Federal agencies. Order your copy online today at cspanstore. Org. Journal. Your questions and comments about the pandemic start now. The economicent of impact this pandemic has had on our country including a record job loss. Unemployment at its highest rate since the great depression. A decade of Economic Growth wiped away in a single month. Friday, may 8, we welcome the you to this addition of washington journal primetime edition of washington journal primetime. Michaele will talk to boston. But, we talk first to nancy pelosi. Good friday evening. And you are for being with us. We begin with the numbers courtesy of Johns Hopkins university. Worldwide, 3. 9 million confirmed cases of covid19. Globally, 270 4000. Here in the u. S. , the death toll 1. 2surpassed 77,000 with million confirmed cases. Up next, our conversation with House Speaker nancy pelosi. Seen theaker, we have shortterm changes to congress during the pandemic but im wondering if you think this will result in any fundamental, longterm changes to the house of representatives . Speaker pelosi thank you for focusing on how we do our congressional work to represent the people of our country and to bring their views to washington, d. C. We have had quite a challenge. Of ourthe great guidance capitol physician and the sergeant at arms. On two occasions, one with the voice votes and one with the recorded votes when we had a large number of members here to make the decisions necessary to pass legislation. In both cases, Bipartisan Legislation to address the coronavirus situation. There has been a call for remote voting, by proxy and that is our plan. We wouldve done it before but we were striving to have bipartisanship on how we moved forward there. The fact is that some people cannot be here because of their thevulnerability or vulnerability of someone in their family and we want them to be recorded i proxy. By proxy. In terms of longer range, this is strictly for this period of time that we are affected by this coronavirus. We will not now have proxy voting. It is for this purpose. And possibly if something similar to this, a disaster that might happen, we would have a president on how to return to this but the main purpose is to get the policy done and so we are having conversations about how we do the Committee Work in addition to work on the floor. And workedou lived through 9 11 nearly 20 years ago. I wonder the sentiment among your colleagues having gone through 9 11 and now today. Speaker pelosi that was a long time ago and many of these members are new on both sides of the aisle but for those of us that were here, as you were, at that time, what happened then was a bit of a different situation. What happened then and the discussions that followed that was an episode. An assault on the United States of america. And what impact would it have on the continuation of operations . For three years, there were meetings about that and they concluded, they did. Talk about absentee voting but they talked about if there was to be an assault on our capital or something that certain people ame incapacitated incapacitated, then there would be an adjustment in what is a quorum. If theydied, sadly come wouldve died, the quorum goes down automatically but if they are incapacitated in a way that they are not able to participate, what happens to the quorum . It took them a long time to discuss all of that and come up with a formula. If it is an episode come that is one thing. If it is an ongoing, and ongoing challenge as this is, it is a bit of a different approach. And members are in tact they want to be registered in voting. It is challenging if there is someone we dont want them to come if they have a compromised situation and i think most members take it very seriously thanks if they could but for not sharing if they should not. And we would hope that would be bipartisan but we will see. I know the republican members that would like to have remote voting by proxy. Host one of the great traditions in american politics is the Party Conventions every four years. What do you expect to happen this summer in milwaukee . Will there be a convention . What is your recommendation . Speaker pelosi it is not my decision and i sympathize with those that have to make it. As a party chair myself, i had in californias and chaired a National Convention and i was bigger the first time so i have some idea of the amount of work and isnning and thus meant that that is necessary. I have confidence in the chairman of the Democratic National committee, chairman perez, that he will make the right decision based on health and science. Is when i wastion a girl, i went with my parents to a convention in los angeles that convention, john f. Kennedy was nominated. As he gave his acceptance speech in the coliseum, and an enormous me,torium, stadium, excuse when obama did that in denver are come everyone said that was not. Don was the first time. My suggestion to mr. Perez was get a gigantic stadium and put people six feet apart so instead of having 80,000 people there you would have 16,000 people there and do it all in one day. I know what that entails. Have your platform and nominate your Vice President and president and have your speeches and everyone goes home. The problem with it though is logistics. You have to have many more buses to get people there. That was my suggestion to him with absolutely no support for how it could be done but just knowing on how exciting it was to be in the stadium with john f. Kennedy and barack obama making their speeches but never with the idea that they would move because of the coronavirus. They will make an informed decision about it. I feel sad about it because it is such an exciting thing and really important. The people of milwaukee and the state of wisconsin had been so gracious with their hospitality and enthusiasm. Same insure it is the North Carolina with the republicans. It is disappointing when you have a historic event like a National Convention which brings so many people together when you cannot be together. Host let me turn to some of the news this morning. The unemployment report the highest rate since the great depression, what was your reaction . Speaker pelosi it was one of complete sorrow. We have heart break over the loss of lives weve experienced in our country and so many people affected by the virus. Died but theave livelihood issue is something that is so depressing really. Depressing. And i do believe that this president has presided over the worst Economic DisasterHealth Disaster in the history of our country. I think the road back is to turn a page on it all. Let us start fresh. Testing, treating, and tracing and get the magnitude of the challenge we have in terms of the number of people infected and have treatment for them. And then make sure we have the ability to produce the therapies and the vaccines and the vialslity to inject with and syringes and the rest so we are not left just standing there ure or ave a qc vaccine. Let us be ready. What we want to do is with our package the cares ii which is to honor our heroes. Health care providers, first responders, teachers, transit workers, garbage workers all making our lives function many of them risking their own lives to save lives. And now, because of what is happening, they may lose their jobs. We want to help state and local retainents to be able to these workers. They are our heroes. Honor our heroes. ,econdly, testing, testing testing to open the door to our economy. And third, money in the pocket of the American People whether insurance,loyment the loan program and other initiatives. Did i say direct payments . Did i say that twice . That is really important. We built on past bills we have passed that all had bipartisan support. , directd local, testing payments. I would hope we could overcome some of the difficulties we have with the republicans not seeming interested in doing food stamps, what we call the snap program, i hope we can overcome that. Ave tried to get that in number of bills unsuccessfully but i think the American People are well aware of the need for us to do more in that regard so i am optimistic. We have a big challenge to our country. Host with all of that, madam speaker, is there an estimated price tag . Speaker pelosi we are working on it. Big. Host a trillion . Two trillion . Speaker pelosi youre getting warmer. Host 3 trillion . Speaker pelosi getting help to the American People which in many ways is a stimulus, making sure states and make their payrolls, paying them for what they have spent on the coronavirus and lost revenue but no other expenses they may have or putting money in the pockets of the American PeopleEveryone Wants to know how much it will cost but around here, nobody batted an eyelash on the republican side when they gave the benefits, the tax scam to the top 1 in our country and that was nearly a 2 trillion addition to the National Debt and did not create any jobs except more burden to our children. Host to that point, today marking ve day 75 years ago and during the war, there was a tax to pay for our military operations. Should there be a tax to offset the costs to our nation . Speaker pelosi if you are going to do any tax policy, it should be bipartisan and comprehensive. Isont think our country doing well together, there are exceptions but we are all in end together facing this to this so we can open up the economy. The lives and livelihood of our people. Had two unpaid wars, afghanistan and iraq. We had a big tax cut in the bush years and we had to give away to the pharmaceutical industry all of these things have added to the National Debt and as you mentioned, the other military engagements, we have had a way to pay for it and if it was to be a worthy mission, the American People would be behind it. , this is a war as a president said but we have to equipmentarriors the they need to fight the war. Shame on us that the Health Care Professionals and others that risk their lives daily to save other lives are risking theres and can bring that home. Is foolhardy of us not to make the investment we need to keep people safe and healthy like using science to open up the government and the vitality of the American People. The optimism and the entrepreneurship of our Small Businesses and the rest. Leading us out of this. If we do it right and we have to make sure we are doing it right because there is a lot of money involved. We need to now we see how hard it is for some small ownedsses and women businesses and better and owned business to even gain access to ppp. Want disparity and to credit oraccess in access to care to be solidified. We expect it to improve and we will make progress in that regard. It is a decision we have to make as a country. Host i know negotiations are continuing into the weekend. How do they work zoom calls . What are the mechanics . Speaker pelosi there is very little facetoface around here and we dont want there to be. Said, wegain, as i follow the lead of other Bipartisan Legislation that has been passed. To increase funding because we have not done enough testing. Increase of assistance to state and local governments because of their outlay for the coronavirus. And again, the money in the pocket of the American People consistent with what we have done. We do have some controversial issues. I dont know why food stamps are controversial. It is just a mystery to me but it is a difference of values and that is one of the discussions we will have to have. Host is the president part of these negotiations . I dont have any idea what the president does. Host he said that the house is on vacation. Speaker pelosi you know what dont waste your time on what he says. We are trying to get a job done for the American People in a way that brings people together. We certainly have our differences of opinion. We have a strong agreement that we have a responsibility to meet the needs of the American People. Inn appropriator intelligence and appropriations. Agreement so reach we want to get to that place and when we have differences, we will see how we can resolve them. There is a great deal of public attention on what happens next because there is a great deal of heart break in our country. Loved one and the sadness of losing a business or the prospect of losing a business, people want to know what we are here for them what we are here to do for them. With all due respect your question. Note, the personal institute of notre dame announcing it is shutting down. What was your reaction . Speaker pelosi so sad. My mother went to the institute of notre dame as did i many years later. It is a revered place in our hearts. She served as mayor of baltimore sister thatom and a went there. To our very important family. My brother passed away in the fault which was very sad for all of us. Communicant of the school. Taking interest in the interest of the School Sisters of notre dame. Innercity. Across the street from the projects. It was a school founded 100 some years ago. As with some schools, some orools moved to the suburbs outside of the city a bit, this institute stayed in downtown baltimore. It was a wonderful place to go. It taught us what we needed to learn academically and it taught us values and it was the place where we went to mass every day as well. Massot chocolate after which is something i remember with great joy. I Love Chocolate and i love mass. Host madam speaker, when last point. Social media has been commenting on your face mask which also serves as a scarf. Are you making a fashion statement . This is a mask from all over the country im getting masks. My colleague sent me one from maine. Another store in washington sent to me one and a few others. Again come it is a distraction. People enjoy sharing something they may have done that could be useful and maybe they will see it on tv. But in any case, i am a big believer in wearing a mask and not sharing any, shall we say, air unnecessarily accept to talk with you itches which is why i took it off. On capitoler pelosi hill, thank you for speaking to us here on cspan. And from the wall street journal, this is the headline. Risingnemployment rate to a record 14. 7 . Eric mraz writes many economists projected april would be the worst single loss of job loss in this pandemic and the pace of the layoffs has already shown a sign of easing for this month that it may be many more months until the labor market will return to a point where employers add jobs and it will probably take years to fully replace the jobs lost in april. Marking a sharp pivot from just a few months ago when the economy was pumping out hundreds of thousands of new jobs and joblessness was hovering at a near 50 year low. Covers labor and Economic Policy for the wall street journal and he is joining us on the phone. Not only 20. 5 million jobs lost in april but overall, 33 million jobs. How does the economy begin to recover and at what pace . Eric i think it will be a slow process. At this point, we are talking about layoffs slowing. This white doubt a decade of job gains in a single month. We wont see that type of shock at again but we will see another month or so of layoffs before we even begin to hit the bottom. Host so Many Industries hit hard but hospital he hospitality, and toward them, they took a big hit this month. Eric about one in 10 americans work in restaurants so it is a Staggering Amount of job loss. Anythose hardest hit was type of in person service. And of course restaurants. Host and what about the recovery of the restaurants. So many reported that we could see bankruptcies at a record level in the months ahead. When statell, officials allow businesses to reopen, we will see a bounce back from this massive job loss of 20 million but we will not see 20 million jobs returned. If we get half of that level back fairly quickly, that would be impressive and it would still be like we were in a recession. You will see recession like things happening including National Retailers filing for bankruptcy and local restaurants closing. That pain is likely to spread. Host there was a report that we could see as many as half of the u. S. Malls foreclosed and shut down because of the anchor stores that maybe leaving such as neiman marcus, macys and other Department Stores like that. Eric i think what we are seeing with the pandemic is a lot of types of businesses that kind of were already struggling including large mall retailers including unfortunately local waspapers it is on accelerating their decline because it is pushing people to move to a more online point of lossin addition to so much , people are pinched in the pocketbook. Pelosie spoke to speaker and she indicated there would be another round of relief. The price tag . She hesitated but some estimate it could be true to 2 trillion or more. Of the Big Questions is around the Unemployment Insurance benefits. Congress acted to boost those benefits 600 a week. For some that is making a big difference. In some cases, some make 15 or 16 and hour and are now earning more in Unemployment Benefits of they did at their job. This report today raises some Big Questions. Some would like to see those benefits encourage people to go wouldo work while others like to see support for workers should they be unable to go back to work and find a job or maybe because schools are closed or health concerns. Host with this bounce back you refer to, what do you think will be the quickest to bounce back . Eric the quickest to bounce the i think you will see kinds of Business Services come back. We saw job losses in places you dont normally see losses like lawyers,ffices, accountants, consultants. Those types of Business Services i think will be quicker to recover because they can be done remotely in terms of lawyers and consultants. And they will be able to get back online as soon as there is a demand for them. Be mostpeople will willing to venture out and get medical care like a toothache or a doctors physical and those will come online before people will do a present a pleasure trip or unnecessary runs to the restaurants. Host part of this is the psychological impact this is happening on americans and how likely or willing they are to go on a cruise or into a restaurant, take a trip and get on an airplane correct . Eric some in the travel industry including United Airlines are already talking about the fall and the changes they might need to make that far out. A lot will depend it is always true but a lot depends on Consumer Confidence but that has been shaken to the core. Do you have the confidence to go to the mall or a sporting event . That will slow the pace of the recovery because we are a consumer driven economy. Host we also spoke to the speaker about the Upcoming Elections and the conventions. Where will the country be in late october as we prepare to go to the polls . Terms of the economy and the labor market, i think there will be an improvement. I dont think the Unemployment Rate will go much higher although the Labor Department did have an interesting warning that while this is record high unemployment, it could have been five points higher depending on how people are categorized. I think there will be some decline in the Unemployment Rate but it would not surprise me that we are still in the double digits when americans are going to the polls and that will weigh on the minds of many voters. Host are there lessons from the depression in the 1930s or more recently, the Great Recession in 2008, 2009 in terms of rebuilding the economy . Lessonsthink one of the taken from the 2007 until 2009 recession was that there needed to be more of a focus on main street and less of a focus on the financial market. That really harkens back to the depression era where there were massive work programs. And so you are seeing that. I mentioned the Unemployment Benefits. You see loans to small is tosses and the idea help the mom and pop and not the Los Angeles Lakers or some of these other Big Companies that did get some of those loans and then returned them. That is a lesson to be learned to start from the bottom and move up. Host what congress is likely to be looking on will likely add to the nations deficit and debt. At what point should that align the American People and congress . Well, you know, it is the type of situation where when we are in a crisis, when you are in a health crisis, you let the andor do what they have to figure out the side effects later. Are at that point. Lawmakers on both sides are doing what they can to stem the bleeding in terms of the economy. There is some legitimate concern out there. Eventually, the bills will have to be paid. They may be paid by future generations. The good news is that we are in a low interest environment. And there is still appetite for u. S. Government debt so there is probably some capacity to continue to borrow in order to finance the stimulus efforts. Host the reporting of eric morath available online. Thank you for being with us on this friday evening. 20. 5 million americans out of work in the month of april and more than 33 million americans out of work and that is the focus of the second halfhour of thisprimetime edition of washington journal. Our phone lines are open. Alto,g us from palo california is michael boskin, an economics professor and senior professor at the hoover institution. He also serves as the chair of the White House Economic Council during the george h w thank you for being with us. As you saw these numbers today, and realizing this is the worst jobs report since the 1930s and the great depression, how do we dig ourselves out of the whole . Out of the hole . Michael it will be it will take gave her idea things. We have a government ordered supply side shutdown of the economy so we cannot produce a lot of goods and services. People are not allowed to go to work. At least substantially for good health reasons. That morphed into an added demand side problem as people were not getting incomes. Congress and the president had taken action to try to cushion on the income side. The fed and to some extent the have tried to enable firms to bridge to the other side. Many of whom have retained workers even though demand for their products is way down. But this unprecedented shutdown of the economy has caused a substantial amount of harm. We have a lot of people unemployed. The data that came out today of course is a snapshot of what was going on in the middle of april. Since then, additional people have filed claims for uninsurance unemployed insurance. Ofare in the early stages barely beginning to reopen with some social distancing and partial work and some restaurants can have a quarter of their normal people with separations. What we need to be able to do is get firms back in operation, prepared to have employees return and people willing and able to go back to work. And that latter will require people, workers feeling they have low risk if they go back to work of a Serious Health problem and a firms feeling there will be some demand there and they will not face difficult issues that they dont know how to deal with at this stage until there is more clarity. If that starts to resolve and we open up more, the good news is that the numbers are as bad as the great depression, 10 years after the great depression, the Unemployment Rate was still at 18 . People expect did the Unemployment Rate to peak expected the Unemployment Rate this year. I think it will be a couple of years before we get back to lower unemployment. I think most forecasters are looking at numbers like still having 7 unemployment next year. Hopefully, they can do better but it is health driven. What will make people feel safe going back to work . It is a combination of things. It can be more widespread testing so you are confident the people you are working with are not infected. That can be Antibody Testing if we can demonstrate they work. It can be testing for the virus frequently. The therapeutics, before we get to a vaccine, have good results, if indeed you do get sick and you have symptoms, if it is pretty clear you have a much lower risk of a bad outcome than what is going on now, that is another way that will happen. The medical clock is racing alongside the economic clock and it is also important to appreciate that the shutdown of the economy has caused a lot of health albums as well. There have been discussions of but with hospitals shutdown and only gradually reopening now, for anything but covid19 more or less, we have seen people delay chemotherapy, not get brain surgeries, children not getting vaccinated. These are complex calculations that i think are wisely being made at a localized level with guidance from other places. If you remember in 1992 when you were in the bush white house, the Campaign Slogan for was it is campaign the economy, stupid. How significant was the economic downturn to the defeat of george h. W. Bush and are there lessons to this white house . Inhael the economy had been a recession for a variety of reasons but especially the first gulf war and the oil shock contributing. We slowly started to come out of it and by the Second Quarter of 1991, it had been growing for well over a year by the time we got to the 1992 election that people had not yet felt that things had improved a lot. In a technical sense, when the economist said the recession is over, the economy had stopped shrinking. You could be at the bottom of the well and it would be a long time until you got to the top. Once you start climbing back up for a while, the economy is still technically out of the recession. I think it is more when people and theirs are decent income and family are secure and that will be a while. I dont think we are going to be in anything but not very good shape come november. It will be important to see whether people believe President Trump has done a good job or not. N handling the situation i think the early polling seems to suggest people are not blaming him for what happened. They realize this was an unprecedented situation despite the political backandforth. It will depend heavily on a combination of how people feel and number two, who they blame who they thinke offers a better vision and a more rapid path to getting back into decent shape. That is a different question than just who is responsible for the Current Situation . I have my own opinions about what the proposals are and what good they do for the economy. I would offer two perspectives. The other thing that caused george h. W. Bush not to win his reelection was that ross perot ran and got 19 of the vote. Had he not run, i think it wouldve been a closer election. That is water over the bridge. In this case, what will be very important i believe is that if there are some signs that the economy is improving and there are some signs that some of the actions that have been taken are contributing to that improvement. A better casebe scenario for President Trumps reelection then if it is not improving and the forecast of things starting to pick up from a very deep hole. I think that what all girl well for him but if not, think it will be much to offer. Much tougher. Host we are speaking with michael boston, joining us from palo alto, california. He served as a chair of the White House Council of economic advisers during the george h. W. Bush administration. Let us get your phone calls. John from louisiana. Er a question crept into my mind this morning about all of these people that are unemployed and they have one thing in common. They were all businesses that were open. We have a leviathan of the federal government and then we have the state governments and then like in louisiana, we have parish governments. Im curious as to how many and i called my congressman, Mike Johnsons office and asked specifically, how many federal, Civil Service employees have been furloughed . Things areif shutdown and i use the example of the park service, the National Parks are closed. What are those park rangers doing right now . They cannot work from home because that is not the kind of work you do from your desk. Are they still on the payroll . Are we still paying federal, state, and municipal employees to do nothing . Host michael bosque, any expertise in these areas . Park rangers i cannot attest specifically to park rangers who we all love because we love the outdoors and the nurse and the National Parks and so on. A tiny fraction of Government Employees. In the latest unemployment report there was a substantial number of Government Employees that were unemployed. These tended to be heavily at the state and local level including teachers because schools were closed. Workforce, many have been kept on. Some have been furloughed. Some are working from home. Many are working from home for various reasons depending on where they are and with the washington, d. C. Area having been something of a hotspot, there is a mixture. John your is fair and question implied you were a little concerned that the private sector workforce was bearing a bigger brunt of this then government workforce. With some exceptions, that is probably not a bad generalization. However, while there was a shrinking in almost every aspect of the economy, every sector that employs workers including the government, it was heavily concentrated in a couple of obvious places. Leisure, hospitality, travel there were massive layoffs. Willis an area that sadly probably be among the slowest to rebound because cruise lines, air travel, hotels and things of that sort will probably reopen more gradually as people are concerned and not travel immediately when they can start getting out locally. So there was a large layoff there. Other places where you think people would have unemployment issues when this unexpected there were half a million jobs lost in dentistry. Some dentists and a lot of dental hygienist. Hygienists. It has affected virtually everybody in all demographic groups. From historically low levels. 3. 5 Unemployment Rate in january, the best in 50 years. And there were historic lows for minorities and others that typically have had higher Unemployment Rates. We were in a good position in january and we were dealt a deep blow but the unprecedented swiftness of it all because we shut the economy down by government decree which is something that is quite different from anything else we have experienced. It also should make us a bit humble about comparing this to other periods, recessions. We have had other bad recessions over abut they unfolded span of time including the socalled Great Recession. It went over a span of many months. Slightbeen in a very recession heading into that. Ishink the key thing here there is a lot of suffering. Remember, while the Unemployment Rate is really, really high and there are other people that did not get counted for various reasons, not looking for jobs in the last few weeks, a very large number of them who are also on temporary furlough which means they are much more likely to come back relatively soon and more likely hopefully to come back to something approximating the previous job they had even as part time to start or whatever. We are all hot sicily optimistic in this very difficult time that over the next few months, it 23 corridors, a lot of those people quarters, a 23 lot of those people will start to get back to work. Host you write about this for the website project syndicate. Balancing act, the risk of returning to work and to zeroill not fall until an effective vaccine is widely available or until the population has achieved herd immunity. The longerterm consequences of any given response will not be easy to predict. Let us go to alan joining us from little rock, arkansas. Caller thank you. Im just sitting here watching and listening and thinking and hoping there is more than 85 people watching right now. Economist is the topic of the evening. I was hoping that Speaker Pelosi wouldve been available for a question or two. I was trying to get in on a question for that but in any case, i wanted to convey that in arkansas, the capital city, driving around all afternoon our state is one that has not been in an enforced shut but a voluntary shutdown. The traffic and the folks out and the Economic Activity was as strong as it is on a typical friday afternoon. I was really amazed. And people are doing their Due Diligence not to discount that. They are respectful. The pizza place was restructuring their styling for spacing for the restaurant area. But i just wanted to put in a really positive word for the recovery and when i see references that the democrats n using rooseveltizatio let us do a big the way program, i hope as an economist you would convey to listeners that jobs, taxes that are paying for these programs that the democrats want to spend on, just spending money is a fools air and. Errand. To theyou would speak importance of being positive and enthusiastic. Host thank you for your call. And for your points. Michael first of all, i could not agree more that it is important to be optimistic so long as you are realistic. And i think that some of our elected officials are trying to tread a fine line in doing that. Not to be so optimistic that it doesnt look like they are paying attention to the hardship but not getting everyone down in the dumps. There is a lot of evidence that the original projections of 2 Million Deaths come off i and order of magnitude, of what is likely to happen now, wound up scaring a lot of people into overdoing it and hunkering down. They stopped spending and that made the downturn even worse. It would be good if we were emphasizing the ways we can ,esponsibly in various places and little rock is apparently one of them, that we can reopen. I think it is remarkable that you are back to where things were before. I hope that proceeds safely. Things will proceed in fits and starts. Some places will go faster than others and we will try different types of lockdowns for different sectors. The original list of what was essential buried from state to state. We will learn from that the original list of what was essential varied from state to state. There did not appear to be a need for every state and every area in every state that had very little infection and very few bad outcomes if at all to be on the same regimen that new york city was at the height of all of this. So i am cautiously optimistic in the midst of all of this. I dont think it will happen quickly in most places. I think it will have to go on for a kind of a race between getting enough testing and therapeutics and i think we are finally back to a place where hospitals more or less have a lot of capacity. If there is another upsurge or hotspot. On the spending side, i have never been a big fan of a massive Government Program and i worry about the longterm effects of the deficit and debt and what that does for our future growth, future taxes, and general in equity of sticking our students with having to pay for this. But i do think this is an unprecedented emergency and i do think that providing the liquidity as the fed has done and the Small Business loans have done in providing a cushion for people is important. Ashink the big risk is that we have seen in the past, when a crisis, a war, a deep recession, other things of that sort, government has expanded because the needs are exigent and severe and often, once the problem is over, the government does not come back to its previous size after the needed adjustments abated. It is kept those powers and responsibilities after the crises. I worry that will be a problem as we go forward. In the short term come i think we had to have a substantial cushioning and get the money out rapidly. Im a big believer in going after government waste. I dont think we do enough of that at all levels of government but especially the federal level. There are a couple of highprofile examples of this. Stimulus checks going out that are deceased. But they had to get the stuff out so rapidly given the unprecedented scale and rapidity of all of this that on balance them think theyve done a pretty good job on that and will catch up with some of the people that should not have gotten the loans. Holding it up to try to be careful about that wouldve created so much more hardship for longer that the proper choice was made to be quick and worry about some of these things and catching up with them over the next few months. Kentucky, thank. Ou for waiting period caller i was when it is the economy would be back before christmas comes. Because kids all over the world and our country should we not worry about that . Us need to be worried andt the health of people not try to rush into things. Host thank you, jimmy. What do you think christmas time will look like . Michael i think it will be considerably better than april, may, and june but it will still not be very good. High unemployment. Partially reopened in most places at a different pace and a different degree of reopening. But i think we will still be worried about a second wave of the virus as we get into winter. I think that will alleviate a lot if we get the advanced therapeutics that are in stage 2 trials right now. Even more healthful than the drug recently approved by the fda shortening this day and the hospital somewhat. If we get some that are more powerful and helpful than that, and if wehelp a lot get our Testing Capacity up substantially, that will help a lot as well. It is likely christmas will be better than today but not very good. In ohio. Go to john good evening. Caller hello. My question is this is moving beward what is going to the beast that we have to deal with inflation or deflation . Do you have an opinion on that . Yes, i do. I think there is a small risk of deflation given what is going on in the world. I do not think it would be large or severe. Years an example of four into the great depression, prices had fallen by one third. I some things, in some areas think this will occur. There are some things in short supply so whether that is before or eggs, toilet paper and hand sanitizer, that is likely to be more sporadic. Price that hasg collapsed for a large sector of the economy is energy and that has fallen. Imalready very low talking about oil and natural gas as opposed to your electric bill which has other things in a including taxes and Subsidized Green Energy in most states it but for oil and natural gas, the price of gas and so on, that has collapsed. First, there was a dispute between the russians and the and they all started pumping like mad in in addition to our shale oil from the permian basin. Airplanes were not flying. People were not driving. Dual whammy. Ua and the futures price temporarily went negative. There was so much oil that people were paying you to offload it so they did not have to store it. It has rebounded some since then. As economists often do, we strip out energy and food. Not that those are not important that they tend to vary a lot. The prices of other goods and services do not show any big sign of an increase or decrease yet. We will have to keep an eye on that. Deflation causes different issues than inflation but there is so much excess capacity, once people are allowed to go back to work him it is hard to see a lot of inflation in the short run. Many of the things we are doing come if they continue once the economy recovers, remember, this is not just in the u. S. Many other natural disasters, 9 11, horrible hurricanes hit a hit azed issue localized area but this is happening to the whole world and we needed all the get back up and running. Not that happens, if we do move off the kinds of policies we have now where there is a massive amount of spending and debt and we keep piling that up year after year, i think double will wind up causing risks to inflation. Oskin servedl b as the chair of the White House Council of economic advisers in the first bush administration. Thank you for being with us on cspan. We appreciate your time. Michael my pleasure and thank you to your listeners and viewers for their very good questions. Host we hope you will come back again. The is the headline from desert news in Salt Lake City, the sickest i have ever been in my life. That quote from congressman ben mcadams. We spoke to him yesterday from his home. Saturday evening, we had just come back from washington. We had voted through the second the legislation that was directed to the coronavirus response. We came back home on a saturday evening and i was feeling tired and rundown. I thought it could be any number of things. Sunday morning, i still felt sick. This was the beginning of when we first started hearing about the coronavirus. Schools had just been shot down in utah and the nba had just canceled their season. I called my. Are a little worried. I described my symptoms. He said my symptoms, while they were concerning, did not justify testing. It was still pretty scarce at the time. He said continue to quarantine, follow the cdc guidelines but watch your symptoms. I did that. And there was a few days later, the following tuesday, monday i had a rough night sleeping and woke up Tuesday Morning with a fever of between 100 to and 103 degrees. It had moved into my lungs. I chest felt tight. It felt like a belt around my chest. I called the doctor wednesday morning best Tuesday Morning and described my symptoms and he said yes, that sounds more troubling you should get tested. Tuesday i went and got tested and it came back positive on wednesday. It continued to progress. Probably push myself pretty hard working from home. I laid down friday evening and was resting and i got up from my bed. I walked across the bedroom and before i could make it across the room i was out of breath and had to lean on the furniture and catch my breath. I was panting. I felt i had just run a 5k. I stopped to catch my breath and laid back down and called my doctor. At that point he was really concerned and said i should get to the hospital immediately. I did and i spent eight days in the hospital. Host when you came home, how long did your recovery take before you felt when i do felt 100 . Before you 16 days. 10 days up to two weeks before i felt like myself. In eight days i lost 13 pounds. Weak and exhausted. I resumed working from home but i was just off. It was about a month total when i was really sick or in recovery. I had a cuff a cough for about a month. I feel pretty good now. It was about a month that i was off and not feeling well. Host what are you seeing in your state and your district around Salt Lake City . Either they know someone that has come down with the virus come up there is concern especially those with Underlying Health conditions. I am 45 years old. I am healthy. Any other Health Conditions and i exercise every day. I was not in one of the risk categories and it hit me hard. That really sunk in for some people. I think people are concerned but on the other side, there are a lot of people that dont know anyone that got the virus. They know their lives have been dev is dated financially devastated financially. Businesses they have spent lifetimes building that are now on the verge of failure, people are frustrated economically or healthwise. It is weighing heavily on a lot of people. To take itis seriously for yourself and if not for yourself, for your loved ones. And each of us must do our part to slow the spread of this so we can get back to opening safely and get back to Economic Prosperity as quickly as possible. The only way it will be successful is if we do our part to limit our interactions and to make sure that those that do happen count. Peopleing food and putting food on the table. And lets limit discretionary interactions as much as possible to limit the spread of the coronavirus. Utah is doing well. Our governor has been sensitive and encouraged people to limit interactions. People have by and large followed that guidance, and we see that we are doing better than a lot of places. Ofve you are a new member congress, but do you think this pandemic will change the institution, the way you go about your business, whether hearings or votes . It will, most definitely. In some ways for good and in some ways for bed. I have been in congress about a year and a half, and already we have lost some of that camaraderie that existed across the aisle, member to member, that helps to transcend when we have ideological differences, partisan differences. It is important to have relationships to transcend that and build bridges to get our work done. Fortunately, i have built some of those relationships, but i fear the more we are distant and transacting distance on a split screen, on cable news, through a zoom conference or skype call, it is going to make it harder for us to build relationships that help us transcend our differences. I am worried about that. We haveit is important options and, for the sake of continuity of government, conduct business remotely, but nothing can replace interactions that happen in in a committee getting to know your colleague on a personal level. That is really important. I worry what happens if we continue this trajectory of taking that interpersonal out of our business. Joins us fromdams Salt Lake City, he representatives represent utahs fourth district. Stay well and thank you for being with us. From Johns Hopkins university in the last hour, a look at the numbers. New worldwide infections, 2932. In the u. S. , 170. Last 60 minutes, worldwide deaths, 34, 10 in the United States. Monday, our guests include the off. The author of the great influenza the deadliest plague in history, and we look back at lessons from 1918. Democratic senator joins us from maryland. Hearings, briefings, white house and the rest, available on our website at sea cspan. Org site at rotavirus. Thanks for joining us on the friday edition of washington journal primetime, we are back at 7 00 in the morning. Enjoy your weekend, and stay safe. Cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up this morning, well talk with North Carolina democratic congresswoman alma adams about the response of the coronavirus pandemic and a question how its impacting the federal workforce with governor executive Senior Correspondent eric katz. Then the Heritage Foundation will be on to talk about voting by mail. Also National Vote at Home Institute and coalition c. E. O. Amber mcreynolds discusses efforts to expand vote by mail and absentee balloting amid concerns of coronavirus. Watch cspans washington journal live at cspan this morning. Join the discussion. Cspan has unfiltered coverage of thele federal response to the coronavirus pandemic with white house briefings, updates from governors and congress and our daily callin Program Washington journal hearing your thoughts about the coronavirus crisis. And if you missed any of our live coverage watch any time on demand at cspan. Org coronavirus. Collins r. Francis testifying in a Senate Hearing along with the Bio Medical Research and development