Coronavirus pandemic continues. Spoken policy experts about chinas global influence and why continued engagement with china is in the best interest of the u. S. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. Before we proceed to our topic the National Security implications of the u. S. And china relationship in a post covid world, housekeeping matters. The session will be conducted on an unclassified basis p all participants should refrain from discussing any class of either other information protected from public disclosure. The committee is conducting this virtual hearing with House Resolution 965 and the regulations for the conduct of Remote Committee proceedings. It is being broadcast on the committees website. Like many of you, i would have preferred to hold this hearing in person but because of the threat posed by covid19, it remained serious and widespread. We are proceeding in the best manner we can, remotely in todays case, in order to ensure the safety of our witnesses, members, staff, and the public. Todays conversation is essential to our oversight of how the nation should adapt to meet the challenge posed by an increasingly assertive china, especially as this shift occurs against the backdrop of a Global Pandemic with farreaching and unseen implications. I had hoped that this would be a bipartisan discussion. Unfortunately, without reason or justification, our republican colleagues once again have ided to i hope they will join us for future unclassified public closeds and unclassified roundtables. We will continue to have them as they are being used to frame the oversight issues and requests and inform our members of the myriad threats facing the country. The American People expect the congress will continue doing its job even in the pandemic and that means showing up, at a minimum whether we want to or not, whether conducted remotely or in person. These hearings and supplemental roundtables are essential business and integral it and our responsibilities in the classified round. Realm. The American People have a right to expect us to conduct business in a way that prioritizes the safety of witnesses and the public. That me remind members of the remote hearing procedures, consistent with regulations, the committee will keep microphones muted to limit background noise. Members are responsible for on muting themselves when they seek recognition. Because there are sometimes delays when muting or on muting unmuting, ensure the last member has stopped talking. Members and witnesses must have their cameras on at all times. If you need to step away, leave your camera on. If you encounter technical difficulties, please contact Technical Support through the channels established prior to this hearing. Our technical staff will work to get you back up and running as quickly as possible. Consistent with past practice, i will at appropriate times recognize members for their five minutes in order of seniority, starting with those present at the commencement of the hearing. Thank you for your patience as we proceed under these unusual circumstances. Todays hearing is convened at the height of a Global Pandemic, as evidenced by the virtual format of this hearing. Covid19 has daily and fundamentally shaped our lives. Unfortunately and undoubtedly, covid19 will have similar impacts on u. S. National Security Issues and must prompt the committee to reexamine its standing priorities. Several witnesses prepared payments for the record and referred to this unique moment in history as clarifying. For the United States, it is evident that the National Security and intelligence challenges that we face in coming decades will have considerably evolved from the post9 11 world. U. S. Allies and partners, the reliability, capability, and staying power of the United States appears at the moment far off and uncertain. China, in the midst of a strategic window of opportunity, the pandemic continues to offer a new has for beijing to assert longstanding sovereignty claims , bringing parity and emerging technology to shape the broader International Order in a manner conducive to its own interests. Just yesterday, china moved to implement sweeping new National Security legislation in hong kong, permanently fracturing hong kongs present judicial independence. China engaged in deadly clashes along the line of actual in the tragic death of a dozen indian soldiers and an unknown chinese death toll as well. Scientists that recently identified a new flu strain with pandemic attentional, demonstrating the Global Health events of International Concern will continue to emanate from china. Notwithstanding the implications of these events, the landscape of the international economy, and the united date and chinas respective roles in it, it will be more directly impacted by covid19. Growing calls for the u. S. To pursue a strategy of technological decoupling and increase the resilience of the u. S. Supply chain, present real choices for policymakers. In the face of chinas one built, one Road Strategic Initiative and washingtons ability to clearly communicate economic benefits of continued engagement with the u. S. Has proven limited. The Committee Takes these shifting dynamics seriously. We initiated the china deep dive and set out to conduct a comprehensive assessment of the Intelligence Communitys ability address multifaceted challenges that china poses. Our findings remain with the Intelligence Community for comment and a declassification review and we have identified several areas requiring additional focus and oversight. Our annual intelligence authorization act will continue to champion the importance of collection and analysis on chinafocused issues. Competing with china cannot and should not be a slogan. It requires deliberate policy action and careful introspection about how we draw on our inherent strengths. Inone of our witnesses notes prepared testimony, we cannot underestimate the benefits associated with safeguarding and championing the promise of american opportunity. Navigatested states an increasingly fraught bilateral relationship with china, particularly in conjunction with a Global Recovery from covid19, its prudent to take stock and prepare. Today, we hope to do just that. I want to welcome our witnesses. We will proceed with fiveminute Opening Statements going in the following order. Ross, director, center of u. S. China relations, asia , asian, then dr. Evan studies, and distinguished fellow, school of foreign the seniord then fellow for Foreign Policy at the brookings institution, and finally, merit this meredith sumter. With that, why dont we begin with you . You are recognized for five minutes. You are all recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Thank you for holding this hearing. Unmute. Thanks to the community as well for holding this hearing. It comes at an extraordinary time. With the interNational Security law in hong kong, just sort of at the beach, it is more relevant than ever. Suggest for a moment why this is such a moment of inflection. I think it has become increasingly evident that china is not just a trade question, a question of how the global marketplace has itself but it is also a military question and now, it is more obvious than ever that it is also a question about competition. I think, between systems and values. Relationship in a different frame of reference. When i say that, what i mean is to manywere accustomed a long piece in the record is my testimony. The center of how we related to china. What were the presumptions of that . 1972 with in kissinger and nixon going to china. If we simply engaged across the board, that slowly, we would e a greater likelihood of out of the cold war. What is so extraordinary about the policy of engagement, and i am not one of the people who believes in the policy. I believe it is a failed policy. It is not erroneous precisely because for a administrations can eight administrations, the United States thought it was the height of leadership to china bend china, to help assist china to work out of its revolutionary period. Marketplace, International Order, etc. , etc. I think if you look at all these different administrations and go through them one by one in your record, it is so striking to see how one president , republican usually,rat, ultimately, they embraced the notion that we should try to engage china, so what happened . Just a cut to the chase, what happened was that we have a regime in china now thats very different in its set of pathway wes than the have laid out by deng xiaoping. Without reform, without the presumption that china will both reform economically and politically, to some degree, engagement has no basis because if you are not converging, then you are diverging, and if china actually is not trying to slowly old maoistof its form of government, it is deciding that that is what it is and that is what its model is and that is what it is going to be projecting around the world. That is indeed what i think we see in hong kong today so i think we are at a tremendously dangerous moment. We do not have a framework for dealing with china. We have a framework that failed. We dont know what is going to replace it. A very frayed alliance system. I think that is most one of the most critical elements that should be focused on. Last point. It is with great regret that a note republican colleagues this is an issue and normas interest in actually, of some agreement. The fact that we cannot get together with washington in a thertisan way to perfect framework, a new formulation, inasmuch agreement here as there is for any other issue. Let me stop here. Thanks. You are absolutely right. It is lamentable. It was not for a lack of our trying. I want to assure you of that. I should also mention that many of us find ourselves having a nice library, which is featured behind us, but none of us can hold a candle to you. Wonderfulfor that introduction to our hearing today. Lets go to dr. Medeiros. Thank you. Members of the committee. Thanks for the opportunity to discuss the u. S. China relationship and its impact on National Security and intelligence in a postcobit world. From a Historical Perspective and with an eye on the past 40 years of u. S. China relations, i am hardpressed to identify a time since normalization in 1979 when so much was in flux. A key time, perhaps the key time, to examine the forces driving the u. S. China relationship, especially from the perspective of the role that policymakers and the Intelligence Community can play. In my presentation, i want to focus on three issues. Number one, the current state of the relationship. The impact of covid and policy recommendation. First, regarding the current state of relationships, i would argue there is a unique and worrisome convergence in the short term cyclical drivers, things like the lack of communication, the president s personal ties to xi jinping, and how politicized relations have become, with the longterm structural drivers of the relationship such as the fact that there are now new and expanding sources of competition , security, economics, technology, and even ideology. And both of these cyclical or short term drivers and the longterm structural drivers are pushing the relationship in a more competitive and confrontational direction. This is occurring at the same time that many of the classic offers and stabilizers in the relationship against competition such as the role of top leaders, shared global challenges, the role of economic independence in the Business Community are diminishing in their importance and in some cases, certain stabilizers and buffers are simply in operative. It is uncertain that a new u. S. President could or would fundamentally change this dynamic or perhaps less likely that xi jinping would change the course in the coming years, but i think we should accept that this convergence of short term and longterm structural will be with us for a long time. Given these dynamics, covid19 could not have come at a worse time for the relationship, given the fact that it is facing multiple stresses. I believe that the pandemic has had the following effects on this relationship. Number one, it has extension weighted the trusting polarization in both countries. In the United States, covid has highlighted the differences between our political system and increased pressure for economic decoupling from china. The pandemic has reinforced beliefs that the United States seeks to contain china and globally and delegitimize the communist party at home. This has produced a cycle of usual recrimination that is getting worse. The covid has politicized u. S. China relationship. Delete politics elite politics in china. They are criticizing china and the ccps role in spreading covid19 to elect the covid 19 campaign. For chinese politicians, being resolute has become a common theme promoted by the communist party. Number three, as covid has spread globally, china has used what many call its mask diplomacy, its offers of material assistance. But unfortunately, or fortunately, this diplomacy has consistently alienated many countries. Chinese diplomats have pushed other countries to praise chinas efforts and disparage those countries who criticize china. They have been using diplomacy but in a way that alienates a lot of countries. Lastly, it is the issue of whether or not we are facing chinese activism or opportunism. It has been the activism in advancing its territorial claims including within br, japan, vietnam, malaysia, and perhaps others. Understanding chinas precise motives is difficult. Nonetheless, it is generating a lot of instability in east asia. Policy close with four recommendations. Number one, the United States needs to rethink competition. American policymakers need to debate how to compete with china on what issues, in what theaters, and with what tools, and perhaps most importantly, at what cost. Need to rebuild communication. A central challenge for u. S. Policymaking policymakers Going Forward is going to be to reconceptualize and then rebuild bilateral communication in a manner that serves u. S. Interests. Keeping in mind that beijing has dialogue in the past to play for time and advantage, new channels will need to be both results driven, frequent balancing of quality and quantity. Number three, we need to reset our expectations about the future of the relationship and adjust our strategy and policy accordingly. In particular, resetting expectations about where givenss can be achieved the resistance to change in china, but also, we need to be mindful that we are going to have to reset our expectations about being comfortable with tolerating friction in the relationship but also adept at managing and using friction to serve american interests. Lastly, and i will conclude on this point, i think that the u. S. Government needs to reconstitute its open source analysis of china. Involve thegoing to Intelligence Community expanding what used to be a very substantial effort and is now shrunken. , cheneyse analysis intentions and policies, is an essential component to understanding the overall trajectory of china as well as u. S. China relations. To do it. The u. S. Government had a very extensive bureaucracy devoted to open source analysis, especially in collaboration with universities and think tanks. I dont think the u. S. China relationship is any less a consequential challenge and as a result, open source analysis needs to be rebuilt, expanded, and this will require new resources and leadership. I conclude my opening presentation and would like to submit my formal written statement for the record and welcome any and all questions. Thank you. Your written statement will be included in the record. To dr. Turn thank you for the invitation to speak at this hearing. Even as the u. S. And india have engaged with china, over the last two decades, their shared concerns for chinas behavior has been a key driver for the partnership. Over the last few months, there have been two Key Developments that have increased those concerns in new delhi. First, the Peoples Liberation army since early may to unilaterally change the status quote. The de facto boundary between the two countries which led to the first clash in 45 years between the two militaries. And second, the coronavirus pandemic. Both these developments have had and will continue to have an impact on indian news and approaches towards china, the United States, and the International Order. Andber 2019, xi Jinping Narendra modi sought to stressed sino indian corporation, however, the pandemic and boundary crisis have demonstrated that despite efforts to engage over the last few decades, chinaindia relationship remains a fundamentally and increasingly competitive relationship that can into conflict. Theboundary crisis and pandemic there continues to be debate about the motivations. Covid19 might have had an impact. At the strategic level, the boundary crisis is part of a battle of chinese assertiveness on a number of fronts. Ity are divided on whether stems from xi jinping wanting to show strength because of concerns about domestic and International Criticism against regimes handling of the beijings desire to take advantage of other countries including the United States being on the back foot or distracted due to the coronavirus. The pandemic seems to have had an impact at the operational level. They sought to have redeployed from its annual springtime military to undertake changing the status quo. India has postponed its exercise due to the pandemic. Side of strength on the the boundary to respond initially. The boundary crisis and the pandemic have reinforced and accelerated concern in india about chinas lack of transparency. Uncertain commitment to the rulesbased order. As well as the growing influence in the indo pacific and international institutions. Official views of china and india with government signaling that the boundary crisis will have a serious impact on the broader relationship, ticularly during the course of the pandemic and the boundary crisis, new delhi has already enforced restrictions on additional scrutiny on chinese economic and technology interest within the broader Strategic Community in india. There is a near consensus that ties with beijing need to be reassessed or reset and Public Perceptions of china have deteriorated considerably. At the same time, the boundary crisis in the pandemic has led to and he had to maintain a deeper furniture put the u. S. And a robust role in ensuring a rulesbased order prevails in the region and globally. There will be an increase in the willingness to work with the u. S. As well as American Airlines like australia and japan at the multilateral level to achieve that objective and maintaining a balance in asia. New delhi and washington have been in close talks for the pandemic and boundary crisis. As we look ahead, a few points to consider. The boundary crisis remains here and requires careful watching. Washington will be considering different scenarios. Isther or not the u. S. Willing to be responsive and if it is, prepare for those contingencies. Second, if the u. S. Wants to be responsive or to show support to india, it should convey this willingness while taking care not to escalate the situation. It will facilitate a closer indian alignment with the u. S. In the future. Washington should not try to push the indians decision or that really think it is taking advantage of the boundary crisis. That would be unhelpful if not counterproductive. How india deals with these health and National Security crises as well as the choices it makes, will affect the u. S. A lot of opportunities but potentially also challenges. For instance, india is reducing its economic if this leads to broader indian protectionism, that could adversely affect American Economic interests. Finally, the willingness of partners like india to cooperate with the interests in the region will depend not just on chinese missteps but on the u. S. Willingness and ability to respond. A robust american response at home and abroad to covid19 and to challenges to the rulesbased order might help to stir chinese behavior and it will definitely make washington a more attractive partner that will increase these countries willingness to cooperate with the u. S. Foreign secretary said the world needs balance. At the moment, no country other than the United States has the means to ensure it. At a practical level, the leadership is indispensable. Thank you. Thank you. Lets turn to miss sumter. Thank you for the invitation to speak today. My remarks were focused on three areas. Shifting economic and trade landscape and the post covid world order, its impact on other countries and the response to the u. S. And china and what steps the u. S. Could take to safeguard its interests, drawing from our strengths. First, on the impact of covid19 on Global Economy and trade, the pandemic is accelerating. Structural trends have been in place since the 2008 financial crisis. These trends include rising inequality and an uptick in protectionism and trade disruptions, and erosion of multilateralism with countries determining their response to covid on their own and lastly, the pandemic induced hardships. The Digital Economy is creating significant technological displacement that threatens to leave many more workers behind in both developed and emerging markets. These trends are accelerating against the backdrop of a pandemic that is deepening economic dislocation both within and between countries, and until there is a vaccine that is globally distributed, market economies are at risk of start onp openings that will drive growth and commercial activities. The imf anticipates Economic Activity will remain sluggish for an extended period despite the extraordinary monetary and fiscal support we have seen including from our own country. It will take two years to three years for Economic Activity to return to precrisis levels. While covid is bringing unprecedented change to economies and trade, two things are clear. First, that the pandemic is having an outsized effect on emerging markets. They are far more vulnerable to pandemic shocks down there developed market counterparts. This is important because the emerging markets are core sources of growth for the Global Economy and for u. S. Companies. We should expect these markets to face greater economic dislocations over the mediumterm. Second, there will be much more inequality due to the pandemic and this will place unprecedented stress on country governments to provide for their populations at a time when they will be physically constrained to do so by a low or negative growth environment, growing investment, and disruptive trade. So in this context, country governments will prioritize Economic Security and resiliency to recover their economies and to Economic Security will be the new National Security over the next several years. Recognizing this Economic Security imperative will be critical to assessing a countrys interests and its relationship with both major powers. This concept is important. It suggests our National Security should place more andasis on economic factors freedom to pursue interests without risk when assessing the levels of interest in the u. S. And china. That disconnect risks the u. S. Failing to capitalize on its strength. Economic emphasis on security imperative will focus policymakers who know is needed concern to government decisionmakers, bringing prosperity and opportunity to their people. What keeps our leaders up at night is how to meet the needs and expectations of the Worlds Largest emerging middle class at a time when covid is undercutting the governments ability to deliver. They will struggle to restore the livelihoods currently being hit by the pandemic, disruptive trade, negative growth, or all in supporting the country governments imperative to deliver to its people without restraints will garner the greatest influence. Thank you, mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Thank you very much for that testimony. We will now go to member questions. I have about a million questions, but im only going to ask one. I would encourage my colleagues to select their most pressing question and we will give more members an opportunity to participate and we may have time for a second round of questions. If forced to choose, im going to ask you about how the pandemic ought to shape our views, reaction, relationship with china. Let me frame that more narrowly by making the observation that 125,000 americans have now died from the pandemic. They have died from a virus that originated in china. Now this was not anything deliberate on chinas part. Im not suggesting the discredited Conspiracy Theory that this was a chinese bioweapon of any kind. Threat that originated in china has killed scores of americans. If it were a military conflict in china, that would necessitate a very strong reorientation of our defense posture and relationship. The pandemic is a very different kind of an animal. Escalate ourue to adversarial relationship with china. They were far from transparent in the early days and weeks, which was costly to us in the rest of the world, but that may make the threat of getting information about a subsequent pandemic greater, not less. And walking away from the who while china continues to engage or increase its engagement with the who may expose us to greater pandemic dangers, not less. I would be interested to know how you think the pandemic threat itself and we learned this week that there may be another candidate for another pandemic in china, how should the pandemic threat itself affect our relationship with china in the way that improves our security from other pandemics that could be so costly on american lives . Telling sign, but of the times, u. S. Travelers are now banned from europe. Chinese travelers may be allowed in europe because of our differing success or failure at dealing with the virus and that is a tragic, tragic state of affair. I open it up to any of our witnesses. How should the pandemic shape u. S. China relations. It is the great paradox of where we find ourselves. , we arene hand justifiably decoupling in certain critical ways and and parts of the relationship go into disequilibrium. Pushe other hand, that will not allow us to deal with the key issues which are now inescapable. The most metaphorically obvious escape. And we cannot Nuclear Proliferation and climate change. Even as we have to find ways i think to resist china and to be mindful that our National Security is actually in jeopardy by much of what china is doing, we also need to have the diplomatic skill to engage china on these other issues and that is of course a very distant horizon right now in this administrations efforts. The expulsion of u. S. Scientists who may have been able to observe workaday Chinese Laboratory or interact with the Chinese Health department, does the expulsion of those individuals, could be tripwires for us, does that improve our security or make us more at risk . Any other witnesses care to weigh in on this . Sure. Two points but i would like to highlight. Many waysic in captures one of the core dilemmas at the heart of the u. S. China relationship. On the one hand, we have competing interests, security, technology, questions of domestic and global governance, but on the other hand we are deeply interdependent. This is one of the fundamental core differences between the u. S. China relationship and the u. S. China u. S. Soviet relationship during the cold war. The idea that we could go our own way simply does not apply. There are certain things we can stop doing immediately and some of the racially motivated criticism of china simply doesnt help. It is not who we are as americans. America has a proud tradition of Asian Americans that have served throughout the government and contributed to u. S. Society, so some of these racially motivated terms that officials included in the administration have used like kong flew simply doesnt u simply doesnt help and that further politicize is the u. S. China relationship. Withdrawing from International Organizations where the United States has had a long track record of cooperating, especially when those organizations like the who have made a pledge at a recent meeting to conduct an international investigation. I think the United States can and should be a big part of that, if not a leader of that investigation. The chinese were woefully lacking in their transparency early on. Many of the systems they put in place after sars failed china. The chinese know that, the world now knows that, we are all suffering from that. Who andextent can the whatever kind of investigation and conducts addressed some of those issues so the world does not suffer again . Number three, we have to understand that china is going to have to be part of the solution to this. When we get to the stage of producing an international vaccine, distributing an international vaccine, do we want to think about cooperating and coordinating with the chinese in doing that . It is going to be a multinational effort. Once we get to the stage of treatment. On the issue of chinese diplomacy, where they overplayed their hand, where they have overreached with their mass diplomacy, where they are overreaching in terms of being assertive on territorial issues, there is space for the united to step forward and stand for those basic fundamental principles that the u. S. Has always stood for. I think we should see that as an withdraw fromot multilateral organizations, not work with partners and allies who are suffering from some of the coercion at the hands of the chinese during this particular episode. I think if the United States was able to put together a more coherent and cohesive approach, recognize the competitive aspects of the relationship, having no illusions about the china challenges china and china could play a role in that, it seems to me finding the right combination of those with certain american interests Going Forward. Rep. Schiff thank you. You, chairman and thank you to the witness says, that was a great presentation. I also just have one question i will direct to ms. Sumter. It is a nerveracking Movement Moment with china. The United States president decided hes going to run against china in the election. Weve seen this movie before. There are real concerns. There are tactical concerns in the South China Sea. There are values concerns. In all these conversations, i feel like we under appreciate chinese liabilities and challenges, whether the corruption or the need to grow their economy. I also feel like we under appreciate the fact that we are married, we are more than married to the chinese. Hold 1 trillion of our debt. Their Venture Capital is all over our economy. We cant divorce them. Than married to them economically. We use that probably unbreakable Economic Partnership and partnership is the wrong word, we are sort of married whether we like it or not, can we leverage that into improvement . Over andhe word failed over again with respect to engagement engagement, but if you look at the Economic Engagement that exists today versus the way it was 40, 50 years ago, isnt that a fairly dramatic positive story . I appreciate the question. The question is can we leverage the economic ties of china to improve on the strip political and strategic side . You are right to say that there are limits to the extent that these two economies can decouple. The chief feature between the relationship between these two Worlds Largest economies are also a competition in the next century will be between more open marketbased Economic System and the state directed Economic System represented by china, which beijing believes is imperative to the function of chinas own political system. It is a really existential issue. The decisionmakers believe their state directed Economic System is the foundation of the livelihood of their political system. In other words, we have been spending our energies trying to force china to change and china is not willing to change and economic model that it believes it underpins its political longevity. Thats what i mean by existential. So there are limits to how much we can force china to not be china. And china is working to try to create space for its own, unique model within what has been up a largely western based market consumption. Do we care if they have a more state directed model . This room is full of stuff that has chinese input. Do they send us stuff that is highquality and cheap. The swedes have a much more state directed model than we do, but do we really care . We care so long as we dont see chinas model as impairing on our model to compete. This is that level playing field. This is not about the political ideology of the past. This is about a competition over which economic model will deliver greater prosperity and more opportunity to more people in the years ahead. In the shortterm, there is all of this focus on chinas incredible rise and the success of its economic model. Space for itseate model to coexist in this market and Economic System. We need to rethink what competition actually means without model. Coexisting alongside our own marketbased model. While i think most of our energies have been focused on trying to change china, my view is that a key element of our extent will be upon the of the strength of our own economic model. For oure at home and partners abroad. We need to be investing in our source of competitiveness in the years ahead. I appreciate that. If there is a secondround or subsequent to this hearing, i want to see if youre pessimistic take accommodates the Economic Partnership, but i will yield back. Rep. Schiff thank you. You, mr. Chairman. I think our guests for their willingness to help us. Understanding this really difficult time we are in. It will be until there is a widely acceptable vaccine that is delivered globally. Until there is a vaccine, economies around the world will face a drag on long term growth due to the stopstart nature of global reopening. We have seen that in alabama where covid19 cases are surging. As you said, the economic inequality that we will see as a result of this pandemic will place unprecedented stress on governments to provide for their populations. Im particularly concerned about the competition countries will be in to gain the vaccine if it is not distributed globally and the broader impact any amount of vaccine scarcity, no matter how short, will have on our economic and security ties, particularly with those countries dependent upon china for economic aid. You made mention in your testimony of how the global spread of covid19 has fostered a climate that will make any sort of cooperation with the u. S. And china on vaccine production and distribution more difficult. Ofwe have seen, production antibiotics in ventilators and other supplies have been complicated by the difficulties in obtaining supplies. The threat is always there. If you were in your previous , what steps would you be taking right now for advising this president to take to reduce and whetherility that would be sabotaged with supply chains important to our economy . Why dont i go first . First things first, i would say that we are in the middle of a pandemic, it is getting worse and not getting better, as we all heard from dr. Fauci yesterday, so now is not the time to begin focusing on diversification. Now is the time to make sure that american citizens and healthcare workers have access to the products they need and to the extent that ppe and ventilators are produced in china, i would focus on security of supply and i would not politicize this issue. Either china and american politics or the covid issue, the president usually using racially motivated slurs i would not do that at a time when Americans Still rely on access to basic medical supplies in order to fight the pandemic. , i would initiate a study that looks at supply chain vulnerability or key medical devices when the time is to look atyou want where the vulnerabilities are. What extent do we do a lot rely on manufacturers in china for producing ventilators since that is such a Key Technology treating the virus . I would look at how many ventilators are produced by private manufacturers versus those that have some ties. Theuld look at opportunities for diversification. That is really the only answer, is to diversify supply. Question becomes to what extent is america so reliant on certain technologies that it may want to begin thinking about providing subsidies to suppliers in the United States . If we find it very hard to diversify to nonchina suppliers , then we will have to subsidize some manufacturers in the United States, i would take a look at that. So determining the scope of the vulnerability, determining what the alternative sources of supply are, determining whether or not some kind of policy intervention is going to be necessary would be the normal, natural thing you would do from the white house to begin delineating a response. But first things first is we have to fight this pandemic. It is getting worse, not better. To bew is not the time fighting the china fight. Now is the time to be making sure that americans stay as healthy and safe as possible. Dr. Sumter . I would just add that there are real concerns, both within our institutions and emergingmarket economies about the prospect of which developed market economy or the company therein is able to produce the first viable vaccine. That that country will prioritize the distribution of that vaccine for their own population or sell it to other countries and other populations that cant afford it. This would be disastrous for emerging markets and many of those markets could be facing a herd immunity context by the time a vaccine is made available to them sometime next year. But for those countries that feel powerless because they dont have hightech companies or medical companies that work within their borders that are producing a vaccine and have concerns about the extent to which such a vaccine will be made globally available in a , they are fair manner really wanting and looking for powerful countries to lead a multilateral response to how such a vaccine would be distributed. That is one area if we decide to reengage the who, this is one area where these emergingmarket economies dont feel comfortable with no leadership at the helm and certainly wouldnt feel comfortable with no china at the helm. They are looking for u. S. Leadership to be part of this solution. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Rep. Schiff mr. Quigley . You. Ank thank you for participating. If i could, i would like to go back to the china india boundary issues that are taking place right now. A little deeper dive, how far are these two sides going to go or what trigger should we be concerned about in the likelihood of escalation . Thank you, congressman. The two sides do not want to go to war in my opinion. They put in place a whole set of agreements and protocols at the boundary to ensure that while they have frequent standoffs because both sides patrol these they have been bumping up against each other during these patrols and as these standoffs increase, there are concerns that they could escalate. These agreements are put in place to ensure they would not escalate to the point of violence. One of the things that makes this crisis particular different and there have been three other crises of this sort since xi jinping has been in office, this one is different because it has done violence, which is concerning because it suggests that those agreements and protocols are no longer working. It also tells you what triggers could be. They were supposed to be in the process of digit disengagement. On june 15, something went wrong during the disengagement process. Essentially what resulted where the deaths for the first time in a number of years and that suggests that they both need to get back to the table, which is what they are doing. They are in dialogue at the military and diplomatic levels. Is eitherm might be there is a misunderstanding or not respecting the agreements that are reached. Is an area that is a rough terrain, highaltitude, not sidesweather and both deployed at a fairly high number in strength than they have been in decades. The two sides are at the negotiating table even as they have kept this build up and in some cases are increasing at. I think the situation remains serious. I cant rule out the potential for escalation. Having said that, they both have clearly shown a desire to at least stem the escalation for now. Whether or not they can resolve it in the near term is questionable because the two sides seem to want very different things. The indians want the chinese to move back to positions they were in in late april. It is not clear the chinese would be willing to do that or that india has the leverage to make that happen. Your testimony is very help. Thank you. Rep. Schiff mr. Swalwell . Thank you chair and thank you to our panelists. If this was playground four otherand we get countries to pick to be on where side to counter china, who are the four you would pick and it sounds like india is one of them . Me jump in here. One of the most striking things so isin the last year or the way that china has succeeded in alienating some of the most, you might say, these were not aligned countries like sweden, canada, india. These are the classic 1950s nonaligned countries australia. Landscape is ripe for the picking, if you will, to regather up countries that were in a state of ambiguity or greater ambiguity if there was American Leadership to do it. Has been pompeo talking, but even in europe, we just released a report a few days ago. It is a radically different now than it was a few months ago in regard to china. Of the mainh players . Certainly the eu as one of the main players. I think they are very ready to reengage with united state and some posture toward china. Australiafinitely which is in a state of high alienation, and india, very striking to what has happened in a matter of weeks. Moment that is very good for the United States. Seem to be focused on alienating our allies rather than uniting with them. For that answer and i will defer to other members so we can get questions in. Rep. Schiff thank you. Mr. Quigley asked the question i was going to ask. I pass. And my thanks to the panelists. Fascinating, provocative, and forthright. Rep. Schiff thank you. Mr. Welch . Sorry, muting. Can you hear me now . Rep. Schiff yes. Thank you very much. , you talked about the explicit premise that guided our wascy for years and that engage with china, china will change. They happened. Assumption orve the failure of that to materialize, would that be attributable to the current leader of china . Can you hear me . That is a good question. You will can hear me, cant you . Rep. Schiff yes. Was it naive . My own estimation is that it was not naive to presume that with some leadership it was possible and slowly help guide it in a temperate and patient way into some different form. That was the presumption. During the 1980s, there were many reasons to believe that was actually happening and was successful. Then 1989 and the beijing massacre came and you will know what happened. The trip president clinton made to beijing was very striking, to see how president clinton interacted. They were friendly and enjoyed each Others Company and they had reformed a relationship. That was restored. I think it wasnt naive. Changed. Lped i really appreciate that. Thats very helpful. I was interested in all of your testimony. It is thatnderstand the best thing would be to approach countries with him is trying to say how can we help . What a savaged futures and store as a result of covid. Is that the focus . What i would say is that we should balance our approach. It is people who are looking for a lifeline. Now, we dont want to get into a competition about supply chain. To what wasck asked, do we have to begin strategic decoupling to protect ourselves against chinese activity . Thanks for the question. It is a big strategy question. To whether the American People, american businesses, american political leaders want to pay higher costs for everything . Decouple, that is something the u. S. Could start major but it would have a longterm Economic Impact on the United States. There is a reason there is such economic interdependence because it serves the economic interest of u. S. Businesses, u. S. Consumers, and u. S. Workers. So, the question becomes from my perspective, at what cost are we in thisilling to engage economic decoupling . Is it really in the economic interest of the United States . Where there are national , there isisks probably some limited focus, economic decoupling to make sure we dont rely on suppliers in china for Key Technology, key widgets that are necessary for National Security, but beyond want the u. S. To begin to getting involved in shaping International Economics not clear . At is what is it the United States want to accomplish . How was it the decoupling is the right tool as opposed to other tools . Rep. Schiff we will now go to mr. Maloney. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you to the panel for a fascinating discussion. I had an opportunity to be in the region right before the pandemic and one thing that is fascinating is how our partners tend to be shifting in the be exploringem to interesting opportunities with vietnam. Singapore has become increasingly important to us. The philippines tend to be receiving. I had an opportunity to be in. Aiwan and to spend some time she very successfully stood up to an onslaught of efforts by the chinese to undermine her election. Who are our most important partners in the region . Can you say more about taiwan, how much threat you see it being under given what has gone on in hong kong . That 10 tatian that might exist with president xi with the u. S. Instructed by the pandemic . Can you say more about our partners, particularly taiwan . I thick with hong kong as of last night really being moved the peoplesmn of republic of china, then taiwan would be the next, so it is very worrisome, extremely worrisome. I think the South China Sea is also worrisome. You ask who are the logical partners we should pay most attention to . We do have an alliance with korea, japan. That takes some very delicate diplomacy to reaffirm that alliance which is very strong. What do you do about the philippines . It is an alliance partner, but still a deterrent at this time. There are other countries like vietnam, singapore, india that are definitely in play and dont forget australia, and alliance partner. We have some very good allies and partners if we treat them well. China has none. It does not even have a friend except north korea it has treaty obligations with, but that is not much of a friend. There are plenty of resources. The question is does the u. S. Have the leadership capacity and the vision to reweave that willc in such a way that be in our national not . Thank you. Congressman, may i jump in . Please. Just to align with my colleagues comments. He said china does not have any friends. In a sense it is true, but if you look at how other countries assess their interests with regard to china, it is a sea of red and disinterest with the exception of economic oath than it is a column of green across the line with these countries that see china as an important economic art in her. With the United States saying you have to choose between sn china, it is not going to work for these country governments who want to prioritize choice to build Economic Resiliency when they are in such a fragile economic state. I want to quickly go back to congressman swalwells question about the basketball team. Im going to take a slightly different take in then im assuming that japan might be our deputy coach, but i would prioritize countries that are critically important within their region. Some of them may not be fully aligned with u. S. And western interest, but if they do fully aligned with u. S. Economic and western interests, that would certainly be to our benefit. I would definitely include them in that basketball team. India, germany as an individual country if not eu, brazil for latin america, and then for broader asia, indonesia, which is sort of the Sleeping Giant of the region, but certainly one geopolitically that china does quietly Pay Attention to. Nothing ony, we have the scale of the one belt, one road initiative. It is hard not to be impressed by the scope and scale and ambition of that effort. It is alarming how closely tied it is to their Strategic Interests and colocated located with important assets of ours. What should we be doing about that and what would an Effective Response to address that green column you are talking about look like in terms of the United States engaging . Level what we have to engage at . Is it possible, is it necessary . This gets back to my comments that taking a hard look at what our economic strengths are and how we are using our economic strengths to build with our partners abroad. That is a narrative china has been trying to take. Their model doesnt work as efficiently or as well as ours in building shared prosperity and i think we should be focusing on. In terms of the infrastructure, it is critically important, not just from the technical infrastructure, but the Digital Infrastructure and now the trade infrastructure beijing is trying to overlay on it. If you are an emerging market economy in desperate need of funding to build out infrastructure to connect your economy to others and you are underbank, you are going to take the money. But you dont want to only have one choice. You want to have options. Japanese havee been trying to build out their infrastructure offering. I think critical here is rather than say it is a competition between the u. S. And japan versus china, what would really be powerful is to take the example from u. S. Companies currently in china, who are quickly taking steps to diversify their supply chains, but even with all of this talk of decoupling and increasing protectionism, they are not leaving china. They are developing models that would allow them to bridge these worlds to largest economies. And they have already built out a pretty impressive infrastructure system. It is not without fault and not without issue, but we should be china forys to choose a nonchina option, provide Better Options when we can and focus on how our action are viably allowing them to realize the growth they are going to need to serve the needs of their constituents. Thank you. Rep. Schiff thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Can you hear me . Rep. Schiff we can. I want to direct my first as you had talked about, it seems like china is throwing its elbows in the neighborhood. Elbows withng its and on theaiwan border with india. Without taking stuff that would escalate the crisis, what can we do to assist india with regard to productively responding to the situation and more broadly getting china to comply to a rulesbased order . Thank you, congressman. Crisis on the , yourn side of the border saw the u. S. Supporting through diplomatic support. I think they have been appreciated in india, from both the administration, but also for members of congress on both sides of the aisle, which always to india which is concerned about external partners reliability, bipartisan support for these countries facing this kind of pressure from china. There is also an american capability of being seen already being used by india during this crisis. You have seen helicopters india has acquired. Aircraft, not just operating in the maritime zone, but in the territorial area. You have seen them really make a difference. These are the aircraft india is using to supply its troops and i altitude areas. I think in terms of capabilities, you have also seen information sharing increase in these crises. I think the ability for the u. S. To be helpful to india has been enhanced by number of agreements and dialogue mechanisms set up over the last decade or so. I think that the structure in this case, i think it is helpful concerncause there is a that this doesnt become a geopolitical football between the u. S. And china. They have taken the stance of letting india set the pace of asking for that support. I think that is a good idea. I think there are a number of ways, some of which have already happened, i think the other one ive heard, they have shown a desire to be supported. I understand. Im just going to switch topics briefly. Big kindr, one of the of revelations from the recent john bolton book which you may have heard about was that President Trump talked to lightning aut lightening sanctions on cte, which had zte, which had been a bad actor in the communications space. According to bolton, President Trump said he was going to show favor to chairman xi. Onanted to get your reaction how based on your experience the chinese would have viewed this type of offer and how this type of interaction with the chinese would either enhance or the track from u. S. National . Thank you, congressman. Yes, i think what is interesting about that particular exchange is that i believe the president assessed that he could have the same effect by placing sanctions on huawei a year later as a means to pressure china to do more in the negotiations for the trade deal, the phase one trade deal. It actually backfired. So such a transactional approach to our relationship with the worlds secondlargest economy is not helpful. It certainly did not put our current government in the space that thought it would when it tried to use that play again. Thank you. Thank you very much. Rep. Schiff thank you. Ms. Demings. Thank you so much and thank you to everyone with us today. Talked about our open marketbased economy versus chinas state directed Economic System and you said perhaps we should focus not so much on getting china to change its ways , but to rethink what competition actually means. Would you just give us some examples of what you mean by that and couple little deeper for me please . Absolutely and thank you for that question. So this whole focus on changing china and i want to get my other colleagues to weigh in on this as well. Overemphasisg an on our ability to change china when the changes are viewed as an existential issue by beijings leaders. It is going to be remarkably when we areally acting on our own. When we are acting in concert with likeminded allies. They recognize the chinese model comes at risk for the competitiveness of their own models. That is where you will have a much greater chance of changing china. But rather than focus solely on the kind trying to change china, i think specially at a moment when covid is upending our own social and economic fabric, now is the time for us to invest in our own domestic ofewals and Natural Sources competitiveness. This means significant investments across the board in r d and education, infrastructure, and health care. Also readying our workforce to excel in the 21st century post covid. We could also be doing more to support u. S. Companies who will be competing for consumers in those overseas markets and especially those critical emergingmarket that are essential to future growth. Such concentration would switch the u. S. Approach from just rang to change chinas model to viably compete with it. I think there were elements of that in my colleagues comments as well and i would love to hear their thoughts. Thank you, dr. Sumter. One more thing for you. The list you just gave sounds like things we should have been working on proactively in the first place. Covid19 happened, doesnt make it more difficult or provide an opportunity to bring about change . It provides the greatest opportunity. If there is anything we can do to support the work of congress in moving us in that direction, please count me as a ready supporter. And thank you. Thank you. Are there other witnesses who would like to add anything to that statement . Importantng that is the idea ofnote, changing china of course is a bit naive. The first point is to inhibit china from doing things like South China Sea, what it has done in hong kong, what it might do in taiwan, and dont forget the East China Sea will in it is up against japan, a major power in the pacific. It is not a naive issue alone. It is also a question of trying to set some kind of guidelines that china is willing to operate within rather than overthrow the regime as it currently exists in the construct of power in asia. Thank you. Any other witnesses . Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you. mr. Castro. Thank you and thank you to the witnesses for your testimony and insight. China has gotten less to respect full of sovereignty and obviously hong kong that is the case of being less respectful of their autonomy. In terms of autonomy, theyve got more aggressive in the South China Sea. With japan, with india recently. Theyve also gotten less respectful of human rights with respect to what is going on in hong kong now and with the uighurs, who have been basically held in concentration camps. The fundamental challenge of the United States is what do you do with that when we are talking about our largest trading partner . What has been missing for me in the Trump Administration is understanding what our comprehensive strategy is with respect to china. How we allow china to compete, but not cheat on all of these things and that is the question i would pose to you. Considering they do all of these things, they are our largest trading partner and the second largest economy in the world, how do we allow them to compete, but also how do we not allow them to cheat . Congressman castro, why dont i take a crack at that . I couldnt agree with you more in terms of the diversity of challenges china poses in the human rights around. , the unitedremost states is going to have to have a debate and i think congress is a good place to start about what it means to define the u. S. China relationship in terms of strategic competition. Everybody talks about strategic competition. It is a buzzword in washington these days about u. S. Policy, but it really is not a policy, it is just a description of the condition of what exists between the United States and china. The question becomes what combination of unilateral, bilateral, multilateral, and global policies can the administration adopt that begins to specify on what issues and importantly at what cost the lookd states is going to at many of these issues . Is, givenbig china how interdependent we are with china, it is going to be multilateral. The u. S. Is going to have to decide how much it wants to invest in multilateral organizations, both ones that exist and perhaps future ones. Never two, putting together coalitions of the willing, like on issues of the uighurs. Working with existing organizations are building new ones. Then there is the issue of allies, as others have discussed before. There is strength in numbers in international affairs. Aggregation of capability matters. The chinese Pay Attention when there is a chorus of International Voices condemning them for their practices. Aren how interdependent we with them economically, perhaps the u. S. In concert with some of its allies is going to be willing to adopt economic , limitations on investment, so the chinese feel a little bit of pain associated with their policies. That isbalized world becoming more and more multilateral, with organizations facing challenges, there is strength in numbers. The u. S. Is going to have to gamemore of a broader involving building coalitions. I think that is going to be essential Going Forward. You dont see a lot of that from this administration. I think is one of the critical core weaknesses of their china strategy, but i certainly applaud your framing of the challenge. You as a broad impression, which of our allies are willing to take on china . Who is willing to press china as far as you can tell . How willing are our european allies . It depends on the issue. There is no one list of ally for every issue. On South China Sea, there is one. Human rights, there is another. The u. S. Is going to have to get a lot more nimble. The countries that come to mind are the ones that were referenced before. Canada, australia, india, south korea, the eu, but the eu is big and diverse. Look, nobody wants to choose between the United States and china, but also people dont want china to dominate and they dont want chinese values, especially restrictions on ethnic and religious minorities, to prevail globally. Countries are increasingly concerned. The u. S. Needs to play a leadership role. Thank you. One quick final thought. China really cares what the outside world things about it. It particularly cares what the liberal democratic world thinks about it, even though it often seems that it doesnt. This is a point that is noneconomic that makes a great deal of difference to beijing. Thank you. Rep. Schiff thank you. We have a bit more time if our witnesses are willing. I would like to start with pushing back on one of the point that was made. I would love to get your feedback on it, anyone who would care to share their thoughts. The idea that we cant change china. Asppreciate there are limits to our ability to change any other nation. More profound limits in the effort to make nations more like us. Ways we needortant to try to change china. For example, chinas imprisonment in concentration camps. I dont think we can view that as inevitable. You mentioned that. They care what the rest of the world thinks of them. We are in a position, if we show leadership, to impose costs on those human rights violations. I would concur with the sentiment that china views its economy in existentialist terms. It is necessary to its form of role. I dont think that means we cant change china or should stop trying to change chinas theft of intellectual property, unfair trading advantage by subsidizing state run Companies Like wall way to compete in marketbased economies that dont have heavily state subsidized industries. I would like to get your further isughts on what you think within our ability to change in terms of chinas behavior. The best way to approach it. Of theiry concerned export of the digital totalitarian model. They may not care whether other countries adopt their staterun economies. They do seem to be taking steps to help other countries maintain autocratic rule. I would love any of you that would like to share your thoughts on those matters. I would love to come in on this. The history of the u. S. China , the history is clear. The u. S. Itself and in concert with others has been effective in shaping the direction of chinas Foreign Policy and its domestic policy. When it comes to issues of arms control, chinas participation in multilateral organizations, the overall trajectory of theomic reform in china, u. S. Has had a positive effect on shaping chinas behavior. The empirical record is very strong on these points. Going forward, it will be more challenging. Simply because the fact that the party state system that president xi has built is very proud of their compliments. They are increasingly resistant to pressure from the outside, because the chinese economy is bigger and has a more global footprint. They are resistant to pressure from the outside. That makes it more difficult. They also have their own interests. The issue is, how do you connect American Strategies and Global Strategies with shyness chinas own interest . I think chinese choices are shippable. For the United States, it will diversea lot more strategy. ,ncentives, disincentives multilateral, global. America will have to get more patient. The idea that you can adopt a series of sanctions and expect chinese behavior to change in six months is limited. China is a complicated place. They have been effective at consolidating political power. Diversetake a much more strategy to do so. America is capable of that. It will mean rebuilding our credibility in international institutions, rebuilding our alliances, revamping and revitalizing our approach is just reject to Strategic Communication with china. May, if you have been with me in 1975 when i went to china while mao was still alive and had seen the changes since, have moreu would optimism about those ways in which china has changed and the United States has exerted pressure to change it in a constructive way. The real challenge is to be realistic about it. Weve had a profound effect on china. Civil society, government, he you name it. Even in beijing today, if you talk with people who have been educated, theres a tremendous amount of disaffection. We should not lose heart and say we cant change china. We failed, we will always fail. I dont think thats the question. Realism is required. My the tape naivete is arrogant. We have to try. Be modest in our aspirations. , one visible at example of where the u. S. Working with allies can actually have made a difference, this is in terms of the belton road initiative. , australia,he u. S. Japan, india, the eu highlighting the downsides of the projects, the high levels of debt it caused. Also helping third countries, smaller countries like miramar strategize these contracts better. And made thehelped chinese up their game in terms of these projects. Not across the board. They are still problematic in a number of cases. Theyve had to up their game. Few weekst three and months, and in terms of debt restructurings, a number of other countries announced that they were going to forgive debt or restructure. China announced it would do so as well. Think you very much. I would like to align my views with those of my colleagues who have just spoken here. As a former Government Official that served in beijing and saw firsthand how u. S. Diplomacy did cause china to shape its behavior economically and in terms of external policy as well. If we can take a long view of the path to change for china, we should not give up on shaping chinese behavior and showing that there is a halfway a different pathway than what beijing has chosen to take. We need to be Crystal Clear that beijing will act according to its view of the Chinese Communist partys interest. We need to be mindful of that when we are working with our allies to try to get them to steer in a directed direction that is different from beijings. Thank you. Anything further . Question i quick keep noodling on. The interaction between the chinese economy and political system and our political system. Without getting in an argument over exactly what the chinese economy looks like, its that the increase in per capita gdp, the creation of several hundred Million People in the middle class, very well dramatic change. Whenever that happens, the story has always been, as people get money and become middleclass or wealthy, they begin to demand the government be responsive to their needs and desires. They began to demand government accountability. Im not saying the chinese will demand a new england town meeting. Can we expect to see a strategic undercurrent as individual chinese become more middleclass, more wealthy . A strategic undercurrent of demanding some form of less autocratic, more Responsive Government . Or are the chinese is very different . The old presumption used to be that open markets equal open society. When you develop a middleclass, they want to have better housing and more consumer goods. Ultimately, essay in their government. It has not worked out that way. In the case of china, the middle class is quite vibrant and dynamic and large. It is quite conservative. Faustianes made a wager with them. Leave the grinding to us. We will let you go to the mall. It has worked pretty well. Except when things happen and people need to voice grievances, like a pandemic, like many things we are well acquainted with. Its very hard to gauge the level of dissent. Only to conclude by saying the middle class in china is proving to be more conservative than we imagined it would be. More malleable to the parties bidding than before. I completely agree. , why the conundrum middleclass hasnt asked for more. Its important to focus on issues of accountability and efficiency. The communist party has sought to improve the accountability and efficiency. Improving their ability to deliver services to this growing middle class. Thats one of the reasons why the president has made anticorruption such a big part tenure as chinas top leader. Degree, thesome communist party has focused on these questions of accountability and efficiency. Extended tot liberal politics. Whats interesting, its a conundrum. It will be an interesting question to see how it plays out. People growat, as wealthier in china, they become more comfortable with growing, not declining communist Party Control . The next 10 years are going to be important in this regard. The middleclass is getting pretty big. We are talking of hundreds of millions of people. I teach the students of many of these middleclass families at georgetown. Students themselves are grappling with many of these issues. Students atights as georgetown that they dont have going to a Major University in china. I dont think the story is over. Any further questions . Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. Quickly, it does look like this was a global file exam that everyone was given as it relates to covid19 and we have monumentally failed it. The chair pointed out, there no evidence that this virus came from a bio lab. However, does china views the view this, wearing face masks and taking Public Health precautions, do they view this as an opportunity if they want to develop a virus . Is that crazy to think about . They may have stumbled upon a real weakness of the United States, something they could exploit. Thats a hot potato. Thats a difficult one to answer. I think we should never underestimate the degree to which china this is born of a lot of historical sense of inadequacy. Ascendantto regain an position in the world. We see a little of this and russia, too. Ideology isety one of greatness against imperialism cap but capitalism, colonialism, the outside world. Just as clinton is as well. Really can. Hat it i dont predict it will do something as you suggest. It can do some pretty brutal things in the name of gaining its ascendant place in the world again. It feels it is a rightful place. By other great powers over the last century and a half. I would only add that i think if theres one lesson we learned with covid, as distinct from sars or avian flu, is how interconnected the world this and how quickly these things travel. Im no microbiologist. Its not clear how you would develop a biological weapon that you could keep contained in one particular location without triggering a pandemic that would hurt your own country. Regardless of how bad the grievance is. The chinese understand that quite well. Mr. Welch . Thank you very much. Weve been talking about the contradictions of china. [inaudible] in the last president ial campaign, President Trump and sanders made a huge case about how the trade deal with china has been extraordinarily harmful to the average working american salary. Addressed. T been one of the goals that president obama had was the Transpacific Partnership based on trying to establish more Foreign Policy with the region. , how do we address that domestically . I think its necessary in order to do that, in order for a president to have some support for a certain policy with china. Theres a tremendous opportunity here if theres a new administration. I wonder, in the waning months of the Trump Administration, what can be done . [inaudible] kind really do need some of a major reckoning, a new effort to see if we cant win out with china. Those areas where we might be able to corroborate, even as we get into a more antagonistic relationship in other areas. In the coldnion war, there are some very modest examples here that might help us. Rubbish stablea relationship with russia. We worked things out. We got things done. Smallpox, the helsinki accords, things like that. We just dont have any of that musculature with china right now. Its needed. Any other witnesses want to weigh in on this . In terms of your question with regard to what we should be doing with the trade pacts before us and the mind towards american workers, i would highly help that the next Administration Takes a serious await to cpt tipi rejoin as a means of reinforcing the market based processes and practices and values that are critical to our own competitiveness here at home, as well as abroad. China is looking very closely at the makeup of that tray pack. It is constructed in a way in it was the first instance of having regulation on the Digital Economy. As you begin to watch the success of this pack and the value of the trade of goods and services that will now go between these economies, that being part of that Value Creation is going to hurt u. S. Companies and u. S. Workers here at home. Issue, wef the wage need to focus on scaling up our workforce to produce goods and services that give the u. S. A comparative advantage as a 21st century economy. Making sure that their worth is valued with minimum wages. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you very much. Thank you. Votes have been called. Whoave three more members are still on the line with us. If any of you have remaining questions, pose them together and our panel could wrap up with their conclusion to any of the questions that you may have. Other questions, ask them now. I was curious, following up on the issue of linkage. Being able to get things done amid the convocations. Would it beea, possible to engage with china in a cooperative way to reach some sort of acceptable situation with the north Korean Nuclear program, even amid all these other tensions . Does that cooperation depend on lessening the tension in other areas . Will it be possible to walk and chew gum with north korea . Any last questions for the group . What would be the number one thing [inaudible] in dealing with china in the first 100 days . Mr. Mings . I have no questions. Thank you. If our panel could address the north korea question as well as advice to give the next on what theyn should try to accomplish in the first 100 days. Ill take both. With china and north korea, in my experience from my time with obama, the u. S. And chana cant walk and two gum at the same time. One of the unit unique features is the chinese willingness to compartmentalize certain issues. The challenge that we face from north korea is that our interests are not perfectly aligned with the chinese interests. Willing to are settle with a stable north korea that has Nuclear Capability as long as that north korea is basically abiding with china. We could go back to talks with the chinese on north korea. It would be very difficult to a, with anything substantial at this stage. As long as north korea is not conducting provocative activities, the chinese are willing to live with that, albeit reluctantly. Regarding the question about the first 100 days, i would have two recommendations. Launch a domestic revitalization initiative. The single greatest step that america could take to signal to china and American Allies in asia that the United States has the wherewithal to compete for china over the longterm is investment at home. That would fundamentally reshape international calculation about american resolve and american capability. I would launch an initiative about the embracing American Allies. Getting back to the basics. Rebuilding that Alliance Framework in europe, in asiapacific. Dont make it about china. Learn the applications for them. Those are the two best places. Thank you very much. I would agree. Lets begin at home. Our example is our best medicine. In a cryptic way, if the be followed by an economic downturn of some real consequence. This may be the thing that bens china and makes it more willing to concede, accommodate, to get together and work things out. Short of that, it will be very difficult. I would lend my support to the remarks. My wish list items were that domestic revitalization program andriy engaging the International Community as a global leader. Thank you. Thank you. Do you want the last word of the hearing . Strengthen the u. S. And strengthen the network of allies and partners. Pretty much what my colleagues have said. Terrific. Thank you so much to our incredible witnesses. What a broad range of experience and knowledge you have brought to our committee. We are very grateful. Continued success in your work. I hope you stay healthy. Thank you to our members for joining. Thank you to the public for tuning in. This concludes our hearing. Adjourned. Thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] during the summer months, reach out to your elected officials with cspans congressional directory. 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