Whipsaw. Workers are uncertain. What would you put this moment, right now . It is a very serious moment for everyone in the country and it is probably a new chapter in our history that is going to be rewritten. Or written this time. We have things that have never happened before on a scale that have never happened before to this country. And we are going to have to get back the way we did during the world wars where we all started pulling together, to try to solve a common problem. That new chapter would begin with what . Guest well, first of all, we had several things that need to be done now. You have the threat of the virus itself. You have the threat of fear that everybody is going through. We have to overcome both of those. The first thing we should do, is to adopt a workplace contagious disease standard. So every employer knows what they have to do. Right now there is total chaos out there. Employers do not know that they have to do or what they should do. We need to adopt that standard. The federal government has to to lead on that. The second thing we have to do, is get personal protective equipment in the hands of a number of our front line people because the shortage is there. People do not know how to get it. The strategic stockpile is not being opened up the way it should be. So we need to have one person in charge at the white house that is telling people, heres how you can get those supplies. Then we need to build hospital and bed capacity to matter how much it costs because we are going to be stretched beyond our limits very, very quickly. That is to deal with the contagious part and the disease. And you have to deal with the people and their lives afterwards. The first thing we should do, is to pass a paid sick leave, 14 days of paid sick leave for everybody out there. I truly do not know why the white house insisted that they would not have people or companies over 500 provide sick days for their employees. Those are probably the most important. So 14 sick days for everybody. The second thing is, we need to change our unemployment system. Right now, it pays too little. And it covers too few. It needs to become a real social safety net, so that people who are unemployed, like autoworkers who just got laid off, or bus drivers who got laid off because the school closed, or thousands of others, on construction sites, in aviation, and transportation, and entertainment. All of those people can be covered who would not be covered otherwise. The next thing we need to do, is to make sure everybody maintains their health care. Because they are going to need it. If we give bailouts, the bailout should be used to keep people on the job. No layoffs. No wage cuts. No benefit cuts. No unionbusting. No stock buybacks. No giant bonuses for management use the money to keep people on the job so we can keep the economy moving. Host this past week at the white house, President Trump said he will give him a 10 out of 10. What would you give the president so far . Guest well, i would give him probably a two or three. Because this started a long time ago, steve. Right after this president took over, there was a workplace contagious disease standard that was about to be issued. And he scrapped it. That standard would have required employers to have a plan, to educate their employees, and have the Proper Health and Safety Equipment on to prevent contagious diseases. He absolutely failed there. Then he dismantled the pandemic disease response infrastructure. And the response team. That was started by president bush. It was built on by president obama. He scrapped that. Now we have to rebuild it. And then osha. The Occupational Safety and health administration. That is the agency designed to protect the health and safety of workers. Has the lowest number of inspectors and Health Specialists it has ever had in its history. And it has not had a leader, a director, for a couple of years. So he failed there. And then at the beginning of this, we knew in december that it was coming. And he wanted to pretend that it was just a few people and was nothing. They even tried to pretend this was a hoax. Unfortunately, some people still believe it is a hoax because they said it. We have to tell people the truth. He has not done a good job at that. The last couple of days, he started to be more realistic. And that has been a welcome thing. But weve lost four months in the process and a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. A lot of people are going to get very sick. And some people are even going to die, because that delay was allowed to occur. Host mr. Trumka, this week we saw sue treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin say privately he believes the Unemployment Rate could escalate to 20 if washington does not come through they very aggressive stim list package. What kind of job losses are you concerned about . For members of your organization . Guest we are seeing job losses in a number of sectors that are massive already. See them in education. All the way down the line. Bus drivers, food workers, janitors, everyone associated with that. In manufacturing. The big three shut down. Now the supply chain will have to shut down to follow it. See and entertainment. Everything has been canceled. In attainment workers are not being able to do anything. You see construction. Construction is being canceled, delayed, moved off and so construction workers are starting to get laid off. That is why it is so important for us to get the Unemployment Insurance program up, running, covering people with sufficient amounts of income, to keep them going and to keep the economy moving. So that when this pandemic leaves, we can still pick up the pieces and quickly rebuild the economy and get everybody back to work and our economy moving again. Host the American Federation of teachers is under your organization. Do you believe at this point that teachers may not return to school this school year . Guest i think that is quite likely. We will be doing things remotely and online the rest of the school year. Some schools have already done that. Some schools of Higher Education have already said they are not coming back. The number of Public Schools are doing the same thing. So that could well happen. That means all the support staff are not going to be around. They may be laid off and they are going to need an unemployment system that takes care of them in length and the amount of money provided to them. That is where we should focus now, on getting that done and built, so more americans can fall into that safety net and be protected. Host at this point in the crisis, we are talking about bailouts and you mentioned earlier the possibility that companies could end up having the u. S. Government be a major shareholder. For example we saw that in 2008 and 2009 with General Motors and chrysler. What lessons have we learned in the financial crisis about those bailouts that need to be applied to structure these accordingly . Guest they used the money improperly. Most of it went for stock buybacks and bonuses for management. They did not use it to keep people on the job. We have learned that lesson and we are putting conditions on that money. So anybody who gets money you have to say, no layoffs. You keep people on the jobs. You do not cut their wages or their benefits and you do not try to bust a union just because it is there. And use the bankruptcy laws to do it. They did all of those things in the last crisis and it showed just how selfcentered they were. And how they do not focus on the public good. This time, we are going to help them focus on the public good by putting conditions on any money or assistance that they ultimately get. Host you said we need to be ready to pick up the pieces when this pandemic ends. That is what a lot of americans are thinking that at some point this too will pass. From your standpoint, what timeline are we looking at . How would that look in terms of picking up the pieces for the average worker . Guest there are some workers out there who will continue to work through this. Frontline workers that are risking their lives every day to keep the rest of us safe, to provide food, to provide energy, they are working out there and we need to protect them. That is the first thing we do. This could go on through the Third Quarterthe second and Third Quarter of the year. I do not think that is an unreasonable thing. Now the scientists are saying that in china, where they premuch knocked it down by isolating everybody, that they think there will be a resurgence whenever the people go back to work, and we will have to be careful about that. We should be pushing for there to be a cure for this. Some type of cure that we can give our people so that we do not have to worry about that. And we can bounce back as an economy. When we go back we are going to have to go back gently. Youll have to have money in the hands of all the people who ultimately need it. At that time, workers will need money. Employers will need money. Small businesses will need money. And states and local governments will need money. So we have to make sure that states and local governments are getting aid, perhaps through medicaid, having medicaid paid for a year, that is an important thing as well. Then we can start bringing the economy back online. Because it went down quickly. But it can go back, i think it will go back more slowly than it went down. Host over the last 10 days the economy has come to a standstill. You think it will not be a rebound, that it will be a slow recovery . Guest i think well gear back up and take a while. I think will take a couple of quarters to start to see Real Progress getting people back to work. And again, i do know what a i do not want to sound like a broken record. But that is why reforming and fixing the Unemployment Insurance system is so important. Those workers are going to need not just a one time lump sum shot but theyre going to need that for a long time if we are going to keep the economy moving at any pace and then try to rebuild it. In the last several weeks we , have seen the stock market crash and the dow plunge below 20,000 points. Many of the workers and unions in this country rely on Pension Funds that are heavily invested in the stock market. Are you concerned at this point some of those pensions could be in jeopardy if the market does not recover quickly . Guest i think theres no question about it. That those pensions will be just like businesses. If we are doing a bailout for businesses we should do a bailout for pensions on a commensurate level so we make sure that Pension Plans for people who live on those pensions, live on those pensions and need those pensions to keep the economy growing can do that. This drop in the stock market is hurting everybody. Everyones saving, their 401 k , their ira, and our Pension Plans. If we are going to bail businesses out, we should bail out Pension Plans as well and make sure they can weather the storm and maintain the level of pensions that people have now. Host this is a difficult time for everybody. You have 12 million plus Union Members you represent. Union dues could be a problem for some people. Are you looking at potentially giving people a break . Guest well if they are not working, they do not pay dues. That is one thing for sure. We are looking at every way we can to put together packages from the entities that we have. We have a thing called Union Privilege or union plus, where we offer a series of benefits. One of those is mortgage and mortgage relief. We drop the payments on those so you do not have to do them during periods of time like this. Or if youre unemployed. We are putting together a series of packages like that. To offer them for members. We are also looking to put together a lump sum of money so we can offer to our unions if they get into financial trouble in this process so that they can keep functioning because it is more important for those unions and workers to have a strong voice now than it would be ever before. If our voice go silent than corporations and the bailouts will do exactly what they did the last time. They will use them for buyouts, stock buybacks and things of that sort. But they will not use them to keep people on the job. There will not be a voice pushing to expand Unemployment Insurance so it covers everybody for a longer period of time at a higher amount. That is really what we should be doing. Host mr. Trumka, you put a lot of issues. On the table and i was wondering, have you talked to that Trump Administration about Unemployment Insurance and these concerns . Guest i have not talked directly to the president. Ive talked to the leadership on the hill. We have talked to and sent messages directly to the white house. They know our position. We know there is. We know theirs. We are trying to work through to get a passage in a bipartisan way that can do exactly what needs to be done, and that is give people protective health care or protective equipment first. 14 paid sick days. And an expanded Unemployment Insurance so that we cover more people for a longer period of time. Host let me turn to politics. Joe biden is the presumptive nominee. Are you prepared to endorse him . Guest while that is a process that we have and it takes two thirds of our members to endorse. Our endorsements come from the bottom up. When we have a process we will be coming together electronically before long to talk about that very thing to see if we have the necessary amount of support for that. I would anticipate that we do. Ultimately there will be an endorsement. Im not sure when it will be. That probably will not be until june or july because frankly we are focused on this crisis right now. And the safety and health of our frontline workers. And the benefits of people, workers were getting laid off across the country. Host in the past you have been a visitor, a guest at party conventions, democratic conventions. Do you have a sense that the Democratic Party will still meet in milwaukee . Guest there will be a contingency if we cannot me because if that is still going on and we have to be isolated from one another than they will not violate those rules. Im sure we will figure out a way to do it that preserves democracy and the will of the delegates, and comes up the candidate that really will ultimately take the white house back. Because this white house has not been very good, not only in the crisis, but for workers throughout the process. Host it sounds as if an endorsement of joe biden is a most inevitable. Is that a fair statement . Guest well, joe biden is not done yet. The primary is not done yet. Bernie sanders is still there. And we will make a decision, if he is still in at some point. If theres only one candidate and it is joe, then of course, we would be able to move that meeting up. Host in november we will have the election. We are now seeing the intersection of politics and the pandemic, with people having to go into the ballot box and touch a pen, for example. Are you favoring any sort of remote voting of some sort or mail in voting, some sort of alternative to give people the confidence they can vote without getting infected . Guest we have always been in favor of having an expanded early voting system. And voting by mail. A couple of states already do that. It works tremendously. Gives you time to think and look at the ballot. Then you dont have to think if its a bad day on election day or it is raining, you can get it done. We have always been an advocate of that. And we want to make sure we expand our early voting and not let it be contracted. That they do not use this as an excuse to try to restrict the number of people who vote. We should use this as an opportunity to make voting come to more people, and have more people be able to vote and avail themselves to the process of democracy. Host pivoting back to your conversation you have been leading for the last several weeks about the fact that we simply have not gotten the right equipment to those front line workers, there is also a discussion about a simple manufacturing capacity that we do not have enough. We are announcing the auto we are now seeing General Motors and ford and tesla, considering converting plants to make some of these. Is that good strategy, in your mind . Guest absolutely. We need to start making more and more the products. If you want to look at capacity, we only make 40 of the things we need for National Security in this country. 48 . I have been screaming about that for years. National security should make everything necessary for National Security around here. We make 48 of the stuff we need. Now they say we do not have the capacity to do health care. For an emergency that they knew was coming. So yes, we should convert plants we have now into being able to make things and we can do that on a small scale and we can do that on a large scale. There is a Small Manufacturer up in maine that is right now figuring out how to make masks. Because here is what is happening. We have nurses right now, that are cutting up gowns to make their own masks because they cannot get masks and respirators. Then theres a need for ventilators. In italy, the doctors were making a decision on who got a ventilator and lived. And who did not get a ventilator and died. That decision should never have to be made. We should have the capacity. We should be developing that capacity right now. The military has a Strategic Reserve and theyre going to open that up. But i fear that is still not going to be enough. We need to start having the capacity to make those ventilators, respirators, and all the protective equipment that we need. To keep our frontline workers working. Because if they come off the line, then we do not have anyone to take care of the sick. In fact, we have that in a situation right now, in danbury, connecticut. We are over capacity. You had more than 200 nurses that got taken off the line because they were exposed to coronavirus. They are over capacity with beds. And they have 200 nurses offline it now. Host let me turn to you and the aflcio, going back to your earlier point and you said this is a new chapter. A change in the way americans work and learn and earn an income. How is this changing the aflcio . Guest how . We have had to start training our members, our frontline members, and providing them with equipment that they should have been getting from the government or their employer. So we started that a number of months ago. What we do best, we have a structure that puts us in every state. So we are able to reach people in every state. And we are educating them now. We are bringing them together. We are finding out what they need. We are trying to use the power of solidarity to keep the fear down in this country and actually have people Work Together at a time that we need them to Work Together more than ever. Ever before. It is causing us to rethink the way we do it. We are operating remotely right now, from the aflcio headquarters. Our members, our employees are out. We are operating remotely. And we are ironing out all the things that go along with that. We are figuring out a way to do that. So it has caused us to rethink the social safety net. How we do things. Protective equipment that is needed. Manufacturing process. Rethink we are dealing with now, we are rethinking to make sure it works in this situation. Not last week. And hopefully next week. Lets make it work right now. Host bottom line, in your response to these questions today, you seem frustrated with the federal preparedness in all of this . Guest i think frustrated is perhaps part of it. Im also extremely disappointed. Because the started right after this ministration took office, when they got rid of a contagious workplace disease standard that should have been there. And then they had osha and they just let it atrophy. It has no leader. It has fewer people than ever. Those who are there im sure are working hard. But there are not enough of them there. Because they have taken so many away. And then they disrupt or dismantle the pandemic disease infrastructure that we have had. And then they knew this was coming. They did not do anything to get testing to people. So we have nurses out there. We have frontline workers out there. Firefighters. Emt. Letter carriers. Who go from home to home. They cannot get tested right now. To know if they should isolate, or they should not. As a result, it is going to cause more pain and more suffering. Unfortunately even more death because we do not get in front of this. It was not a game. It is not could be this is 15 people and up and down and it is over. That is just not true. How Many American people not prepared because of that . It was a sad chapter in our history. Im not just frustrated. Im disappointed. But frankly, im also hopeful. Because every time i go out and i see things you think are going to fall apart, people do this extraordinary thing. Americans come together. Nurses do more. Doctors do more. Transportation workers do more. Pilots do more. Flight attendants do more. Teachers adapt to our kids. It makes me so hopeful because i see them coming together with the resolve that says, nothing and no one is ever going to defeat this country. We are going to come together as a group we are going to defeat coronavirus as well. So while i am frustrated on one hand, and disappointed, im also more hopeful than in many years. Host was the president lying or misinformed . Guest does it matter . It was wrong. What he told the American People was wrong. And it hurts us. And it put us back. You still have people out there who believe this is a hoax. Imagine that. People still believe this is a hoax, because he said it. It does not matter whether he lied or he was misinformed. It hurt the american public. And it should never have happened. We deserve better than that. Host you talk about the painandsuffering rippling through the economy. Do you believe you may have to reopen contracts for units unions throughout the country, to potentially give a break to some of the employers who are facing pressure now . Guest we will partner with anybody. We have always done our share. If that is what is necessary. But we will not let them get a bailout and give ceos an exorbitant salary, do stock buybacks while they lay off workers and cut their wages and get bonuses to management. We will not do that. We partnered with them one time and that is exactly what happened. It will not happen again. It will be fair. It will be mutual. Americans that is what we do. We come together and do what has to be done. To get through any crisis or any challenge. And i have faith that the american worker, when given the right tools and right opportunities, can face any challenge, anytime, and prevail. I love the american worker. And i have total faith in them. Host we will conclude on that note. Richard trumka, joining us from aflcio headquarters, here in washington, d. C. The president of that union. And here in our studios from usa today. Both of you, thank you for joining us here on newsmakers. Be safe. Failed tosenate advance across virus a practice. Package. Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell hopes to have another boat tomorrow quitting ahead heres a portion of the majority leaders comments after the vote failed. Look, i can understand obstruction when youre trying to achieve something, this obstruction achieves nothing, nothing whatsoever, other than prevent us from getting into a position where there are literally 30 more hours, that they could use, to continue to dicker. Sweat a time when the country is crying out for bipartisanship and cooperation and we saw that over the last 48 hours when regular members of the senate, not in the leaders office, not the speakers office, not the speaker of the senate, we do not have one. We were doing just fine. Until that intervention. I want the American People to fully understand what is going on there. The markets are already reacting. To this nonsense. We have an obligation. To the market people. Us emergency and if we do not, i want everybody to fully understand, you see that ives on record, conspicuously avoided trying to turn this into a partisan effort four for 2 days. But it is pretty clear what is going on here. And we will have this cloture vote again at some point of my choosing. And hopefully some adults will show up. Understand the gravity of the situation. And the need to act. Before the markets go down further. In the america people become more depressed. Our lack of ability to come together under the most star neri circumstances, we have never been confronted with anything like this before. We are not immune to it in terms of the Public Health risk, coronavirus has had the senate as well. We have five members in selfquarantine. So ever but he understands the emergency, particulate when it hits close to home, is not just backing our states but right , so i wouldsenate ,ay to my colleagues, step up agreement soach an we can do what needs to be done. For the American People. Senate has voted down the third coronavirus economic package. Republican senators rand paul, mitt romney, Laura Gardner cory gardner, and rick scott are all selfquarantined and unable to vote. According to earlier reports, the cost is nearing 2 trillion. It includes Cash Payments to individuals, relief for small businesses, and funding for hospitals. Right now, q a. Susan christian mcmillen, uva historian and associate dean for social sciences, author of the book on pandemics. I wanted to ask you as we start out, are there any historical precedents for what the world is its appearance in right now with covid19 . Christian yeah, there are several