I dont like to promise anything or congratulate anybody too early, so well have to see if things hold. But im pretty impressed where things are now. But everyones lives have been thrown up in the air. Im being interviewed from my bedroom. Yesterday i was in the nursery and i did a press conference from the girls basement where all the toys are. Everyone is facing trouble. And more people are having more circumstances more difficult than i do. So were all living through this together. Is this a permanent change in our lives . Well, i dont know about that. I have to defer to some of the health experts. But in terms of some of the issues, some of the workfromhome issues, certainly conferences being done through this medium is more likely to increase over time. I wouldnt say this is the new normal but its a lot more this way than returning to the old style, in my opinion. And if this is a continuing trend, whats the f. C. C. s role in this . Well, it depends on what service were talking about. But i mean, just from a more practical sense, we have a big new building were building and that were getting ready to move into. And its use is going to be much different than the past. We did an open meeting yesterday via this technology that were able to use, video conferencing, and it went pretty smoothly. You start to venture out and wonder, how much do you have to be physically in the f. C. C. , and what does it mean for policy in general Going Forward . We certainly have a role in a lot of these issues. Making sure the consumers are protected, making sure the networks are running well. But some of the pieces, depending on what were talking about are outside our bailiwick. Theres fine lines there. Margaret oh host lets bring Margaret Mcgill into this conversation. Margaret thanks, peter. Thanks, commissioner. The f. C. C. Launched a keep americans connected pledge a few months ago with the idea being that broadband providers would promise not to cut off americans who cant pay for their Internet Service because of the coronavirus pandemic. That pledge expires june 30. Do you think the f. C. C. Needs to extend it . Well, i defer to the chairman. He worked hard to get it established. I understand its over 700 companies have agreed to the pledge. And they lived through it through a couple months. I have heard from some parties that it is becoming very difficult on the revenue side for them to hold the pledge Going Forward. Well just have to see. Ill take my cues from the chairman and his program. And where he wants to go with it. Im certainly mindful what it means for americans facing difficulties Going Forward. There is the tension of, how long can you stretch the inevitability . The back fees, do they get exonerated, do they get lost . Were not just talking about penalty fees. Were talking about the actual rates themselves. Is that money not going to be collected Going Forward . Are we talking about a situation of two more months or 18 months . Those things all matter but ill take my cues from the chairman on this one. Margaret have you been able to track how effective the pledge has been in terms of customers that are staying online or new customers that are being signed up . Im curious what kind of difference this pledge has made. In fairness, i dont have a lot of data points that i normally would in a regular setting. I have had a lot of anecdotal evidence suggesting its been very beneficial. You see the connectivity issues that americans are facing in their daily lives, on the entertainment side and also on the business side. Weve had really good successes in terms of people reaching out. Ive also had some complaints in terms of the pledge and thats something that the chairman, im sure will defer to the Enforcement Bureau as needed to see if theyre living up to their commitments that they made to the commission and public at large. This is an opportunity to, you know at some point, there will be Lessons Learned of how this worked, whether there are ways we could have made it work more efficiently. But were struggling through this as everyone else is at this time. Margaret what kind of complaints have you heard . I think people are just they said theyve been turned off unexpectedly. This carrier did this or this provider did that. Its not infrequent to have emails to my account on some of those some of those turn into legitimate issues. Others turn out not to be. There was some other problem with why they got disconnected. It wasnt a billing issue. It was a network issue. So finding out facts really does matter Going Forward. Well just have to see if anything materializes there. Margaret i guess kind of on the complaint front, do you think that the f. C. C. Needs to change at all how its tracking complaints or how effective the pledge has been . It sounds like its mostly anecdotal. Do you think there should be more transparency, perhaps a database of some sort . Im more at the anecdotal level than i would be if i were at my office, able to talk to the Commission Staff on a regular basis. Everyone is scattered throughout the washington, d. C. Region. We have folks from gettysburg that do a lot of the complaints there and handle some of the complaint process. That is different than normal. Im getting some of that anecdotally and im sure the chairman has a much higher, more efficient mechanism and is able to rely on the data from the different folks. Ive tried to, best as possible, let staff do the hard work thats been asked of them. But then also try to leave them alone a little bit. Everyones got other issues. Ive got child care issues as you can imagine that monopolize my time. Its balancing life and work at the same time. So ive tried to be more respectful, if i can, but these arent issues that are going to go away. There are things that we need to look at. Certainly things will be from Lessons Learned, whenever we get to a more stable point. Host commissioner orielly, has the covid19 crisis put more urgency into developing 5g . Yeah. Yes and no. Weve already had a very aggressive interest and schedule and agenda to deploy 5g and provide the environment for private carriers to extend their networks and build out the new revolutionary, you know, what were expecting from 5g when it fully matures. So there is the the expectations are there. Same thing on the fiber side. And on a bigger perspective, it does highlight the importance of broadband. Ive been critiqued in terms of my views toward broadband. Ive always said its incredibly vital to individuals. I havent been willing to do the word necessity but ive said so much more, about how and i spent so much time trying and working hard to get broadband out to all americans. 5g, the wireless what i refer to as wireless fiber, some refer wireless broadband that is going to be a part of our solution Going Forward, in my mind. There is the idea of getting fiber to everyones home. Not probably in the cards. So wireless is going to play a heavy role, whether its fixed, mobile or everything in between. Host thomas johnson, the General Council at the federal Communications Commission recently had an oped in the Washington Post about 5g, the headline 5g conspiracy theories threaten u. S. Recovery. Whats the genesis of this story . Comm. Orielly well, i havent talked to tom, you know. But i think that the genesis comes from a number of individuals who have likened 5g to a number of Health Concerns that just arent realistic or accurate. The boogeyman of what they think may come from 5g are the same ones we heard on 4g and 3g and everything before that. This does not surprise me. Theres a group of folks in america and worldwide who shun technology and believe that there are nefarious purposes from what is being deployed at the latest time. We have to be cognizant of that. Weve been very mindful of Health Issues at the commission. I worked hard to get a couple items up for voting so we could have 5g deployed and dealing with the radio frequency issues, the Health Issues. So i think that it is something that is going to be beneficial to americans and its within the Health Standards from the experts, which we at the which we are not at the f. C. C. We rely on policy experts at a number of health agencies. Thats, in a very respectful way, im sorry that some individuals have a totally different perspective. And their activity and some of the threat that they laid is problematic. Id like to believe that were able to debate these issues out in a thoughtful way versus some of the rhetoric ive seen but well just have to play it out. Host given the fact that broadband has become so vital to many americans, especially in the last couple of months, is there a chance that broadband will be considered a utility . Comm. Orielly i dont see that in the cards in the near future. You know, it always depends on what the Political Landscape looks like in washington, d. C. You know, when you say utility, theres a lot of different meaningings that go with it. Is it someone that wants to regulate the rates, someone that wants to mandate there only be one provider . In many communities, theres many existing providers and its competition that drives down price. I dont know exactly what that word means but if were heading towards a Power Company or water company, i think we surpassed that and moved past that, for most of americans. There are certainly places where one provider, you know, is the best we can get and we work hard to subsidize a number of those areas so we can at least have somebody to serve those areas that dont have access. Today thats one of my Top Priorities during my time at the commission. So i dont believe were heading in that universe. I think the market is much more resilient and responsive. Thats why you see the benefits i talked about earlier in terms of how our network has handled the traffic, the increases and how its been diverse traffic. Used to be in urban centers, because we many of us went to our jobs downtown. Now, you know, were finding the traffic being distributed in different places. And the networks have been able to handle all the increases in traffic overall. So thats very respectful and appreciated. In my opinion for all of the work that we have done at the commission. Not just the issue of Net Neutrality but it is a 10year effort to make sure that good policy was enacted. And did not stifle innovation. There were hiccups along the way. But most general compared to other nations, were in a much better situation, in my opinion. Host Margaret Harding mcgill. Margaret on the performance of the networks, we have heard from Broadband Companies and from their trade groups that their networks are performing well. What kind of work is the f. C. C. Doing to validate that, to investigate on its own how networks are performing . Comm. Orielly we have a whole team that looks at these issues and well, im sure, have a number of reports as we go forward, as we examine Lessons Learned and what does this mean and how those performance numbers have looked like. What ive heard from the chairman have been pretty positive data points in terms of what the network has responded to, all the increases. I think thats a testament to how well weve been willing to have good policy lead to investment in the united states. And that should be a feather in our cap compares to other compared to other nations around the world. Margaret regardless of the performance, one big issue has been, as peter mentioned, people who dont have access to broadband. Thats especially important for parents whose children now need to do their schoolwork virtually. Given that schools might be relying on some kind of remote schoolwork in the fall, what can the f. C. C. Do in the coming months to ensure that children have the access and the devices they need to do school from home . Comm. Orielly well, its a huge issue. It starts from not just education but how do we get broadband to those areas that are toughest served . That those that want it can actually have broadband. Thats been what my focus has been in terms of broadband performance. Some want to spend their time on affordability, some want to spend it on the number of competitors. Im trying to focus on those who are still relying on dialup. Weve done some really good work on that. It is going to take us some time. It is not easy slogging to get to the hardest parts of our nation. But there are limitations on what the f. C. C. Can do, on the statutes that exist today and then the funding. How much funding do we have and what does it mean . I certainly appreciate some of the turn and the debate over Education Funding for technology. And a number of providers in the past, a number of the advocates have shifted from it has to be fiber. You know, wireless is very important. Its something i pushed for a long while. Wireless is part of this big problem a solution. I appreciate that that debate is maturing as i expected it once would. But it is a heavy lift between now and the fall, to be able to stand up to schools that may not open or that we face a second wave. Im very mindful of that. And like i said we have some , limitations on what we can do at the commission. I know well be continuing to work on this in the months ahead. Margaret the commission does have a program to fund broadband connections. Theres been some discussion about, could that money be used to make sure that students can connect from home . Do you think thats something that the f. C. C. Should explore, and if not, what concrete actions can be done in the next two months before School Starts back up again . Comm. Orielly well, i think thats an issue for congress to decide and consider, because the statute is quite limiting. It actually references something i worked on when i was a little bit younger. It actually says classrooms. If we start to view every persons home notwithstanding our experiences as a classroom, that means there are no limitations to classroom. No limitations to the statue. Its not what congress intended at the time. It may be they want to go there now. Thats certainly their option. They had the debate. They can appropriate money. They can do all the things that i used to recommend when i worked there for many years. Thats something they need to consider. Its something i cant overlook, because i may agree or disagree with a policy decision that someone would like to make. You cant just ignore the statute. Thats not how it works in my business. Margaret it sounds like you want to see some action from congress and maybe theres not a ton that the f. C. C. Can do in these next few months . Comm. Orielly well, im not advocating that congress do something. I think thats up to them. They are the elected representatives of the people of america. I dont try to tell them what to do. I try to have the responsibility. Its the opposite. They tell me what to do. I think our hands are tied in some regards. There are some limitations. And the chairman has been very flexible on a number of different covid policy changes that weve done in the last few months but there are limitations that we face and whether Congress Changes those or not are certainly up to them. Host commissioner orielly, could you please explain section 230 of the Communications Act . And what the president has signed as an executive order and your view on that . Comm. Orielly well, i dont think i can fully go through that in the time that we have for this program. But it is a legal liability standard, statute created in the 1996 act that governs, you know, the activity online. Those that offer services and those that benefit from the services. And from the mom and pop shops that put up a website to the big provider that you can imagine. It provides them certainty in terms of their liability over what is said over the network or what is portrayed. Then that is something thats been a hallmark for 25 years. The executive order you reference comes from the president ive had an opportunity to read it a couple times. I sympathize with his point in terms of ive made the argument, both, you know, here and elsewhere, that the president has the full right to review any statute as part of his, you know, obligation to proposed obligation to propose changes. And that was part of my old job, was the president proposes and the congress disposes. That was his right to examine any statute to see if its being abused. I think thats completely consistent. I have been concerned, as a conservative, that my fellow conservatives have been stifled or their words are being limited on certain tech platforms. I think thats pretty problematic. There are both outstanding data points and anecdotal evidence. And anecdotal evidence for that to be the case. It doesnt mean its not happening on the other side of the aisle as well, but definitely conservatives, its fresh in their mind and happening pretty regularly from my conversations with folks. So thats problematic. To what we do about that is a different story. That gets into the issue that ive had concerns about. You know, what are the limitations in the statute . Did congress provide us authorities to act, for what the president has asked for, or is it intentional authority, or was it accidental authority, or there is no authority . Thats something really important. What the president would like to see happen is for the f. C. C. To define certain components of the 230 statute, whats the scope and how its being handled and whether we can provide the appropriate limitations if necessary. And i think we have to start with, you know, its jurisdiction. Then First Amendment. And then you get into, what are the paths of the First Amendment if we go down this route . What would happen if we did x, y or z and what does it mean for the future of the internet and communications, Digital Communications and i. P. Traffic . Im mindful of all that. I havent taken a position, because i have to do my homework. I think thats what people expect of a regulator, someone who has a history of doing the heavy lifting on policy, digging themselves into the weeds, someone who has a background of writing statutes. Thats what you expect from me and thats what im doing right now. I give my concerns upfront and now im in the process of conducting the heavy lifting and talking to some really knowledgeable people here. I want to reach out to those that actually wrote the statute and those that are continuing to weigh in on the matter. Host your democratic colleague on the commission, jessica rosenwersal, said that an executive order that would turn the federal Communications Commission into the president s Speech Police is not the answer. Comm. Orielly well, her comment, i would agree with. I dont know if this does that. That is what im saying. Im going to do the heavy lifting before making a comment such as that or try and make an assertion such as that. If that were the effect, then i would i can see her point. I dont think that we can make that assertion now. I dont think that anyone can rightfully, especially since we dont have a recommendation from the administration through ntiaa, of actually what the petition would look like. I will certainly advocate to the chairman, whenever if so comes forward, whatever document comes forward, that we put it out for Public Notice and let all comers take shots and applaud what they see is appropriate in the document. From there, we can see if theres something we should do or not do and well explore all the thorny issues that are so important in our democracy. Oft Margaret Harding mcgill axios . Margaret well, one issue thats come up with the executive order is whether the f. C. C. Has any authority in this area to enforce or regulate or decline section 230. You have a lot of experience on the hill. Do you believe congress intended to give the f. C. C. Authority here . Comm. Orielly i think thats what i just made the point of. Whether they intentionally gave us authority or accidentally gave us authority. Thats what im exploring and i want to talk to some really knowledgeable people about the matter, because my memory i was there when a number of these deals were struck. Its funny. I can remember some of those conversations better than i can the conversation i had, you know, yesterday with my wife. And i remember the votes we had on some of these things in the basement of the capitol, in the conference negotiations with my old boss and the house managers, who had a different opinion than the Senate Managers when we went to conference on the bill. My memory is pretty good on those things. Im not sure that they i have deep reservations that they provided any intentional authority for this matter but i want to listen to people. I want to see if other memories are different from mine. There werent many people in the room. Some are no longer with us. Others have moved on. And maybe not focused on this matter. I want to hear from those that have a voice on the matter, see if my memory is right. But there is that other piece, that is sometimes the language isnt as clear as it should be and it provides an opportunity for the commission to act, given its general authority. And id said this in the past. Ive given speeches on this as a matter of fact. Congress does itself better justice if it writes tighter statutes. And some of these things, you know, ive been through the sausage making process. Its a very difficult one. Theres a lot of tradeoffs. Sometimes language isnt as tight as you would like it. At one time or another. And i respect that. So thats why im gonna, you know, do Due Diligence on the statute itself for jurisdictional issues. I do not believe its the right of the agency to read into the statute authority that is not there, authority that, you know, in terms of intention, there arent a lot of people there still serving in congress. Weve got to play all those cards out. I think part of that will be putting this out for comment and seeing what the experts not only congress and in d. C. But throughout. There will be a lot of academia, im sure, that will have viewpoints as well. Margaret well, the jurisdiction question is obviously an important one. But theres also the philosophical question of what the f. C. C. s role should be here. You have been a strong and vocal supporter of the First Amendment. Do you believe that the f. C. C. Should be involved or regulating or defining what Online Platforms like facebook and twitter do when it comes to moderating their content . Comm. Orielly well, in general, i believe that section 230 has functioned as intended and therefore has been incredibly beneficial. But could congress or the f. C. C. Put guardrails on it and narrow it to make it more functional and provide some of the wide open opportunities and some of the abuses we may be seeing in the marketplace . I certainly thats certainly thing to explore. Thats something, what you expect from a wide open debate were about to have. I think theres both parts. It has been very beneficial. Could it be improved . I think there are certainly sound arguments for that. Is it my responsibility or congresss or some other agency . Those debates will have to be had in the coming months. Margaret i think that gets to the the fcc commissioner made how do you draw that line and narrowing the scope of what protections provide . Comm. Orielly i think i just said you can put guardrails if necessary. I will put guardrails on 230, and that could be for congress to decide who they would like to see that happen. You can set up different structures. I worked for nearly 20 years you can have it at the agency itself such as they fcc. If you solve the jurisdictional issues. Or you can set up and require private boards to look at these things. There are different ideas if people want to go down these paths. I am not saying we should, but there are different options if that is necessary in the debate plays out. Host i apologize. we are out of time. I wanted to get to the commissioner, you are being renominated next week. Would that be for another fiveyear term, and easy landmines . Comm. Orielly i have been renominated. It is part of the confirmation process. I am grateful to the committee for holding that hearing. There are always land mines in any nominating process. It is a tough process. I lived through it as a staffer. We will have to see if it plays out. If it is meant to be, it is meant to be and if not, i will go find Something Else to do. 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