment. If we would have elected Barry Goldwater as president in 1964, we would have won the war can and vietnam. He did not believe in Public Opinion to guide the war. I would also like to say that Barry Goldwater i barry told mr. Nixon that he could not hold the south for him or make sure the south would stay for him. They asked him to resign instead of be impeached. Thank you. Franklin, thank you. This stuff about how Barry Goldwater could have miraculously when the vietnam war. The United States paid over the entirety of a land mass of north and South Vietnam with a quarter inch of steel. I think it is a fantasy. A pleasant one, but it is a good position. We just have one minute or two left. Id Barry Goldwater views change as he got over . His basic core philosophy and the way he looked at life and politics. I have had battles and oped pages where people are like, he got senile and it turned liberal at the end. He did not. He was always wassmall l libertarian. Freedom of choice whether it was abortion, gay rights, or any number of things carry he was totally consistent his entire life. I agree with that. Any question about any time. In his life when you look at what his position was and ask a question of whether it was constitutional or not, that will give you the answer to what his position was. People look around to find politicians who were as honest as him and stand for principles. There are few and far between. That is why he gave us his blessing. He knew he could not count on politicians to stand on principle all the time. With regular men and women supporting an organization who believed in those ideas, he would always have a voice for freedom. Rick perlstein, i will give you the final word. What was the legacy of the 1964 campaign and what impact did he have . I think the legacy was organizational. It was the formalization it was the formation of organization that became a permanent conservative movement that lost the battle in 1964 but lived to fight a dozen of battles more. I think his legacy is to have inspired these people to become something become part of something greater than themselves. To inspire people who felt frustrated with the course of the country to take civic action. The book is called before the storm, by rick perlstein. To darcy olsen for hosting us here at the Goldwater Institute. And bill mccune who is a former Arizona State legislature and a producer of a documentary called barry boldwater, an american life. We want to leave you with some of the words of Barry Goldwater with an interview we did with him while he was winding down his political career from the seas and archives in 1985. A data thing i would tell politicians coming into washington your reelection is not going to make or break the United States. Do the best job you can do. That is what you are here for. To defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Be honest. That is all i would tell them pure how about the Republican Party leaders today . I think we have good leadership here today. Lord knows we spent long enough time out of office that we should have learned some things. Politics go in a circle. You will find the liberal elegant running things for a while. Now, we find the conservatives on the way up. The conservatives will run things until he runs out of ideas. The other party or even the Republican Party becomes the liberal party will take over. Our politics in a mirror a cut going around in circles. Ii think that is great. You know where goldwater stands. With goldwater contenders, about the men who ran for the presidency and lost, but changed political history. Thursday, hubert humphrey. The contenders this week at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Cspans washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Every day, we are taking your calls live on the air on the news of the day and we will discuss policy issues that impact you. Coming up thursday morning, on florida and campaign 2020. The federal response to the covid19 pandemic. And president of the foundation for research on equal opportunity talks about the u. S. Response to the coronavirus pandemic and the herd immunity approach. Watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 eastern thursday morning. Be sure to join the discussion with phone calls, text messages, and tweets. Thursday, the Harvard Kennedy Schools Institute of politics hosted a virtual discussion with political reporters on the 202 president ial campaign0. Live coverage begins at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Host Jim Tankersly covers tax issues for the New York Times and is the author of a new book titl