Online if you are under the age of 30. Those of you between the ages of 30 and 50. And if you are 50 or over. You can also send us a text. Please include your name and where you are texting from. On twitter, we are cspanwj. Ourcouncil post on facebook page. We will start the program with a look at usa today, which says a day of grief, a call to action. The memorial featured a moment of silence aston lasted eight minutes and 46 seconds, the length of time a policeman laid his knee on the neck of george floyd. Police officers linked to floyds arrest and killing were dismissed from the force and charged with crimes, the most serious being seconddegree murder. Your comments on our social media pages, some of those right here on twitter. This one says every burning city in america has something in common, democrat mayors, democrat city councils, democrat sheriffs and Police Chiefs, Democrat Senate and house. Democrats need to stop blaming the right for the culture they created in the last 50 years. On facebook, one posts, this is not just a black issue, this is bad behavior. Police officers need to be held accountable for every citizen invoked action they take. There was something wrong with this cop before this incident incident. Innocent until proven guilty, not at the hands of a Police Officer. Fix it, hell, stop the violence. Heal, stop the violence. Another says lasting change can come by implement in two national laws, a bodycam for all police. The bodycam does not turn on, youre fired. Two, civilian review boards for all jurisdictions. Our question for you this morning, can the death of george floyd and protests lead to lasting change . From the floyd family attorney, one of the speakers at the Memorial Service yesterday in minneapolis. [video clip] basis of the constitution is simply this, that a black mother, the a black most uneducated black mother, the most inarticulate black mother, the most impoverished , has the same exact rights as a white baby born to a white mother, the most educated white mother, the most articulate white mother, has the most affluent white mother. Babyby virtue of that drawing its first breath as an american. I know that is not the case in america today, but i challenge anybody to say that is not the goal worth fighting for. He said i challenge anybody to say that is not what makes america the great beacon of hope and justice for all the world tomorrow. So when we fight for the George Floyds of the world, but more importantly, when we fight for the unknown George Floyds of the world, when we fight for the ,rayvon martins of the world when we fight for the michael , the jamarthe world clarks of the world, eric , tomorrowf the world tomorrow the world bree Stephan Clarkson of the clarks of then world, breanna clarks. What we are doing is having america live up to its creed. What we are really doing is helping america be the great beacon of hope and justice for all the world tomorrow. But most importantly, brothers and sisters, what we are doing is helping america be america for all americans. Host again, our opening question for you this morning, can lasting change follow the George Floyd Death . One line for those of you under the age of 30. One line for those of you under between the ages of 30 and 50. One for those of you over the age of 50. Tribunepolis, star and their headline, you changed the world, george. First up is joe. Go ahead. Caller glad you got me. I just want to say a couple of things about the demonstrations and all that. Paradeve people in the and they are throwing things, and these people see this and dont do a damned thing about it. They should take them and give them to the police. But no, they are just as bad as the people throwing the rocks on everything because they are not doing anything to try to call not. Half of the calm that. Half of the people that were there were there because they dont have anything else to do. Host philadelphia, go ahead. Caller i dont think it is going to change. I think it is going to be a lot of smoke and mirrors. Ive worked in government, Law Enforcement. You would be surprised what i used to hear in our squad room and locker room. Very prejudiced. Colleagues, they would be working with you day by day, night by night, sitting next to and makepatrol car racist and derogatory comments about you, your family. That went on for years. I dont thinkou, this gets better at all. Host when those incidents what happened, how did you react to your partner saying Something Like that . Caller i would say, are you serious . Why do you feel like that . We are working right beside each other every day. I would spend time with their family, they would spend time with mine. You were just here comments. You would just be so shocked. Somebody i worked with every day would make those kind of comments. Host how long were you on the police force . Caller heres. Years. Host how many . Caller three years. I worked in intelligence. Especially in philadelphia, you see it a time with different departments. How they just mess with minorities for no reason, and then make up fraudulent things. Division,e narcotics one of the most corrupt departments in the United States. The fbi indicted Six Police Officers and they couldnt get a conviction, but they had ofusands and thousands descendents they brought to court and they had to overcome their convictions because they planted evidence, they were when on Police Reports they would say we made a traffic stop for this and that, but it was all made up. That went on for years. Supervisors turned their head. If you say anything, they come after you. Host why did you leave . Caller because it was apparently i said wait a minute, i didnt sign up to go after a certain type of vehicle because these types of people drive these type of vehicles. I didnt sign up and go through the academy to target people. That is not right. That is not why i joined the Police Department. When i found out that was going on, me and many people left. We went to the ig, we went to the feds and the state. They turned their heads for years. Host thanks for calling in this morning. We go to joe. Caller i have been calling into your network for over 30 years. We just lost a Great American who preached love and kindness to all people. In memory of him, i am teaching a Leadership Class at the famous barbecue about love and kindness, urging these Young Leaders to be kind and loving to all people. I think that we can have change and im very optimistic about it, and im going to be preaching love and kindness to the young people for the rest of my life in my Leadership Class. Host great to hear from you. Your optimism also expressed by reverend al sharpton, one of the speakers at yesterdays memorial saying this could be a moment for optimism. [video clip] eulogiesspeeches and at most of the funerals that we have had in this space in the last couple of decades. And let the marches, and did what we had to do. At martin the third, we went to jail together like his daddy went to jail before. I am more hopeful today than ever. Let me go back. Reverend jackson always taught me, stay on your text. Go back to your text. Ecclesiastes. There is a time and a season. And sawook at this time marches where, in some cases, young whites outnumbered the blacks marching, i know that it is a different time and a different season. When i looked and saw people in germany marching for george floyd, it is a different time and a different season. When they went in front of the parliament in london, england and said, it is a different time and a different season, i come to tell you, america, this is whatime of building accountability in the criminal justice system. Sharpton,he way, al during his comments yesterday in minneapolis, announcing a march on washington. Headline from cnn, led by families of black People Killed by police. That march will be held in august to mark the 57th anniversary of the historic demonstration for civil rights, announced yesterday by al sharpton. Comments online. This one from charles that says this, lasting change can result from the death of george floyd and its aftermath, but the direction in which the change moves depends almost entirely on the extent to which the voters do their homework. A text from leroy, punish Police Officers when they do wrong. Lets not forget to acknowledge those on a daily basis who honor the oath they took to protect and serve. This one says, i am a 53yearold and i have seen a lot of police wrongdoing, but i hate to see my people destroying momandpop businesses. I worked my way up and never once had the white men had control in how much money i made. I am black and made over 100,000 a year and never went to college. I will never let anybody have that much control over my future and bank account. I love my people, but stop this bs and pray and vote. Thanks for that. Joy in philadelphia. Go ahead. Caller good morning. Host you are on the air. Caller i want to piggyback on what i think you had a color from pennsylvania. He was an officer . I live in philadelphia. He had firsthand knowledge how the police im not going to say all police i had three young black men for just living their lives. When police do this day after day, day after day, charging them with unfounded charges and ruining their lives, this weighs on people. We have been telling people all along, this is happening to us. This is happening to us, but do you know what really shows people specifically, i am going to say white people . This literal telephone. This cell phone. When people start seeing this recording. Ok, wait a minute. Something is really happening here. I am really not a militant type of person. I look at the people out there protesting, all colors. I raised my kids to respect all colors. But when we have people at the alwayst try to divide us thinking in the lens of political right and left, we are all americans. I dont see, in this day and age, as coming together. We are going to need somebody strong to relate put us together. Host two manassas, virginia to manassas, virginia. Go ahead. Caller i am sorry, my phone was on mute. I just want to say, i am between the age group of 30 and 50. Listening to reverend al iarptons speech yesterday, kind of feel optimistic that change will finally happen because if you notice, this time, a lot of corporations like jerrys,tter, ben all of these corporations, nfl, is not only saying this time black lives matter, because sometimes they would just say we want to speak out about Racial Injustice or whatever. This time, they are speaking out and saying black lives matter and putting up money trying to fight the same fight for us. I do kinda feel this time really optimistic that things will change. Are racistple who will probably still be racist, but like the one caller said, it is important for us to get out there and vote. I do feel like us getting out there in voting for the right type of people within our local governments and the right type outresident also, if we get there and vote and then we have these corporations who put money towards programs and putting money towards the black community, i feel like finally optimistic that by the time i turn 40 will you, yourself contribute more to a candidate or work for a candidate . Caller i think i will contribute. I dont know if i would really work for them. Volunteer . Caller i could do that. Host thanks for that. We go to martha in texas. Caller good morning. You may hang up on me, but ive got to say what i have got to say. People has taken over our country. Those are good people out there protesting, most of them. Those that are burning and rioting, they are evil and we are letting it take over. For god sake, get down on your knees and pray that god will be with us and get over this. I have loved black people, i have loved white people, brown people because we are all gods children. Please sake, i pray, stand up to this people. Thank you. Host ok. New jersey, this is tom. Caller hello . Host hi, you are on the air. Caller thank you for receiving my call. I am 79 years old. I worked hard all my life. I have worked trying in continuously different jobs. I have seen all of the racial years,ities all these and it has gotten better and better. I think this going on now is going to destroy all of the work that was done. I am seeing all of this White Privilege and other thing. What it is doing is dividing the country. Am i supposed to feel that every time im walking next to a black person that he is looking at me because he hates me . Punishedeman should be to the fullest extent of the law. The cop that did Something Like that should be executed. It was aoint of it is, police issue and now theyre making it a black hate whites and White Privilege. I think they are making a big mistake. The divide is going to be hard to really get back to normal. Host our opening question for you this morning will lasting change follow the death of george floyd . The lines are divided by age. One under the you to 30, one for those between one under the age of 30, one for those between 30 and 50, and one for those over 50. You can also send us a text. A brief one hear from mike in new jersey who says, how can we cure racism when we are still arguing about lynching . America has not learned yet. He is referring to a measure on the senate floor. This is a headline here in politico. Rand paul battles Kamala Harris and cory booker on antilynching bill, the rare fight on the senate floor comes as killings by police royal the nation. Senator rand paul has put a hold on it. Lets take a look at some of the debate from the senate yesterday on that. [video clip] this bill would expand the meaning of lynching to include any Bodily Injury including a bruise,abrasion or a physical pain, illness, or any other injury to the body no matter how temporary. Mr. President , words have meaning. It would be a disgrace for the congress of the United States to declare that a bruise is lynching, that an abrasion is lynching, that any injury to the body no matter how temporary is on par with the atrocities done to people like emmett till, raymond gun and sam has, who were killed for no reason, but because they were black. Black lives have not been taken seriously at being fully human and deserving of dignity. It should not require a maiming or torture in order for us to recognize a lynching when we see it and recognize it by federal law and call it what it is, which is a crime that should be punishable. With accountability and consequence. Remarkable and it is painful to be standing here right now, especially when people of all races are marching in the streets of america outraged by the hate and the violence and the murder that has been fueled by racism during the span of this countrys life. Host headline this morning in the washington post. For george floyd, an emotional farewell. Al sharpton used the occasion to announce a planned march. The demonstration would come 57 years after the reverend Martin Luther kings i have a dream speech at the lincoln memorial. Some scenes inside the memorial from post reporters. Pieces of paper around the room marked where invitees would set. Each spaced in an attempt at social distancing. Among them were democratic Public Officials including the minnesota governor and Senators Amy Klobuchar and tina smith along with actor and director tyler perry, actors Tiffany Haddish and kevin hart. Quick response to a comment on color made a few minutes ago. This one, i text. Billys a text. Billy says White Privilege is not about blockading whites, it is recognizing that black people hating whites, it is about recognizing that you dont have to face discrimination like black people do. Host make sure that you mute your volume. You are going to feedback on us. Go ahead with your,. Comment. I am from philadelphia caller i am from philadelphia. There is always going to be racism. One thing that can be done is to make it easier for everybody to be a doctor or lawyer. The heart of man is bad. What, you cant change the heart of man, even if you have money or dont have money, you are still going to have that heart. By changing the social status of people, it may help. I hope it does. Peace be with you all. Host al in detroit, welcome. Caller a couple of things. I think you solve these problems by criminalizing these cops. Training was the issue. These black guys killing white kids doesnt happen. What about the Second Amendment . Everybody talks about these guys that like to have guns. Can you imagine the crowd of people having guns . Maybe if everybody had a gun, these protests would be more efficient and maybe they wouldnt have to protest anymore because folks know they could get shot. Guess if you heard these corporations and you have them in your pockets, they will go out to lobby. That is what is happening. Host angelo in virginia. What are your thoughts . I am black, and i want thaty that to pretend black people are just being treated racist in this country is just a lie. The majority of black people who are married with families do not go through those type of things. They have regular routines and go to work and do what they are supposed to do. When 80 of black families are mothers and fathers taking care of their children and these types of things are still happening, they are not going to agree with that. You have all of this dysfunction and pathologies going on in these communities, and then they want the police to be able to handle that type of situation . What that guy did in minnesota was wrong, but i think all of us agreed to that. All of this looting and marching and killing is only going to marginalize black people for the next 100 years. People dont want to be bothered to hear the truth, dont want to speak the truth, cant tell them the truth. People talk about doctors and lawyers. Become mothers and fathers before you can be a doctor and lawyer. If we can be mothers and fathers and take care of our children, which my husband and i do, we have been married 25 years, most black people i know that our mothers and fathers and take care of their children, they dont go through this type of nonsense. These are for the people out there in these communities that have all these kids, nobody takes care of the kids. The kids grow up think acting like wild animals. Nobody can say that, but i am saying it today. As far as White Privilege is concerned, i think there is more black privilege than White Privilege because any time a black person says somebody white did something, that lady was wrong when she was in the park saying she is going to call the police on the africanamerican man. She was wrong for saying that, but she paid for it because she lost her job. Pollard dean lost everything because she said the n word. Dont tell me about all of this White Privilege. This country is not having it. Dont tell me about this country being racist. Dok to me about people who not function in society in a social way instead of all of this antisocial behavior and that everybody will want to rally and cry around a crack at a criminal. He was still a crook and a criminal and they are holding him up like he was some angel. It is ridiculous and i am ashamed. Glen bernie, maryland. Aller i was pursuing criminal justice career and went to college. Career, i wasege, robbed and beaten for no reason by one undercover and one uniform. After that, i was totally turned off by even being in the police force. The whole reason i wanted to be there was to help people. It became more of a realization that it is not. They profile. I was just walking home through a different neighborhood. I was doing nothing wrong, but was beaten once and then robbed at one time. I switched to psychology just to figure out what was wrong because i dont understand how our police think and how they can cover for one another like that. I would be the one that would tell the truth, and then i would get i would end up with in the alley with five other officers against me. I dont want to be living in a country where you cant even trust your fellow officer or know that he will follow the law. Host lets hear from a resident of minneapolis. Richard . How are things there . Caller good morning. I have to say i am very angry at those officers. Let me repeat that, i am very angry at those officers. But i am even more angry at the mayor, city council and governor. His handssat there on for about three days and so did the governor. We dont want to hurt anybody, we dont want to lose the election. And then they gave away the precinct. They let the criminals overrun it and destroy it. And they sat there wringing their hands. It is just a building. The Capital Building is just a building. The Governors Mansion is a building. The downtown offices are just buildings. The governor and the mayor and the City Council Gave away the city. And now, there is a food desert right there in the area that most needs it. And in north minneapolis, theres a food desert there. Bys was a very poor response the elected officials and im very mad at them. Host more of your calls in just a moment. Coming up today on cspan at noon eastern, we will bring you Wilton Gregory of washington talking about the ongoing protests across the nation sparked by the death of george floyd. That is at noon. Rush andgressman bobby naacp president Derek Johnson and the mayor of st. Paul will be part of a conversation on policing and racial inequality on cspan2 at 12 30 eastern today. The Congressional Black Caucus are holding a virtual town hall on race in america following the death of george floyd. That will be here on cspan starting at 4 00 eastern. All of our coverage available at cspan. Org and on the free cspan radio app. Our question for you, this opening question this first hour, can lasting change follow the death of george floyd and the protests . One line to use if you are under the age of 30, one line if you are between the ages of 30 and 50, and one if you are over the age of 50. A bit more from a Memorial Service yesterday in minneapolis with the attorney for the ford family, benjamin crump. [video clip] as we memorialize george floyd, do not cooperate with people. Protest against people. Join the young people in the streets protesting against the people, the inhumane, the torture that they witnessed on that video. We cannot cooperate with people. We cannot cooperate with injustice. We cannot cooperate with torture. Because george floyd deserved better than that. We all deserve better than that. His family deserved better than that. His children deserve better than that. [applause] all george wanted from life is what any of us want. As Thomas Jefferson said in the , theration of independence inalienable rights endowed by , life, liberty and the pursuit to be happy on this earth. That is all george was asking for like any and all of us. But he was denied those rights. Justice in his name. Unite as a people who are gods children seek justice in his name. Host comments this morning on facebook. Taft posts this. He says lasting change can happen, whether it will or not is up to us. There is not even any point to a question like that, just try to make it. So much journalism is asking people to predict the unpredictable instead of helping inform people how to define goals. Who is going to win the presidency . No one knows, but if trump wins, there is something terribly wrong with the u. S. Ryan, we the people of the United States of america. God is and will always be in may be second, we different colors, but we all bleed the same red blood. Another says, Privileged Group self groups seldom give up their privilege voluntarily. Moral light and voluntarily give up their unjust posture, but groups tend to be more immoral than individuals. Michael in portland testing nothing in Human Affairs is immutable. The slave power was strong, but toppled. Yet, we cannot guarantee it again. Ot rise all we can do and hope to achieve is to hold up a bright lamp and our time in the general dark and to teach our children to do the same for the fight is never won or lost decisively. There are no once and for awls and the struggle for justice is eternal. Ba back tosh ccalalls. Caller i just watched the memorial yesterday. It was very moving. I have been watching more of the video on George Floyds death. It is so graphic that you can only watch so much. How henteresting to see was like a normal guy, getting out maybe you have an suv. The issue with the police is like whoportant just is the police . Are they real, are they fake . They seem all like white males, but from where are they from . Which country are they from, why dont they have an identity. What is this all about . I hope george rests in peace. We have to pull through this. The latter parts of the United States right now, things are not going well. Have got to look at the guy in the white house, what he does on a daily basis to incite this. Too many wealthy white men out there. Whether this about the past is that it has got to do a lot with trafficking. That is all caught up. It was going to catch up to us. Omehow or another i was the last person to think that black men would have to answer for that. Call. You for taking my host appreciate you calling in. A story about the military and President Trump and some criticism from military and former military. The headline in washington times, tradition tumbles. The ranks of what President Trump once called my generals is getting smaller by the day. A slew of recently servicing senior brass capped by goneed general mattis have public with criticisms of the commanderinchief and their concern he is dragging the military into partisan waters. Mr. Trump is giving as well as he gets firing a twitter broadside personally attacking general mattis on wednesday evening. The white house left the current defense secretary twisting in the wind thursday night about his job security after he broke with the white house on the need for activeduty troops to help quell racially charged protests on the streets of washington and other cities. The times writes that the train from the time they enter the revoke byhe open military figures has sparked a sharp debate over the decision to go public with their dissent. Mattis, wtwo naito office several have criticized mr. Trumps leadership or his idea to deploy activeduty troops to help deal with domestic protests and violence. Louisiana is next. Good morning. Caller good morning, sir. As slow as italk can because i am 70 years old and i am a black female of louisiana. 2006, i have been beat up by white cops and black cops. I have been beaten up more than 30 times. I live in a subdivision in my in louisiana. I reached out to mr. Obama because a friend of mine i contacted everybody from the to everybodyral and i know that sheriffs name. I dont have nothing left, no income or nothing. I was weighing 150 pounds. Now, i am down to 120. I have a brother 20 years in the army. He is out. You saidt to be clear, you had been beaten by police how many times . Caller more than 30 times. This has been going on since 2006. I have done called everybody. When he wasd running for the governor. I got all his letters. Got letters and tapes lafayette station got a black man and a white. Host im going to let you go there, we go to plano, texas. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I have been listening to cspan since i was 12 years old. It is interesting to be calling in now. I originally picked up the phone to call because of the lady from aboutia that was talking doing what is good and raising her children correctly and you dont get messed with by the police. That is not true for all of us. Female,airly affluent black women living in texas. I have been arbitrarily pulled over by the police several times and treated horribly. So much to the point where walking away from a car, i had to pray for myself and for him before he came back just because i didnt feel safe. Had a cop walked up to my car i am looking at my side mirror and he has already got his hands on his gun, and he is shaking, just because i think i was feeding, maybe. It was a righteous pullover. He already has his hands on his weapon. Do i think it is going to change now . I think that the picture looks a lot different. Are that people people in higher areas are starting to speak out. People of all races, all colors. I was really moved to find internationally, people are protesting for the plight of the africanamerican person in the United States and the hypocrisy that is being called out. I think that is really what is needed. I think time will tell as we move past all of the hype, past the news coverage, and we really get into the trials of these individuals, whether or not true change is going to be affected. I think that as we start to see some of the select Committee Meetings happen around the things that are going on right now, and cspan and others begin to televise those things, we will really see if true change is going to be affected. Host thanks for calling. Glad you have been watching us since you were 12. Glad to hear that. Expressedar sentiment to what she had to say in an opinion piece by condoleezza rice. She writes in her opinion piece that beyond justice for floyd, systemic changes necessary to make our institutions more just. All of the Structural Reforms in the world are insufficient to remove the shadow hanging over every incident of this kind. To be black is to be forced to overcome implicit and explicit reactions to the color of your skin. It might be dismissiveness or underestimation or presumption of how you think. In some circumstances, it might be fear. We encounter these responses even among decent people who sincerely do not want to react that way. The good news is that these emotions can be overcome and often are with the respect that builds when people know one another as human beings, friends, neighbors, coworkers and teammates. In elk grove village, illinois, this is lawrence. Caller i have a couple of comments to make. Follow the money is used often. The second comment i want to make is concerning the woman from virginia. I hope she watches out for herself because if she doesnt hide her identity, she will be targeted. Is black and years hispanic and migrated here from a south american country. When she says things that are relatively conservative, she got attacked by her own friends. She got attacked by my liberal family. She got attacked by my liberal family that have never had a person of color in their house unless my wife comes to visit with me. Anyway, hopefully the lady in virginia stays safe. Follow the money. You know why racism wont end in this country. If you could snap your fingers and all racism would disappear and tribalism would disappear, do you know how many thousands of people he would put out of work . All of the political pimps in this country, all of the people in the media that make a living, all of the al sharptons and professors that make a living teaching how bad this country is in the racism of this country, would all be out of work. Racism wont end because whenever conditions get good between all of the peoples of color in this country, there is always people there to pull off the scab and start the bleeding again because that is how they make their living. Host we will go to our under 30 line. This is linda. Thank you for cspan. Thank you for the man that just got off the phone and the woman from virginia. Things will not change in this country until we try and get past all of the injustices that have happened. For the woman from virginia, just because you are married and you are having a good life and you made it to the east side, that does not exempt you when you walk out of your door having to think about what would happen to me if i am stopped by a cop. A white person, their White Privilege does not allow them where they have to get up and even think about what their color is. Take things back to the root of how they got to be. Why are families not together . Think about slavery and what our white slave masters put upon us. You were not allowed to be married. Marriage does not justify torture. The only other thing i wanted to say, dont you dare take away from this man who just died from having a knee on his neck by calling him a crook and a criminal. Ahave had a 20 bill, broken 100 bill and had a 20 bill given to me in change, and i did not know it. Did i deserve to die from that . Do not put his name out there as a crook and a criminal because you and your family are eating fine, because tomorrow could be another day. Racism exists. We need to listen and quit trying to justify why things are the way they are. We know why they are the way they are. One of the studies at emory university, go and look at where whiteness came from and how hispanics and other people came to be white, and how you always need a cash system on the bottom and we have been marginalized. Why did we need 50 years for somebody to give us a civil rights bill to treat us civilly . Host that is linda in florida. A couple of stories in the pages of the wall street journal. Chief tells military to stay oath. O their the nations highest ranking military officer reminded leaders of the armed forces of their oath to uphold the values of the constitution. An admonition that came amid concern that President Trump may order activeduty troops onto american streets for the first time in nearly 30 years. Memo was among the series of messages released this week by leaders of all the military service branches. Also, that save page with the story of a News Conference yesterday by the attorney general, william barr. Barr Defense Tactics against protesters, is their headline. Some ofa look at what attorney general barr had to say in the News Conference yesterday. [video clip] on monday, the president asked me to coordinate the various federal Law Enforcement agencies, not only the multiple department of justice agencies, but also other agencies such as those in the department of homeland security. We had a coordinated response and worked with the national with the d. C. , police. Decided that we needed more of a buffer to protect the white house and to protect our agents and secret Service Personnel who could be reached by projectiles from the street. I made the decision that we would try to move our perimeter northward by a block to provide this additional protection. Monday, i met on with all the various Law Enforcement agencies and we set our tactical plan. That plan involves moving our perimeter a block north to i street. It was our hope to be able to do that relatively quickly. Before many demonstrators and that day. Because of the difficulty in getting appropriate forces and units into place, by the time they were able to move our perimeter up, there had been a large number of protesters that had assembled on h street. There were projectiles being and the group was becoming increasingly unruly. They were asked three times if they would move back one block. They refused. We proceeded to move our perimeter out to i street. Host the curfew in washington, d. C. Was lifted yesterday, but protests ahead this weekend. A headline in the hill, d. C. Preps for massive saturday protest. Comments on our topic this morning on text, you can text us. Doug in idaho says this, accountability for those upholding the law is a necessity as much as it is for any citizen. The issue is being portrayed as white versus black when in reality, it is the propensity for those who uphold the law to see themselves as above it. The vast majority of whites support equality but are seen as the enemy regardless of disposition. Can all people in minneapolis go to church or just the privileged . The woman in virginia is totally spot on. This is just a distraction created from the inner city from the horror created in the innercity by the religion of secular humanism, which denies absolute truth. Why are these riot protests not in the minority areas, because those regions are too dangerous for humans . Another says, i dont know if change can happen. 1992 brought attention to the riots in l. A. Hopefully, the murder of george floyd and everyone before him wont be in vain. Back to your calls. In michigan, roy. Caller good morning. I am going to link back to your original question, but i wanted to let you and the audience know, here in shelby township, michigan, just yesterday, the police chief was put on leave of madece because he had glorified Police Brutality statements to the social media on his post. Let me just give you a little example of what this police chief who was put on leave of absence yesterday. This was from his recent screenshots. Tromp threatening to deploy the military. I have a better idea. Unleash real cops and let them take care of these things. Barbarians. That is what he said. And then he goes on, and then he about the police should have been a little nicer. Tt would be nice if some erran batons would be swinging on although cell phones. Blackther tweet, he said, suspects who would legibly attacked a business store who allegedly attacked a prison store owner, wild savages. I wish to god i would have been there. Body bags for those vicious sub humans. This is what is going on in suburbia behind the scenes of these Police Officers, who supposedly are here to protect me. Lasting change is not going to continuance ofe the youth today. And then for white people to get off the sidelines and speak out. Host david is next up in massachusetts. Caller my comment is about the lasting change. I was in church the other day filming one of our masses for our sunday audience. I was listening to the gospel, which was saying we have to take care of each other. I said you know what, this has been out there for 2000 years, and nothing has changed in 2000 years. I personally dont think it will change. It seemsquick, is this to turn into a white on black situation, yet i had the opposite happened to me. I am a white man and had a black women accuse me of racism and lies, and nothing was done about it. I think we just have to keep on thinking about, we are all the same people and all lives matter. Dont make it an issue of color, but i really dont believe that it will ever change. Host story this morning from the richmond times. Majority of richmond counsel affirms support for removing confederate monuments after the announcement by the states governor of the removal of the iconic robert ely statue in richmond. Here is what the governor had to say. [video clip] weighs 12tue itself tons and sits atop a large pedestal. A pedestal is a place of honor. We put things on pedestals when we want people to look up. Think about the message that this sends. Two people coming from around the world to look at the capital city in one of the larger states of our country, or two young children. To young children. What do you say when a sixyearold africanamerican little girl looks you in the eye and says, what does this big statue mean . Why is it here . When a young child looks up and sees something that big and prominent, she knows that it must be important. When it is the biggest thing around, it sends a clear message, this is what we value the most. That is just not true anymore. We no longer preach a false version of history, one that pretends the civil war was about state rights and not the evils of slavery. No one believes that any longer. In 2020, we can no longer honor a system that was based on the buying and selling of enslaved people. Not in 2020. I want us all to tell that little girl the truth. Therehat statue has been for a long time. But it was wrong then, and it is wrong now. We are taking it down. Host a text here from robert in while thei who says, george death is tragic, where are the al sharptons of this country addressing the needless deaths every week in major cities of young black men . Ray in north carolina, can lasting change happen . The answer is a resounding yes. I remember the example of dr. Martin luther king, nonviolent protests for change. In wyoming, this is douglas. Good morning. Caller good morning. I believe lasting change can happen. The most effective way i know to prevent and 11 racism is to prevent or provide means and encourage parents to bring their children before five years old to study, work and play with was born and raised in hawaii before it became its 50th state. Respectd to appreciate, people for many reasons. Almost all my teachers and friends were from diverse races, japanese, filipino, hawaiian, caucasian, africanamerican. In my experience, before i came to the mainland, there was always really only one human race. Host dale, tampa florida. Go ahead. Caller thank you for taking my call. First of all, Everyone Needs to get out and vote. Officerso vote these and policeman out. Tampa, florida, around every one of the sheriffs in this area actively campaigned for donald trump and his racist views. People, if you want to change, vote these people out, get out and vote. Take your anger to the polls. Get these people out of office. Go to another segment looking at covid19 on washington journal. Fromatest on the pandemic dr. Michael sagg, a renowned expert who will join us next. And later, policing under the u. S. Is under a microscope in the wake of George Floyds death. Lecturer andwith a former nypd officer, Eugene Oneill on washington journal. Lived through a loss of confidence in our institutions, a wave of cynicism has less to left us unable to expert, to trust an it becomes difficult to rise to a challenge like this. Our first reaction is to say that they are lying to us and they are in it for themselves. A lot of our National Institutions have to take on the challenge of persuading people that they exist for us, and are here for the country. Sunday at noon eastern, a live conversation with yuval levin. His most recent book is a time to build. Other titles include the great debate, and the fractured republic. Texts,th your tweets, and facebook messages. Watch on cspan2. Cspan has unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the Supreme Court, and Public Policy events. You can watch all of the Public Affairs programming on television, online, or listen on our free app, and be part of the National Conversation through daily washington journal programs, or through our social media feeds. By cablereated Television Companies as a public service, and brought to you by your television provider. Journalngton continues. Host we welcome to the program dr. Michael sagg, professor and infections disease professor at the university of Birmingham University of alabama at birmingham. About looking at the reopening that is happening in many states across the country. What are you looking for as possible early indications of spikes as States Reopen and the summer ensues, and fall begins . What we are all concerned about is the expansion of cases that happens over time. If we open up too soon, then it casese an increase in that we will see, and they will engage with us in a way that is in cases. Spikes what i am expecting to see over the next couple of weeks and months is that we are going to have a slow climb. I do not think we will see a spike. In alabama we have seen since we reopened at the beginning, we had about 180 cases a day, on average. 520 newne 1, we had cases a day. You can see that reopening probably was associated with an increase in cases, but we were also testing a lot more, so you can ask the question was it more testing or new cases . I think it was both. Host was there an inevitability about the rise in cases no matter when the reopening happened . Guest in my opinion, yes. It makes sense to me. What do we have . Hasave a virus that nobody seen before, and that means the majority of the population is susceptible. If they get exposed, they will get infected and they will not have natural immunity. Mitigation, the like we had with the stayathome orders and the shutdown at home, sheltering at home, then people are not intermingling and there is not much transmission. You relax that and people start coming back together and you will see cases. The question that still remains, one, does the summer time lead to a reduction of cases on its own, which has been seen with other corona viruses. It has been seen with seasonal flow. Why would that happen . Perhaps because people are spread out and are outside more and not in indoor locations much. I do not think the virus has changed, but maybe the way we interact with each other. Because we were sheltering at home, we release and go back to interacting, i think we will not see a decrease necessarily, but we might see a leveling off for a slow rise that will happen over the next several months. Then, the question is what happens in the fall . What we are all concerned about is that is when we might see a spike in cases. Host just a point of reference to our viewers and listeners for where things stand. Number ofs, total cases, nearly 1. 9 million. The deaths, 108,211. The worldwide cases are over 6 million. You are the director of Infectious Disease division at uab medical, what is your division focusing on in particular with covid19 . Guest just a small correction, i am a member of the division, a former director. What we are focused on is addressing the epidemic, not only here in birmingham, but engaging with our state Health Department and working statewide. What we would like to do is have widespread testing throughout our state. There are hotspots, like in most states where there seem to be more cases than in other areas. Weidentifying those hotspots can go in and do Contact Tracing, which means you find the person who is infected and put them under quarantine, and then you test the people they have been in close contact with over the last several days. What they do know, and this is important, the peak time of transmission from one person to another is in the 24 hour period before symptoms develop, that is very important, so the person feels fine, they are in a restaurant or at a sporting event, or out on the beach or somewhere, and they are around other people and they could be spreading the virus to other people even though they are not sick. They might get sick the next day. Having Contact Tracing at the point where these hotspots are, we are hoping that we will start to mitigate the epidemic in our local environment. Is there a way that case Contact Tracing can be done, not in a state like alabama, but broadly, as people travel, granted they will travel less. The people still will be traveling. Guest that is a good question. Gumshoe, workned, it out a case Contact Tracing as you interview the person and how you find those folks, there are technologies that can help us. There is some debate, that we can get into, where you use a cell phone, and with permission, the cell phone could have a program or app that identifies anyone within a six foot radius of that individual over the last two to three days and can identify those individuals, even if they have traveled. And then they could be tested. It is a little bit new and people are concerned about the privacy issues, in my opinion, if it is an opt in so you can say, i am concerned about this and i am ok with people monitoring my phone if others around me are likewise agreeing to that, then that could be eight an important tool. That could be an important tool. Sagg, we michael welcome you to the conversation. Forlines are 2027488000 the eastern and central time zones. Mountain and pacific, 2027488001. And, if you are a medical professional, 2027488002. We will get to calls momentarily. The cdc chief testified before a House Committee yesterday. Chief years, cdc message about the virus not resonating with the public. I want to play you some of the comments and get your thoughts. Here he is. [video clip] i think the first thing i would like to see is those individuals that partake in these peaceful protests, or have been out protesting, particularly if they are in metropolitan areas that have not controlled the outbreak to the extent we want, minneapolis happens to be one with significant transmission and d. C. Is another one. We want those individuals to consider being evaluated and getting tested, and obviously, going from there. Because i think there is a potential, unfortunately, for this to be a seeding event. The way to minimize that is to have each individual recognize the advantage to protect their loved ones and to say i need to go get tested. And, in 3, 5, or seven days get tested. [end video clip] raising concerns about the recent protests and the proximity of the protesters. What do you think we might see after these protests . Concern isink the very real that some of the protesters who are in close proximity with one another, marching, especially if they were not wearing a mask, could well have picked up the virus in that activity, but it is not restricted simply to the protesters. It is about the relaxation of all of the stayathome, and a lot of those locations. Going to a restaurant, and by definition you cannot eat with a mask on. Youre going to be in a closed area, oftentimes indoors, and talking, laughing, that type of thing. That is what is going to lead to transmission. Dr. Redfield is correct, there is a concern about the protesters coming together, i think we share that concern not for protesters, but for everyone. I think that is the message getting modeled. ,e are not hearing unfortunately, a consistent message about what people should do. Everyone sees the impact on the economy, it is profound. We may not be but seeing in our neighborhood someone who has covid. Wait a little while, and that will change because we are relaxing and getting back. Let me pause for a minute, you hear about masks a lot. And that, i think, is a key point. What we have learned about masks over the last couple of months is the following, i mentioned earlier that people are transmitting the virus 24 hours before they develop symptoms. What the mask does is it protects the people around you. If you have the infection, and you are wearing a mask, it will thek to a large degree amount of virus that is coming out into the environment around you, so that there is less likelihood of your friends, neighbors, and family picking it up if you happen to be infected. The image i like to use is going back to the peanuts cartoon, pigpen, the character with the cloud around him. If that is what it is like when someone has the infection and they are spreading it, the mask helps protect that. The punchline is, if you are wearing a mask, what you are communicating is i care about you, the people around me, because i will wear a mask and protect you from getting infected in case i have this. Host we have calls waiting. Let us go first to massachusetts and say good morning to barbara. Caller hello, good morning. A couple of weeks ago, a caller to this program raise the possibility of adding a prophylactic to knock down the virus in the back of the throat by doing deep throat gargling, and he did not suggest any particular thing to use, but i went onto the internet and i found a fascinating study, and if your team could write this down, it is the june 8, 2018 issue of Infectious Diseases throughapy pages 249 259. It was a group of german scientists who study the use of zpi, a 7 h called p gargle mouthwash, and it was an in in vitro, but it killed the virus at the level of 99. 99 . It i really would appreciate if you would look into this, because what was really fascinating was that these german scientists presented this conferenceapanese where this kind of mouthwash, iodine containing mouthwash, is apparently used as on a regular basis. Host im in a let you go, and have you heard about this . This i have not heard of specifically, but let us deconstruct this. What this is is an antiseptic. It could be iodine, but it could be any number of things including mouthwash is that have 70 alcohol. I could go into the lab and show roughly the same impact in vitro, so what does it mean . It means in the test tomb, not inside of a human or animal. And you can show that you can disable the virus and kill the virus in that setting. Thingsere are lots of that we come into contact with every day, just plain old every day mouthwash will work. Let us take a pause, does that mean it will not it will work , in my opinion, no. What that would be doing is perhaps sterilizing the back of the throat, or wherever this mouthwash can go. Heres the problem. The receptors that pick up this virus are throughout the entire respiratory tract, not just the back of the throat including the nose, the back of the nose, and trust me, i am not advising anyone to take any kind of solvent or put it in your nose. That would be dangerous. There is also down in the deep airways. They are called ace 2. They are where the virus bins. Binds. You might sterilize the back of the throat, but then the air that you are breathing in, and going back to pigpen, if you breathe in the air, some of it might get disinfected on the way down, but it will make it into the lungs and that is where a person will be infected. I encourage all of us to do this type of research in the labs and whatnot, that i caution against using any kind of solvent or material as a gargle with the hopes and vision that you will prevent the infection. I am sorry to give you the bad news, but i do not think it will work. Host donna in hampton, virginia. Good morning. Caller a couple of questions for you. You just talked about the masks, and it was all over the internet that the who said that masks do not help, so why are people still promoting it and governor still pushing it . It is ridiculous to me. I am 80 years old. I lived through the h1n1, and i after remember any issues the woodstock 600,000 young people were there. Shoulder to shoulder for days and days, did we ever hear of anything after that . No. Absolutely not. There were no illnesses, no mass outbreaks. On longhis has gone enough, and i think a lot of it is bogus. That the governors are telling you, you have to do this and that. It is more of a controlled virus than anything, and my aspect. For yourank you question, and i think the feelings that you just expressed is what a lot of people in the country are feeling right now. People are tired of this, they have been bombarded with information, and it is exhaustion at some point. And, heres the problem. As we just heard the numbers from Johns Hopkins at the top of the show, there is about 1000 people dying a day every day of this virus. We are now up to 108 or 109,000 people in our country who have died of this, and that is more than sleaze and seasonal flu and much more than h1n1, and it is not stopping. We have to do something to mitigate this, in my opinion. Let us go back to masks. What the who was saying that i have to look at the exact reference is that wearing a mask by itself does not exactly protect you. It might help some, but the real purpose of wearing a mask is to prevent transmission from a person who has the virus to somebody else. So, as i said earlier, when you wear a mask, what you are saying to your friends, neighbors, and family, i care about you, because if i have this virus, i am much less likely to spread it to you than if i was not wearing the mask. Thanks about it this way, when a surgeon goes into the operating room, they wear a mask. Do they do it to prevent the patient from transmitting something to them . No. They are wearing a mask to prevent themselves from infecting the patient with bacteria or whatever might be in their mouth or coming out of their breathing. It works. The same concept is true here. My opinion is that if we wore masks when we were out in public, we will protect our friends and neighbors from getting this and that will bring down the number of new cases, along with keeping social distance, six to eight feet apart and washing her hands frequently. Host i want to ask you about the retraction of two major reports on studies on covid19, and just to reset for our viewers, the reporting in the New York Times, two major studies are retracted for faulty data. They produced astounding results and altered the course of research into the pandemic were retracted by renowned scientific journals because the authors could not verify the data on with on which the results depended. One study under clot undercut the claim that certain malarial drugs care covid19 including concluding that the medications were dangerous to patients. The other found that some blood trip pleasure drugs pressure drugs did not increase the risk. The studies were led by a professor of harvard and depended on Huge International databases of patient medical records birds experts that few had heard of. Life into thehe antimalarial drugs despite a lack of evidence. On wednesday, after the two aboutls noted concerns the studies, the World Health Organization announced that it would resume trials of the medications. Why do you think all of this happened with the studies and the retraction . Yout i am really glad asked that question, because one of the Silver Linings of this horrible cloud of coronavirus is that the public is getting to learn and look under the skirts a little bit of how science happens, because it is happening so fast and we are in this giant time of discovery, which is on one level exciting and another level confusing. This is what those two studies were about. We have Electronic Health records and are valuable for me, because i can get information quickly. Another potential benefit is that you can pull data and information on individual patients, strip the identity away, and just use the outcome. Heres the problem, those data are often times in error, and you say how could a patients medical record be an error. Maybe sometimes a data is entered wrong. Sometimes i diagnosis is put down but it is a rule out, meaning that the doctor thinks that they may have that, but it is ultimately proven incorrect and they failed to take diagnosis off of the problem list. So as the data gets transferred to these large centers, as in the case of these two studies, and people analyze them, and we are talking about tens of thousands of patient experiences, up to 96,000 in one of the studies. You think how could that be wrong, and wouldnt the numbers overwhelm any errors that might be there . And the problem is no. Larger numbers of data that are not pristine or well validated just give you a bigger answer that happens to be wrong. So, in the case of the hydroxychloroquine study is complete wearing comparing one peers one group of people who got it versus those who did not, and the people who did not get it did better. So, i think the problems are two fold. Data may having the not be accurate, i think that is why they retracted. The second thing is something called selection bias. What does that mean . The doctor saw the patient and thought this one is a little sicker than the other so i will give them the intervention. But the person who did not get it did not look as sick. , these why sometimes observational studies show that one intervention does not work as well as no intervention at all because of selection bias. The final point, that is why we need randomized studies that take everybody and randomly hydroxy or a to random placebo. Host we will go back to our collars. Rs. Georgia colle good morning. Regarding question is vitamin d. There have been some studies that show that vitamin d may help the immune system from getting coronavirus in extreme cases, severe cases. Of, i have seen low levels vitamin d among africanamericans tend to lead to severe cases. I am wondering, is vitamin d significant in terms of suppressing severe cases or not . Guest well, thank you. I think vitamin d is an important vitamin. It is what we all need, and there are a lot of people who have vitamin d deficiencies. However, there have been a lot of studies of trying to do replacement of vitamin d again to get the levels back up, it is hard to get the levels up, and i do not think vitamin d alone is going to be sufficient to improve an immune system response to either this virus or any other situation. One of the things we have to be careful of, and i want to put this caution out there, if you think your vitamin d levels are low, just to go to the store and buy a bunch of vitamin d intake it, there could be a downside in terms of calcium, and your calcium levels can go high if you overdo the vitamin d. So what do you do . Go to the provider and have them check your level. If it is low they can do replacement and monitor you. Holland, ohio. Good morning. The problem i have with all of this, and i just think we had the disease as last time, the swine, ebola, and i think there was another one when mr. Obama was in, no one shut crazy. D went out and i think people accept things when you and the people give it to them what can happen and what you should do to take care of yourself. And then it went with everybody should wear a mask. It is not true. Wearing a mask can be harmful to some people, and i feel it is a nasty thing to put on and breathed in, and touch it and do everything. A lot of people do not know how to carefully work with match. With masks. Most of them have it down trying to breathe anyway. That is not the real way, and another thing, as a constitutional people have choices. If you want to wear a mask, you wear one, it will protect you. If another person tries chooses not to do it, when god is set a number, we will leave, but we should be careful. That does not mean you play with your life. I do not like the idea of what you did and everything, i am not blaming the president , i am blaming everybody. This was said to be a panic. I believe and i do not want to put you down and say anything about anybody, but i believe this is man doing things. Use you want to lead us and us by using certain things and saying this is horrible, this is just a virus, and we will have them from here on out. Host you have studied Infectious Diseases for a number of years, she says this is just a virus. Is this like anything else that you have seen or studied . Guest no. It is a virus for sure, but nothing like i have ever seen before. A lot of us in school studied the hypothetical of a major pandemic, and we have never seen Something Like this. You mentioned ebola, for example. Minorwere pockets and epidemics. Major for the people it affected that it did not spread worldwide and it was not transmitted readily through the air from one person to another like this virus. We talked about influenza, someone mentioned the earlier epidemics of that. Andlso burned itself out, in terms of being able to be stopped. Within the community, and the reason for that is that enough had enough people had exposure to other influenza a viruses that allowed the immune system to knock it down. The problem here is that this is a virus never seen by humans before, meaning that everybody is acceptable. The first problem. The second problem is a bigger one, it is transmitted through the air. Infected, they start breathing and the virus goes into the environment. If they are talking, it goes further. If they are yelling, it goes further, or singing. There is a case and a study out of Washington State where there was a choir practice, and there were 50 to 60 people in a room for 2. 5 hours singing together. One of the people was infected. 52 people got infected. Two people died. So, the point is that this is a very contagious virus, that spread easily through the air, and can be fatal. Rightsar you about our to make our own choices, you are right, and you have a choice about whether you want to wear a mask and everything you pointed out is correct, it is not easy to wear a mask, it is hard. But that mask is not going to protect you as much at his will protect people around you as much as it will protect people around you. As i said, you can wear a mask, and if you do to me what you are communicating to the people around you is that i care about you, and i am wearing this mask because i do not know if i have the virus or not and i could be spreading it to other people including you so i will wear that out of respect. It does not mean you will have to do it. To me, that is what wearing a mask is about. Host you mentioned ebola and other viruses burning themselves out. Any indication that the Novel Coronavirus is burning itself out . Guest not yet, i hope it does. Let us explore that. How might it burn itself out . We have seen the other coronavirus, sars or mers did burn themselves out. We are not 100 sure how it happened. It tended to be in the hotter months like the summer, although the middle eastern violent virus uttered occurred in the middle east. I am not sure what mitigated that. We are hoping that happens with this. No evidence that it will happen yet. Your question at the top of the hour was what do we expect to see over the next several months . And, i expect it to stay flat, not as far as numbers, we will continue to see spread. I am worried about the fall when people start congregating inside. If we see a surge of cases, it will be a mess because it will not only be coronavirus, seasonal influenza will come in, and we will have a problem distinguishing between the two. Host question from minnesota. How you ask the doctor on many people over age 60 are asymptomatic . Guest i do not know the answer. The reason we do not know the answer just yet is number one we have not done nearly enough widespread surveillance testing because the tests are available, but they are being dedicated to the people who have symptoms because of the relative short supply. We are getting better, but we are not there yet. Hopefully, we will get Something Like that in the next couple of months. Host newport news, and welcome, myra. Hello there. Guest hello. Caller hello. The question of the mask, wearing a mask in public has almost seem to become a cultural issue. , i kind of understand what people feel like their liberties or rights are it goes back to maybe being in the home of the brave and the land of the free. It is it seems to go against of whatltural beliefs rights they have and do not have. I have been trying to figure out how do you breach that cultural belief. Beliefs arethat our to look out for the others, as i , and to ber myself concerned about the other people. For some, that does not seem to override the greed they feel against the degree they feel against wearing the mask. I think it would be, at this point in the summer, if we can. Help, fall, it will also wearing a mask with the flu, and with other contagious viruses out there, or even the common cold. I hope people will come to realize that we are all in this together, and if we can help one another, nothing is permanent, we just want to get through this maybe ail we can have vaccine, or some kind of antiviral medication that will help us, and i just pray that, as people think about this and make these decisions that we will all come together and Work Together in this. Host we appreciate that. Dr. Sagg . Guest i underscore all of your sentiments. I think we should celebrate our diversity, we are a diverse nation, and i think that makes us great. A lot of people have different opinions. In this setting because we are dealing with a very aggressive virus easily transmitted, i think we need to try and pull together. Unfortunately, and this is the part that has been frustrating for me personally, a lot of the science has become embroiled in politics, and people taking a side about one particular intervention and another, there isfor that. That is what i think is pulling as a part a little bit, some of our political thoughts are interfering to a degree, with how we are interpreting science and the facts. What i am trying to do is lay the facts out there as i see them from my perspective, as a scientist and clinician. That is what i think we need to do, focus on the facts and let the truth come through, and then people will decide if they want to wear a mask or not. What i am hoping, just like we came together for world war ii, we have to come together as you said to fight the virus because it is also a threat. It is an enemy, it is just a silent enemy in terms of it spread from persontoperson, and that is what the big threat is. The the caller mentioned mask and the return of flu season. I want to go back to the testimony yesterday and the reporting in the washington times. And experts say the dual threat of a coronavirus wave and a flu season could be bad to manage. Only 40 of americans avail themselves of the flu shot under ordinary circumstances so Everyone Needs to do their part before a covid19 antidote is available. He said this single act will save lives and we are hoping that the American Public will see that the flu vaccine is one major way they can help the nation get through this fall. Guest i could not agree more. More people that get the flu vaccine, the more chance we have for something called herd immunity. That people have immunity against the flu virus for this coming season, and if enough people have immunity against it, even if some to gets the flu, there is less people around them that they can affect and get sick to transmit the virus to others. More than 47 much of people getting the flu vaccine, then i think he is right. We have a much better chance of mitigating the flu this coming fall and into the winter. The other thing is, i sound like a broken record, but i think wearing a mask in that setting will decrease flu transmission to a degree, because it is spread to the respiratory route. Host let us hear from catherine from kansas. Thank you for waiting. Go ahead. Caller yes. Thank you for taking my question. And, your time. About five minutes ago you were talking about doing another study on the hydroxychloroquine and i heard you on three different occasions you said hydroxy urea, are they the same thing . Guest no, my mistake, thank you for calling that out. Is used in hiv, and that is where my background is. Hydroxychloroquine is what i meant to say, thank you for bringing that up. Hydroxychloroquine has been around for a long time, and it has been used in malaria. It was also used for a lot of lupus. With a number of people are on hydroxychloroquine. You have a lot of experience with it, do not know 100 yet if it does or does not work for sure against of the coronavirus. Thank you for pointing that out. It was a mistake on my part. Host do you think it is appropriate that people take it in a prophylactic manner in a preventative manner . Guest well, up until this past week, we did not know the answer to that. As of yesterday or the day before, a paper was published in new england journal of medicine in a randomized trial comparing hydroxychloroquine versus a placebo in terms of preventing acquisition of coronavirus and they saw that there was no statistical difference between the two. For this particular population, people at risk for acquiring coronavirus taking hydroxychloroquine did not prevent them from getting infected. Host steve in albuquerque. , i agree withgg your statement a while ago that this disease and the drugs are being politicized. In particular, i think the media came down on hydroxychloroquine because the president suggested itt he said that he used and suggested that it would be useful. My question is this. The media stated that people were dying everywhere from Heart Disease because of the drug, it is my understanding that it is a prescription drug, so consequently, some doctor somewhere had to think it was good in order to have patients using it. Secondly, for a patient sick ,nough just to take this drug the doctors would be overseeing it closely, and they would know of his cardiac problem, his or her cardiac problems and would not use it in that situation. What is your thinking on that . Guest i love your question, because it gets to the heart of two things. One, what is the natural side effect of hydroxychloroquine. One of the things that can do is interfere with the heart rhythm, and i can get into the technical reasons, a very small fraction of people will gets will be put at risk for arrhythmia, and abnormal heart rhythm that can be fatal. That was a heart problem that people were talking about. Complication, and perhaps was overblown. He was the problem. In the case of coronavirus, it does not matter if you are taking hydroxychloroquine or not, this virus is pretty evil. Once somebody gets the infection , this virus distributes throughout the entire body through the blood system and into organs like the heart, and kidney, or the brain get damaged. So, there are a lot of heart complications just from coronavirus itself, and there can be heart attacks or other types of heart problems, the heart not pumping efficiently, so, if someone is taking hydroxychloroquine on top of whatever the virus is doing, you will hear reports that this person was on hydroxychloroquine and had a heart problem. Where the two related, not necessarily. I think that is what has been blown up in the course of days. This is what is nice about this program that you are watching. We can go into the details a lot more than in a 32nd sound bite. That has that is what has happened. We need a comparative study, to look at hydroxychloroquine against a placebo blinded, where the patient and provider does not know what they are getting and see what happens. Did it work, and where there cardiac complications more in the hydroxychloroquine group than the parsley or stand a placebo. My opinion . We will not see a huge difference in the heart abnormalities. I think we will see it in both groups whether or not hydroxychloroquine works remains to be seen and that is an open question. Host question from paul in indianapolis who asks what is the effect of ace inhibitors on covid19 infections . Guest great question. If you remember to one of my earlier answers about the gargling, i said that they were something called ace 2 inhibitors, and there are different types. Ace1is an there is an and two. Has hypertensive drugs that work against it. There is unlikely to be protection solely from a high Blood Pressure drug. What is not known that by blocking the ace 1, doesnt have any impact on the expression of ace 2. Does taking a high blusher lead pressure drug increase the number of ace 2 receptors, or decrease the number making them potentially more or less susceptible to the virus. It is unknown. Right now, we do not have the answer, let us pull back to pull back real quick. This virus was not described until december 2019. We are four months into an epidemic. These questions are spot on, that there are no ways that we can have answers in that short amount of time. Host we americans expect packages overnight and food to be ready when we order it online these days, does it frustrate you a little bit as a doctor that we want results from medical studies as quickly as we want a package from amazon . Guest absolutely. And not only that, we have gotten used to the fact that if we have something wrong with us we can go to our provider and get some sort of remedy. It might just be physical therapy, but we are looking for something. I can tell you, i had covid back in march, and i tell you the hardest thing was sitting up at night not knowing if my symptoms were going to get worse and i would go to the hospital, and the most frightening thing was i knew that there was no treatment yet. And that is a scary thought, so yes, i wanted a treatment as much as anyone, and we have not had the time to develop it yet. We have been very much conditioned on immediate stuff, hit the remote control, change the channel, get amazon packages to us, get treatment, because of years of research that have been going on for most of our medical ailments. So, there just has not been enough time, and there is no substitution for time. Host what is your view on how soon a vaccine may be available . The trillions dollar question, almost literally. That will be a way out for us. Vaccine,e an effective let us go back to the influenza question in that vaccine. If we give enough people that vaccine, we change the game dramatically, because as i said, the reason this virus is so dangerous to us is that all of us have never seen this virus before, so we are all susceptible. If we get a vaccine networks, it will create the situation if we get a vaccine that works, it will create a situation where all of us will be protected. Our immune systems will be primed to fight, so even if we or immune system will knock it out. So, how soon and how quick . I do not know. We are seeing Vaccine Development at a speed that we have never seen before. Fauci was talking to dr. Not too long ago, and he told the story about how when the virus was first described out of china and they published on june 10 the actual sequence host january 10. Guest what did i say . When they published the sequence on january 10, the scientists at nih pulled out the key parts of the virus from its genetic candidateand created vaccines within two days after the sequence was published. That is amazing. Those have gone on, several of them, to create candidate vaccines and trials. The earliest in my opinion that we will see results from the studies, in my opinion, at the earliest would be the end of this year. Some people say earlier, we will see. Hopefully it is earlier. But, we do not know if it will work, and we do not know if it will be safe. And that is why we need large numbers of people to volunteer for the studies and see if the vaccine works. If it does, game changer. Host here is jerry, from fort river, new jersey. Caller hello. A large amount of europe is still using chloroquine. Africa 2ust sent million doses. The cdc stopped trials on the research. Why would they stop it . Has there ever been a research on the people who have been taking the hydroxychloroquine for years for all of their arthritic reasons . Do they still die from it . Do they get a milder case . When you were sick, did you take it . I am curious because i am a retired nurse, and i know for a fact that there are many of us in this field that are taking it prophylactically, so why would now, all of a sudden the cdc or who who stop doing trials. I am shocked that no one seems to think i was told that when the red blood cells and that the virus. Es with if you take hydroxychloroquine will, than the hydroxy attaches to that. Host we will get an answer, thank you for your call. Guest several questions. One, to my knowledge, studies have not been stopped. We are doing a study right now in our institution that is sponsored by the National Institute of health that is comparing hydroxychloroquine with another drug versus placebo, and that study is ongoing, and it is a randomized trial with a couple thousand patients. And we anxiously a rate await the results. There could be some others, but the ones i am familiar with have not been stopped, nor should they be. The second question is about people who are already on it, as you said who are taking it for lupus and etc. The answer is not fully known. There has been one brief report that suggested that they are not being protected against the coronavirus, but whether there is a degree of protection has not been teased out. That question is unknown. Your final question about me. In my particular situation, as i mentioned, this was the first part of march when i was sick. On the sixth day of my own this is when the french study came out, the 23 people, that is all, and showed that it worked. A hold of hydroxychloroquine and i took it for five days. Didnt help me, i do not know. I am here, i did not die. Perhaps it did, but i cannot tell you that i felt any better. Blood, maybe it did something. The final point is that the actual mechanism of how this drug might work is not known, but i do not think it is so much related to red blood cells. I think it has to do with the process of when the virus invades the actual respiratory cells through the inhibitor that i have mentioned five times now, i think. Thet goes into the cell, mechanism is that it disrupts the ability of the virus to infect, but that is not 100 proven. Host what was the first symptoms that you had and did you have to get hospitalized . Symptom there were several, and they were mild. That is the thing that is different between the flu and this illness. I first started feeling a little achy, i got what i called fuzzy thinking where i could not focus on my computer screen. I had head and body aches and a cough, but no fever. That went on for several days, five or six days, and then i thought it was gone and i was done. Day six is when the horror story started, and every night i would have fever chills, headaches, funny fuzzy thinking, worsening cough, my oxygen levels would be dropping not to critical, and that moment to moment wondering of this the moment where i will need to go to the hospital was part of the horror story. And then, it would be gone by the morning, and then come back each night like groundhog day. I never had to go to the hospital. Away, butays, it went it took another two to three weeks for the symptoms to clear. Host john in arcadia, wisconsin. Caller hello. Thest had a question about connection with the laboratory in wuhan. Are they still investigating that . And they have and how they found anything else about if something escape from the laboratory . Because it started there, right . The test that is done to find if you have covid19, i think it is called a pcr test. Has that been used for other viruses or influenza, that is it. Thank you. Guest thank you for the questions. Let us take the first question. Is a huge city. Outside of that city there has been, for a long time, a Research Laboratory that has done work on coronavirus as going back to the original sars epidemic in 2000 and early 2000s. There is a lot of Research Going on there, and the u. S. Had scientists working with them. There was and is a lot of research on coronavirus is going on for a long time. Or there were suspicions thoughts that, perhaps, a virus escape from the laboratory and went into the community, and that is how the epidemic started. Into thet looked records of the wuhan laboratory, but what i do know that looking at the genetic structure that i mentioned earlier that is being used for Vaccine Development, but it is clear looking at that virus and genetic structure that it was a Natural Evolution of another highly related bat coronavirus that just happened to mutate in a way that became infectious for humans where it was not before. Maybe, over time, we will learn something about the lab, but i do not think there is any evidence at this point that there was a plot to release a orus to release a virus that there was any evil doing, rather, i think there is a clear and plausible biologic explanation. This happens all the time in science and biology, where a virus inside of an animal mutates in a way that becomes infectious for humans. Hiv is like that. Let us segue to your second part about pcr. Time, used all of the since the mid1980s. In fact, the viral test for hiv is a pcr test. We can quantify how much virus is there. The test being used for coronavirus right now is a test that amplifies the virus and does not quantify it. Quantification is harder to do. We do not need to quantify right now, we are just looking to see if the virus is there. Pcr is used all the time. Host carlsbad, new mexico. This is carl. Multiple symptoms asthma, pneumonia, and bronchitis, and i have been treatment with ultraviolet light, and the doctor who is giving it to me said it could it does kill the virus. , howi want to know is effective is this . Ultravioletvirus with an infusion of bicarbonate and vitamin c. I want to know how effective it is because it is helping my asthma, the rest of it i do not know about. Guest i do not know either, to be honest. I think that, if he were to take a virus like we talked about earlier with iodine, if you take that virus in a laboratory and irradiated, you give it high amounts of ultraviolet light, you can inactivate the virus. Does that translate into terms of taking blood and irradiating it, and my guess would be no. Bloodot see how taking and using an antiviral of ultraviolet light would have any impact on what is going on in the long or respiratory lining. The lining of the lung is where the action is in terms of how this virus is getting into the body and what it is doing once the viruses there. I am not familiar with the approach or treatment, and i am very confident that that is not evaluated with coronavirus, and we are a long way away. I do not think that there is great because does plausibility. Host just a question from cory ,ill, pennsylvania coreville pennsylvania. Is dying with covid19 the same as dying from covid19 . Guest dying with something means that you have an illness, and this other thing is present, and it is not causal. It is present but did not cause the death. Dying from something means that you probably, old almost certainly would not have died but for that agent being present. In my opinion, in most cases, people who are dying with coronavirus present, they are dying from the coronavirus itself, and the damage that it is doing to the body. There are some that they might also happen to have coronavirus on board. Lets say somebody is in a car accident. The car accident led to the fatality, led to the death. Then you test and say, they also had coronavirus. Did coronavirus call the accident . Probably not. Almost all of the cases and i wont say all that i would say the vast majority of people who are dying and they have coronavirus, they are dying from coronavirus. Wards in my hospital, it is Crystal Clear that these people would not be in the hospital but for their illness with coronavirus. I would say the death tolls you are seeing are most definitely a result of somebody dying from the coronavirus or they would not have been in the hospital otherwise. Host a couple more calls. This is emily. Ashburn, virginia. Caller i wanted to thank you for your expertise and the clear and very respectful way in which you are both providing information and dispelling misinformation. Interview there was the issue brought up of possibly having an optin system where people could possibly be tracked. If theyo be tracked were around someone with coronavirus. My first question would be, what would need to happen for that to take place and who would be responsible for putting Something Like that in place . Second question would be, as it happens my husbands sister passed away, not from coronavirus. The state he traveled to is one of the states that has opened up ad is marching forward to greenlight state, even though their cases are rising. I was reading an article stating the people making those decisions, like, he lifted the names of people and what their alltion is and they are economic people and there is not a representation of science on that decisionmaking committee. So, my question is, what can be done about that . And just what your thoughts are. With thet me start second question, because that is something we havent talked about yet. That is how our decisions being made . From a scientific way, we should be waiting for the caseloads to incoming down and then phase the opening up and monitor carefully. I think what has happened in our country is, number one, i think most People Living here are tired of coronavirus. They are tired of thinking about it. They are tired of talking about. They felt the Economic Impact in a major way and it is profound either the number of people who have lost their jobs or been furloughed, the amount of income people are making the stock market is holding steady, i cant quite explain that. But people are tired of it. The elected officials are getting enormous pressure to ,eopen, because they see that yeah, there has been a decrease for the, but the cost economy is too much. So they are opening back up. I think the general public, by my read of peoples attitudes and talking to a lot of people is, it is boiling down to, im willing to take the risk. Im willing to take my chance on getting coronavirus. We are going to reopen. I think that is where we are. I dont think that is going to change. What i do think we can do and taken on, is, ourselves, regardless of what the policy is at the state level. Or in our local unity. We can be responsible. We can do the right thing for ourselves and our neighbors. We can avoid large crowds. We can wear a mask, as we talked about a lot. We can keep social distance. It means with what does that mean . It means at least six feet apart. That is the distance when we are talking, when we are yelling, virus is going to go out to about that distance. The further you are away the less likely, even if that person is not wearing a mask, that you are going to pick it up. Crowding together with no mask. All it takes is one person, especially if it is endorsed and you can get widespread throughout the community. Host dr. Michael saag. Thanks for joining us this hour. Guest thank you very much. I have enjoyed my time with you. Host in the last half hour, the jobs numbers for may have been released. The unemployment numbers. There is a look at those numbers. The jobless rate at 13. 3 . In number of jobs added, 2. 5 million. Better than expected, the headline from cnbc. Just a note, the president has been tweeting about the numbers. He tweets this. I will be doing a News Conference at 10 00 a. M. On the jobs numbers. We will keep you posted on our coverage plans here on cspan. Next up, a discussion about policing in the u. S. After the George Floyd Killing and the ensuing protest. That conversation with former nypd officer Eugene Odonnell. Human day,ht on Peggy Wallace kennedy daughter of George Wallace talks about her fathers controversial career and what inspired her to write her recent book, the broken road. Sun toook our youngest the Martin Luther king Museum Historical site in atlanta. To his church, and to his grave, and we went over to the museum. It was being newly constructed at that time. And we were going to the exhibits and we came to the exhibit, alabama exhibit. Bridge, the bombed out baptist church, fire hoses and dogs in birmingham, and George Wallace standing in schoolhouse store. And burns looked up to me and said, he was so sad, why did popeye do those things to other people . And it broke my heart. Said, papa never told me why he did those things to other people, but i know he was wrong, so maybe it will have to be up to you and me to help make things right. 8 00tched sunday night at p. M. Eastern on cspans human day. Q a. Governors, and federal agencies. Order your copy online today at cspan sore cspanstore. Org. Washington journal continues. Host Eugene Odonnell is a lecturer at the John Jay College of criminal justice. He is a former new York City Police officer, and instructor at the police academy. Eugene odonnell, welcome to washington journal. Guest good to be with you. Host let me ask you about how this all started. Int do you think went wrong the encounter between the four officers and george floyd on that memorial day arrest attempt . It is a would say complex conversation. It is going to consume a lot of time. It is a terrible outcome. My condolences to the family. Pointview, the starting is political breakdown at the top. I dont know why Police Officers in the middle of a pandemic are involved in a 20 counterfeit bill custodial arrest. The same thing happen in the eric garner case. The mayors have to give more clarity. Any Police Interaction can end badly. This is obviously a horrible one. Nobody can promise that you cant have some version of this going forward. You will have issues going forward. It is the nature of the work. We have people that are offering up the idea that you can train your way to a point where this wont ever happen. Get that out of your mind. There is no way to do that. The only way to do that is to completely curtail policing. In fact, we see in city after city, policing has been curtailed. In cities like philly and milwaukee, and baltimore famously. Doubtsody had any american policing is in its twilight, all they had to do is look at what happened this weekend. The headlines shouldve been that the collapse of policing. I hate campaign against the police that raged on against 45 years, no fact was too important to ignore. Misrepresentation, this ingenuity raged on. 5000 negative articles, on contextual articles. Not one single article that talked about policing from the urban perspective of a police person. The important conversation we have to have now, we should have had five years ago. Is how we are going to protect in country with the police smaller availability. One of the reasons for that has been, and no doubt will be exacerbated, a collapse in interest of young people to be policed. Want toheir right mind put on a Police Uniform in a big city . What rock would you have to climb out of . Host obviously, looting and writing, the most obvious is a sample of the he called a collapse of policing. Daytoday and cities like new york and chicago, how does that evidence itself . What does it look like . That drawback by Police Forces . Guest it looks like murder. With no consequences. It means police make it to your house. They dont have a whole lot of if youre going to construct a conversation about policing. 30 million calls to the new York City Police department. Amount of work people do there. Its good work they do. And dont recognize the caricature of the people thrown out there. 25 million to say calls, mostly without incident of any kind, not necessarily misconduct, that that is enough to stop the city in its tracks . Now these mayors have a lot to answer for. These mayors who drove the train and drove their cities over the cliff. Mayors like garcetti and frey, who were more extremist than the most extremist voices and agreed there is no institution in the and america worse than the police. The city could be sacked or looted. You could have 20,000 homicides in chicago. Nothing is worse than the American Police. That is where they took the conversation. They cant get out of that now. They grandstand against belize. They told the public that they were some sort of monster that had to be tamed. Youreality is, some, if people die when the police do their jobs. Now see cities like detroit where the police have not been. A Police Officer involved shootings have flatlined. Response time has flatlined. They have flatlined because there is no policing. Is twonversation, there groups of people that have been totally silenced. One would be Police Officers. What would they know . Ive never had a conversation with a cop that i didnt learn three or four things. Of course, the community on the ground that does not meet the police. Or is amenable to police reform. If you go out to a community meeting, it is a totally different conversation. They are going to pay the price. Hollywood hills who have their security guaranteed, taking pot shots and sneering at police. If we have learned anything in the last couple of weeks, institutions have to be defended. Nobody speaks for institutions. Whether it is the police or the fbi. Shamelessly, by both parties. There is no more Important Agency than the fbi in Racial Justice and in going after the terrorists that latched onto these protests. Policing the construct that policing canton badly is absurd. Of people would be in federal Law Enforcement that dont have opinions . They would look at candidates, for sure, and conclude they are unfit for office. And people can judge when the fbi thinks people are unfit for office. Host we will open up our phone lines for viewers and listeners to talk with jean odonnell. A lecturer at the John Jay College of criminal justice, former nypd officer. The line is 202 7488001 four republicans. 202 7488000 four democrats. For independents, that line 202 7488002. If you are a Law Enforcement official, that line is 202 7488003. We will get your calls and comments in just a moment. A question for you about new yorks police force. You are part of the Public SafetyTransition Team in 2013. The New York Times says, blah seo faces cheers as police crackdown. This is in the wake of looting in new york city. How do you think the nypd has fared . Guest i think the nypd has fared well. Records ofs had people trying to fights. Thousands of people have vilified and castigated and got into the faces of an provoked and attacked and used hate speech and have targeted africanamerican cops on the front line. They are looking, they still havent gotten it, they will eventually get it, they are looking for some video that will show the police as a 1930s group with batons raised over peoples heads so they can use it to distort the conversation. The mayor of the city has played a despicable role in this conversation, as have so many other, socalled progressive people who, senator sanders comes to mind. People have irresponsibly to make ground irresponsibly demagogue. Who is the villain in all of this . The villain is police. We are going to take this complicated issue of urban safety take senator sanders, with young people hanging on his every word, had no solutions to the problems of urban america. Talk about a cynical approach. He was a mayor. He ran burlington. All he had to say was, Public Safety is a complicated conversation. He knew the room empty out, so he engaged in this 1, 2, three Year Campaign suggesting that we should be hunting for enemies,. He wealthy, starbucks, target all of these entities that were targeted. Im not pinning all of the blame on senator sanders, i just hisced yesterday is twitter feed, he is confused about whether looting has a value. It is not too late for the people that did this to correct the record. Leasing will not be resuscitated. Bepolicing will not resuscitated, but the damage these folks have done will endure. Who will protect the police if it will not be the police . Will it be the army . People with ar15s . Will every man, woman, and child have a gun . Will he have a strongman government . We have Political Violence . From thecongressman Republican Party shot. A congressman shot in the head. Attempts to breach the white house. These are very serious conversations. Should have been done for five years. What is discouraging as, the conversation got narrower and narrower. And the larger conversation got totally polarized and hijacked. Cspan is the only place in the country for anybody to have conversation that is not insane at this point. You aboutnt to ask lawsuits regarding Excessive Force. Reporting from the Supreme Court reporter robert barnes. As protests continue over the death of george floyd, the Supreme Court is exploring a form of immunity that has shielded police from lawsuits about Excessive Force and alleges civil rights violations. The court could announce as soon as monday either it will except for argument challenges to a doctrine called qualified immunity. It protects officers from lawsuits unless plaintiffs can show that the accused violated clearly established laws or Constitutional Rights they should reasonably be aware of. It is your view on the qualified immunity argument . Guest this is being pushed out to the lunatic fringe that hijacked this conversation. The police and only the police have the idea of using force in society. Elected officials, they made that case. They made the case they could not understand why the police would ever use coercion or physical force. Im in a city that had 84 shootings last weekend. Had 24 fatalities. An enormous amount of violence. Now i have a situation where we are going to give a report card to cops, aerobically going into the situations and a lot of times no matter how much they are told not to, it cannot help but abide. The Chicago Police the other night, in a highspeed chase, after somebody committed a homicide which is basically decriminalized. This is where we are at. We are at a point where the use of forces brutality. The use of deadly force is murder. Policing cant be coercive, ever. Hearing things like, the officer had a prior history of using force. Mayors could have cleaned this up before it got radioactively hot. They could have been courageous, they could have used their political capital. We just saw as how unconnected the mayors of the cities are. They have no connection to their own communities. We talk about cameras . To haveutely need now cameras on politicians. I dont need mean that in a cynical way. 24 all of us like to know hours what leading up to the riots in the cities, where these mayors were, what were they doing . What relationships today have in the community . Most of these mayors, it is a vanity project. They know they cannot solve fundamental problems, so they are going to take the most cynical ploy, these very complicated problems they failed to solve. The mayors became a lightning rod. They said their constituents, the only problem in this country is the police. That is what they said. Now they have driven the train so far and they cant get ahead of a lunatic fringe that wants to put the police out of his this. That is where they are. The center of this conversation now is whether or not police should be put out of business and the mayors in these cities have a lot to answer for. They themselves driving the train. If the police are put out of business, and as i have said, they are going business out of business all over the place, people will not be able to get their own safety, they will pay the price. There are millions of americans contemplating whether they will stay in cities. Cities are going to be very forlorn places. Safe,yre not safe, not cities will clear out. To any inill go california. Democrats line. Good morning. Caller good morning. The evacuation of all police stations should be immediate. I talked to several people toely and they are hoping retrain, to maybe somehow get some transparency. An officer who is known to be rude to normal citizens, his name should be put on the latter in public where any of us can ask and see if this guy has a history. We should be able to say, this this on thisone date and should not be allowed to keep getting pats on the back. There originally goes up. One may be more susceptible than the other. Need to bee things transparent. If these people are going to police me and all of the future people out there, they want to know that they are going to be safe and fair. And that is all this is all about. This is what they are fighting for. Host jeannie in california. Eugene odonnell, your thoughts. Guest retrospect they are not going to police you. Last thing anybody should think its going to be helpful now as a lecture to police on human rights after their human rights were absolutely disparaged, kicked in many ways by mayors. Lightfoot and chicago, after the Chicago Police heroically defended the city in a right, ok . 12 hour tours, got three hours of sleep. The mayor failed and her mission to protect the city. And went on the air the next day. Imagine being a cop watching television and finding out the mayors listing complaints at that stage against the police . Look at the hate speech. I havent seen anything horrific written about mr. Floyds death. I have seen thousands of vile hate speech directed against the police. If anybody thinks the police are in a particular mood to get lectured to by people who would never do their job, never put themselves in harms way, i saw police in chicago, i saw them in philly, i saw officers, many of them white, but they were protecting black west philadelphians. If any neighborhood burns down, that neighborhood will never come back. Cops were discharging their duty in the most honorable way. The media was there. What was the media there to do . Find another story they could write negatively about police. The untold story of policing in is last few days for sure how a few, maybe thousands of cops literally saved some parts of cities. Of course, as everyone knows who was in philly and chicago, store owners, immigrants, vulnerable left to their own devices. Philadelphia was wide open. 911 was not answering. Police officers were told to allow people to loot, which might have been a good idea, but this is not a very good time for people to be wagging their fingers at Police Officers. Have been punching bags. And have been attacked. Progressive mayors have created an environment where they cannot defend themselves. Host want to let folks know we do have a line for Law Enforcement officers. That line 202 7488003. Like in maryland. Good morning. Caller i am a Law Enforcement officer now because the police cant do their jobs. I am a National Guardsmen and i have to get activated because of this pity party that eugene is having for himself about how hard it is for cops. It is so impossible for us to not put knees on the next of protesters. This is a direct correlation between those cities having rights and those that arent. It is directly inline to the Police Officers. Baltimore has been quiet. Because the cops havent been teargassing and knocking over all people, running over people with horses, driving cards into crowds. All of the outrageous, unbelievably violent, fascist nonsense that guys like eugene are responsible for. This guy is an absolute clown. This is the problem why police in policing in new york has been a problem. This guy goes directly from the Police Department to training cops at the cap academy. A. K. A. John jay. Host we will hear a response from Eugene Odonnell. Guest sounds like hate speech to me, but we will move on. Lets look at the data, but there is no interest in looking at the data. We are an environment where you could write a balanced piece looking at the abuses that have occurred, the complicated relationship to the Africanamerican Community. There is no place to publish that analysis. Theou compare the nypd to ku klux klan, 6 Million People read that. If you say the president should deploy the airborne deflector ,eenagers, and shoot them down 6 Million People will read that. We have an extremist conversation. Cspan may be the only place left for the center. As ive been saying to the media, i know these stories poke through when you wrote them. He knew a lot of the more true. You may not eventually know where youre going to take us, but how do we all feel now where we are . Do we feel better today in a country that is increasingly ungovernable . Where are we going to be in 10 years time westmark its going to be with policing having a much smaller footprint. Again, some of the cities that do not have disturbances, some of the cities that do not have disturbances have extraordinary levels of violent crime. Streets that are among the most dangerous on the world. It is a complicated conversation. To do it ethically is a hard thing to do. If police do their job, some people may lose their lives. If police dont do their child their job, people will lose their life. Please use to be willing to take risks. The kindle longer do that. Again they can no longer do that. Great victory for the extreme left. Collapse of policing. Chicago, 7, 8,n nine africanamerican kids will be alive and the next sunday they will not be alive. Host this is todd. Good morning. Caller i would like to know that everything thats going on, a big fix in minnesota wouldve been if there wasnt four white cops showing up at that scene and would have had an interracial set, i think there would have been a lot less trouble. With all of these Police Chiefs showing up on the tv saying, were not going to allow the cops to go out there and do their jobs, it is just tying all their hands up. The new mayors, then your Police Chiefs, and everybody else, they are tying everybodys hands up. They need to stop that stuff. Weve got enough of that in congress and we dont need it, for people to get her on the streets. Know from congress, the, when you make decisions you draw fire and heat. This is a complicated conversation, there is a huge amount of time to have it. I think most people are opening open to having a real conversation, not the insane circus we have. The shooting in minneapolis of an african shoter, an african officer a white, australian woman. You can have this conversation. It needs to be data driven. A city like new york, the Police Department is provably, every metric proves restraint and every possible way. Im not saying there is not abuses. Violent,they do is adversarial work. Ifof the protesters you want to do reform, we can stop making that happen. And tell them not to make those arrests and send the victims against batterers. That is a charged situation that, no matter what the police have to do that. Anyone of those arrests could end in a death. It is very easy for officers to get injured. There were many officers injured and routine arrest. Host this is a question from florida. Should officers live in the communities or neighborhoods in which they serve . Nowt unfortunately, right presence is not making the heart grow fonder. As this conversation goes, more are telling their children, dont even go near policing. They are telling people they cant wait to get out. When they leave, they dont just leave the city. They leave the state. In the whole region. They dont want to deal with this anymore. And you can see why. Take a look at just an hour of the extraordinary assault, the violence, the clear and present danger officers have faced in these protests. Unsupported, with a history of lunatics showing up, urged on by mayors. Mayors are urging a lunatic fringe into their cities. You had three Police Officers assassinated because of the suggestion by mayor de blasio that the police are marauding through neighborhoods and picking on people randomly. How disingenuous. Known, allr mustve you have to do to curb the police is to tell them not to do proactive policing. Just tell them not to do it. Then on the fact that if you dont take runs off the street, lives will be lost. If he said that to the people, and you contextualize the conversation. This is a strawman argument. The police on their own, why do the police on their own care if people dont care whether the city is attacked, people are shot . If the mayor is going on tv and besmirch them and attack them, this is an insane conversation. Weve been doing this for five years. Ive been warning that if we dont have a serious conversation about this topic, policing is going to collapse. Policing collapsed on monday. It has collapsed. Any department is at risk now. If the formulation is, one event, one visceral thing that is upsetting, that is a standard that cant be met. We should spend our money elsewhere if that is going to be the standard. There is too good reasons to spend our money elsewhere. And the fact we cant get anybody doing the job. If we find anybody that wants to be an urban cop, its probably somebody you dont want. Host john, do us a favor, mute. Caller i just did i would like to simply preface my remarks by saying, i am not in any way trying to excuse egregious police behavior. But there are two things that concern me that i would like your guests comments on. One, why has there been no meaningful discussion about the rate of crime in black communities . It seems to be totally toward. We hear totally ignored. We hear about the mass incarceration and that this scenario seems to be the police are indiscriminately aching up blackmails and putting them in prison. Why dont we discuss the high rate of homicide and other Violent Crimes committed within the black community . The second question, matter i would like you to comment on is, in the last 20 or 30 years, i seem to have seen an incredible increase in the amount of destructive weapons available to the general public. Then makeons themselves available to the criminal elements and police seem to be outgunned. I can understand why the police have adopted a more militarized approach. Because i think it is becoming increasingly more dangerous over the last 20 or 30 years for them to do their job. Host we will let you go. Eugene odonnell. Guest member, people of all persuasions took cheap shots at the police. You have seen the complexity of that conversation. Washe first question, which host the rate of crime. Aest mass incarceration was catastrophe. Arrests were made that were chris. Junk arrests. Again, minneapolis, the fact that that stuff is still being handled, we should hang ourselves and shame. Particularly those of us who are older and no better and saw this going, when policing was turned into this metricdriven insanity. And lead to people being arrested for things that are embarrassing. That people lost their liberty over. This whole conversation was people, many of them people like mayor giuliani who is appearing as a Police Expert but was one of the most reviled persons in the Africanamerican Community, wanted to run for senate. Had 1 of the black vote. No residents now in urban america has anything to say, and democrats too, and i got i cap myself and not for not seeing this slow burning catastrophe of overjailing. A country that has no Space Available in college and school, but always had a jail cell available. We need to do sensible justice reform. The Republican Party should unite the country on things like bail reform, which is mostly the right thing to do. There is some exceptions to that. The Republican Party should make that here, right now. The fact that militarization, again, the media that trumpeted this have some shame. School shootings. Terrorist attacks. The idea the police are going to come in plainclothes in sedans and minivans that are set on fire and molotov cocktails are thrown at them, and they are rolled over and nobody could figure out why the police would want to have more equipment. This is the most nuanced conversation. It takes years to have. Learned 25 things. There is so much to learn. Insanity ofss and an ideological conversation is so dispiriting at this point. And where are we going to be . Are we going to do this for the next five years . Host we will hear from regina next. Regina in apollo, pennsylvania. Caller this is regina. I appreciate your position on what you are saying about the farleft. I am appalled you are talking about trump in republicans being a problem. In pittsburgh, along with philadelphia, it is run by democrats. They are both sanctuary cities. People before the protests in east liberty and different places, the businesses, who police could not protect because all that you are saying here. The money actually went to funding parks in pittsburgh. Instead of, or may be more money into schools so we can have more emotionally disturbed children who, when i was a substitute teacher i knew one day that student would be before a policeman like you. The principal said, i dont need any help if they throw a chair at me, so what . You know what . I feel for you, but i think it is time to realize what you said. Police did stand down. What is the problem if mr. Trump is saying, i want to protect these peoples businesses. What them to protect their own property and not the like the police, being injured. Where is the fuss with these minorities about getting coronavirus and being high rate and they are standing together having a big protest and running around, throwing bottles, and some of the whites are doing that too. We had a white man picked up in pittsburgh, im not sure what the name is, he put out a gofundme account to try to get a stupid lawyer. Fortunately it got shut down because he torched and encouraged torching one of the police cars. Host that is regina in pennsylvania. Eugene odonnell, your comments. Guest the president is manifestly unfit to be in office. It is so obvious. Provoking this conversation. Does he think he is helping the police with the kind of rhetoric he has engaged in . The kind of inflammatory stuff while the heroic cops in the neighborhoods are trying to have relationships with people in the most difficult situations . He is provoking people, talking about sending in the army . The Africanamerican Community has a long history of serving this country from top to bottom. Anybody who wants to see it, look at the covid crisis. They have been a lifeline to the country in every role, big and small. Postal service, transit workers, Service Workers of every kind. Doctors, nurses, you name it. The Africanamerican Community has been in the middle of that and nobody can avoid noticing the tone of this president s comments. Either way, this president spoken one of the most insulting speeches imaginable to the police by minimizing and suggesting they should brutalize people. The American Police are proud. The people i know are proud that they are like preservers and they take great risks. Despite very difficult circumstances, they take every step they can. Felte way, that is deeply by new york city cops. It is not because there is a guideline. Cops are proud of the fact that they are able to nonviolently resolve some of the most forney situations. Situations. We will go to van nuys california in the san fernando valley. And here from everly. Caller good morning. Please dont cut me off. I hope i get much air like regina. This is a very touchy subject to me. Odonnell saysr. This should have been taking care of, something in that nature, five years ago. No. It should have been taking care of 40 years ago. My family and i are victims of Police Brutality. As pregnant with my sun son, two white officers beat me 32ndin front of 36 market in l. A. Years later, they did the chokehold on me. My point is, we need to get these corrupt chiefs and corrupt police off the street. They are covering up for each other. That is my problem. This should have been going on. Black, unarmeder man to bring out these protests. People are fed up. I am still traumatized. I went out and protest on mr. George floyd in honor of my brother, donald. 1982. Six officers took the unarmed man on a freeway and did the chokehold. One other, please. When we were going to trial for my brother, the judge sitting on that bench said, if you are under the influence of a substance, the police are not supposed to Police Brutality on you. Take you to the nearest hospital. If you did a criminal act, you are not supposed to be beat down. Police brutality and killed. That is in the constitution. It is under a code. I cant remember, because this is a 1982. A judge said that. You cant go above the law and just kill people. Host we appreciate you sharing your experience. Week i think just this how people poll of in the Africanamerican Community feel about police. When people were asked if they were unfairly treated these days, because policing is done last now, just a little bit over 40 of africanamerican said they were personally mistreated by the police. Almost 30 of white people said the same thing. I dont suggest that there is is, think of the Police Departments in the country. There is definitely people who are thugs and should not be in this business. That might be our only choice at the end. What other choice will you have if nobody wants the profession . From reading the media, that 90 of people in the Africanamerican Community had personally had initial. As policing has been in senti, fewer people have stories. Unfortunately, who plays the price when the police are not there . Again, 20,000 homicides in the city of chicago and other places. By the way, weve got this problem in big cities. You have much more festering issues now. We name, midsize cities. Many ways,cing, and is ancient history. I know people will say, point to minneapolis. But what makes minneapolis not only horrific but bizarre is by the police would be so actively engaged in an event that is, and most big cities, would draw no attention at all. Host a couple of questions on twitter. Says, pay cops substantially more money to incentivize the profession, while increasing the risk of firing from wrongdoing. Question from deb in missouri. Will there be a fair trial for the four officers . The last one. Discussed competence training for police . Any of those topics you would like to address . Guest i pass on that. Pass on those questions. I think time is limited. I would like to break some new ground. These things have been discussed endlessly. I would like to open up the. Iscussion in the last five years it is getting narrower and narrower. Host lets go back to calls. Independent line, rachel. Caller good morning. I am just a simple person, but i feel that accountability is the number one thing in this issue. Mr. Floyd is said to do a counterfeit thing, it is a federal crime. Then all of a sudden he does not know he is going to be possibly going into a police car and sitting in the backseat and going downtown with that. I dont know, even though it is poor people, i am not a rich person or anything like that either. Accountability is one issue that out in theway boonies. People are not taking responsibility for their actions. I actually wanted to circle back on the erica said he , because he has been a Police Abolitionist. Then i can answer that question. The mayor of the city of los angeles has put himself out as being an abolitionist of police. He should, this very day, lee says security detail. Lawld release the enforcement that guards him in his office and the mansion he lives in. He really should, if he has any ethics, the zip code that has the largest problem in crime and he should move there. Either way, he and some of the other people proposing Police Abolition should sign a pledge that they and their families will never call 911. I know there is some people trying to that idea. Member, the police are the rule of law. Without the police, the knowledge the police are available, just on the accountability issue the Police Culture has taken a leap. You cannot have accountability that will get you to the point where you are not going to have a video where there is graphic detail. You will see the mayor saying, the surefire way not to have an issue is not to have an engagement in the first place. That is the thing that is now center in the conversation. Mayor of washington dc requesting that federal Law Enforcement leave the city. , i request that President Trump withdraw all extraordinary federal Law Enforcement and military presence in our city. A reminder, the president will hold a News Conference and about 10 minutes. We will cover that live here on cspan and cspan radio. Go now to lynn. Republican line. Caller good morning. I am sitting here watching and it astounds me. We took a bad situation. Trump,ot people blaming blaming this, blaming that. Look. It is wrong for people to go out there and destroy businesses. Attack people. Attack the police. Could you imagine what this world would be if we didnt have police . I would just walk off the japanese cities that does not stand behind them. Yes, we have bad in everything. But the republicans and the democrats, no matter what trump is for, they are against, whether it is wrong, it is right. That is the problem. Then youve got the media that wants to only go with the democrats. And this world would be destroyed because of this. Even if trump does something good, it is just wrong. If he didnt send anybody in, they would be saying, trump is sitting in his ivory terror and he dont want to help nobody. Trump. N wants to blame what happened when obama was in there and they was down here in charlotte, burning trucks and jerking people out of their trucks . Was that all obamas fault . Host Eugene Odonnell, do you think there is any bipartisan agreement on assisting cities . You talked about the shrinking footprint of Police Across the country. Is there federal money that could be implemented to do that . Guest its not going to happen. Who would be a Police Officer in this country . One of the to notable things from the caller is, this conversation has gone off the rails. People do not have an understanding of the other side of the argument. Racism is a fundamental issue in this society that is a legally enshrined in this country. The police were put into positions, sometimes quite happily, of being the worst actors in connection with that enshrinement. We are trying to work our way out of that. One thing we have seen, in case anyone doubted, dividing people and making the country ungovernable is, it makes people feel good, but at the end of the is comeserm rush at a longterm cost. How do you unify the country . How do you have a serious conversation about these issues . When Law Enforcement does not act,. I heard people talking about victims in the last two years has just gone off the rails. That uld just hope there is so much to learn from so many peoples experiences. To just be talking to people that agree with you, that becomes derangement after a while. Derangement builds on derangement and you almost have a cultish mindset. At the very extremes of this conversation. There is no fact, there is no contrary information that will change anybodys mind. It will reinforce their already made up mind. Host our on the looting, headline from washington times, police say well coordinated leaves capitalize on protest chaos. In the nations capital, this is ken. Caller good morning. I appreciate your time. Im not quite sure where the information is, what i heard some sort of percentage that, could you remind me of what it is 40 of black people polled . If you dont have 100 of black adults hold, then it is an inaccurate assessment. Ause you have to go belong beyond policing. Ive been doing it since 1992. I am familiar. Problem inso a society, and that societys problems are going to affect how you police. Even with the loss when i was policing in the early 1990s. That is not a police issue. The law is created by people. Those lawmakers need to be held accountable. But there is a certain amount of frustration at not only people of caller, minorities including poor white people, that black Police Officers and minority Police Officers co. The same thing. There is a culture that exists that is not a healthy one. When we had mr. Aubry, who was gunned down, it is not effective who did it and the racial implications, is the fact that it took so long for police to do something about it. For the orders to be given because the policies and laws are not designed to protect people. Now, looters, they are criminals. But protesters are not. And i, as a black man, as a black Police Officer would hope that people use that right to vote and to protest as much as people push the narrative to use their Second Amendment rights. In closing, it is not that donald trump created racism, happens to be a soldier in white supremacy. Thank you. Host Eugene Odonnell. Guest just to clarify, these are polls sampling africanamericans. 40 said they were unfairly targeted. 60 did not say they were unfairly targeted. There was actually a more intriguing call that said at africanamericans in this climate, trust the police to be racially fair and in enforcing masks. There is a reservoir of trust. Police are, when all is said and done, doers and actors. And people who live a life of service. They understand that. The Police Continue to be one of the most asked respected institutions in the country. If you can have a conversation where you destroy the institution with no plan for what comes next, that is a very worrying thing. No institution could sustain the unrelenting attacks that we put on Police Officers. And millions of dollars and millions of hours of inflammatory incitement. Again, not that there are not legitimate issues, but a lot of this country now suggests it is more complicated than it appears and a lot of policing now is about service and not doing car stops, not during traffic stops, not doing things that will put the policing conflict. That is the surefire way. Host a question for you on twitter. We have a couple of minutes left here before the president s News Conference. Your thoughts on the current new york city push, an effort for a civilian review Board Campaign or where civilians sit in judgment for Police Misconduct . Guest again, that is so absurd at this point. Its just absurd. You have a profession in new york city that all of the data shows by the way, i also want to say, police have been on video now 24 7 for years. Obviously with some notable exceptions, in an 800,000 person agency, in a city callsew york, 25 million where are the videos of police abuse . Where are the videos of police abuse . And where are the complaints of police abuse . Come clean, open up your records and show the very worst cases you have seen in new york. I believe in something not that there cant be some of uses some abuses in this troubled, the most problematic situations, but i would respectfully suggest some total of all of the videos of alleged Police Abuses in new york city art in total when you step back and look at Public Safety generally, they are inconsequential. Will hear from marion host we will hear from marion in chattanooga. I a great with some of the things you are saying. My concern is with some people who call in. Whenever you talk about protests and the police they want to bring up chicago. Our tax dollars pay police. We have a right to protest the police. It would make sense that we went a chicago to try to get solution but not protest the killing chicago. You think more transparency should be part of the police. There are situations when there is abuse. All police are not bad, but there does need to be more transparency the Police Department. Thank you. Host what are your thoughts. Guest it will make policing better. It will not to be a fiasco and you will have hours of nothing notuse the here you are going to find abuse. We need to know where the grands elected officials slam and have no solutions. People insequential the highest Offices National police. We will go to chris. Caller the police have become militarized, what does the guest about crating a new , maybe afor Police Police code of conduct . That i will pass on question. We need to have a substantive conversation and we have had 78 million times and i will suspect we will have more. Wrap up. Are going to Eugene Odonnell joining us to talk about policing in the United States. Thank you for your time. Guest thank you much. Host that will wrap it up for this mornings washington journal. Much more on today on the cspan and the cspan networks including the briefing from the white house. We are met clear for washington 7 a. M. At we hope you are too. Welcome to the program dr. Michael sagg, professor and infections disease professor at the university of Birmingham University of alabama at birmingham. About looking at the reopening that is happening in many states across the country. What are you looking for as possible early indications of spikes as States Reopen and the summer ensues, and fall begins . Guest