Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing On U.S.-Mexico Security Cooperation 20240713

Prize if you did not write a book would you . Easterny night at 8 00 on cspans q1 day. President trump is holding a Border Security event today. We are planning coverage and will have it for two later on cspan. We are going to show you this weeks Foreign Affairs subcommittee hearing with state department at officials on a Security Assistance to mexico. Members question the officials on how the u. S. Is working with the Mexican Government to combat trafficking by cartels. Humanitarian crises in the country and handling around cases of american citizens being killed in mexico. We are going to get started. The reason for the early hearing is we have votes and people go back to the district today. I want to make sure i got this hearing in. I will begin. Other members will be walking in as the hearing is progressing. Order. Aring will come to assessing u. S. Security assistance to mexico. We focus on evaluating the extent to which u. S. Assistance has been effective in has been effective in strengthening mexicos Justice Sectors combating crime and protecting human rights. Without objection, all numbers may have five days to to submit questions and materials for the record. Subject to limitation and the rules, i will make an Opening Statement and turn it over to the Ranking Member for his Opening Statement. Before i open with my statement, i want to thank everybody here that is early. It is miserable outside and i want to thank the witnesses for being here. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for the witnesses who are here today. In reading the news of the last few weeks, the shocking headlines from mexico have been impossible to escape. As young, i saw kids as six years old arming themselves to defend their families in a rural part of the state. As cartels have soughtas cartelt control over the area, the murder rate has doubled and the community has nearly shut down. Kids who should be in school are instead learning how to fire shotguns and ambush armored vehicles. Believemer teacher, i nothing is more sacred than the investment we make in our childrens future. It broke my heart to think that if these kids are being deprived of their right to learn and grow , free of the violence and fear. Happeningat what is is a microcosm of the broader trends we are seeing across mexico. Mexicos homicide rate has reached its highest level in decades. Targeted our tax against journalists, human rights defenders, and local Public Officials have continued at a rate higher than almost anywhere in the world. Report from the International Federation for journalists found that mexico is the deadliest country in the world for journalists. Journalists killings in 2019, 10 were in mexico. Murders, likets most homicides in mexico, are never solved. Robust u. S. Ated for assistance to help mexico strengthen its democratic institution, combat corruption, defend human rights, and improve security. I believe that mexico and the United States have a shared responsibility to reduce Violent Crimes and improve quality of life for those living on both sides of our border. The United States must enact stricter gun laws, dedicate more resources to combating money anddering by the cartels increase investment in programs to reduce domestic demand for Illegal Drugs. A sincerepect commitment on the mexican side to reduce this violence. I appreciate the efforts that mexicos Security Forces are making, but they are being outgunned by these brazen at well resourced cartels. Society released a 953 policeing that officers had been murdered in mexico in just the past two years. I admire those courageous individuals who are putting their lives on the line. That substantial political commitment is needed to address the underlying andlem of impunity corruption, which are perpetuating the violence in mexico. Now is the time for the u. S. Government to look critically at our programs to determine what not. Rking and what is im eager to hear from the state department about our strategy and how congress can measure tangible progress on the initiatives. I hope that the Trump Administration is prioritizing security and our engagement with mexico, rather than pressuring mexico to use the National Guard to prevent desperate people from migrating. I know many of my colleagues share my frustration that we have not made more progress under the initiative. I hope this hearing will help us develop a clearer sense of what is next, what steps we should take. I look forward to working with my colleagues and the executive branch on a bipartisan basis to explore solutions to these difficult challenges. Thank you and i turn it over to the Ranking Member for his Opening Statement. A thank you for holding second hearing to follow up on this important and timely issue regarding the security situation in mexico. The relation with mexico is among the most important relationships for the United States. ,e are linked by geography proximity, as well as economic, historical, and cultural ties. The benton mexico impact our country. Recent years have brought violence, criminality, and a deteriorating security condition and mexico, which has been driven by the drug cartels. We cannot ignore the fact that the paper had the article about children. Cooperation is a critical component of our relationship and it is important that we review security conditions in our assistance programs to identify what has been effective at what has been ineffective in assisting the country to address its challenges. I am concerned that recent events have resulted in the deaths of nine u. S. Citizens, including three children, at the hands of drug cartels. These advents reflect the security challenges which mexico faces and a need for the United States and mexico to take steps together to address them. Through intimidation, corruption, and violence, the mexican people are terrorized daily. The administration is taking steps to have a National Guard take the lead on security. This force is supported immigration enforcement. Much work remains to properly train and equip them and questions remain about other steps of the Mexican Government can take to address the security challenges. Despite the efforts of previous administrations to combat the cartels and address security, 2019 saw a 30 increase in mexicos homicide rate. Much of which was driven by drugrelated crimes. The cartels expanded their drug trade to supply the surgeon u. S. Demand for methamphetamine, heroin, and opioids. I suggest anyone interested in this topic read the book dream land about the drug gangs. We must also acknowledge the flow of illegal weapons from the United States to mexico. Especially assault weapons and highpowered weapons which contribute to the violence along with the corruption, impunity, and lack of rule of law. States007, the united has provided 3 billion in Security Assistance to mexico. Mexico has also contributed more. Through 2018, Security Assistance has focused on the rule of law, anticorruption, and human rights. The Top Administration has added focus on attacking the financing of the cartels and combating the trade of opioid and synthetic drugs, which is a positive step. Yet the United States and mexico must continue to Work Together to improve security infrastructure and ensure Regional Security priorities are addressed. It is critical that the Mexican Government communicate to us what they are doing to address the problem and present a Security Strategy that assistance can support. The United States should explore ways to modernize the security continuee provided and intelligence hearings, and provision of technology and equipment. We should also review our coordination on the border about security where we can support mexicos efforts to carry out inspections and screenings. The security relationship has come a long way, but we must continue to build our relationship on a foundation of mutual trust and cooperation. This is a joint responsibility and serves the interests of both countries. Chairman, and officers for being here today. I look forward to hearing the testimony. Thank you very much Ranking Member rooney. Thank you very much Ranking Member. I will now introduce mr. Hugo rodrigues was a the deputy secretary of state who served career foreign as a Service Officer who most recently served as deputy chief and previously served at the us embassy and later as missions acting missions counselor for Foreign Affairs. We welcome you to the hearing. That really hear from the assistant secretary of state and bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement affairs. In his current role he oversees the office of anticrime programs and western hemisphere programs. He began his work with the i and l in 2011 as Deputy Director of initiative and mix custody and has served in ecuador and argentina. Mr. Glenn, thank you for joining us. Finally we will hear from ms. The barbara feinstein, the minister insistant her for the earth bro in latin america and the caribbean and that u. S. Aji program in mexico, Central America and the caribbean. Career member of the Senior Executive service, she was previously Deputy Assistant administrator for legislative and public affairs, and served as deputy chief of staff to administrator reggie shaw. Shah. And people minister eight or to alonzo and chief administrator to alonzo full him. Your statements will be made as part of the record. Mr. Rodriguez, we recognize you first for your testimony. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member rooney, distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for appear beforey to you today to discuss u. S. Bilateral security with mexico. I will think the u. S. Congress and this committee for its bipartisan strong support of the usmexico relationship in general merida and the and the Merida Initiative in particular. While the bilateral agenda in mexico covers a wide range of issues with commercial relationships and educational exchanges and efforts to create partnership Security Cooperation is only been a central element to be central partners in confronting the Transnational Criminal Organizations operating on both sides of usmexico border. These have engaged in unprecedented levels of violence unprecedented levels of violence and pose a fundamental challenge to mexico and its people also a major threat to the United States. We much take a compress approach to these tcos including the , targeting of their Business Model from production and trafficking of illicit drugs to finances of illicit revenue. This is critical to safety of all citizens the necessity of cooperation has made it clear with our horrific murders of nine citizens in sonora. And the failed operation october 2019 to attempt interest. These are in addition to the lives of Security Forces that continue to be los. T the trumpet ministration is committed to work with mexico to combat these organizations, u. S. Customs and Border Protection administration or perez and the acting secretary of state assistant sec. Of state for the joint have acted efforts and to increase collaboration more effectively for this threat. Transnational criminal organizations that traffic methamphetamine, fentanyl, colom bian cocaine to the United States to address these and the related threats United States and mexico partner through the Merida Initiative to improve security reduce drug production and enhance criminal prosecution and to build Public Confidence in the Justice Sector, reduce improve Border Security, reduce the migration flow to promote greater respect for human rights. U. S. Mexico secured corporation has been expanding since the merida was launched in 2008 and is based on the recognition and commitment to country shares responsibility for transnational for combating Transnational Criminal Networks from the crime and corruption generated. Initiative is founded on Mutual Respect reflecting the tremendous benefits derived from collaboration. Us assistance provided crucial support to the government in its efforts to build to capacity while enhancing cooperation between us and Mexican Governments with assistance and Technical Assistance, equipment and training also with greater cooperation between Law Enforcement agencies prosecutors and judges as they expand the shared capacity making the commitment to shock criminals and monday. Madedent Lopez Obrador has goal of Security Policy in his a key pledge to fight corruption advance efforts with the security challenges to develop a new bilateral structure mexico city High Level Working Group to under the umbrella of the hfs wg, we have jointly developed groups to tackle issues of the highest importance focus on drug policy, migration illicit finance cybersecurity arm Services Emergency response and Justice Sector and arms trafficking. Through these groups we identify priorities and specific actions to have progress in each area. For example to increase the joint efforts to increase drug interdiction and we also working to reduce the number of listed firearms, weapons and the ammunitions for crossing into the border. The continued threat by Transnational Criminal Organizations requires our continual support in our bilateral cooperation that must continue in the Merida Initiative provides a framework for the partnership to benefit americans and mexicans i will be happy to answer any questions that you have. Mr. Glenn we will now hear , your testimony. Chairman serious, Ranking Member rooney, distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss our efforts with mexico the mission of the department of States Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement affairs is to keep americans safe by countering crime and Illegal Drugs and instability abroad. We provided assistance for the last 12 years under the Merida Initiative to build mexican interdiction Law Enforcement and prosecutorial capacity. Our assistance has two principal purposes first is to stop illicit drugs before they reach the United States and to improve mexican capacity to demand each component of Transnational Criminal Organizations Business Model, from Drug Trafficking to illicit proceeds and hold , accountable for their crimes. Despite the news drug overdoses are falling for the first time in 20 years more than 67000 americans died in 2018 many of which have come from mexico it is the source of the most heroin and methamphetamine consumed in the United States and is a major transit zone for cocaine and synthetic opioids like fentanyl. Meanwhile they face their own epidemic with the homicide rate a record high of 29 per 1000. In 2019. Impunity is high and public trust in police is low. Organized crime erodes through rose institutions through corruption. Meanwhile the Mexican Government , continues to consolidate with major growing pains in the face of these challenges the Merida Initiative has better positions the u. S. Mexico cooperative to tackle corruption and security to build trust between us and mexican Law Enforcement. I and l has learned adapted the and programs to meet the changing environment tackle those through the us and ministration to prioritize sustainability and measurable impact. Where there is sustained political will we have seen investments bear fruit. One example is more than 400 canines donated since 2011 have helped interdict 23 tons of narcotics including fentanyl 56000 guns and millions of dollars of smuggled cash we have since expanded the canine program to state police and corrections partners. The next step is working closely with mexico with a Strategic Plan for the deployment of canines to targeted locations to , increase seizures and save more lives. We have learned no amount of equipment or training can reduce impunity with sustainable improvements. This requires continued political will and resources to tackle todays immediate problems while laying the foundation for the enduring culture of lawfulness and accountability. We are under no illusion we have substantially reduced the number of drugs entering the United States or the level of violence in mexico. We have a long road ahead when yet u. S. Investments until embraced in mexico can yell the permits over time. We seek opportunities to make the greatest impact while but getting risk and ensuring sustainability. On the campaign trail and through his first year in office, mexican president Lopez Obrador has repeatedly vowed to take a met transnational organizations by combating illicit finance, drugs, arms trafficking. With mexicos commitment you have an opportunity to tackle that. Mexican will must be deployed and they will only make a measurable difference if they are employed in a strategic manager and with reason example bowls for memento. Assistance is only effective when tailored to complement goes own strategic efforts. I and l continues our important work in mexico at a dickel time that calls for urgency. I will be the first to acknowledge that current statistics make it hard to argue we are making headway. Nonetheless, the sobering numbers are exactly why we must continue to work closely with mexico. We engage at every level to enter programs are maxed with committed partners and Mexican Government. We encourage mexico to take a strategic approach to our shared challenges. And we will continue to do so for the enduring and significant change we seek requires nothing less. I think you i look forward to and your questions. Look forward to your questions. Thank you. Ms. Feinstein . Ranking member rooney and members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to discuss the work of usaid under the Merida Initiative. Since 2008 usaid has partnered with the department of state and other agencies to address the crime and justice and corruption challenges that undermine mexicos stability and threaten our mutual security and prosperity. Initiativeerida usaid works to strengthen , institutions and address impunity protect human rights reduce crime and violence and build transparency. Undoubtedly as you and my colleagues have clearly articulated the challenges before us are daunting. That is why usaid is clear eyed and laser focused on those areas what we have credible partners willing to work with us with the necessary political will to enact systemic change. As outlined in my written testimony we are seeing tangible belts in each of the areas in which we work, results that we will continue to press federal state and local governments to replicate. Support theaw we Mexican Government to carry out a Seismic Shift with the presumption of guilt to a moving from the presumption of innocence. Working at the state level where the vast majority of crimes are tried we have demand driven support with investigators and attorneys to implement protocols and procedures to build more effective cases and secure prosecutions. This is a longterm endeavor but we are seeing progress. Andhe states of chihuahua, our worknd 2 others, has helped to increase prosecutions of felony crimes by 400 to over 700 percent. In a similar set of states, our support to specialized homicide units increasing the indictments for homicides by 47 . This provides evidence of what can be done when sufficient political will and resources and capacity are marshaled to the shared outcomes. Set of the systems we are putting in place at state levels are the foundations on which the entire Justice System. Will grow and function. Focusing our programs under merida in 13 specific states were we seek promise and we are applying that to crime and violence prevention. We have purposely shifted our resources to support state level anticorruption prosecutors and Civil Society and we see tangible results as well usaid supports the special prosecutor for anticorruption and a 67 percent increase in our support number of investigations closed. Our support lead to charges filed in connection to 10 committal organizations, a 400 increase of the baseline. With regard to crime and violence prevention, usaid has sharpened our two graphic focused. Where working intent of the government of mexicos parity cities for reducing violence where we see evidence of political well, a pledge to invest their own resources, and a commitment to using data and evidence to inform crime and violence prevention. Here we are also seeing encouraging impact. Forrecidivism rate incarcerated or parolees usaid works with is 3 percent compared to the National Rate of 60 percent. Finally, with regard to human levelsand the untenable of violence perpetrated against turned less and others, usaid is partnering with the government of mexico to prevent and investigate and prosecute human Civil Society to while also strengthening Civil Society to hold the government accountable. Usaid supports the National Protection mechanism providing protective measures to journalists and human right 162 defenders. We are also helping to reduce the backlog of unsalted disappearances and to bring closure to criminal cases. Usaid is sporting identifying remain the victims and to build forensic evidence. We are encouraged with the announcement of the extraordinary method of forensic identification to deal with the disappearance crisis and look forward to expanded cooperation. In conclusion against an extraordinarily challenging landscape we see the progress to be scaled up and replicated provided the play go well and sufficient resources exist to do so. Chairman, wrecking member, thank you for the invitation to testify. I look forward to your questions. Thank you and we will turn to questions. I will stop asking. As i mentioned in my opening remarks i was taken aback to , read that children are forming armed groups to defend the. Ommunity in guerrero ms. Feinstein, mr. Rodriguez, mr. Glenn, can you provide examples of us programs that to reduceeffective violence and we can the cartels at the local level and the Rural Communities . So in terms of Merida Initiative programs in terms of Rural Communities to focus on the ability of police to do their jobs. At the federal and state level. We have generally avoided local police for various reasons. The professionalization of the police is essential to take them from no or very little support. At Academy Training at the beginning, to now more professionalized policing. It ensures that they at least at the beginning have that kind of support and knowhow. To do their jobs. Obviously there is a lot more to do and that transition along federal police turning into a National Guard, along with pieces of both the marines and the army, isnt it is going to be key that they take on that training and supply into those regions. As we understand the purpose of the National Guard, it is to get out into the rural areas and help secure those communities that desperately seek that peace and stability. Ms. Feinstein . From usaid perspective as i , mentioned in my testimony to targeting municipalities that focus on have the highest level of violence including the ones that the government of mexico has targeted. Our approach is to look at where we have partners that are willing to invest their own resources and where we see the political will and with the crime and violence prevention so in certain municipalities it is a model called civic justice, similar to Community Courts in the United States, where we will look at misdemeanors for example. For youth committing these crimes we know from evidence that can be escalated and lead that to more sophisticated levels of crimes. If we can address that to build confidence in the system and build social fabric between the community, local Law Enforcement and the municipal government and Justice System to pave a foundation for a stronger rule of law at the local level. We are also not working and role areas. Addition, we are working with youth who are already in conflict with the law. Those are who have been youth imprisoned and or on parole. Asough our techniques such cognitive behavioral therapy, family counseling, working with youth before the exit prison to have a more successful and integration in society, we are seeing striking lower levels of recidivism. Around 2 compared with the 60 national average. Thank you. Would you like to add something mr. Rodriguez . I will defer to my colleagues who can speak more knowledgeably to the programs themselves, sir. Year, 21 human rights defenders and 10 journalists were killed. In 2012 the Mexican Government protecta mechanism to human rights defenders and journalists. 2017, thosegust, beneficiaries have been murdered. What needs to be done from the killing of journalists and human rights offenders to be investigated and prosecuted. Mr. Rodriguez . Thank you. Mr. Chairman you point to one of crises we believe faces mexico. The standards of human rights, as well as protection of journalists. This is something we have raised frequently with the government of mexico. My belief is they share that concern. To rich and barbara about the programs we have in place that are helping to strengthen those efforts. But i would say that both for us and the government of mexico, this is a priority. We have seen them take steps to address the protection of journalists and human rights in general. Mr. Glenn . I will defer to barbara on the specifics, on programs that specifically focus on journalists and human rights offenders. In general the efforts with the state and federal level attorney generals and the investigative branches of Law Enforcement to increase their ability and to collect forensic evidence so they can produce prosecution. That does not prevent the aggression against journalists but when it does happen it ensures that the Mexican Government can get justice. Briefly i would add from usaid perspective and to provide Technical Assistance to the National Protection mechanism that provides protective measures, from panic buttons to Residential Security upgrades to protection teams, for journalists. And we are connecting journalists to that mechanism that i can take advantage of the services as they exist. In addition on a more structural and fundamental level, we supervise support to the special Prosecutors Office for crimes against freedom of expression, so they can strengthen protocols and strengthen investigations to go after the perpetrators who are so viciously going after journalists. Then we provide direct support to journalists in terms of assistance with agile security, how they can protect themselves online and methods they can take to be more secure. Thank you. Congressman renee . Rooney. Thank you. Ms. Uld like to start with feinstein, to basic questions. Can you give more specific how aig programs have evolved under the Merida Initiative . And and our participation versus mexicos . And what judicial reforms do we need to execute to increase convictions and prevent Legal Proceedings of the Cartel Members . Thank you. In terms of the evolution come at the beginning of the Merida Initiative, mexico has embarked on a Seismic Shift to transform the guilt from dust transform from a presumption of guilt to presumption of innocence. While all of that has been on paper and has worked very hard with the Mexican Government to try to ensure implementing legislation has been in place to in each of the states to carry out that reform because now the laws on the books because of that cultural change required to get all individual actors in the system, including those who are part of the old system, to go from where youre judges the same as your prosecutor, to a system where you have to make the tough decisions about which cases youre going to prioritize, and then build this case and work on forensics and try to build the strongest evidence that you can. To achieve those convictions. The issue is structural and systemic not the judicial reforms needed at this obviously point. There could be tweaks that it is reform of a system that requires working with the actors to Work Together. In terms of the evolution of our approach and what we have done differently in the rule of law space. In the beginning, our work was mostly focused on the state level to ensure the implanting legislation was in place. Was classroom training for all the last individuals judges and Defense Attorneys and prosecutors and investigators and we have realized that classroom training was helpful but not enough. We needed to have targeted and provide targeted assistance to bring the actors together. In terms of the increases in prosecutions, were the result of a deliberate effort to bring all of those around the table theres a tradition with the judicial system one part sends a letter to the other part than one month later they would respond instead of picking up the telephone. Or being colocated. For example, prosecutors and investigators, to build more effective cases and move them through the system. One thing, as i said, has been moving from that classroom training to handson Technical Assistance. Within the class why med violence space, we had an evolution where in the beginning there might have been an idea of lets go to the violent areas and provide an opportunity to underprivileged communities and that will probably reduce violence. The evidence shows that is not a successful approach. Instead you need to target more effectively who are the individuals most likely to be perpetrators of crimes. Or victims of crime. Consider those are at risk communities. Actually look at the interventions that work most effectively. That might be cognitive behavioral therapy. Familybased counseling, a variety of mechanisms. Bringing the parts together. That is what we are doing. That is where we see results. On the municipal model we are splayed to see the government of mexico has taken the civic intice model we piloted and theynd morelia have scaled that up to different parts of the country. How has that recidivism rate in affected . With at risk youth, we work with youth in prison and likely to be released in the next five years. We will work with them to give the kind of training, life skills and once they come out, the Vocational Education to be integrated into society. We are seeing the recidivism rates over 3 compared to the 60 National Rate. Er 3 compar National Rate. One last thing that is the contribution of the United States versu of the United States versus what is the contribution mexico under the agreement . On the local level on a , regular basis and annual basis its around 40 million about 37 to 40 million per year and i know local security contributions on the average of about 400 million. Thank you. 400 million. We want to see a successful most of the congress voted in favor of usmca and see mexico as a Good Neighbor fellow partner and a fellow partner in trade. However there are problems. Mr. Glenn, you said i believe , the current statistics make it hard to say we are making headway. So my question question should we shift our approach or strategy under the Merida Initiative . Absolutely. And we are. We have learned from the 12 years of experience that we have, we also have a new Mexican Administration focusing on different areas and we will go along as far as we can to support those efforts of the current Mexican Administration. I think the focus on going after the illicit finance crowd largercit finance and a greater more focused way will be a major shift that will give us the kind of results that we seek. Focus on arms trafficking and helping the government at least from our end helping the government of mexico position equipment weve donated previously so they can protect their border and scan for guns and money coming south. So, shifting those kind of resources into that kind of focus can help change the way that we focus the merida resources we have. Initiative one of the concerns i have is one of the shifts we have seen is the creation of this National Guard where i believe 25,000 of them now are being used to prevent Central American migration. That concerns me. I thought they were supposed were supposed to be out there interdicting drugs and doing all these other things against the narco traffickers not against central migrants. Central american migrants. I also want to ask about the the Migrant Protection Program or we normally call for remain in mexico. 59,000 have been returned to mexico and that is as of december 31, 2019. There are at least public reports that 815 of these have become victims of Violent Crimes such as rape, kidnapping and torture after being returned. So it doesnt seem to me that its very safe to be returned. When we see the statistics why , are we continuing this . Mr. Rodriguez . You raise an excellent point. The levels of violence in mexico are of great concern as is the the entire route of the journey violence migrants face along and one of our efforts has been to share responsibility and look for partners to help us in addressing the irregular migration and hope to build capacity particularly in Central America at this point were offering asylum and support closer to the home and the point of departure to these migrants. So they do not have to undertake both the dangerous journey into and the dangerous conditions in mexico. Hasgovernment of mexico owned the concerns we have violence,levels of particularly in the Northern Tier of mexico. They have committed to us to provide the same protections to the migrants as they did to the citizens that are coming into the area as well. Two u. S. Citizens into the area as well. That is my point. Statistics do not prove out it is safer their own citizens. Island in san diego one of the sally fist cities in the united intes in sandy i live san diego, one of the safest cities in the United States. But across the border in tijuana, they visited experience incredible levels of violence. If theyre going to provide return as safe as their own citizens, it is not safe. That is the point. I agree the level of violence is of tremendous concern and the government of mexico shares that concern. This is a largescale problem. We have worked merida through the merida as we can. My understanding is the government of mexico understands the problem and is focused on it. I am not sure about this hugs thing either. The new president s as hugs and set bullets and im not sure that is going to work. Thank you, congressman. Thank you. I appreciate yall being here. I want to thank you for the work that your agencies do. I know you do it with good intention. And you put forth everything and the teams with you. But here in congress i hear the same thing over and over, good governance, where working on rule of law. Going after, increasing the judicial system and all that. But yet we are not seeing it. Mr. Glenn, you brought that up. Nohink you said, under illusion we have decreased the Drug Trafficking and flow, i think that is what you said. We know that. We know there is more drugs coming in. I want to look i like to look at , things what is the solution and how do we change this. Ms. Feinstein, you are talking about there was a 3 recidivism. Versus the 60 in the programs. How long have you tracked that that within a year or a fiveyear. Or a tenure. And do they stay reformed and not go back into the illicit activities . I can get you the specifics on that. My understanding is that it is a multiyear effort that we are not just tracking people when they come out because that wouldnt be a good indication of whether recidivism is taking place. Know, that would be a skewed number and that is what we do not want reported. I do not know. Is the report out there that would say this is a 3 recidivism after sixmonth are five years . Absolutely. I can get that for you. If you could get that that would help us because that gives us a working that we can bolster. Youre also saying the 40 increase in convictions in i forget what area was, chihuahua or somewhere. You were saying the 40 increase in sentencing or conviction. What about the sentencing on the reform side of that or do they get pardoned or early release. Do we know what happens . Because you can convict them. But what happens after that, do you have any idea . Certainly. The specifics i was mentioning to the 47 , was our support specialized homicide units and that is in a series of states we can read to you or not but we have increased the number of indictments. That was indictments for homicides. The other to to stick was prosecution of felony crimes. In terms of prosecutions, that is a variety of ways that could be resolved. It could result in incarceration. Cut result in alternative dispute resolution, pleabargaining, variety of afferent methods. I think the challenge with the mexican judicial sector is that imr this new system, as sure you are aware, in any criminal Justice System, whether hours are and around the world criminal Justice Systems have , the capacity to process 10 of the crimes that are coming and so you have to make decisions about how you are going to prioritize. You could have a prosecutor that goes after the crimes and then deuces their rates. That is something we need to look at. And then to look at the most serious crimes. So taking these elements and bringing them together and asking what is it that would , make a difference to the community and people looking at mexico looking at serious crimes , like homicides, like home invasions, Armed Robbery etc. Not the easy ones. And then look forand for us, it is not assigned. Change issueral also mexico where people want to see folks behind bars and not look at plea bargaining and other issues. Alright. I appreciate it. Mr. Glenn, you you dont work are talking about you dont work with the local Law Enforcement , for obvious reasons. I want you to state what those obvious reasons are. I think it is recognized by the Mexican Government itself. The level of corruption at the local level is. And we know that. I just want that on the record. Because we have put so much money into these programs and yet, the results are not there. Id like to switch over to another question that gao report showed 70 of those by the mexican authorities come from america. What do we do, do we track that to find out who they came from in america and if so, what do we do, do we have extradition laws that allow the person to get to mexico if those guns were involved in a crime . Worked closely with the government of mexico to track those guns, atf, the u. S. Embassy in mexico city. And in cases where we have tracking information, where there are serial numbers on the guns, theres cooperation to share that with u. S. Law enforcement so they can track that. How we sent our people down there . We have u. S. Law enforcement officials in mexico. The person that broke the law selling the gun, have we sent him to the mexican prison for the judicial system . I would have to tack with doj for specific cases. I cannot recall if the top of my head. Would that be a strong deterrent if we did . I would assume it would. I will yield back. Thank you, congressman. Congressman phillips. Thank you, and thank you to the witnesses. We had a similar hearing about a month ago relative to aid to mexico and not surprisingly took center stage so i would like to begin with a question to you about how corruption very specifically impacts your work starting with you, mr. Glenn, and if you can be specific about corruption. Our focus is on Law Enforcement and so the efforts in the past and Going Forward as well will be on how do we eliminate or help the Mexican Government eliminate corruption in the public Security Forces. Can you talk about that. I want to hear specifically the Security Forces. About that corruption in sure. We have at least the alleged conduct of the former head of the police. Garcia luna was arrested in dallas. He was at the time i was in mexico one of our principled , interlocutors. Our principal interlocutors. So obviously that shakes the trust that we have got to work. But in order to do the work we do, we have to work with those the government of mexico has in place. Vet, we do theto vetting on the human rights side. And we do the internal vetting to make sure that the best of our knowledge, our partners are with us and not against us. And if we are uncovering troubling information do they act on it . Our mexican partners . To the extent that i know, yes. Can i jump in . I know mexico created a federal prosecutor for the crimes and theyve moved to remove immunity from elected officials that engage in corruption. And they have established the National Anticorruption system. Ran on aador president platform of prosecuting corrupt officials. One was arrested in spain with pemex based on the government of mexico for a legend corruption involving oda brecht. So they are pursuing corruption in both current and former administrations. Ms. Feinstein, and your work, how description affected . Corruption and anticorruption is one of the areas that we have focused on in mexico because of the toll that it takes on the mexican state at every level where that is encountered by individuals on a daytoday basis as well as businesses for example, corruption is estimated to cost mexico between five to 9 of its gdp, so its obviously an enormous problem for the private sector and individuals on a daytoday basis. Complement and what my colleagues have said, one of the areas that u. S. Iid engages in is looking at the procurement , process in mexico since a lot of the scandals and mexico have related to government procurement. So we have provided tools so that a spotlight can be shined on where corruption is going and with the guard to solesource procurement. Invested in block chain analysis and we have of the weaknesses in the procurement process and we are working with specific states on a demand driven basis, to help them look at vulnerabilities in the procurement system so that they can make those changes. Rodriguez, another line of questioning here, the foreign minister, Russian Foreign minister, sergey lavrov, announced that they were in talks to purchase the russianmade helicopters and if that were to proceed with risk sanctions under section 231 of the katsa act . Thank you, congressman. We saw that read between foreign minister lavrov and foreign secretary edouard. We read it with great interest and it is concerning to us. Based on our initial investigations it appears that such a sale would trigger sanctions under that act. And we dont have further specifics this morning but to but i would be happy to give a full readout. When we have it. Have we made our position clear torment skin friends . I believe we have at the Embassy Level but i need to check on us to confirm. At the washington level we have raised this area of concern with our counterparts in mexico city to raise with the government of mexico. We would present that information, thank you. We would appreciate that information. Thank you i yield my time. Thank you, congressman. Congressman ken buck . Thank you you. Ms. Feinstein i want to ask a , quick question you mentioned different ways you are trying to protect journalists. Could you go through those paired i remember panic button. By the way, who answers the panic button on the other side i hope not the corrupt Law Enforcement that we just heard about. So, this is through the National Protection mechanism that we as usaid helped the government establish. I asked you who answers it on the other side . Officials associated with it is the National Protection mechanism which are vetted and enforcement which will redirect that. Have you mentioned the Response Time of those folks . We recognize that, this is not a foolproof mechanism. So if you are a journalist and someone is with you trying to kill you and has therefore been in your presence no call from a , panic button is going to result in Law Enforcement coming and bailing you out immediately. Which is why. . To know what would . I was in Law Enforcement for 25 years ago there were a lot of people that didnt like me just like theres a lot of people that dont like me now but i did have a gun. Are we training these folks in the use of firearms . Not to the best of my knowledge. If it takes 15 minutes to show up and you have 20 seconds to react would that be a more efficient or a more effective way to help folks . I would refer you to the technical experts. I am not an expert in Law Enforcement. You clearly have more expertise in this area than i do. The panic button is one of a what i would say is that variety of mechanisms provided. We also provide support for Residential Security upgrades as nessa terry, protection teams, etc. So as not just the panic button. Exceptions with some , this has been successful protecting journalists and keeping them alive. That resourcesbe there are more resources invested in the mechanisms which can be expanded to provide greater protection which we would prefer to not have to do but is reality and mexico today. Someone handed you a note. I think the men told you whether we get them guns or not. No. In fact, that was an answer to a question on the recidivism rates that we tracked for 12 to 18 months afterwards. Thank you. Mr. Rodriguez, i wanted to know about the flow of drugs across the border and with the Mexican Government is doing. My understanding is they have enhanced the military or Law Enforcement presence along the border. Is that correct . If i could, i would like to pass this to rich. The cooperative programs we have with the government of mexico followed her his area of expertise. The interdiction response ability lies with multiple agencies within the government of mexico. The military is one of those and the National Guard is increasingly taking on that role. Im specifically asking about the border area. Is there enhanced security, nila terry Law Enforcement on the border area . Theres enhanced focus both on the mexican southern border as well as mex goes northern border. What is happening as a result of that. What results we see . Increased amounts of seizures. We see greater success with the equipment of the donated whether it is the equipment or the canines i mentioned. Weve also been trained to get we boss been trying to get them to focus and cooperate more on ports so the importation of the precursor chemicals. How much money have we given to mexico in the last 10 years to assist in this and why is that we are asking them to help with parts . S . With port do they also help with physical barriers along our southern border and their northern border . Let me touch first on the amount of money that we have spent over the last ten to 12 years on Border Security and that can be ports. It can be see ports or land ports. Weve spent about 200 million on equipment and training. So that is nonintrusive equipment, canines. Im wondering about mexico or much money do they spent . Are they paying for wall . A fiscal wall, not that i know of. But in terms of personnel, dedicated to screening and protecting the border, yes. They have deployed i dont know , a specific number on how much money they have spent. I yelled back. Thank you, congressman. Congressman castro . Under the migrant protection protocols, thousands of Vulnerable People are forced to live in dangerous conditions in mexico due to the administrations policies. Trump as they await their asylum claims. I along with other members of recently congress i visited the , border and i saw firsthand the conditions of disarray and fear and came away believing that its an inhumane situation we are placing these folks in. Border towns have become mexican incredibly dangerous and migrants victims of Violent Crime including robbery and rape and kidnapping as they languish at the border. So my question to you know how do you know have any individuals are currently in mexico under the Trump Administration remain and make a policy, awaiting adjudication of their asylum claims . Congressman castro i dont , know that i have have the number right in front of me that you would permit me would be , i would be happy to get the number back to you. Ok. Do you believe these people along the the border are safe in that environment . [silence] safe aslet me put it this way we and the government of , mexico are working to increase their safety. So our bureau of pop elation and refugees and migration works with International Organizations iom, tounhcr and provide support to migrants under the mpp program. To that extent, we are working directly to try to provide support and safety to those individuals as well as encouraging and working with the government of mexico to provide support and safety to those individuals as well. The state department acknowledges some of those mexican cities are cities the state department has advised americans not to travel to because of the danger of the cities . Yes sir. The stateeps has apartment and usaid taken to protect these people as they pursue their asylum claims . I will let barber talk about usaid. That my understanding from dhs colleagues is that the. Of time these individuals are waiting in mexico for their asylum hearings and processing is meant to be expedited as possible. Based on what we heard from folks the other day it is quite the opposite which is they are courts in United States are bringing them in for court dates and then setting up a recent date a reset court three or four months later basically hoping people will , either stay in mexico or just go away. So the folks that do remain are being subject to these dangerous conditions. And threatening conditions. But ive got about a minute and 40 seconds left unless they want to Say Something about usaid. No but just to mention this is not within usaids mandate in mexico. It is as dr. Roger gets mentioned with the pop elation and migration bro of the state department. We are not engaging in that area. It sounds like this is more in the wheelhouse of usaid than some of the work you have been describing for the last hour. Specifically in terms of how the u. S. Government handles migration, that is primarily within prm, within the state apart its bureau. Work on assignment strengthening, for exam, is not something usaid engaged in. That is something that prm does. You talked about the reform of the legal system or the Justice System. Do they have a public defender system . Or indigent Defense System there . They do. And through our work, we work of public defenders and Defense Attorneys at the state level primarily. How extensive is the system now is it nationwide . Yes. It was part of the judicial reform pole change to the Justice System in terms of presumption of innocence and rather than presumption of guilt and that has been implemented at every single state. That said, that are more mature there are some states that are more mature then are progressing more effectively than others. All one last you question. Fully automatic and semi there are lot offully automatic and semi automatic weapons trafficked to mexico from the United States. As United States Government Fund or help mexico retrieve those . Not just the serial numbers but to go get them . Under the Merida Initiative, we have aided and assisted the government of mexico in the form , of primarily recovering the weapons and being able to track them, through serial numbers and through the forensics. Atf is present in the embassy. It does work with the Attorney Generals Office with the state level Attorney Generals Office s to retrieve weapons that have been used in the cutting of crimes to be able to track them back and find how they came find who it is that bought them and how they came across the border. Thank you. Gonzalez . Sman vicente thank you, mr. Chairman. I have a few questions. Im certainly concerned about the trade routes to my district. And the violence on those roads. Being that mexico last year had if you consider the confirmed murders and disappearances that number exceeds every soldier we lost in vietnam and this is just in one year. Violence this extreme and mexico being our number one trading partner, are we having a conversation that this could potentially be a National Security threat if we have a failed state portions of the country that have failed and in my opinion they have in certain states are we having those conversations . With mexico . Thank you, congressman. We do have conversations every day about the security threats to mexican citizens, u. S. Citizens and the fact that this obviously represents a National Security extreme for mexico and the u. S. , so yes sir we do have those conversations. We are talking about that. Ok. Being that the homicide rate has skyrocketed over the past few years and we have also witnessed a series of issues come in here of impunity in prosecuting crimes, especially those against american citizens in mexico. Recently and in the past humans i can recall about 11 deaths of american citizens on mexican soil. Are we doing anything to extradite those individuals found to be the perpetrators of those crimes . Let me speak specifically to the horrific murder of latin american citizens in sonora at the end of 2019. Was in it to allah . Chihuahua . T , on the border of chihuahua. Agreedbrador president to a joint investigation with President Trump and i would urge you to talk with the fbi about where they are without. There are conversations and joint investigations going on addressing the homicides. Also i recognize the homicide rate has been going up specifically since 2014 has gone up every year. This is a problem the administration inherited and has been very focused on it will take a great deal of effort to bend that curve. That they are working on that. I can turn it over so we could talk about the efforts with merida and to professionalize investigations and prosecutions. I could speak specifically and quickly to extraditions. And the assistance we provide through the Merida Initiative. Sorry to interrupt. I want to know about extraditions on crimes perpetrated against americans in mexico. I know we have taken a special interest on this case. There are many others. Im curious if you have a concerted effort that we are actually trying to go after folks that are harming american citizens in mexico. The attorney general has traveled twice to mexico in the last two months to speak with his counterparts there and to urge a focus on extraditions the government of mexico has responded in a very full some away. We have seen a large number of high value extraditions over the months,f the last three as well as high volume fugitives u. S. For crimes that occurred in the United States. So yes, youre getting a full some response on extraditions. Groundss the underlying for each of those cases, i would have to refer you to doj. I do not know they are specific to crimes against merrick and citizens in mexico. That is the only reason im asking. In the last 90 days we have at least 11 americans murdered in mexico. One or two were from my district so this is a concern coming across one was on the bridge on the mexico side. We had a 13yearold kid get shot. I dont have any more confirmations from the state department certainly it is a concern. If i could add, im a Career Counselor officer in Foreign Service i spent a good deal of mexico andworking in on issues with regard to the safety of americans. Take it very seriously and we are immediately engaged when an american citizen is injured or something more grave happens to them in mexico. From my experience the mexicans, their government and consular function kicks into work closely in tandem with us in those cases. In terms of cooperation, and mikes parents over the past 20 years it has been copperheads of. I think we have had something north of 30 highvalue extraditions in the past 90 days. Thank you. No easynce in mexicos task. I hope we can work more closely in the coming months with the executive branch and mexico to improve the strategic approach thank you to all members who were here today and we are adjourned. Members who were here today and we are adjourned. [inaudible conversations] washington journal continues. Host joining us from new york city is