Transcripts For CSPAN HUD Secretary Carson Testifies On Oversight Of Housing Regulations 20240712

Two hours. This hearing will come to order. Been aring room has configured to maintain the recommended sixfoot social distancing between senators, and other individuals in the room necessary to operate kept aring, which we have it a minimum. This will be a hybrid hearing. Be present andll witnesses are hear in person and coming in by videoconference. Once you startne slight there will be a display before you are on the screen if you are coming in remotely. To minimize background noise button until your time to speak. If there is any Technology Issue senatormove to the next until it is resolved. I remind all senators and itnesses that the five machine clock still applies. Should all have a box on your those are operating remotely that is labeled clock remaining. Ime at 30 seconds i will try to the gavelo gently tap to remind senators their time is expiring. Speaking order process support brown and you i agreed to go but seniority. E welcome our federal housing regulators the honorable benjamin s. Carson secretary of urban development a. Colabria. Welcome back to both of you. We will receive testimony on your agencys recent activities, operation and to promote access to quality Affordable Housing and nsuring the safety and soundness of the Housing Finance market. Our agencies missions have never been more critical. The disruption of covid19 on economy has hit homeowners and Housing Market especially hard. A huge already seen number of mortgage borrowers forbearance and many landlords struggle to make ends sure nd renters are not they can make the next payment. Fhfa acted. D. And to prohibit foreclosures for facing hardship due to the pandemic. The after Congress Passed coronavirus aid relief and carries security act or act codifying and extending protections and providing renters. Relief to title four of the cars act has three housing provisions. Ne has a 60 day eviction and foreclosure more form for sell family borrowers. And allows struggling homeowners up to one year of loan forbearance. Section 402. 3 has similar relief current on the mortgage payments and they can request up to 90 days as long as they do ot esrbgt a tenant or charge late fees solely for nonpayment of rent. A 120 day moratorium an evictions, fees and penalties in tenants who live multifamily units that participate in a federal or have a Program Government backed mortgage. Itle 12 of the cares act provides 12. 4 billion of emergency supplemental h. U. D. Programs and activities to further soften of the omic when pandemic over the many serves. Ies h. U. D. H. U. D. And f. H. F. A. Took actions protect borrowers and Mortgage Serviceers during the pan deem. Both have extended the eviction and moratorium through end of june for qualified homeowners and taken steps to not facing wers are large looming debt payments. He director reiterated borrowers in fore banners with a freddie mac wont a a lump sum and they have new payment deferred option with borrowers who are able to return normal monthly mortgage payment the ability to repay the missed payments at the home is sold or refinanced or at maturity. H. U. D. Implemented the national. Mergency partial claim hich allows eligible f. H. A. Borrowers in forbearance to reinstate their loans by to advance servicers funds on their behalf like fhfa of missed payments is deferred until the back end of the loan. Undue burden the the cspan democrat has placed n the Mortgage Servicing industry hurd and hffa acted liquid to address the ity gap with the pass through allows ce program which servicers to apply for assist in and interest al fhha said they wont be responsible for advancing more than for months interest incipal and on a honor. While america is taking steps to eturn to work the recovery is only just beginning. Their our witnesses for swift and prudent action and collaboration. This committee is focused on orking with h. U. D. And fhfa to identify and tailor overly burden son regulations to create conditions that will lead to a forceful economic recovery. Aapplaud you son, for spearheading the efforts to identify and eliminate to latory barriers Affordable Housing production. His will play a big part in bringing about a stronger, quicker economic rebound. Pandemic has underscored the need for a housing ll capitalized market. Fhfa took up a crucial step safety and soundness in proposing a thorough taufrl regulatory capital framework for mac. Y me and freddie it is long past time to make the ard decisions and address this last unfinished best of the 2008 financial crisis. Director, thanks you for your considerable efforts here. Look forward to or tend Work Together on this topic. Thank you both again for joining us today. Senator brown. Nsenator brown, ave you got your mute button on . I think we are going to try to and fix itator brown technical problem. Senator brown aimed told senator brown is speaking and being broadcast but we can not get the signal here. I apologize that you may not introductory remarks before i go to your testimony. Your department refers to do its job of promoting economic historic government driven partners of housing iscrimination like redlining and restrictive covets. Abandon the Legal Standard used to bringing housing discrimination lawsuits. That is not my opinion. Letter after letter opposing your action and both are pushing actions plans that will make Home Ownership more expensive, harder get particularly for borrowers of color. When the at happens ideologues in this Administration Push wall of what agenda instead regular people need. Efore there pandemic hit families of color were spending more income on housing than more likely to experience homelessness. Failure toled by the protect black, brown and from despiterowers knowing they were targeting them. Years of gain in eviscerated. Now they are experiencing this the s with just one10th wealth of white families and more likely to work at jobs employers corporate didnt pay them enough to begin with. Repeating the mistakes of a decade ago. Many are unlikely to make the next payment. Half of them unable to make the next payment. We are in the middle of a crisis dont know, r mr. Secretary, you dont know or you dont care. You are plowing ahead with undoing civil rights protection cross the country hey are opening eviction courts. Some can pay only because we assed emergency unemployment insuran insurance. It is set to expire at the end and ly and President Trump mcconnell refuse to extend it. It is part of republican lead s leaders efforts to undermine weaken this social insurance,en Employment Benefits that all of us pay into. Mcconnell and trump see no urgency. Hose are his words to help people. Democrats have plans to get more help to working families. Rental assistance bill price to help with rent and utility to help them avoid imposting imposting impost choices. The house an sits in the majority leaders desk. Millions of families the ticking. E and clock before this pandemic President Trump and his wealthy cabinet or didntdnt realize care that behind the rosie stock data the economy was manyn for millions and for it didnt work for them to begin with. Now the Trump Administration doesnt realize or care that the is falling out for these families. People in this country and every of our states in hawaii and rhode and minnesota and island and ohio and idaho. They are tired of the lack of action. Pandemic the Trump Administrations idea of housing playing s to level the field for wall street. That is the definition of out of touch. Is enough. We want to hear that you both the magnitude of he Current Crisis and the inequities built into our housing. It is time you are going to do to fix it instead of making it worse. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Brown. Nk you, senator adjust. Ait until at the i think we are getting there. We will now move to our secretary carson, begin first . Chairman. You, Ranking Member brown. Am glad i didnt hear most of what you had to say. The opportunity to discuss steps the housing and youre ban Vice President is maximize our response to the cooperate national emergency. Hese actions reflect both my work with the White House Coronavirus task force and the at h. U. D. To oped protect the health and safety of the american public. I want to recognize the nprecedented healthcare and economic challenges facing americans today. His disease is impacting families and communities across the nation. S h. U. D. Secretary my highest priority is to ensure americans and safe their homes guard those at greatest risk of including homeless and low income communities. I want to thank our medical professionals and first line sacrificed ho have so much to keep americans safe and healthy. Im inspireddoctor ring their inwaveer ing unwavering commitment. March 20 the cares act 12 billion than in funding to h. U. D. Programs. Unprecedented ature of the pandemic i directed my staff to begin the process of getting the funds to impacted by ost covid19. S of today, h. U. D. Has announced allocations for over in funding. This includes 3 billion in cdbg e. S. G. Andn billion some for the Public Housing 380 million for tenant based rental assistance, in project based rental assistance, 200 million ihbg funds indian housing block grants. 811 illion for the section voucher m housing 65 for hopwa. They will continue to expedite the funding providing by the carries act into the hands of communities. To the passage of the ares act f. H. A. Acted quickly to help protect Single Family omeowners who lost their jobs or were experiencing check hardship as a result of covid19 60 day menting a moratorium on foreclosures and was subsequently extended through june 30. Provided 120 day viction who are storm for tenants in certain federalry supported rental properties f. H. A. Ensured mortgages. They further announced a set of port Payment Relief options for sell family f. H. A. Ensured mortgages who are experiencing hardship because of the pandemic including cares act orbearance which allows borrowers to request up to six months of forbearance and extend for up to six mondays. Also was an extension period for calling a loan due for those with a home equity conversion mortgage. F. H. A. Implemented covid19 alone l emergency stand partial claim for borrowers on fore baines. The that will help them resume ortgage payments and avoid a lump sum repayment of eye rears to end. Ing repayment generally mae expanded the Pass Assistance Program it appen address potential issuer locked i lockedity caused by the requirements implemented by programs. Other last resort s financing to cover the difference 2010 issuers valuable scheduled payment of principal and interest to Mortgage Backed security holders. Timely payment of pand i to holders backed consistent with jenny mae essentialguarantee is to the liquidity of the m. B. S. Arket and confidence of investors who finance housing through jenny mae programs. President of 2018 trump signed executive order the white lishing house opportunity and council. Ation i have had the honor of chairing it. Nd in response to the jung pwhrebl pandemic President Trump has directed me and the council use its talented structure and build on its original intent renewed focus to expand efforts to protect and promote communities. Rable pworblg work to ensure under served groups are protected. In the come welcomes the council will identify different poles help advance d to opportunity for them. Hanks to the leadership of President Trump im proud of the work this entire administration especially the 7,500 employees of h. U. D. Are doing fight this invisible enemy and meet the needs of people. Im grateful to this committee for its bipartisan commitment. You. Carson. K you, second director. Thank you member brown turn your mic on. Chairman and senator brown invitation to he appear. Cooped me thank you for the words at the beginning and make it clear there is not a system we have ht protection olled back during my time any assertions are false. Fhfa e acted swiftly at and prioritized borrowers and enters in the Housing Market from day one of the we worked in lose person with f. H. A. And jenny mae and i want to thank ecretary carson, second montgome phopbgd. I want to thank the employees of f. H. A. They are our greatest asset and wellbeing has been my top priority. Our teleworking have mcnabbed mcat home o obligations appear fulfilling the mission. To fosterso continued and environment where everyone fhfa was safe, respected and valued for differences. He unrest in the nation reaffirms the fairness and nclusion the correspond values and or agency. We have one of the most diverse in regulatory agencies and it is a key source of success. During it crisis americans houldnt have to wore about losing homes. We have work with or regulated entities to support borrowers renters while ensuring the proper functions of the mortgage arket during and after it crisis. Or actions have been and continue to be data driven. I will discuss apply to mortgages backed by Fannie Freddie mac. Home owners facing foreclosure before covid19 we uspended all fors an evictions through at least june 30. We will extend that date if necessary. Borrowers financially impacted by kwaoepbt we allowed timeout s to take a from mortgage payments through or pwaeurps and announced borrowers in fore banners could return to make Monthly Payments repay what they miss we at the sell the home or refinance. Who canemphasized those make payments should continue doing so. Enterprise th an backed mortgage about onethird make payments. Last month we directed them to current. Ch borrowers as to spo rent eers support renter multifamily Forbearance Program and mportantly we mandated tenant can not be evicted for the n onpayment rent during fore pwaefrpbts the enterprise created online look up tools to determine if they are eligible for eviction protection. Clarify options and updated the scripts at the borrowers and to emphasized the servicers and lump sum is to required at the end of fore anners and we participated to launch the borrow Protection Program and develop a website to skate information about mortgage relief option and we taken anxious to support the proper function of the port that we ensure authorized several clone closing employment verification under tphblt through june 30. We instituted a fourmonth limit serviceer obligations to dvance principaled on loans in forbearance to provide stability and clarity. O support lenders liquidity we enabled them to purchase system fore mortgages in pwaerps. Prior to this they had never purchased mortgages in fore barns. Provides a new option to lenders and enterprises. Fhna has done at to deal with the crisis. T this point as referenced in my wren testimony im encouraged what they tell us about the arket and capacity of serviceers and fore banners rates but this is not meaning all is well. Evidence of the critical vulnerability in the mortgage system that put taxpaye taxpayers, borrowers and Housing Market at ring. Fanny and freddie defend gallon to against a downturn. A stronger hem foundation on which to weather periods of financial distress on may 20fhfa 9 a rule to let them safe and sound to fulfill the sister across the economic cycle. It is essentially to build a strong resilient Housing Finance that supports sustainable i aform Home Ownership but should emphasize only congress can enact the reforms necessary in ix the structural flaws our system. To that end mechanics weekle to it the a. M. Report congress that includes several legislative recommendations reform is long overdue. Strengthen i strengthening fhfa regulatory to be on par y with others have will ensure regulate be week ago and capitalized. I look ford to the opportunity hear your questions. Thank you for the opportunity to be her. You, director. I look forward to your recommendations for resolution of our housing system. My first question will be to both of you. And ess acted boldly aggressively in the cares act to get renters and homeowners through this crisis including extending forbearance, and fors g evictions over a broad portion of the market. Your ks later from perspective could you tell me the ould you characterize current state of Housing Market and what are some of the policy asdeoffs we need to consider we move forward toward the next covid19 response . Secretary carson, you want to go first . Yes. A very serious time period that we are in. We h was the reason for cted so quickly in conjunction with this committee and other portions of government. A person is retired about their health, the health the last thing they need to be worried about is whether they will lose their and quickly enacting the. Orbearance for home owners you mentioned the partial claim is interestfree by the way payments are tacked on to of the mortgage. Fore are a host of our barns measures tan. All of these have had a very positive,packet so that things have not level that to the most people thought they would. E are still not resting on think laurels. We will being vigilant in. Ooking at the market everybody, i think, was tan by last months report. Decline ed a 22 deep but instead had a. increase. Things e interesting going on and it spooks to the impact of the interventions that also to the e but resilience of American People do whatr willingness to it takes. 90 , have ers, over tend to be able to pay their rent. It is really quite impressive what the American People are able to do. We have to recognize that the nderlying economic infrastructure of this nation is very strong. Shp andjust on a rocket then this coronavirus came along we intentionally had to stop the economy. But remember, that underlying factors that created that strong there. Are obstetrical are still there. Do what we have attempted to is wrinkle the gap so we dont have to start all offense again resume the ust upward trend for everyone. Doctor. Let me start with the fore numbers the most recent numbers are about 6. 6 and we over the last few weeks those numbers start to stab stablize. In the g. S. C. Port you see almost as many borrowers the Forbearance Programs as rolling on. Going two rned both may and june we would see spikes and wefore banners rates did not. I think we have seen a as was mentioned about a third of the borrowers west a ke the payments real positive. Clearly the biggest problems facing the economy Going Forward which ultimately impact the Housing Market is employment. The most important thing we can do is put people back to work. Primary hat is the folk. Let me lastly say that i ertainly over the last few month have been considered about what the direction of the handou Housing Market would be out of covid19. I have within pleasantly surprised. Purchase more applications have been higher than they were a year ago. Sales pop backme p and home sales and mortgage purchase activity have been stronger than none projected. Of people in quarantine spent their time looking at homes online because them decided to buy we we came out of this. Market is the housing in a relatively strong point and here we need to be fogged on primarily is the lab market. Thank you to both of you. Time has expired. Support brown. Carson, do you know that people working in jobs right , millions pandemic of retail workers, custodians, ood service people, security people, home help aids, do you know that people working in pandemic through dont get paid enough to afford modest one room apartment . I do. That is one of the reasons we on the people ng who were most severely affected one of the emic and reasons they were most severely affected. Mr. Chairman, im going to cut you off. Dr. Carson. Ou act like you talk about the economy was on a rocket going up like a rocket we the pandemic hit. These are workers in the economy that have been pandemic rough the because corporations are not paying them enough and we had an Affordable Housing crisis before the Current Health crisis on the entire ame economic problems. Your agencies are making things whether through budget cuts to Affordable Housing or expensive ors more dismantling fair housing protection. I want to turn to, that i have to you and many members of this committee have and d me from minnesota hawaii and nevada and montana rhode island all of us writing to you about h. U. D. s our ion to not enforce nation as fair housing law. I will give you some examples. Defend fund said a sing, fafh proposal is blatant and egregious attempt to skrpbd mine the premise of the housing act and regression in practices. President said hat h. U. D. s protest disparate impact rule is at heads with the enacted ing and if would destroy liability as we know it. Coalition of 45 civil Rights Groups including the leadership the same rule was in direct contradiction to of s mission and decades precedent and Supreme Court ecision in inclusive these 45 groups represent tens and tens of millions of americans. This is our country. If these noring them it will be devastating for equality in this country. Why are you still moving forward with these roles rules . Abhor anything that smacks of unfairness for people. We also want things that actually work. Not things that have been there for decades and have not resulted in any improvement. Therefore, we are doing things a little bit differently. H, thelooking at aff real reason that their resegregation. The real reason is not because a bunch of George Wallace says standing in the doorways. Its because people can only afford to live in certain places. Therefore, we are moving toward a model where we encourage the development of affordable and decent housing. Not just in one area, but throughout lots of different areas. There was no evidence that that is what you are doing. Theres no evidence that this administration wants to see higher wages so workers can afford decent places to live. Opposition to the minimum wage. State lostple in my thousands of dollars in overtime because this administration, of which you are happily a part, always comes down on the side of corporate interest. Let me go somewhere else or my last question. Last week, the city of columbus opened up its Convention Center to begin processing evictions. One advocate told me about a client who was trying to avoid a fiction because her son is deployed in the navy and is returning home. She doesnt want him to find her a shelter. Reflect on that for a moment. 20 Million People have lost their jobs. Arenas as using eviction courts. You are the top Housing Authority in the country. You are the person. How many does people how many people does hud expect will become homeless in the weeks and months ahead . We will be working hard to make sure that no one mr. Secretary, how many do you expect . Already, some have become homeless. These of fiction courts continue to operate. When the deadly comes off deadline comes off, more people will be homeless. Committeeon this supports 100 billion in the emergency eviction fund. 20 million americans unemployed. Renters have little or no confidence they can pay their rent next month. How many people will be homeless . How many will lose their homes . What are you going to do about it . Says,ent trump simply there is no sense of urgency. We dont have to do another package. We will let happen whats going to happen. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator scott . Thank you to both of the panelists. The into continue on fiction conversation. Its an important conversation for us to engage in. Perhaps senator browns passion is wellplaced. There was a lot of fear around. Viction we did this to make sure that families would not end up on the streets during a pandemic and job losses. As we pivot to a recovery and better job numbers, my question is this. As you think through the eviction conversation, can the moratorium actually make it harder for renters . Are they not accruing a bigger and bigger balance that they have to pay one day . Will that not actually lead to more infections evictions and not less . I appreciate his passion. I think the other side of the coin is, we may be setting up for people for longterm failure if we dont start looking at the of the from the end crisis back as opposed to at the beginning of the crisis forward. Either panelists. Thats a very astute observation. Is, whenof the matter we extend the forbearance and people still low money still owe money, that is not helpful. What is helpful is creating an environment such as we were enjoying a few months ago. People have employment. People have opportunities to climb the ladder. Interested in creating Affordable Housing in lots of different places. Those are the kinds of things that really empower people. We are interested in programs were people can be able to save some money so that they can actually make a down payment on a home because thats the principle mechanism of wealth accumulation in this country. We are not interested in continuing a bunch of old programs that kept people in progress for generations. Anything to add to that . I think you touched upon a very important point. Fundamentally, we want to grow the jobs and incomes of people can pay their rent rather than try to avoid evictions. We moved quickly before the cares act to put a moratorium on evictions. Loans. It currently goes to june 30. How are we growing jobs and come . How are we dealing with lack of housing supply . All these things are critical to deal with. One final question. This is on forbearance measures. Tell, you have been very receptive and open. Weve had many conversations. We dont always agree on the outcome. At least you are both available for that conversation. I thank you for that. The fha has been working with lenders and servicers to implement the extensive forbearance measures we put into the cares act. You have spoken about this before. Can you give me an update or assessment of the assistance being provided to borrowers . Can you give me an update on forbearance through the fha . The current numbers as of this morning are 6. 6 . One third of those are continuing to make their payments. Weve seen that flatlined over the last couple of weeks. It seems to have stabilized. Good. The first time it started going back in the other direction. That is a much smaller number than had been anticipated and predicted by many. We will continue to to work extremely hard to push that down further. I have 30 seconds left. With theree that surprising job numbers in may, perhaps the worst of it is over . Out, start climbing getting folks reengaged in their , is ay responsibilities good thing longterm for their savings and Retirement Funds . Ultimately, the one thing i keep thinking about is people who have limited income and limited savings. The deferral has been helpful. That is good news. Issueraid of creating an where that three months divided over several months is still a bit too much for people to absorb. The faster we get better to normal, the better off we will be. Especially as the economy starts to percolate. You are so right. Thats why it is so important that we utilize the information that we have learned about covid19 so that we can live with it and not be dominated by it. Thank you, sir. Senator reid . Thank you very much. Me direct some questions to you. I understand that during your Forbearance Programs, people temporarily were forgiven from their mortgage requirements. Time whichof that will terminate, thousands of people could lose their homes. Infected. Uld be is that a real situation were looking at . We want to minimize that. Within fannie and freddie loans, nobody will be required to make a lump sum payment. Our default option is to add that to the end of the loan. Whenever the house is paid off. We try to make sure that there is no payment shock at all. There is no change in the Monthly Payment for the borrower or renter. We try to be able to make sure that people can get current again as much as we can. We are focused on trying to minimize how many of these loans actually go into real delinquency or foreclosure. We are very much focused on that. Legally,ality is that that landlord or that mortgage ,older can walk in the next day if the next payment isnt made, you are out. That i dontentive think we can avoid. You have situations also where individual mortgages that are not very related. Federally related. They have already been foreclosed. The situation is such that we are looking you put your finger on it. We are looking at a real unemployment problem. A funds program. Even if your forbearance is tacked onto the end, people still much might not be able to pay. That would suggest to me that we need to do several things. First, extend Unemployment Compensation. Asy of the people who are, you have alluded to, who are still paying are only doing so because they are getting enhance and implement compensation. Resources to individual mortgages easing and renters. So that they can pay their rent or their mortgage. In addition, it takes the pressure off of the landlords and the banks so that they have funds. Wouldnt that make more sense than just simply stopping one day and crossing our fingers . On the point that this is a jobs income issue. That is where we should focus. In terms of fannie and freddie loans, generally borrowers dont want walk away from their home is that if there is positive equity. Less than 1 of these borrowers across the board are in a negative equity position. As long as we have a strong Housing Market, which is an open question, in the strength of the current Housing Market, i dont think there will be a lot of borrowers walking away. That doesnt change the fundamental point you raise. This is an income jobs issue. And we have to deal with getting the income to the people. Either through Unemployment Insurance compensation together with some subsidy or help for their rent or mortgage. Anyone wanting to walk away from their house. What i do see is people wanting to go in there and foreclose on a house and sell to someone else at a profit. Thats the way the system seems to operate today. That will be an option that they will have once we stop forbearing and providing unemployment conversation that compensation. Unemployment compensation. This is something we have to take very seriously. In rhode island, 30,000 individual households will be at risk of foreclosure when the unEmployment Benefits terminate. It will be out on the street very quickly. We know also, one of the things about this crisis is most of those households will be ordinary household. They dont have the resources or financial support. They dont have the money stashed away to make it a couple more months. As far as Affordable Housing goes, we have tried to put money in for Affordable Housing. It is a fraction of what we need. Not administration have been talking about a for the housing. They should talk about it more. We plus of Affordable Housing. We have a crisis ahead of us. Simply sitting back and saying we wont tag on or we wont demand the need of repayment of forbearance, we are so pleased that the other things we have seen. This is the point. Thank you. Senator cotton. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony today. I will address this at you. Ive long had concern about Mortgage Servicing assets. Lately from the Vantage Point of homeowners who could get confused or run into problems to try to resolve payment issues on their mortgage. When the homeowners are working with a can 70 that is not in markets have had to evolve since 2008. That has pushed that Mortgage Service and independent services. Concern for homeowners is only more acute now. The cares act could cause dislocation in the market because of the forbearance mandate. Mortgage servicers are having to shelter. Mortgage servicing industry as a whole is wellcapitalized to withstand a large degree of forbearance and observing the impact of the coronavirus lockdown. I wondered if you could talk a bit more about the upper limits to that capacity. Opinion, might it bring the service of mortgage industry up to its limits. Thank you. Let me start with emphasizing that the 346 nonbank servicers get quarterly financials for each and every one of them. For the larger of the nonbank servicers, we get weekly or daily contact through some of them. I want to assure you that our analysis on the service is datadriven. We are looking at the financials for these entities. We are monitoring them. Every morning, i get a heightened watch list of services. Im happy to say that that list is smaller today than it was two months ago and even two weeks ago. I would go as far to say that servicers are in a better financial position today than they were in march. When we have seen servicers who we thought were close to the line, and those servicers to raise liquidity. Many of them have. Many of them have raised substantial liquidity. That youates are probably could have within the fannie and freddie book, i want thattimates emphasize these are issues that are different. Book, fannie and freddie we would have to see a forbearance rate get over 3 before there would be stress among the industry. This will be systemic. Thats why we put the fourmonth limitation in place so that no service or would be on the hook for 12 months. They give an answer. I did back my time. Senator menendez . Carson, it has been over two months since the cares act became law. The act provided 5 billion in desperately needed funding for communities to address the health and economic aspects of the covid response. Releasedhud has only about 3 billion of the Funds Congress appropriated. Furthermore, there was a major lack of clarity from hud on the rules around first disbursement which caused confusion and delays as the recipients desperately sought answers. Questions like whether they can use the funds for pbe, covid testing, or supporting small businesses. My question to you, when does hud plan to release the remaining funds provided under the cares act . Thank you very much for your question. Know, the time in which we have released the wast set of funds for cdbg a record amount of time. The reason that was done without a federal register notice is because that is not required in those situations for the money to be dispersed and used. I hope we have made that clear to everybody. It will be that, coming out in the near future. As is there a timeframe here . The Reason Congress provided these moneys is obviously to deal with the challenges that these municipalities have. Revenuesemands, less that are taking place as a result of all the social distancing measures that took place, so all their different forms of revenues are less. This money for some essential programs is critical. Billion, 9. 1. 4 billion of it has already been allocated. Much of that has been utilized by using the grant formulas that are already in existence. That will beion of allocated by october 1. Wow. October 1 . That is way too late. Thats not what congress intended. The demand is now. Theres no way that we should be waiting until october for that to happen. All the statutory requirements and timing will be met. Switch to another topic. 18 2018, i and a series of other senators sent you a letter raising concerns about hud implementing an unofficial policy denying fha insured loans to Daca Recipients. We asked had to clarify that it was not in policy. Your Agency Responded saying, it had not implemented any policy changes during the current administration, either formal or informal, with respect to fha were eligibility requirements for Daca Recipients. 2019, fhay 12, administrator testified before the House Appropriations committee saying the policy has for many years. On february 22, 2019, hud officials met with my senior staff and other senate staff to brief them on the fha policy related to Daca Recipients. Those officials affirmed that there had been no policy changes. You even testified before the House Committee on appropriations in april of 2019 that you were unaware of any challenge changes in policy related to Daca Recipients receiving fha loans and said, im sure we have plenty of Daca Recipients who have fha mortgages. However, documents released on friday revealed that hud officials were actively discussing and had implemented a policy prohibiting the issuance of fha loans to Daca Recipients as early as march of 29th 2018 if not sooner. Why did you and other had officials conceal and misrepresent this policy change to members of congress . I have concealed nothing at all. Do people have conversations . Yes they do. Im sure they will continue to have conversations. And my privy to all conversations . No. Do they change the policies . Absolutely not. It evidently has changed the policy. Ive heard from so many lawfully present Daca Recipients, Social Security numbers, everything that we wouldnt expect from a law abiding citizen. Mortgage companies have said that fha has changed the rules. So all of your departments testimony today is totally out of the realm of what has been recorded. Thats what the fouryear documents show. This department has changed the rules on Daca Recipients. The whole thing started as a result of the question that was asked about it. That maybee to light some rules were being violated and people decided they better play closer attention to the rules. That is simply not what happened at all. Ok. Senator mcsally . Thank you. Good to see you again. Fhfa guarantees 5. 7 trillion in mortgages. It is a Critical Role in getting us through this pandemic. In your testimony, you said that 6. 4 of fannie and freddie mortgages have entered forbearance. Those are many of my constituents. Them heard from several of who are getting conflicting information and a lot of misunderstanding or confusion over the process of forbearance. Oftentimes, its different depending on who they are dealing with. Forumyou have this public and opportunity to speak with constituents like mine who are looking for this forbearance, can you explain how the forbearance is designed to work . What should the process look like for the borrowers . What to the lenders and servicers be doing to ensure that they are following the law . What consequences are there . Thank you. The very answers that servicers were giving, we crafted a script. Fannie and freddie have sent it to all of their services. This was done some time ago. Borrowers, they should get the same script. They should get the same answers. For borrowers listening, let me emphasize that there is no requirement that all for the missed payments to be made up. ,f you have missed three months if it is a fannie and freddie loan, no one will be asking you to pay that back all at once. If you can, that is great. If you have been one of those borrowers and forbearance you have made your payments, you are immediately able to refinance if you choose. We will have a waterfall with two different options. If you, the barber has missed payments, do not contact the lender when you resume your payments, we will take those payments and put them at the end of the loan, interest free. 3000 in you missed payments, you have a 250,000 mortgage, it will become a 253,000 mortgage. It is not amateur rise. That is paid back when you sell the home or when you refinance. We think this is fair to borrowers and lenders. It keeps the exact same payments. When you resume, that will be pushed off. If you are back to work but you are not making what you are used to, and you cant afford the previous payment, we will direct you to a modification option. We can come up with a payment that is affordable. That will have to be something where you reach out to your servicer and work with them for that option. Emphasize, if you started resuming your payments, we are going to tack it on the end automatically. That will be reflected in your monthly statement. It wont change. Great. Fha announced the payment deferment plan. Thats different from a forbearance request. Can you explain the difference . The forbearance is at the beginning of this. The payments are not forgiven. They are just pressed on pause. Servicer,p to your contact your servicer. This part is crucial. You have to call or sign up. A number of lenders allow you to do this online. Enroll in the forbearance plan. Its not forgiven. It will just be tacked onto the end of the mortgage. When you start your resume, whatever you missed will be put back on the mortgage. Its critical to keep in mind, its not forgiven. Its a pause. You still have to pay it. For many households, if you cant pay it, you are better off continuing to pay it. Its a timeout. Thats the way to think of it. Is that different than the payment deferral plan that your agency came up with . It is. The forbearance is what happens on the frontend. While you are missing the payment or not making the payment. The payment deferral is what happens when you are out of forbearance. Thank you. I want to share in my remaining time, a single mom on my street who has missed four months of rent. Her homeowner has been given some relief. What else can be done for the renters, to ensure that they are not put in a situation with potential of fiction . Important for the renters to make sure that they are in contact with the pha, with the owners to work something out. Have aso can reassessment of their income made. So that their rent obligation can be lowered. It does require proactivity on behalf of the renter. Great. Im out of time. I appreciate it. Senator tester . Thank you. Thank you for being here today. Going off of what senator grants, said about the the fact that they arent out 2. 5 months after the cares act has been passed. On same thing can be said the emergency solution graham. Grant. Congress passed the cares act, 2. 5 of the money has been available to. 5 months after we wrote the cares act. Can you tell me why this is the case . First of all, the rest of is beingmoney announced today. All 4 billion of it will be allocated and announcements made as of today. Why did it take so long . This is record time, senator. Were in a pandemic a lot of other things are going on. I dont think congress it is what senator does was referring to. Congress passed the cares act in a record amount of time. To have a going out in mid summer and fall. Sir, that thee, initial amount of bsg when out the first week after the bill was signed. That was a billion dollars. We made it clear that homeless assistance, that is something not the case. Its good you are getting it out now. I hope its not too late. On senatorh mcnallys question. Rental assurance and rental forgiveness. We have a situation where people have lost their jobs and they cant pay rent. We are telling them, its ok. You dont have to pay your rent. In the meantime, weve got people who own the properties who may have loans on that property. They might be through whatever mechanism they might have used. Can anybody tell me what the for not only keeping the renters in their homes when we hopefully get out of this, what is the plan for the Property Owner . Owner first of all, you might be surprised. You probably cant see this. This is the rent payment tracker for 2019 versus 2020. You can see that it has not changed very much. 97. 7 of people were paying last year. 94. 6 now. People have been paying significantly their rent. We are still concerned about it, obviously. Thats why i mentioned that if you dont see any prospect of being able to get a job, which i dont think will be the case for most people, if that is the case, you can have your income readjusted so that your rent will be readjusted down. I got it. I appreciate that. In homest the folks that are being rented out . Thathave loans on those may not have gotten the income from rent because rent wasnt paid. Those individuals are businesses. They qualify for ppe. You think that is adequate enough to take care of this right now . Working, quitebe frankly. Ok. In april come up republican reported in april, propublic up reported that landlords were proceeding with the fiction eviction during this pandemic. Are you aware of that . What are you doing about it . We certainly have heard of landlords moving forward. We have not seen evidence on whether those properties are fair near freddie back door knob. Acked or not. We get those complaints to the cfpb. They try to get the state attorney generals. We dont have statutory Enforcement Authority in this area. Theres that much you can do about it is what you are saying. Correct. Other than try to bring attention to it. If we believe that a landlord who is getting forbearance is vital violating the terms, we can stop the forbearance. We have no ability to bring an enforcement action against landlords. Thank you. Senator moran . Thank you. Thank you for joining us. I want to draw my attention to you in my questions. I would like to talk about risk waiting for singlefamily versus multifamily. B proposal,fas theres a confusing disparity between how the risk waiting is applied to singlefamily versus multi family. Determining the singlefamily, they relied on the crisis of 2008 for a factual basis to make that determination. On the multiside, there was an but that was fh fa not the appropriate way to look at it for multi family. That can 2008sses losses were 1. 2 while singlefamily losses were 3. 6 . Comparison, it surprises me that the indications by the reproposal is that the risks are higher in regard to multi family when it seems to me the evidence shows exactly the opposite. Why then relative to singlefamily event safe essay analyzing multi family against the data . Fhfa may becated that over financing multi family housing. Are these two things related . I want to make sure that we are making risk calculations based upon the facts, not upon a desire to reduce the financing of multi family. Thank you. Thank you for that question. Let me say that i could not agree with you more on everything. The should be driven by the data. Let me start with your last question. There is a preexisting multi Family Activity tap. Theres the capital rule treatment of multi family. Those are two different things. There is nothing that is driven in the capital rule that is meant to drive the activity more or less of multi family. Those are two different. The current reproposal is a reproposal of a 2018 role that was crafted by my predecessor. The multi family part of that rule is exactly the same as it was in the 2018 role. Very modest changes were made. I want to clarify a couple of issues that are critical here. While the reproposal attempts to use more bank like language so that analysts and commentators who understand the process can read our proposed rule and have an apples and apples approach. World, wherenking the risk brackets are somewhat aware with thell 50 risk weight that families have on singlefamily market as is. That is the same for everything in that bucket. Whereas the average risk weight on both singlefamily and multifamily in the proposed rule are driven by the composition of the loans. Seen isyouve really that the composition of both multi family and singlefamily loans today is different than it was in 2008. Im very appreciative that these multifamily performed functionally pretty well. Let me emphasize that the cap on multi family that we said still has family and freddie where they have been in the marketplace, which is their foggiest marketshare theyve had in decades. Backve not pulled them from the multifamily market. Weve tried to make sure that it performs differently. Freddie do have a significant amount of Seniors Housing and Student Housing in the multi family sector that are both under stress that we are keeping an ion. Im not overly concerned. Theres a possibility of that being a different crisis this time around the last crisis. I want to emphasize that its a proposed rule. Were taking,. We expected welcome commentary from the multifamily industry and others. We will go through those comments. We will be thoughtful about it. We about it. I promise you, will be transparent about it. Thank you. Would you commit that you will inform my staff . Absolutely. I will follow up about other alternatives for that kind of lending for multi family, what you see as available. I think the chairman. Senator schatz . Thank you. Half of all renters live in apartments. Owned by individual landlordsf. Landlords. The same protections are not extended to renters in the 14 unit buildings. Are you considering extending the protections prior to announcing the Forbearance Program . You that section 4022 of cares, which handles the singlefamily, which is where the singlefamily rental is, we are mandated on the honor system where we have to provide a forbearance. In 4023 of cares, which covers the multi family, you have these requirements for there to be an exchange for forbearance. There will be no of fiction or nonpayment of rent. Our conclusion is that, for us to place legal mandates on nonfiction, on tenants in singlefamily properties under 4022, congress would have to amend that section. Thank you cover thank you. A couple questions about where the disparity lies. You referred to a foreclosure moratorium which expires at the end of this month. Said you are giving consideration to extending that moratorium. Is that correct . Yes. What is your timeframe for deciding that . What is the timeframe under consideration in terms of an extension . We will make that decision and announcement within a week. We can always extended as we move along. We want to extend it a month at a maximum. We wouldnt want it to be more than two months. We can always extended again if we start to see how the economy evolves. My preference is to give people enough certainty without necessarily locking us in. The july 24 expiration of the eviction moratorium, is that in the congresss hands or do you have discretion other than the complication related to like tech units . We can extend for gse. All federalt covers related mortgages. If there was an extension for those, we could not do that. We could extend the foreclosure moratorium. I want to emphasize, part of what we have done is foreclosures that were in process please cares act. There were a number for fannie and freddie ongoing foreclosures precovid. Becaused those as well we wanted to be able to facilitate social distancing. Were looking at continuing that. Thes a separate outside of 22. A lot of good conversation has happened related to what will happen once the current cares act provisions related to housing expire. If you would provide to the predictionsset of and recommendations for consideration as we look at the next round of legislation, to understand what will happen next in the event that we do nothing at all. How many people would be out on the streets . How many would be in foreclosure . How many would be affected . What is it was in the administrations authority . Portly, what we are going to need to do whether congress to make sure that we dont face a collapse. There are a lot of technical aspects of this. What were looking at is that people have their bills piling up and up and up. They ares that experiencing some relief right now. As i heard director carson and you talk about, the best solution to this being job growth. That may be true enough. We know even the most optimistic scenario, that jobs growth is not going to come back enough to help people to rent and mortgage. Individuals will be helped. Weve got 40 million individuals were unemployed. Those jobs are not coming back very quickly. Agencies, its a rhetorical sleight of hand to say, you have to wait for the job market to recover. That will be years before we are fully recovered. One final question. Are you comfortable with an october deadline for pushing out the cbd money . Thats the deadline. I understand that. I understand what you said. I understand that you are saying that you are within the statutory framework. Thats all im asking. Understanding how urgent the situation, understanding that we are at depression levels of unemployment, understanding that we are in a Global Pandemic, that seems rather casual. Well, were meeting the statutory mandate. You know that people across the country are suffering. Is there anyway you could see fit to go back to your agency and accelerate the process of pushing out these funds . We are not saying that you are violating the law. We are saying that people need the money now. Would you consider pushing it out more quickly . We are way over time. Isthe statutory requirement june 25. It is out today, tonight. It doesnt mean, when the deadline is, that we will wait that long. We will get it out as fast as we possibly can. Thank you. Senator van hollen . Thank you. You have a lot of questions about the impact of job loss and loss of income. Therefore, the difficulty so many people have in paying rent. I think even the most optimistic scenarios show that millions of americans will remain unemployed through no fault of their own beyond tyler july 31. After july 31, the enhanced Unemployment Compensation benefits expire unless we extend them. Quick question to both of you. Do you agree that it makes sense to extend enhanced Unemployment Insurance to help people pay their rent as this emergency continues . Will obviously be very important for us to monitor the situation, see how much recovery is going on. Obviously, we are not going to sit idly by and watch millions of americans suffer for something that is not their fault. Just to clarify, at the end of july, we will continue to have millions of people unemployed. You would support continuing and hence an employment compensation at some point . As necessary. Right. Do you have an opinion on that . Agencies independent and not part of the administration or the negotiations. Leave what the next package looks like between the congress and the administration. I understand that. Also somebody who is wellversed on these housing issues. You have an understanding of the impact of people not paying their rent. You dont have any opinion on this . I certainly share the point about the need, the broader income job dynamic. I certainly think the number of senators who have raised issues about the 600, some percentage of the unemployed that are receiving more than they are wearing wages. In wages. In risk of the old cliche about a twohanded economist, there are tradeoffs here. I think fundamentally the reason you and your colleagues are elected are to weigh those tradeoffs. We will do that. Program weorkshare will talk more about which provides the benefit of the employers being able to share reduced hours and wages with the unemployment system. In response to an earlier question, you mentioned the process at hud for income recertification for people who have lost income, they can recertify. Has had hud put out Additional Information to better inform tenants about the fact that they have to do that and that option is available to them . We have. coronavirus. Have you thought of expediting the process . We know a lot of people are losing their income because they are losing their jobs. Is there a way to expedite that process so people can get the benefit of it earlier rather than later . We have our assistant secretary who is in constant communication with the various phas and others to inform them of what the processes and how to access the process quickly. Now, but if you could get is that information on how many people have requested recertifications since the emergency head and how many received it, can you get us that information . Thank you. Recently reached your we proposed capital rates one interest lowincome borrowers and could raise mortgage payments by 200,000, 58 per month. The fact that this proposal will increase Interest Rates, they will be disproportionately borne by lowerincome households . I would disagree with that analysis. A mortgage insurer her has strong economic interest in not seeing us do this. I would not put for him him forward as an unbiased expert in this. I would note that we have a decade since the financial crisis of arguments by wall street that somehow raising capital will destroy lending in this company. That has not been the case. Banks in theal jumbo market are able to make mortgages and they hold twice the capital that this rule requires and do so what cost that are equal to or less than what fannie and freddie are charging. I think its critical that we have financial stability. We know in moments of stress, large institutions are undercapitalized. My time is up. If you could provide us your estimate of the impact this proposal will have on Interest Rates and mortgage payments for lower income households, can you get us detailed information on that . We will look into that and see what we can provide. That in makingme this kind of decision, it is essential to have that information. I hope you can put it together and reported. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Appreciate you for being here. Thank you for being on the phone with me last week as well. Online, theres an article that says new data is raisingt covid19 housing disparities by race and income. Racial and it economic disparities existed long before the covid19 pandemic. New data from the u. S. Census bureau suggests that the pandemic and its economic fallout is widening is divides. Would you agree with that . Absolutely. Yes. Thank you. Listened carson, i your testimony. In your written statement, you note the initial funds that congress has provided to help people with housing assistance. Or see any answers about how your deployment will respond to the increasing numbers of african americans, latinos, and low income people. Ho are facing racing evictions had a deleted the assistance formulas, did your researchers prioritize communities with high proportions of africanamericans and latinos . Did you take that into consideration . Your voice keeps going in and out. Im not getting the full question. If we areu are asking doing Statistical Analysis of the communities we are trying to help. Looking at the demographic data. If that somehow being utilized in the policies that we create. Would that be inaccurate for trail . Thank you. Thats accurate. Of course, we always look at the demographics. We do recognize that there is a based onnt disparity the environment in which you live. The covid19 crisis has made it very clear that comorbidities such as hypertension and diabetes and obesity and asthma has a tremendous negative impact in terms of morbidity and mortality. I appreciate that. You are secretary of urban development right now. As you look at this data, which you dont disagree with, what are you doing right now, during to address this issue . I have not heard in this conversation how you address this. Thats my first question to. To you. We are utilizing the white House Counsel on opportunity and revitalization, a multi agency counsel, to address the underlying causes for those disparities. That means housing specifically. That means education, communication, transportation. I appreciate that. I appreciate what the white house is to trying to do. What policies and programs are you doing as secretary of what are you doing to address this . We recognize that this is going to be an olive government approach to solve these kinds of problems. These are not just a hud problem. They are not just an hhs problem. Its a combination of utilizing all these things together. Recognizing what the underlying causes of these problems are. I appreciate that. I appreciate the wraparound approach. The holistic approach. You are the secretary of hud. We are looking for specific programs, policies out of your department to address the housing piece. I have not heard that. I sense frustration from the senators. I will submit the rest of my questions for the record. Thank you. Senator jones . I appreciate the opportunity to be here. The witnesses for being here and giving us information. I would like to ask secretary carson a little bit about the issues involving radon and radon testing. Discussed, there have been numerous reports of a million or so instances where it is estimated that radon exist in Public Housing. Thats a serious hazard for potential lung cancer. 21,000 americans die of lung cancer every year. The president s budget includes 5 billion for the Healthy Homes program. I appreciate and commend your recognizing what a problem this is. One of the problems we see is that Public Housing authorities also have to provide and make sure that housing is habitable. When the unit is not being an inhabited, they somehow get penalized. Huds for Housing Authority in alabama in particular has had this problem. They said they do not have the money at this time to fix the housing. I want to make sure we invest in safe, healthy housing. If the moneys are not there, i dont want to see Public Housing authorities being penalized. Is hud adjusting of policy so we dont penalize these phas while they are waiting for sufficient funds to remove Hazardous Materials such as radon . We are. The 5ou for mentioning million. Its the first time that money has been dedicated for radon. Ofhave a Healthy Homes grant 20 million. It can be utilized for radon as well. Weve also changed the inspection protocol so that it will be a part of the inspection. Know,sly, as you probably there are state and local requirements requiring radon as well. Whetherbe assessed those are being followed. During the inspection process. Thank you. My real question is as these areic housing authorities waiting to abate the radon and empty,nits are sitting are you adjusting your policy so they do not get penalized having vacate buildings, vacate apartments . The apartments notvacant but theyre mandates of state and local law, yes, they will be penalized. We cannot allow them to ignore regulations. It takes time to get the radon ando abate the for p. H. A. s doing everything to comply with the law, are you trying to give adjustments for their good faith compliance and they simply dont have the money or are you going to penalize them even though they do not have the funds to comply. Sec. Carson if they make it clear they have recognized the problem and theyre in the process of addressing it and are waiting for the funding to do so, of course we will provide them an appropriate waiver. Great. You, sir. Thank you for that. Staying with you, secretary i appreciate a lot of what is being implemented with the cares act and recognizing the impact the healthcare crisis on minority populations but i would be remiss if i that priornted out to this crisis your Department Number ofssued a rules and has done some things ont i think completely turn its head the role of h. U. D. In trying to prevent discrimination. Instance, the new rule that disparatefrom the almostwill make it impossible to provide and sue on racebased issues. Theve got rules that have mixed status rule which i think created problematic areas to fight discrimination. Initiativeusing program from the 21 budget, i than what should be and you know im really concerned about the proposed rule of where in 2018 the Trump Administration delayed and then rescinded the obama administrations rule regarding recipients of h. U. D. Funds in localities to undertake a analysis for fair housing barriers. Your proposed rule now completely eliminates tools segregationce and removingad focuses on regulatory barriers to develop so as we move out of this mr. Secretary, im asking you, can you commit to making sure that the Housing Starts looking at discrimination . We are in a crisis in this country involving race. Seeing it. It is not just police and law enforcement. Thatou commit to make sure in terms of the housing across this country, your department is look at take another the rules implemented and try to fair, equitable and does everything in the governments power to prevent of any sort . N sec. Carson we will definitely commit to doing everything we prevent discrimination and create fair housing. No question about that. Thank you, sir. You, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Warner. Thank you, id like to go to dr. Calabria. Thank you for the opportunity weve had to speak. I really do appreciate your willingness to engage with me to come back the of months we have seen the importance of the governments role in supporting the mortgage market. The government supported mortgage market, the rest of the that wellnot doing and you can point out congress not been very effective in reform efforts. I am concerned about some of the plan so theons yourrop as we get into you, can you address how think the current economic timingges may impact the release . Think of investors earnings and some of the interest of the investors might be diminished. To that as well as how we ave to make sure weve got real plan to make sure theyre paid for the government backed stock. Sec. Carson thank you, senator. Questions in there and let me say it is always a pleasure to talk to you and i at least always feel that when we disagree, its in a and fair andanner open manner. Let me also emphasize that as an independent regulator, i cant speak to the administrations plan. Make a point about conservatorship. This is not a choice on my part but a statutory mandate. The act requires me to get fannie and freddie in a safe and condition, consistent with exiting conservatorship. At this point i think this will likely delay an exit by three to months but i would underline the tremendous number unknowns. It was touched upon, if we have forbearance loans eventually go into default, perhaps foreclosure or serious delinquency, well have to take those loans out of pools, put on to the balance sheet. For fannie and freddie, the with this,price tag we probably wont see that until the fourth quarter. Were still seeing how this evolves. Simply say its too soon three to tell and my four months should be taken with error. Margin of please keep those of us involved in this subject informed. Obviously, the market is theging and interest of private investors. It appears, as well, that existing shareholders continue youre going to simply walk away from the government for position without compensation. Think it would be helpful in terms of getting everyone guidance to just would nothat support walking away from the position. s wouldlabria while i emphasize that what happens to is governments investment the responsibility of treasury, we shouldy think that make sure the government is recouped but i to emphasize is fundamentally the treasury departments decision. Youre a smart guy and have a good amount of input. Too think its important send that signal to the market that the governments not going preferreday from its position without compensation. Issue has been raised but i want to interest, asmy that making sure communities that weve got data metrics on how the covid19 crisis has disproportionately affected communities of color and how that data will be really important as we think about how to protect these communities. Im down to my last nine seconds ouri would like to continue discussion. We end uprned that if with a solution, toobigtofail duopoly, i think it could be a a 2008ge to come back to sharing. Thout risk the entities too big to fail that i know of. Well continue the conversation. . Senator smith thank you for being here to before our committee today. I want to talk about the economic, health and Racial Equity crisis in our country. Murdered byloyd was Minneapolis Police officers in my home town. Tragedy ands a never should have happened and we cannot look away from this deep injustice. Reveals, i know, a systemic inequity that exists in policing and in our society and it is intolerable. I have listened to black people in my community who have said to anguish and fear and we want is that all to know that the police wont attack us and kill us. All we want is to be treated know we need to seek justice for mr. Floyd and his family but people are because in the street they are demanding more and we need to listen and respond. That we demanding dramatically transform our policing systems in this country they are also demanding that we speak out and change and disparities and discrimination that exist in all community, including our housing system. As several having mentioned, the pandemic is increasing this divide. In minneapolis, we have the highest Home Ownership rate in the country but the fifth biggest gap in Home Ownership between white households and households of color. Typical black family in minneapolis earns less than half of the typical white family. Roughly 25 of black families in minneapolis own their own home, one of the lowest rates in the that homed we know ownership is the way that most americans build wealth and economic stability. So why has this happened . Racism isat historic at the root of this. In this 20th century in minneapolis, racist redlining strategies barred families of houses andbuying length in renting in many neighborhoods. In the 1960s we built freeways decimated mystically black neighborhoods. Americanght african families lost their homes when i94 freeway through the twin cities. Disparities everywhere in this country. Secretary carson, we need to fulfill the promise of the fair housing act. A youngfrom 1968 when senator from minnesota, walter mondale, helped to write that landmark legislation and we know its promise has not been likelled and we have rules the fair housing rules written to do just that but h. U. D. Under leadership has undermined this rule and your agencys fair housing. See secretary carson, i believe this moment wen responsibility to change the system in housing these deepuates inequities that we all know are there. We it continue to move forward have or actually do something about this so i ask you to consider the voices of my voices ofts, the civil rights leaders and advocates and seize this moment of change thatd we need to make around fair housing. You have the power to do this. Can use the power of your agency to do this. Somethingask you specifically related to these related specifically to the issue of homelessness on land. Exposedd pandemic has huge racial and economic andarities and inequities we see the devastating impact on tribal land. According to the national on homelessness, people homelessness are uniquely vulnerable to covid19 insecurity and crowded conditions and not hygiene stations, not enough health. Risk factors are there, it makes no sense to me that tribes are not eligible to apply for the h. U. D. Homeless Assistance Grant. Senator murkowski and i have a bill to fix this. Secretaryn to you, carson, is do you think that accessshould be able to the homelessness Assistance Grant so they can reduce some of and helprowding families find safe and stable housing . Sec. Carson there have been a number of programs, im sure youre familiar with the indian Grant Program and indian cdbg program which ofvides the same kinds relief as the program that youre talking about. Theyo i believe that should be entitled to significant help because of the disparities . Answer is yes. Thank you, secretary carson. To pushwere Going Forward this legislation. I think its very important and separately with more questions related to sprinkler systems in multifamily units, a big problem in Public Housing projects. You. Thank you. Is she on video and audio . Senator . Mr. Chairman, can you hear me . I can. Us on audio. H go ahead. Thats right and thanks to all of our witnesses for being today. Economists reported this week recession officially began in february and i hear about how the Health Crisis and bad economy hardship forficant families across the state. Arizonans worry about health and increase number are border how to make ends meet. Act to findust meaningful relief to stabilize of economy, fight the spread coronavirus and help our governments provide essential services. Secretary carson, thank you for being with us. I want to talk about what we when we say eviction or foreclosure. Facingre families likely homelessness and need to find shelter and food. Unprecedented wait lists for services across our state. This is largely through no fault of their own. You does it mean to personally when an American Family loses their home . Home isson having a one of the things that gives and confidencey and the ability to take advantage of other things in its very obviously important. So what would you tell a family that is facing or eviction . Tell themn you would that youre going to try to help them. Hats what were here for many arizonans are struggling to keep their lives together its hard for families to stay strong without safe and Affordable Housing. To find ways to turn the words we want to help you a growingn but this problem in arizona particularly in the multifamily rental market. Property owners who told me that over 50 of their inants missed rent payments april or may and we see Court Dockets filled with eviction notices. The state of arizona dedicated 5 million to help struggling renters but there has been red delays. Very little of those funds have people need relief. Do you have people in the department of housing who can andide Technical Assistance share best practices with the state of arizona as we address these challenges . Do and wed be happy to provide them and also incould use your help helping to deregulate some of are preventingat affordableg of housing in arizona and other country. The this is creating problems, prices while economics are not going up. Im surprised to hear the term of needing more deregulation in arizona. Im a strong proponent of but arizonaeforms has some of the most relaxed regulations of any state in the country. Appreciate and we that. Talk a little to bit about my own experience. Secretary, iow, was homeless as a child and my in housingd insecurity for over three years. I lived without Running Water and electricity. Im looking for a department of housing to provide more empathy to provide active assistance to families on the verge of their homes like my family did because of tough times. Right now, unprecedented numbers of families in arizona are facing these tough times through own, through air Global Pandemic that is not manmade. And yet, theyre on the verge of anylessness without seeing kind of help in sight. Expires, iy time want to bring up one last issue for you. We see increased rates of seniors experiencing homelessness in arizona. Has nearly doubled in the last few years and i dont think the federal government has a solution for this population because most of the current efforts focus on getting people back to work. A smallget proposes increase in the section 202 program but we need more Affordable Housing options for seniors. That this Global Pandemic disproportionately impacts seniors, what can we do to and helphis issue seniors stay in homes . Sec. Carson we have to we have an ever growing incidents of seniors and we need to concentrate on the for seniorsing thats most appropriate where they may have some shared living but perhaps their private bathroom andr sleeping. That also gives them the withtunity to intermingle others and as you probably know, if you know anything about health, that is essential as you grow older. So we need to be thinking about of things that are changing in our society and specifically. M secretary, i see my time has expired. Licensed clinical social worker, i have a lot of experience in the hashes issues of Mental Health and my concern is that we are not action to support mental insecurityhysical for the seniors facing homelessness in the country. Thank you. Menendez has asked for a few more minutes and senator has asked to make a concluding statement. To you, senator menendez. Secretary carson, i want to go back to the daca issue since mentioned taking a closer look at the rules. Have Daca Recipients Social Security numbers, isnt that correct . Do. Carson i believe they and they have work permits, correct . I believe they do. And most have lived in the United States since they were correct . Is that sec. Carson yes. And they have legal presence, isnt that correct . Present,on they are yes. They are here present and legally according to d. H. S. , department of Human Services, Daca Recipients as having legal presence so that point is clear. So h. U. D. Could have made the determination to interpret has inresidency as it the past because in the past and recipients did receive were eligible for f. H. A. And had dutifully performed their responsibilities to include daca. A choice do exclude from f. H. A. Nts loans by defining lawful residency in a manner to exchewed exclude them. Change the rules recipientfore, a daca was eligible and received artgages if they were responsible borrower and now they cannot. So h. U. D. Changed the rules and they didnt reveal this change publicly and misrepresented to that a change had taken place. Yesterday several colleagues and sent a letter to h. U. D. s Inspector General requesting an investigation into how this decision was made forhow congress was misled so long. Will you commit to fully cooperate with that investigation . Only will wenot cooperate with the investigation to workuld be delighted with you in looking at that rule. I would accept that offer and whatully look to return to your department used to do and if somebody changed it you, somebody at a lower range and thats not youre view, i would embrace you changing back to what it was, where Daca Recipients who are present under the department of Human Services did receivee, mortgages if they were borrowers. You. We will conclude with senator brown with a brief concluding statement. Senator brown . Thank you for your courtesy and fair mindedness. I appreciate that. I want to close with a couple of points. Youralabria, i appreciate denial of rolling back civil rights protections and my directed at the secretary. Finance reform proposals will disproportionately hurt black communities. Secretarily, mr. Calabria, i repeat emphasize that while americans have lost homes during this crisis, carson, renters are saying theyre in trouble, to the paying, theyre taking on more debt they cant afford and importantly relying on expanded Unemployment Insurance we passed. Is set to expire in a little more than a month. The president , my republican colleagues, refuse to extend it. Many remember the only amendment senator mcconnell allowed from the senate floor to the cares act was to eliminate the expanded unemployment. We need to act now to put money pockets and pass emergency rental assistance. Secretary carson, you said the remarkst will offer up over the next week. I hope youre right about that. It will be hard when he spent career i know you know this and cant acknowledge it publicly i assume you privately but this president has spent his entire career dividing people from the central park five to birtherrism mexicans rapist, ripping children from parents to dominating protestors. That, tohy he does distract from his record record, theur record of betraying is expendable. It all comes down to leadership. Contrast the president with the leaderf another responding to calls for yesterday in the streets who said we shouldnt use violence to silence protestors but said, we must eliminate the problems which they stem. That came from the governor of your state when you were growing up, george romney, in detroit, in 1967. Andesponded by listening taking action. He worked to pass a fair housing law in michigan. Fairrked to implement the housing act, the job you have now, as h. U. D. Secretary. President nixon fired him for it. The American People are waiting on my republican colleagues and you, mr. Secretary, to show that same courage today. Dialogue,led for mr. Secretary, but you refuse to listen to all the people who your civilup against rights rollbacks, against your budget cuts, against your finance reforms that would make it harder for people of color in this country to buy a home. But todayor dialogue you said you were glad to not hear what i had to say but thats ok, mr. Secretary. Whether or not you prefer to listen to hope you the demands for justice from this country. R that concludes the questioning and comments for hearing. For senators who wish to submit the record, those questions are due to the tuesday, june 16. We ask our witnesses to respond to those questions as quickly as can. To both of you, i appreciate the work that youre doing and appreciate you being here to us today in this oversight hearing. This hearing is adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org. ] announcer the president , from public affairs, available now in book. Ack and e biographies of every president organized by their ranking by noted historians from best to and features perspective into the lives of our nations leadershiptives and styles. Visit our website to learn more about each president and feature and order your copy today, wherever books and sold. S are announcer coming up tonight from cspan, from houston, the funeral of george floyd, died in Police Custody in minneapolis. Then, the state Coronavirus Response with Governor Phil Murphy and protests over the death of george floyd. After that, Government Procurement and distribution strategies during the coronavirus pandemic. Formorial service was held your floyd in his hometown of houston. Mr. Floyd, who died in Minneapolis Police custody on may 20 five, will be buried next to his mother in texas. Among those in attendance, family,