She was the first lady. She has been a u. S. Senator. We are delighted that she is going to have another first with us, as she will be the first speaker in our brandnew series, election 2020, americas role in the world, powered by samsung. This is also at the same time, part of the Atlantic Council front page series. This is our premiere platform of global leaders, we have had heads of state from colombia, afghanistan, venezuela, and singapore. We have had the secretarygeneral of nato. So we are delighted to add former secretary of state, hillary clinton. Between now and november, we will feature the most prominent voices shaping the International Dialogue to explore questions regarding u. S. Leadership and interests in the world alongside our friends and allies. And that of course is always the focus of the Atlantic Council. Secretary clinton knows that this is a time of geographic distance, but at the Atlantic Council, we dont believe so much in social distancing. We have a huge audience, and you can all comment about this event by using Atlantic Council frontpage acfrontpage. So with that, i want to turn to secretary clinton. Secretary clinton, thank you so much for being with us for this important series. Sec. Clinton thank you very much, fred. Mr. Kempe its wonderful to see you, even though its against a screen and you are somewhat distant from us here. This is a historic moment and an unusual war. It is the worst pandemic in a century, the worst economic downturn since the great depression, the most significant racial upheaval in 50 years, and some are saying this may be the most important president ial election of our lifetimes. I wonder if you could speak first to that. You know a lot about history. You have been a president ial candidate yourself. What are the stakes this year . Sec. Clinton well, i agree with that assessment, fred. That this is the most consequential president ial election in a very long time, and for all the reasons that you just pointed out. In addition to the challenges that we face both domestically and internationally in trying to chart a better, stronger approach towards the future, which i believe is at stake in this upcoming election. Just very quickly, we have seen a real failure of leadership here at home and abroad by the current administration. We have seen real disregard for institutions such as nato, but also institutions here at home. An undermining of the rule of law at home and the rulesbased global order abroad. We have seen a failure to respond effectively to the pandemic, and of course, there are many other challenges that have been either ignored or made worse in the last 3. 5 years. So, this is a moment of reckoning not only for the United States, but as you rightly point out, the International Community also has a lot at risk in the outcome of this next president ial election here. Mr. Kempe so, a moment of reckoning. If you look at the challenges for the next president of the United States, they are going to be enormous. And setting priorities is one of the hardest things to do in leadership. If you look at the challenges you have outlined and problems we are facing internally, domestically, and in the world, if you are setting priorities, one through five, what are they . Sec. Clinton its interesting, because i have had this conversation with the Vice President s campaign and increainsgly those in the transition effort thats underway. Because this is not an ordinary time, there will have to be a concerted effort to move on several fronts at once. It reminds me a little bit of when thenpresident elect obama asked me to be secretary of state and he said, look, our economy is in a terrible great recession. Which of course it was back in 2008 and 2009. I have to deal with the economic crisis. But we also have problems around the world. We have neglected our leadership and our alliances in the prior eight years. Well, i think you just have to quadruple that to understand what president elect biden might be facing. And so, i think there has to be a full court press, as we say, both on the economy, at home, dealing with the aftermath of the pandemic, because i dont think it will be over by the next inauguration, making sure that we have a strong response to peoples losing jobs, as well as health care. Because in our country, as you know, health care is often attached to employment, something we are trying to change. And then abroad, we are going to have to quickly move to regain leadership and rebuild alliances and make clear to our competitors and adversaries that the vacuum is no more, that the United States is going to resume a position of Global Leadership and bring people together around common threats, whether it be Climate Change or the Global Pandemic. Mr. Kempe so, as i said earlier, you were the third woman after model and albright and Condoleezza Rice to be after Madeleine Albright and Condoleezza Rice to be secretary of state. Foreign policy doesnt usually play as big a role in president ial elections. And i wondered what role you think it will play this year, whether it will be any different because of the situation we are in. Sec. Clinton well, i think it should, and i hope it will. We have some very serious challenges internationally, and i think the press and the public should be demanding answers from the incumbent, donald trump, and the challenger, joe biden. And i have a lot of confidence in joe bidens experience on the international scene. I worked with him in the senate for eight years. I worked with him in the obama cabinet for four. So, to just take a quick look at what we face, we face this Global Pandemic. We are going to eventually, i hope, only after as is proven only after it is proven, have a safe and effective vaccine, or more than one. Then we will have to figure out how working together in a cooperative way the world can distribute and deliver that vaccine globally so that we really do tame the virus. We are going to have to deal with the continuing interference in our election by putin and the kremlin. This is an ongoing threat to our own democracy, but also to other democracies, and it needs to be addressed firmly and finally rather than allowing it to fester. Because we know from recent intelligence reports that the russians are once again trying to favor and help elect donald trump. We need to have a stable, consistent policy towards china, the most consequential of our global relationships. I dont blame the chinese for filling the vacuum left by the incoherent and inconsistent policies of the Trump Administration, but we cannot permit china to dominate the Pacific Region and beyond and try to substitute its own power and influence for a rulesbased global order. And there are many other issues, whether it be Climate Change, or the renewed effort by iran to get a nuclear weapon, or the unchecked efforts by north korea, and so much else that we are going to have to Pay Attention to. So, i hope that the incoming Biden Harris Administration will be prepared to move on a number of fronts, domestic and international simultaneously. Because the work is rather overwhelming that needs to be done. Mr. Kempe thank you, secretary clinton. Because you mentioned the biden harris ticket, lets deal with a couple of issues that have been in the news the last few days that have been of quite a bit of importance. As you said, Vice President biden has named senator Kamala Harris as his running mate. Vice president ial choices are sometimes written off as not being that important. Others are saying that it should be and will be more important this time, for two reasons, many more as well, because she is a woman of color, and Vice President biden, if he were running for a second term, would be 81 years old. How important is this Vice President ial pick, do you think . Sec. Clinton well, i think it is important and it is significant. Having gone through this myself, you want to pick someone who you think can become president , if necessary. Someone you feel would be a good colleague that you can work with and give increasing responsibility to, and someone obviously who can help you win. And the Vice President concluded that senator harris checks all those boxes. I think that her incredible energy, her experience, her life story, will be very compelling in this election. And having campaigned both with her and for her, i have seen firsthand how thoughtful and focused she can be. So, i think it is an important and significant choice. I think that the country would be in very good hands with a Biden Harris Administration. And now we have 80plus days to try to make sure that we have a free and Fair Election without foreign interference so that the maximum number of eligible americans are able to vote, and their votes be counted so that we are confident in the outcome of the election in november. Mr. Kempe history has shown that an International Event like covid19, you really have to go back to the spanish flu to think of something that consequential, can have huge geopolitical implications. You have talked a bit about how we should respond to it. But in a geopolitical sense, where do you see the opportunity that could be seized, but also whats the danger . Could this accelerate history in a way that many have said would accelerate the relative decline of the United States . Sec. Clinton well, i think thats really up to the United States. And thats why this election is incredibly important in every way i can imagine. You are right, fred, about the history of pandemics. Whether it be the black plague in the middle ages, or the socalled spanish flu 100 years ago. We have seen the failure of governments to deal with the pandemic. And that is a wakeup call for everyone, to understand that we need to both take a hard look at Public Health processes and institutions within countries, but also internationally. I thought it was a grave error for donald trump to attack the world health organization. And to act as though he could pull the United States out of it, something that is more complicated than he lets on. We should be buttressing the world health organization. We should be buttressing gaby, the Vaccine Institution that has been set up internationally. We should be having intense diplomatic conversations with health experts, logistics experts, and others, about how we are going to finally get to a safe and effective vaccine, or perhaps even more than one. And then manage the distribution of it so that we try to bring the world together around defeating the pandemic. Not permit the vaccine nationalism that is taking place right now. So, there is a lot of really important work that needs to be done, and the United States has to be in the middle of it. It cannot sit on the sidelines, being indifferent, or even contemptuous of international efforts, and expect that we are going to benefit ourselves, as well as lead the world. Because the final point is, you know, we saw a virus jump from wuhan, china to the United States, and europe, and now literally the entire globe. And to think that we can shut ourselves off and pretend as though we can deal with it on our own is both scientifically and politically, and strategically, i would say, false. So, i would wish that rather than the behavior we are currently seeing from the Trump Administration, we would see a more thoughtful, smart, engaged, cooperative effort. Because thats what its going to take. It took that to eliminate smallpox. We have been working for decades to eliminate measles and polio. It has to be a global effort, and the United States must assume a leadership role both politically and financially. Mr. Kempe so, something a little bit more like 2008 and 2009 in the Global Financial crisis, when the g20 was created, there was a lot of u. S. Leadership in cooperation with others at that point. The us uk relationship was important, amongst many others. Sec. Clinton i was going to say, fred, i think that we are also going to have lingering financial ramifications from the pandemic. We are obviously seeing very, you know, very slow economic activity. Some of the worst in the last 50 years in parts of europe. And we know what the impact has been here in the United States. And we dont have good data from the rest of the world, but it has obviously had a global impact. So yes, i think there very well could be a role for the g20, working in conjunction with the u. N. , the w. H. O. , with gavi, others who are Major Players in the Public Health arena, to try to learn from the mistakes that were made. You know . Yes, i think its fair to say china was not as forthcoming as it needed to be, as transparent or open in the beginning. We also had a unfortunate lack of preparation, or even understanding in several countries, including our own. The guidebook, the blueprint for dealing with Global Pandemic that the Obama Administration had left for the Trump Administration was disregarded. So, let us hope that individual nations will learn lessons. But let us also hope that collectively, we can put together a more robust and Quick International response and get every nation to buy into it. So that you dont have the role of any nation in the midst of a potential pandemic be to shut down and exclude investigation from international experts. We need to be more open and transparent. Because i fear, fred, that, you know, this is not the last of the viruses that the world will face. In fact, i think that there is a lot a very thoughtful analysis pointing toward this perhaps being the beginning of a continuing Public Health threat that we should be better prepared for internationally, and we need to do that as quickly as possible. Mr. Kempe thank you, secretary clinton. China has come up several times in this conversation. It seems to be the sort of pure competitor of the sort that we have never experienced before. Across so many realms, whether it is technology, economy, military, etc. The Trump Administration has been quite outspoken, has made this a huge priority, particularly in the last couple of weeks. In the past they have said that the u. S. Has ignored china for too long and now we need to stand up. Seems like we dont have a strategy. What could the strategy contain . Sec. Clinton yeah. We have gone through a number of phases with china ever since the nixon opening to china. And for a number of decades, it was certainly in americas interests and the worlds interests, i would argue, to support chinas economic rise, to work to include china in the International Order in all kinds of institutional ways. But i think any relationship has to be constantly reevaluated. And as we have seen with xi jinping, a lot of the aggressive nature of chinas ambitions now are very clear. Militarily and strategically, economically, internationally. And so, you require a clear and consistent approach to china, which we have not seen under the Trump Administration. There have been a series of economic actions taken, not particularly effective, from what i have seen, and a lot of namecalling. But in the meantime, china has extended its road and belt program and increased its influence not only across asia, but into africa and of the south pacific. Even into europe. Certainly, latin america. China is not only Building Infrastructure nationally, but through a competitive Infrastructure Bank that it has set up. So, you see with china, they are playing the long game. And as i say, you cannot blame a country for acting in its own selfinterests. We can question ourselves for not being more effective in how we deal with chinas new, more aggressive, ambitious approach. So, i think it is important to stress that the United States is an asian power, a pacific power. I had those conversations even when i was secretary of state with my chinese counterpart, that we will and intend to protect the South China Sea from colonization by Chinese Military interests. That we stand with our friends and allies in asia, east asia, south asia, in their efforts to protect their territorial integrity. That we should get back into the business of competing for hearts, minds, and infrastructure in different parts of the world. Because it does make a difference. We did a tremendous job under president george w. Bush in fighting the aids epidemic in africa, and spent many billions of dollars saving lives and providing treatment, while china was building soccer stadiums and parliament buildings. But we werent competing. And we had a really strong case to make that we were standing up for, you know, the human rights and the health care, and the freedom of people in africa. And basically, with trump as president , we are absent. We are absent symbolically, and we are absent substantively. So, i think there is a lot we can do to rebuild our presence. We also should not shy away from continuing to speak out about human rights in china, about the uighurs, about the crackdown in hong kong. I think theres a real audience within china and around the world for the u. S. Regaining its voice when it comes to human rights. So, theres a real opportunity here, fred, that i think that a Biden Harris Administration would quickly seize to try to get our relationship with china back on a steadier, more predictable course. And reassert americas standing and leadership in asia and beyond. Mr. Kempe secretary clinton, where does europe stand in this . Let me take you back to 2013. The Atlantic Council gave you its highest honor, the distinguished leadership award. It was given to you by Henry Kissinger to underscore bipartisan, nonpartisan credentials. And you spoke about the centrality of the atlantic relationship in terms of energy, trade, and regarding russia. But now china is front and center. You said americas future is bound up in the future of europe. Does that remove the case now, or are we just being nostalgic looking back at the transatlantic relationship . What role do you think it has in this day and age . Sec. Clinton no, i dont think it isnt nostalgia at all. I think its realpolitik, to use a term associated with kissinger. I think one of the great advantages the United States has historically has had, which we have unfortunately squandered in the last 3. 5 years, is our network of alliances. And there is none that has been more consequential and longlasting than the Atlantic Alliance. And i believe strongly that democracy is under attack around the world. Governance has not lived up to what People Living in democracies have every right to expect. We have a lot of work to do within the Atlantic Alliance to rebuild the democratic pillars of our nations and our interrelationships. I still believe there is an incredibly Important Role for nato. The aggressiveness of russia as we have seen it, in georgia, ukraine, the kind of activity we are seeing currently in russia, and the kind of threats that russia has posed to democracies from the baltics to the balkans. There is a great deal of work to do between europe, the United States, and canada in once again strengthening our Democratic Alliance and taking a hard look at where we have fallen short. Trying to support, as the eu is has tried to do, the democratization within countries. Which as we have seen in hungary, turkey, and elsewhere. Even the nato members has been a bit disappointing, to say the least. So yes, the transAtlantic Alliance should remain at the core of American Foreign policy vision and objectives. And i would hope that one of the first internationally that a new administration does is to reaffirm the centrality of that Atlantic Alliance. Mr. Kempe we are getting a number of questions in from twitter. Many of them circle around the whole issue of civil society. It takes a village. Particularly with black lives matter. The question i would ask is the distinction between Domestic Health and international policy, one of our Atlantic Council founders, one of your predecessors as secretary of state, actually wrote a letter into the amicus brief for the board of education in the early 1950s, and he said that racial discrimination, quote, jeopardizes the maintenance in lemoore leadership in the free and democratic nations of the world. How do you view whats happening in the country right now in civil society, and how does that interact with our International Group . Sec. Clinton well, i think that this is a moment of great moral reckoning over Structural Racism in our country, and i am hopeful that real change will occur. The young people leading the black lives matter movement, other young people who are engaged in peaceful protests, are certainly crying out for changes in many institutions, and attitude towards race and ethnicity and religion and gender in america. And it is a very serious internal threat to our way of life and to our unity. But as dean acheson said, all those years ago, it also impacts americas image and leadership abroad. You know, during the 2016 campaign, fred, one of the russian tactics that we learned about afterwards was to sow racial discord. To create phony events. To have a heavy Online Presence that really stoked racial animosity and fear. The russians have been at that a very long time, as a recent excellent book by David Scheiber called rigged lays out. The russians under the soviet union, and now the federation under putin, have always tried to highlight racial strife and inequities in the United States as a way of undermining our aspirations for democracy, our values about moving towards a more perfect union. They have taken any opportunity they could to try to paint a much darker picture of the United States. So, i think both and first, probably most importantly, we have got to do better internally, ourselves. There have been some important legislative changes in some states and cities, and there is a good piece of legislation called the George Floyd Justice and policing act that actually passed in the house of representatives on a bipartisan basis, to try to deal first and foremost with injustice in policing and in the Law Enforcement community and in the criminal justice institutions. But we have got to go further than that. We have to be honest about the biases that often influence how we view each other, how we treat each other, whether or not we are willing to make room in more ways in society for more people to have a real shot at their own opportunity and Better Future for themselves. And so, i hope that this moment is not lost. I hope that the kind of Campaign Trump is now running, which is a very divisive one, is repudiated in our election, and that we can try to, you know, heal the country by actually taking specific steps to remedy the lingering and deeply, profoundly sad injustices that we still live with. Mr. Kempe so, not to let the moment get lost, heal the country for sure, but at the same time, understand foreign actors who are trying to exploit our divisions. So i think that is a good way to look at it. Sec. Clinton right. Another question that is coming in, questions coming in about the middle east, in the news, the uae and israel are normalizing relations. Israel has agreed not to annex the west bank in return for it. That would look like a victory for the Trump Administration for the middle east. On the other hand, we still have other messes in the middle east. You have dealt with a lot of the middle east in your lifetime. How do you view this, and in general, what role does the middle east play in another presidency . Is it more withdrawal from the region because it is not as important to us as it once was, or is there another approach . Sec. Clinton well, with the middle east, i think we should be grateful to see any progress, no matter when or how it proceeds. And this potential breakthrough is promising. We have to see that it actually israellace, and that backs off of its intention to annex the west bank. And i hope that the normalization of relations with an arab gulf power like the uae will bring some stability to the situation in the middle east. There are still so many problems, that i dont see how the United States can walk away. We have got not only the continuing challenges of israel and the palestinian dilemma of trying to figure out how best to live together with a secure israel, with an autonomous palestinian entity of state. We have got the tragic situation in gaza, which has great implications for continuing conflict. We have the collapse of lebanon. The tragedy of the explosion in beirut is just beyond words. What happened there and the loss of not only so much housing and business, but half of the health care facilities. The hospitals were wiped out. The port was, you know, destroyed. You know, i feel such a sense of despair for the people of lebanon who have been so poorly governed over the last years and of syria andawn its allies, and the saudis and its allies. I hope that the world as president macron has called out, will assist lebanon, but lebanon has to be governed better. And you know, the sectarian governance that put interests of groups far, far ahead of the whole, had disastrous consequences. Look, we still have challenges in egypt and libya. In iraq, syria, obviously. And we have a changing situation in iran. When we were talking about china earlier, one of the more interesting and potentially challenging developments is that iran and china are entering into a military and economic agreement. And i put that directly at the door of the Trump Administration that pulled the United States out of the iran agreement that i began the negotiations for as secretary of state, and my successor, john kerry, was able to bring to a successful conclusion, was able to to put a lid on the Iranian Nuclear weapons program. Course any problems they have, the Trump Administration could have sought to negotiate changes that they wished for. But instead, they pulled out, giving a green light to iran to pursue its Nuclear Weapons agenda. China is now cooperating with iran. China was one of the countries i had to persuade to vote for International Sanctions at the Un Security Council to set the table for the negotiations. And of course, we know that if iran pursues Nuclear Weapons, the gulf states will likewise, and i cannot imagine a more dangerous situation than a Nuclear Arms Race in the persian gulf. So, there is an enormous amount at stake in the middle east, and no responsible administration could ever walk away from that. Mr. Kempe i am so glad you drilled down a little deeper on iran. I think a lot of viewers in america have not paid as much attention to the chinese iranian relationship, which seems to be a change that seems to be different. Do you go right back to jcpoa if you are a newly elected President Biden . How would you manage that . Can you just pick things up, or has it been so altered that you need a different strategy . Sec. Clinton well, thats a question to be answered, fred. Because i think it would be in to United States interest rejoin the iran agreement. Just as it would be to rejoin the climate agreement. We are now the only nation not in the paris climate accord. But with respect to iran, i think it is important for the United States to not only join the agreement, but to try to put the lid back on. The Iranian Nuclear weapons program, keeping it firmly on while preventing a nuclear arms emiratessaudies or the egyptians ore whoever else thinks that if iran has a Nuclear Weapons program, they should have 1, 2. The best way to do that is rejoin the agreement. At this point, i dont know if iran would be receptive to that. They may have moved on. Remember, there was always a conflict between the political and clerical leadership in iran. And obviously the military leadership as to whether or not to put the lid on the program under the agreement. Again, i dont think we would know unless we resumed diplomacy. I dont think it is in the interests of iran to have continuing sanctions against it. Even with chinese support, its not economically enough, if the rest of the world renews pressure. It would have to be explored. I can only tell you that it was very important to try to get the world behind sanctions. In the george w. Bush administration we voted to sanction ron every way we could, but that was the United States alone. When i became secretary of state, we saw it together as essential to bring the world together, not just unilateral sanctions. And it was difficult, you know, a lot of countries have very big energy deals with iran. But we did it. We got everybody on the same page. Its doable. Time has moved on, different relationships have developed, but you cant tell how far you can go unless you take that first step and i would urge a new administration to tackle that as among its many important challenges off the bat. Fred last question, and i will double on this one, a way of cheating on the last russian. This is such a rich conversation. You know from previous conversations that i love the question, what keeps you up at night. I want to get a feeling in general, in your lifetime, is there something uniquely fraught and dangerous . In all the things, iran, china, north korea, venezuela, what worries you the most . You cared so much about soft power. You were the secretary of state. Whats our status of soft power in the world and what role does it play in this dangerous landscape . Sec. Clinton you are right, that is a doublebarreled question. I worry a lot about the spread of Nuclear Weapons. Other dangerous weapons like biological and chemical weapons, worse, but i remain singularly focused on the spread of Nuclear Weapons. I would like to see her new love negotiation with russia. The new start treaty that my dear friend and a great patron of the Atlantic Council, allentown sure ellen tauscher, negotiated at the state department. It is set to expire. I would like to see it renewed. The ongoing dialogue with the russians over their Nuclear Weapons program, which appears to have moved into tactical nukes and other kinds of experimental weaponry. I would like to see and or miss pressure put on china to join arms control discussions. I think that the Obama Administration in our first term, we tried to set up a plate for nuclear strategic summary. We had several meetings bringing together the countries with known Nuclear Weapons programs and those that have an interest in trying to control the spread of Nuclear Weapons. I think it has to be renewed and deepened. Not only a rogue nation like korea, but the, the accident, the takeover of a Nuclear Program in a country by extremists of whatever stripe they might be, or criminal elements, who are in the marketplace on a regular basis trying to buy or Sell Nuclear Material that could at least go into a dirty bomb. That would be my number one concern, you know, with biological and chemical weaponry also needing to be paid attention to. As i said earlier, we also have to strengthen our international Public Health response. Potential pandemic, you have to take seriously the security implications of Climate Change. That was something i focused on in the senate in the Armed Services committee. Mass migration, increasing conflict over water and land because of Climate Change. We are ill prepared for that. The temperature in baghdad has broken all records. I just cant really underscore strongly enough how Climate Change is a security challenge that has to be addressed. Those are the areas i would pay immediate attention to. As for soft power, fred, i think we have squandered our soft power. I dont think that the United States has the influence that we should have in global debates or in how we are viewed. Particularly by young people around the world. I think we have to rebuild soft power. I like the phrase smart power, it combines the elements of the hard power necessary in defense with soft power that is viewed as part of development and diplomacy. We have got to smarten up our Global Presence and once again try to influence people and events through the power of our example. As opposed to the example of our power. That is an old cliche, but it is an important one to keep in mind. We have to set the standard for a rulesbased global order and it is very much in americas interest and the world that we assume that leadership position again. Fred what a terrific close to this Opening Event of americas role in the world 2020. We must set the example for the rulesbased order and lead with our allies and friends, creating it in the first place. Secretary clinton, thank you so much for this and are mostly rich conversation. I also want to now for viewers introduce the cochairs of the Atlantic Council 2020. By the way, thank you for missing ellen. We miss her so much. Sec. Clinton i know. Fred i would like to introduce our cochairs. We have the director of the slug coverage begins at 9 00 eastern left streaming and ondemand at cspan. Org. Or listen with the free cspan radio app. Cspan, your unfiltered view of politics. Washington journal, this week getting your reaction to the news of the day. Live, tuesday morning, we will talk about the Democratic National convention with Jennifer Epstein and the discussion of the role of minority women in politics. Allison. Be with amy cspans washington journal, live at 7 00 p. M. Is 10, join the discussion. Watch complete coverage of the Democratic Convention live on cspan. Find the latest convention scheduling information at cspan. Org dnc. Also, our email newsletter word for word offers a synopsis of the days events. Sign up as cspan. Org connect. The u. S. House of representatives is currently on a district work. Call pelosi has decided to