Transcripts For CSPAN House Hearing On Confederate Statue Removal Legislation - Part 1 20240712

Meeting to hear racist symbols on our public lands. Under Committee Rule 4f, any l Opening Statements designees. This will allow us to hear from our witnesses sooner and help members keep their schedules. Therefore, i ask unanimous consent and that all other members Opening Statements be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted to the clerk by 5 00 p. M. Today or the close of the hearing, whichever comes first. Hearing no objection, so ordered. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess subject to the call of the chair because there are votes. So we will have to break for that. As described in the notice, statements, documents, or motions must be submitted to the electronic repository at h r see hnrc. Members are responsible for their own microphones. As with our in person meeting, members can be muted by staff only to avoid inadvertent background noise. Anyone present in the hearing room today must wear a mask, covering their mouth and nose. The speaker of the house and the sergeant at arms acting upon the recommendation of the attending physician require face coverings for all indoor gatherings over 15 minutes in length such as committee meetings. Accordingly, to maintain decorum and protect the safety of members and staff, the chair will not recognize any member who is not wearing a mask. According to house will 17, and Committee Rule 3d, the chair retains the right of recognition. The responsibility to maintain to quorum. Thank you all for attending todays subcommittee on National Parks, forests, and public lands. Legislative hearing on three bills that grapple with the ramifications of confederate statues, memorials, and symbols in public spaces throughout the country. I would like to start by welcoming the sponsors as well as the distinguished panel of witnesses joining us today to think about this quickly issue. I would also like to acknowledge the fact that there are not any republican bills on todays agenda and recognize this may cause some frustration among my colleagues on the others of the dais. Throughout my tenure as chair of the subcommittee, approximately one third of the bills scheduled have come from the public and sponsors. I remain committed to finding opportunities for bipartisanship and i am hopeful that we can even find some consensus on the issues before us today. On racismal reckoning and injustice precipitated by the tragic murder of george floyd makes it clear that todays conversation is not only necessary but long overdue. Thannot imagine that more 150 years after the end of the civil war, president lincoln would have expected us to still be coming to terms with the legacy of slavery, racial disc termination, and inequalities that the confederacy fought to uphold. The least we can do is challenge ourselves to question the origin and meaning of symbols we choose to display. President trump has defended Confederate Monuments as our heritage and spoken of their artistic beauty. Thatver artistic beauty may exist in a statue or individual memorial is irrelevant and it bears mentioning that many confederate weremorations and works established decades later, at the peak of jim crow, a notsosubtle reminder of the bigotry that permeates our society today. Witnesses today. Many communities across the country have begun to remove statues and other symbols of the confederacy from parks and other public spaces. Some have been removed or toppled by protesters but just this month alone, 19 statues have been removed. Only three were taken down by protesters. I point this out not to condone the unsanctioned removal of statues but as a reminder that without government and community action, these symbols will continue to perpetuate racism and inspire hate and malice on both sides of this issue. Especially on public lands, which often have a racist history of their own. It is essential that we tell a story that can be embraced by all americans. This is not about erasing history. Museums and historic battle fields will continue to tell the story of the conflict and circumstance that led to the confederacy taking up arms against the United States, but our shared heritage need not glorify the hate, bigotry, and intolerance that resulted in a war that claimed more american lives than any other in u. S. History. Clear. Be the civil war was fought over slavery. That is not a subject for debate. As a country, we must strive to be better, to embrace justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion in all aspects of our lives. Stop atoning should not the confederacy either. Looking forward, i hope we can also take steps to address other places throughout the country. Glorifye names that individuals responsible for committing unspeakable atrocities. We also need to invest in education and interpretation to ensure that this history is not lost or else we are dooming ourselves to repeat it here rather than prioritize education, President Trump has decided to focus on a few acts of petty vandalism to justify sending anonymous federal troops into our cities to kidnap and harass our citizens. Often over the objections of local governors, mayors, and other civic leaders. This is not how we heal and move Forward Together as a society. Something that we are still seeking 150 years after president lincolns second inaugural address which was delivered weeks before general lees surrender and lincolns assassination in washington, d. C. The last line of that now famous speech, he said, with malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness and the right that god gives us, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nations wounds, to care for him, who shall have borne the battle for his widow and orphan, to do all which may cherish ad lasting peace amongst ourselves and all nations. Clearly, we are still striving for that just and lasting peace and hope todays conversation can help us move towards that seemingly elusive goal. With that, i will recognize our Ranking Member, mr. Curtis, for his opening statement. Thank you, madam chairman, for your remarks. Thank you, for joining us today. There are three bills related to monuments and memorials which include symbols or depicts figures associated with the confederacy. 970, would remove a statue of the confederate general robert e lee from the National Battlefield statue which was placed on private property in 2003 and was purchased by the National Park service in 2005. Next we have hr 4135, offered by congress in homes of d. C. , which will congressman holmes of d. C. That has been the source of controversy since before it was erected in 1901. Recently, the statue was torn down from its pedestal and set ablaze. We have hr 755 zero, offered by congressman mcewan of virginia which would require a study to monuments located on federal lands. I commend the authors of the legislation before us today. The legislative process which will provide a variety of diverse opinions through elected representation, is the appropriate avenue to make the decisions about which statues should be on public property. I believe this hearing can serve as an opportunity to hear a variety of views. I am particularly interested to learn the underlying principles that determine what should or should not be put on public property. I hope we all agree that vandalism is never the answer, especially when there is a legal route to change. Highprofilen some vandalism of confederate statues and memorials. Other acts of vandalism have targeted more broadly supported statues, such as unknown vandals in new york or down a statue of the abolitionist icon frederick douglass. Other vandals tore down a statue of Hans Christian and decapitated it. He fought for the union during the civil war and the first opponent of slavery and early member of the free soil party. Memorial of George Washington and baltimore was graffiti with paint. In san francisco, protesters defaced and toppled a statue of former president grand, who led the union army during the civil war. Replacing our country Legal Framework with mob rule is a threat to our representative democracy. We are lucky to live in a country where it is possible to petition our leaders and the dany we no longer have that right, america will see the day we no longer have that right, america will cease. No nation has done more to defend principles of liberty and freedom. Our Founding Fathers understood that our nation was imperfect, from its inception in the preamble to the constitution states, in order to form a more Perfect Union, we remain an imPerfect Union today. The american experiment in representation democracy will be a work in progress. Our Founding Fathers were not perfect people. None of us are. Despite their flaws, we should continue to honor them for the monumental feat they undertook to successfully fight for our freedom and then set up a system to sustain that freedom. We should be able to discuss historic figures and admirable traits as well as the less admirable traits. I believe that 100 years from now, our great grandchildren will look back at us with this appointment for some of our actions that may seem or feel acceptable today despite earnestly trying our best. History has shown that judgment uses a different paradigm from many years down the road. I hope we in congress can Work Together to elevate our Public Discourse and have nuanced and thoughtful debate on these important topics. The best part of my job as a member of congress, and i wish i could give to american every day as service, is learning from diverse perspectives from across the country. Despite my best efforts, this year, just a 59 years old, i am now 60. White, gray, and injured, and will die from utah, coming an old guy from utah. I am excited and i need this opportunity to learn and listen, and i hope these conversations today can unite us in a way that will bring us back home together. Therefore, one of my primary goals of this hearing is to understand what my colleagues on both sides of the aisle feel should be an underlying framework determining if a statue should be should remain or be removed. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. I yield back the balance of my time. Thank you so much, Ranking Member curtis. I would like to turn our first panel and welcome members of congress who wish to testify on the bills they have sponsored. Let me remind the witnesses that under our Committee Rules, they must limit their statements to five minutes but that their entire statement will appear in the record. When you begin the timer, we will start. When it turns orange, you have one minute remaining. It is read when your time is expired. They mayrid view so pin the timer on their screen after the testimony is complete. Please remember to meet yourselves to avoid any inadvertent background noise. We will also allow the entire panel to testify before questioning the witnesses. Thechair now recognizes gentleman from maryland, mr. Brown, for five minutes. Clock, can i just asked, i know each committee is slightly different. Is it proper in this committee that when members or witnesses present and turn that presentation only, we can remove our face masks . Ok. Thank you. Thank you, chairwoman. I want to thank also the chairman for having me here today and for including hr 970, the Robert E Lee Statue removal act as part of todays legislative hearing. I want to thank my colleagues for their work on this issue. We are all incredibly proud of our National Parks and public lands. They preserve the Natural Landscapes and represent the tapestry of our National History and that history can be painful. Yet we are reminded that we have not had an honest accounting of that history. For too long, we have been blind to the way past injustices continues to shape the present. The question before us today is straightforward. Do confederate flags and monuments have any place in our National Parks . To answer this question, i simply ask myself what is statues and symbols commemorated. The glorification of the confederacy, its traitorous leaders, their cause of slavery and open rebellion against the United States of america. In my mind, there is only one side and the civil war we should be honoring, the united dates, and all those americans in the north and south who fought against those who tried to divide our country and perpetuate a system of systemic oppression and racial subjugation, and therefore, it is time for these monuments to come down. The statues and monuments were built in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by apologists, segregationists, and opponents of civil rights. They cashed confederate soldiers as heroes fighting for a supposed lost cause and celebrated their traitorous leaders. In the heyday of monument building, a period that began in 1890, and spanned 21920, was also a time of extreme racial violence, violence we saw again during the 1960s and 1970s when white southerners pushed back against what little progress had been made by black americans. , men,uments went up women, and children were being lynched. It served as a reminder that White Supremacists these monuments became beacons of White Supremacy and symbols of an effort to intimidate black americans into seeing themselves as inferior and less than. These monuments do nothing to teach us of the dark lessons of our history but are the very center of the white supremacist, racist imagination p my bill would remove one of many such works from federal land. This statue of robert e lee on the battlefield, the place where more americans died in a single day was commissioned with the express intent of honoring the in 2003. Cy and delta 100 38 years after the end of the civil war. The 24 foot statue of lee is not historically accurate and despite an interruption stating otherwise, honors a man who fought to preserve the institution of slavery. There is no reason why any of our nations public spaces should be defiled by monuments to those who betray their country, and as a nation, we can decide between those figures and causes who deserve to be honored and those who do not. Public land should not be home to symbols of hate and bigotry that memorialize leaders who fought for disunion and oppression. Statues and monuments are to celebrate the brave individuals who fought and died in our country and true american values. Not an insult to any state or region. It would simply be an acknowledgment that the cause of slavery was wrong, that the imposition of jim crow and violent resistance into civil rights and Economic Advancement for all people was wrong. While there is much more yet to be done, we have a long way to go. Today could be an important step towards truly transforming this country for the better and again taking a step towards forming a more Perfect Union. For those who are concerned that by removing the statues, we will erase history and somehow be destined to relive that history, ice and please confederate soldiers and the confederacy itself will continue to be written about and studied as a part of the dark history of our nation. There will be appropriate settings perhaps like museums or libraries where physical objects will be found that remind us of slavery. Orts to defend we need not honor this with statues and monuments in public spaces such as National Parks. Even robert ely opposed the construction of monuments commemorating the vanquished robert e lee opposed the construction of monuments commemorating the confederacy. He said i think it wise and moreover not to keep open the source of war but to follow the war but who commit to oblivion the feelings engendered. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you, mr. Brown. The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from the district of columbia, miss norton. Chair. K you, madam i think your fellow Committee Leaders and fellow panelists. Thank you for allowing me to testify on my bill to permanently remove the statue of the confederate general, albert pike, from federal land. Near Judiciary Square in the nations capital. Was authorized not by the district of columbia but by congress in 1898 when the district had no home rule. That is to say, selfgoverning authority. It was constructed using both federal and private funds. The freemasons, of which pike was a member and donated the money were much of it, needed to build and install the statues in 1901. The freemasons themselves support the statues removal. They say given its decisive nature divisive nature, it is time for her to go. Although the statue was taken down during a demonstration, President Trump reportedly has called for the statue to be put back up. Should bethe statues placed in museums as valuable historical artifacts, when combined with the story of their meaning and our history. Whoas a confederate general served dishonorably and was forced to resign in disgrace. Command,und under his heat mutilated bodies of union soldiers. He was ultimately imprisoned after his fellow officers reported he had misappropriated ofds, adding to the dishonor taking up arms against the United States, he disarmed even his Confederate Military servants. He certainly has no claim to be memorialized in the nations capital. Even those who do not want confederate statues removed should have to justify awarding pike any honor, considering this history. Er reading with the meeting with the freemasons in 2017, i decided the best course of action would be to remove the statues and find a more appropriate place for them. Although my bill does not expose it lycee where the statues should be placed, i believe a museum and adding Historical Context would be the most appropriate option. The d. C. Mayor and the d. C. Council support the removal of the statue. In 2017, the d. C. Council unanimously passed a resolution calling on congress to remove the statue. Later in this hearing, we will hear testimony from dr. Smith, director of the africanAmerican Civil War museum. The 2009 for the black americans who fought for freedom as members of the United States colored groups during the civil war. These brave men fought against and general pike to end slavery and keep the United States under one flag. Madam chair, i appreciate the hearing. I strongly urge my colleagues to support this legislation. Thank you again. Thank you, miss norton. I think the members of thank the members of congress for their testimony. We will go to our second panel. Oral statements are limited to five minutes, but your entire statement will be made part of the hearing record. When you begin, the timer will start. It will turn orange when you have one minute remaining and red when your time is expired. After the witnesses have testified, the members will be given the opportunity to ask questions. The chair recognizes reverend lee,t riwright descendent of robert e lee. To chairwoman Debra Haaland and members of the subcommittee on National Parks, forests, and public lands, i am here to give testimony in regard to hr 970 and the broader conversation regarding Confederate Monuments. As with anything i do, i am acutely aware i could not do this alone without people who helped along the way. I am grateful to congressman Anthony Brown for the bill, for my counsel today from my hometown, and most important, my wife stephanie, who is at home, working, but helped copyedit my testimony. I also want to acknowledge the reality in the room and the reason i am here. Tom not the first robert lee testify before the United States congress. In 1866 during reconstruction. It is indeed another person who bears at first and surname identical to mine and whose lineage i bear as a nephew of confederate general robert e. Lee, but i have been clear that i dare not speak for my entire family or for even the general himself. As some still revere him and see no reason for this hearing let the famed, confederate soldiers to be for himself as his documented testimony before congress can be found easily in your records. And asked before congress the country if black american citizens were equally capable of acquiring knowledge as white americans, that robert lee said i do not think he is capable of acquiring knowledge as the white man is. There are some more apt than others i have known some to acquire knowledge and skill in their trade or profession. I have had servants of my own who learned to read and write very well. Lee was later asked by a senator from missouri during the same hearing if Southern States should allow the suffrage of black americans. Opinion isd, my own that at this time, they cannot vote intelligently. And that giving them the right of suffrage would open the door ismgreat deals of demagogue and lead to embarrassment sindarius ways. I raise these io in various ways it raise these to highlight the distance and descendents from what this robert lee is about to say. I fully believe, along with a host of other amazing citizens of this great country, that black lives matter, and for us to continue to celebrate a man who questioned the education, disparaged the right to vote of black life, and had previously fought for the continued enslavement of africans on the north american continent, is an affront to those now who are suffering under current oppression. That said, i want to uplift to people who ultimately shared that with me. One was janie bowman, my black natty in the south in the 1990s, who saying this sweet hour of prayer while i slept in her arms while my parents worked. Although she is not on this earth today, in the hereafter, she along with countless others experienced racism and bigotry and White Supremacy are cheering you all on. To show that the cost of following what is right might not be politically expedient. A strong woman of color named Bertha Hamilton taught me i could take my confederate symbols down and still live to tell the tale. She implored me to remove a flag and a picture i had in my room because she saw my life, my calling, as more valuable than these goals. Samehere today to say the is true for all of you. If we are honest, the answer is clear. We cannot remain complicit with these monuments. We cannot remain silent anymore. If we do so, our silence becomes agreement and endorsement to complicity. And bill it represents an statues everywhere must be removed for a more Perfect Union, which is inclusive of a better tomorrow and a better United States. I will close by saying that as much as i love the history of my anily, i am most avidly armchair president ial historian. Many president s from president kennedy, reagan, and obama have compared these United States to a shining city on a hill. All of these president s were incredible oratory and public speakers. City on a hill is a distinctly spiritual one, an area that as a pastor i know well. Michaels gospel states you are the light of the world, a city , no hill cannot be hidden one after lighting a lamp puts it under the bushel basket. Friends, we are on a hill. I call on this committee and this congress to pass this bill not because of erasing history but on the fact that the American People have a life that is no longer hidden. Thank you. Much, pastorvery lee, reverend lee. The chair recognizes the honorable mitch landry, former mayor of the city of new orleans. Thank you madame chairperson. The other members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to discuss the important matter of confederate symbols. I am humbled to be with the other presenters today who have been eloquent. It is indeed a pleasure to be with you this morning. The chairperson said my name is mitch landry. I am the president and founder of e pluribus unum, appropriately named after our nations founding motto, out of many we are one. Our goal is to advance racial and Economic Equity across america. I served as the mayor of the city of new orleans from 2010 to 2018. I have the joy of being in the house of representatives on the state level for 16 years. As many of you know, as mayor of new orleans, i removed four confederate patches from public land with a process that started in 2015 and ended in may of 2017 with the removal of a robert e. Lee statue from the citys most prominent circle. That process helps reintroduce historical facts and a more proper telling of the history of how and why many of these statues and monuments were put up in the first place. The historical record is now clear. Statues of confederate leaders were erected not just to honor these men but as part of a movement which has now become known as the lost cause. This lost cause had one goal, through monuments and other means, to rewrite history, to hide the truth, which is that the confederacy was on the wrong side of humanity. It sought to continue to oppress black americans and black lives. James w loved her, retired professor and the author of lies across america, what our Historic Sites get wrong, put it distinctly in a Washington Post oped. He quotes, the better its won the confederates won with pennews and the notnoose what they could win on the battlefield. According to the work of the southern poverty law center, there are 700 confederate memorial monuments and statues erected well after the civil war. Over 1000 streets, buildings, and other markets named after confederate leaders. According to their research, two distinct periods saw a significant rise in the dedication of monuments and other symbols. It depended around 1900. States were enacting jim crow laws to disenfranchise newly freed africanamericans and to resegregate society. Well into thet 1920s, which saw a dramatic resurgence of the ku klux klan. The second spike began in the early 1950s and lasted through the 1960s as the Civil Rights Movement led to a backlash amongst segregationists. These two periods coincided with the 50th and 100 anniversaries of the civil war. Summary, the south lost the war and a group of people got together and decided they would adorn the country with monuments that revered those who fought on behalf of a cause that was lost, which they wanted to make seem noble. It was a Propaganda Campaign of epic proportions. Just statues are not innocent remembrances of a benign history. These monuments purposefully alebrate and perpetuate sanitized confederacy, ignoring the death, enslavement, and terror they stood for. The truth is, they were fighting for the right to own and sell black human beings. History cannot be changed. It cannot be moved like a statue. What is done is done. The civil war is over and the confederacy lost, and we are all the better for it. In the 20th year of the 21st century, we should not debate whether the United States of america should revere the confederacy. It is selfevident that these men did not fight for the United States of america. They fought to destroy it. They may have been warriors, but they certainly would not were not patriots ultimately, as a country, we must grapple with the simple notion that there is a difference between remembrance of history and reverence of it. To literally put the confederacy on a pedestal is an inaccurate recitation of our past, and affront to our present, and a bad prescription for our future. It ensures our fellow brothers and sisters will still continue. Said, adent w bush great nation does not hide its history. It faces its flaws and it corrects them. Members, you now have the opportunity to do your part to protect this. This is an important but small first step. Lets close with a plea to our collective humanity. I noted in a speech upon removing the monument that a friend had asked me to consider these monuments from the perspective of an africanamerican mother or father trying to explain to their fifth grade daughter who robert e. Lee is and why he is revered with this statute. Can any of you look into this childs eyes and convince her that robert e. Lee is meant to encourage her . Do you think she will feel inspired and hopeful . Do these monuments help foresee a future with limitless potential . We all know the answers to these very simple questions. When you look into this childs eyes, is the moment when the searing truth comes into focus. This is the moment when we know what is right and what we must do. We cannot continue to walk away from this truth. We must remove these symbols that dirty the soil of our beloved country. Once that is done, we can better confront the racist systems that have divided us by design from the beginning of our beloved country for generations so we can get closer to being the more Perfect Union that we all aspire to be. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, mary mayor. Smith. Gnize dr. Thank you very much, madam chair. My name is smith. Years, 16 years, i was a councilmember of the district of columbia. Hrave come today to support 4135. The memory and honor of albert pike. I came today to support this bill because i think monuments that occupy a public space should be restricted. Values such as freedom, justice, and unity. Monument ory, a it in a public place is incumbent upon us to take the statues down and move them to some more appropriate location. Pike supported the confederate one slave and one free. Pike was an officer in the Confederate Army and slaughtered thousands of soldiers, left on the battlefields of the civil war in places such as gettysburg, nashville. Amendmentd the 13th to abolish slavery, the 14th amendment that made africanamericans citizens, and gave blacks the right to vote. He argued that the white race and that race alone shall govern this country. The confederacy on the battlefield of the civil war establishing the ku klux klan. It was a terrorist organization. In places such as tulsa, oklahoma. , roads,e many monuments and highways names for traders. Robert e. Lee and albert pike. To blacks and there are white officers who remain loyal to the union army, and helped Abraham Lincoln maintain his dream of one nation under god. Ago, weew days celebrated the 22nd under roastery of the established anniversary of the establishment of the africanamerican museum in washington, d. C. 1998 was chosen as the inauguration date for the memorial because it was also the anniversary of the battle of fort wagoner, about which the movie glory was made. You remember glory . Of the u. S. E names colored troops who joined president lincoln in the civil war to fight for freedom and unity. The monument was built on several lands with private funds and was authorized by a deal introduced by a congressman who is a friend of mine congresswoman who is a friend of mine from the Civil Rights Movement back in the day. Itwas across the street will triple its size. Feature twobit will sources related to first Lady Michelle obama, whose names are listed on the Memorial Wall of honor. We will also we also commissioned a six foot tall statue to the memory of president Abraham Lincoln, which freezes lincoln in a moment of history where he is signing the emancipation proclamation. Paragraph eight of that proclamation this is to the union army. That is the Ranking Member from named watts man from utah. We required the Lincoln Statue. We have acquired the Lincoln Statue already. Installation later this year. It is available for public viewing. Appointment only. I rise to support this bill. Let me say in the name of our friend, john lewis, whose name should be spoken in this chamber at least one time, we know at one point in our lives, all of us will this is something that was left undone, for john lewis and other people he stood for. Thank you very much. May god continue to bless all of you and bless america. Thank you so much. The chair now recognizes dr. Joseph lecompte. Director of the center for american studies at the heritage foundation. Thank you, madam chair, and Ranking Member curtis, for inviting me to participate in todays hearing. I think what is happening here in this room is how we in our local communities should approach the debate over americas monuments, through peaceful, democratic processes. The sins of slavery and racism have left some deep scars on our nation, as they have in many other nations throughout history. In the protests we have witnessed around the country, there are no doubt many people involved whose intentions are good, whose aim, in the words of Abraham Lincoln, is to bind up the nations wounds. That is a noble goal. There is nothing noble about the unlawful assaults on our historic monuments, nothing admirable about violent mobs taking oversea streets, destroying businesses, and terrorizing civilian populations. This is not the way to bind up the nations wounds. There are forces in this country , in the mob mentality in our streets and the media and the academy, that seek to erase, to distort, and to pervert our history. They want to manipulate the past so they can bring about a future in line with their radical political vision, and every day, we are seeing more clearly what that vision looks like on the ground. It represents not only a breakdown of law and order, it is that. It is also an assault on the ideals and the institutions that have sustained our democracy and our civilization over the centuries. It is the rush of the mob over rational, democratic debates. However can we explain the attacks on statues of Christopher Columbus, George Washington, fred published, the emancipation statue just down the street in linkin park . My job as an historian is to understand the past, the good, the bad, and the ugly to the mob, virtually everything in our past is ugly. The product of oppression and racism. To them, virtually all of our heroes were villains at all of our institutions were simply a social construction to protect the people in power. The problem with this outlook is not only is it cynical and conspiratorial, but that it cuts us off from our cultural inheritance. The cancel culture in its rage, it robs us of what lincoln called the mystic chords of memory. Theres a phrase. The mystic chords of memory. That keeps us from learning about the tragedies and the triumphs of our civilization, our remarkable achievements and bring about a more just and democratic society. Now, mob mentality prevents us from developing the quality of character we most desperately need, gratitude. Latitude. Gratitude. There is a lot to be thankful for woman we consider the history of the United States in its fullness. As somebody who has studied western civilization, i can tell you that when the united dates emerged on the world stage, we introduced like no one had ever qualityed, a and government by consent of the governed. No nation has done more to advance these democratic ideas both at home and abroad. That is a profound part of our history, and we need to remember it. The story of our nation, our civilization, will continue to reveal itself as a tale of waredy and triumph, of and peacemaking, of slavery and freedom, of moral depravity and moral beauty. The mob mentality sees only one thing. It does not see that shining city on a hill. It sees a dark kingdom of mordor. How do we bind up the nations wounds . We can begin by remembering, by remembering, with honesty and integrity, our past. The american declaration of independence, for the first time in history, proclaimed that a nation was coming into existence as the sworn enemy of human slavery, the enemy of human slavery. The American Revolution put the institution of slavery on notice all over the world. Its days would be numbered. And no other Political Revolution in the history of mankind ever made such a claim. And may be no civil rights leader understood this fact better than the reverend dr. Martin luther king jr. Let me review a few lines from his letter from birmingham jail. One day, the south will know that when these disinherited children of god sat down at lunch counters, they were in reality standing up for what is best in the american dream, and for the most sacred values in our judeochristian heritage. His words, not mine. Heritage,christian bringing our nation back to those great wells of democracy, dug deep by the Founding Fathers in their formulation of the constitution and the declaration of independence. You have to admire a man who endured what dr. King endured and yet refused to become embittered and cynical about americas past and what she stood for. Dr. King refused to join the mob. The goal of america is freedom, he said. The goal of americas freedom. In the history of the world, friends, that is quite a story. A story with remembering and worth defending. Thanks for listening. The chair now recognizes miss christy coleman, public historian. [no audio] to members of the House Committee on natural resources, thank you for the opportunity to 7550 to you today about hr at the request of congressman mceachin. I am deeply honored for the opportunity. I have to start by saying a Pew Research Study found 48 percent of survey respondents believe that the cause of the American Civil War was states rights, compared to only 38 who noted slavery as its root cause. Public and academic historians have long attested that the states rights argument was and is deeply intertwined with slavery and the protection of it as evidenced from a plethora of primary sources. From the time of the 20th century, curriculum were set by states and localities, but for children raised in the south, like myself, the united daughters of the confederacy actually said what our learning should be. They issued detailed guidelines for the rejection of any text or book that, among other things, constant the confederate soldier calls the confederate soldier a traitor or speaks of the slaveholder of the south as cruel or unjust to his slaves. Clearly a civil war monuments and markers were placed in the immediate aftermath of the war to honor the dead. The federal government oversaw inurial of 300,000 plus dead 73 National Cemeteries established for that purpose. The largest federal cemetery was established at arlington, the plantation home of robert e. Lee. When federal troops seized the property, they would eventually designated a cemetery in 1864 with the intent to humiliate lee. They wanted arlington to serve as a permanent reminder of the carnage wrought upon the nation by lees decision to wage war against the nation he swore an oath to defend and protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic. They perceivedt as the unions disregard for their dead, memorial societies led by middle to upper class white women organized to rectify the situation. They initially built modest monuments and cemeteries to serve as reminders for the sacrifices of their dead, like their counterparts in the north. But the scale would grow considerably after reconstruction, 1877. The construction of statues, monuments, and other symbols grew on public land after the 1896 plessy b ferguson, and through the resurgence of the ku klux klan through 1915. The next significant building occurred between the 1940s and the 1960s, coinciding with Southern Resistance to the u. S. Supreme courts brown be bored v boardd for brown decision. We also cannot dismiss the fact that the lost cause narrative gave greater validation even through world war ii, when the United States War Department named military bases for confederates. The federal government positioned these renamings, the naming of these bases as a gesture of reconciliation. Unfortunately, it had the effect of legitimizing a rebellion against the United States. To be clear, the rejection of this reframing is not a new phenomenon. Public figures and scholars at the time these were being built railed against them. In fact, among the earliest was eloquently spoken about in 1877 by frederick douglass. He said, we must not be asked to say the south was right in the rebellion or that the north was wrong. We must not be asked to put difference between those who fought for the union and those who fought against it or between loyalty and treason. The 1950sheavals of and 60s also challenged this status quo interpretation of the American Civil War and its enduring legacies and disenfranchisement of millions africanamericans religious and , other ethnic minorities that flag had long been and continues to be associated with violence inflicted upon them and their allies. Throughout the current discussion, one refrain is often repeated, we should not erase history by removing these items from the public landscape. The fact is history was already erased when these items were erected. Sequently, how americans how the American Civil War is remembered and interpreted for the entire nation has been skewed. With that said, i do say this, when asked what should we do in inking about monuments moving forward . Lets be clear, we should absolutely have monuments that reflect our shared values of , but weand equality cant do that if we are continuing to think that what we have on our current landscape represents that. Thank you for allowing me time to speak today. Chairwoman haaland thank you very much, ms. Coleman. Thank you for the vulnerable testimony. Rules impose a fiveminute limit on questions. The chair will now recognize members for questions. I will start with my colleague, mr. Huffman. Mr. Huffman, you have five minutes. Rep. Huffman . Thank you, madam chair, for holding this important hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for some very powerful testimony. I have long advocated for the removal of confederate symbols on our federal lands in 2015 and 2016 when i first offered amendment to stop the display on confederate battle flags on cemeteries managed by the National Park service. It was an uphill battle to even get it for consideration. It divided the republican conference so much that they shut down the appropriations process rather than put it to a vote. We are in a new era today hopefully with john lewiss life. Nd legacy fresh in our minds we have seen widespread public support for the removal of confederate statues. Even the pentagon seems to be getting a little bit woke on these subjects. So i think it is important that we fully investigate all aspects of our government, and how, in the name of this country, we are using confederate symbols including in the u. S. Capital, and public lands. These bills we are discussing today will continue the momentum for change, and i am pleased to be part of that. These memorials and statues speak to who we as a nation used to be. What we choose to do with them now six to who we are today. Antifa the great testimony. If i could start with reverend such a powerful messenger. Thank you for doing this. You sure that we dont have to honor dark aspects of our heritage by walking in the same footsteps of our ancestors who got it wrong. That is a great contribution to this moment. Brieflysk you, can you explain why you felt so us you felt so compelled to speak out about it wasssues rev. Lee one of those things that involved redemption and reconciliation. This is not about me. I am a white dude. I can walk by these statues and cannot feel anything but and that is dangerous in this current time it that i as a person can walk by statues and not feel anything, and another member of my community can walk by the statute and to experience this hatred and violence and oppression. ,ep. Huffman mayor landrieu you gave a speech when you removed the last of new orlean Confederate Monuments. These statuest were intended to literally put the confederacy on a pedestal in our most prominent places of honor and that is an inaccurate representation of our past, an affront to our present in a bad prescription for our future. These explain what you meant when he said confederate statues are an inaccurate recitation of our past . Mr. Landrieu some point of that historians articulated in a position of these monuments is that somehow we were erasing history, when in reality, those monuments on the reflected a and in that. Recitation of only four years. New orleans was founded in 1718. Have a long history. We just celebrated our 300 anniversary the other day. We only had a recitation of our past but four years of it. There were no public symbols of all the other people that helped make a new orleans the great multicultural city that she has become, so in that essence come by took a piece of property and took all of our history and tried to communicate to people that that was the history of who we were. I think that his historical malfeasance. People say that we should add to what we have. If that is true, why has that never been done, and why are our most prominent places cap for people who tried to destroy america . Those monuments are not seem to be a reflection of what new who havever was or ever wanted to be, which is why the people of new orleans voted to allow me to use my powers to have them condemned. Rep. Huffman thank you, mr. Mayor. Thank you to our witnesses into chairwoman haaland for this discussion. I yield back. Chairwoman haaland the chair recognizes Ranking Member curtis. Rep. Curtis thank you, madam chair. I would like to thank our witnesses. I would like to preface my questions with, i hope nobody will interpret from my line of questioning that i oppose the bills today, i support what is happening and i think these are important conversations we are having. But i do continually ask in my mind what our standard is. How do we know when we have crossed that standard and how do we not know . When this hearing came up, i remember clearly a subcommittee meeting of this subcommittee where we were at. Idering a mural park i pointed out that some of the murals we were talking about protecting featured murals of fidel castro. Asked did this concern them. The response was, within the narrative of the National Parks, we tell stories and demonstrate a lot of images and narratives. Her. Educational interpretation, we are able to provide our viewers to better understand why those statues exist and enable them to develop their own thoughts as to the particular item they are looking at. Ask of the majority of the witnesses the same question and ask them to help me understand. She said there was little need for concern because there are more than 100 murals in the park, that there were only dealt with featuring controversial people get used that same model to be consistent. A quick Google Search because there are 116 statues in washington, d. C. And thousands in the National Park system. The question i bring before the committee today is, what is our standard so we will know it when we see it . When we have crossed the line of oft statue should thus all when a statue should be removed and when it shouldnt . How much of an individuals life, at what level does it disqualify them to be honored for accomplishments they may have . Doctor, if you could help me on that, because i think the committee will be here again looking at statues of other and they may not be at the high level are looking at today. I am curious from your perspective how you would answer that question. Leconte thank you. It is a great question. Is themy real concerns level of civic illiteracy. The ignorance of so many young people not even knowing what the civil war was about, same could be said for the First World War and second lot more having taught students in a new york city for a decade, it is appalling the amnesia we have. On one level you could say that these monuments could be a teaching moment. How you decide which one should be publicly displayed. In terms of monuments that clearly are directing our hearts and minds to honoring an individual, that is one thing. What individuals we want to honor in our public and civil life . Welcome of those defending democratic principles we all agree to freedom, equality. If that individual was a defender of those principles, then we want to honor that person. If a person is not a defender of those principles, i dont know if the answer is to take them out of the public square, but i think the answer is to give us the Historical Context of that person and use it as a teaching moment. The level of ignorance come civic ignorance about our own history is appalling. What i have increasingly worried , if an ordinary young person cannot name the three branches of government, we are Hearing Services like that, you are more susceptible to propaganda, and i dont want to see that happen in this country. I think we are running the risk of that. So, contention is the monuments rather than removing them. Teach the history and teach it honestly, with integrity. Rep. Curtis that seems to be the answer that i was given at the time by the majority and witnesses to i have sympathy with me or point made today with these statues that they are very offensive. In my opening remarks, i alluded to this. I grew up as a white male in utah in the 60s and 70s. I am part of that ignorance of the civil war, and this has been very educational for me. Sincere heartth a to understand these issues and a welcome members on the committee on both sides to have thoughtful dialogue about this. Sometimes it is a dangerous dialogue. You dont feel like you can even ask questions. So i appeal to all members of the committee to keep having these conversations that allow us to ask these questions in a way without seeming like we are problematic or even racist. Madame chair, i yield my time to chairwoman haaland thank you, Ranking Member curtiss. The chair recognizes mrs. Ll. Ge rep. Dingell thank you, madam chair and thank you everybody for being here today. And in convening an important hearing to understand how to honor our nations heritage on American Public land. Over 1700 confederate symbols land currently. We need to do all accounting of our nations history to address these info monuments and promote inclusive imagery that represents all americans. Our current moment has placed of confederatey imagery. Dozens of these statues have already been removed legally in the last few weeks following George Floyds murder in may. And following bipartisan action by the Mississippi State legislator and governor, the state has removed its confederate symbol from the state flag in favor of any flag to promote unity rather than division. So it is my hope that this committee and this congress uses this moment in time in history to promote symbols that bring us together as americans rather than divide us through the use of confederate imagery. So, let me start with one of my favorite people, mayor landrieu. It is wonderful to see you. Someday i will see you outofthebox. You mentioned in your testimony that confederate symbols, including the ones mentioned in the legislation today were constructed in the 20th century. Purpose of building these Confederate Monument long after the civil war . Mr. Landrieu as professor dr. Loconte told us a few minutes ago, so many people are ignorant of our history. Many people think they were put up immediately after the civil war, when in fact they began to be erected in the 1990s, and they only stopped being erected just a few years ago. They were part of an effort to rewrite history by something called the lost cause, an effort to make the cause of the civil war noble. It was really a Propaganda Campaign started generally by the daughters of the confederacy that were intended to rewrite history, as one of the other witnesses said, to rewrite history books. What the partrn of our history was about. As a consequence, they were put all over the place. I cant think of another country that has people who fought the country in places of reverence. As the professor said, there is a difference between remembrance we should never forget the civil war, forget the people who fought on behalf of the civil war or why they did it. But to put them in places of reverence, in primary places in major cities and nations capitals, it is antithetical to ever sense of not only decency but historical perspective. You can correct those errors without forgetting about the past. We wanted to remember it for the right reasons so we dont repeat it, not revere it so that we do it again. Rep. Dingell when you were mayor of new orleans, you removed for statues in permanent places across the city. Looking back on the decision you made, how has removal of these statues helped the city and its residents more honestly record with the past . Mr. Landrieu the reason we did it is we were looking forward, getting ready to celebrate our 300 anniversary. Had been city destroyed by katrina, we did not want to put it back like it was. We wanted to build the city we should have been had we gotten it right the first time. Honest, deephat dive on who we were, what we had historically been and who we wanted to become a we came to a reckoning that we were not living by the words, we were holding ourselves up to be a part of the american landscape, become trying to to a more Perfect Union. The monuments stood out like a thumb and presented themselves as something that had to be moved if you only as to become the city she could be, where diversity is a strength, not a weakness. We believe we represent this nations motto out of many, come wene. To do that had many public hearings. The third branch of government was brought in through the courts, we went through seven court hearings, 13 separate judges, and appeals to the legislature and the federal government, and agonizing andess, a deliberative peaceful process. As a consequence, the people of the city have a much deeper understanding of who we are and where we want to go. We would commend it to the country as a process we should use to think through what to do next. Rep. Dingell thank you. I am out of time, but that is a lesson the country could take. Chairwoman haaland thank you, representative dingell. It has come to my attention that members will have to go vote on the floor. I was hoping we could avoid that that i am running out of time here. I apologize for the inconvenience. The subcommittee stands in a recess subject to the call of the chair. We will reconvene as soon as we get back from voting. [bangs gavel] pop [chatter] [bangs gavel] thiswoman haaland calling subcommittee hearing back to order. The chair will recognize mr. Horse forward for five minutes. Horseford for five minutes. Rep. Horsford thank you, madam chairwoman, and thank you for holding this hearing today. This has been a very difficult week for all of us. As we mourn the loss of congressman john lewis of georgia, a hero to some any of the, a champion for equality, we must, too remember the sacrifice and legacy he and Many Americans made in fighting for our rights and freedom. When discussing the removal of Confederate Monuments, congressman lewis described these efforts as the beginning of the movement that would help us move toward the realization that we are one people, one nation, and we have to be. Ensitive to our own history just this week, we in the house of representatives are honoring this movement in the nations capitol by voting on historic legislation that will remove the defenders of the horrific system of slavery, segregation, and racism from the u. S. Capitol building. I am proud of the work of our chair and all of our colleagues are doing to demonstrate that our public lands and parks belong to all americans. This is an opportunity to shine a light on stories of great individuals who have not stood for hate or opera russian or orinst our union come oppression or against our union, but rather those who reflect our ideas and those whose valuable contributions to build the fabric of our nation. Dr. Coleman, thank you for being here and for the important work you are doing to inform us of our history. For those who may not understand these symbols or the impact they have, can you please share with us some stories or experiences that you have heard working on this issue . Tot do these statues mean americans, particularly black americans, when they are held in places of honor . Dr. Coleman the simple answer is, and i have been working on this issue for a number of years, part of my background was serving as ceo of the American War Museum in richmond, virginia where these conversations have been taking place in earnest since 2009 when we began preparing for the centennial of the American Civil War. Ground zero,y far the place where the lost cause was born and fed, the place where we saw the nations first and largest monument built to robert e. Lee that went up in specifically to stand taller than George Washington statue which is on the commonwealth of virginia capitol grounds. To africanamericans, this has a front from day one. It is more often than not the symbol of a simple question, and that question is, where would you like the world to place the monument of the person who kidnapped your children, your ancestors, killed them . Where would be the appropriate place . How do you think this particular better going to help us understand our history . Especially when placed in such veneration . I also acknowledge having worked at the American Civil War museum, that there are those individuals who have felt that these monuments and the people to whom, that they represent, are actually displays of other types of values home, standing for ones etc. Frankly, all of that is a part narrative thatse was created. So as a museum executive sorry, thank you. Rep. Horsford mayor landrieu, thank you for your testimony and for your continued work to remove inappropriate memorials to the confederacy across the United States. For Many Americans can let this debate is about our history. They see the removal of these statues as a radical act to remove our history. If you have the opportunity to speak to someone holding those views on those issues, what would you say to them . I would say, who we choose to remember or revere is as important as who we have forgotten, and our history is much deeper and much broader and much richer than the very narrow history they chose to remember, and there are lots of us in this country, as the truth stands a cross time, if we want to be fully american, we ought to remember all our history. Revere in is very different from remembering. Should always remember so we never repeat. Reverence is famed for those who represent the best values that america has to offer reverence is left for those who represent the best values that america has to offer. Rep. Horsford thank you. I yield back. Chairwoman haaland the chair. Ecognizes mr. Norton ms. Holmes norton. Rep. Norton . Thank you, madam chair. I really want to thank you for this hearing. I hope that you can hear me. For dr. Smith,on but i also want to make sure i understood dr. Locontes testimony. With himly agree that the takedown by mobs or is a mostmonuments inappropriate way to do it. Do i understand, dr. Loconte commit but you agree they should be taken down and perhaps put in museums . Dr. Loconte thank you for that question. Historian, i am not a policy guide. My great concern is that we understand the context of these things come about we use the money meant a teaching moment, not elevate people who we can agree were on the wrong side of history. The wrong side of these important questions. We dont want to valorize that. I will leave it to others to decide what is the best way to teach history with integrity. Rep. Norton i appreciate it. Even putting them in a museum would not be sufficient unless there was, around those monuments, the story of what they stood for, what the history and objective story for that matter. Dr. Smith, thank you for being here as well. You may know that the department of the interior has indicated that the department opposes efforts to remove confederate symbols from public spaces. I want to read to you how they frame it. Alone, its not ours belongs to the generations of the past, the present, the future, to serve as a collective national memory. What the sake think of the departments position . Hard to discuss this without thinking about it as a black person, and africanamerican born in to college in a 1959 and was part of the Civil Rights Movement. So every time i have seen it is monuments, every time i drive down robert e. Lee highway, i feel like the public has done me an injustice. It is hard for me to talk about it without looking at it that way. Although it sounds like they dont care what we think, they dont care what africanamericans think, they dont care that our blood boils when we pass these things. What we are seeing now with the , they areising starting to take matters into their own hands. That means there is some urgency about what we are doing now. [indiscernible] norton i appreciate it that. Let department frames its dustition more delicately, the department frames its position more delicately. The president says he wants those taken down to be put back. There is a simple way to do from a way to keep forgetting. To forget would be an atrocity. This is history that very much in it to be remembered. Let question before us is how the remembrance should take place. Thank you, again, madam chair, for this hearing and allowing me to ask my questions. I yield back. Chairwoman haaland thank you, miss norton. The chair recognizes mr. Brown for five minutes. Rep. Brown mayor landrieu, i want to thank you for testifying today and for your work in this area. I remember your eloquent speech in 2018. He also stated in that speech, while some have driven by these monuments everyday and either revered their beauty and ,ere able to see them in awe many are painfully aware of the people shadows of their presence cast, not only literally but figuratively, and he received a message that the confederacy and the cult of the lost cause intended to deliver. Many received the message that the confederacy and the cold of the most cause intended to deliver. You are a mayor of a southern testifiedyou may have to this, but i apologize because many members are having to leave at different times to vote. I apologize if the question is redundant, that why was it important for you to remove these statues even in the face of National Backlash and criticism . Mr. Landrieu first of all, the city of new orleans is preparing anniversary and to do that, you start to take stock of your history, who you are. You think about where you have been and where you are going and you ask yourself if you have been living with integrity. These monuments were right smack in the middle of the city in its most prominent places that would to the people who came there that that is what the believe. D they only represented four years of our history, and it was an inaccurate representation. The places where the statue was was actually where the union troops left so if we wanted to reflect the history and orleans, thosew monuments were a historical lie. It was important if we believed that out of many we were one, that we at our public spaces and revered those values that made us who we were. Sorestuck out like a thumb, so it was important not only to remove the monuments, but to think about the system going forward. I would recommend to do a deep dive about how we make institutional changes to make america available for everybody. Rep. Brown thank you. Reverend lee, thank you for your appearance today. Can you elaborate on the point themade in your oped in Washington Post, where you stated that many of my fellow southerners are afraid that if we remove the monuments, we will forget robert e lee and his heritage. What is the certain understanding and its loss to which you refer . Rev. Lee i think many of my fellow southerners especially have this mentality that we have always had a way and it has always been. You go back where i live, if you ask them how to cook that way, it has always been that way. How you raise children, it has always been that way. Just to say that we have a way of doing things. Unfortunately, in the genesis of that way of doing things, we realized that white people could could aantage, president ial shortages in and White Supremacy to black people. For many, we think they are past that, but we still take advantage of those systems that oppress cause it has a was been that way. We have to chart a new course, a new vision. A new way of doing something together. For some people, that is downright scary. Rep. Brown thank you. Dr. Loconte, i am so pleased with your response to my colleague from the district of columbia because i was concerned with your testimony, you included in the middle and you seem to have finished with an , whichs on mob rule is so far from the deliberative process we are engaged in here in congress. I do agree with you that we need to value and respect and honor the values of freedom and fairness. As anestion for you is, historian, is it appropriate for congress to take up the insideration of this issue, many cases, statues and monuments erected in previous generations on different pretenses . Is it appropriate for this body that reflects the will of the people to deliberate on whether we should remove them or not . [inaudible] dr. Loconte sorry about that. The democratic process is what i am excited about that is happening in this room, whether at a federal level or local level, what i am concerned about as an historian, mob rule is a dangerous thing and i dont think we should take it lightly. It doesnt take many bad actors to turn the city into chaos and bring a nation down. I have been living in washington, d. C. The last 20 years, i have never seen so many that should let me just reclaim my time. I dont think anyone in this room is not concerned with mob rule. Most of us in this room distinguish that from peaceful protest, but we understand there were perhaps some unlawful takedowns of statues. That is not my question. My question is, this deliberative process that may result in the removal of statues , is that legitimate for no . Ress to do, yes or dr. Loconte it has to be done democratically. Absolutely, sir. Back. Rown i yield chairwoman haaland i will now recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Loconte, you mentioned in your testimony the statues of Christopher Columbus are being targeted by protesters, and you mentioned the statues of columbus along with George Washington. Seemingly as if those sketches should remain untouchable. I want to tell you why protesters are targeting statues of Christopher Columbus. I am a 35th generation new mexican. Christopher columbus murdered thousands of Indigenous People when he came over to this part of the world. He opened the door for europe to come and colonize this continent when millions of Indigenous People had lived here since time immemorial. They brought disease, they brought violence and oppression. And genocide. This country is founded on genocide, which, in my opinion i have a minor in history, certainly not a major which is a precursor to how they would treat the slaves when they brought africans over here to work and make people rich. So i just want to say that because i could not let this hearing go by without mentioning that. So thank you. Ms. Coleman, my question is for you. Although the bills included in todays hearing focus on the commemorative works glorifying confederate leaders who championed continued enslavement and brutalization of africanamericans, a are countless other places throughout the nation that bear the names of individuals committed th known to have atrocities. Would you say that is a larger issue that goes beyond confederate statues . Dr. Coleman yes. The simple answer is yes, i do. As you just mentioned about columbus and others, thei there is a horrific past there. I am appreciative about wanting to learn these things. What disturbs me is when people say that the removal of these objects is somehow taking away the history. We know that king george iii was king of these 13 colonies before the American Revolution. Every single statue of him was taken down by the people, not i deliberative process. Was born out of civil and social unrest sometimes turning into protest and damage , for example, the boston tea party. What becomes important for us to understand is that we have to be we look forward and as we look back on the past, to determine which values we want to set forward. We will not forget the atrocities, we cant, but we venerate when we venerate figures responsible for those atrocities, that in and of itself is an erasure. They be alone in this, but are individuals i do believe even in their imperfect selves this is about the realities that there are individuals that gave us funding language of being a better place, of having a more Perfect Union, that we can cling to even if they did not. Incumbent upons communities to make these andsions for themselves, where deliberative processes can take place if they do. But i am keenly aware that communities often disenfranchise voices. They often pick people they want to hear from, so we have to be careful of that, too. Chairwoman haaland in your opinion, what should congresss role be . How should we be thinking about this issue programmatically . The car coleman first and foremost dr. Coleman first and foremost, you have to understand what you have, and then begin the process. The battlefields are a little different because they do have figures for all sides. What is often missing from those battlefields is any representation of the 200,000plus africanamerican men who served. What is also missing is the 16 different native nations that are aligned with the United States against the confederacy. Those are missing. That is where the additive role becomes more important. Chairwoman haaland thank you so much. I yield. I would like to recognize mr. Huffman for another question. You, madamn thank chair. I want to go off my prepared materials and see if i may ask a question to the great panelists we have here today, who have worked so hard on these from thes with symbols confederacy. Baseway from the military named fort bragg on the other side of the country, i represent a Little Community on the california coast named fort bragg. It is an interesting quirk of history for those who would look at it as some historic significance that it was named before the civil war. Connection. S no he never set foot there or ever went close to it. It inherited this name on the historic lark, and it has continued for generations. Fastforward to 2020, we are having an interesting conversation in the community of fort bragg, which is a wonderful, kind, and nonracist community grappling with the fact that it has a really bad name that does not represent who they are or who they have ever been. But a lot of folks have nostalgia and memories and other things attached to that name. So i would like to ask any of our panelists what they would say to this community i represent that is struggling in its own way in this moment that our country is in to figure out what to do about this particular anachronistic symbol that, like it or not, exults a confederate hero, Braxton Bragg . Rev. Lee we have spoken a lot about congressman john lewis. I had the opportunity to preach to him at the Ebenezer Baptist church in atlanta, the Historic Church of that Martin Luther king was pastor of. He was actually dancing to a says, he the singer is an alltime god. By divine providence, we have been given an opportunity to that most the fact all jet equal our ability to change things. We should want to change things and not be complacent through our nostalgia. That is the most dangerous thing we can do it has always been that way i have to deal with lead in church. People say, it has always been that way, we cant change it. That is a nogo. We have to have this conversation now. Rep. Huffman mayor landrieu, do you have any thoughts you would like to share . Pretend tou not to be irreverent, but i am always mindful of gods grace, he always gives us a chance for a new will and to think about who and what we are. From a process point of view, that is a local decision that should be made by the community, not the federal government, certainly not my congress. , agree with the reverend though, holding on to nostalgia is useless. Communities should think about who they are. There is consequence to living under the shadow of someone that fraud to destroy the country for the sake of preserving slavery some communities so far away from the south were named after a confederate world. It is the decision the community has to make. But if i were a member of the community, having learned what i have learned and knowing what i know now, i would prefer to change the name. Rep. Huffman appreciate that. Anyone else care to comment . Mr. Smith this is frank smith. This is an opportunity for the community to talk and we rethink and come up with a name that may better represent the values that community holds. This is an important discussion. I saw something in the Washington Post a few weeks ago saying that we need to build more monuments. I am on that side. He said we should put them up all over the country and i agree with that. Somebody needs to pay some attention to trying to get some things on the landscape that represent the most important to this country. The civil war shamed this country. It is an important time in our history and we have to find a way to talk about it that brings us more together because this is a great nation that got out of this and we ought to be able to do about it in a way that makes sense. Rep. Huffman those are great thoughts. Let them chair, thank you for indulging the additional question and thank you to the panelists. Chairwoman haaland of course. The chair will recognize mr. Mceachin for a few minutes. Mceachin thank you, madam chair. Participants, thank you for joining us. Todays hearing is personal for me. I am a proud native of richmond and a student of political history. I believe our nations monuments and statues can be unifying symbols of the historical sacrifices and contributions made by all americans, and a. Ource of shared adriatic pride unfortunately, too a source of shared, patriotic pride. Unfortunately, too many confederate memorials minimize the history of slavery and racism. Demandsmy constituents for the removal of these symbols of the country. H. R. 7550, legislation to inventory confederate commemorative works on certain federal lands, and evaluate them. [indiscernible] where they are located and to what extent they are being used appropriately. I would like to ask a few questions if she is available. I am. Rep. Mceachin thank you. Coleman, i ms. Apologize. Thank you for speaking about the importance of having a picture persist on public lands. How would you respond to the belief that monuments on public lands are fundamentally different in nature from public works placed in public spaces . Reppo coleman you are breaking up a little bit, but i think i understand what you are asking dr. Coleman you are breaking up a little bit, but i think i understand what youre asking. A huge difference about the placement of statuary at battlefield sites for example, or cemeteries, for example. The problem is when these land,s are in public i. E. , in front of courthouses, Police Department them in front of schools, in general parks. It misses them in an entirely different context and that context, i believe, is ultimately harmful. Again, whyngs i think your proposal is a good one, we have to identify where they are and how and when they were placed and then that will provide the kinds of answers that are needed to make the determination of the next steps. Mceachin what comes next,. Fter a call for removal my concern is for federally managed landscapes. Recommendations for that part of the process . Coleman like mayor landrieu, in richmond, virginia, we had the monument avenue commission, a deliberative process that lasted about 18 months, where we held public , etc. ,nd took in we had a team of scholars looking at the history behind each and every one of them, presented that information to the public and partnered with the Museums Community enrichment to better educate our community to come up with the decision, and the decision the community made was put in place. The challenge we had was that in richmond and in the state of virginia, there was a law on the books that said that these objects could not be removed. The law was made in 1904, the exact same year they disenfranchised 95 of black and half of white voters who were not of an income level. So it was not the mistake the law was made. The law was changed. Those are the things every state and every committee needs to carefully look at. Rep. Mceachin thank you, ms. Coleman. I think my time was about to run not. I will just say this, in america , we have a responsibility to not only learn from, but confront our history and to strive for a more complete telling of our history. I thank my colleagues in my constituents. Thank you, and i yield back. Chairwoman haaland thank you, mr. Mceachin. I thank the witnesses for their runnable testimony and the members for their questions. Members of the committee may have additional questions, we will ask you to respond to these in writing. And are the Committee Role 30, members must submit answers to the questions within 15 days. The hearing will be open for 10 Business Days for these responses. If there is no further business, without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. [bangs gavel] [chatter] [indistinct conversations] wednesday in the house, members consider legislation to remove confederate symbols from the capitol, removing a bust of former Supreme Court Justice Robert brooke tawney, and replacing it with a bust of the late Supreme Court justice them a thurgood marshall. Live coverage when members return for legislative business at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. Cspans washington journal everyday taking your calls live on the air on the news of the day. We discuss policy issues that impact you. Coming up wednesday morning, Pennsylvania Republican congressman, glenn thompson, a member of the educational and labor committee, will join us to discuss negotiations for the next release bill. And oregon democratic congressman will be on to talk about the federal response to the antiracism for tests in portland. Watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 eastern on wednesday morning and be sure to join the discussion with your phone calls, Text Messages and tweets. Join the discussion. Live wednesday on the cspan networks, the house returns at 9 00 a. M. For morning speeches, at 10 00 a. M. Legislative work including the bill to remove a confederate bust from the u. S. Capitol and replace it with a bust of the late Supreme Court Justice Thurgood marshall. The senate is back at 10 on cspan2 to include work on 2021 defense programs. At 9 00 a. M. On cspan three, the f. E. M. A. Administrator testifies before the Homeland Security committee on the pandemic. O the at 2 00 p. M. , the Senate Foreign Relations Committee looks at u. S. Competition with china. Cspan has unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the Supreme Court and Public Policy events. You can watch all of cspans Public Affairs programming on television, online, or listen on be part radio app, and of the National Conversation through cspans daily washington journal programs or through our social media feeds. Cspan, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you by. Secretary of state mike pompeo is in the u. K. For meetings with british officials. This was the scene as secretary pompeo arrived at 10 downing street to meet with british Prime Minister boris johnson. Later he held a joint News Conference with his british counterpart, foreign secretary dominic raab. Their remarks focused on responding to china in the wake andhe coronavirus pandemic the decision to ban huawei from their five g network in the u. K. [shouting] sec. Raab good morning all. [indiscernible] [cameras shuttering] social distance. Thank you, lets go. Thank you, gentlemen. [chatter]