Chairwoman, and thank you for holding this hearing today. This has been a very difficult week for all of us. As we mourn the loss of congressman john lewis of georgia, a hero to some any of the, a champion for equality, we must, too remember the sacrifice and legacy he and Many Americans made in fighting for our rights and freedom. When discussing the removal of confederate monuments, congressman lewis described these efforts as the beginning of the movement that would help us move toward the realization that we are one people, one nation, and we have to be. Ensitive to our own history just this week, we in the house of representatives are honoring this movement in the nations capitol by voting on historic legislation that will remove the defenders of the horrific system of slavery, segregation, and racism from the u. S. Capitol building. I am proud of the work of our chair and all of our colleagues are doing to demonstrate that our public lands and parks belong to all americans. This is an opportunity to shine a light on stories of great individuals who have not stood for hate or opera russian or orinst our union come oppression or against our union, but rather those who reflect our ideas and those whose valuable contributions to build the fabric of our nation. Dr. Coleman, thank you for being here and for the important work you are doing to inform us of our history. For those who may not understand these symbols or the impact they have, can you please share with us some stories or experiences that you have heard working on this issue . Tot do these statues mean americans, particularly black americans, when they are held in places of honor . Dr. Coleman the simple answer is, and i have been working on this issue for a number of years, part of my background was serving as ceo of the American War Museum in richmond, virginia where these conversations have been taking place in earnest since 2009 when we began preparing for the centennial of the American Civil War. Ground zero,y far the place where the lost cause was born and fed, the place where we saw the nations first and largest monument built to robert e. Lee that went up in specifically to stand taller than George Washington statue which is on the commonwealth of virginia capitol grounds. To africanamericans, this has a front from day one. It is more often than not the symbol of a simple question, and that question is, where would you like the world to place the monument of the person who kidnapped your children, your ancestors, killed them . Where would be the appropriate place . How do you think this particular better going to help us understand our history . Especially when placed in such veneration . I also acknowledge having worked at the American Civil War museum, that there are those individuals who have felt that these monuments and the people to whom, that they represent, are actually displays of other types of values home, standing for ones etc. Frankly, all of that is a part narrative thatse was created. So as a museum executive sorry, thank you. Rep. Horsford mayor landrieu, thank you for your testimony and for your continued work to remove inappropriate memorials to the confederacy across the United States. For Many Americans can let this debate is about our history. They see the removal of these statues as a radical act to remove our history. If you have the opportunity to speak to someone holding those views on those issues, what would you say to them . I would say, who we choose to remember or revere is as important as who we have forgotten, and our history is much deeper and much broader and much richer than the very narrow history they chose to remember, and there are lots of us in this country, as the truth stands a cross time, if we want to be fully american, we ought to remember all our history. Revere in is very different from remembering. Should always remember so we never repeat. Reverence is famed for those who represent the best values that america has to offer reverence is left for those who represent the best values that america has to offer. Rep. Horsford thank you. I yield back. Chairwoman haaland the chair. Ecognizes mr. Norton ms. Holmes norton. Rep. Norton . Thank you, madam chair. I really want to thank you for this hearing. I hope that you can hear me. For dr. Smith,on but i also want to make sure i understood dr. Locontes testimony. With himly agree that the takedown by mobs or is a mostmonuments inappropriate way to do it. Do i understand, dr. Loconte commit but you agree they should be taken down and perhaps put in museums . Dr. Loconte thank you for that question. Historian, i am not a policy guide. My great concern is that we understand the context of these things come about we use the money meant a teaching moment, not elevate people who we can agree were on the wrong side of history. The wrong side of these important questions. We dont want to valorize that. I will leave it to others to decide what is the best way to teach history with integrity. Rep. Norton i appreciate it. Even putting them in a museum would not be sufficient unless there was, around those monuments, the story of what they stood for, what the history and objective story for that matter. Dr. Smith, thank you for being here as well. You may know that the department of the interior has indicated that the department opposes efforts to remove confederate symbols from public spaces. I want to read to you how they frame it. Alone, its not ours belongs to the generations of the past, the present, the future, to serve as a collective national memory. What the sake think of the departments position . Hard to discuss this without thinking about it as a black person, and africanamerican born in to college in a 1959 and was part of the civil rights movement. So every time i have seen it is monuments, every time i drive down robert e. Lee highway, i feel like the public has done me an injustice. It is hard for me to talk about it without looking at it that way. Although it sounds like they dont care what we think, they dont care what africanamericans think, they dont care that our blood boils when we pass these things. What we are seeing now with the , they areising starting to take matters into their own hands. That means there is some urgency about what we are doing now. [indiscernible] norton i appreciate it that. Let department frames its dustition more delicately, the department frames its position more delicately. The president says he wants those taken down to be put back. There is a simple way to do from a way to keep forgetting. To forget would be an atrocity. This is history that very much in it to be remembered. Let question before us is how the remembrance should take place. Thank you, again, madam chair, for this hearing and allowing me to ask my questions. I yield back. Chairwoman haaland thank you, miss norton. The chair recognizes mr. Brown for five minutes. Rep. Brown mayor landrieu, i want to thank you for testifying today and for your work in this area. I remember your eloquent speech in 2018. He also stated in that speech, while some have driven by these monuments everyday and either revered their beauty and ,ere able to see them in awe many are painfully aware of the people shadows of their presence cast, not only literally but figuratively, and he received a message that the confederacy and the cult of the lost cause intended to deliver. Many received the message that the confederacy and the cold of the most cause intended to deliver. You are a mayor of a southern testifiedyou may have to this, but i apologize because many members are having to leave at different times to vote. I apologize if the question is redundant, that why was it important for you to remove these statues even in the face of National Backlash and criticism . Mr. Landrieu first of all, the city of new orleans is preparing anniversary and to do that, you start to take stock of your history, who you are. You think about where you have been and where you are going and you ask yourself if you have been living with integrity. These monuments were right smack in the middle of the city in its most prominent places that would to the people who came there that that is what the believe. D they only represented four years of our history, and it was an inaccurate representation. The places where the statue was was actually where the union troops left so if we wanted to reflect the history and orleans, thosew monuments were a historical lie. It was important if we believed that out of many we were one, that we at our public spaces and revered those values that made us who we were. Sorestuck out like a thumb, so it was important not only to remove the monuments, but to think about the system going forward. I would recommend to do a deep dive about how we make institutional changes to make america available for everybody. Rep. Brown thank you. Reverend lee, thank you for your appearance today. Can you elaborate on the point themade in your oped in Washington Post, where you stated that many of my fellow southerners are afraid that if we remove the monuments, we will forget robert e lee and his heritage. What is the certain understanding and its loss to which you refer . Rev. Lee i think many of my fellow southerners especially have this mentality that we have always had a way and it has always been. You go back where i live, if you ask them how to cook that way, it has always been that way. How you raise children, it has always been that way. Just to say that we have a way of doing things. Unfortunately, in the genesis of that way of doing things, we realized that white people could could aantage, president ial shortages in and White Supremacy to black people. For many, we think they are past that, but we still take advantage of those systems that oppress cause it has a was been that way. We have to chart a new course, a new vision. A new way of doing something together. For some people, that is downright scary. Rep. Brown thank you. Dr. Loconte, i am so pleased with your response to my colleague from the district of columbia because i was concerned with your testimony, you included in the middle and you seem to have finished with an , whichs on mob rule is so far from the deliberative process we are engaged in here in congress. I do agree with you that we need to value and respect and honor the values of freedom and fairness. As anestion for you is, historian, is it appropriate for congress to take up the insideration of this issue, many cases, statues and monuments erected in previous generations on different pretenses . Is it appropriate for this body that reflects the will of the people to deliberate on whether we should remove them or not . [inaudible] dr. Loconte sorry about that. The democratic process is what i am excited about that is happening in this room, whether at a federal level or local level, what i am concerned about as an historian, mob rule is a dangerous thing and i dont think we should take it lightly. It doesnt take many bad actors to turn the city into chaos and bring a nation down. I have been living in washington, d. C. The last 20 years, i have never seen so many that should let me just reclaim my time. I dont think anyone in this room is not concerned with mob rule. Most of us in this room distinguish that from peaceful protest, but we understand there were perhaps some unlawful takedowns of statues. That is not my question. My question is, this deliberative process that may result in the removal of statues , is that legitimate for no . Ress to do, yes or dr. Loconte it has to be done democratically. Absolutely, sir. Back. Rown i yield chairwoman haaland i will now recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Loconte, you mentioned in your testimony the statues of Christopher Columbus are being targeted by protesters, and you mentioned the statues of columbus along with George Washington. Seemingly as if those sketches should remain untouchable. I want to tell you why protesters are targeting statues of Christopher Columbus. I am a 35th generation new mexican. Christopher columbus murdered thousands of Indigenous People when he came over to this part of the world. He opened the door for europe to come and colonize this continent when millions of Indigenous People had lived here since time immemorial. They brought disease, they brought violence and oppression. And genocide. This country is founded on genocide, which, in my opinion i have a minor in history, certainly not a major which is a precursor to how they would treat the slaves when they brought africans over here to work and make people rich. So i just want to say that because i could not let this hearing go by without mentioning that. So thank you. Ms. Coleman, my question is for you. Although the bills included in todays hearing focus on the commemorative works glorifying confederate leaders who championed continued enslavement and brutalization of africanamericans, a are countless other places throughout the nation that bear the names of individuals committed th known to have atrocities. Would you say that is a larger issue that goes beyond confederate statues . Dr. Coleman yes. The simple answer is yes, i do. As you just mentioned about columbus and others, thei there is a horrific past there. I am appreciative about wanting to learn these things. What disturbs me is when people say that the removal of these objects is somehow taking away the history. We know that king george iii was king of these 13 colonies before the american revolution. Every single statue of him was taken down by the people, not i deliberative process. Was born out of civil and social unrest sometimes turning into protest and damage , for example, the boston tea party. What becomes important for us to understand is that we have to be we look forward and as we look back on the past, to determine which values we want to set forward. We will not forget the atrocities, we cant, but we venerate when we venerate figures responsible for those atrocities, that in and of itself is an erasure. They be alone in this, but are individuals i do believe even in their imperfect selves this is about the realities that there are individuals that gave us funding language of being a better place, of having a more perfect union, that we can cling to even if they did not. Incumbent upons communities to make these andsions for themselves, where deliberative processes can take place if they do. But i am keenly aware that communities often disenfranchise voices. They often pick people they want to hear from, so we have to be careful of that, too. Chairwoman haaland in your opinion, what should congresss role be . How should we be thinking about this issue programmatically . The car coleman first and foremost dr. Coleman first and foremost, you have to understand what you have, and then begin the process. The battlefields are a little different because they do have figures for all sides. What is often missing from those battlefields is any representation of the 200,000plus africanamerican men who served. What is also missing is the 16 different native nations that are aligned with the United States against the confederacy. Those are missing. That is where the additive role becomes more important. Chairwoman haaland thank you so much. I yield. I would like to recognize mr. Huffman for another question. You, madamn thank chair. I want to go off my prepared materials and see if i may ask a question to the great panelists we have here today, who have worked so hard on these from thes with symbols confederacy. Baseway from the military named fort bragg on the other side of the country, i represent a Little Community on the california coast named fort bragg. It is an interesting quirk of history for those who would look at it as some historic significance that it was named before the civil war. Connection. S no he never set foot there or ever went close to it. It inherited this name on the historic lark, and it has continued for generations. Fastforward to 2020, we are having an interesting conversation in the community of fort bragg, which is a wonderful, kind, and nonracist community grappling with the fact that it has a really bad name that does not represent who they are or who they have ever been. But a lot of folks have nostalgia and memories and other things attached to that name. So i would like to ask any of our panelists what they would say to this community i represent that is struggling in its own way in this moment that our country is in to figure out what to do about this particular anachronistic symbol that, like it or not, exults a confederate hero, Braxton Bragg . Rev. Lee we have spoken a lot about congressman john lewis. I had the opportunity to preach to him at the Ebenezer Baptist church in atlanta, the Historic Church of that Martin Luther king was pastor of. He was actually dancing to a says, he the singer is an alltime god. By divine providence, we have been given an opportunity to that most the fact all jet equal our ability to change things. We should want to change things and not be complacent through our nostalgia. That is the most dangerous thing we can do it has always been that way i have to deal with lead in church. People say, it has always been that way, we cant change it. That is a nogo. We have to have this conversation now. Rep. Huffman mayor landrieu, do you have any thoughts you would like to share . Pretend tou not to be irreverent, but i am always mindful of gods grace, he always gives us a chance for a new will and to think about who and what we are. From a process point of view, that is a local decision that should be made by the community, not the federal government, certainly not my congress. , agree with the reverend though, holding on to nostalgia is useless. Communities should think about who they are. There is consequence to living under the shadow of someone that fraud to destroy the country for the sake of preserving slavery some communities so far away from the south were named after a confederate world. It is the decision the community has to make. But if i were a member of the community, having learned what i have learned and knowing what i know now, i would prefer to change the name. Rep. Huffman appreciate that. Anyone else care to comment . Mr. Smith this is frank smith. This is an opportunity for the community to talk and we rethink and come up with a name that may better represent the values that community holds. This is an important discussion. I saw something in the Washington Post a few weeks ago saying that we need to build more monuments. I am on that side. He said we should put them up all over the country and i agree with that. Somebody needs to pay some attention to trying to get some things on the landscape that represent the most important to this country. The civil war shamed this country. It is an important time in our history and we have to find a way to talk about it that brings us more together because this is a great nation that got out of this and we ought to be able to do about it in a way that makes sense. Rep. Huffman those are great thoughts. Let them chair, thank you for indulging the additional question and thank you to the panelists. Chairwoman haaland of course. The chair will recognize mr. Mceachin for a few minutes. Mceachin thank you, madam chair. Participants, thank you for joining us. Todays hearing is personal for me. I am a proud native of richmond and a student of political history. I believe our nations monuments and statues can be unifying symbols of the historical sacrifices and contributions made by all americans, and a. Ource of shared adriatic pride unfortunately, too a source of shared, patriotic pride. Unfortunately, too many confederate memorials minimize the history of slavery and racism. Demandsmy constituents for the removal of these symbols of the country. H. R. 7550, legislation to inventory confederate commemorative works on certain federal lands, and evaluate them. [indiscernible] where they are located and to what extent they are being used appropriately. I would like to ask a few questions if she is available. I am. Rep. Mceachin thank you. Coleman, i ms. Apologize. Thank you for speaking about the importance of having a picture persist on public lands. How would you respond to the belief that monuments on public lands are fundamentally different in nature from public works placed in public spaces . Reppo coleman you are breaking up a little bit, but i think i understand what you are asking dr. Coleman you are breaking up a little bit, but i think i understand what youre asking. A huge difference about the placement of statuary at battlefield sites for example, or cemeteries, for example. The problem is when these land,s are in public i. E. , in front of courthouses, Police Department them in front of schools, in general parks. It misses them in an entirely different context and that context, i believe, is ultimately harmful. Again, whyngs i think your proposal is a good one, we have to identify where they are and how and when they were placed and then that will provide the kinds of answers that are needed to make the determination of the next steps. Mceachin what comes next,. Fter a call for removal my concern is for federally managed landscapes. Recommendations for that part of the process . Coleman like mayor landrieu, in richmond, virginia, we had the monument avenue commission, a deliberative process that lasted about 18 months, where we held public , etc. ,nd took in we had a team of scholars looking at the history behind each and every one of them, presented that information to the public and partnered with the Museums Community enrichment to better educate our community to come up with the decision, and the decision the community made was put in place. The challenge we had was that in richmond and in the state of virginia, there was a law on the books that said that these objects could not be removed. The law was made in 1904, the exact same year they disenfranchised 95 of black and half of white voters who were not of an income level. So it was not the mistake the law was made. The law was changed. Those are the things every state and every committee needs to carefully look at. Rep. Mceachin thank you, ms. Coleman. I think my time was about to run not. I will just say this, in america , we have a responsibility to not only learn from, but confront our history and to strive for a more complete telling of our history. I thank my colleagues in my constituents. Thank you, and i yield back. Chairwoman haaland thank you, mr. Mceachin. I thank the witnesses for their runnable testimony and the members for their questions. Members of the committee may have additional questions, we will ask you to respond to these in writing. And are the Committee Role 30, members must submit answers to the questions within 15 days. The hearing will be open for 10 Business Days for these responses. If there is no further business, without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. [bangs gavel] [chatter] [indistinct conversations] theive wednesdays on house returns. Including a bill to remove a federal bust from the u. S. Capitol and replace it with their good marshall. On cspan2, the senate is back at 10 00 to continue work on the 2021 defense program. At 9 00 a. M. On cspan3, a fema administrator, peter gaynor, testifies on the response to the coronavirus pandemic. The senatep. M. , Foreign Relations committee looks at u. S. Competition with china. Coming up in one hour, pennsylvania congressman glenn thompson, a member of the house education andor