We are waiting to hear when lawmakers will return to work on that. They are in recess now subject to the call of the chair. Expect to find out where negotiations stand with nancy pelosi. She has scheduled a statement to reporters which is set to take place at 2 00 p. M. Eastern. We have live coverage on cspan. And with the ongoing coronavirus outbreak, lawmakers got an update yesterday on topics including the growing federal debt and the need to budget for emergency preparedness. The u. S. Comptroller general testify before a Senate Budget committee hearing. All called to order the steering of the Senate Budget committee. The hearing on Government Accountability offices annual report on the nations Fiscal Health. Today the committee will hear from congressnonpartisan watchdog of the nations Fiscal Health and the importance of confronting our critical fiscal challenges. Arelcome back mr. Dinardo, most usual and best witness providing information throughout the year that is extremely helpful to hitting off some of which are crises going to happen if we dont Pay Attention. This year and will kick off a series of hearings and discussion that i hope will help to inform Bipartisan Solutions to the problems we face this year and help build the foundation for next years budget cycle. The next few years should be significant for the Budget Committee. The committee has been working hard to enact reforms that improve transparency and accountability in budget process and help put us on a more sustainable physical path. We interest the bipartisan congressional budget reform act. I want to emphasize that word bipartisan. Date of the first time any reform bill has gotten out of the community in a bipartisan way since 1990. Were successful in turning when we are successful in turning this bill into a law, next congress would process the first budget cycle cover by its reforms. Markext chair will also the first budget cycle in 10 years not constrained by the budget control acts Discretionary Spending caps. In the months ahead, we will begin to lay the groundwork were returned to a series of discussions focused on the nature issues on our countries horizon. With that in mind, we are meeting today for an update on the most pressing threats to our nations physical stability. I am pleased to welcome back did general. Comptroller is issuing its Fourth Annual update on the nations Fiscal Health. For several years, this report has warned that the federal government is on an unsustainable path. Unfortunately, the budget outlook has grown even more dismal since last years report thanks to legislation enacted in 2019. Last year, gao predicted that debt prepares the size of our debt to the size of our economy and would pass it store go high of 106 by 2038, now the project will hit that milestone by 2034 harry if current laws dont change if current laws dont change. It also shows the cost of legislation enacted last june has taken on our already unsustainable fiscal situation. Due to this legislation, namely last years spending agreement which they attribute one in 7 10 trillion still have trouble with that word in spending increases over 10 years, the fy 2020 appropriations package that reveals the pay Affordable Care act, cbo now projects that debt as a percentage of gdp will sort to 174 of gdp by 2049. Soar to 174 of gdp by 2049. A 30 increase from last years projection. Cbo warns that feeling to confront our rising debt will mean a future of slower Economic Growth, higher Interest Rates, and a greater risk of a fiscal crisis. As the deficit grows, we borrow even more money to fund the government, the Interest Payments on the money we borrow will overtake all other spending. This should be a major red flag for everyone. Already the annual Interest Payments on our debt exceed what we spend on agriculture, transportation, and Veterans Benefits and services. All combined. By 2041, geo projects our annual Interest Payments will be more than what we spend on medicare. By 2044, Interest Payments will exceed what we spend on Social Security. By 2049, Interest Payments will exceed total Discretionary Spending. We can and do have shared debates on what our Spending Party should be, but Interest Payments on our debt, arent even debatable. We do not get to decide whether we want to spend that money on health care, defense, or retirement security. It is already committed. It is the most mandatory funding that we do. And if we stay on the path we are on today, that interest will become the largest category of federal spending. I mention this committee had advanced on a bipartisan vote the budget process reforms and senator whitehouse and i introduced, and you all amended, to make it an even better bill. Our bill take several steps toward a more active, thoughtful, and functional budget process. This includes reorienting the budget resolution to a twoyear cycle and incorporating the debt limit into the budget process, in a way that would minimize the threat of default. Cycle. Incorporating the debt limit into the budget process, in a way that would minimize the threat of default. We are also as a percentage of the overall economy. A debt to gdp glide slope, this would emphasize our fiscal trajectory and help to get us on a more sustainable fiscal path. One thing we will certainly need, as we confront the hard cy need, as we confront the hard decisions ahead, is reliable, financial, and performance data. Earlier this year, i introduced the cfo vision act with senator warner, grassley, johnson, purdue, and lankford. I expect the general is for this bill as a grew out of a hearing we had with him last october on the cfo act. The reform proposes with standard cfo responsibilities to enhance strategic side dishes and megan strengthened w. Cfo authority to ensure continuity when vacancies occurred. It also calls for revised planning requirements and metrics to help address longstanding challenges. Like better linking cost and performance majors, modernizing outdated like to see systems. I should mention the suggestion we have put in a request to omb to get us a list of all federal programs. Havent got it yet. Seems to be some problem with the definition of what a federal program is. I think i can help with that, if they would just give us a print out. All of the payments that go to any entity, if an entity is getting money from us, it is one of our programs. This is my last year in the senate, it is my sincere hope that we can take concrete steps toward a sustainable fiscal future before i leave. A return to sensible budgeting would be a good start. I hope that members today will Pay Attention to the urgent message from congress is nonpartisan watchdog, our current federal, fiscal situation is unsustainable, and we must act before it is too late. I want to thank comptroller mr. Dodaro for being here again, and again. And for all the delightful information he shares with us. When we follow up on it, we get results. I look forward to his testimony, and i dont think that we have a Ranking Member statement today. I think it might be preparation for a debate that is coming up. So, i dont know if senator grassley wanted to make any comments . Ill ask questions. Okay. We will move on to our witness this morning. As i mentioned is gene l. Dodaro, the head of Government Accountability office and comptroller general of the united states. Mr. Dodaro testifies frequently before congress, and i am pleased to welcome him back to this committee, he is the eighth comptroller general of the united states. He was confirmed in december of 2010 after serving as acting comptroller general since march of 2008. Mr. Dodaro has been with the gao for more than 40 years. He served nine years ofs the chief operating officer of the number two leadership assertion at the agency. Prior to that he had a gaos accounting Information Management division, which specialized in financial management, computer technology, and budget issues. That requires a diverse background of information thats been extremely helpful and has gotten noted every time that you have testified, so with that control to the general you can begin. German sir thank you very much mister chairman, senator grassley senator brown. It is a pleasure to be here today to discuss our latest report on the fiscal help and government. As we convene this discussion today, our country is confronting a pandemic that is threatening the Health Safety and economic wellbeing of our citizens, our businesses and our economy. I make that point because it is relevant to our message today. Why it is important to put the federal government on a more longterm sustainable fiscal path because the federal government needs to have the budgetary flexibility to marshal resources to deal with a myth emergency situations. Im concerned our report talks about that our deputy ratio as of the end of last year or 79 . That is the highest it has been since world war ii when we had the historic high as 160 of debt to gdp ratio. And that also contracts with that to be gdp ratio since 1946 to only 46 so we are very leverage than that at a time when we are going to be facing a steady annual deficits of a trillion dollars a year for as far as the eye can see. This will mean that our death gdp ratio and fiscal policy changes will hit their historic high of over 100 of gdp within 11 to 14 years. And depending on the estimates that are made by gao cbo, the financial reporter, the federal government issued by treasury and omb, they all result in the same conclusion. More importantly than that, is that that that will continue to grow to 200, 300, 400, 500 of gdp. This is why we believe the current path is unsustainable. The Social Security programs is already at one trillion dollars. Medicare and medicaid is expected to hit a trillion dollars each by 2026 which include state money for medicaid. And the interest on the debt will hit a trillion dollars by 2032 so right now, our total federal budget is 4. 5 trillion dollars. Those four programs are active with these alone will be four chilean dollars relatively soon. That will crash out a lot of other opportunities for spending and ranging from the fence to the whole panoply of discretionary programs to the country. So we need a plan, to deal with this. I recognize that we need to deal with short term student prior to National Priorities and make sure we have strong Economic Growth, but we also need a plan to put us on a better path. I was very pleased, mister chairman, to see the bipartisan bill that was passed out in this committee that would set the debt to gdp targets and with also dealing with another trouble scenario that i pointed out in the past setting the debt limit approach it does not control the deck, it is dangerous and the fact that it can disrupt treasury securities if it is not raised in time. Treasury securities marking and increase inches across the four governments we need a different approach. Youre approach that is included in the bill is a good approach. It is one of the options that we suggest of tying into the budget resolution. In addition to this fiscal policy decisions that need to be made there is still many opportunities to save additional money. We have pointed out in our report that this year the amount of improper payments across our government jumped from 151 billion to 175 billion, largely driven by an increase in medicaid an improper payments and i think that number will go up higher but we can talk about that later. There is also opportunity to consolidate overlap, duplication and fragmentation of the federal government. So far actions on recommendations that save 262 billion dollars. We have outstanding recommendations that could save tens of billions of dollars more. There is a lot that can be done to deal with this issue. I, again, and closing, applaud the committee for taking action in this regard. Both on the bipartisan budget, reform bill, as well as the cfo legislation. I would be happy to respond to questions mister chairman. Thank you very much. Thank you, and thank you for the documentary provided with a lot more information than that. I will turn to senator grassley questions. I will take you up on that, and i will go to the agricultural committee. Mr. Durham, your testimony said that Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation and trust funds protected to be depleted by 2025. I am aware of that and we are working on legislation to try and help that out along with other aspects of multi employer. After 2025, if nothing is done bbcs premiums will not be enough to pay benefits to the and solve it plans and so alexander and i, jurisdiction over some of this we are trying to work on that. There are other proposals as well. I think everyone recognizes the longer we wait the worse the problem becomes. I wonder if you can comment on the need for action to shore up to multi employer Pension System and whether you think that would be prudent to continue to delay action. . Senator grassley, i think it is one of the most urgent issues facing congress. Ive been concerned about the multi employer plan for a number of years. I wrote a special message to congress about this back in 2014. Congress took some action at that time but it was not sufficient enough to deal with the longer term problem if congress does not act there is about 11 Million People that are insured in the Pension Plans and once it goes insolvent the only benefits the government will be able to pay his 2000 dollars a year. If that. To these people, or pension. It is hardly adequate. The government will fail these individuals if it does not act i encourage you to continue your efforts and your colleagues to act on this issue. Also, the Single Employer Program while it isnt a current surplus situation, has tremendous exposure over the long term as well. Said 160 billion dollars of potential losses to that program as well, but the multi employer plan is the most urgent and i want to encourage swift action on part of the congress to address concerns by these americans that would be affected. I want to entitlement series and see cbo and others have been telling us for a long time about Social Security and Health Care Entitlements and our interest issues on the debt that are unsustainable. In order to do that we have to reduce deficits and debt, Social Security will exhaust by 2024 and we will be paying a heck of a lot less Social Security benefits if we do not do something about that. I want to get to health care spending. I have a bill with senator widened to reduce drug braces in save taxpayers money we can allow over all health scare spending subsidies to go faster than the economy grows. If we are serious about reducing our debt, my question to you is dont we have to control the growth in federal spending on health care and entitlements . Absolutely. Congress needs to do that. The Fastest Growing class in the government are health care across and interest on the debt. The Health Care Cost as you point out senator are growing faster than the economy and are projected to continue to do so in the future. There has to be some changes. By 2026 there will only be enough money in the medicare house spittle trust fund to pay 89 cents on the dollar of benefits. That is right around the corner. That would affect millions of americans that rely on the Medicare Hospital Trust Fund cross and put enormous pressure on the federal government. Any suggestions that you make are good ones. We have other open recommendations, and in addition to bringing down drug costs, for example if you if payment on the federal government on medicare, for doctor visits depends on what you go and would place you get. If you go to a Doctors Office that is affiliated with a hospital, medicare pays you more money than if you visited that same doctor in a private practice. If you equalized benefits he would save billions of dollars in that area. We have a number of open recommendations. I will provide them to this committee for the record. I will provide them to your staff as well, but you absolutely have to control Health Care Costs. That is the most complicated part of this whole equation. If you do not control Health Care Costs, you really do not have much of a prayer of reducing the federal governments deficit and debt issues. Thank you for your courtesy. Thank you. We will let you go to the egg meeting from where he just came from judiciary. Senator brown. Thank you mister chairman. Ive been here a little over a year, and probably, the First Committee meeting said vividly stuck in my mind is when you were here roughly a year ago. Of course, who said basically everything than that you are telling us now. I guess what amazes me most about this place is highly seemed to shrug it off like its never going to have impact in the president. Health care costs, undoubtedly, are the driver. I took it on in my own company 15 years ago in there are solutions. Mostly, the reason we are not making any headway on Health Care Costs as i have never seen an industry more doug is, stubborn and wanting to maintain the status quo. When you have 80 u. S. Senators have not come up with some idea with how to fix your business, that is like that to buy for across the head, and nobody is paying any attention. From pharma to hospitals, the whole him of practitioners as well. Then you have the Health Insurance industry which is kind of the darth vader out there which keeps everything behind closed doors. It is not embrace any of the elements in most free markets which would be north barrier to entry, fools transparency, robust competition in unengaged consumer. We have none of that. Senator grassley, has been most aggressive and this is all mild stuff we have been trying to get done. Health education labor and pensions are among that committees. We still have not settled surprised medical fills. That has got to be the easiest lowest hanging fruit you could ever imagine to pick to solve an issue. And i have not talked to anyone who likes a surprise building. Youve got the doctors arguing with Insurance Companies on how to fix that. Sadly, i do not think were going to do much. The guy that has been most aggressive and instrumental has been the president , and whenever he tries to do things like advancing pbms this counts directly to the pharmacy or the individual, it hits the court system the next day. When you tried to push a transparency bill. I use the opportunity then, and i do it now and i do it often. Because this microphone is probably the biggest asset we have as the senator since we get nothing done and general. Health care could be solved. So the onus is on the ceos that it runs this increasingly concentrated industry to embrace some of the stuff. I dont know whether we can legislate quickly enough to get anything done to get anything in time. There is a guy out there named bernie who has a different point of view, and his case that the system is broken is 100 correct. Do we go to a win payer system to fix it . Where do we do what could be done, what i did in my own company, take the best of what weve got, shrink it, by the industry embracing without what all an other Free Enterprise is due . I dont know. Im going to ask you this question is and i am sure looks like we have room for more questions. Sadly this should be the most well intended committee here, and it is dealing with the subject that no but he wants to get into the weeds about. What do you see, looking into the future, because we know all the information, you do not need much more to have than a finance 1 01 degree to know how our peril we are. What is the event, or a few events that happened down the trails to sweat this whole place into a higher alert which would mean solving fire crisis . What do you see the most likely thing or two occurring . Our report and testimony has a timeline of some significant events that will occur, that will force congress to act. I have already discussed one of those with senator grassley here with his question on the multi employer pension plan. That is right around the corner of 2025. Devastating effect on the people that were supposed to be protected by that program. If Congress Fails to act. The year after that the Medicare Hospital Trust Fund as i mentioned, we only have 89 cents on the dollar. Congress will have to act at that point. The medicare and beneficiaries are not going to be able to step up to cover that cost without causing calamity with their own personal finances. We have an aging population, so there are more people being covered and the medicare program. The Social Security program by 2034 which isnt much further, would only have enough to pay 77 cents on the dollar. I do not think congress or the American Public would accept the 23 cut and Social Security benefits for a lot of people whose sole reliance of income is the Social Security system. As i have testified before, people are not saving much on their own. Some people in high incomes are doing well but a lot of people are not. There is not a saving. The Federal Reserve what percentage of benefits once you crash it in 2030 . Four you can only pay 77 . That is for the old age survivors market. The civility part is different at the old age survivor, the main one that people rely on for income. Tens of millions of americans rely on that system. So you have these inflection points that will force congress to act. The message that i have been trying to convey is the longer you wait, the more draconian changes are going to have to be made. You cannot face them in overtime. One of the things with Social Security, there are a lot of proposals and some bills have been introduced in the congress to solve this. I wont say it is easy to solve, but compared to health care, i think it is more sociable, but the sooner you do that, you allow people to adjust their own circumstances to this. If you wait much longer now, the fourth if issue i would playing up that will cause action will be the rise in Interest Rate cost even the low Interest Rate cost that we have right now, the cost of on our debt, has gone up 113 billion dollars in two years from 2017 to 2019. It is up to 300 or 76 billion dollars right now. We are up from 263. Even our low Interest Rate environment, and 61 of the debt we have held by the public which is almost 17 trillion dollars will have to be refinanced over the next several years. You are not only financing a trillion dollars of new debt every year you have to finance now rates are still low but that does not always have to be the case. I think we are flight to safety helps treasury securities, but on the other hand 40 of our debt is held by foreign interest. China and japan primarily, little lot of other countries, and i dont know if we want to rely on that as a source. The more that the government takes up of deficit financing the last investment there is for the private sector investment, so it will have a dampening effect on Economic Growth overtime. These are things its almost like a cancer that you have that you cannot see and it is eating away at our ability to maintain long term ability and strength and our economy, and had the flexibility to deal with things like natural disasters or pandemic that we are dealing with right now. That is going to cost a lot more money. Potentially, the damage the revenue stream it will have a double whammy. Cars will go up revenues will go. Down we need to have have more fiscal room to deal with these issues in the future, and to deal with these major entitlement programs. So that is the scenario icy. There will be other unforeseen events like we are dealing with right now that will come up as well, but the spikes and Interest Rates, we are going to be in a bad situation. Thank you. Thank you questions thank you for your questions and i appreciate you mentioning the surprise medical bills. I was trying to make a distinction there, the surprised medical bills are when people receive a bill that is much more bigger than the Insurance Company will cover, but when that would solve a lot of problems for people is prompt billing. I have a bill that would require that originally would require the hospitals to gives you a list of services you got as you leave the hospital. No amounts. Just so you can check and see if that is what you really got. Then, within 30 days, fill in the amounts and you can check them up so you can see whether they are paid or not. They told me that 30 days was not sufficient and it ought to be 45 and they moved it to 60, and i agree that we can do it and 60. But with comfy pewters today we ought to be able to give the amounts as you leave the hospital except for those that are outside of their list of providers. But they want 90 days now. If businesses had that same kind of a billing process they would all be out of business. So thank you for bringing that up. Again, i appreciate all of the great answers that you give. You report points that are growing debt to gdp ratio means a current federal fiscal path is unsustainable. You mentioned in your testimony the budget process reform bill this committee reported to the senate last november uses that gdp target as a metric and measuring how well congress is adhering to the fiscal blueprint. Could you discuss the benefits of establishing the shared fiscal target particularly and debt to gdp target . Yes. First the debt to gdp ratio is a well recognized International Standard of the countrys ability to repay the debt that they have. A lot of other countries use it as fiscal targets and combinations with the school rules and operating procedures. I think it is terribly important, mister chairman in your opening remarks you mentioned that 2021 is the last year that the budget control act mandates caps on Discretionary Spending. So once that goes away, there really are no hardware. As there is no guidelines, there is no federal policies to how much debt that we want to take on as a country. Without gdp debt to gdp ratio, we have nothing that we are planning for, and i think it would mean that the deficit that situations will grow unchecked. I think that that is a really dangerous dangerous path. I think having a target, having a glide path as you outlined in your path in your plan where we can check along the way, have operational rules on controlling expenses, and expect expenditures rather, over a period of time, its important. There has to be some effort to deal with mandatory spending and entitlement programs, we have to look at the revenue side of government, and we have to look at that was the weakness in my opinion of the budget control act, is it only focused on Discretionary Spending which was not the main driver of the deficit and that situation. That is where we make long Term Investments to. An infrastructure in other areas. Its brought in different dimensions i do not think solved a long term problem nor does it really provide the proper framework work for Investment Decisions that need to be made by the government so having the debt to gdp ratio in fiscal rules that accompany it is a good approach. I appreciate those comments. Particularly you mentioning revenue and spending. That is going to be something done both those categories. Senator. Thank you mister chairman. I want to ask you a couple of questions about strengthening the coming control act in the bill that passed out of the committee the bipartisan congressional reform. Acts we had a bipartisan amendment that i propose that was adopted to do that. As you know, congress, currently faces a real problem with our budget process, making sure when Congress Appropriates funds they are actually spent as congress directed. In the empowerment control act creates the process by which a president can notify congress diffuse deferring off temporarily which is allowed only in limited circumstances or the president can proposal citizens for fundings which he believes or she believes are no longer needed. One of the provisions in the amendment that was adopted by the committee would require the office of management and budget omb to publicly disclose their a portion acts. In order to prevent agencies from overspending their appropriations federal gives omb fortunate powers to control when appropriated funds are released to agencies so my question is if a win be publicly disclose their apportionment actions in realtime, which that provide information to you at gao, that could help you enforce the empowerment control act . I think additional disclosures would be helpful in that regard. I would ask mr. Chairman with your permission for two things one yesterday Tom Armstrong the company tray here to the hearing testify before the house Budget Committee and outlined all the suggestions we have for strengthening the obama control act. I would ask that his testimony be entered into the record in todays hearing with your permission, and also i would like tom to elaborate on my answer if it is okay. And maybe with clinician and white appreciation. Thank you mister chairman and maybe what we can do is instead of like going through each of these questions, if its okay with you, but the general counsel could just quickly take off those key elements that you mentioned the other day. Because we are working on Bipartisan Legislation now to try and make sure that we strengthen the ability to enforce the empowerment control act. Would be very happy to good morning everyone. I do think that requiring the only to publicly host the apportionment schedules and the reapportioneds because during the course of the fiscal year, they engage in reapportioned divvies as well. I think Something Else that they can do with you as they apportions funds they can send the abortion and schedules to this committee the house Budget Committee, to the appropriations committees and to the committee with oversight of the programs that are funded by that appropriation in that apportionment schedule. Another thing the coronavirus crisis. Sadly and regretfully we have learned of the tragic deaths of at least 41 americans from this Public Health emergency so far. American people expect and deserve a coordinated sciencebased and holistic government response to keep them and their loved ones safe. It is a response that puts Families First to stimulate the economy. Ut