We have passed federal bills and more than 100 bills across the country so we are really grateful for all of the support from the people. Certainly the support from our , generous people who really just want to make the world a better place. Today is the oneyear anniversary of the First Step Act being signed into law. Tell us what the First Step Act did and how effective has it been. Washe First Step Act actually a negotiated bill. It wasnt even the build we really hoped to pass, which was the sentencing reform and corrections act. It was a groundbreaking reform at safelywas aimed reducing incarceration at the federal level and also reducing recidivism. But also it ensured that we do not have these egregiously long oneences for people like woman who received a life sentence for a first time lowlevel nonviolent drug crime. Effective. Been it has freed thousands who should have been home years ago, but we still have a long way to go, and yesterday actually we thea one Day Anniversary of fair chance act which is really our next step which ensures that federal jobs are open to all americans. Everyone was not a fan of i will read a bit of what you wrote for the bill. The Justice Department according to one report is inexplicably spending taxpayer resources trying to find ways of bringing some of the prison release back into federal custody. One investigation found dozens of instances where there was arguments against releasing these prisoners early usually basing their cases on some technicality rather than the often smaller or more vague amount that they violated years ago. There is no secret that the Justice Department opposed the first act but i remain hopeful when officials promise to if limit the law. Where is the disconnect here between what the First Step Act does, which was approved by the president , and what the Justice Department seems to be trying to back off of . This is what is frustrating to all of us, the department of justice has really been acting as a Fourth Branch of government for decades. We could get into this a little bit later, but they issued a report talking about how they were implementing the First Step Act, and they didnt mention the fact that they were looking for loopholes to ensure that a lot of these individuals who wouldve been eligible for the First Step Act and Early Release would stay in prison. That is really frustrating to all of us, because we really have tried to work with members of Law Enforcement and have been successful in that in the states. We were very angry, but i want to say because we are moving are the holiday season, we all open to working together and finding a path forward to ensure the Justice Department is fair and that the people who are behind bars and have a pathway back to society, i am hopeful that justice will continue to try to work with us toward ensuring that there is not they are not just getting wins, but rather we are working towards a system that really does work towards the best outcome and improve Public Safety. True chrism personal reform is rooted in the concern for s. Ctim all of the policies that we are working on has been proven to lower recidivism rates. Over the last decade, the 10 states that most significantly reduce their incarceration rates have seen an average drop in crime rates of about 19 , and conversely the 10 states that continue to increase their incarceration rates through some of the policies earlier have only seen an average drop of about 11 , so true criminal Justice Reform makes us safer and that is what is better for victims. That is white in kentucky we have been able to work with the Domestic Violence coalition and other groups because they understand that true criminal Justice Reform actually makes society a safer place. We will open up special lines this morning. If you have experience in the criminal Justice System, whether you are a prosecutor or have been released from prison or whether you are a sheriff, we want to hear from you on this subject. The line for those with experience with the criminal 202 e system will be 7488000. If you are in Law Enforcement we will want to hear from you on this subject. 202 7488001be. If you still want to talk about the subject of sentencing and criminal reform, and you are not in either one of these groups, we have another line for you, which is 202 7488002. If you have experience in the criminal Justice System your. Ine is 202 7488000 if you are in Law Enforcement, 202 7488001. Everyone else, your line is 202 7488002. I have no idea what you just said. Theres a lot of ways for people to get into this conversation. The First Step Act, it dealt with federal prisons. Is that something that the doorc justice act that focuses on . In threerted our work states, michigan, ohio, pennsylvania. This will in 2020, be our five year anniversary. I think that is because state lawmakers, they have to face their constituents every day. They understand that we are not going to be able to incarcerate. Ur way in kentucky, there are a lot of people who are very sick. Sick people should not be behind bars for they should be getting treatment. That is what really its all about. It is about distinguishing between people who are sick and people who are dangerous, and sick people need to be getting treatment. We have been able to show that across the country where we are able to divert individuals who are suffering from mental illness, where we have been able to divert them to treatment options, the outcomes we see are better. It is also better for society. Back in october, the president discuss this. Heres what he had to say. Party lines across very strongly. After all of the work, we pass the bill and i proudly signed into law. Reform inignificant many generations. We call it the First Step Act. I like the idea of just calling it criminal Justice Reform. But first step is good because that allows a third step and a that is ok because we can go there. But this proved that we can. Chieve amazing breakthroughs since we passed this landmark legislation, 10 states have followed our lead and pass legislation that takes critical steps to advance reform at the state level. We gave it a beautiful steppingstone and some states have come and really taking it to a level that they would be proud of. It is only because of what we did that they were able to do it legally and in many other ways. So i want to say congratulations to all of the leaders here today from arizona, florida, louisiana, mississippi, missouri, michigan, nevada, oklahoma. Congratulations. Those were comments that the president made. How does the First Step Act deal with Racial Disparities in sentencing . To be very honest about the disparities in the system. Resetk until we do a full of the criminal laws that we have on the books, it will be difficult to address Racial Disparities and also gender disparities. The fastestgrowing segment of the prison population is women. One in four are either pregnant or a mother to a child under the age of one. We are not just talking about and epidemic of incarcerated women, but one of the children who are growing up without their moms that breaks my heart. We got a long way to go. One of my concerns as we sort of looked back on the past year is when we talk about the passage of the First Step Act, that people think we just fixed the Justice System. We have just fixed our Justice System. I hope they understand that the reason why we branded First Step Act as a first step is because it is just that we have such a long way to go. There are so many people who are buried alive in our jails and prisons right now. Very talented people, good people, who have made mistakes. Who are not bad people. And certainly, they are given the opportunity to come back into society and turned their lives around, they could make a difference in this world. There are two individuals who have become dear friends, matthew charles, who the president referenced in his state of the union this year, id alice mary johnson, who was just within new york as we were lobbying the past the fair spent decades in prison this woman is a grandmother. Her marriage fell apart. She had five children. She was desperate to feed her kids and ended up falling into gambling and had all of this debt and fell into a drug conspiracy. But this is one is women ive ever met. I thought to myself how are we serving Public Safety and how are we serving society by keeping this woman behind bars . I am certainly very grateful that the president sees the value in criminal Justice Reform, and whether from a policy or political perspective i do not really care. I am just grateful he sees the value. But i do think we have to be very careful to give a lot of credit to chuck grassley, it may conservative from iowa, and dick durbin, a progressive from illinois, who held firm together and kept their promises to each other. Because of those two, and so many others, both sides of the aisle, now we are embarking in a new day in the american Justice System that is really rooted in a concern for Public Safety and ensuring that the right people are behind bars for the right amount of time. Join lets let our viewers the conversation. Liz calling from new jersey. Liz has experience with the criminal Justice System. Good morning. Caller good morning. I am interested in your topic, maybe because earlier in my life, i taught inside a state prison here in new jersey. I did that for close to 15 years. My real concern, however, is a lot of advocacy now on prison reform, which i have always generally supported, tends to be either with the inmates who were incarcerated or with the celebrity field of people who never saw, never talked to, and definitely never worked inside a prison. They do not know inmates. I think some of the things that they are espousing are going to , releasing toos many people who have real problems. Experience. Have the they are constantly talking about somebody with a drug addiction problem, but normally, you are in prison for a drug sales problem. With peopleing carrying guns in an organized crime activity, not just smoking a little weed saturday night in your house. Welso think, during my time, fought to try to get more and more money for education. Most of our inmate population has not finished high school, even in a state as educated as new jersey. And they have left the classrooms at a young age to pursue activities of the streets. So a lot of them are put there because they have Mental Health problems that leads to the drug addiction that leads to the drug sales. It goes that way. And i think the kardashians and all these famous people stepping up they mean well but they do not know what they do not know. Host we are going to respond, because you had a lot of issues there. Guest first of all, i want to say thank you so much for your service and what you have been doing for the past decade to help people incarcerated. And you are exactly right. I think one of the mistakes that we have made in our movement and we have to be very honest about this. Beginning of the criminal Justice Reform push, we were scared to bring lawenforcement to the table. Probation officers, prosecutors, sheriffs, jailers we were almost afraid to have them at the table to talk about these issues, because we just assumed, from that jump, that they would be opposed to any type of reform. That was a huge mistake. Actually, when we finally sit down and talk to one another and i have a personal experience with this in kentucky when we finally sit down and talk with Law Enforcement, not talking past each other but rather to each other, we have the same goals in mind. In fact, so many members of Law Enforcement really have innovative ideas on how to make our Justice System fairer and more effective. To your point about having all of these celebrities look, i am from kentucky. We do not really have a deep appreciation for celebrities, other than basketball players. So i get it. I get your point. We really do need long was meant at the table leading the charge. That is why i am grateful the fraternal order of Police Actually endorsed the First Step Act, which was really wonderful. Commonwealth of kentucky, rob sanders, the toughest of the top on crime prosecutors, really had an Innovative Program with a rehabilitation facility called the life learning center, where he was diverting a lot of individuals who otherwise would have been convicted of felonies to this rehabilitation facility that has had enormous success. Wereor forever, rob and i at odds with each other. Finally, when we met in the middle, literally and figuratively, in kentucky to talk about our goals, we had a lot in common. And it was on me and it was on the Reform Community for not of hisg that rob and all colleagues in Law Enforcement were not at the table and really leading the charge. ,o i am hopeful, moving forward that you and your colleagues and prosecutors and Police Officers will be helping shape this movement and ensuring we are doing it in a responsible way. The vast many of you, majority of you, certainly have the best interests of the American People at heart. Host speaking of Law Enforcement, lets talk to ben, in Law Enforcement, calling from owings mill, maryland. Caller good morning. In good morning to your guest. Ive seen Law Enforcement e been in almost 30 is a 30 years now in the district of columbia. Every 10 years, it seems to transform itself and go in different directions. Justseen it where we are locking and warehousing and throwing the key away too well intended programs that just did not quite work for various reasons to now what i see, particularly in the district of columbia, a more holistic approach to dealing with the andes from a Mental Health a wellrounded perspective. That thereearned is are a lot of people who come at a very young age, may have done committed these crimes. It and and just received sentences that are 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. And a lot of them have truly done a lot to reform themselves and have taken advantage of what has been offered them, not only from an educational standpoint or a jobtraining standpoint, but from a holistic standpoint of transforming themselves. To where they actually can reflect upon the Different Things ive done in life, to being remorseful, to wanting to contributive citizens. It is sad to me, sometimes, when i see these people and particularly, if you get a chance, you may want to go to washington, d. C. And see some of the things they have there but these people come into society and really be a positive ambassador for transformation in the community on the front and. But it is sad to see some of these people and granted, i know when they have done these things a person may have committed a crime at 16 or 17 and are now presently at the age of 40, they are two different people. Guest thank you. It is so wonderful to hear this perspective from Law Enforcement , because, again, these are the individuals on the front lines, who see the challenges in our Justice System every day. And he is exactly right. It is interesting to meet i republican politics, divisive republican politics, for years. We often used the whole tough on crime mantra in so many of our campaigns. Now, the vast majority of American People see that being smart on crime is what is truly tough on crime. The justiceed in in thenetwork polled, Justice Action Network, between 70 and 90 of voters, from the far left to the far right, believe we should be safely reducing incarceration and that we have gone too far with a lot of the tough on crime policies we put on the books in the 80s and 90s 1980s and 1990s. Law enforcement, the callers this morning, to civil rights activists, business leaders, veterans groups, womens groups, family organizations, conservatives, progressives, libertarians all across the ideological spectrum, everyone now understands that we have two ideht side our to rights our Justice System. We went too far in the 1980s and 1990s. We have far too many people behind bars. Topre one of the worlds incarcerated is, and it is really a stain on our nation. Certainly with the First Step Act and yesterday, with a fair chance act, we are trying to right the ship. I am just really grateful for ben and all the members and Law Enforcement who are leading the charge and ensuring our Justice System is more effective. Specificss talk about for what the First Step Act has done. This is from july. Over 3100 federal Prison Inmates will be released from the bureau of prisons custody as a result of the increase in good conduct time under the act. In addition, the Retroactive Application of the fair sentencing act of 2010, reducing the disparity between crack cocaine and powder cocaine triggering mandatory middle minimum sentences has resulted in 1000 691 sentence reductions. 691 sentence reductions. We are still getting callers about state systems. Here is a question wanting to know about what has been happening on criminal Justice Reform in the states. Where are the successes . Where should we be looking to see success on criminal Justice Reform in the states right now . Guest i am so glad you asked. And you hail from a state that has been a great leader in criminal Justice Reform. Republican, the previous governor in georgia, was one of the nations leaders in criminal Justice Reform policy. I had the opportunity to meet with him with several of our partner groups before he left office. And georgia actually implemented every level of criminal Justice Reform, from sentencing reform to reentry policies. And this is a man, a republican, able to get a unanimous vote on sentencing reform in georgia, which we used the call deep red georgia i guess it is a little purple now. The states that is where it is at right now. We started with the Justice Action Network in three states. Next year, we will be in 20 states. From progressive states like new york to confer viv conservative states like my home commonwealth of kentucky, the first state in the nation to go for donald trump on election night. Tennessee will be a huge leader on criminal Justice Reform. ,he governor is a business guy talked about criminal justice part of hisa huge estate of the state address. There are conservative governors all over the country oklahoma who understand that this actually in light as a conservative, i can say criminal Justice Reform fits perfectly into conservative policy. It is good for families. It ensures we are saving money. Overreach. Vernment there are so many ways that it fits perfectly with conservative policy. But then, of course, it also is a rate for great for progressives, who want to talk about disparities and civil rights violations. I have found that my friends on the right and the left are now conflating these issues. There are folks like rand paul, going into the west and end of louisville and talking about Racial Disparities. Good friends on the left talking about saving money. I think the states have really been the focus for a long time. In fact, the fair chance act, the Second Chance employment act that the president signed into law just last night as an amendment to the defense isnding bill, even though it a huge step forward, it will open thousands of federal Job Opportunities to people who made mistakes but want to turn their lives around. 35 states have already done this. This is not Ground Breaking policy. It has been done and has been done in deep red states like kentucky, indiana, oklahoma, arizona. The really grateful for caller, jason from atlanta, for bringing up what is happening in the states. The states are the ones, the laboratories of democracy, who have shown us that these policies were, both from a Public Policy standpoint and ensuring that reform is fair. Ed, callinggo to from jackson, tennessee. Caller i am glad we are talking about this. Let me run a few quotes by you it is more important that innocent should be protected that guilt should be punished. John adams. Guest amen, ed. Caller what happened to blackstones ratio . It is an embarrassment. Presented evidence of felony should be admitted cautiously, for the law holds that 10 guilty persons escape rather than one Innocent Party suffer. Also, we wrote the bill of rights and we have more people locked up than any country in the world. It ruins all of these families. And to quote david kennedy, if you want to ruin a community, lock it up. We over criminalize everything. We have more children locked up. We have more children locked up for life that committed a crime as a juvenile than the rest of the world combined. Us the barll university the Bard University had debates and beat harvard university. Guest all the smart people are up early on cspan. Host every week. Guest i couldnt have said it better myself. I am grateful for your call and your learned approach to these issues. I wanted to share with you, as i was getting off the plane last night, coming in from kentucky it was a moment. The fair chance act had just been signed into law. Two big federal bills back to back, with the First Step Act and then the fair chance act. I ran into one of your fellow tennesseans, josh smith. He started what is called the fourth purpose he spent years in prison, got out, became an entrepreneur, and is now a millionaire. He is taking the money he made and is putting it to a greater purpose, which is ensuring that people behind bars and people with records have the same opportunities for prosperity and success that he has had. On thejust been in d. C. Hill, talking to our toughest tough on time tough on crime lawmakers. He said i want to meet with the toughest of the tough on crime lawmakers. Had some great meetings and was going all over the hill with prison fellowship, a wonderful partner of ours at the Justice Action Network. I was really grateful to have that conversation with him, with an individual who spent so many years in prison, who has seen so much excess. If i had just walked off the plane and had not known this man, i would have just thought this was just a businessman, a very successful businessman traveling back home, perhaps a lobbyist or lawyer. In fact, he had spent a lot of time in prison. I thought to myself, if there is one thing that i really hope for this country, it is that we remove the stigma of incarceration and understand that prisoners are humans. They are just like all of us. But for the grace of god, we would all we could all be there. We should not judge people by their worst moments. Got away, probably, from what ed was talking about since he was tennessee, i wanted to share that story. Just really grateful for people now looking into this issue not just from a human perspective from a smart data driven perspective. Host i have to bring this topic up governor matt bevin issued hundreds of pardons and commutations in kentucky, some of which have become a little controversial, including one that freed a man convicted of homicide whose brother held a fundraiser, a political fundraiser, for bevin. Where does that Justice Action Network stand on pardons and commutations from the executive power of governors of states, especially on their way out of office . Guest this is really difficult, because some of the and commutations issued were issued to people that i know personally. I am very proud of my friend, amanda hall, from eastern kentucky, who had been convicted of a drug offense but is such a wonderful person, great mom, great leader, now meets with policymakers across the political spectrum and does incredible work actually works with my good friend, the tough on crime lawmakers rob sanders, on responsible smart on crime reforms. What troubles me about this is and i will just speak as holly harris here, not as a spoke person of Justice Action Network. Wehink what is troubling is have to have everyone at the table. I think victims voices are incredibly important in this process. Victims voices, prosecutors voices. It has pained me to hear that who havethe families had old wounds opened back up through this process. Pardonsout judging the or the commutations one way or the other, i would just say it is important to have every voice at the table. And so many voices felt like they were not heard. And that, to me, is not a Sustainable Movement. That is what we are trying to create through the Justice Action Network, a Sustainable Movement that has everyone at the table. That is what it was important that it was bipartisan. It was not so that we would all feel good, reach across the aisle and feel good it was strategic, to ensure that regardless of who came to power, we always had a voice at the table. This has really been a challenge and a struggle. I am just hopeful that the people of kentucky and i am one of them i am hopeful we can come together and continue to move forward and be a National Leader in the criminal Justice Reform movement and that we have a movement where everyone is at the table and everyone is being heard. I think there are objections to the davis governors actions. Our senate and our speaker have still talked about the desire and need to move forward with that will pivot our torch treatment rather than incarcerating these people. It shows me that the Reform Movement is bigger than anyone person, bigger than anyone moment in time. This is really an american problem that affects every single american family. So i am hopeful we will continue to move forward and have everybody at the table. Host lets see if we can get a couple more callers in. Jeannie ann. Caller merry christmas, america. I like your name. Do you have a birthday this month . Guest it is actually december 17. Host happy belated. Caller happy birthday. I just want to say a couple of things. I think this is a society thing. My parents were married 65 years. Unruly teenager, they put me in uv for a week juvie for a week. And guess what . I found i like i did not like being in jail. Then i found out i had identity theft. The only way i could correct it was to go to where it was, get arrested, and put in jail. Through this experience, i learned about jail life. And in jail life, you have a illegals illegals, and get everything. Brandnew shoes, cases of water, and the Police Officers say you will feel so sorry for them, for the country they are from what about americans that are in there for identity theft, for something they did not do . And there is a culture. When these people go into jail, it is like old home week. They know everybody in there. It is like seeing their family again. What i do not like is do not see justice. You do not allow evidence to be put into a case, so how is that justice . St one thing i wanted to and there were a lot of issues there, but thank you again for your call. She mentioned that she spent a week in juvie. Certainly any of us, if we were exposed to that type of environment for a week, it could be a wakeup call. Unfortunately, in this country, we have so many unduly harsh penalties. That instead of spending a week, you have individuals like alice marie johnson, who was convicted of a first time, nonviolent drug offense, who ended up spending almost 22 years in prison, and it was only because of the president s actions that she is now free. Think about that. Two decades in prison for a first time nonviolent drug offense. I have spent considerable time with Alice Johnson he is a much better person than i am. Just a truly remarkable individual. I just thought to myself what a tragedy it is that we have so money people, just like her, who are still buried alive behind s because of these admittedly, wellintentioned laws we put in the books in the 1980s and 1990s to try to address the drug epidemic. And we now know it did not work. It did not make us any safer. Instead of turning out better citizens when these individuals are released, we are turning out instead of churning out better citizens, when these individuals are released, we are churning out that her criminals. We are not making communities safer. Spending a week in jail or prison, i think it could be a wakeup call for any of us. But when individuals convicted nonviolentw level, crimes are good people who make mistakes, and up the hind bars for decades, that and up end up behind bars for decades, that is a tragedy. We have to be better. Host lets go to joe in florida. Joe works in Law Enforcement. Caller good morning. Sergeant in a format representative of the court office of i want to ask about your perspective of private prisons. It essentially handcuffed judges. The hind that, we sought stop and frisk come in, and it was abused. I spoke to people in higher crime areas. They welcomed Police Visibility in those areas, but because it was abused, they had to cease their policy. Is reformve now leading to profitability. Prize it prisons host we will get guest amen, joe. The forprofit interest in our Justice System, to me, is the greatest challenge we face. I have said it over and over. I hail from the commonwealth of kentucky, where we moved away from forprofit prisons. There were so many terrible stories of awful things that happened in those prisons. Incarcerated individuals that work covered up. Andtes that were hungry which ultimately, according to many reports, lead to riots. Andprofit interests i do not call them private. As a conservative, we like privatization. And it is interesting an individual very close to me, i was trying to reconcile why we as conservatives really like privatization, privatization of government services, but why private prisons do not work. He said things that you only privatize things you want more of. We do not privatize things that we want less of. And if you want profit prisons are paid per diem. They have investors and are politically active. It is a real struggle when those facilities open up, because it is almost impossible to close them. I was really proud of our legislature, majority republican in the commonwealth of kentucky, because it included language in our previous budget that disallowed the administration to unilaterally reopen forprofit prison facilities without express legislative consent. I thought that really says something about the efficacy of these facilities. Your point is well taken. I actually think the forprofit interests in this space are our greatest challenge to moving forward with reform. I am hopeful other states will follow the commonwealth of kentuckys lead and ensure that these interests are not at the table, as we are discussing what is best or Public Safety. To thankwould like holly harris, executive director of the Justice Action Network for being with us today and this great conversation about sentencing and criminal Justice Reform. Thank you so much. Guest thank you so much, we are expecting the house in about five minutes, 11 55 eastern so they can wrap up the