Lots going on this week. Andre joined by gabby orr cohen. At and by zach ahead. Tlook for the week lets start with impeachment. Remind us of where things are. Impeachment. Remind us where things are after the house in late december past the two articles of impeachment . Guest so really, nothing has changed for the most part since december 18 when the house voted to impeach President Trump on two articles on obstruction of congress and obstruction of power. Abuse of since then, House Speaker pelosi has not sent them to the senate to begin the next phase of the trial, thee senate process by which the senate will decide whether President Trump is guilty of those charges, so to speak. The problem is the rules have not been worked out yet, so we dont have a schedule for a trial, which is expected to happen sometime this month. Host in the absence of no plan quite yet gabby orr what is the white house strategy so far their plan for confronting the senate a likely senate trial . Guest there are two divergent views inside the white house. Nancy pelosi. , if she sends the articles over at some point in this week, the president would like to have a long trial where he calls witnesses, presumably people like joe biden and hunter biden, witnesses that republicans want to get before the senate but on unlikely to get democratic support to bring in front of the senate. Counsels office would prefer to see something short, speedy and acquits the president as quickly as possible, and they are working with senator mcconnell to make sure that is a preferable outcome. Host Mitch Mcconnell is leading all this in the senate but when it comes to what Actual Senate trial he wont have a eggroll to play, correct . Guest that is why the rules are so important that he wont have comes to the Actual Senate trial, he wont have a big role to play, correct . Guest that is why the rules are so important. They will make the arguments, senators will present questions in written form, then after that, he would like to see a vote on witnesses, subpoenaing documents, all the things democrats have been calling for. Other than setting the rules in place, it is a pretty strict process, there is precedent for how it needs to play. He doesnt have the full control on the matter. Host obviously, nobody could majornticipated a foreignpolicy crisis confronting the president and the congress on the return of congress, but how does this complicate not just the days ahead, but the weeks ahead, for the senate and congress in general to get their work done . Guest there are two conflicting tensions. You have the schedule without the articles of impeachment. The senate can keep doing what it has been doing vote on the nominations,. It will process another nominee as early as this afternoon. As well as maybe pass a trade deal this week. There is stuff they can do well the leadership is negotiating the top level stuff. But then there is the issue of senator kaine has a resolution that has to have a floor vote within 10 days that would halt any military action in a wrong in iran. That will happen sometime in the very busy days ahead, to have a vote. Does thisdoes this complicate the president s reelection efforts . Guest absolutely. The president s Campaign Team is deciding right now, how is it going to impact the month ahead, if we are at war with iran, if there is political turmoil in the middle east, and it is primarily because of the president s actions last week and going forward. That could have a severe impact on his reelection campaign. Right now, there are so many unforeseen circumstances, things that could happen between now and november, it is difficult for the white house political shop but also the president 2020 how thisto anticipate might register in, the polls how voters might be what is happening in the region and whether that will present a significant roadblock for the president such a reelection. Host we are seeing news that the Democratic Senate leader schumer and senator we read this morning that the Speaker Pelosi announced yesterday that she would take up a war powers resolution vote in the u. S. House. Guest right. The administrations position on this, secretary pompeo made the case on a number of sunday news shows that this was an imminent threat, that they did not need to notify congress, or they did not need to seek approval from Congress Ahead of time. However, under the war powers act, they do need to water five congress, and that notification was reportedly sent but is entirely classified. Democrats would like to see it declassified so there can be a broader debate over whether this particular action was legal or justified. Host will white house officials brief the selected committees or members in general on the actions of the president and the actions the president took. Guest secretary mark esper is heading to the hill today to decision. Ers on the secretary pompeo said over the weekend that they are looking at potentially declassified the letter sent to congress the theclassifying the letter from congress. But there are political clarifications of doing so. They want to keep the there are political implications of doing so. Host quite early to tell if there is any pulling on this, but the letter generally says, what does the administration feel has been the response from the president s supporters and potential voters to the strike in iraq. Guest among the president s base, he has said his entire Foreign Policy outlook is to put America First. That is the argument we have heard him and his allies make in the past few days. I think it resonates with his base to some extent. But if you go back to the things the president outlined during the 2016 campaign, this is not completely in line with the Foreign Policy outlook that he described back then. He has said for many years now that he is not into nationbuilding, he doesnt want to get america into a new wars. So it is difficult to recognize what is happening right now and the escalation of potential violence and turmoil in the region with what the president said in 2016. It could very well impact the way independent voters, people who are drawn to the president but are wary of his Foreign Policy, how they react to his decision. Host the senate armed services, the house armed services, may they take up the issue in a public hearing or closed . Guest the Senate Committee has not put anything on the schedule for this. I think in the meantime, you will see plenty of discussion on the floor and in the media over this issue. One thing i would add on the future of this, we shouldnt overlook that any potential drawdown of troops in iraq that has been requested by the Iraqi Parliament would potentially impact any offensive against isis, and that has been a big priority for the president. Host the news reports indicated the operation has at least temporarily seized to focus on protecting u. S. Troops. Guest right. Host what about u. S. Personnel, asked to leave baghdad . U. S. Statenclude all department officials, department and military being asked to leave . Guest i think it only applies to military officials. But dont guest it is nonbinding this statement from the Iraqi Parliament and the current Prime Minister. They dont have the authority to enforce it, and it doesnt seem like the Trump Administration is interested in a drawdown. Guest they have been resistant to any idea of removing troops from iraq. The president said that if iraq forced american troops to leave the country, the president would impose sanctions like we have never seen before, a line he frequently uses in terms of threats against these countries, so it is something the administration is very resistant to. Host we heard from a caller who said the members who actually voted on that were that shia representation in the iraqi legislative bond, the council or parliament, if you will in baghdad, not the representatives of the full population in iraq. Is that decision by the Iraqi Parliament, does it complicate congresss decision on whether or revoke an aumf, war powers, things like that . Guest certainly, lawmakers are reticent to voting on any aumf. I would imagine a dedicated show of force in the middle east would be unwelcome by iraq, 20 some odd years after troops first landed there. I would imagine it would certainly come to get things. Cohen covers the senate for the national journal, and gabby orr covers the white house for politico. The numbers are on your screen if you would like to contact us. We go first cover city, california of the democrats line . Caller i was enthralled with the conversation that you almost caught me off guard. I would like to know from the two people that are there, how do you think that the president and this administration can convince anybody of anything,fter a history of 10,000 lies of his administration and cabinet lying constantly, constantly lying, having a reputation of being a pathological liar. Do you guys know the story of the boy who cried wolf . How is anybody going to believe anything he says . That to me that this event caused him to shoot or kill soleimani, the general in iran, is simply his impeachment. That was the event that caused them to do this. I want you to consider one scenario, if by some miracle we get to the point where oconnell allows the trial and we get to the point where all the democrats vote to remove him from office and we get down to 19 republicans, what do you think this guy will do when it gets to 19 republicans and he is looking at the 20th republican . Thank you, god bless you. Host gabby orr, would you like to respond . What is the white house strategy in terms of the president , selling, or speaking to the American People about his decision . Guest secretary pompeo was on cnn yesterday and was asked about the president s credibility problem, and how that will impact the way he responds to questions about his decision to approve the strike against soleimani. I think the white house is going to roll out a number of campaign weeks, wherext few the president will talk heavily about protecting americans, focusing on National Security, bringing us back to the America First message. But it does present a significant issue. This president has many times before been questioned about things he has said when talking about decisions that went into policymaking, or the things he has asked other Administration Officials to do, whether they so ilawful or unlawful, think it does present a difficult issue for the white house and also the Trump Campaign to convince prospective trump voters and independent voters, who would not normally consider voting for this president , that they can trust it was the right decision, and that everything that went into this decision followed standard procedure. Host i headline from the daily beast, reflects a little what the caller said. People are asking if the attack is a distraction from impeachment. The question is why now. Why not a month ago . Zach . Guest there is precedent for this. In 1998, when the house campaigned to impeach president clinton, there was a bombing in iraq. House republicans were livid at that, and they thought there must have been some sort of connection and distraction from current impeachment proceedings. Remember, that was the first time in over 100 years that a president had been impeached, over weapons inspections. So, yes, senator warren and others on the left have started to question whether this where the dog in fact where this is effect, the dog whether the killing of soleimani is an effort to distract from impeachment. Host interesting connection to the clinton impeachment. Still goes back to iraq. Guest as they say, history tends to rhyme. [laughter] ahead. Amuel, go caller my question is to your ywo gusts on parliamentar procedure in the house of representatives. Could you address the rule change they made, h. R. 66, that i think could help them expedite impeachment . Guest i am not familiar. Host what is your familiarity with it . Maybe it will jog our memories. Caller i am not a reporter, i am not up on that stuff. It is resolution 66 passed by democrats. Host to be fair to zack, humanely covers the senate for national journal, and gabby orr for the white house. Lets go to maryland on the democrats line. Under in hyattsville, maryland. Caller yes. Mcconnellissue of as a nonissue, because in the house, they have an assistant leader. Credibility,n and they could sideline mr. Mcconnell and give the upper hand the assistant leader to solve the problem . Guest i think what the caller might be referencing is that over the coming days there will is 4focus on the number republicans who would vote with the senators to change the rules. They would need for republicans to vote with the democrats, enough that they would need Vice President pence to break the tie. If that were the case, you could see the majority of democrats determining the rules of the senate trial. But that is a heavy lift considering the republicans tend to vote in a bloc. Host who would be the potential four . Guest you have Susan Collins and senator murkowski who previously have made comments criticizing the lockstep between the white house and majority leader mcconnell. They could vote for a different rules package, although senator collins thinks the 99 model mcconnell wants is something that should be a starting point. You could see senator mitt romney, who is not a fan of the president , freshman republican from utah who was the republican president ial nominee in 2012. Maybe a retiring senator like lamar alexander, pat roberts, mike enzi, a couple of possibilities, but it is a heavy lift for something as highprofile as this. Host what is the white house to do in the white house what is the white house to do to keep republicans of the writers in their court, in line . Bit. working the phones a the president has been in touch with a lot of his allies on capitol hill as well as republicans like Susan Collins, who said the president has not spoken directly with her but has been in touch with officials heading into the trial. And we of course expect that to continue the next few weeks. The president has also brought down a number of lawmakers to maralago. He spent three weeks down there in florida wining and dining these people. He golfed with senator graham at one point. Really making sure that his allies are not only allied with his strategy on impeachment, but are acting as communicators back on the hill to their politics and making sure their Senate Colleagues are also in line with what the white house things should happen. Host senator graham will be perhaps the point person other than Mitch Mcconnell. He was on Fox News Sunday morning and he said, that he is willing to work with senator mcconnell, but would like to see some rules changes. Change the chambers rules. Here is what he said. [video clip] we are not going to let nancy pelosi use the rules of the senate to her advantage. This is dangerous to the presidency. They have impeach the president , but the speaker of the house is holding the articles back, trying to extort from the majority leader of the senate a trial to her liking. They are trying to hold these articles over the head of the president. I think the reason they are. Sending them is because they are so weak, and it is a pathetic case and they are looking to add something. What i would do, if she continues to refuse to send articles, as required by the constitution. I would work with senator mcconnell to change the rules of the senate so we could start the trial without her if necessary. How soon will you move to change the rules of the senate . Sen. Mcconnell days, not weeks. What she is doing is bad for the country, bad for the senate. It keeps us from getting on with the business of the American People. It denies the president his day in court. The founders never envisioned he would have a speaker who would do Something Like this, would hold the articles, demanding the senate band to her well. It is not going to happen. I hope she sends them over soon so we can get on with the trial. If not, i would urge my colleagues to change the rules of the senate so we can proceed with the trial without pelosi being involved. Host zach, you pointed out earlier that senate rules are a critical part of this. Guest there is this tension rate have Speaker Pelosi hoping to get a better deal out of the rules, in hopes that some republicans could come over to leader schumer and vote for a rules package that includes witnesses and documents, because democrats have continued to see emails and reporting by the new york times, and others that have given a better sense of the circumstances around the withholding of the Ukrainian Military security aid that is at the center of this probe. So they would like to see that come out in a trial. Ishink senator graham alluding to the, fact that the longer this goes on the more evidence could come out, the closer it gets to the election. And this is not favorable to some of the more vulnerable members of the chamber, people olexander murkowski people like senator collins and mccroskey. That is what he points out that Speaker Pelosi has very little leverage on the issue. Guest it is also interesting that senator graham was saying we could move to start the trial without pelosi even sending the articles of impeachment over because if you look at the president s twitter feed over the last few weeks he has repeatedly shared the perspective of some conservative constitutional scholars who argue that impeachment is not even happen until the articles are sent over to the senate. It sounded kind of striking that a senator would now acknowledge, that even if the articles are not sent over, yes, we can still move on with the impeachment trial. Avenue, yousylvania have the president saying, right now, i am not impeached. Host the senate gavels in at 3 00 eastern this afternoon. We go to california on the republican line. Welcome. Caller i had a question. It was in april, nine months ago, that we declared the revolutionary guard a terrorist organization. Evenbviously, we are willing to kill american citizens without a trial, drone strikes, like what happened under the Obama Administration. If you are considered to be a terrorist, should the congress and all these politicians who are saying they are very surprised that trump was able to make this action should they have seen this coming, when it was declared a terrorist organization . Host zach . Guest excellent question because this is something democrats have been talking about for a while. They saw the link between the irgc labeled as a terrorist organization, and they werent back then that this could have been justification for further strikes in iran and the killing of soleimani. As this goes to the legal underpinning to this action, which is crucial, and democrats are concerned that the Trump Administration will try to use the aumf, the authorized use of military force asked after 9 11 as a legal justification for any action in iran. That aumf was written quite broadly, and there has been talk on voting on a new one. Via iran would1 certainly change the legal dynamic. Host to your knowledge, has the president ever been presented with the option of attacking or taking out soleimani before . Guest i dont know the answer to that question. Those types of military decisions, the president has in terms of options the pentagon provides him are held closely. Even National SecurityCouncil Officials dont learn of them until the very last minute, or after the president has already authorized one of those options. So it is difficult to say whether this has been on the table before. What i think is important is that, over the last few days, we heard a number of democrats call this an assassination, something the white house has taken a lot of issue with. Not only the white house, but also conservative allies on capitol hill. I know senator cotton has pushed back against that. They say it is an assassination, it would be links to primarily religious or political reasons, and they say this is strictly a military strike. I think that is a talking point we will hear more of from the president the next few days. Host lets go to windsor mill, maryland on the democrats line. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. Definitely, on one hand, i support of the impeachment and removal of President Trump. But this first time, i will be agreeing with trump on the killing of the general in iran, soleimani. I myself believe definitely that he deserved to be killed. I believe that he has blood in his hands. He has done a lot of evil things around the world. That is no difference between him and osama bin laden. Offense when i see some of the president ial candidates and i support very well go around and calling this an assassination. But in terms of impeachment, i will definitely say that i am ashamed of Mitch Mcconnell and Lindsey Graham and how they are defending the president has committed these kinds of theies by trying to election in the United States of america. I support the president when it comes to the issue of the general, but also i support the impeachment and removal of President Trump. Hank you host a response. Examplet is a perfect of what the Democratic Candidates are encountering on the campaign trail, and why youre seeing them be so careful about how they talk about the strike against soleimani. You have seen Pete Buttigieg say that yes, he was a ruthless killer, he has american blood on his hands, we should support the killing of him. But at the same time, we need to take a step back and determine whether or not this was the right time to issue the strike. Other democrats have weaved more careful responses to the way the president has handled this, but it is certainly something coming up on the campaign trail. It is interesting to hear from a democratic voter, presumably who does not support this president , but is pleased with the decision. Gives thewise, president a chance to respond to the democrats response to the killing. Guest absolutely, it puts Foreign Policy back on the stage, and it is not something we have to talk about in the primary. While it does give the president a chance to his bond, it is also respond, itnce to is also not a topic interest talking about on the campaign trail, so it could put some harm on his campaign. Host andrew on the independent line. Caller thanks for taking my call. I voted for trump in 2016, but there is no chance i will be voting for him in the general election in 2020. I am actually going with andrea. The main reason is this mandatory spending versus discretionary spending. It is going insane. I am actually going with andrew yang. I dont see one politician who wants to address this issue. It is upsetting to me that they are more worried about impeachment than the 393 billion just on interest we are spending on just the debt. I would like to hear your thoughts about that. Host zach, we will start with you, Senate Reporter for national journal. Guest it is overlooked that Congress Passed a 1. 3 trillion budget last month, delayed by negotiations over mostly Border Security and funding for the border wall, if you will. Certainly, the debt and deficit is an issue. It has been rising, and there has been very meager efforts to address that. This congress and since President Trump came to office, you have a couple of dozen republicans, some freshman, some fiscal conservatives who will be voting against these budget agreements because of what they see as a lacking effort to address the debt and the deficit, but to the callers point, mandatory spending is the key issue rather than any appropriations package. Host outside of impeachment, beyond iran, what do you see at some of the key issues the senate will tackle in the coming weeks . Guest the Senate Finance committee on tuesday i believe, will take on the u. S. M. C. A. Agreement, a big priority for the Trump Administration and for senate republicans, who have been calling for its passage, as Speaker Pelosi and the trade representative Robert Lighthizer have been negotiating it behind closed doors. It passed the house late last year and now comes before the senate. Senator mcconnell has said had said they might probably take it up after the trial. We could see passage of the implementing legislation as soon as this week. Host you also write about the new incoming senator from georgia. He jumps from donor circles to the arena. We understand he will be stored in today. Tell us about her. Guest i believe she would be the 24th woman in the senate, the highest number of women in the senate, a historic milestone. She comes from georgia. She is personally wealthy. Or and her husband run a number of Financial Services firms. Her husband actually runs the New York Stock Exchange they will. Have funds to run in 2020 in november in the special election to fill the seat. Host interesting, though, she was not the president s first choice, correct . Guest not at all. He wanted representative doug collins, who was a major figure in the impeachment probe in the house defending the president in the hearings. But he did not get that particular appointment. That is up to governor brian camp, the newly elected republican governor of georgia. Host to buffalo new york, on the republican line. Caller i have a comment and a question. My first comment is, i voted for President Trump in 2016, but i expected a republican congressmen and senators to hold this man responsible, and they are falling on their job bigtime. My question is, i heard on different media sources, that the reason why soleimani was in iraq was because President Trump asked the Prime Minister of iraq to be a gobetween between iran and saudi arabia. So he was taking the message from the Prime Minister of iraq to irans ayatollah. I want to know, is that the reason why where he was, what he was going to iran, bringing messages from saudi arabia to iran . So he was a gobetween at the time that we killed him. This is stupid. Justis nothing, it is plain dumb. Host ok from buffalo, we go to bloomington, indiana on the democrats line. Go ahead. Caller i am calling to talk about Mitch Mcconnell and the that he is not going to have witnesses. There must be a reason that hes not having witnesses. He hasall kinds of bills not passed from the house that are bipartisan. He doesnt even bring them out. Something is very broken in our government, and something needs to be done. Host gabby orr, on witnesses. Remind us again, they would like to see some witnesses . Guest the president would like to see some witnesses, because he really wants to have a madefortv moment where you have people defending his actions, people drawing out more links to the hunter biden and thing that he has been talking about. But there are a number of individuals inside the white house who are more aligned with Mitch Mcconnell in making that a speedy trial, something that doesnt have this long, drawn , process that doesnt include witness testimony is better politically for the president. Host when President Trump holds a rally, he talks a lot about the witchhunt,he talks about the impeachment process. Thet something he feels best politically is a bonus for him to have this as an issue . Guest absolutely. The Trump Campaign really thinks impeachment has ultimately benefited them, and will continue to boost him heading into november. The polling they reference has shown somewhat of a stagnant response to impeachment. We havent seen either opposition or support for impeachment grow exponentially in the past few weeks, so they cite that as the reason that the president is benefiting from it, but also, just a fundraising. We just saw the fundraising calls for a number of Democratic Candidates, but also the president , in the 24 hours after the house impeached President Trump. The campaign raised almost 10 million. So they cite about as another example of the response to what is happening on capitol hill. Host of course, Vice President pence is at any of those rallies. The headline in your politico. Com these says pence on the campaign trail for trumpet himself. What is that about . Guest just watching him on the campaign trail, it is difficult as a reporter to see him only as a surrogate for trumps reelection campaign, knowing that Vice President pence obviously has residential estimations himself. He has taken a very different approach to the president s campaign position. The president will often drop into a major metropolitan area or suburb, just outside of a city or the rust belt, ia, georgia, and hold Campaign Rallies that draw thousands of people. And mike pence is focused on the more personal, intimate interactions with voters on the campaign trail. He tends to do the pedestrian politicking that the president loathes and doesnt want to engage him. Talking to folks who are close to mike pence who he regularly consults about his political ambitions, it is clear that he is using this moment to formulate the winning or Successful Campaign for 2024. Host zach, how often in his role as president of the caller you both seem very much like millennials. How can you square the actions of this president showing strength toward iran versus the prior president , which i guess you both were in high school, with getting billions of dollars in cash in the middle of the iran . To try to appease we give you a bunch of money coming you are going to be nice to us, just like bill clinton said. Were going to give you nukes to north korea and youre going to be nice to us, and obviously they are not. How can you square those two things . Dont you see the hypocrisy . Actually, you dont, as you guys were, i dont know, cheerleading or something. Host feel free to answer that but we read the story earlier that the administration is really using the president obama a lot, comparing with this president to what the Obama Administration did or did not do, specifically on your run iran . Guest i was going to say that the callers argument sounds very similar to secretary pompeo yesterday making the case for the president s actions toward iran. Alladministration says that of the turmoil in the region, all of the deescalation occurred under the Obama Administration, but the moment that we enter the Iranian Nuclear deal was the moment that served as the catalyst for what were seeing now. That is the argument youre going to continue to hear the president make because just over the past three years of his presidency, he has time and time again positioned himself and cast himself as completely antithetical to the Obama Administration of Foreign Policy. He likes to take that and compare it to his America First agenda and i think this is really a moment where we are going to see that played up as is possible. Host how much have you been covering the Trump White House . Guest the moment he launched his president ial campaign and here i am five years later. Guest ive been covering the senate for a year and politics for the last five. Host north carolina, democrats line. Hello. Caller top of the morning to you and your panel. Look. You guys know just like i know that trump does not want any witnesses to talk to the senate. Mitch mcconnell has already glove he will be hand in with this president. If he is hand in glove, why do they have to vote on having witnesses for trump if trump wants witnesses . Mitch mcconnell would have said that. We all know that is a lie coming from trump, trying to make and send good before the public. My question is, what the president is impeached and he hasnt gone to the senate yet to have his trial to be acquitted or to be removed from office, isnt it that was a president is impeached, his power is suspended until he gets through the senate trial . Why he is doing this stuff as though he is still king of the Republican Party . Guest thats untrue. Impeachment actually has no force of law behind it, the president still has all the powers he did on december 17 and vice versa. The only actual ramification of any is that it is supposed to force a trial in the senate to vote whether to convict or acquit the present, which a sitting president has never been convicted in the senate. We had two impeachments, Andrew Johnson and bill clinton, both of which ended in acquittal in the senate. Johnson, nearly by just one vote. I would also come in to the point, point out that trump in recent days has been deferring to Mitch Mcconnell on senate rules, saying he is a fair man, he runs the senate and it is ultimately his decision, but he has been wanting to see people like hunter biden and joe biden come in and he once to make the case because he wants to be able to come out of the senate trial saying ive been acquitted. Host let me end on that with gabby. The evolution of the president s view and his relationship with Mitch Mcconnell. Youve covered the white house for five years and he is the majority leader. Guest it has been fascinating to watch, just going back to the days of the health care votes. The ways that the president treated Mitch Mcconnell as a lapdog and holding him accountable for the failure of republican efforts to repeal and replace obamacare is so different compared to the relationship that they have now. As ive been saying throughout the course of this discussion, the president does really want to see significant defense mounted for him in the senate, he wants to see witnesses. But at the same time, if that is not what Mitch Mcconnell thinks is best for the president , but also for Vulnerable Senate republicans, the president is going to defer to mcconnell and that marks a significant change. I cant overstate that enough. Host before i let you go, the president on twitter this morning with Lindsey Graham, trump saying the great scam continues, spending time on the political hoax at this moment in our history when im so busy is sad. Gaddy covers the white house for politico. Exact cover the senate for national journal. Appreciate you both for being here. Id like to give you all a one minute warning, please. We will be starting. Testing. We will be starting in one minute. Ok, all right