Transcripts For CSPAN Education Secretary DeVos Testifies On Presidents 2021 Budget Request 20240713

The subcommittee will come to order. Good morning. Good to the subcommittee will come to order. Good morning, secretary devos. Good to see you. Welcome to the subcommittee. This is our second Budget Hearing of the year. It is your fourth hearing with we are going to review the budget request for fiscal year 2021. Materials, this much was clear to me. To privatizeng Public Education. I believe it is the wrong direction for our students and for our country. We need to be moving towards earlying policies like childhood education, that we know helps students succeed. We see this in other countries around the globe. They are not shrinking public support but are expanding it. I will get more into the consequences that you are proposing, but i want to start by examining your privatization philosophy. The false premise on which it is built and the research. , theary to your claim Public Education system, which 90 of our children attend, has witnessed significant progress for all groups of students. Scores haveematics improved for fourthgraders by 14 . Eighthgraders 7 . Overall, reading improvements have been more modest. Fourthgraders scores improved and eighthgraders by 3 . Hispanic fourthgraders scores improved by 6 and eighthgraders by 5 . Higherre significantly than 40 years ago for all racial and ethnic groups. I reflect on that and i ask myself a question. Withoutuld we be federal investment . There is no question that there is more to do to just to address this disparity. We know that we face significant challenges. Education districts where they experience poverty, exposure to violence, all resulting in trauma. The solution is not less resources, nor is it more privatization. Just a quote for you from a cantor. Y dr. Pamela a psychiatrist. Cofounded an Educational Organization called turnaround for children. It translates the science of intoing and development problemsolving in our schools. She led a Team Commission to new york city on the board of education to assess the impact of a terrorist attack on Public Schoolchildren. What did she find . 68 of the children they observed experienced trauma but it is from their ongoing experience of growing up in poverty, not from what they witnessed that terrifying september day. Administration has shown how privatization has let students down. The Trump Administration evaluated the Scholarship Program and found that vouchers had statistically negative impact on the mathematic achievement of students. Massvouchers, lower achievements. That is not a loan data point. Studies multisector have found that no student achievement scores for children in private schools were higher than those in Public Schools by any statistically significant degree. They found it to be the case in indiana, in louisiana and there are other examples that i can make it available to you and tear staff. You push to privatize is not supported by data. The consequences would be to undermine the education of our students in every state, particularly for vulnerable students. Including the rural parts of our country. He would eliminate the highly competitive grant program. You would endanger academic tutoring, personal counseling and other programs 300,000 programs byslashing 400 million. It serves low income, firstgeneration students and students with disabilities, helping them to graduate. You would endanger Education Access for children. Gh home risks homelessness. 200 million. More than 1. 3 million enrolled children have experienced homelessness at some point. 7 . Ncrease of you would endanger youth literacy. Undermining efforts to support diverse teachers by eliminating the main program. We increased for the first time in many years. 2. 1 2. 1en Million Dollars away from this program. 40 of undergraduate students. While pel covered 79 of the inrage cost of tuition fees 1975, it covers only 90 29 today. Our students cannot afford for us to stand passive. Finally, your budget would risk exacerbating challenges of under converting it into the block grant. These districts already struggle with higher transportation costs and he want to undermine their funding in this way. It is unacceptable. You with all sincerity. This is not going to happen. It is not going to happen. I am supportive of the recognition of the state grant, career and Technical Education a proposed increase. I am disappointed that we are left with level funding. You have once again requested an increase for student loan servicing. We want to conduct more oversight. Many of these ideas stem from an oversight hearing that they held last year. I will need to see how the department implements the new requirement as i review your request for next year. There is a place for Charter Schools. They had a role in our education system. We have moved in the direction of creating a parallel education system. To this point, they have not been forthcoming. I believe Charter Schools should be held to the same rigor. Clearly, againre in my view seeking to privatize education Public Education. I hope that we are not going to do that because doing so ignores the research, indicating the games that we have made. There are many areas where it short changes students. Indicated on the board of education and it ignores the spirit and values of this country. No, we need to be expanding public policy, not restricting or reducing. I look forward to our discussion today and now it is my pleasure to turn to my colleague and member of the subcommittee. Thank you. This is my favorite time of year because i get to spend so much time with you and this committee. It is always a delight. Madam secretary, it is particularly a pleasure. A longknown you for time, long before we were in our respective capacities. There are two things i know about you. One is that you have always been for individualizing education. What is the right job, role or place for this particular student to be . I see a lot of that in this budget as well. It does not bother me. I like the idea that you are willing to break the mold and think about this because we have a lot of challenges. You are our chief officer overseeing the most diverse educational system in the world. Everything from great comprehensive, state institutions to regional facilities, private christian colleges. Like everybody else, most of the young people i represent and their families go to Public Schools. I have private Religious Schools , i have home schools and they all do a good job. Robustone of the most systems in the country and i was pleased with a number of proposals made in that regard. Looking forward to your testimony. As a former educator, i understand how important it is to have quality education. Importantof our most willing blocks. It impacts light it impacts development. To see itsed continues to prioritize resources to children who need additional support. As you know, i am a strong supporter of Technical Education and i am proud that my home state is delivering cuttingedge goods that can lead to paying and rewarding careers for students who do not wish to pursue a liberal arts degree. I am looking forward to asking you more questions about the substantial increases in your budget. I also want to recognize your thatsal for pell grants offer a credential in high demand fields. Offer hightunities employment in a variety of fields. Interesting to me how many times we have had members coming here pushing forfically Technical Education in terms of Job Opportunities and talking to employers. You really focus on a key area. Other membersto of congress who believe that it is time to make pell grant available. I applaud you for putting that on the table for us to consider. Your budget proposes to eliminate, consolidate and change over two dozen programs. Many of them make sense in terms of consolidation, but i believe i was shortsighted. It is no surprise to you. It is a possession i have held throughout my career. Im concerned about the proposal to consolidate several into a stream. Serveinstitutions distinct populations. I am sure such a change makes sense. Overlooked or , if they are not singled out or special attention. Acknowledge your proposal to address limitations. Aidblishing federal student is an issue that is worth thinking about. I do support your efforts to streamline and create a more user focused system. Next in ration project promises to modernize the student loan infrastructure. Support block grants, i do have concerns that consolidating certain programs could have negative consequences for the students we hope to benefit. Here that some are welcoming to Charter Schools and others are not. I know you probably know more about this than anybody else on the panel. I am interested in hearing your perspective on that. I know you faced a difficult challenge. This is not necessarily your budget. You work for the president of the u. S. You had to wrestle with a much smaller budget you otherwise would have chosen. Expect you to be supportive of the president s position on this. In a difficult position. Sometimes you are forced to make cuts that you did not advocate. That you sometimes make an argument that we might agree with appear, but publicly, you have to make the case. I respect that. Positions you the take. Frankly for, quite your dedication to Public Service. A strong quality education for students across the country will remain a fundamental priority in the creation of the hhs bill. My friend has always been a good partner in that endeavor. Chair of the committee or Ranking Member. Crafting aard to budget that balances our many priorities. Testimonyward to your and you will back the balance of my time. I think my friend thank you, my friend. We will put it together as we did in the past and now i would like to turn to the distinguished chair of the full committee for any comments that she might have. And thank you, madam secretary. I look forward to the exchange of ideas. Thank you for holding this hearing. This is the fourth budget request congress has received. It has been filled with program cuts and outright eliminations. Year, we areevious going to reject this proposal. The numbers do not lie. You propose illuminating 41 programs, cutting Education Funding overall by 6. 2 billion. The department of education studenton is to promote achievement and preparation for Global Competitive risks by fostering Educational Excellence and ensuring equal access. Your budget is clearly on a different mission. It would take more than my allotted time to read the complete list. Few. L only highlight a one demonstrates a lack of commitment across elementary, secondary and postsecondary postsecondary education. Your Budget Proposal has eliminated this crucial support. You propose eliminating fullservice Community Schools in my district. Elementary school was among the first to implement the fullservice Community School model. Integrating academics, strength family as it empowers communities. I was an author at the time. It is so exciting to see these youngsters. Parents of it all there, to have the parents come in and be a part of it are very exciting. I must admit that it was disappointing to me to see this program eliminated. Disappointing because i know your interest in educating all the kid. It is vital for combating inequality. Can learnmilies Afterschool Program so they can , but your budget request eliminates this funding. The one in five students help studentsrams successfully pursue degrees. He would cut funding to the need bye access they nearly 72 . 72 is a lot of parents and children who will not be able to access this opportunity. Access this opportunity. More than 2 billion in Student Financialaccess this opportunit. More than 2 billion in Student Financial aid and grants will be cut. Instead, squandered on a border wall. I limiting programs and reducing funds, this budget request would bridge the gap. Would your response address this concern. Thank you, madam secretary. I will ask you to take five minutes time to summarize. After that, we will proceed to fiveminute rounds for questions. Madam secretary, please begin. And members ofer the subcommittee, thank you for to testify ony the 2021 budget. To testify on the 2021 budget. It is important to remember that federal Government Spending does not determine everything that in the 2021 budget. It is important to remember that federal Government Spending does not determine everything that is important to us, nor is it the only solution. We the people overcome people overcome challenges. That is why this budget is focused on returning power to the people. Ourour budget begins by understanding that education is a local issue. It would not increase the authority of the government over education nor education nor diminish the responsibility for education, which is reserved to the states. This Administration Proposes withess aligned the budget that 40 year old promise. The budget would take a big with that 40 year old promise. The budget would take a big step towards the role and education so that families, teachers, state and local leaders are free to do what is right for the students. To do what is right for the students. It would expand budget freedom for students, so they can prepare for successful careers. It would refocus our approach to Higher Education so that students are at each Year Congress grew the budget from nearly 7 billion in 1980 to more than 41 billion in 2020 for k12 education alone. But what have we bought with all that spending . Just open up the latest nations report card to see the sad results. No real improvement in student achievement in decades. So instead of holding fast to what we know does not work, let me suggest we find the courage to do something bold and begin a new era of student growth and achievement. The every Student Succeeds act gives us insight into where to go. Ssa became law because education had failed. So you moved to restore the proper roles in education. The bipartisan to address local channels. This Administration Proposes congress compliment its work on essa and make the budget match the law. States must work with local communities and families to develop comprehensive plans. And so states should be able to pay accordingly. Into one single block grant. Overall, americans spend about 860 billion on k12 education every year. Last Year Congress appropriated about 24 24 billion of that. Or roughly 2. 5 of total education spending. And yet each year, teachers and School Leaders spend more than 2 million hours complying with federal recordkeeping requirements for that small slice of the pie. 2 million hours. More than 83,000 days. Teachers, administrators, and leaders need to work on people not paperwork. Results, not regulation. Different state wills invest their share dumpbtly and thats differntly and thats okay. In fact, thats what we hope they do. They can better figure out what their students need because they know their students. Every student is unique and each one of them learns differently. Every child needs the freedom to learn in places and ways that work for them. Thats why the president s 2021 budget also renews the calls for an investment in americans students. Our proposal is a dollar for dollar federal income tax credit for voluntary contributions to state based nonprofit organizations that provide scholarships directly to students. I like to picture kids with backpacks representing funding following them whereever they go to learn. The budget also requests an increase in supporting children with disabilities amounting to a total of 14 billion. Theres also a request for a dramatic expansion of career and Technical Education programs. At an overall increase of nearly 900 million, its the largest investment in cte ever. It includes a total for perkins state grants. Additionally were requesting 150 million, an increase of more than 135 million to fund stem activities led by hbcus and other minority serving institutions located in opportunity zones. This administration wants every student in america to have more education options that focus on preparing them for successful careers. Consider that fsa is a bank that has dra mat you cannily outgrown its structure. We propose a new governance structure and whether fsa should be a stand alone entity. In the meantime, were continuing to build on the reforms with one operating system, one website. And importantly on providing customers, students, and their families with a seamless student loan experience. In the end, our budget is about one thing. Putting students and their needs above all else. Its a budget that recognizes that no student and no state, no teacher and no town are the same. States need to be free to address the particular problems of their people. And students of all ages need the freedom to find their fit. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Im happy to respond to your questions. Thank you. Were missing larry keene. So welcome to you as well. To justify your cuts does not improve Student Outcomes. Student outcomes by northwest economists found statistically significant positive results for students in 12 out of 13 studies. Jackson concludes by and large the question of whether Money Matters is essentially settled. I dont understand, madam secretary, why do you continue to claim that Additional Resources to Public Schools do not improve Student Outcomes when the empirical evidence tells us the exact opposite. Im just going to i i admittedly have not read through all of them. I have read some of them. But this is by education experts. People who understand the suns science of learning and development and how it improves. The data is overwhelming. So i ask you again, how do you continue to make these claims that Student Outcomes do not improve when empirical evidence tells us the opposite . Chairwoman, let me just refer back to the nape results. But before i do that, theres a couple of things that you said in your opening comments that i need to comment to. First of all, im not out to privatize anything about education. Im out to make sure every students education is personalized. Individualized for them that they find the right fit to unlock their potential. So lets talk about personalization, not about privatization. Thats not the issue. Thats not the goal. And we have spent over a trillion dollars at the federal level to close the achievement gap in the last 40 years. That achievement gap has not closed one little bit. Thats not true. In fact, for many poor students its only grown wider. You look at the state by state results. You look at the Overall Results and they are dismal. Two out of three eighth graders cannot read or do math at their grade level. I would want to know where those schools are, what the environmental circumstances are, what kind of resources are going into those schools to the training of teachers and improving the lives of the families who live there and making sure that the youngsters have that experience. And the trained people that they need. If you deny the resources to the schools that need the help most, yes, you will fail. Im going to tell you actually, if you free up the resources for people at the most local level, you see results. You can see it in florida. You can see it in mississippi where they focused solely on improving reading outcoming. The district of columbia where the data from this administration has indicated thats not the case. You know, weve got scores higher in 2019 for most racial ethnic groups in both subjects and at both grades compared to the early 1990s. This is the nape data. Scores in math and reading are significant higher than they were 40 years ago. For all racial and ethnic groups. So the fundamental principle and the underlying philosophy on which you move forward and cutting all these programs and move to 5 billion for vouchers flies in the face of the progress thats made. Work together to understand the statistics, realize that what where we are. Know that there is a difference and weve got somewhere to go on an achievement gap. But lets not denigrate a Public School system that serves 90 of our kids and that is making gains. Let us continue to make those gains and quite frankly, the cuts you have proposed is double speak. It is double speak. Im just going back to your words that are the nape study. There youve got and as i said, youve got more studies we leased in 2019 reached the same conclusions. Including a study showing how extra money for texas schools had a particularly strong impact on low income and hispanic students. Im going to share the studies with yourself and with your staff. And with the members of this subcommittee to take a look to see if, in fact, the data belies the direction that you are taking Public Education in this country. And my time has run out. Let me yield to my colleague. Thank you very much, madam chairman. As i said in my comments, madam secretary, im really excited about your pell grant proposal. And your additional investment in career and Technical Education. So ive got a couple of questions along those lines. What you actually say that we would give these grants to provide credentials in demand fields. Im interested to know what how would you define in demand . What would actually be covered . Would that work . Would all the programs that have lets say a duly recognized state, would that be covered . Or do you have some sort of selectivity in mind . Well, our proposal really seeks to work with congress to determine what the definition around those programs and the extent to which they would be a part of a shortterm pel program. I know it various by region. And i think it would behoove all of us to work closely with regions and states and to look at what those opportunities are. But we would look forward to working with congress to determine that and to really address these opportunities for students. I actually find certainly in my state honest quite often young people are not so young. Obviously you can be any age coming for additional technical training. They literally end up with jobs faster. Usually than somebody coming out of a fouryear education. And its quite often a very highpaying job. Believe me. When you need a plumber, you really need a plumber. You cant wait around. And so, again, i applaud that. We get a lot of questions about this. A lot of student who is go to facilities are comparatively low income and frankly just the cost of college or the idea of assuming the debt thats often associated with that to them doesnt make sense. This really does. Im glad you put it on the table. Want to go to an area where frankly we dont agree. Thats on the trio and gear up proposals that you have. Ive got a lot of trio students in my state. Weve historically been one of those states that really benefitted from that. We really benefitted from gear up. Frankly i never met a single student or instructor in these programs that didnt think they were worthwhile. I look at trio, for instance. Since its inception its produced over 5 million college graduates. I think a lot of those young people quite honestly would not have had the opportunity or the support structure to succeed in College Without trooeio or the preparation thats necessary. A lot of family where is nobodys gone to college before really are not in a very good position sometimes to counsel their own kids or prepare them. And you dont want to send them to college and not have them successful. I want them to get that degree. Not walk out of there with a few hours and thousands of dollars of debt. These programs seem to do that. And i used to have this problem with the last administration which i thought underinvested in these programs even though historically we were always doing race to the top or some new deal when we had a couple of programs here that i think have demonstrated their utility over time again and again. So explain to me again the advantages you would see in the consolidation and the movement to formula grants composed to competitive grants in this area. Thank you. And i totally agree that these programs are beneficial and effective for many. Our proposal does seek to essentially move gear up into the trio program. And block to the states. The reality is that most of the awardees for the trio program are consistent year after year after year. And its very difficult for any new program to break into it. We think that by allowing that would tell me we should put more money in trio. And thats certainly your prerogative, but i think coupled with our proposal to block grant the elementary and secondary Education Funding of the 29 different programs and again provide a lot more flexibility at the state and local level, the answer for one district might look quite different than an answer for the other district. Fair point. I think coupled, it would be a really powerful ive only got about 30 seconds left, so let me just quickly ask one other thing. I know youve historically been a great champion of Charter Schools. And i do worry not everybody shares that point of view. You know, i think if you block grant these to states, a lot of the money thats been set aside specifically for charters honestly is apt to be diverted into the public system particularly even though through the normal, you know, k through 12 system. Particularly when, you know, the overall amount of money is coming down. Lets concentrate within the k12 system. These are more experimental or these are a little bit more outside the quote, unquote stream. Ive gone over my time. Do you have that . There are a hundred im sorry. A million families on the wait list for chafrtrter schools across the country. They i actually view our consolidation and block grant proposal as one that is additive and positive for charters. I talked with a number of governors about the block grant concept and theyre very excited about it. In states where they embrace this, theres going to be dramatic expansion. Im over my time, so i dont want the chairwoman to have to interrupt me. Ill interrupt myself. Thank you and id like to discuss this. Thank you for the indulgence. Congresswoman lee. Thank you very much. Thank you, madam secretary. Let me go right to this because theres still and this is increasing in terms of systemic injustices towards our black and latino students. First of all, you eliminated the 2014 School Discipline guidance to ensure students students. Let me ask you about the proposal now, this is a double whammy. To combine the preschool children who received out of School Suspension with those who received more than one out of School Suspension. And your proposal to eliminate preschool data by race and ethnicity. Without this distinction, its going to be very difficult to understand whether and what extent this trend persists. The ability to track this data is critical. While black students now, you got to hear this and understand this. Black students make up 20 of preschool children. These are babies. Right . They represent 50 of suspended, again, babies. Preschoolers. Dont forget also that the education department, your own data in 2013 and 2014 found that black preschoolers, again babies, are three times or more likely to receive an out of School Suspension than their white counterparts. In the last two years the subcommittee receive language detailing School Discipline in all preschooling and k through 12 classrooms and to also include it in your 2020 budget justification. Here you are again without having submitted this data. We went through this last year. Although your budget request says you will brief us on your plan with a horrendous plan to significantly alter this Data Collection. So why do you plan to change the Data Collection so that it really and thats what its going to do. Its going to mask the trends for out of School Suspensions of preschoolers. And we should have solved this. And we shouldnt have to ask you once again for this data. So thats my first question. What in the world is going on and taking so long for us to get this report that we required you to submit for the last few years . And also, do you believe that black students are punished and suspended at greater rates than their white peers . Yes or no . The data shows this. And these are babies. Sec. Devos maam, i agree and love children as you do and want to ensure that all children have the opportunity to get a great education. We have been focused on answering and responding to all of your requests. But you havent done that. We will check on that specifically you said that last year, madam secretary. And what i know and what i am committed to is ensuring that all kids have an opportunity i understand that. Madam secretary, you tell us that every year. But what about black and latino kids . Sec. Devos that is exactly my point no. Madam secretary, youre trying to mask this by saying youre not going to collect the data by race. How in the world can you say that you care about black and latino kids . The other report we asked you we asked you a detail on recommendations with regard to how to address adverse impacts of resegregation including designating title six school monitors to ensure every student has the opportunity for an equal education. Again, you said you were aware of this report, youd get it back to us as soon as possible. We still dont have this report. Weve tried and tried over and over again, madam secretary, to get these reports from your office. Theyre written into the bills. Theyre required. And youre just thumbing your finger at us. Sec. Devos that is not the case. Well, it is the case. Sec. Devos we are responsive. We have continued to be responsive madam secretary, on black and latino preschoolers, you have not been responsive. These are children who dont even get a head start. Because theyre kicked out of school. Before theyre even in kindergarten. Dont you think thats important . Sec. Devos i think each one of them is important. And i care about each one of their futures. Thats why im suggesting we do things very differently than what weve been doing. This committee has asked you for this data. And instead of providing the data and reports youre now trying to mask it by saying youre not going to use race and ethnicity to even present the facts. So how can you sit there and say that . We ask you over and over and over again every year. Sec. Devos i am committed to each of those children as you are. But youre not showing that. Could you submit wait a minute. Let me ask you about sec. Devos a report does not solve a childs problem. Wait a minute. Were asking madam secretary, were asking you for the report. We need the data to understand it. I would think youd want the data to understand it also. Thats all were asking for. This is basic. So why wouldnt we get the information that this committee has asked you for for two years about preschoolers being disproportionately suspended from preschool. These babies, these black babies. Sec. Devos lets talk about the lack of achievement when are we going to get the report . Sec. Devos lets talk about the lack of achievement and opportunity for so we cant ask you for these, madam secretary . I want to know madam secretary, are you just saying forget the reports . Sec. Devos no, maam, im not. Then when do we get it . Sec. Devos i will check on when that report will be available. Both reports on School Resegregation and the suspension of black and latino kids. You told us this last year. A year has gone by. And its outrageous. Sec. Devos thank you very much. Thank you, madam secretary. Whats outrageous is that 25 of our children, of our eighth graders cant read at grade level passage. Thats outrageous. And youre right, money doesnt solve this problem. You know, i had the privilege of being invited to the 15th anniversary of the osp program at department of education where we met the parents. All they wanted was a better life, a better schooling for their children. Madam secretary, you know that 90 of those students who took advantage of that program are black students. The vast majority of the rest are latino students. So to somehow suggest that you as an advocate for programs like that dont care about black and latino just doesnt jive with the data. Lets talk about the data. Significant progress on that, really . U. S. News and report about the last scores say across the board scores drop in math and reading for u. S. Students. It dropped. It didnt go up. There was no significant improvement. Sec. Devos uhhuh. And with regards to the disparity, its pretty clear the disparity has existed between the highest and lowest performers for 30 years consistently. Some people would suggest that repeating the same thing youre doing that doesnt work is insanity. Thats exactly what were doing in the united states. So im going to congratulate you on the suggestion for the education freedom scholarships. Now, i know its a bold idea to somehow believe should put parents in charge of the childrens education or maybe making their choice, because of course god knows we know better. Somehow some bureaucrat knows better, some academic sitting in some ivory tower knows better than the mother. Some of the mothers i saw at the department of education celebration who really knew what was better for their children and was not to be sent to the same poorly performing Public Schools because there was no competition. Let me tell you whats interesting in the nape scores. There was one jurisdiction in the country where actually the students performed better. Three out of four of the measurements. Washington, d. C. Because for 13 years before that test was taken washington, d. C. Instituted competition for a failing Public School system. And the academics go, oh, no, were going to compare the scores of the people, didnt go to the voucher schools, no, it didnt. Competition works and the education freedom scholarships will induce competition. Does a dollar for those scholarships come from the department of education budget . I think i saw it was the department of treasury budget . For education freedom scholarship, part of the department of this wouldnt take a dollar from Public Schools . Sec. Devos no it would be voluntary contributions. What could be the possible opposition to voluntary contributions to a program, and i think i have the facts right, about threequarters of parents favor that idea . The idea of actually giving choice and fact that this, i see 68 of africanamerican, 82 of latino parents, specifically about the program, 83 of African American parents want that choice. Why in the world would we deny it . Would you come up with any other reason other than teacher opposition . Sec. Devos i see no reason to deny those kids that opportunity. Madam secretary, thank you for putting up with what you do, with what you put up with, to stand up for the idea that every child and as an educator for 30 years before i came to congress, for the idea that every child in america and every parent in america deserve a choice of where to get sent to school. If they are unfortunate enough to live in an area or School District where their school is just plain lousy, they that should have the opportunity to go to a Charter School, or get a voucher, especially under the education freedom these are voluntary contributions to get a voucher to help those children go to a better school. I just dont understand the argument against it. I never will. Its about time we get raw politics out of education because its standing in the way. Because, you know, if you look at the statistics, yeah, there was improvement in the nape. We went from 31st to 30st in the last nape. In the world. It wasnt math or reading, i guess it was science. Thats pathetic. In the 21st century, we cant afford to be anything but first in the world, and i just want to congregatelate you on what you do to see to it that that could happen. I yield back. Sec. Devos thank you, congressman. Congressman. Thank you, very much, chair and madam secretary. Easiest question, we have a 5letter last name is it devos . Sec. Devos devos. My name too. Secretary devos, thank you. I want to thank you for not having cuts to special education and not cutting the Special Olympics. The fourth time is a charm. Thank you. Happy Public Schools week. Im sure youre advocating around the country for schools this week. Thank you. We had a strong bipartisan resolution with 90 people including our Ranking Member. Proud of the Public Schools we have in this country. I want to pick up on where our Ranking Member started talking about Charter Schools. This is where we dont have as good information. First of all on academic performance we know on Charter Schools about 1 out of 6 does better. About half about the same. But 2 out of 6 perform worse. I think theres something even worse. You mentioned what we bought with the spending. When you look at Charter Schools there was a report that said one thousand Program Grants were given out by the department of education given to schools that never opened or later schools because of poor performance or fraud. Its actually worse than that, 2,127 schools, that actually never opened or failed. Thats 40. 5 failure rate on Charter Schools. Thats an f grade when youre below 60 . And youre advocating for doing more fs or bs and maybe a few cs. But fs dont seem to be the grade we want to advocate for. Also there was a school, the idea charter chain, that have been awarded about 200 million in federal funds. Over the years they got a 67 million grant, another they got a luxury box. They purchased a property for one of their Board Members for 1. 7 million. I dont think eye School Board Member would sell their property. Another board member got the commission on that on over millions of dollars. Only after public scrutiny about they back off a plan to lease a private jet for 2 million a year for six years. My question on this terrible sfalure, youre advocating for, yes or no, do you think Charter Schools who receive federal funding should be allowed to purchase jets . Sec. Devos its not a yes or no question. Actually it really is. Its the definition of a yes or no question. Sec. Devos i have a few things to say about the things that you said. Can you answer my question please . Sec. Devos i have a few things to say about what you said about Charter Schools. Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my time. Sec. Devos the report that you referenced has been totally debunked as propaganda. Fewer than 2 of the schools didnt open. I give you the courtesy of making sure i could may say your name correct. Im asking you a question with a yes or no answer. If the secretary of education cant answer a yes or no i dont know why you should be secretary. Do you think federal funding should go to a school that uses it to buy a jet . Sec. Devos its a hypothetical question, obviously a no answer. Its an actual question. Sec. Devos there is no funding going to Charter Schools that would even address Something Like that. Another yes or no, they should be able to put sec. Devos Charter Schools are Public Schools. Reclaiming my time. Recliming my time. Sec. Devos choosing them and there are a million families on the wait list to go to Charter Schools. Just talking over someone isnt an answer, just so you know. Yes or no often is when its asked in a yesorno format. We also know on the same group gave such incomplete information over three years, didnt report accurate, no information on performance data, would you think would you give your staff a paycheck if they didnt perform 84 of their tasks, yes or no . Sec. Devos of course not. But everything youre citing is debunked, ridiculous. So i dont accept the premise of your question. Its actually not. Let me ask you this. Do you think its odd when people think your family runs a charter, correct . Thats a yes or no . Sec. Devos no. Your husband doesnt have a Charter Program . Sec. Devos he founded a Charter School. So when people think you may have a conflict of interest because of that sec. Devos absolutely not. Ill let you not do a yes or no, however you want. Sec. Devos i will respond in that my husband founded a Charter School which is Meeting Needs of students all over west michigan, and he is on the board, but he does not run the school. It is a organized as an notforprofit Charter School, and it is a Public School serving all comers. I think the fact that you couldnt answer yes or no when you look at this terrible rating, this is why people have a worry there could be a conflict. Sec. Devos youre wrong about Charter Schools. But 40 are closing down that youre giving grants to . Sec. Devos that is not true. It was nothing but propaganda by an individual who has an in for Charter Schools. What percent are failing . Sec. Devos i dont have a state youre the secretary of education and dont have this . You know this report is wrong . Sec. Devos Charter Schools are chartered by states, not by the federal government. You know that that number is not right but dont have a correct number . Sec. Devos what i know is parents and families are choosing to send their children to Charter Schools. Thats a yes or no, you dont know the answer . Sec. Devos parents and children are going by choice, and there are a million more families on Charter School waitlists. Thank you, madam chair. I do want to say that i am very troubled by the tone of this hearing. And i feel like our secretary is being badgered. And i would ask the chair to consider that as we move forward. Because i feel its very unfortunate that weve come here to help meet the needs of our children, the nations children, and i think the tone of this hearing is very disappointing in that regard. And i also want to say, as a person whos familiar with the secretarys record, i dont know of a Single Person who has been more engaged in policies to help minority students across the country than this secretary from all of her work throughout her career. So im very disappointed right now, but i do want to talk about some of the priorities. And also, as someone whos been a former school administrator, a Charter School administrator and someone who chaired a state education budget, i will say that the focus that you have on helping people closest to the student, and who care most for the student, making decisions to me is the right direction. So i want to compliment you on that. I know the there are a lot of issues we could discuss. But i just want to say that at the outset. Theres a few specific things i wanted to ask you to talk about. First, the Second Chance pell. I think one of the high points of Congress Working with the administration has been to look at Prison Reform and help those who have been in prison come back into the community and contribute. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about your plans Going Forward . I know theres interest in Community Colleges in my area, and participating in this. But if you could talk briefly about the Second Chance pell program. Thank you, congressman. I think this is an area where there is actually broadspread support, and a lot of great evidence. Ive had opportunity to visit three different prisons and see students that have i visited Tulsa Community college in prison in oklahoma last summer, and was just thrilled to see all of these mostly young men graduating with associates degrees, Certificate Program recognition, some of them completing their high school requirements. But it was a thrill to be there, and i think there is so much promise with this, making a Second Chance pell program a permanent one that is going to provide hope and opportunity for returning incarcerated individuals, and give them a really hopeful future. Wonderful. Thank you. And then i also wanted to talk with you, you mentioned preparing students for successful careers, and i know the federal work study proposals that you have really are aimed at inviting the private sector to partsicipate more. And i understand theres 190 institutions that would be invited to participate in a pilot program. I know in one of my areas, Midmichigan College is interested in participating in that. Could you comment on that briefly . Sec. Devos well, we think theres a real opportunity to help students get much more relevant Work Experience while attending college and in a federal work study program. Instead of working in the college cafeteria, if they are doing student teaching, perhaps, or clinicals in a health profession, or perhaps its in a business that has a relevance with the program theyre taking in their college, we think extending this opportunity and helping students get really relevant almost apprenticeshiplike experience while theyre in school studying is an important step in the direction of helping students succeed. Thank you. Also i think as parents, everyone is concerned about the higher cost of College Education. When you see that the debt that students are taking out and then just the burden that places on them in the future, can you comment about just what the administration can do to help alleviate the high costr of education but also Student Loan Debt . Sec. Devos this is a huge issue. Im not sure ive got enough time. Ill start with a couple of things. We have taken important steps, administratively to add a lot of light to what students can access through the college scorecard, and now students can go and go to look up an institution and then go down to the field of study or program, find out what its going to cost to attend that program and complete, and then importantly what their firstyear earning potential is after that. They can compare between schools, programs within schools, and this is going to, i think, help them be more discerning pro expectatively. I also think its going to help schools look more critically of what theyre offering and the what the realities are of what theyre offering. Perhaps its going to prompt some changes at higher ed institutions. And that is one way, bringing light to what has been a very murky kind of a reality, and so thats one way weve taken a step. Another way weve put the fafsaw form on the my student aid mobile app. Were continuing to add more and more information for students to model what their debt and Student Loan Debt would mean, and how they could pay off and have realtime information for that right on their app. And were going to be continuing to add more and more to give them more tools for financial literacy. Thank you. And thank you, madam chair. Can i just say if indulgence of this subcommittee. Id like to address congressman molinar your comments if i can. I have a great deal of respect for you and your work on this subcommittee. I think what you are hearing is a level of frustration about very, very important issues. And the two issues that have been addressed in a strong way when we cannot get reports. We are an appropriations committee. We put in a bill that required the department of education to get us reports on the data with regard to babies being expelled from preschool. We dont have that report, nor was there an answer as to when we would get that report. Thats a level of frustration. You would experience that as well. Further, with regard to Charter Schools, may i add that we held a hearing last year on Charter Schools. The oig raised issues that we need to examine including findings that states mismanaged Charter School closures and that the department failed to provide adequate guidance or oversight on the issue. We are the appropriations committee. We have appropriated serious money, more than 400 million last year alone. We need to conduct oversight. And so theres a level of frustration, and i night might add, when you can say about Charter Schools that gods in his heaven, all is right with the world, and you cannot do a serious evaluation of which ones work and which ones dont work, that means that the department is not doing the evaluation that we need to hear about. So wherein lies the frustration, congressman . Sure, please. I completely respect that and i what i heard the secretary say is she will find out the information on the report. And get back to the committee. And i think any secretary deserves that courtesy to get. And on this Charter School, i would just ask the chair to consider that Charter Schools, many have different missions. Some Charter Schools have the mission of educating adjudicated youth. And so the idea that were going to start comparing, you know, High Standard education with educating adjudicated yoigt and evaluate them the same, thats very different. I think this committee would be well served to look at the unique Charter Schools. I would also say to you that not our information but the office of the Inspector General at a public hearing that we had in this room last year claimed that there were serious difficulties. We have to look at that. We have to ask the department about that. So i, again, theres may i sure. Were a little off topic here. Thank you for the indulgence. Look, i have to speak up in defense of my member. I think mr. Molinar was right to say what he said. I dont have a problem with that. I have zero problem because i agree. We asked for a report. We ought to get it. Nothing wrong with that. We have some tough questions about Charter Schools, nothing wrong with that. But anything that thinks the tone was appropriate toward the secretary, it was not. We had a lot of people for four years when i was the chairman of this committee that i didnt agree with. I dont think i ever addressed anybody the way i heard the show secretary addressed ever. And i dont think any of my members did. Thats what i think the concern is about. That is a result of the frustration that people are feeling here, and quite frankly, to my friend, there have been members of your side of the aisle who have addressed folks who have come before this committee with a very big lack of respect. That doesnt say its right. But what we want to do is get through the frustration. We need to get answers. We are an appropriations committee. This is a serious amount of money that we are looking at. And there are deep concerns as to the direction of Public Education in this country. And if, you know ill say i agree there are deep concerns. I respect the frustrations. Theyre real. Thats part of lenglating. Legislating but its a little bit different in terms of how we treat our witnesses. Thank you very much, madam chairman. I appreciate it. It applies to both sides of the aisle as you know. It does on occasion. Thank you, madam chair. And thank you, madam secretary for being here. I promise to apply a combination of midwest nice [ laughter ] and a little bit of former investigative background. Interesting conversation. Thank you for being here. We are in the middle of a Public Health crisis, not just the coronavirus but youth vaping. And my folks in education back home asked that i call it ooerks ecigarettes because they think vaping makes it sound nicer than it is. But the numbers show that back in 2011 we had 1. 5, 1. 5 of our High Schoolers were doing ecigarettes. Now were at 27. About a third are now doing this. We just alarming. Thats why i call it an epidemic. At junior high in middle school, we are now at about 10. 5 of our middle schoolers. I couldnt believe these numbers when i learned these. We did a series of round table decisions in my Congressional District in down state illinois. And the one that really just alarmed me was that we had a School Resource officer said that there was third graders that were doing this. Third graders. This is easy to hide. They can put it in watches. They can put it in clothing. They can do it on these fake jump drives. So theyre doing this. And thats why we wrote a piece of legislation out of my office called the resources to prevent youth vaping. It is part of a bill that we package of bills that well be voting on on the floor tomorrow. And so what i wanted to ask you, i promise im bringing this totally into your department. Wondering if the department of education is coordinating with the centers for Disease Control and prevention to make sure that we have information that we can get out to our parents, make sure that we have resources that the teachers know about, that the School Nurses know about, and just wondering if theres any kind of coordination going on with your department in the centers for Disease Control and prevention . Thanks for that question. I know that there have been participation and task forces. Id be happy to check on the extent to which those are happening and get back with you on that. Yeah. If you could work with our office and make sure we are aware of this. I think its really just a commitment on your part. We were just with secretary azar yesterday, but i think working together will just be absolutely critical to help address this. Again, it is a Public Health epidemic that is impact be our students, children. I think that would be great. Switching gears. Lois frankel was saying im guessing youre going to ask something about illinois. I stay pretty focused on my own Congressional District. Really, really severe Teacher Shortage thats happening all over the country. In the Congressional District that i represent, were 14 counties, and we have seen the Teacher Shortage problem actually increase over the last year. Actually increase by about 20 that were seeing now. So in 2019, there were 195 teacher vacancies in these 14 counties that i represent. Now there are 235. Thats over the last year. This problem is getting worse, not better. I know in the president s budget, just a few things i want to point out for the record that are concerning to me. The Public Service loan forgiveness fund has a proposed cut of 50 million. Teacher Quality Partnership Quality Grant Program has a proposed cut of 50 million. The funding of the supporting effective educated Development Grant proosed cut of 80 million. Supportive instruction state grants cut of 2. 1 billion. Sec. Devos can i just interject . A number of programs that youve cited are the ones that we have proposed to include in the block grant, and would actually be very appropriate in your case and in your district if there is a drastic shortage, the district could the districts could target more of those resources and have the flexibility to use more of them for programs that would address the Teacher Shortage issue, teacher retension, teacher development, and give them a lot more flex inlt than the current scenario. Talk me through then, if you could, if the 17 seconds we have left, talk me through about how specifically so youve got the block grant proposal 37 this this is a mostly rural district i represent, 7,000 square miles, a lot of smaller schools. How will these block grants help specifically recruit, retain and fill all of these vacancies in a very, very rural Congressional District . Sec. Devos what it would do is allow for the districts to prioritize what portions of these 29 different programs would be most effective and most important for the needs in their district, to meet the needs of the most disadvantaged students. And it would allow them, again, to personalize and prioritize where those needs lie, more specifically than the approach of having 29 different programs, all with their own rules, all with their own regulations. These would be block granted to the state, and then 90 of them would go out directly to the districts under the title one accountability and formulation. So all of the accountability provision is there but much more flexibility for every district to be able to target the resources where they need the most. Ill yield back the time that i dont have left. Thank you. [laughter] congresswoman herera. Thank you for being here. The first thing i wanted to mention, and we talked about this a little bit, i have a few questions so im going to try and bang on through them. The practice of seclution and restraint. Weve talked about this before, of special ed students, i think is extremely detrimental to these young people. And the stories ive heard are, theyre horrific. What is the adinistration doing to stop the practice and ensure all students are treated with respect . Sec. Devos thanks, congresswoman. As we talked about, we have an initiative going proactively through all 12 of our Regional Office for civil rights offices to bring light to this subject, to ensure that schools and districts and states know what their responsibilities are, what the law is, and to really make sure that they are doing right on behalf of kids. And so this was a Prospective Initiative conducting audits and also conducting a lot of pro active informational sessions to ensure that schools know what they should be doing or not doing. And some of it as i hear is a lack of reporting. Is there any enforcement motorcyclenism . Mechanism . Say youve been doing the education and a lot of them should know by now what the rules are around this. What type of Enforcement Mechanisms do you have or do you not have any and what should we be doing to make sure schools are adhering . Sec. Devos where there are infringements on students rights and a request for investigation, we are investigating. And i think thats where the important piece comes on the followup. But we think and we hope that again proactively taking this initiative and bringing more light to this subject is going to bring about laudable results in terms of reporting and in terms of actual activity and action. Thank you. One of the things i hear a lot about from educators at home in southwest washington is lack of resources to address Mental Health needs. This is probably the top issue i hear about. Its actually more i hear about the mental and Emotional Health of the students more than i hear about math achievement, reading achievement. This is its ground zero. These educators are doing everything they can but these kids are coming in with a whole set of challenges that generations before them seem to have navigated or navigated differently. Who knows . But these kids, a lot of them are in real distress. What is or can the department do to help . This is not in anybodys scope. This is not in our scope of practice, but this is the reality of where the kids are at right now. Sec. Devos a couple things i would say. First of all, i think our proposal to block grant to the states and then ultimately the local districts, all of these different programmatic funds would allow each district to the dress this issue in the way they prioritize. If this is indeed the most important issue for their most vulnerable students, that would allow them the flexibility to tap into more of those higher percentage of those resources than otherwise through the formula or through the programmatic approach. So they would be able to maybe hire like an inschool Mental Health counselor for example . Sec. Devos if thats what ive heard requests for that or sros. Some of our funds are flexible, some arent. If they use money they can use it for this or that . Sec. Devos thats why i think the block grant proposal is transformative in that way because it would allow for all of the uses of those programs. But for them to prioritize the dollars in a way thats really going to meet the needs of the most disadvantaged kids in their district. Is there an administrative savings . I think we send everybodys tax dollars back, and every headquarters skims off the top and sends back a lesser amount . Sec. Devos yes, i think ultimately there would be. And i think importantly that flexibility at the state and local level would really allow those closest to the students to target the resours in the ways that are going to be most meaningful with the kids they seek to serve. I would like to see the Department Support the running kids. I just wanted to say thank you for the increase and focus on career and Technical Education. We should not sell students down the river that you have to go to a four year liberal arts school and thats what success is. We all know that is not the only definition of success. I know a lot of people who are happy and fulfilled, have good living wage jobs with full benefits, able to provide for their families on a career and technical type of education. So thank you for the emphasis on that. Sec. Devos the president and myself and this administration are committed to advancing that and supporting multiple pathways for adult success. Thank you. Yield back. Congresswoman clark. Thank you, madam chair, and thank you, secretary devos for being with us today. I want to go back to a topic explored by my colleagues, congresswoman lee. Do you think that the disparity and discipline for preschoolers of color could indicate a racial bias . Sec. Devos i suppose it certainly could. And again, i think the bigger issue here is that we make sure that every child has the opportunity to pursue an education that is going to unlock and unleash their personal and fullest potential. Okay. Isnt it, however, the official policy now of the department of education that the cause of this disparate rates that we see of students of color is explained by the fact that these children are just inherently predisposed to misdebehave and disrupt the chas room more than white children . Isnt that your policy . Sec. Devos no. That is the conclusion of the research you cited in your School Safety report of 2019. Congress specifically asked you to strike all references to this report, which interestingly appeared in the journal of criminal justice. Your official response within this budget is that you stand by this report and its conclusions, isnt that right . Sec. Devos congresswoman, do you have a question about the budget . Because were here yes. Were here to talk about the budget . You sponned that quote, the department of education stands by this report that says children of color are just more inherently inclined to misbehave and that explains the disparat rates of discipline . Sec. Devos i do kno not know where that windfall. It is in your budget i cannot see any way to interpret this, because you went on and eliminated the Data Collection that could help us solve this problem. You do not see a problem because you have adopted the policy that this is a race based problem. Collection,the crdc the Data Collection is open for Public Comment now. They have not been concluded. Input, we would be happy undo would like you to what you put in your budget, strike this racist research and make sure it is Crystal Clear you do not buy into this theory that children of color are discipline because of who they are and that they come to school with disruptive tendencies. That is what you put in your official report. And your budget you say you stand by it. I want to give you a chance to correct the record. We have had some testy exchanges in the past, and in 2018 you agreed private and Religious Schools receiving federal funding would have to have nondiscrimination policies. But i think i browbeat you into that answer, is there any requirement that private and Religious Schools must have nondiscrimination policies under your efs Voucher Program . Sec. Devos the education freedom Scholarship Program is a tax credit. Budgetd not see in your is everys the reality student that would take advantage of an education freedom scholarship would be protected, their civil rights are protected, and that is true of students no matter where they are. You do not have that nondiscrimination requirement in your Budget Proposal. Sec. Devos the budget puzzle is part of treasurys budget. It is noteed, but there. In september you visited a Religious School in harrisburg, a private religious institution that is allowed to do what they do. A have policies that transgender children can be expelled or denied admission based on that status, and different tuition rates depending on the religion of the children. Ifquestion to you, pennsylvania adopted your Scholarship Program, your Voucher Program, would this school the eligible for federal funding with these policies in place . Correctos i need to you on the nature of education freedom scholarship proposal. It is a federal tax credit that would be the recipient can i finish . We are out of time. Sec. Devos i want to make sure you have full understanding of what the proposal is. , tax credits are federal funding. Sec. Devos they are not, they are voluntary contributions. Contributions to charitable organizations as designated we are out of time, and i will leave you with this. You said in your testimony you wanted to expand educational freedom for students. I certainly hope making these inherently discriminatory policies part of the department of education is not what you meant by that statement. Sec. Devos we do not discriminate against anyone at any time. I will follow up, thank you for being here. On these outlowup your questions. I was trying to calculate in my head, because for me, this is a program for wealthy people to get free private school. My understanding of a tax credit, if you will 10,000 in taxes, and under your scenario you pay 10,000 for private school, then you owe no taxes. Sec. Devos can i interject . That is absolutely a misunderstanding. The proposal is voluntary contributions from individuals or businesses to 501c3 scholarship granting organizations that would give scholarships to families as defined by the state that decides to participate. In most states where there are education Freedom School choice programs, they are geared and targeted to primarily low income families. Many times students with disabilities, and they are programs for students most vulnerable and disadvantaged. It would be individuals who choose to help other students and other families who voluntarily make those contributions. It is not a program for people of wealth. People of wealth already have choices. People of color already have choices. All of these policies are designated and targeted toward individuals and families who do not have that power. Who are applying discourse who are not working for them. I want to reclaim my time, is there anything in your proposal that requires nondiscrimination . Can somebody keep a gay student out . Can they discriminate on the basis of religion . School choice and education freedom, families and students voluntarily choose a place that works for them. They can choose to go to a school that only allows a certain religion or a certain gender or a certain race, is that correct . You. Nswer is yes, thank i answered it for you. I have another question. I think coming out soon is a new ix onn reference to title Sexual Harassment, is that rule going to be published soon . Sec. Devos i expect it will be soon, yes. There is a lot a concern from folks about what this will mean showse all the statistics there is a lot of Sexual Violence on campuses, and a lot of concern that your new rule will discourage victims from coming forward. Point i one particular want to ask you about and you can clarify it. I do not understand it, i read the rule. Under the proposed rule, alleged harassment must occur within the School Program or activity. My question is whether or not that would cover off campus frat houses, would it pertain to online Sexual Harassment . Sec. Devos because the rule is not finalized, i cannot comment on it. It would not be appropriate. Will ask a question and then another, it is not appropriate to comment because the rule is not final. Is the rule as you understand as it is proposed, is it going at aver a Sexual Assault frat house offcampus, or Online Harassment and bullying . Sec. Devos i cannot comment. Ok. My final question we read that japan is closing all of its schools because of the coronavirus. What plans are you making in regards to the coronavirus . Good question, i have convened a task force in the department and have asked my deputy secretary to head that task force to ensure we have our and everye policies plan in place. And we continue to work with the other agencies across government to ensure we are prepared to respond and react and do as we should. Thank you, i am happy to hear you are doing that, and i hope you will keep us informed. I yield back. I just need a moment. Thank you. The fullservice Community Schools before, i think they are so critical to bringing together social support, family and community engagement, Early Childhood development to help students and their families thrive. Yet you proposed eliminating programs k12 including Community Schools. We came together on a bipartisan basis in this congress to authorize the fullservice Community School program in 2015 because we know its value in the district. I would like to know, have you ever been to a fullservice Community School . Sec. Devos i have visited many schools, maybe one was termed that. If i could just say, it is inaccurate to say we propose eliminating these programs. We proposed rolling them up into a block grant, and i think your example of the school you cited and admire is exactly why we should consider the block grant proposal, it would allow schools and districts in your state to actually expand on those and target those resources in that direction, if that is the right answer for the students in that district or in that region. It would give a lot more flexibility to states and communities, not eliminating anything, but putting it into one big pool. Level that is at the it is, you are the appropriators and you will decide what level to fund, and the important thing is the policy here. Is to put proposal all of those programs together in one block grant that would then allow the most local level, closest to the students to target the resources to meet the needs of the kids most vulnerable in that School District in a way that will uniquely meet their needs. You are decreasing the amount of money in the pot, so you are making schools compete against dollars. R for these i am hoping as we go through the those we will increase dollars so we can sustain programs like this. I think you would be interested in visiting some of those schools, i would be happy to give you a tour up to westchester. At the School Program, your budget eliminates funding for Afterschool Programs. Sec. Devos no, it increases in the block grant. You are decreasing the pot of money sec. Devos putting it in a block grant to allow flexibility at the local School District level. If you are cutting the budget sec. Devos you are the appropriators, you decide what level to fund it. The important thing is the proposal, put them together in a block ramp and allow for states and local districts to make aresions on what programs most effective, and what will work best to meet the needs of the most vulnerable students in that district. Less money, i get it. Let me say this, and you probably know it. The amount of federal funds going to districts is about 10 . Sec. Devos it is less than 5 . About 9 of the budget. You are saying put these programs and a pot, decrease the funds, everything will be fine but i think that is where we have a disagreement. You say we are they appropriators, but you are secretary of education, your opinion is valued, and it disappoints me you would take these good programs and put them in a pot and decrease the dollars. We will move on. Did anyone ask this one . [laughter] sorry, there are a couple of hearings going on. Another Favorite Program of mine, maybe this is in the pot one but it is worth saying, in five College Students is a parent with a young child, accessing child care on campus can make all the difference. And the struggle to get good childcare is reality for a growing number of College Students. Not every College Campus i have to get to the question are you aware sec. Devos i am aware, and i know what our Budget Proposal has, but i know the health and Human Services budget contains the increased funding around childcare. This is a priority of the administration, and we believe those programs through hhs would definitely be able to meet the needs of the program you cited. The 3 out of time, but million cut you proposed to take place on programs like this would disappear. The locals have the major , and our work and money is invaluable to support their efforts. 38 million cut. Sec. Devos hhs has the bulk of the childcare proposal funds, and that is where the administration has put the priorities around childcare. , it is ae going back pretty green on the wall. We will take it into consideration. Thank you madam chairman, and thank you secretary devos. I am going to ask you a couple questions regarding the reduction in investment under your budget. I am concerned about the achievement gap as you are, and i do not agree with our approach to it. The achievement gap that you talk about exists in part because schools lack equitable discipline guidance in addition to other resources. Students of color are disproportionately targeted for discipline and cap out of school kept out of school. Lets talk about the discipline peace, this week a sixyearold girl in florida was arrested and taken from her school even though School Officials maintained they did not want the girl arrested. And for blacko, children. According to the civil rights 12a collection, black k whitets are four times as kids to receive out of School Suspensions. Lack students are twice as likely to be expelled from School Without Education Services compared to their white counterparts. This data is disconcerting because students expended ve expelled were three times more likely to be in contact with the juvenile Justice System in the next year. How do we reconcile this disparity with the percentage of population black students represent, yet the percentage of discipline, and given that you have rescinded the guidance intended to give the schools tools to break the school to prison pipeline i hope that is what is what it was intended . Or what are your plans what kind of resources do you envision providing through your requests to schools to address this issue . Sec. Devos thank you for that question, and you cited at the top your concern about the achievement gap, and i share that concern and have shared that concern for the three plus decades i have been working to change policy to free up children who have not been able to achieve because of being stuck in a school that does not work for them. You may have misstated when you said you do not agree with our approach, meaning your approach. I do not agree with your approach with continuing to do the same thing with more resources and expect a different result, that is why our proposal has suggested taking virtually all of the elementary and secondary Education Funding from the federal level and block granting it to the states, then they give to the local districts to allow for the greatest flexibility to directly address the needs of the students in that district and in that school. Includee me, did that alternatives to a public option . Sec. Devos no, this would be the funding from the federal government for all the elementary and secondary education programs, and it would be granted to the states under the title one formulation, so 90 plus percent of it going to local districts, but it would allow local districts the flexibility they do not have today, it would free up tons of inrs, 225 years of time complying with and writing would allow them to target resources directly to the kids who need it most. I agree teachers are required to do a lot of hip that takes time away from teaching. I want to talk to you about something that concerns me in the budget which i think is a president sf the values. Cut grams sec. Devos it does not, it takes them and put them into the block rent and allows flexibility at the state and local level. It is not eliminating them. It is putting more programs in one box with a limited amount of money and asking them to compete with one another. Sec. Devos no. They would not be competing, they are formula granted out. Program. O me about the i cannot hear you. We have proposed functions, and again coupled with the flexibility that the block grant for the other 29 programs would afford state and local districts if there is more desire to be spent in the area of what the programs are doing, it would allow more personalization for the students that are closest in each School District. Unanimous consent to enter testimony from students from the program that is so vitally important and is not getting the appropriate attention it should. In a bipartisan way there is an agreement putting information into record. We will do another round that is two minutes. If you have not seen video of this sixyearold child being put into handcuffs, pleading to at have handcuffs, that is visual of what my colleagues are talking about, what is happening to particularly africanamerican kids and kids of color in not be putsobbing to into handcuffs at six years old. , credit fortion independent schools, loss of accreditation in 2016, lack of compliance, standards below the department requirements. 018 you reinstated it it was in financial peril, not recognized by the council of Higher Education, uncovered by staff. Day, no what is the department doing to ensure students are not being duped by forprofit colleges accredited by an agency you reinstated . Will you consider reversing your decision . Was troubled by reading that piece as well, and have directed an investigation into what is happening. I was not happy to read that. We have an investigation launched, and we are on it. Thank you very much, we have just a little time here. Secretary, i had some questions on Charter Schools, i would like to submit them for the record. You made your position clear and your record is well known. I have concerns on what would happen to the money. The second area and i have enormous of the with you in terms of this student loan problem, and commend you for trying to think through. Ifferent ways i was not happy when we moved away from the Loan Guarantee approach. We kept this out of your bailiwick and settled you with an enormous problem. My earlier comments, i am not sure we have the power to do much here. It is an authorizing function for the most part. I am curious about what you are doing now to try to combat this . ,ou are doing Technology Things and if you would like to expand longerterm what you think the ideal solution would be, we put the federal government on the hook in a way i do not think we should have, and turn this into an extraordinary political issue that candidates kick around. I would like to get the department out of this crossfire. Mentioned, it i is a large and complex issue, and we spend a lot of time talking about the loans that students are taking out, not as much time challenging why the cost of Higher Education continues to skyrocket. Onre is a lot of theory that, but our Budget Proposal the suggest capping off amount graduate students can take out in Student Loans through the federal government, and capping the amount parents can take. We know there have been too many parents who have taken out loans greater than they are able to afford, and Social Security being garnished. Graduate students thank you very much. To my colleagues on the other side, let me say this to you and i appreciate your comments. Of us, our schools were segregated, we could not go to Public Schools. Got it . In 2017 we asked the secretary submit a report about the resegregation of Public Schools. That report has not been submitted. I cannot be nice when i ask about this. Blackxperience for our and brown students, and the role of the federal government in the desegregation of Public Schools. That am secretary, let me ask you about the budget as it relates to expanding pell grants. You said you supported, i cannot find in your budget request any line item for that. Have you estimated how much it would cost and you plan to request funding . Sec. Devos we have made the request to have congress consider a permanent expansion because it is not a program other than a pilot through the department currently. There is not a specific piece of budgetary guidance to suggest with it. What do we need to do to get you to submit a line item report . Sec. Devos Congress Needs to act and make Second Chance pell a program. We have to authorize it . Sec. Devos currently it is an Experimental Program through our authorities in that department. Increaseudget does not funding fo except for those in opportunity zones which leaves out 50 . President has touted his support. Sec. Devos i would say that is definitely indication of continued support for the ortant role they play but the level of funding for the is ander of the program indication of the priority that we have placed on that. Million for other minority serving institutions for stem related programs in opportunity zones, which are across the country in urban areas. Thank you. Thank you madam secretary. Tohout objection i move include the may 2019 Harvard Kennedy school poll into the record. Up something about the education freedom scholarships. When i write a check to my church every week, it is tax deductible. My church is using it for something religious associated, for having a tax aeference for someone who has religious bent is not a new concept. Sec. Devos that is correct. Lets talk about the may 2019 poll that looked at tax credits, and vouchers for low income students. 49 , all people they sampled approve it, but the most , and theng thing reason why democrats approval for low income vouchers. Hispanic democrats, 67 . The fact of the matter is that these parents, the people who actually are most concerned childrens education outcome want to income vouchers. Through the soft bigotry of low expect asians, we will not provided because we know better. To quote a candidate that is now the president , i have a suspicion that a lot of those parents are asking themselves the question, what do i have to lose . I yield back. Quick thank you, madam chairman. Ill try to i will try to do that. The difficulty is i am a problem product of Public Schools. Forold my moms house 115,000. People like me got our of publicy because education. Honestly, i take it very personally. . May i commented that i am also very passionate about Public Schools. I am passionate about all schools. All schools that serve kids and our good fits for kids. If i could ask that question. I have less than two minutes. Those tax dollars that we lost that have gone to these failed Charter Schools, the ones that have not opened or failed. That report has been totally debunked. It is riddled with inaccuracy. This is the frustration when i ask a question. Dont answer a different one. It is 1. 5 of the total numbers number of schools that did not open. I will be happy to get back with you. I will be happy to look into that further and get back with you on the disposition. Thank you very much. For thelowup forprofit colleges. I know you got rid of the program that was in the Obama Administration that protected. Tudents sue the government. My question is what are we doing to collect those payments . Are we still collecting payments from defrauded students . Has filedtudent that a bro a defense claim has put in at that time. When i got my job, there was no process and i said it is going to take a while to figure out the process. Is make sure these students are not incurring any more interest, are not having to pay anymore more on their Student Loans as long as their claims are in process. That has been the case on all of those claims that are not yet closed. We have been stymied at a couple of steps along the way by procedural rulings in court. We are still waiting for the on a district to rule methodology. Nothing pains me more than not being able to resolve those completely. Thank you madam secretary for being here. I want to talk to you about the block grants. I think that is an important concept. It is hard to get our hands around it. If i understand what you are are taking some of the federally mandated spending programs, youre consolidating into a flexible spending program, the state and local School Districts will be able to have the ability to determine if one local community said they wanted to focus on School Safety, they could use those funds for that. Correct. If one said we think career and College Counseling should be part of it, they can use it for that. Correct. Mental health counselors, you could use it for these needs that are identified on the ground where people are saying this is what our School District needs. Thesealling that, most of created to help the most disadvantaged students. I go back to my Opening Statement where i said a trillion dollars spent over the last 40 years to close the achievement gap has not closed one bit, it has opened for many kids at the low end of the spectrum. This do something different. Lets allow for that flexibility to translate down to the local thoseso they can target dollars where the students needed most. In terms of the dollar amount, i know that when we are talking budgets, people are upset about different spending levels. Ultimately, your point is congress will determine what spending level is in that. Yes. The administration has advanced this Budget Proposal. The policy part about the block grant is a really important piece to consider. Thank you very much. You, madam chair. Thank you madam chair. To follow up, your last statement to me is we do not discriminate against children. Is that correct . We have pulled all of the laws of this land nds. We are operating on a nondiscrimination basis. I think that is the appropriate role for you to take. On the fy will resend 21 budget request where you said that racist research. I would look forward to you reversing course on that position in your budget. We can have a long discussion about tax credits and treasury. I understand tax credits and you and i disagree. The tax credits are federal funding. What will you, the secretary of education who just said you will not allow children to be discriminated by race, religion, transgender status, sexual orientation, will you guarantee to the children of this country programever funded this that is in your budget that is 5 billion of taxpayer money, when it is rolled out in states, will you guarantee that every Single School will have a Nondiscrimination Policy in order to qualify for that . Is notresswoman, this proposed to be a federal program. This is proposed to be a federal tax credit. Do you guarantee . Let me finish. The legislation is specifically for states to create programs that are going to meet the needs of the most vulnerable and needy students. We are right back to where we started. Right back to the reality of the fact that this program is to be implemented and designed at the state level, voluntarily contributed to by federal taxpayers. I will be clear that you have corrected the record when you said you as secretary of education would ensure that this program would only go to schools nondiscrimination policies, that is no longer your stance . This is a states choice . You will not do that as secretary of education . May i suggested that you are mixing up and not staying clear on the purpose of the program . I am. You said you would stand up for kids. It is appalling. You really should resign. Congresswoman herrera butler. I would love to have more the freedomn on opportunity choice program. I want to make sure it is on the record very clearly, whether it is a new program, federal funding and whether there are strings attached. Actually, whether by somehow i recognize the treasury program, is there some way that this is not under the laws of the land . Or civil rights Constitutional Rights somehow abridged . Let me respond to that directly. Civil rights are not abridged in any way. This is not a new program to be administered at the federal level. Vehicle to effectively and efficiently get voluntary contributions directly to scholarship granting organizations as decided by states that choose to participate. With the idea that they will turn around and create one or more programs that are going to specifically address the needs k12 students and their state. No more giving money to planned parenthood. Church, that is taxexempt. This is no more federal funding than any money. Churches are not federally funded. Correct. I think there is a big divide there. The other thing i wanted to ask about is if there are opportunities in the department with regard to encouraging students to participate in dual credit programs like running start . That is one way i think we will help them with their college costs. Proposal is to dramatically increase funding for Technical Education. I think this comes at a time when states have been writing their plans are and are getting ready to implement it. Thatited a lot of schools have fledgling dual enrollment programs. Many want to have many more and expand dramatically. I expect that will continue to be a growing reality. Certainly those places that are being forward leaning and recognizing the opportunities for their students are going to get that right. Thank you. I will followup on ms. Clarks question. Compared colleagues the tax credit to a tax deduction. It is a big difference. A tax credit is when you take a certain percentage of what ul and instead of paying into the federal government, you are giving it to a private school. You get to give it directly and efficiently to a private school. It is a 501 c3. It is a nonprofit scholarship granting organization. A state that chooses to participate the state of florida where i am from, they have been having this program. Not very successfully. An article where three banks that were contributing now pulled out theree they found that are 156 schools in florida that are discriminating against people who are lgbtq. We have a different philosophy. Mistake for you to come at are and cut 6 million Public Education and then at the same time, ask us or ask this congress to set up a program so corporation it is a or person, a total of 5 billion can instead of going to the federal government to fund taxes, they can put money into a private is to take institution to discriminate against people. Is education about kids . Is the rightation equalizer. Life is a great Public Education. I am very disappointed that you feigned ignorance about a dangerous policy on campus. I am very worried about that. We have not released the final rule and it would not be appropriate for me to comment. It is a guarantee that children are protected, there are opportunities. We have a responsibility to make that system work for all of the children. It concerns me. Even the arresting of a in schools without your questioning, that is happening. One other thing, anytime a federal government puts money into one of these School Districts, you can require that there be an underscore minasian program. You have that is your response ability. You dont seem to give one good hoot about Public Education. Every time we talk about Public Education, you talk about education. You talk about the alternative. Let me tell you. One of the reasons our children are not achieving is because we are not putting the resources where they need to be, and the Public School system. Until we can reconcile that, you have no right to no right to talk about improving the system. I go back. Can i comment on that . If you can wrap up your comments, i will wrap up and we will bring this hearing to a close. It has been another eventful day. I want to begin by thanking you. I want to thank you for the service you vendor to this country every day. I have known you for a long time. I did not know anyone who cares about young people getting an education. While we may have disagreements i have programs, you and a couple, it does not diminish one bit from the enormous service that you and your family have you given all families of all races and colors, every ethnicity, every background for many years. I consider your service as secretary to be exemplary. Second, i want to applaud you on and Technical Education initiative. I think it was a very wise investment. I particularly appreciate you taking the lead. We have a lot of students that would benefit from this kind of education that cant afford what are even very modest fees. Your willingness to look at the pell grant as an extension, we all want kids that want to get College Education to have that opportunity. I also recognize that the vast majority of young people will not go for for your college. Either they dont want to or that is not the right approach for them. I think that sometimes, we forget about them a lot. This proposal is ashley putting the focus on people that are too often forgotten. He ashley took things like the apprentice program. That was a good obama proposal and put more money into that. This has been very consistent theme. Toally, again, i want on anue to dialogue variety of programs. I would love to invite you sometime i was particularly pleased with your proposal on Second Chance. To Tulsa Community college and seen that program. Thank you for mentioning them. It will surprise, delight and throw them to no end. More importantly, it is part of our population that gets neglected and left behind, you putting a searchlight on it and lets put people back on the right track and help them make a living. It is a very good thing. Ist thing, i will commit to, will wrestle with the student loan program. I see it as a real issue. Glad you mentioned the cost of college as well. This is not just a matter of the federal government. We have a lot of private institutions and we need to think very carefully about how they counsel students, for they encourage them to do and frankly, the advice we give them as to what the appropriate level of debt should be. Finally, the administration frustrated me when i was chairman. I am sure it frustrates our chairman, the amount of resources that are getting put into this, my personal view is that we made a big mistake. We got out of the Loan Guarantee business and got we asked you to take on a mission that probably should not be your mission. Your thoughts as you grapple with this are very valuable. Thank you. You are always a great working partner. I appreciate the way that you manage our community. We occasionally have differences but we very seldom have deep disagreements about the path in front of us. I look forward to working with you as we craft this budget and the other budgets that are under our jurisdiction. I know that as always we will find a lot more Common Ground than we do differences. Cant commit to voting for your first bill. But we can come to an agreement in conference. I think we can do it again. I want to thank the gentleman. This has been a positive working experience. For your french if i am deeply grateful. It is that friendship that allows us to get the business of the country done. That is why we are all here. I just want to say one thing, madam secretary. A couple of comments that my it is ins have made, regards to this notion that states are taking public money in whatever form and they discriminate that that would be up to the state. You may not want to take on that issue. We all believe you have that authority. But we are not going to stand by you discriminate against our children in terms of proceeded to get an education. I want to take time to knowledge the continued struggles of children in puerto rico. They have been dealing with trying to recover from earthquakes and all kinds of disasters. Still from hurricane maria. I have been told and we will look into this, kids are going to school i dont know if you have been to the island but i would ask you to do that and see these conditions. I would urge the administration to support the house up a mental bill. Maria, children were afraid to school because if they want to school, they were fearful that when they went home, their parents would not be there. We are dealing with education and we are dealing with Mental Health issues regarding these children. Moraleve we all have a responsibility in this area. Thatly, let me just say there has been a lot of cussion about propose i propose that you illuminate this program. Eliminate federal burdens that have been inhibiting innovation. I am concerned, madam secretary that you confuse the Central Protection for students all across the formula programs. Urgent charges to address the provide effective language instruction program. Parents, family, engagement. From the testimony, it appears that you look at the elementary and secretary education act and of formulaawful grants that place burdens on the state. However, i looked at the Elementary Education act and i see a lawful of vital protection for the most vulnerable students in our nations care. English learners, homeless children, migrant children, children in the juvenile Justice System and the list goes on. We need to be clear, the department you are the department, you should be straight with the parent educators. Let them know which one of the vital protections and safeguards are going to be rolled back. Thel comment is Ranking Member mentioned this. You defend the budget. You defend cuts and question the effectiveness of federal investment in Public Education. This year, defending the we canl to eliminate have all of the words possible but we eliminate 41 programs. You talked about the 2020 request if your request included cuts to the Special Olympics. The long in the short of it, the Special Olympics was not cut this time around. Examine the cuts. What the department and what the administration are doing with regard to the cuts. T is not so much this is where i come down. I am tired of just saying 40 million and a cut here. That is about the consequences. It is about what the effect of those cuts are. Our children. Both have to be of thatnding yourtunity to achieve dreams and your aspirations through education. They are being curtailed. In particular, for the most vulnerable of our kids. In high poverty areas that wont get the kind of attention that they need. I do believe it is a morals possibility. Utilize all the power of the federali do believe government e with these kids and his students. My hope is that we will come bill in the a education area that will meet their needs and that we can do that on a bipartisan basis. I thank you for being here. Thank you for the work that you do. The hearing is concluded. [indistinct conversation] washington journal, live every day for news and policy issues that impact you. Up this morning we will talk about campaign 2020 with a reporter from the washington post. A discussant on the u. S. And discussiononse a on the u. S. And Global Response to the coronavirus. Watch washington journal live at 7 00 eastern this morning. Next, Pete Buttigieg announces he is suspending his es