On the free cspan radio app. Immediately following the live session join Jeffrey Rawson of the National Constitution center leading a discussion with scholars. President elson is the of Flight Attendants. Thank you for being with us. Thank you. Host tell us about your organization, what it does, how many members you have. Guest im the president of the association who represent 50,000 Flight Attendants at 20 airlines. Host of those, what is your sense of how many are still working . Guest we have a little over 100,000 Flight Attendants in the United States and right now approximately 40,000 are either completely out of work or on some sort of voluntary leave or furlough. The rest are not necessarily going to work because demand anddown to 3 in march there are others who are continuing to pay because what we are able to accomplish in the cares act but that is only through september 30. Host what is the overall situation look like for commercial travel . You talked about demand being down but airlines do have to keep those planes running both for maintenance reasons and others correct . Guest that is absolutely correct. Aviation is the backbone of our economy and it is necessary. There is essential service that happens all across the country for communities large and small. While air travel demand is down the Aviation Industry has to provide service or communities would really be stranded without the goods and services they need. We are moving essential workers around the country to be able to address attacking the virus and there are people who still have urgent reasons to travel. Part of what was in the cares act was not only funding to continue to keep workers in their jobs and off the unemployment line but also to make sure the airlines can continue to deliver services to all those committees. Host are the airlines what are the airlines doing to ensure their workers Flight Attendants, pilots, gate attendants are safe . Guest this is really difficult because we have experienced Community Disease for decades and the association has a checklist that we pull out every single time and its recommendations for the government, airlines, and our members. Often times we are able to stop the spread of Communicable Disease at the door when you take swift action and everyone works together. Course, is a Bigger Health crisis than we have faced in the last 100 years and we dont even have the essential personal protective equipment for Health Care Providers in the frontlines. What we would normally be ,emanding is n95 masks, gowns gloves, sanitation wipes, and other items in the virus kits that are simply not available. That is why we made such a big deal when we started to see full flights again with planes getting pulled down and a demand picking up slightly with the talk about opening the economy in some states and from the white house. We saw a little increase in the passenger loads which made all the more important to demand masks were mandated across the board because we do not have access to the personal protective equipment that would keep Flight Attendant safe. Host sarah nelson is our guest. She president of the association of Flight Attendants here to talk about the u. S. Response to the coronavirus and how it affects the airline industry. We welcome your calls and comments. Eastern and central is 2027488002 , mountain and pacific 2027488001 . If you are in the air travel industry, that is 2027488002 . Sinceve been with united 1996. President since 2014 so this is not the first time you have seen an epidemic breakout in other countries. First of all, what has been done in the past in outbreaks like this . Guest in the past what we have seen is that there is a command center from the white house and and fromugh hhs, cdc, our perspective. I was at the white house talking to the Obama Administration under the direction of brian mclean and really saw how this Work Together. While you have the Health Care Authorities who can give good guidance on health care, you have to have the people on the front lines like Flight Attendants to be able to provide feedback and say, which one of those guidelines helps and how we might adjust that. That is the kind of coordination just with Flight Attendants but this was every other industry as well. We work with the health care industry, nurse unions, teacher unions, and other aviation unions and we were able to put in place procedures that helped us address the threat and try to contain that and keep everyone safe. I dont want to compare the two outbreaks. They are very different viruses and we have a Community Spread now that has overtaken transportation. But what we have seen in the past is a coordinated effort and it starts with good information. That is the first and most important piece that everybody has to be on the same page, understand all we can about the virus, apply the Proper Health guidance to everyone involved on the frontlines and even the public. We have had so much misinformation that it has been very difficult to coordinate not including the fact we have not had this interagency coordination and real clear direction from one source. It has not been great. In terms ofhe guidance for Flight Attendants who would that come from . The department of transportation . Guest it would be in oshaination with cdc and with the department of transportation and faa. It is an Interagency Working Group in that direction those agencies can Work Together but it is much more helpful when you have that coordination coming from the white house. Everyone has the area of expertise and you have to pull that together to make the best decisions. The cdc would tell you, we dont know the inside of the cabin well so we need that feedback from you and osha that would be more in tune to the occupational issues in order to give good guidance. Host back to your experience with united and time as president of the association. When you first heard news coming out of china about the virus what were your initial thoughts and reactions . Guest the initial thoughts were ok, we have to gear up and make sure Flight Attendants are protected. We pulled out that checklist, got that to all members, airlines, and we started asking the government to coordinate on the response. Our immediate actions were to get the airlines to make sure they did not have viruses on the plane spit they had protective equipment readily available and there would be extra sets for any medical personnel on board. We did not know a lot about the virus at the time so we went to the basics about what we know about addressing Communicable Disease. As we have gotten more information it has been clear even those initial steps we would have taken to protect the crew and passengers immediately were just not enough because what we learned, fairly early on, was this could be spread by people who had no symptoms which makes it that much more difficult to be able to pinpoint and stop the spread. Host if i am a passenger and need to travel on business or family reasons in the next couple of days, how safe do you think it is . Guest guest the airlines are in the process of rolling out requirements for everybody to wear a mask. That is required already at frontier airlines, jetblue, United Airlines, delta air lines, American Airlines in the next few days. Delta air lines, American Airlines in the next few days. That is really a key component here, and really important. There are still efforts by the airlines to put proper procedures in place to make sure that we are disinfecting the aircraft and disinfecting different areas in the airport. Airlines have already put social distancing policies in place, but those are not consistent on the airplanes themselves. So it is much better than it was a few weeks ago. Take stepsl need to to be able to say that it is absolutely safe to fly. I think that we are in a better place where we can try to protect you. If you get to a gate and the airplane is full, and it is an airline that has not mandated the masks, that is a little concerning at this point. But we are taking steps to make it better. News,a story from ky w Flight Attendant union wants covid19 Airline Safety rules. Sara, you are talking about the Airlines Taking action. Theould like to see osha, department of transportation implement the rules industrywide. Guest yes, it is always better with consistency and a clear message from the government. So that everyone is on the same page. Travelers often do not really identify with which airline they are flying on, they only identify with that airline experience. So when you have policies at that are inconsistent across the airlines, it is difficult to communicate properly to the traveling public about what they need to do to prepare to travel. Also about what they can expect. It is important to set those expectations clearly. And also have the backing of the federal government, because at the end of the day if somebody is not complying with the policies of the individual airlines, it falls to the Flight Attendants to enforce that and it is better when enforcement is coming with the backing of the federal government. Host you have been with united since 1996, now president of the association of Flight Attendants. We have callers. Donald in newbury park, california. Caller good morning. One of the things that was of concern was the recirculated air on board aircraft. The Economic Impact of social distancing on the aircrafts. D food and Beverage Service does the coronavirus transfer on currency. Those are my concerns. Host donald, thanks. Guest yes, one of the things we did early on several weeks ago was stop all food and beverage aisle service on the airplanes. Many Airline Kitchens are closed because there have been outbreaks in some of the kitchens. And people have not wanted to receive food or beverage from the crews, because we need to cut down on the interaction, the Human Interaction on the plane. If you were to fly now, this is what you may be seeing. You would want to make sure you bring those items yourself on board, in order to have something to eat and drink during the flight. It does not mean we will not have things on board, we just do not have the aisle service. In addition, some airlines are putting in place social distancing policies, for example, not selling any middle seats. People say immediately that that is not enough because you are only about 20 inches apart then, but what that means is the Flight Attendants have some room on the airplane if there is somebody experiencing symptoms, we have a place to go to reseat people and get them away from that person. Or if we have a medical emergency on board, we can do the same thing. We have to have space to be able to work with to put in place the best possible procedures. But it is also why you have got to have those masks and continue to encourage people to continue with their handwashing, bring hand sanitizer, and wipes to wipe the area down around yourself. That is important. And i think i forgot your last point. Host he talked about recirculated air. That was the first topic you brought up. Guest yes, we are in a isssurized cabin and air recirculated t o a point. Often times what happens is the air is brought in from outside and circulated through the engines and into the aircraft. People do not understand how the air is recirculated. It is more about the pressurized cabin. And so close to each other. We have other issues with air quality with the circulated if through the engines, that there is an issue with the canne, any oil leaks, that be pumped into the cabin. There are issues with air quality on planes, but in terms of the circulated air on the plane, that is not what people think it is and the concern that people think it is. What is concerning as what we have learned about the virus, how it can stay suspended in the air for a period. That is more of a concern anywhere. Enclosedially in an space like on an airplane, as opposed to on a running trail where there would be some wind and the ability to move the air around. In this case it will stay stagnant. Host some airlines are requiring face masks, do you think the faa should mandate that . Guest they should absolutely mandate face masks for passengers. We need to have one level of safety and we need to be very clear. The faa has that authority to do that. Host lets hear from samuel in maryland. Hi. Caller hello, good morning. Host good morning. Caller how are you . And i live inuel maryland. And im calling, if you give me a minute in normal times, the Airlines Make money. They make billions. They charge for luggage and stuff. They never provide free rides for passengers or customers. A situation and the taxpayer has to pay airline employees, when it is a private business. Mean, independent contractors a light limousine owners, cab owners, they are not getting anything. This is going to pay for employees. Private paying for the airline industry, which has made billions . Why didnt they put money aside for a rainy day . It is not fair. Guest i appreciate that question very much because we have experienced this before as airline employees. I was a Flight Attendant, i lost some good friends on 9 11. We also dealt with bankruptcies of that followed over the next nine years. And what we wanted to make sure in this instance is that this crisis was not put on the back of workers. The airlines were asking for a bailout. So the first thing i should recognize is that, yes, they give their money a lot of the revenues toward stock buybacks, which meant bigger bonuses for management and the workers on the front lines oppose that every single time. I should note that this crisis is so large that any savings that could have been put in place would not made a difference, it wouldve been a drop in the bucket. I know that is hard to take. But what we did was we said to the airlines, the public does not like you because of this, because you have been squeezing them tighter because of all the seats, the way you have been treating them. And we do not like the fact that it falls on the back of the workers, when times are tough, but you have not shared with us in a communal way that when the airlines are making billions. So this time when we are in trouble and we need the airlines to continue to provide service to all of our communities, we need to have a package of is focused on workers. So in the 2 trillion cares act, 1. 25 of the funds were allocated to go to workers. That is in the aviation funds. We are able to say to Management Committee will not get what you want, but if you make sure that this money is allocated to as we think that we can get this done. That is what we did. We also wanted to create a template for others. This is the key component, these are payroll grants that are designated to only go to workers, salaries and benefits. It can only go to us. They cannot take the money and decide to do Something Else with it. They cannot involuntarily furlough anyone. That keeps more people in their jobs, and keeps us away from the unemployment lines. It requires them to have no stock buybacks. No dividends for a year be on the release in place. Relief in place. So we were able to get at some of those things that are so concerning, and keep the airlines from filing for bankruptcy. Because the bankruptcies and consolidations that happen to lead to those concerns you are expressing, that led to the luggagen seat size and fees and everything else. We believe this can be a template for other industries, paying you and making sure that you continue to get your paycheck. That is what we put forward. That is what nancy pelosi says she wants to do. This has been introduced in a bill in the senate with doug jones, bernie sanders, mark warner and senator blumenthal. It has been introduced in the house by congresswoman paul. So it is a paycheck protection act that holds of the corporations accountable, but gives the money only to the workers on the front lines. We are hopeful we can put that in place for other people, people can be called back to work and get this money. And unemployment can be used for anyone else who does not fit into those categories, then we will not have the strain on the unemployment lines, and actually be able to provide help for people. Oft it is the future passenger travel, more expensive tickets . Guest if we allow the airlines to go into bankruptcy, that will happen. On the other side we will see less competition and we will see more hurt on the workers and consumers. We want to avoid that, it is not a good outcome. If we have relief mandated by congress, we can actually help the American People to have control. I should be clear, that money is going directly to people who are the taxpayers. I am a taxpayer and consumer, so are the 2 Million People under the cares act provision. We are paying back into the economy. We are contributing to the economy. And we are paying back into taxes and is staying connected to our health care benefits, which is important because it you want to have as many people who can remain strong as possible and take care of themselves, especially in an emergency like this. This is a simple plan that we are hopeful we can make possible for everybody else in the country. Host on twitter karen says, im all for social distancing on airplanes. Remove every other seat and let the passengers spread out. Mike in cincinnati, go ahead. Caller good morning. Thanks for taking my call. I think that the flights must be limited because we are in a dangerous situation. My father was affected by covid19. He lost his job and has economic problems. Some days we do not have enough food. Some days i have had to wait in line for five hours to get free food. It is a shame that we live in the richest country in the world, but we have such terrible situations. Host bill in buffalo. You are on, go ahead. Caller good morning. Consumers believe that a toporation is responsible shareholders, so it is not surprising when they get money it goes to the top. George washington believed citizenship should be for the country. As long as you have conservatives running the government, like Mitch Mcconnell, the main goal is for corporate profits, not citizens. So you have an uphill battle. The people you mentioned you are working with, obviously they are democrats and or they believe our Founding Fathers believed in that theygclass, should share the wealth and be part of the wealth. It is not taking money from the wealth, we should share the prosperity. But consumers believe the money should go to the top. Ronald reagan said a number of times at that corporations work for the shareholders. As long as people keep electing conservatives, the whole point of the china problem was things should be closed in america. It had nothing to do with trade. Now i am watching and you have saudi arabia with the not the host i will let our guests respond. Guest absolutely, these policies came from democrats. Let me be clear, this was degressman or chairman blasio, chairman of the infrastructure committee. He is from oregon and has been in the house for a long time, but he has never forgotten his roots and he has constantly fought for workers. We brought this plan to him, he took it immediately to the speaker. And Speaker Nancy Pelosi took this up as a key point in the cares act into fought for it relentlessly. Of course, our main champions in the senate were senator chuck schumer, senator brown. Of hope. Is a ray this is a simple plan that actually helps people. So since that time, we have actually seen senator hawley from missouri speaking up about this. It did take republicans in order to get it done, so we also had support on this in the house from congressman graves, the Ranking Member on the transportation infrastructure committee. And we also had support from ted cruz in the senate on this. But i want to be clear that this was pushed for by democrats. And is being notnow by jimmy well. By democrats as well. But there is republican support. We have to talk not about what people think is political identity but actually solutions and that will make a difference for the people. And what we found when we proposed this, people are so used to seeing bailouts that go to corporations and that they were much opposed to it. They could not imagine the idea that we could shape a policy that actually helped people first. I want to make one note. Once it went to the administration and secretary Steve Mnuchin got his hands on it, he changed what was intended. In turn, part of the money that was dedicated for the frontline workers is a loan, so that piles up the debt sheet for airlines. And also the senate, Mitch Mcconnell did not want to fund this the full rate the house had, so when you take those two things together the airlines are only getting 50 of what they need to support their workers. The that means, when requirements run out on the involuntary furloughs on september 30, that will fall to the workers. And already the airlines are working now to try to put it on the workers backs. Delta airlines and United Airlines, where they can and where they think they can, have been cutting hours down to parttime work for workers. That is not what was intended by the cares act. Corporations are so conditioned to put this on the backs of working people, and on the people of the front lines. American airlines and southwest are resisting that and believe clearly that the cares act was intended to keep people in their jobs at their fulltime rates. I should also note that the virus has placed all the problems we have in our economy, we have pushed americans to work at high productivity. What that means is most people have to have two or three jobs to get by. Or if you have one job, you are working overtime in order to meet your bills. So there is not a Single Airline employee getting overtime hours right now. They are getting the bare minimum. Beyond that, some airlines are really cheating. I will call them out. Again, delta and United Airlines are cutting hours of workers. We will challenge this because this is not what was intended by the act. If we do not hold them accountable and hold them to the rules, you are right. Their main focus is on the shareholders and on wall street, and not on reinvesting in the business and protecting workers on the front lines who create all the value in this country, and also are the consumers and taxpayers. We need to rethink our economy in this moment and make sure that we are recognizing all of the failings that led us to this point, where we are so poorly prepared to face this virus. We are the only country that does not have health care for all. That is a major problem. What this does is it creates a bigger screen strain on our lawmakers to address more problems in the country, which is also difficult because at they are trying to get through all this now and the ideologues against these policies that help people on the front lines are standing in the way of getting immediate help. That means that people are standing for five hours in bread lines. It is inexcusable. Host if you are a travel rker, a Flight Attendant, pilot, you work at the airport, you will want to call 202 7488002. On that line from new york, welcome. Caller good morning. It is good to see you again, sara. I am also a United Airlines employee, a retiree now, but i am proud of my company. I have flown many times with you. I remember you well. I was not a Flight Attendant but i was associated with that organization a lot. And i had a thought. I know that this is a difficult time for everyone. And we are trying to be as cautious as we can. Has anyone given a thought to me be using disposable seat covers or something of that nature that perhaps might cut down on the contact issue . I wish you well. You look pretty. God bless you. I love United Airlines. Host ok. Guest thank you. I think that you are accentuating the fact that the airlines are really the people that make them up and aviation is all about connecting people and making those personal connections, so good to hear from you again. As far as the seat covers go, that has not made it into the mix, but there are efforts going on to try to think about how we best protectd people, and how we can best protect best follow through with cleaning. That the cabin is disinfected before we load them up again. So i think that is something that could certainly be considered. And we will be looking at that. But very nice to hear from you into thinking for focusing on the fact that airlines are not just people in a board room, it is all of us on the front lines who think of ourselves as family and we love being together. Host also on that line is rick. Go ahead. Caller yeah, i am retired. I retired in 1995. I know about the cabin, the drums in the cabin and cockpit, you know, it is unbelievable. Address are starting to these situations, which i am happy they are doing that, but then again because of my age they will not let me fly anymore. So i am driving a limousine now, back and forth with people like Flight Attendants and the tsa people. Nobody seems to know what is going on. It is scary to see all the airplanes parked at the airport where they are back to back into the airport is a ghost town. And i do not know when things are going to start returning to normal, but trying to restart all the airplanes, they are hafted are going to have to be inspected and that will take time. I do not see this ending anytime soon, probably the end of june before they get back in the air. Host are you currently working, sara . Guest i am working aroundtheclock, but not going to the airport. I am sheltered in my home and working on Airline Policy and safety and connecting with many people, like we are connecting now. So i also receive all of the reports from Flight Attendants on the front lines. We are staying connected with what is happening, but also working on policies to try to protect them. I will say that what is concerning hear about the airlines, about the airplanes being parked, is the reason they are on the ground is the virus. So we have got to do everything we can to help assist our Health Care Authorities and professionals on the front lines in fighting the virus, because until we have that under control we are not going to see demand return. At the same time, what we are doing is trying to take the time to put in place policies for airlines, until we have a vaccine, because we know that we will need to have the traveling public feel confident that when they get a ticket they are not exposing themselves more or putting themselves at greater risk by traveling on airplanes. So we have a lot of work to do. And we do not yet know when we will get to the point where people, where we have gotten through this threat and we can restart. We know already when we do it will take time and it will take time to pull it back up to full strength. Host do you think the u. S. Acted swiftly enough to close down flights from china and from europe . So, what i would say is it was not coordinated well and we have seen policies announced from the middle of a press conference at normally would be wellplanned with all stakeholders knowing exactly what is going on. It created pandemonium. The way it was done we ended up being passengers getting pushed together at customs, days after the european flights were pulled it down because of the way it was done, so we created a situation where the spread of the coronavirus was much more likely in aviation by doing that. It is about planning and coordination. You have to work fast in an emergency, but you need to make sure that everybody who is implementing the policy is on the same page and with you, see you do not have unintended consequences like that. So, no, our government did not act fast enough. There was denial it was even an issue. There was more we could have done if we were coordinated, through aviation, to try to stop the spread. Now we are learning that even before the flights were pulled down there was a possibility coronavirus was already in our communities. Communityame a spread. So we have to take clear steps now, obviously, for testing, testing, testing. And contact tracing, if we can get to that point and really get the virus down, so we can get back to some normalcy. Until then, we need to continue to help her Health Care Providers and not be aiding in the spread. Host a story from the bbc, the headline an airline accused of spreading the coronavirus, tracking how covid19 infected passengers took the virus from iran iraq and lebanon. That is on bbc. A caller from staten island. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I am the mother of a United AirlineFlight Attendant. Got actually was just she hired in january. I was at the ceremony in houston, texas, and i was very proud of my daughter. She was looking to get a flight from london. She came back very sick. That was in february. We did not know what was going on at that time. God. Got over it, thank my question is, she lost her job. We are proud of what you are doing for everyone, sara. Really, really proud of you. So thank you for negotiating the , toor the Flight Attendants have a job until september. I mean, to get a paycheck. My question is after september will my daughter still have a job, because i am worried about that for her. She loves the job and she wants to continue. Host thank you. Guest thank you so much. We are proud to have her with us. So we are working very hard to make sure that there is not involuntary furloughs on october 1. What i will tell you though that if conditions do not change, that is very likely. Or if we do not get additional relief. There are some things we will be working on. One is to make sure that we are continuing to put Safety Measures in place so people can have confidence flying, and we are also containing the virus. That is the main threat. It is extremely important. The second is what we can try to do is to fix legislatively what secretary Steven Mnuchin did in eroding cares act funds intended to keep your daughter in her job and continuing to get a paycheck rather than going to the unemployment line. The third thing we will be doing is working with airlines to negotiate early out packages, for retirement, to create as many programs as possible where people can voluntarily as well as a federal housing commissioner and assistant secretary for housing. The trumps nominees will answer senators questions about the background and approach of the jobs. To the jobs. We will go int, the same order i always do. I will make introductory remarks and you will make your introductory remarks. We will then swear in the witnesses and proceed. We are going to do all this by seniority, not time of arrival, right . Correct. Its too hard otherwise. Last, sinceall be she was first. Sorry, tina. Almost everybody was here, so it looks like we are going to be all right, except on our side. Were your members are all there . We have senators purdue, kennedy, and myself, and that is all so far. So how will you see us . You have a screen there in the hearing room that you can see us . How is that working . We have a laptop here, but my director greg is the one looking at that. He will keep me posted. I basically have a sheet with everybodys names on it and i will go through that sheet. When you are called on and start talking, your picture will be the one that shows up on the main screen. So i will get to see you then. The main screen that everybody sees . Yes. Ok, not a laptop. Yes, the main screen. And you are screen should have the main screen on it. Ok. Got it. What . [inaudible] srs director . So, the screen im looking at, which is like the tv screen we are familiar with, they are not seeing that yet . [inaudible]