Easter is the proclamation, belief, of hope over despair and life over death. Thats what im hoping and believing and praying today on this Easter Sunday. Host reverend jim wallis, president of sojourners, happy easter to you and your family. , weow, for the first time are backing scientists, the the sociald doing distancing which is necessary to save lives. Says where two or three are gathered together, their mi. There is a promise. Virtually anding we will probably feel closer than ever to our fellow parishioners all over the world. We are learning in the churches how to worship virtually, how to love, how to care for each other virtually in this pandemic time. One of our roles is to back the scientists and doctors. Consistent with christ to infect your neighbors, so we will heal the nation by saying physically distance but standing apart but never being alone. That is the solidarity we need. Host we have had a number of callers and i want to get your thoughts, what do you say to people who have called us and said we see attending a Church Service as an essential service and if people have the ability to go to a liquor store or a drivethrough, fast food restaurants, why are churches or other religious organizations prohibited from having people in distanting, socially safe gathering of some sort . Guest this is about Public Health. Gathering together in a big building is the way to infect your neighbors. This isnt about religious liberty, it is about Public Health. Terribly infectious disease. You dont love your neighbor by infecting your neighborhoods. We are doing that together all over the country and we are feeling often closer than ever before. This remarkable easter because we have also learned, it is almost like good friday. Good friday there was a powerful image of christ on the cross with his hands nailed to the saying to all the suffering of the coronavirus, i cant stop your suffering but i am with you in it. Christs handsy are outstretched and says all we have seen revealed by the coronavirus, all of these inequities, all of these things that are wrong, racism and poverty, being revealed as preconditions for getting this disease and dying of it because of how people are made to live and yet now in this day, jesus says come to me, i can make all things. I can make all things new. Come join me and lets fix this. But we will respect Public Health and we will be the healing spirit of christ in the world, making things new. This virus has revealed things are bad and wrong and much and must no longer be acceptable. Sermon before heading into jerusalem. Sick, i was, i was in prison and where were you . As you treat the least of these, that is how we treat him. We both aren, where today, the least of these are the least important. Host i want to follow on that and one of your comments, one of your writings. Reverend jim wallis is overcast, the founder of sojourners. His articles at sojo. Net. One of his articles, you wrote this. Two scriptures come to mind for me in the last week. Sayss if fusee ends which lovell redeem the time for the days are evil realizing there are people dying, dying alone makes her very evil days but i also think the days that preceded the unexpected onslaught of the killer virus were also people. They have become days of untruthfulness, the acceleration of racial bigotry, the promotion of fear, hate and violence, the political targeting of those jesus tells to protect, those on the margin. Biblical perhaps implication of the coronavirus . Guest it is interesting. I wrote that before the coronavirus but the pandemic has shown these things, it has revealed these things. That thingsws now like poverty and racism are preconditions because of peoples lack of access to health care, to safe housing, anywhere to physically distance, reliable incomes. All of that makes them more prone to get sick and die. I think on this easter, more than ever, we want to proclaim jesus, thellowers of least of these are the most important. , wee come out of easter want to learn those things that this virus has shown us are wrong and have to be changed and then change them together as jesus says. Let us make all things new. Host you are probably hearing a lot of this conversation, the headline that usa today, is the coronavirus an act of god . Faith Leaders Debate top questions amid the pandemic. One of those responding is a rabbi who said people want to make meaning in a time of fear, uncertainty and suffering. That is understandable and natural but passover is coming up so people are making those comparisons. I do not think god is smiting us. My theology does not involve a man in the sky with a pair of dice saying it is smite the people time. What do you think of his comments . Guest i think they are right. I think that image of christ on the cross over the coronavirus suffering saying i cannot stop your suffering but i am with you in it, that is what the cross says, with us in the suffering and now two days later, we believe this resurrected christ is saying that hope can triumph over despair, life over death. We have to believe. Believing it makes us change. How do we see that and how do we act, that life will triumph over death and how do we protect those whom this virus has revealed are so vulnerable . Protecting the vulnerable, focusing our attention on the vulnerable is the vocation of the faith and we are doing that all over the country. We are learning how to take care of people and we are saying to our political leaders that you have to protect those who are most in jeopardy. Hungry people, people who dont have health care. Isnt it interesting now how we see that everyone having health care, universal health care would be the best thing for the common good of all of us . And for the Common Health of all of us . If people had steady incomes, that would make us more economically stable, all of us. We have to ask what is best for the common good and the Common Health and this virus can teach us things if we have the ears to hear and the eyes to see. Host comments to comments and calls to reverend jim wallis. 202 7488000 for those of you in the eastern and central time zones. 202 7488001 for those of you in the mountain and pacific. Caller i will make my comment very short and to the point. I am not a longwinded preacher. Romans 13 point romans 13 1, b in subject in subjection to the superior authorities. It is gods own words and we should follow the government says and that should and all of these conversations. I thank you very much. Over i see governors all the country and mayors, responsible for the people, saying indeed physical distancing, staying away from each other right now is the only way to heal this nation and save lives. I want to see us doing that. I agree with you entirely. That is what we should be doing. I think they are looking to us for that, to protect each other. I dont want to see people infected in Church Services or funerals. This is a time of social distancing but here is the issue. I think the virus is showing the world right now how to do social or physical distancing without leading to social isolation. We cannot let that happen. We are finding all kinds of ways to help us prevent the social that social distancing which is necessary for our health could create. We are trying to show that we can reach out to each other and take care of each other in that kind of time. With the doctors and scientists and governors and mayors . They are telling us to please stay home but church is going on. The doors are closed but church is going on. Host here is frank. Caller good morning. Just trying to give an atheist point of view. And ih the show everyday watched all the leaders speak and a lot of god talk, a lot of talk of jesus. My question is, i watch these evenhes, especially tellicos who can heal the children by touching their head out of a wheelchair and the blind to see again. Christianityear of and creationists of going to church . Why cant someone just touch their head and make the virus go away . Is the virus too strong for god . We talk too much about prayer. I think we should be talking more about science and we are wasting a lot of time thinking we have telepathic powers talking to an imaginary person we should be turning to science. Person when we should be talking to science. Guest i agree with you that talk isnt enough. I want to see us putting our faith into action, particularly in terms of caring for those who are left out and left behind. Who will do that is the question. We are told to love our neighbors as ourselves. Taking care of each other but who is going to love our neighbors beyond our own doors . That is what we have to do. There are plenty of reasons that christians have failed to live the way jesus taught that turns people into not being believers at all. I understand those things, i really do. Now is the time not just for talk but for action. Who is putting into action love, the care, the compassion and empathy. Lived, we want to be followers of jesus in this time. It is most important ever to take care of each other, especially those whom christ called the least of these and we have not always done that and it has made people not believe but it is the time for us to put jesus where put jesuss words into action. I want to see love go viral. I am seeing that. Ched those who are unchur can spare some bread and sustenance and we are looking for a way to take care of ourselves and give beyond ourselves and take care of those who are in serious trouble. Host up next is steve calling from tennessee. Caller good morning. Thank you so much for todays program because you have highlighted what i have been saying for years. Christianity unfortunately has camps,vided into two true christians and the even evangelicalsd the who believe everyone is out to get them. Aboutan evangelical for 10 or 11 years until all of this hate started showing up. I went back to being a true christian. A true christian follows the teachings of jesus. They dont worry about they dont push a political agenda. Mr. Brody got up and i listened to him and he talked out of both sides. He vilified liberals. I am a liberal and most of my friends are and we are all christians. It is sad to me, the way that this country is being divided and the fact is in my mind, the even jill echols the even evangelicalsthe have thrown out jesus and replaced him with donald trump as their lord and savior. Reverend wallis is a true christian and he represents true christianity. And it isabout love not about money and the problem in this country is, we have replaced jesus with money and he very explicitly talks about that in his gospels. I want to thank you for this morning and for the opportunity to call in and reverend wallis, ive true i truly appreciate the fact that you are a true christian and you follow the teachings. Host thank you. More than ever, my brother it is time to reclaim jesus as you are speaking of. We have been polarized, politicized and i think somehow jesus gets squeezed out by our politics. Is. Is the world as it when jesus gets squeezed out with politics full of hate and fear and even violence, i think this is a time where we are called back to jesus to reclaim jesus and what he said. He did say it and are we to follow it, yes we are. Even those who left the church, what jesus was saying, it is in need right now, it is what i need right now. Lets put the politics aside. Our faith is supposed to shape our politics, not the other way around and that has been happening for a long time. I hope to reclaim jesus in this moment, lift him up and see what he said. Us to lovet mean for one another, and particularly protect those who jesus called the least of these. Host we will get to deborah in ohio next. Caller i have been listening to your program. Is that the fundamental beliefs i believe is to do onto others as the lenched was the reverend was so right, we just have to love each other. Im staying away from my church because i love those people and would like them to do the same for me. And not go to church and be around large groups so when i go to the store its safer for me to go to the store. Ive been going out once, maybe twice in an emergency to go to the Grocery Store and trying to do everything i can to keep my family safe and myself safe. That are ese Churches HoldingChurch Services, one reason theyre doing it is because they get a lot of publicity, for themselves and for their churches. And these governments that are going in there and trying to stop them is getting a lot of publicity because theyre the rough and tough people laying down the law. If we just ignore it, stop it from being on the news all the time, stop showing shes defiants, people will be more apt to do whats right and stay at home. Host deborah from ohio, thank you. Guest i couldnt have set it better than you. We stopped going to church in a pandemic. We havent stopped church. Hurch is still going on. Were there, two or three, jesus, i am with you. And in a few minutes my family and i will be going to church in the living room right here at my house and taught not only taking care of ourselves but loving each other as you were saying, loving those beyond us. So this is the time the truth is very few churches, really, are having services in defiance of the law. The ones having it are predictably the usual loud mega Church Pastors who really all they ever do is draw attention to themselves and the media, youre right, covers that. And wants to make this into a religious freedom issue which is absolutely ridiculous. This isnt religious liberty, this is Public Health. Its not infecting our neighbors. Let the loud people be loud and the media cover them. Very, very few pastors and priests are doing this. Were doing what is best to do when youre in a pandemic. You love your neighbors by staying physically apart but not losing that connection, that solidarity, so worship is going on, prayer is going on. Even music is going on with the technology the way it is now. I wouldnt worry about the few people who are loud mega Church Pastors who always worry about themselves. I kind of ignore them in times like this. Host in the New York Times there is an Easter Sunday piece,s headline, the pandemic and will of god, the cut line, the purpose of suffering may be mysterious but we must search for meaning. As the theologic thomas wrote a message for christians to rebel the quarantine, there is a liberty to search the precious moment and not escape it and what does it mean god willed temporary conditions in which our elite lifestyle of International Travel is grounded, our consumption is cut to a minimum, our days are occupied with basic responsibility towards our families and immediate communities, our resources and economic hopes are reduced and were made more dependent upon one another, what does it mean our nation state suddenly seems less potent and armies are infected by a invisible conteenageon that cant be eradicated and countries face the humility of their limits and might think none of this tells us anything about ourselves and gods compassion and justice but if we simply ask to pass through all of this in hasty expectations to a return to normal perhaps we are missing the fundamental point f this exercise. Guest hes so right. What are we learning in this . Easter is never a time, as i said before, to return to normal. We have to return to the new. We are learning a lot from this. We should be made more humble by all of this. We should see those who are always vulnerable, always open before this and this virus has shown this. How can we learn from this. How can this make us more open, more loving, more aware of whats around us . How can it change us . History. We will be changed by this. Were not going to be the same afterwards. How we are after this will depend on how we act through it, what we do, what we do who we do that with, who we act with, how we bring the polarization together around compassion, around the common good not just our own good. I think we can learn from the suffering and take it to a different place. And easter to me is a day to proclaim that, that hope can prevail over despair and that life can prevail over death and we see a world in which, while things are coming apart, jesus is saying i can, i will make all things new. Come join me and help me do that. Host we dont want to make you late for your service even though its in your living room. Verend jim ba jim wallis, his latest book is christ in crisis. We go to michigan. Caller i appreciate the time. Try to make it short. In reference to mr. Wallis comment and also the text message you read about people accepting this as a smite from god. God gave us the truth to believe so the freedom he gives all individuals but we are still responsible for what we do, whether it is spreading truth or not. And i do know that according to god, in reference to our relationship with him, i accept, and i know its offensive to god in not acknowledging his hand in all things, metaphorically, i had a relationship with my father, theres times he did good and times he disciplined me, so saying thats metaphoric how were supposed to look at god. Hes a god that does good, does good all the time. When he chacins us he tests us and this is part of us humbling our imagination because we end up forming perceptions of god he doesnt want to correct us or cant use death or some sort of affliction to chacin our attitudes that this life isnt the end all, be all, and mannerisms and what we love, i think one of your callers said earlier about loving evil, thats worse, going to god and loving evil is worse death than dying a temporal death. Host well hear from reverend wallis. Host jesus, know the truth and the truth will set you free. Ive been thinking about that. Truthfulness is very important in this crisis. Weve seen a lack of truth fulness, very high levels of leadership in this country. And i think the truth really heal us s free and can and untruthfulness is making people sick. Lets go back. You mentioned truth. Lets go back to the truth. Lets own truth, not be afraid of truth. Know the truth can help us and heal us and save us and bring us together again. This time will drive us apart or pull each other through us or bring us back together again and im trusting and believing and acting on the easter conviction that we can be brought together again and that hope will finally triumph over despair, even life over death. Thats what im hoping and believing and praying today on this Easter Sunday. Host reverend jim cspans washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up monday morning, the response of u. S. Health Insurance Companies to the coronavirus with Kaiser Health news. And how washington is addressing job losses amid the coronavirus policyc with an economic director of the bipartisan policy center. Sure to watch washington journal live at 7 00 eastern monday morning. Be sure to watch washington journal primetime. On monday, dr. Anthony and member