[captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] good morning, everyone. Welcome to the first Budget Hearing of the Senate Appropriations committee of justice, science and related agencies for fiscal year 2021. Today we have the honor of hearing from wilbur ross about the president s Funding Priorities for the department of commergs. Welcome, secretary ross, thank you for your appearance, we look forward to hearing from you this morning. As we know the department of commerce executes a broad range of critical activities for our nation, things that are important for every american. Things that are important to us as members of the senate and issues we care a lot about. Research and development, cutting edge technology, predicting the weather, increasing trade and investment, recruiting businesses to our communities. The census has been a significant component of the departments business for the last several years. The president s f. Y. 2021 request is 8 billion which is 6. 7 billion below the f. Y. 2020 enacted level, which represents a 44 decrease in the departments overall budget. While this is a large decrease on paper, much of it is due in large part to the planned ramp down of the funding of the 2020 census. That said, i am troubled by some of the proposed cuts to core programs that are overshadowed by the magny thifed reduction to the Census Bureau. While this is a budge hearing about fiscal year 2021, we cannot overlook that in under a month, the department, through the bureau of census, will be receiving millions of responses from the public for the desenall census. We have provide funding to ensure resources are available for a time and accurate census and i encourage everyone to fill out their forms. I am pleased to see it will increase investments for fish in initiatives to main the United States position as a leader in innovation but i believe we must also recognize that 90 of the nations Innovation Sector growth occurs in five metropolitan area, all of which are located on the coast. This underscores the importance of continued funding for the departments nationwide Economic Development programs which will allow us to expand the geographic extent of all innovation economies, of the innovation economy and capitalize on the potential for all regions of the country. The budget the departments Budget Proposal also includes a 25 million increase to prepare ntia for testing new Wireless Networks and advancing Spectrum Management can is an important component of us, the United States, winning the 5g race. However, i believe its almost however, i believe we must also not forget concerns from communities across the country who are not able to fully access broadband because theyre underserved or unserve. Im interested to hear how the departments proposed investments will address this issue as part of the budget request. Mr. Secretary, i applaud you and others in the administration for recent tridrelated achievements including the United Statesmexicocanada agreement and the phase one trade deal with china. These deals are critical for restoring and stabilizing markets for american exports, which are the lifeblood of the kansas economy. We are an export state and these issues matter greatly to me. Though the departments f. Y. 2021 budget does not include requests related to these agreements i would like to hear what role if any the department will have in regard to supporting the trade agreements i just mentioned and trade agreements still contemplated. The tariff process is a large component of the f. Y. 2021 trade budget. In light of the Inspector General management alert which details several concerns irregularities, i have renewed my concerns about the fairness and transparency of the overall execution of section 232 exclusions. It is beyond time that the department of commerce get this process right. Another way that the department significantly impacts everyday life for communities and citizens is through the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, noaa. Their programs are important to people of kansas and we regularly experience weather events and water events. Im pleased the f. Y. 2021 request includes funding for noaas satellite bus im disappointed theres no funding for its core Operational Assets including its fleet of aircraft. These are unquestionably critical for addressing the needs of our nation. Currently the department has a people problem. The vacancy rate and time it takes to hire across the bureaus has become problem mat ig. E. D. A. Has filled only 24 of 55 position, 44 , that are responsible for overseeing and executing the nearly 1. 2 billion that e. D. A. Received in f. Y. 2018 and 2019 for disaster relief. Within the office of Office Inside noaa responsible for managing our nations constellation of weather satellites theres a 24 vacancy with 240 vacant positions, 132 of which have been vacant for two years. We must ensure the department is sufficiently staffed and im interested to hear what you have to say in that regard. I thank you for being here, preert the relationship we have and i look forward to hearing your views on these and other matters in todays hearing. I now turn to my colleague and friend, the senator from New Hampshire, senator shaheen, for opening remarks. Senator shaheen thank you, mr. Chairman. Good morning, mr. Secretary, were glad you could join us this year. As senator moran indicated, the budget is really about our priorities and where the department puts its priorities. And so if we look at this budget what does it say about the priorities of this administration . The major increase in this budget is for the office of the secretary. 35 million or 58 . At the same time, the budget cuts Scientific Research and development at the National Institutes of standards and technology by 14 , overall it cuts the department by 30 . At the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration by 40 . The research provided by these agencies leads to innovation that fuels american technological leadership. The budget eliminates more than half a billion dollars in noaa Grant Programs, critical to helping communities understand and prepare for Climate Change and to support our seacoast and fisheries in New Hampshire and across the country. I was disappointed particularly to see that the budget eliminates the 10 million that the committee secured last year to help the new england fisheries which have really been devastated by the reduced catches for decades and any additional fees will drive so many of the remaining fishing operations out of business. The budget eliminates the Manufacturing Extension Partnership that helps domestic producers improve competitiveness at a time when so many of our small and mediumsized manufacturers have been hard hit by the administrations tariffs. Trade wars have cost american businesses and consumers 50 billion according to an Organization Called tariffs for the heartland including at least 111 million in New Hampshire. The budget also eliminates the Economic Development administration which funds Infrastructure Projects in communities around the country and its particularly important to maul states like New Hampshire but states also that have large rural areas that need help with development. So mr. Secretary, i have to say it feels like were in groundhog day, the movie. We have seen these same proposals decimated each year of the budget submission by this department. I understand that in the first year of the administration, given that youre looking at where your priorities want to be, but when Congress Rejects those decisions to see it submitted again and again seems to me that theres a disconnect between where we all should be going to support business and commerce in this country. On a separate topic, the 2020 desenall census begins next begins0 decennial census next week. I appreciate your commitment to say you want to get this right. This is the largest peacetime government mobilization. Its imperative that we do get it right because the census is used in congressional apportionment and directs 1. 5 trillion in federal funding. In fiscal year 2020, the committee providing 7 ppt 5 billion for the Census Bureau, sufficient to fully cover the cost of the 2020 decennial including addition a additional outreach to hard to count communities and provide a contingency if major issues arise. I look forward to getting a briefing in coming weeks from New Hampshire as theyre looking at the census in our state and i look forward to seeing how the department executes this huge challenge. I look forward to your testimony and the discussion today. Senator moran thank you, senator shaheen. Senator shelby, were honored to be joined by the chair of the full committee. Senator shelby i ask that my statement be made part of the record and i look forward to the testimony. Senator moran secretary, its time for your testimony. Mr. Ross senator moran, members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to discuss president trumps fiscal year 2021 budget request for the u. S. Department of commerce. Its a privilege to appear before you today. We are committed to working with you to grow the u. S. Economy, defend our industries from unfair foreign competition, and protect our national security. The 2021 budget for the Commerce Department achieves these goals by providing the resources needed for successful completion ecennial census. By ensuring American Leadership in space by bolstering trade promotion, trade enforcement, and export controls. By providing for satellite acquisition and vessel recapitalization for the National Oceanographic and tmospheric administration. Generating timely Economic Data needed by businesses to analyze markets, invest in communities an hire american workers. And by supporting research, development, invention, and standards in leadingedge industries and technologies. In the short time allotted to my opening statement, i will discuss three priorities for next year. First, the Census Bureau, then space, and then trade. The request for Census Bureau for fiscal year 2021 is 1. 6 billion. Im pleased to report that with your support we are on budget, on schedule, and on track to accomplish the 2020 decennial census. Next years budget supports the important postenumeration operations for determining apportionment and the allocation of federal funding. The Commerce Departments office of space commerce is the second Priority Initiative that urgently needs funding. Hour request of 15 million advances u. S. Leadership in space as we shift responsibility for tracking tens of thousands, in fact, hundreds of thousands of pieces of space debris from the department of defense to the department of commerce. The pokes nene rble growth of commercial satellites is increasing geometrically the risk of catastrophic collisions that could generate additional debris and threaten critical space assets. The task of tracking this debris and providing accurate warnings to Space Operators was set forth in space policy directive number 3. Finally, the budget requests 474. 4 million for the International Trade administration. The i. T. A. Enables u. S. Companies and their domestic employees to compete on a Level International playing field. We seek an additional 5 million for i. T. A. s enforcement and compliance division. To keep up with the increasing number of antidumping and countervailing duty cases. Funding will also enable us to conduct additional reviews of foreign acquisitions of u. S. Companies as required by the Foreign Investment risk review modernization act, or firrma. In my time with you today we can discuss the chers departments budget request for all the bureaus, including noaa, nist, the bureau of industry and security, the u. S. Patent and Trademark Office and other agencies within the department. Thank you and on behalf of the department, ill try my best to answer any questions that you ave. Senator moran mr. Secretary, youre right, a short amount of time for a Big Department with a lot of roles and issues. Let me start my questioning concerning noaa and aircraft recapitalization. Mr. Secretary, i touched on this in my opening statement. Noaa recently provided the subcommittee with a notional plan to recapitalize its fleet of aircraft. While i recognize the president s budget doesnt include funding for that, i believe projected obs lens of noaas aircraft demand we take action to recapitalize those assets. Do you agrea that noaas fleet of aircraft are in need of recapitalization and could you elaborate what the immediate needs for aircraft are . Mr. Ross yes, mr. Chairman. Noaas aircraft recapitalization plan was published in october, 2019. And it looked at longterm recapitalization strategy and the management of current aircraft. The plan recommended noaa procure two aircraft based on the 2018 appropriation. Consistent with this plan, noaa was able to procure two additional aircraft, a gulf stream 550 and king air aircraft. Utilizing fiscal 2018 appropriations. These aircraft are essential to ensure noaa maintains the ability to plan for and respond to the nations most damaging and most deadly weather events. Agricultural security and water security. The plan also recommended the future purchase of a third aircraft. That third aircraft is being studied right now and it would have the primary missions of charting, surveying, and weather forecasting. So that was very likely to be a king air but they have not made a final decision as yet. Senator moran mr. Secretary, thank you, i would appreciate it if you or your staff would follow up with me, the subcommittee, in regard to the cost to cover that recapitalization including that additional king air mr. Ross id be delighted to, mr. Chairman. Senator moran let me turn my attention to trade. I mentioned in my opening statement, usmca and the phase one deal with china. What role will your department play in helping implement, monitor or enforce usmca and the phase one trade deal with china . And does the f. Y. 2021 request support that role . Mr. Ross let me answer the third part first, yes. The budget request does provide the funding we need for those roles. The roles we have played so far have been working very closely with ustr to help them develop the want list, the negotiating list, the product list that theyve had. Subsequently, we will be dealing with the enforcement of the rovisions that are in there. We are very confident that we have the staffing and the expertise to perform those functions and were in constant communication as between our ffice and ustr on those. Senator moran thank you. Let me pursue the section 232 excuse process. The president s budget requests an increase of 3 million within i. T. A. For section 232 exclusion process which is based off previous spending reports i take to mean the total cost to administer the process is going to be roughly 18. 5 million in f. Y. 2021. Mr. Secretary, is 18. 5 million amount that the department is that the amount the Department Needs to effectively execute this process . If not, what would you say is required . And as you know, there have been criticisms that were levied against section 232 exclusion process by the departments Inspector General in late 2019, and there are members of congress who certainly are dubious about that process. The second part of my question is would you assure us today that this process is being executed in a fair, consistent, and transparent fashion . Mr. Ross yes. Basically for the Inspector Generals comments, there were three suggestion he is made, all of which we have adopted. His instructions were well themed and we have implemented each of them. One was to make sure that any ex parte communiques were posted and made available to everybody involved. Second was to make sure that once we posted a decision it was regarded as a final decision. Those are the really two big, important parts of his of the Inspector Generals recommendation. And we have we are adhering to those. Once in a while, it does become necessary to correct an error. So thats the only deviation from regarding the posted decision as final. What causes that is the huge number of requests that we have received. 171,742we have received exclusion requests. 138,243. We posted there have been 31,381 objections filed, and thats an objection rate of about 23 . Weve processed 112,819 requests. ,011, 87,808, denied 25 and returned for improper or incomplete filings some 31,553. We have active pending cases, 27,322. Meanwhile, we have achieved a 79 decrease in the initial posting times. D we have achieved a 63 decrease in decision times under the new portal system that we introduced mid year last year. That is greatly that has greatly serted the processing that we do. On average, the department now posts requests within three days of submission. It renders decisions in cases without objection within 59 days of their submission. So what really takes the time are the ones that have objections to them. Because that requires going back and forth between the applicant and the objectors to determine whether or not the request meets the requirement of product that is not made in sufficient quantity, sufficient quality, sufficient timeliness, to meet the applicants requirements. So theres a lot of give and take and thats the variable in the time equation for when objections are raised. When there are objections, in the case of steel, we have in 18. 8 exclusion of the cases and in the case of aluminum, despite objection, we have granted the exclusion in 21 of the cases. So more or less 20 of the time, when there have been objections, its proven that they were not well founded and therefore we granted the exclusion request in any event. Senator moran thank you. I recognize senator shaheen. Senator shaheen thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate the effort that the department has to try and improve the exclusion process. But i just have to point out that there are a number of Small Business folks in New Hampshire who weve heard from who, while the percentages may sound good, still are affected by the process. One of those is a company in amherst, New Hampshire, called walkin pets. Its a 35person pet supply company. Their signature product is a dog wheelchair thats been produced for them in china. Theyre subject to tariffs. The Company Believes thats a mistake so they helped they hired a lawyer to help with the exclusion process. The company has been unable to get an exclusion because the tariff schedule is misclassified. Theyre just trying to stay afloat. While i understand that the numbers may look better, the fact is, we have too many Small Businesses that are struggling because of these tariffs and when i ask ambassador lighthizer a year and a half ago what the administration was thinking about to help these Small Businesses in the same way theyre helping farmers, the answer was, zero. You know. There isnt anything thats being done to help them. So i would just urge you to let us know if theres more there are more resources needed. But weve got to help these Small Businesses especially as were looking at some of the struggles around the coronavirus for businesses to be able to stay afloat. Mr. Ross certainly, a supporter of Small Business. It happens though that the 301 tariffs are the domain of the ustr not of the department of commerce. So i think your discussions with ambassador lighthizer are the right ones to have. We are in the the ones who can grant exclusions under section 301. Senator shaheen hopefully youll weigh in with ambassador lighthizer about the needs of Small Businesses. Mr. Ross im happy to carry informally to the ambassador your comments. Senator shaheen i was disapointed to see the proposal economic he development organization. At a time when communities and Small Businesses are facing these challenges, it would be helpful to continue to support those efforts that can make a difference for them and one of the its also inconsistent with a recent tweet that you issued supporting the Economic Development administration and we have a copy of that here. Where you said that the Trump Administration continues to work diligently to rebuild communities devastated by natural disasters by providing Small Business with Gap Financing to recover and grow. This investment will create stronger communities within the region and then you go on to talk about the Revolving Loan funds and economically resilient communities and the fact that the e. D. A. Is the agency that is helpful with that. So i dont understand the inconsistency between eliminating this agency and your comments about the effectiveness of it. Mr. Ross the e. D. A. Has been a useful component of the department, its been useful to the economy. However, the fiscal 2021 budget supports the Broad Administration goals of promoting national security, public safety, Economic Growth, and job creation. But but given the need to prioritize commerces funding, budget requires difficult decisions in order to maintain the core activities. Unfortunately this is one of the difficult decisions that we had to make. I understand the difficult decisions around funding. But at a time when were trying to promote the growth of Small Businesses and economic innovation, it seems to me that, to eliminate one of the agencies that has been most successful at that is shortsighted. Shah shah im glad that the administration mrs. Shaheen im glad that the Administration Working with congress was able to get the u. S. Mexicocanada trade agreement approved. Thats important to business in New Hampshire. But 97 of exporting firms in our country are Small Businesses and only about 1 of those Small Businesses are doing business overseas. And one of the things that is so helpful to them is the International Trade administrations Global Markets division, particularly the commercial service that is within the u. S. Department of state that is part of the Commerce Department. So, again, i dont understand if were trying to reduce our trade deficit, trying to grow our exports, why we would want to eliminate those agencies that are helping our Small Businesses do that. R. Ross well, mr. Ross well, we are continuing very actively at the Foreign Commercial Services to have programs specifically geared to help small and mediumsized businesses. And in terms of the usmca, raising the levels in export is a great help for Small Business. Because a lot of them are Retail Businesses selling relatively lowprice consumer products. So that really opens up a very much bigger market for them. Further, the Digital Services components of the usmca and of the japan agreement are also useful because for Small Companies to export, as a practical matter, they cant afford to set up an off offshore. So they need office offshore. So they need to use our guise and they especially need to use the Digital Economy as a means of marketing their products. So we have been working very hard in those regards to be responsive to the potential export needs of Small Businesses and large ones, for that matter. Mrs. Shaheen which i appreciate and thats why its so hard for me to understand why youre cutting those very programs that would help those Small Businesses, like the commercial service. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator shaheen. Now the chairman of the committee, senator shelby. Mr. Shelby thank you for your service. This is your fourth year as secretary of commerce. Thats a pretty long tenure. Mr. Ross longevity. Mr. Shelby right. Thank you very much. I want to have a conversation here with you for a few minutes about the census. The census is very is a very Important Mission of the department of commerce, set out in our constitution, and its the responsibility of the secretary of commerce and the Census Bureau under you to meet those responsibilities. Bring us up to date on where you think we are or where we are as far as the census which will be upcoming this year. Mr. Ross yes, mr. Chairman. Well, my biggest worries had been twofold. One was, would the systems be up and running, would they be integrateable, would they be ready to perform . Because we are in the process of bringing technology to the census. The most prominent form that that has taken is the availability of responding by internet. Its not a requirement. People can still respond by paper just as they always have, but now they can also respond over internet or by phone. So, im happy that the systems have been passed, all of their tests, we think theyre ready to go. As to the other big hurdle, my biggest worry was, how do you hire up to 500,000 parttime workers in a relatively full employment [indiscernible] yes. Its a real challenge. So what we have done is a number of things. One, we have worked with all kinds of organizations in the private sector. Some of the retailers who only have seasonal needs like walmart have been very cooperative to us and theyve given us access to the people they lay off seasonably. Second, weve made a huge outreach to colleges and universities because college students, given that its only a parttime job, given that in many areas it pays 20 an hour or more, its a very attractive job for college students. Third, weve gone back to the people who previously had served as census takers and animesing indemnify of thm number an anaysing number of them are happy to do it again. Particularly retired people and particularly spouses who dont want fulltime employment but would like parttime. So what is the net result . Mr. Shelby mr. Secretary, can i ask you to pull the microphone closer to you . Not being picked up on the live feed. Thank you. Excuse my interpretation. Mr. Ross should i repeat what i said or continue . Much better. Mr. Ross ok, sorry. The net effect is this. Had had a goal of getting 2,600,000 people to begin the application process. 2,06,000 have now initiated the 2,056,000 have now initiated the application. Thats are a very good ratio compared to the up to 500,000 that we need. Similarly, we have 2,662,000 hat have achieved thentry into our computer the entry into our computer system. So we have roughly five times as much applicant pool actively here as we need. So, were very happy with how thats been going. The other part we really emphasized is partnerships of local Community Partnerships with trusted organizations and National Partnerships. In terms of community partners, we have already lined up and ave working 321,496. In 2010 they had about 256,000. So thats quite a lot more. Similarly, we hope to reach 900 National Partners by the first of april, which is the key date. We already have 743 onboard. In addition, weve worked with state and local authorities to create for us completecount committees. Complete e now 10,833 count committees. Including we have statelevel complete count committees with 48 of the states. We only lack two states from that and those are peculiar reasons to those two states. So i feel all those aspects are in pretty good hands. And therefore i feel quite comfortable that we will be able to accomplish what we need to. Mr. Shelby thank you for that report. Thank you. Thank you. We now recognize senator leahy. Honored by your presence. Mr. Leahy thank you very much. m glad were having this. Im glad secretary ross has come back here. I hope youre going to be more honest with the committee today than when you were than you were when i last spoke to you when you were before this panel back two years ago, in 2018. I asked you when you testified here in may, 2018, why the Trump Justice Department would suddenly ask you to include a Citizenship Question on the census, to enforce Voting Rights. You deflected my answer. You testified, well, the Justice Department is the one who made the request of us. You then testified before the house that your department was responding solely to the Justice Department which initiated the request for the Citizenship Question. Your statements were totally false. Theres now an avalanche of evidence showing that you repeatedly pressured both the reluctant Justice Department and Census Bureau for nearly a year to support adding the question. In may of 2017, you told an aide that, you were, quote, fistified mystified that nothing has been done in response to the monthsold request to the Citizenship Question, closed quote. After you were told that the Justice Department refused your request, you personally discussed it with attorney general sessions from the Justice Department [indiscernible] question. Now, you left every sengle member, democrats and republicans alike, on this subcommittee, with the distinct impression that your department had absolutely nothing to do with the origins of the Citizenship Question or the Voting Rights pretext. So my questions are, why did you mislead the committee . And why havent you corrected that falsehood for the record . Mr. Ross my statements were correct then, they were true then. They are correct now. And they are true now. Mr. Leahy every bit of the bit of the ve seen evidence weve seen shows that they were not true. Everything that weve seen from the Justice Department and everybody [indiscernible] not true. In fact, in early 2017 you were in touch with steve bannon and chris kyo back about the question. You said it was important for redistricting. Adding the question became a priority for you. I want to repeat the question i asked you two years ago. Where did the push for adding the Citizenship Question come from . Specifically, who was the first person to push you to add this question . Mr. Ross im sorry, who was the first person mr. Leahy to push you to add this question. Mr. Ross i dont know that any well, i dont know that anyone pushed know add the question itself. My conversations with people in the executive branch are privileged and are subject to the constraints of that privilege. Mr. Leahy your answer the last time was on record. You said that you were not the one to initiate this. Mr. Ross i did not. The fact is the Justice Department did make the request. Mr. Leahy after you pushed. It mr. Ross very elaborate process of examining the request. We have filed publicly the basis that we used, the on which we came to the conclusion that i did. That is all a matter of Public Record. Mr. Leahy the matter of Public Record is the questions that you did not answer correctly the last time. What privilege exists with chris cuobach, there is no executive privilege there. Mr. Ross hes certainly not part of the executive branch. All that he asked for was that i take a phone call and listen to what he had to say. I did. He requested that we add a whole bunch of questions to the ensus, none of which we added. Mr. Leahy you know i dont think youre any more forthcoming than you were the last time. I know when the Supreme Court struck down adding this question, chief Justice Roberts called your justification contrived. As my time is closing, ill ask you, a month ago i saw you interviewed during a fox business interview, that the coronavirus is good for american businesses. Senator shell by and i shell by and i will have shelby and i will have on the floor in a few minutes the bill to dramatically increase the amount of money the administration has asked for on coronavirus. Do you still believe coronavirus is good for american businesses . Mr. Ross those quotes were taken out of context. This is an interview i had with maria and her question was about the longer term impact that it would have. I began my response by saying that nobody wants to do a victory dance over a deadly virus such as this. But i went on to add that the supply chains will be reexamined and in fact are being reexamined as a result of it. So im afraid the excerpt that you cited is totally out of context and is not a complete version of what i actually said, sir. Mr. Leahy i note that the [indiscernible] is now down 700 points. Go ahead. I now recognize senator kennedy. Justice kennedy thank you, mr. Chairman. And mr. Kennedy thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you, mr. Secretary. For being here today. Mr. Secretary, i want to talk to you about the seagoing fleet of noaa. Mr. Ross yes, sir. Mr. Kennedy its days at sea are down. Because the ships are old. And theyre falling apart. And we spend more and more money trying to maintain them and they fall apart faster and faster and faster. This congress and the last congress, and i think the one before, has appropriated about hardearned, precious taxpayer dollars to build new ships. Those ships have not been built. I understand it takes time. In the meantime, while were building the ships, would it not be prudent for noaa to think about leasing some seagoing vessels from the private sector so noaa can accomplish its purpose . Mr. Ross thats a very interesting suggestion, senator ken difficult. Ill take it up with noaa and see whether theres way that we can do that. Mr. Kennedy i would like to come see you, mr. Secretary. Maybe you could the three of you the head of noaa and and me, ill buy us all a cup of coffee and we can sit down and talk about this. Because even if we Start Building those ships tomorrow, its going to take a while and in the meantime, our current vessels keep breaking down faster and faster and faster and faster. And theres an easy solution to this. Unless you think theres no longer a need for noaa. And i dont think you think that. Mr. Ross no, to the contrary, senator. Mr. Kennedy right, i do too. Mr. Ross id be delighted to et up a session for you and me with noaa and lets have a real discussion of this concept. Mr. Kennedy great. Thank you, sir. A ant to ask you philosophical question and i want you to forget about the the ics and forget about disagreements that we in congress have had over legal and illegal immigration. The purpose of a census, as i let me ask you this, mr. Secretary. Does every country conduct a census . Every oecd country conduct a census . Mr. Ross i think pretty much everyone does. Im not sure, there may be some outlie that are doesnt outlier that doesnt. But generally countries do conduct census, yes, sir. Mr. Kennedy my understanding is that most countries that do well, all the countries that do conduct a census, they want to know the number of people in their country. They want to know where they live. They want to know who they are. Do you have more men than women , for example. Who is a naturalized citizen. Who is a citizen who was born into the country. Who is applying for citizenship. Whos in your country illegally. If people are willing to report that status. What is wrong philosophically, putting the politics aside, with asking the question . It seems logical to me. Are you a citizen . Or not . Mr. Ross well, many countries, m im aware, do ask one version or another of the Citizenship Question. Those include canada, mexico, united kingdom, ireland, indonesia, france, germany. So its not at all an uncommon question. Nor is it uncommon that it was asked historically in the United States. Mr. Kennedy we did it for a long time, didnt we . Mr. Ross yes, sir. Mr. Kennedy why did we stop doing it . Mr. Ross that i dont know. Even though ive been here several years, that greatly preceded my arrival here, sir. Mr. Kennedy thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator kennedy, thank you. Thank you. Following up on the census, i will not reiterate what senator leahy said. But i would be remiss if i didnt say to you that we do feel misled by your testimony regarding the census and the Citizenship Question. And because it was resolved by the court, i am prepared to move on because the Census Bureau has a very competent director. Mr. Schatz im prepared to move on. And because i think the most important thing that happens next is the administration of the census, i. A. P. Prepared to move on. But im prepared to move on. But i feel like i dont want to move on without at least stating for the record that there is a contradiction between what you told us and what eventually appeared through the court proceedings. But here is the question. And this is really important because a large percentage of the people who live in the United States still think there will be a Citizenship Question on the census. And so as the secretary of commerce, will there be a Citizenship Question on the census . Mr. Ross no, sir. Mr. Schatz thank you. Under federal law, census data is confidential and protected, correct . Mr. Ross yes, sir. Every census employee, including me, takes an oath, a lifetime oath, not to disclose the personal data. And as someone who is convicted of having done so, there are both monetary penalties and the prospect of time in jail. Mr. Schatz any identifiable information about a person, household or business will never be shared with another government agency, law enforcement, or court, that correct . Mr. Ross that is correct, sir. Mr. Schatz and under federal law, information collected may only be used for statistical purposes and no other purposes. Mr. Ross correct, sir. Mr. Schatz thank you. I want to talk you to a little bit about coronavirus. As you know, we have a lot of noaa core Corps Members who are colocated with the navy. Lots of us have department of commerce employees generally and noaa employees in particular. Im thinking about noaa in particular because of their because to the extent that theyre under way, theyed end up in very, very close quarters. So have you issued formal guidance, are you allowing the issuance of formal guidance in terms of the safety and security and health of the department of commerce employees . And if so, can we see it . Mr. Ross well, the various departments within commerce each have a different relationship to this potential problem. Youre certainly correct in saying that noaa has an individual problem of people being confined to a very small area on a vessel for a long time. We have been trying to follow the advice issued by the health authorities, which, as i understand it, largely requests that people be very careful about washing hands. Either using the chemical detergents or using a lot of hot water and soap. As far as i know, thats the best effort that one can do for prevention. Mr. Schatz i would ask you to follow up on the specific question of whether guidance is being provided to noaa Corps Members and my understanding is there are a lot of anxious employees within the department who want to know specifically what they ought to do. Not just sort of the general hygiene stuff, which i would certainly hope by this time everybody knows, dont touch your face and wash your hands regularly. But there are additional pieces of guidance, that are specific to the jobs theyre doing. And to the extent that that guidance is no being allowed to go out, id like you to follow up on that. Mr. Ross im certainly not prohibiting any guidance to go out from noaa and ill be happy to have staff either of noaa or of any of the other parts of commerce brief you in detail on what they individually are doing. Mr. Schatz it would suffice if you just second me what is being sent out send me what is sent out. I want to talk about scientific integrity. Scientific integrity. In your confirmation hearing, i remember what you said. You said, the science is the science. And then we had this Hurricane Dorian incident which i will not chew up my last 15 seconds on. But i want your commitment to cooperate with noaas scientific Integrity Division on the investigation into the Hurricane Dorian incident. Mr. Ross certainly. I definitely commit to cooperate with any investigations. And just to reiterate, i meant what i said in the confirmation hearing. I have not interfered with any report that any scientist has prepared. Whether its on climate or its just mr. Schatz see, i believe you, mr. Secretary. I believe you have not personally interfered. I think there are some instances in which you may have inadvertently allowed the interference to occur below the level of secretary and so i just ask you to supervise that question. And if i turn out to be wrong, then i would be pleased to be wrong. But it is i am not totally persuaded that up and down the chain, at the leadership level, that everybody shares your view on scientific integrity. My time is up. Thank you. Senator collins. Mr. Collins mr. Collins collins thank you, mr. Chairman. Ms. Collins thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary ross, thank you for taking the time to discuss with me some issues that are so important to my state. Maines lobster men and women have always been great stewards of the resource and leaders in protecting our oceans. In addition to implementing measures to ensure a strong lobster stock for decades to come, the Maine Lobster industry has also taken multiple actions to prevent gear interactions with Marine Mammals. This includes the replacement f 27,000 miles of alito in floating ground line of floating ground line with sinking line in 2009 and vertical line rules that removed 2700 miles of buoy line in 2014. So its not as if the industry hasnt revised its gears, spent a lot of money and done its part. And notably, and since its important, there have been no entanglements directly attributed to Maine Lobster gear in more than 15 years when it comes to the wright whale. Despite these effective previous measures and data indicating that ship strikes and canadian fishing activities are major contributors to wright whale mortalities, the Maine Lobster industry in our view is being unfairly targeted by noaas proposed regulations. And very troubling, some of the proposed regulations would actually pose safety risks to our lobster men and women. As noaa works to with the industry to protect this fragile species, it must do so without endangering human lives or livelihoods. And thats why in last years report, specific language was included. It goes on at considerable length. But i just want to read one line that says, noaa shall fully evaluate the feasibility and economic implications of any management actions relating to the north Atlantic Wright whale. So today im going to ask you, are you committed to following the direction that was provided by this Committee Last year and to ensuring that the rules that noaa recommends are done in consultation with the lobster industry, with the regulators, the in maine and throughout the region . And that theyre equitable and safe and dont place the burden on an industry that is not responsible for the state of this fragile Marine Mammal . Mr. Ross i not only commit to future collaboration, we already have been collaborating with the Fishing Community and with the states and with all the other interested parties. One of the complications is what you pointed out which is a lot of the problem actually occurs in canadian waters. We do not have Regulatory Authority over those waters. We have, however, been negotiating with them and as recently as the beginning of this week we got a new proposal from them, which on its face seems more promising than what we had had before. A lot of the ship strikes occur in the st. Lawrence seaway and thats been a big focus and the subtopic of that is when do you have the vessels slowed down what theyre doing . When do you not permit the vessels into those key areas where the female whales are domiciled . So there are a lot of very technical issues that were trying to sort out. On the safety issue for the lobster men, we understand that as you add additional traps to an individual line, it creates a potential hazard for the people fishermen as they etrieve the traps. Were keenly aware of that and thats one of many factors we will take into account as we try go forward with resolving these serious issues. Fishing in general involves a lot of tradeoffs, because there are competing interests at stake and so our task is to try to balance them. Senator collins i thank you, mr. Secretary. Tomorrow night is the annual maine fishermans forum, i go every year this will be a topic of great concern. Ive met with the industry many times, but this is one time of year when theyre all gathered together, not only the lobster industry but our fishermen as well. I would ask unanimous consent, i have a number of other questions on e. D. A. Which senator shaheens views i share on, on the Grant Program and on the zone between canada and the United States where theres dispute over who owns the water and thus whose regulations should apply that id like to submit for the record. I thank the secretary for his response. Senator moran thank you. Please make certain you answer enator collins questions. Four topics id like to get to, first, manufacturing u. S. A. , a strategy and now a network of 14 publicprivate partnerships across the country creating to ensure advanced manufacturing thrives in the United States, something ive enthusiastically advocated for. As im sure you know, the one institute sponsored by commerce has its marbgs in newark, delaware. Its the National Institute for innovation in manufacturing biopharmaceuticals. In the middle of our response to the coronavirus, this institute is particularly relevant as its helping to develop more efficient, more modern means for manufacturing things like vaccines and biodefense measures. So its leveraged roughly 21, its federal investment, got a leading network a network of the leading companies, but i was surprised the budget eliminates proposed funding for it, my hope is that thats because the bill signed into law by president trump, the Global Leadership and advanced manufacturing, glam, act which reauthorizes funding and encourages congress to stand up new institutes may have been signed after your budget was finalized. If you would, first tell me about your plans an how you might be adjusting your plans for funding for nimble and tell me how you see the value of manufacturing u. S. A. And how we might Work Together to ensure you have the rrs sos to deliver on this promising opportunity for the department of commerce. Mr. Ross im very much promanufacturing u. S. A. And in fact nist is requesting 25. 3 million in this budget for fiscal 2021. Thats an increase of 9. 3 million over the prior year. And the reason for that is to coordinate the Institute Network and to fund an open competition to select a new manufacturing u. S. A. Institute. So we are trying our best to be supportive of the concept of manufacturing u. S. A. Thank you, mr. Secretary. I look forward to working with you and the department on that. The specific point i wanted to emphasize is that the budget proposes eliminating funding for the one Current Department of commerce nist funeded and directing institute, which given the covid19 or Coronavirus Crisis spikes strikes me as a morely relevant institute to continue and the statute that authorizes its extension was signed into law by the president at the end of the last yearism look forward to following up with you and the department on this. Let me move to the m. E. P. Program. M. E. P. Is the Manufacturing Extension Partnership. Its something that i have seen on the ground in delaware, in my own manufacturing experience and then in local government, its value, actually your predsessor joined me in a visit to a Delaware Company which is a custom machine builder producing automation congresswomen. The delaware m. E. P. Help themmed get their certification and the commercial service just yesterday highlighted acudyne for its 2 million worth of new export sales. Exports sales the m. E. P. Was essential to ensuring. Can i ask if youre willing to reconsider the departments position of eliminating the m. E. P. , something i think has been a lowcost, highimpact support for manufacturing in the United States. Two things, senator. One, the m. E. P. Program obviously does do good work. Theres no question whatsoever about that. But the unfortunate thing is that the fiscal 2021 budget does have some constraints. This budget supports the Broad Administration goals of promoting national security, public safety, Economic Growth and job creation. Ven the need to prioritize funding, commerce budget requires difficult decisions. To maintain our core activities. And this is unfortunately one of them. We hope, sir, that it will be supported by local and state level people. There is considerable local and state level support, we hope that will continue. Mr. Secretary, in the minute i have remaining ill ask two more questions with the chairs for bearance. We had that exact Exchange Last year, ill do my best to make sure theres federal match for the m. E. P. Because in my experience the local experience doesnt meet the need and promise. I appreciate your comments that the m. E. P. Does gad work. Senator wicker and i have worked to pass a law to strengthen enforcement against illegal and unregulated fishing, a concern to all of us who are coastal states with strong fishing communities. I saw no specific investment in the department of commerces budget that would support noaas work to combat illegal, unreported, unregulated fishing and i appreciate some followup from your office on that. And last, let me just join senator shaheen and collins. I think they mentioned this in passing but we all have sea grant beneficiaries. Noaas Sea Grant College program which has long enjoyed bipartisan support focus os then practical use of coastal and ocean resources. In my state, sea grant works closely with communities to aquaculture, ster which is crucial to our inland bays. Ill fight hard for the sea Grant Program and i recognize its long enjoyed bipartisan support so its my hope when we appropriate for it, it will be fully inched. Mr. Ross as for aquaculture, we have made a specific request for funding for aquaculture. Its an important solution to lots of things. For one thing we have a trade deficit in seafood which strikes me as bizarre given the wonderful amount of ocean front that we have. So im a very strong proponent of aquaculture and continue to be plan to continue to be. Thank you, mr. Secretary. These two points connect to the extent we have i. U. U. Or unreported, unregulated pirate fishing off our coast and off other coast around the world that contributes to that export into the United States of cheap seafood. I appreciate your answers and appreciate the chairmans for bearance. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Secretary for being here. I understand this topic has been addressed, i want to make a quick statement of my vigorous support for the e. D. A. Funds that have come to West Virginia, particularly in this administration have been exceedingly helpful, expanded our abilities to expand our infrastructure and create jobs and particularly in rural areas where its very difficult to raise capital. We had dr. John fleming just recently in Putnam County and he announced several millions of dollars of investment in our state, that will be expanding that job creation. I wanted to get that on the record with you. Senator capito my question is totally different. Its on importing alume aluminum. R. Ross the topic is . Senator capito importing aluminum. We have a Large Company that uses aluminum to produce products. There was a remedy in 2018 that helped with the imbalance with china but we are seeing import is up. In your budget you have recommended alum aluminum import Monitoring Program within the i. T. A. And i was wondering with this new program, how will the department be able to monitor the aluminum imports to spot the bad actors and identify problem areas . Mr. Ross a couple of things. We earlier initiated a steel monitoring activity. That has proven very, very helpful to the steal industry because what it essentially allows is earlier identification of problems so that we can try to get after them. I believe the aluminum monitoring will accomplish very much the same purpose. Second, earlier this year, the president accepted my recommendation about prohibitions on derivative products, namely products both steel and aluminum that really are circumstance um vention of our basic tariff structure in that all they do is add a minor feature to what is essentially flat rolled sheet or coil or other product and then since that technically puts it as a new h. T. S. , then they bring it gone after several, most notably aluminum cable and wire which had been one of the big violators in our view of the circumstance um vention. Senator capito i would encourage you also to work with the manufactures who use these products to develop the best way o go about this. Mr. Ross the tariffs have increased the operating rate from 43 of capacity to 62 of capacity. Its not up to where we want it to be, we want to get it up to 80 , but at least directionally thats a pretty big percentage increase in the utilization of the aluminum facilities. Senator capito we have 2,000 workers in Jackson County in West Virginia which are very dependent on. This my second question is, as the federal government moves toward shifting toward the cloud, data to the cloud, noaa and other components have a mission that requires a horde iron infrastructure. So can you speak to the significance of this hard wire capability to our weather forecasting . We have a noaa facility in West Virginia. Mr. Ross there are myriad initiatives under way at noaa to improve weather forecasting. I would be delighted to set up a session for you and your staff with noaa and myself to get into the details. It gets highly technical very, very quickly so i think that would be the most useful way to respond to that question, senator. Senator capito all right, i look forward to that last question is on the broadband map. Many of us sitting around, we have been in various committees talking about the inaccuracies of our broadband map. The ntia was provided 7. 5 million to help us with developing served and unserved areas to make sure this is granular data and that its accurate. Do you have any comments on how that process is moving forward . Mr. Ross yes. Two things. One, we have made great progress in launching the map that youre referring to. We entered into a contract to secure gee ydwrask Information System platform that will allow ntia to take data sets from outside vendors and incorporate those into its own internal activities. That should permit ntia to implement a secure cloudbased approach to this problem. And so were very optimistic. Second, ntia has entered into data sharing partnerships with 13 states, california, maine, massachusetts, north carolina, tennessee, utah, virginia, and im happy to add West Virginia. Senator capito great. Good. I would just encourage anything we can do on that to make it more accurate. We found if you only rely on the suppliers youre not going to get accurate data. Its got to be an allin kind of proposition which i think is the direction youre moving. Thank you so much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. There was several trillion for noaa construction. Noaa has significant infrastructure needs. Let me continue by thanking you, mr. Secretary, because i you and noaa leadership have prioritized the construction of a multiphased project for noaa ships and related assets at naval station newport in rhode island. Senator reed i received a letter from dr. Jacobs that noaa will be committing the first 22 million to this important project and i understand that increased cost mace somewhat be reflected in the timeline. I received a schedule last february 5 from the navy that showed, indicated that noaa will provide the necessary design fund on april 9, 2020, with a projected design kickoff on april 22 and expectation is that the contract for the construction of phase one of the project will be awarded later in calendar year 2020. Can you confirm that this timeline is still on track . Mr. Ross to the best of my knowledge, yes, senator. Noaa is quite excited about it, theyre continuing to work with navy to move the project into the next phase, and they will compete all federal permitting, because some of that is needed, and state approvals, preparing for construction in fiscal 2021. Using the funds that were provided in fiscal year 2020. Senator reed thank you very much, mr. Secretary, thank you for your support. I deeply appreciate it. Let me turn to an unrelated question, the census. Again, i have to thank the chair and the Ranking Member because they would report language that was put in the census that would ask for specific outreach and targeting in Providence County, rhode island. Providence host how we can target what . Senator reed specific outreach and targeting to Providence County, rhode island. Ill tell you what you already know. There was one endtoend test last year of the census to get the bugs out, hopefully. That was in Providence County, rhode island, the only place in the nation. Because rhode island is a place of modest size, i have to put it in perspective they feel population of Providence County is 648,000 people. The population of rhode island is about one million. 2 3 of our state was in this endtoend test. What happened is were getting feedback, many people feel theyve already filled out the census. That all of this stuff is just extra. And what weve asked is that the Department Reach out specifically to this one county and say no, you didnt fill out the census. You have to fill out the you have to go fill out, etc. And if you could update me on these efforts, we did send a let for the january, were waiting for a response, but if you could update me it would be good if you could do that. And also are we doing this in languages other than english because Providence County is also a place which is not unusual in the United States, multilingual. Mr. Ross first of all, the endtoend test we ran in providence was a great success. Proved out the system. Proved out the a lot of things that we needed so were very happy with the cooperation of the local authorities. As to ads, we are running ads right now, digital and print, in english and spanish, and in radio. In case of radio were doing english, spanish and portuguese. We are try very hard to make thee proper communication. I will make sure that they do emphasize and i would hope you would emphasize in communications with your constituents that this was just a test. That they participated in last year. And i must say the Response Rates were very good. It was a very cooperative community including relatively good cooperation in the difficult to enumerate part of it. We will do the best we can to overcome their thinking that they might already have filled it out. Thats the problem with testing. You do a test, you want it to look like a real world test because if it doesnt youre not going to get reliable data. It can cause a little bit of confusion. Frment, its just localized in that one area, so we will try our best to deal wit. Senator reed well get back to you, mr. Chairman, if we see continued difficulties in this area. Let me conclude by saying thank you, gracias. R. Ross thank you, senator. Senator moran i recognize the senator from alaska but express senator ies to the from maryland. Is this a good time to take a break . Its been a little over an hour. I didnt mean to interrupt the senator