American history tv and washington journal or the end of world war ii, the 75th anniversary of the end of world war ii in the european theater, ve day, victory in europe day. We welcome author and historian Rick Atkinson. Uthor and historian Rick Atkinson whose final book published in 2013, the final of three books focusing on the years 1944 and 1945. Started,r conversation just a quick timeline of where things were and how they came from ve day on june 6, 1944 in late august deliberation of paris in august 25, 1944. The battle of the bulge in december that year into january of 1945 and then to ve day. Eighth back to may 7 and of 1945. How did the war end in europe . Guest the war ended with the germans basically deciding hitlers having killed himself more than one week earlier that there was no profit in dragging it out with the russians in berlin. The russians murdering civilians, killing german soldiers by the hundreds of thousands. The germans decided that trying to make peace with western allies, americans in particular, was their best bet. They were going to get a better deal from washington allies than they were from the soviets. Eisenhower had his third headquarters in the french town in northeastern france. Delegation who spoke about what the conditions would be. They were told that Unconditional Surrender were the only terms by which the war would end. The operations chief of the local German Armed Forces showed headquarterswers which was a former technical college, a brick building. Reporters were there and it was 2 00 in the morning on may 7, 1945. Of surrender had been boiled down to 200 words. The whole ceremony with cameras rolling lasted about 10 minutes. That heer told him would be personally held responsible for ensuring that the terms of the capitulation were honored and that was that. It was going to go into effect the next day where they could get time to alert german crews in the atlantic and in norway. The soviets felt it was important to have a surrender ceremony on german soil. They did not want the germans to be able to say that they had , itr been actually defeated never capitulated in germany proper so they insisted that another surrender ceremony in a suburb of berlin which happened on may 9. The soviets, now they russians, consider that to be ve day. To the rest of the world, the surrender went into effect on may 8 and that was the end of the world war in europe. There was still war in the pacific and that certainly had a moderating effect on the jubilation that would have taken place otherwise. No one knew how long that war would go. Host on the timeline from ve day in 1944, did the final victory in europe, based on your research of u. S. Forces and british forces, did that happen sooner than they thought or did it take longer than they thought . Guest it took longer in the sense that after the battle of the bulge ended at the end of january in 1945, there was a widespread understanding that the germans could not recover from this catastrophe. That they have lost the war. What no one in the west could understand is why they would not give up, why they continued to fight, why one little town, one mediumsized city and even big cities continued to resist. There were 10,400 american soldiers killed in april 1945 in germany. That is almost as many as were killed in june 1944, the month of invasion. It was virtually the last gunshot. As a consequence, there was great consternation about whether they would surrender, whether the last german soldier would have to be killed, whether more german civilians have to die and of course whether more allied soldiers have to die. I think there had been hope that the war would end sooner. May 8 turned out to be the day. Host our guest is Rick Atkinson. It is the 75th anniversary of ve day. We would love to hear from you. Here are the lines. 202 7488000 for the eastern and central time zones. 202 7488001, mountain and pacific. And for those of you who are world war ii veterans or families, if your parents served in world war ii, we ask you to call on 202 7488002. , it is a you spokestory about the training for the day alone. There was an accident that killed 700 soldiers. Looking at the statistics of how many people died and overall military deaths, 417,000 u. S. Deaths. On the soviet side, 8. 8 million to 10. 7 million soviet soldiers. That is not just civilian deaths. 190t the soviet union had million people. Total deaths were 26 million. That is a staggering percentage of 13 or 40 of their total population. We had 291,000 killed in action. A little more than 400,000 as you mentioned, all of this including accidents and disease. That is about one third of 1 of the American Population of 130 million during world war ii. As staggering as those numbers are for us, they are monumental for the soviets in particular. The germans lose about 7 million people. About 60 Million Deaths worldwide in world war ii. That is a death every three seconds for six years. It gives you an idea of the magnitude. It is the greatest catastrophe selfinflicted catastrophe in history. Host and the war ending three weeks after the death of fdr in of 1945. N april 12 harry truman, the president on ve day. What was the effect stateside when that news came . Guest it was a great shock. Anyone looking at newsreel footage is could see that president was about was not a healthy man. Feared hent roosevelt to meet with malta churchill and then they flew to meet with the soviet meal or leader, stalin. Those pictures do tell, here is a man who is dying. His Blood Pressure was in the stratosphere and he had all kinds of health problems. Hemorrhage at his cottage in warm springs, georgia , april 12, 1945. The war spreads through the country quickly after lunch and by late afternoon, all americans are aware of it. It is a shock to all of it. He had been president for more than 12 years. He is our war president. He was the president for the days of the depression. There were young men in uniform who had very little memory of the time when roosevelt was not their leader and now their commanderinchief. , aning who harry truman was obscure senator from missouri, he had been a captain in the artillery in world war i. He is a bit of a cipher in the eyes of most americans with the notion that he is going to step in and fill these very large shoes that roosevelt has left behind, something that a lot of people had difficulty copper heading. Host we have a lot of calls waiting. Lets go first to larry in mexico. Good morning. Caller good morning. My father was in the south pacific. On your research, i wanted to know what the role was of the , how much onan your research have you done on them, if any and what was their role during the war . Thank. Guest thanks for the call and thanks to your dad. American indians were important. They had a tradition of being warriors. That was critical when you are trying to put together an army. Wereu mentioned, there code talkers and they had their own language and it was assumed correctly that if a navajo talking to another navajo on the radio, that even if the japanese, and we are talking about the Civic Theater in this case, could eavesdrop and hear that conversation, which they could, they would not have been able to decode it because very few japanese spoke navajo. The code talkers were important for operational security. I think there was also a sense with native americans as part of the force that it really was a comprehensive American Force in the same way that we wanted all ethnicities to be represented by 1945. It is a painful process of getting there to acknowledging that there is a rightful role in combat units for black americans. T black amyris can be black americans can be excellent fighters as the Tuskegee Airmen who got into combat showed. For native americans, it was a feeling that first of all they have practical skills that were second, it is an affirmation that this is a panamerican war. From annapolis, maryland. Welcome. Caller yes. Our dad fought in world war ii in the pacific. He had Four Brothers lost. He had another uncle who fought in the civic in the navy. My dad was a secondgeneration italian american. Against italian americans is less against japaneseamerican. Im wondering why that was true. And the second question, dropping the atomic bomb is probably the reason im talking to you today and wondering how that impact had on the outcome of the war and the ability of more american soldiers to survive. Thank you. Host thank you. Guest thanks for the call and the question. Yes, i think it is fair to say that the prejudices against italian americans were considerably less than they were against japanese americans. Italians were our adversaries up until 1943 and they switched sides and became our ally. The italians did not launch the kind of attack that occurred at pearl harbor in 1941. I think there is a racial component to it. To dislikewas easier asians, japanese specifically. Of course, they were treated dreadfully. We were just talking about native americans in the force. Japanese americans who fought valiantly in italy and france during world war ii, they were exceptionally capable and ferocious fighters. They had something to prove because back home there had been tens of thousands of japanese who had been interned in camps. Only secondclass citizens, but as noncitizens. In respect to the atomic bombs, yes, i think that the two atomic bombs dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki brought an end to the war in the pacific and probably saved hundreds of thousands of american lives. May 8,e day occurs on 1945, one of the reasons the jubilation is not as it was is that the battle is occurring precisely. It was a cave by cave bloodletting. What it would be in attacking the japanese islands directly. There were estimates that american casualties could rise to one million if that were required. When ve day occurs in 1945, no one knows about the atomic bombs except they small group of businesses in new mexico. No one knows whether it is going to work. Those bombs, as horrible as they were, brings the war to an absolute truncated end. It saves Many American lives. It saved even more japanese lives. Russians were ready to come in. The war was going to expand in the pacific because the russians had agreed to be part of it. The atomic bombs saved a lot of heartache. Host we are talking about the end of world war ii and the european theater. The 75 anniversary of ve day heath from us is davidson, oklahoma. Caller hello. Host good morning. You are on the air. Caller thank you. May 6,was over there on 1945. 15got on a ship on may headed for the pacific. And we stopped by the United States. We would fly in v 24s and we would train on b 29 for a couple of weeks and go into the pacific. During that period of time, they dropped the bomb and ended the war in the pacific. Theombed all of europe from base in italy. Heath, great to have you with us. Thank you for your story. Rick atkinson, how quickly was the military to pivot the focus on the Pacific Theater . Europethe commanders in had been thinking about how to take a good portion of that force and move it to the pacific and how you would do that and who would go and what had failed for those who have been fighting in north africa in 1942 and in italy in 1943 and 1944. And for them to have to find the pacific. There were plans that had been put together. There were units being shifted as he just said in may of 1945. They were getting ready to retrain for the assault on the japanese homeland. 29 he mentioned was the first of long range bombers ,oing extraordinary work devastating japan. They were used to drop those two atomic bombs. Ares the belief that you going to have to take a good portion of that european force, leaving some behind as an army of occupation. But the majority of it was going to end up in the pacific. Host in the wall street journal, there is a photo of eisenhower flashing the victory pans at the signing ceremony. Rick atkinson, one of your early interviews in 2002 for your first book, you said that in a different photograph that the photograph reflected a buoyancy of spirit that served him well. You are right you write in your final book that his fellow commander and some of the allied commanders were not confident that he was the commander type. The british in particular had doubts about eisenhower. Not all of them. Some of them revered him. He had difficulties through the. Ntire final year of the war the senior british commander in europe, a very difficult character, it must be said. There were those who had doubts about eisenhower. There were those who had doubts when he had became the commander in the mediterranean in 1942. He and his west point classmate had missed world war i, they had not been deployed. There was a feeling that here is this guy and why is he the one to be the supreme commander. Eisenhowerh dwight. Etaphorically for 15 years he was an extraordinarily capable leader. He was an extremely capable general and his primary job was to hold together this allied coalition. Eventually there were more than 50 countries in what was called the United Nations fighting with the United States. Eisenhower was brilliant at Holding Together that coalition against all of the centripetal forces that tried to pull apart every wartime coalition. At the ends honors of the war are fairly earned. He showed himself to be a capable commander and that big smile of his which one of the subordinates said was worth an army corps in morale terms. Host was here next from st. Petersburg, florida. Tom, you are on the air. Caller my name is tom and the reason im calling is i often wondered who engineered the end of the war. Was it admiral dorn is and secondly, did he believe throughout his entire career that his losses in the atlantic were not caused by the anemic machine. Thirdly, what happened to him at the end of the war. That is a lot of questions. He was the commander of the german navy at the end of the war. There was not much of a german navy to command at that point. The german submarine force had been almost completely destroyed by may of 1945. In terms of ingenuity at the end of the war, there were conversations among those who were still surviving in berlin and northwest of berlin about how to go about contacting the allies and how to go about bringing this catastrophe to a close. Hitlers having killed himself 30th, hannah tried to pull the temple down around him as he perished. Had tried. But not everyone was willing to take that route, not everyone was suicidal. Been an agreement that they would send a delegation to allied headquarters in montgomery. And then they end up at eisenhowers headquarters. It up as they go along. They are very aware that every day that passes, there are more germans who fall under soviet control. This they are determined to avoid. They are trying to stall as long as they can to allow germans to flee westward and they are fleeing westward by the hundreds of thousands and eventually the aliens in order to avoid being under soviet control. The final decision is made that we are going to give up and conceded to the allied demand of unconditional render, at that point Unconditional Surrender. Host steve from rhode island. Caller good morning. I would like to make a comment. The war was decided on the eastern front. The western front was a skirmish compared to the eastern front. There would not have been any western front, there would have been a settlement. The most important issue i want to state is the russian crime when they entered berlin and over 2 million german women were raped by those communist animals. And mygermanamerican father is a germanamerican who served in the italian campaign. Host steve, we will get a response from Rick Atkinson. Guest thank you for the call, steve. There were war crimes of the first order committed by the soviets in berlin and all of Eastern Europe as they overran into thed pushed eastern precincts of the german empire. The ways that the soviets were ofng that besides the lack discipline was the feeling that the depravity that the germans had visited on the soviet Union Beginning with the invasion in 1941 and extending right on german the end of the was to pay in kind. Was out of control in ways that no one can perceive at the beginning and this is a good example of the atrocities the germans committed or repaid probably with interest either russians. By the russians. The weightnly carry of the war for all of the allies. Soviet soldiers killed nine german soldiers for every one who was killed by british and american troops combined. I mentioned 26th millions dead. It dad was vital to have them remain as part of it. Host it is the 75th anniversary of ve day. ,e are joined by Rick Atkinson the author of the liberation trilogy. It is a three book series on the war in the european theater. More of your calls and comments coming up momentarily. We are joined next by senator roberts of kansas, chair of the eisenhower memorial commission. Senator, we saw you yesterday on the floor with your eye like ike button i like button. You were a youngster when that happened. Tell us about that. Guest actually, the button says i still like ike. We handed them out at the congressional lunch yesterday. They were a hot item. I think most of my memories came when i was 16 and i got to go to the Republican Convention in 1952 where eisenhower won on the first ballot as opposed to robert taft. And then again during the inaugural and those are the only times i personally met the man. That was back in kansas. I remember that day as i was swinging on the front porch and my mom came in with tears in her eyes and she said we have andated hitlers hitler. I asked her, does that mean dad can come home. Not at that time. He was in the pacific. Jima. A marine in iwo at any rate, the one thing i remember about him, you knew he came into the room even though your back was to him. He had that presence. He had a very ready case. A wonderful smile. Host we are talking about eisenhowers role in the victory in europe. We are talking to you about the eisenhower memorial. General eisenhower led the allies to victory in europe and served two terms as president. Why has it taken so long for a memorial to be created in washington for president eisenhower . Guest it is amazing how many groups that you have to go through, the National CapitalPlanning Commission and the fine arts council, etc. You have to raise the money and have federal funds. You have to have all members of the family on board. There were changes, i was the second german way back chairman. Fromedal of honor winner the senator from hawaii and senator ted stevens, two veterans who pushed very hard on this. If you take a look at the memorials, not many are built on a rapid basis. It takes a stepbystep. Simple. Ess is not you have site selection, design approvals, construction, it is a monumental undertaking. We arethat terrible pun. Thrilled to see the hardwood come to fruition. It is done and all we have to do until when social distancing will not be much of a problem. If it still is, we will have the dedication accordingly. Host it was supposed to be ofay on the 75th anniversary ve day. What were you going to say in that dedication . Guest i think i had four minutes. The president had accepted the invitation to speak. We had a flyover. Basically the eisenhower family would have spoken. We had a number of world war ii utterance including bob dole veterans, who really helped raising money on the private side of it. Hink this remortgage memorial honors not only an extraordinary man, but i think he served as a symbol for all generations of the promise of our values made possible around the world. I think he really was the wasident that basically president when we entered the world stage and especially when he was the supreme allied commander in europe. Senator from kansas, we look forward to the dedication when that happens every thank you so much for joining us this morning on the 75th anniversary of ve day. And back to our guest, rick your calls andg comments on this 75th anniversary. James is in south dakota. Go ahead. Retired air force, i was 9 11aqi war veteran post saudi arabia, ground zero. I served one year in korea. Fundraiser with my dad, he was a world war ii veteran. He delivered coffins and there were a lot of them. Graduated. 945, he i was calling to thank all the veterans and share a little history. Host thanks, james. Rick atkinson, your dad served in world war ii and he was a career military veteran. What was that experience in particular like, ve day, when that will come up every year with your dad would come up . He enlisted in the army after he turned 18 in 1942. He went to ocs and became the Second Lieutenant and got to europe after the war ended. The occupational force in bavaria with Extraordinary Police powers because germany was in ruins and anarchy was a big threat in bavaria and every will else everywhere else. He went back into the army and liked it well enough to make it a career and he served for 30 years. He died 18 months ago at the age of 90 or. Ve day was not anything particular in his review worldview. These were important holidays for him as they are for many of us. , it was debated about whether or not we would end up in the pacific. Orton at least for me and for him, that was not necessary fortunately for me. Father having gone back into the army, went back to europe and was part of the army of occupation of salzburg and the Army Hospital happened to be in munich and austria was still petitioned and he was part of the occupation of austria until 1955 when the russians and americans both left austria. Warresidual effects of the have persisted in many ways and even 10 years after, we still had occupational forces in austria and to this day we have American Forces in germany. They are not Occupation Forces because there they are our allies now. Military topography was profound and affected me personally and certainly my father. Host next up is robert calling from virginia. Morning, gentlemen. Bothandfather served in theaters. He was in the navy during the european conflict and when they decided they would call it quits, ve day, he transferred over to the United States remain marine corps so that he could go to the Pacific Theater. And thanky saw action god he came home to us. He served in two different branches of service and two theaters of war. Questions . Pecific caller is it true that during the Second World War they had a acret group of nazis to make after the war. Forthrike. Guest there were certainly good nazis who got away and escape either the hangman or present. Prison. Some of them went to south america and there were a few who had ambitions of either reich. Ituting the german this is a fringe group not to be taken seriously. Those who may have had ambitions to put together the tattered remnants of the german is higher and reconstitute it in some fashion. In germany and elsewhere, it is not just germans by any means who feel that the. Of the third. Eich somehow should be honored you cannot legally be a nazi in germany. The germans have been extraordinarily capable at educating all germans, germans,rly younger about what had happened and who was responsible. Outit is difficult to snuff this virus. We see it cropping up in hungary and other places in Eastern Europe. We see sparks of it in portions of germany. It is very concerning. Wherever there is a populace who wants to take the neofascism. Ism or that is a greater concern than any residual of nazis from 1945. Your lastwrote in book about the discovery of a trove of treasures after the remains of the war. How did allied forces prevent looting of that and prevent revenge violence against germans who may have been prisoners or in pursuit of german troops . Guest the germans were great thieves. Nazis had looted artworks and treasures of all sorts from individuals and galleries and museums all across occupied europe. To discover that stuff and get back to the original owners is a process that goes on to this day. It was a great concern. When american soldiers liberated the concentration camp and saw tens of thousands in emaciated conditions and thousands who had , there were american soldiers who lost control and discipline broke down and there are an estimated several dozen german camp guards who were murdered either by the americans, in one place they put them up against the wall and murder them with a machine gun or they were murdered by inmates who got into a frenzy until order was restored. There was concern about this for the most part, discipline of pain, there were a number of revenge killings by american troops and western allied troops. Was admirable. About the soviet troops coming from the east, that was part of the price and the pain of victory. And lets go back to calls here from florence in minnesota. Caller two comments. I always admired eisenhower for having to pull in citizens from the town near the concentration camps so that they could witness what the nazis did, but that is not my question. My question is studying world war ii is so impactful for understanding where we are today from a political, military, and social perspective. Thatan count on particularly as it relates to the politics involved in making the atomic and hydrogen bombs. Thank you for the opportunity and i look forward to hearing your comments. Guest thanks for the call. The consequences of world war ii , socially,dinary politically, militarily. Socially in this country argues on gender and racial equality are shaped by the experiences in world war ii. There were black americans, hundreds of thousands of them, mostly in in the war allblack units. It was a segregated military. Double vhem had a campaign. Victory against fascism overseas and the rate against racism at home. Victory against racism at home. Experience was a propulsion system for the Civil Rights Movement after the war. The same for gender equality. These 19 million american women working outside of the home during world war ii, many of them went back to the homemakers after the war. It showed women, that they had an opportunity to do whatever men could do, that they could do things that men could do as well, if not better. Whether it was working in a science lab, teaching in college, whatever. These very large social imprints that come out of the war are witness to this day and shape the culture and the society, the economy in extraordinarily profound ways that we still see 75 years later. Host we will put our viewers and listeners to Rick Atkinsons views on a piece in the wall street journal, ve day, a photo worth defending. Belgiumr wounded in standing near Grand Central station on may 7, 1945. Holly springs, North Carolina is next. Linda, good morning. Caller thank you for taking my call. Uncle fromunt and northern italy who told stories about resistance by many italians and how i rated they were on liberation day. Irate. Our current family reminds us on april 5 april 25, there liberation day and how sad they are that many of their elder survivors passed away due to covid19. They feel like they are in battle again. My question is what were the italian terms of liberation and where they are still germans in italy fighting at that time . Guest yes, there were germans in italy until may of 1945. Decidedians in 1943 had after making an alliance with of steelns, the impact that mussolini and hitlers put er. In 1943 hitl there were negotiations between the americans, reddish, and italians. In 1943 the italians switched sides. Not all of them switched sides. State that rough prevailed in northern italy supported by the germans. The fighting in italy which had began with our invasion would continue right to the very end of the war. It lasted almost until this day 75 years ago. The italians eventually surrendered after the germans had agreed to surrender. It was the germans occupying italy,fighting in propping up that state of the italian pseudogovernment who had to throw in the towel. That occurred may 2, 1945. The war was in italy until the very end also. Illinois, you are on. Caller good morning. I hope the fellow from new mexico is still listening. We had a navajo on our local Radio Station being interviewed hymn in fellow sang a navajo. The hairs on the back of my neck were standing up. Is ifestion i have Franklin Roosevelt still lived in august, would eleanor have andhim use the bombs . Semper fidelis or america. America. Guest roosevelt was not directing war policy before april. He was interested in the manhattan project. A way to shorten the war and save lives. , and tos and allies save japanese lives also. Had Franklin Roosevelt lived dont april 12, 1945, i have any doubt that he would have made the same decision that harry truman did was to go ahead and use this terrible weapon in hopes of bringing the total war to a complete and final end which happens with the japanese bayender in tokyo on tokyo on the uss missouri on september 2, 1945. Host we touched on this at the beginning. Who are the, germans signing for the german country . Theppose he is referring to allied signing and not the russians signing. Guest the operations chief for the german military, he had been designated and given the residual german government. He had an appointment after that signing with the hangmen. He was one of those executed for war crimes. You probably get this question a lot. You are working on another trilogy about the revolution with your first book coming out on that last year. Have you considered a book about the Pacific Theater in world war ii . Guest i thought about it. It was obvious to pivot to the pacific and try to do for that theater what i have done for the mediterranean and western europe. I decided not to. 2013 is when the final volume came out. I decided not to in part because i am a european nist. I lived in europe, i was born in europe. Ofe important, just out fascination and even fixation with that earlier war, the war of our independence that gave us the republic that we have to this day. Volume two ofn the American Revolution trilogy. It will take me a while. I do not anticipate being around to take up the pacific. Berlin, illinois. Good morning. Caller good morning. I have a question for mr. Atkinson. I wonder what he thinks about mexican americans in american wars. More than 500 mexican americans were in the war. Guest thank you for the question. As with the other ethnic contributions that we talked about earlier, native americans, blacks, and others, the hispanic , take the Texas National guard after it was federalized or the 45th division which had been the oklahoma and new Mexico National guard. You have the roster of the names of the soldiers of those units and you see lots of hernandezs and gonzaless. There are many hispanic names and their contribution is significant. Unitsrole in making those into fine fighting units. The 36 and the 45th birth inh and 45th both fought italy. The hispanic americans have every reason to be proud of their role and their 16. 1ibution to that million men and women force that made the United States military in world war ii. Host there was a photograph in elizabethday, queen to lead the 75th Anniversary Event speaking to the nation on television there as an army driver, what was the role of the royal family back during the war . Guest their role was to keep the british in the fight and to ambitions of the entire british nation which was basically to prevail and withstand the pressures from thugs. And his fascist when ve day occurred, there were huge crowds in london and crowds that gathered outside the palace. They sang patriotic songs, people weeping. They chanted, we want the king. The king came out and. On the balcony of Buckingham Palace d. He times appeare princessesh him the including elizabeth who was still a young girl. She has been queen for a long time and there is no one better equipped to speak on behalf of written and what they accomplished during the war. Britain. Host Rick Atkinson, we appreciate you joining us and we always appreciate your appearances on book tv as well and good luck on the continuation of your series on the American Revolution. Guest themesident trump at Melania Trump en today wreathlaying ceremony other world war ii memorial in washington, d. C. This is the 75th anniversary of the victory in europe day, marking the surrender of nazi germany to the allied forces. Here is a look. We gotta go, we gotta go, run