Transcripts For CSPAN House Hearing On Small Business Loans COVID-19 20240712

Process and wait times for receiving loans. From the house Small Business committee, this is about two hours. I want to thank everybody for joining us. I want to know important requirements. Let me begin by standing in that test by stating that house rules will continue to apply during the proceedings. All members are reminded that they are expected to adhere to these standing rules, including decorum. With that said, the technology we are utilizing today requires us to make some small thefications to ensure that members can fully participate in these proceedings. Asing the covid period, designated by the speaker, the committee will operate in accordance with House Resolution guidancer subsequence from the rules committee in a manner that respects the rights of all members to bridges bait. To participate. Regulations require members to be visible through a video connection throughout the proceedings, so keep your cameras on. Also, if you have to participate in another proceeding, please exit this one and log back in later. In the event a member encounters technical issues that prevent them from being recognized for their questioning, i will move to the next available member of the same party and will recognize that member at the next appropriate time slot, provided they have returned to the proceeding. Should a members time be interrupted by technical issues, i will recognize at that member at the next appropriate spot for the remainder of their time, once their issues have been resolved. In the event a witness loses connectivity during testimony or questioning, i will reserve their time as we address the technical issues. I may need to provide time for the witness to reconnect. And finally, remember to remain muted until you are recognized. In accordance with the rules established under House Resolution 965, staff have been advised to mute participants only in the event of background noise. Should a member wish to be decognized, they must unmute an seek recognition at the appropriate time. For those members in the room today, we will also be following the health and safety guidelines issued, including social distancing and especially the use of masks. I urge members and staff to wear masks at all times while in the room and i thank you in advance for your commitment to a safe environment for all here. Last night, on the eve of the date the Paycheck Protection Program expires, the Senate Passed a bill to extend the program. From the inception of the program, i have clearly stated that until we know where the money is going and how our Small Businesses, which include independent contractors and sole proprietors, and minority owned firms are faring, we cannot blindly extend the program. With that said, Congress Still does not have the data it was promised, nor does the public have any information. Congress passed the heroes act, which extended the program through the end of the and leveraging our mission andd lenders, like cdf is micro lenders. Moreover, this important bill included provisions to require the administration to provide regular disclosure to congress and the public. Yesterday, secretary Steven Mnuchin stated he was working with the senate on the next steps for ppp and spoke of secondary loans. As i have said all along, i invite the senate and at administration to sit down with us to discuss extending ppp loans, and the many improvements put forth by members of this committee. We are meeting today to conduct an important hearing on sba implementation of the Economic Disaster loan program, or as some call it the program, which was activated on march 12, making it the first Economic Relief program to assist Small Businesses adversely impacted by the coronavirus pandemic. I would like to thank the associate administrator for the office of Disaster Assistance for being here to discuss the issues surrounding the implementation of this program. Mr. Rivera, i value your commitment and the hard work of your staff. And i understand the extraordinary efforts put forth to respond to this unprecedented crisis. However, we are holding this hearing today because of some very concerning issues that have hindered relief for thousands of Small Businesses. As you know, we held a hearing last month in which we heard directly from applicants about their experiences with the program. One Small Business owner discussed the negative impact of sba unilateral reduction of the maximum loan size from 2 cut moreo 150,000, a than 90 . He, like thousands of Small Business owners across the country, were drawn to the program largely due to the ability to use a loan from more than just payroll. Ofgine being in the position thinking that this program has a max of 2 million for your business needs, only to learn that loan approval at loan approval that the loan was drastically reduced. This is precisely the kind of information that needs to be conveyed to borrowers ahead of time. It makes it a fundamentally different loan product, and for those who need an amount greater than 150,000, this program was rendered irrelevant. Throughout the process, there was a lack of understanding of the challenges raised related to covid19, especially by offering a one size fits all 150,000 loan without offering an opportunity to apply for a second loan, or seek additional funding. Small businesses looking for help were he told, take it or leave it, regardless of size, and then told to have a nice day. We also heard from a Community Pharmacist in south philadelphia that applied for the loan, but was denied due to unsatisfactory Credit History. This is a lifelong entrepreneur who has struggled and is now saddled with additional burdens due to covid19. Borrowers, like the Community Pharmacist, who were denied for allegedly unsatisfactory Credit History have reported that the credit threshold for the improving loan is not clear in borrowers do not know what the limits are, leaving them feeling like the decision was arbitrary. I am sure it will be helpful to all if sba can communicate the credit minimums to Small Businesses upfront. Small also heard from businesses at that were denied because of unverifiable information, meaning that they were items that were reviewed at that caused sba to question the validity of the items. But the denial letter never did tell the information that was missing, leaving applicants with little insight as to why they were denied. Though these decisions can be appealed, that only adds to delays and expenses of struggling Business Owners. These businesses need relief and they need it now. Even more troubling is the fact that the sba has not communicated well with applicants, nor has it provided checkith reliable ways to the status of their applications. Borrowers are told that the loan is processing. The only other updates they receive are whether the loan has been approved or denied. Applicants need to know where they stand in the line, so they know how much longer they must wait before receiving financing. And given the current economic climate, if they are going to be denied they deserve to know quickly, so that they can explore other options of her capital elsewhere. Finally, there was a long period applicationsthe were limited to only agricultural Small Businesses, which is at odds with the intent of the Small Business act and is to of the sba, which assist and protect the interests of all Small Businesses. It is particularly troubling to have heard allegations that these loans were being processed before other applications e and we hopee queu to get a clear answer today. As the committee coul continues oversight, i am looking forward to hearing about how many applications are currently pending, how much more funding is necessary to meet the loan demand, and what steps sba is planning to take to ensure Small Businesses across the country receive the Economic Relief they need to survive. Already you number of Large Companies have declared big trips he cleared bankruptcy and experts say it will not be long before this wave of bankruptcies hit Small Businesses. We need to do more to help avoid this outcome. I look forward to hearing from mr. Rivera on the performance of this program in response to need fromnd what they congress to fully implement this Program Consistent with our intent. I yield to the Ranking Member for opening statements. Thank you. Thank you for holding this meeting on the Small Business administrations Economic Disaster loan program, properly known as the idle program. At the beginning of the year, Small Businesses were reaching new heights. We were experiencing historic levels of unemployment and momentum was building. Amongample, unemployment african americans, asian americans, hispanic americans were at alltime lows, meaning more people were working. Unfortunately, covid19 made its way to our shores. As a result, huge number of americas Small Businesses were forced to close their doors. With the made for goods and Services Limited by the emergency, Small Businesses shifted to survival mode. It was clear from the beginning that the nations smallest firms would need access to capital to weather the storm. The sba was handed a task that was unequaled in our history. Congress commanded bipartisan fashion, and the federal agency that represents, assists and fights for americas businesses responded by setting up the payment of the Paycheck Protection Program, which works in partnership with private lenders to deliver funds to Small Businesses. This program has delivered 4. 8 million loans in the amount of nearly half or over half 1 trillion now. The sba also continued to administer the Economic Injury disaster loan program. Which had its roots as a postevent Recovery Program for businesses in communities hit by a Natural Disaster. Both of these programs, from the beginning of the crisis, experienced overwhelming and unprecedented demand. The program shifted from being a regional program, a Natural Disaster typically strikes atypical locale, to a fullfledged National Relief program. This far, the program has delivered just over 2 million loans for 127 billion. In my home state of ohio, the program has delivered 45,000 loans for 2. 6 billion. I would like to thank the sba for being a resource for Small Businesses come printers and startups. However, a number of months into the crisis now and the program has a lot of room for improvement. While the loans are being processed and the advanced rants dispersed, too many Small Businesses are left with questions, questions on communication, questions on the status of their loan, and questions surrounding the maximum amount under the program. When Business Owners are left with limited information, common Business Decisions become difficult. We must strive to provide a Small Businesses with as much information as possible, especially during uncertain times. I look forward to getting to the bottom of many of these questions, and determining how we can Work Together to provide solutions for our nations smallest firms. I want to thank the associate administrator, mr. James rivera, for joining us and i look forward to his testimony. And answering questions from members on both sides of the aisle. As was the case prior to the covid19 outbreak, i know that Small Businesses that will once again be our nations guiding light. With that, i yield back. Thank you. I want to take a moment to explain how this hearing will proceed. Each witness will have five mittenutes to provide a statement and each Committee Member will have five minutes for questions. Ensure that your microphone is on when you begin speaking and then returned to mute when finished. I want to introduce mr. James rivera, the associate administrator for sba office of Disaster Assistance. In his capacity, he directs the disaster loan program, including idol. He began his career in texas in 1989, serving as a disaster loan specialist. Over his 30 years in his sba career, he has also served as the associate administrator for the office of financial assistance, and prior to his Public Service he was a commercial loan officer in the private sector. We welcome you back to the committee and you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Rivera good morning chairman velasquez, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to update you on our Economic Disaster loan program and our response to the coronavirus pandemic. With statesa worked and territories to facilitate the approval of disaster declarations for Small Businesses. At that time, the administrator made an important change it to ease the impact certification, this enabled the sba to provide disaster loans for Small Businesses in all 50 states and six u. S. Territories, and established a nationwide assistance program. As a result, the loan numbers in dollars we are experiencing are unprecedented so far. This agency has provided Economic Relief to over 6. 8 million Small Businesses for over 147 billion. This more than doubles the amount of disaster aid provided in the entire 67 year history of the agency. To help achieve that, they created and implemented a new online portal application and Distribution System for loans and grants. This system has handled over 8 million applications and has allowed us to distribute dollars to businesses in record time. We are currently processing grants in less than two days. Nationwidec and program has required the agency to scale up our disaster staff, now totaling over 7000 personnel. Meanwhile, our Program Office continues to service 180 175 other disaster declarations, which requests from governors have assisted in the areas of civil unrest. These are unparalleled for the agency and havent been without their challenges. However, let me mention a few. First between march and the end of april the agency had to stop processing applications three times. This was due to the Program Changes made through the act legislation, the lack of funds and the need to stand up to the grants. The agency received close to 4 million applications in the two week period and they set us back and weve been working hard to catch up since. Moving quickly to build a new system they were not able to provide the same visibility as exists in the disaster loan application portal, this is with the volume mentioned above resulted in uncertainty for many. Following the exhaustion of the funds, the agency learned how to maximize the dollars for the applications. Newly eligible businesses in future applicants in reopening the portal two weeks ago. We also need to keep in mind that the application period has defined runs through middecember. With regards to the grants, the agency consulted bill authors and through a per employee allocation we have been able to reach 2. 2 million more with financial aid. I mentioned the Significant Growth in the staffing but that comes with the need of educational training. We adjust to the demands in the callcenter and low Processing Centers and highlighting the success reflecting the challenges its also important to evaluate where we are today. We have been continually processing loans for two months. Applications have not been initially positioned, all advances have been distributed and processing times due to volume and stoppages averaged around 41 days. Since we reopened, the processing times for new applications are now five days. We are much stronger and in a operational staff level today and Small Businesses are getting the needed dollars disbursed to them in record time. At the sba, the mission is one service. We have a proud history of helping Small Business owners in their time of need. Every disaster is unique and there are always Lessons Learned. While facing a situation like unlike any in history copy had to do this while updating in a virtual environment ourselves. And we also had not been affected by the pandemic having lost one of our Staff Members to the virus. We will continue to work closely with you to achieve that goal. I recognize myself for five minutes we received approximately 2. 7 billion in funding. To fulfill your mission, other Agency Programs are struggling Small Businesses. What portion was allocated to the office of Disaster Assistance and how much has been spent and what has been the biggest cost drivers . Weve received two sets of funds. We used 7 billion initially in our existing debt carried over on the long side and administrative side major cost to answer the question, we have 7,000 employees and close to 2,000 contractors. They are running a 24 7 operation of a call center so a lot of these expenses weve not had a Natural Disaster have grown exponentially. So, you hired more staff and contractors to help you perform the duties to the office to get that money to you ive been in this committee for 28 years and i know every time there is a Natural Disaster how bad the agency has failed because the budgets of consequences and pretend the budget is passed is going to be reduced to of course we provided the money to hire more staff and contractors those are issues we need to keep in mind because the Climate Change isnt going away. I have heard complaints about the sba for Customer Service. If only to be told that the applications were pending. Why were they unable to provide more detailed applications through the process . We started the system that we respond to disasters. Weve got the first two to three weeks when we received the opportunity to do the Grant Program but they never had in the disaster loan side, we pivoted to the contract that weve received of the contract that enabled us to rebuild it in looking back we should have had visibility, no doubt about it because we had with previous disaster loan application portals. What happened to get this service out and get to the new portal we didnt have this ability. Once we get invited into the loan or the grand, there is visibility that in hindsight we should have added that. They said that it was working to add more. When will that be completed fax everything has been processed and we have received close to additional 2 million, 2 million loan applications. There is visibility from the perspective. So why then did they say there was more stability . We assist the applications they eliminated the loan to 150,000. What percentage had requested should have received more than 150,000 clicks we currently run 80 of the applications below 150,000. Can you answer my question, the percentage that applied for 2 million but didnt receive it and got 150,000 . We determine Economic Injury. You can request whatever you want based on the working capital and we could have done a better job communicating its not based on whether the loan amount you are requesting. Its different than the Traditional Bank loan in the perspective. My time has expired and i now recognize the Ranking Member. Ive heard from many Small Businesses and numerous members of congress about the lack of communication coming from the sba with regards to the Article Program specifically. How can we make sure they receive the most uptodate information and are there any programmatic changes that we need to consider . The last three months its been a tough road obviously. This is a national footprint, its not the regional disaster from that perspective. We learned a lot and we need to do a better job we definitely want to work with you on that. Do you believe the private lenders could have a role within the disaster loan program. Let me state what we are doing. Weve used the contract. Basically this company is doing with the private lenders are doing. They are processing the loan for us under the traditional goal is to loans per day under this contract we are using where we have the business doing this Bank Business to process the loans they couldnt have processed on the existing platform. Thats why we stopped for two weeks and we felt this portal with the institution and thats what has enabled us to do that. Moving forward, this is the path forward. Its increased a cycle of times with the productivity that helped us provide Faster Service service. It tends to be less efficient because we dont compete with others and thats sped up the process. We started to see some businesses return under the modified operations. Congress is debating the federal governments nextfederalgovernments next steps as it pertains to this emergency. To ensure that it assists the applicants and how can we structure the program to be flexible and nimble when the next disaster strikes . From the perspective of what you enable us to do there were statutory requirements. We didnt have to get federal tax returns from that perspective, so you have been very helpful in this process. As we look at the volume in relation to what we processed we continue to have that discussion as far as other opportunities that we may have. How should we measure the effectiveness . I wish i could approve every load. The current Approval Rating is 50 . One of the things thats different is we have a sign we are able to disperse the next day. Under the traditional process that takes two to three flipping paper back and forth with the Small Business. Now we are 99 of disperse so of the 131. 9 billion we have approved the already disbursed 130 billion a. There is a turnaround from that perspective so its been positive. That is one of the Lessons Learned from the Technology Perspective using the algorithms and those type of features. We need to figure out how to better improve. Many of them receive grants. The advance from that perspective, but we are going to come out with less and we will be sure to share that with you when this ends and we can move on and look back from that perspective. Thank you and my time is expired. Time is expired and now ms. Davis is recognized. Thank you for holding this hearing today. The Economic Disaster loan program is meant to provide an immediate lifeline to the businesses that are struggling in the corona virus pandemic. Ive heard from too many Small Businesses experiencing the delays and lack of transparency. Thank you for joining us today. As i heard from my constituents and witnesses reference to the frustration, i am curious about whether or not you are working to provide more stepbystep application information for applicants and whether or not they were going to be able to have more frequent and open Communications James rivera going forward. Talking about the technological and operational work that you are doing, i am curious what that is going to look like going forward. We have one to 2 million individuals that continue. We are leaving messages and if i could fast forward to today, we are better operationally than then we were 90 days ago when we were standing up. Looking back we should have probably had Better Communications and been more transparent when it comes to the ten steps in the process. That is the kind of tactical approach to the local District Office and in the kansas city natural area has done a great job of outrage and im curious to we work very collaboratively with those operations as far as communicating back and forth with us. Its whos been receiving the various loans and grants. I appreciate your work and time today. With that, i will yield back. They hold a hearing with all of our partners and they mentioned that they learned of changes made by the sba on rules and collaborative with field operations. Been very Clear Communication that comes in from your district. Plusve a direct line of 20 disaster agents that can provide responses from that perspective. They have other stuff to do. They spent most of their time pp communicating with us. I have appreciated the work on helping us to increase the transparency around who has been receiving ,he various loans and grants and i appreciate the work and your time today. I will yield back. To take thegoing privilege of using 55 seconds to ask you a followup question on the question that she asked. Herewe held the hearing with partners, they mentioned that they learned of changes made by sba on rules and , so you from the media need to have better coordination with the partners in the field helping and providing the most accurate information. Yes, we agree. Of entrepreneurial just five or 10 offices away from me. The challenges we had, this is such a new process for us, we communicated internally. Sometimes people communicated with the media before we got to our resource partners. We clearly understand we need to do a better job communicating. The gentlelady from American Samoa is recognized for five minutes. Beautiful morning here in American Samoa at 3 30 a. M. Thank you for being with us today. Can you explain the rationale for initially allowing only agricultural related businesses access to the portal for weeks . That caused some confusion in my home district. What do you think members of congress should focus on within the program as we debate next steps . Regarding the agricultural applications, we processed those concurrently. Queue fora separate the agricultural enterprises. They were being processed concurrently from that perspective. What could we do different . As i mentioned earlier, the ability to let us not have to do credit alternate tests, not to have federal tax transcripts. A lot of those have been phenomenal and have enabled us to have a more cookiecutter approach to get this assistance out as soon as possible. Room forlieve there is private lenders to operate within the sba Stafford Loan Program . As i mentioned earlier, we are using a private Sector Organization that has we had it surge contract post maria. That is their portal. You go to their portal. They do the algorithm with all of the data. They bring it back to us with a loan officer to do the decisioning. Had we not had that relationship and contract, we would not have been able to process 25 loans on average per loan officer per day. We would probably be two or three loans per day. That is not acceptable. We take advantage of these opportunities with these private Sector Organizations. You. Ank i yield back the balance of my time. The gentlelady yields back. We recognize the gentlelady from california for five minutes. The cares act provided 25 million for sba developed resources in nonenglish languages. The agencyecognize for publishing in 17 linkages. Asian american businesses have been hard hit by the covid pandemic. 175,000 asianamericans do is this an nonenglishlanguage is and one third of the community is limited english proficient. If sba does not reach its mandate, they risk recovery. Remains available only in english. The agency still has not updated congress on what actions it is taking to proactively reach out to Business Owners with limited English Proficiency. Could you explain what specific steps your office has taken to ensure that vital is accessible to Business Owners with limited as weh proficiency provided 25 million for this . We translated fact sheets into 17 different languages. Im looking at the chairwoman. I remember during hurricane maria, we choked when it came to Language Services. We have a 2 Million Contract where we use translators. We have not heard anything from the Language Services perspective when it comes to being able to translate. We understand that need. Our application is still in english. We have an application in spanish. We will continue to figure out how to get more languages as we proceed from that perspective. You have been provided 25 million to translate. The reason you have not heard anything is because most people with limited English Proficiency are shut out. I would urge you to translate both applications. Steps to ensure that independent contractors and the selfemployed were fully included in the Small Business Recovery Resources made available during the crisis. That includes the vital Emergency Loan Program established by the cares act, which was to be valued at 10,000 per application and to work in concert with the Paycheck Protection Program, which would provide a quick injection of resources. Im deeply concerned about sbas cap emergency grants at 1000 per employee as inconsistent with congressional intent and has had disproportionate impact on these , especiallyworkers in southern california. Independent businesses are struggling to pay as many Creative Industries in my district are impacted by the halt in production caused by Public Health guidelines. How does the sba justify cutting the grants value by 90 for sole proprietors . Does the sba land to make adjustments to the grants for these Small Business owners . We put a lot of analysis into these determinations and decisions. At the agency level, it was decided to do 1000 per employee. If you are selfemployed, he received a 1000 grant. Had we used 10,000, we would have been out of funds immediately. We did get the first 10 billion and the subsequent 10 billion. This morning we are at 16 billion. We would have run out of money. We are trying to provide as much assistance to as many Small Businesses as possible. That is the approach we took. That you have not sbtc to the right information . I will have to get back to you. I have to have a conversation with the deputy administrator. Havenformation we internally sometimes gets out before we are able to distribute it through the entire resource partner perspective. The time has expired. We recognize the gentleman from ohio. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here today and answering some of our questions. The question i was asking was already asked by a colleague, but i would like to expand a little bit. You are asked and i want to continue from the question about americas Small Business under previous disasters. You used the example of hurricanes harvey, maria, and irma. Werecanes harvey and irma just weeks from each other. Can you repeat the last part of that question . Rtal, fore idle po these 2017 storms, did you close the idle portal for 1 7 of the population . I dont believe we did. We are working on two different systems. We have the Disaster Management system that is handling all noncovid, and this specific portal is specific to covid. Billion ofe 1 Natural Disaster loans this year that are noncovid. Ast track continues to go business as usual. Thank you. During any previous disaster, le funds were distributed by sba, was it normal to shut out access to idle funds . Idle funds are 2 of natural aresters most of the loans two homeowners. Congress gave us the authority in 1953 for homeowners. Homeowners, then businesses, and then there is an Economic Injury disaster loan component. I can check back with you if there is a misunderstanding. Thank you very much. I yield back the remainder of my time. Would you yield for a second . Yes. Is your question related to the fact that the sba idle and justhut the portal allowed agricultural borrowers to apply for loans . Yes. Hes asking you if there has been in the history of the idle program any time where one group is coming in like the agricultural partners and then shutting the portal for we processed concurrently. We continued with the idle track. These are covid19 related borrowers. Loans andplying for nonfarmers were not allowed to apply because the portal was shuttered for them. I understand your question. Why did you make that decision and who made the decision . It was an agency determination. White . Gave us theongress authority to make loans to farmers. Congress did not give you the authority to shutdown the portal thatery other borrower were injured by covid19. Since we have opened the portal up since june 15, we accepted the 500,000 applications in the queue. It delayed maybe two weeks. Do you realize how many borrowers were calling our offices crying out because they needed assistance and the portal was shut down for them . Clearly stated. Agricultural. I apologized for answering not answering your question earlier. To have a just like sense as to why that happened. Why the portal was only opened for agribusinesses . We did not have authority for the enterprise since the mid80s so we had to stop, to change the system. We also got additional funding. Did not have funding at the time. We had to get the additional 50 billion so there were stop and goes. That was an agency decision. I yelled my time. I will be brief. For the dozens of people who might be watching at home, the thing that we have to have out there is the fact that the loan program was not open to agriculture or farming originally, then we passed legislation to open it up to the agricultural community. For a time, it was only open to the act community. Although the applications were still there. It was only open to the Agriculture Community than it was reopened. That is the reason behind this. We have people in the Agriculture Community who were not eligible the men were. I understand why we might argue with that decision. I had people in my district who were not agriculture but that was the reason. Correct . Thank you. Communicated to the general public. Now we recognize the gentlelady from minnesota. For five minutes. Thank you so much. Mr. Rivera, i am sitting here and this is not my prepared question, but i want you to understand if you really think if you really believe that the agency could do better, it is the best response to the performance. I have a lot of businesses in my district who, if this were the kind of Customer Service level but they had provided, they would be out of business three months ago. I am sitting here today going for my female because i have got i am going through my female email. I have a gentleman who finally got a response from you and there was information missing on his application. The acting this to director, we were told there was line thatemail members of congress could use to help their constituents get a response on their loan applications. Nine days later, we got a response to the mail that says there is missing information and still not telling us so we can tell our constituents what whatmation was missing or was needed to help that application. The chairwoman has brought up the lack of communication. In case no one else was telling you directly, the Customer Service levels our constituents are facing is terrible. I understand the volume. Underk you guys are pressure to respond, but six days ago i spent i sent a response asking for someone please do help this constituent and i am sitting here today and still we have no response. I am a member of congress. I cannot even imagine what is happening on a daily basis inside the Customer Service group. One isto make sure no sugarcoating this for you. I am not going to sugarcoat this fort minnesotans or the american people. The administration of this program has been absolutely terrible. That iwant to say also understand this meeting is about idle and i came here to ask a question. Somebody has to tell the truth about what our constituents are facing. I appreciate the hard work you have done to finally get a member of the sba to come in front of this committee. I sent a number of letters to the administrator and i want to make sure that during this hearing, i also have an opportunity to say that the ppp program has also been unacceptable. I understand that your administration waited until the very last day to respond to requests for data to the Government Accountability office and only you replied when the data had already been made public. Why is lowlevel data not being released at this time even to the Government Accountability office . We need a commitment to release the copperheads of list of firms who applied for and received aid under the ppp. We need to make sure the transparency is essential to understand that these funds went to good use. That is our role as numbers of congress. To make sure that we are doing the best job we cant. To oversee the use of taxpayer dollars. Mr. Rivera, i want to say i appreciate you being here today. I know this is not going to be all that much fun. I want to make sure you understand that what has been happening, understanding there have been a lot of challenges with the volume is simply unacceptable. Thank you for your comments. We dont take it lightly went we are not providing the Customer Service that we need to do. If we can talk offline, we can see what the issues are. As i mentioned, this mornings report, we did individuals we get individuals through in three days. Grants, five days. Was it slow . Yes. We passed 7 million calls yesterday. A lot of work for a lot of individuals and we are doing the best we can. If there are opportunities on how you can help us or we need to get Better Service for you, please just tell us and we will get that service. Thats what i was told one month ago. I will continue to do my best, i dont no one what else to tell you from that perspective. Thank you, i guilt that. I yield back. Thank you. Mr. Rivera, thank you for being your today and answering questions regarding the idle program. I always find interesting when we complain about inefficiencies at government yet we have colleagues who want to make it bigger. It has always been perplexing. I have been around as you can tell from a few gray hairs for a while. I cant think of any agency in government that has been very efficient as compared to industry that is accountable directly to a customer for its existence. With all that said, we spent all of our time here today talking about the current history of the program and how it compares to other programs that you have been involved in. Or geographies, disasters and things like that. I would ask you to compare those. Ive heard a lot of interest as it pertains to Business Interruption insurance and it is advisable for the National Pandemic or National Disaster versus the localized geography disaster. One thing i would ask you, and i think this could be a very bipartisan request that shouldnt be controversial at all and should give you a chance to perform at a very high level. This is very fresh and well. These coming from here and your Customer Base and people applying for the loan. Could you commit to us between now and the end of the quarter, so prior to any potential administrative changes, people running the agencies or whatever, can you commit about assembling best practices that youve learned from this. Its difficult and i know youve done it with your experience to take a localized disaster and extrapolate that across National Disaster. Have you tried to do that, you are a little behind the eight ball for the lot behind it in certain areas but it would be easy to take a National Pandemic disaster and localized it. If we could get from you a commitment from you that this hearing today you and your team could put together a playbook if you will for a simplistic term that would identify things you should do better like to you should communicate to and when you should communicate and why because we could all sit here and talk about learning as we did in the office of the 150,000 cap from the New York Times or the wall street journal or the washington examiner. We could all do these Different Things but it doesnt solve the problem or prevent them from happening in the future. We need the kind of skin in the game because then that kerry is on beyond the ideas and the things that are going to make it work in the future when this happens again and we hope its a long time and none of us were here when it happens again, but that is in the future for the second history matters. It matters a lot. It identifies what we shouldnt do it again and what we should be right next time. If you could help us put that into a format that could be given to this committee so that we can hold each other accountable and remind each other of what we need to be doing differently as we go forward, could you commit to that . Absolutely. September 30, 2020. Absolutely. And if i could just have like 15 seconds. You can have a minute and 44. Covid19 viruses were not in the Small Business act before march 15. We were not responding to this. We do have a playbook at the Disaster Preparedness Response Plan for Natural Disasters. I think that we have proven when it comes to this footprint, we have a 15 or 20 day response. Not in puerto rico. But if i may thought i would acknowledge that you have those and that is because people have to deal with recent disasters but now we have in our lifetime and legislative lifetime and in your administrative lifetime executive branch lifetime, you have a National Pandemic. We dont have that from 1918 spanish flu to rely on now because i would imagine many of the things we have in without the technology would do the same. We would be communicating in different formats that we have the ability to communicate and i had people calling me like many others did. I thought they were going to apply for a 2 milliondollar loan and go through the process and were told 150,000 in their mind they wasted a lot of time, they could have gone to having it set up their business quicker so there was a lack of communication which is usually what destroys most relationships and everything we do so if we could just get a communication process plan that again, and i took one minute and 20 seconds of your response time, but i am acknowledging that you have good regional disaster plans because unfortunately we have to deal with them time and time again it year after year. But it could be 20, 30, 40 years but we will go forever in the congressional records and possibly the legislation to process to handle the National Epidemics pandemics as we go forward. Thank you. And i will be healed. The gentleman yields back and now we recognize the gentleman from minnesota. Thank you madam chair. We know that the Small Business administration has really given a nearly impossible task. Overnight they were asked to assist every Small Business across the nation. I commend the work youve done thus far but there is a lot more to do. I do want to share some concerns that were brought up here earlier. It seems sba has taken some