As you know, government funding runs out on november 21, less than two weeks from now. We are currently under a stopgap spending bill. What are your thoughts about why congress has not been able to complete the needed spending legislation thus far . Sen. Leahy there are a number of reasons, but most importantly , just vote on it. The oldfashioned way. Chairmanhelby is the of the Senate Appropriations committee, and the vice chairman. Only one of three committees that has a vice chairman. We have met continuously. With boths week senator mcconnell and senator schumer. They said, leave it to us, we can get it done. We are having a meeting next week with our two counterparts, congresswoman lowy and congresswoman granger in the house to try to work it out. They do have questions of allocations and all. If it was left to us, if it was left to the memos of congress, republicans and democrats alike, before thet it done continuing resolution runs out. I think it would be a terrible mistake if we were still on a continuing resolution after the first of the year. I would rather we just come in, vote things up or down. It has been difficult with the white house because i am trying to think. They have not always been consistent in what they want. Past spending fights, it appears the president s border wall is what is really Holding Things up. There is disagreement with democrats wanting to spend zero dollars on the wall and Senate Republicans at the white houses the hest allocating 5 billion. What is the compromise you see on that issue . Sen. Leahy so much of it is almost fiction. Need thisent says we great, impenetrable wall, millions of dollars a mile. I saw this. 100can buy this for dollars. It is a batteryoperated saw at home depot and lowes. It cuts right through the wall. Being so hight it and we will have all this stuff at the top. Well, some people dont like heights. It will be a lot easier to take a few minutes to saw a whole and and go through. Everybody is in favor of a border,oater secure democrats and republicans alike. Spending hundreds of millions of dollars for a wall that will not protect us is like burning the great wall of china. President s the butasy and his campaign, everybody overlooks the fact that he gave his word that mexico would pay for it. Over and over again, he said mexico will pay for it. There is no way mexico was going to pay for it. So why dont we take some of the billions of dollars we already have for Border Security and put it to things that really work . Motion detectors. See members of congress from texas, for example, get very uncomfortable when you say we are going to have to take all ranchers thatese have had this land for generations, take it by Eminent Domain to build a wall that is not going to do anything. They would rather we have motion detectors and more patrols that cost less and are far more effective. I have tried to urge everybody, stop the sloganeering. Sit down. Have a vote for money that really protects our border. But i hate to see what the president has done. Ofhas got a couple billions dollars sitting there right now. He could not possibly spend it between now and the end of his term. Takehat they want to do is money out of housing for our military families, take money out of military schools where these children are going. Take money out of Cancer Research, and on and on, to put it into something that everybody, even the top experts, say will not make an awful lot of different. Why dont we sit down and find what really works . The money is there. It can be spent. I will give you one last example. Shutecall the president the government down for six ks because he did not have because he only had 1. 6 billion given to him i the republicancontrolled house, a republicancontrolled senate. When we reopened the negotiations, the four of us, we give him 1. 3 billion. In the meantime, you and i and all taxpayers lost aliens of dollars lost billions of dollars. We ended up being the laughingstock of the rest of the world. Get real legislation, be honest about what we are going to do. That is what we should do. Erica what are your thoughts on the court case dealing with the president taking funds that were appropriated by congress for other uses and put toward the wall making its way through the Circuit Court . Sen. Leahy i am watching it very closely. I am a lawyer. I know which way i would like to see the court rule, but i have no idea where it is going to go. Tried verynt has much to politicize the courts. I am hoping the courts will realize they are an independent notch of government and allow the executive or the legislative branch to tell them what to do. Is its you are having slogans, you are having rhetoric over reality. If it is a simple exercise, it would be one thing. But what it is doing is affecting families, Government Employees or nonGovernment Employees. It is hurting our economy. It is costing us billions of dollars that is not going to any security. We have to get off the sloganeering and sit down. I think senator shelby and i have demonstrated that we have put politics aside. All of our bills that have come to the floor have passed overwhelmingly. Votes. It is hard to get 80 votes in the u. S. Senate. We do it over and over again. It can be done. Reporter you are the longest tenured senator, and you are one of 15 who was around for the 1999 impeachment trial of president clinton. Senate had a lot of veteran members. It was partisan, but less partisan and polarized than it is now. In the event it appears likely there will be an impeachment trial in the senate, do you think the senate is up for it . Do you think the institution or will the institution devolve into partisanship and infighting and reflects poorly on itself . Vermonthy i go back to all the time and i find myself walking across the fields of our nearnear mont pilea montpelier. I go over the question in my head. Had president nixon not resigned, i would have been sitting on that impeachment trial. Let me tell you what happened in the clinton one. Andnt on the senate floor talked to a republican leader and tom daschle. Both legislators who cared about the senate, cared first and foremost about the senate. And i said, we have to have procedures. Why dont you bring the whole senate together in the Old Senate Chamber . There are no cameras. Just have us in there, close the doors, have us sit there, and argue about what should be done. They both agreed that was a good idea. They went from there to the Tv Press Gallery and announced that was what they were going to do. Some grumbled, but we went in and i heard the best debate i think i have heard in all my years in the senate. Republicans and democrats across the spectrum. We came out with a procedure. We voted on it 1000. We followed that. Not to haveitions different people testifying on the senate floor, which Newt Gingrich would have loved to have seen. We said, that is beneath the dignity of the senate. We had depositions. Doing waske designated for the republicans. I was designated for the democrats. And it worked. I would urge senators mcconnell and schumer to do the same. If you have got something that works, why not stick with it . Andrew are you optimistic that would happen that they might do that, and secondly that you will see the same kind of dynamic . To be honest, there are a lot more partisan members now. There is not a robert byrd or Edward Kennedy or ted stevens left anymore. Of are one of the few handful of oldtimers. Do you think the senate is up for it . [laughter] your point is valid. Think with this senate it will be more difficult. It has been less than that. Speaking as a democrat, i have seen Chuck Schumer try. Both discussions with senators schumer and mcconnell, i think there is a possibility. It is ironic. You hear more frank conversations just walking through the halls on the way to seat republicans and democrats talking to each other. A lot of both members of both parties would like to see us go back to that. A lot of members are disturbed i the senators who go out and announced, this is what must need to be done. Trump ishat president guilty of, President Trump is innocent. Lets just have facts. I want it to happen. Will it . I dont know. But if we dont do something similar to that, i think the senate is going to be damaged. Constitution will be damaged. I think the ability of our government to have real checks and balances is going to be damaged. I dont say that lightly. I say that from decades of experience. Greta senator, what do you think of senator grahams defense of the president . Sen. Leahy heat will make a defense he will make the defense. I was a defense attorney for years. If i had a juror say, i dont need to hear the evidence, i have made up my mind, i would not have to say a word because the judge would say, off. Bring in the next juror. Lets step back. Some of these people ought to go back and read the constitution. I think most senators have. I am not sure the president has. But look at why we have impeachment in the constitution. Especially a worry that our leaders might be influenced by a foreign power. Look at ukraine. There was a bipartisan effort to get money for ukraine to defend against russia. The Trump White House was willing to hold that money back. It helps russia, not the United States. Secondly, it helps the president stop people who might want to investigate him. Thatwas the sort of thing the founders of our constitution, hamilton and madison, all the others, thats what they wanted to protect against. Mistakeake a terrible as we keep ratcheting down the ability the u. S. Senate should be the conscience of the nation. He keeps ratcheting down. It keeps ratcheting down. If we allow the politicization of our courts, i worry for our country. Greta you sound like you have made up your mind, senator. Sen. Leahy no, i want to hear the facts. I think nancy pelosi did the right thing. She had a lot of political pressure to impeach. She said, lets get the facts. I want to hear what was in those closed meetings. I want to know why so many why the white house is trying to cover up so much by refusing to let people testify. Remember, in watergate it was not so much the crime as the coverup. And i would like to see why they are being told not to testify. Lets get these people out. You have had both democrats and republican members of the house, in both closeddoor hearings asking questions. Now, similar questions will be asked in public. I think we should do that. Erica do you believe that aid,olding of the ukraine when that happened by the office of management and budget, which was done by political appointees of the president , did that potentially violate the law in its south, the impoundment act, which limits the ability of the executive . Sen. Leahy if those are the facts, and they appear to be, yes, it does. Erica can you explain to viewers who may not know what you are referring to . Sen. Leahy you are not supposed to be withholding money that has been, among other things, appropriated, holding it back for political reasons or for reasons that might benefit those who are holding it back. That is an oversimplification, but that is basically what it is. Erica back to appropriations, if i may, and the question of the wall, understanding your arguments against the need for the wall. There a compromise that may emerge between the zero dollars the democrats want to spend, the 5 billion Trump Administration wants to spend, are you willing to spend more than zero dollars, are they willing to spend less than 5 billion . Sen. Leahy i dont know what they are willing to do. We compromised last time. They shut down the government because we gave them 1. 3 billion. I dont think the president really knows what is in the budget. I think he knows he gave his word that he is going to build a wall and mexico will pay for it. He keeps talking about, why dont i have my wall . Will hoping his supporters payings taxpayers, are for it, not mexico, and he was not telling the truth when he said mexico will pay for it. Know weaid that, we all have a need for a secure border. Every country does. , as i pointed out, you go down to home depot and buy a 100 electric saw, and in a matter of minutes cut your way through their long before anyone in the Border Control can get there, and you are through. Effective. Not but there are things we can do. The white house ought to work there are a lot of republicans and democrats willing to come together to put money into things that actually secure the border. More ensors, drones, a lot of places, and i have been there at the border, a lot of places our Border Patrol is stretched so thin. Instead of spending hundreds of billions of dollars, why dont we hire more Border Patrol agents who can be there . In vermont, i live an hours drive from the canadian border. Is there, but that is not a real problem for us. Obviously, a different dynamic. We dont have a lot of canadians who flaunt 2 who want to escape to the United States because we have better medical care and lower prices on prescription drugs. It is the other way around. Middle of are in the a president ial election, you probably noticed. [laughter] sen. Leahy thats what was in the paper this morning. Andrew unlike the situation that president obama confronted when he was elected and eventually had a filibusterproof senate and was able to do things essentially with mostly democratic supporters, even in the best of yournario that any candidates would not have a filibusterproof senate. The of them are suggesting senate should get rid of the legislative filibuster. What is your view of that . Sen. Leahy no, i agree with thomas jefferson. It is the saucer where things cool. What i want to see is us coming back to voting on things. Everyone is afraid to vote on anything. I voted over 16,000 times. There are 2000 senators and there are only two or three who have voted more than i have. I guarantee you, somebody wants to use some of those votes against me, go back through 16,000. What a mistake he made on that. So what . I was elected to vote. I took an oath to uphold the constitution. We had better get back to real debates and real votes. Most things that pass have been pretty overwhelming, as senator shelby and i have shown with appropriations. We have gotten through with bigger margins than they have for years. Over again over and a questionrs is not of the filibuster, but why dont we have votes on anything . I would like to vote things up or vote them down. We take money out of housing for our troops and Cancer Research and all that and put the money into the wall. Have a vote on that. Some people may say, no, we dont need Cancer Research, we need this wall and we should buy up all the Hardware Stores along the border so they cannot sell the 100 saws. Andrew if you retain the filibuster, as it sounds like you will sen. Leahy part of it. Andrew that will make it very difficult to do some of the items that the democratic electorate is really pressing for, like medicare for all or gun control or gun safety measures. Sen. Leahy if we brought up a real gun safety bill on the floor and had a vote up or down, which is what President Trump said he wanted us to do until the nra came down and said, no, we cannot allow you to do that, and he said, ok. If we have one straight up or down and it passed, it would not be a filibuster question. It passed. American people see how you voted. Here is the thing. It is so easy to go out and give a speech. I am all for those. I am for this great bill. Will you vote for it . Have real votes. I am proud of my voting record. I go back through 16000 and say i should have had an extra cup of coffee that day. What was i thinking . Of course. But i am proud of voting and i am proud of how i vote. Greta we have a couple minutes left. Erica the house looks like it is on track to be voting on articles of impeachment sometime in december. At the same time, there is discussion that the next stopgap spending bill will go through middecember at some point. Can you explain how it is going to be possible to compromise on appropriations legislation in the middle of Impeachment Vote . Sen. Leahy i think we can chew gum and walk at the same time. We did a lot of things during the clinton impeachment. Have stats. We can get things done. And we will have to what i think is a critical meeting next week with senator shelby, congresswoman lowy, and congresswoman granger, and myself. I think it will give us a path forward. To gok the big mistake, to the base of your question, it would be a big mistake if we dont get these things done before christmas. If we go to a continuing resolution into next spring, for example, then you are so much in the president ial election. A lot of that is just going to continue that way. It is going to be a lot of our social programs hurt badly, a lot of our defense programs are going to be hurt hadley. Hurt badly. It brings conservatives and liberals and moderates together. I think it can be done. I sure hope it can. Greta , senator patrick lakey, thank you for being this weeks newsmaker. Greta lets talk about the timelines for the key issues we discussed with the senator. Andrew taylor, lets begin with impeachment. What comes next . We have these open hearings coming up this week. How does it look like for the following weeks . Andrew Speaker Pelosi is she isming very not tipping her hand. There is a general expectation that they want to do things and a logical ending date would be just before the holidays. If that were to be the case, the Senate Impeachment trial might start in january. I think there would be a lot of pressure to keep the impeachment trial relatively brief. Remember, during the clinton trial, that was before the era of iphones. People would rather be doing other portions of their jobs. I think the impeachment trial in the senate maybe relatively brief, but as senator lakey discussed, senator leahy discussed, there is no guarantee there will be a bipartisan agreement to do it. I think there will be a lot of pressure to do so, but as we discussed it is a far different place, so we will just have to see. Greta what does it look like in the senate when the trial begins . What are we talking about . Erica as andy was just referencing, it is going to be a very unusual scene for the senate because senators who love to speak will be required to sit in their chairs for six hours a day. The chief justice will be not the senators, not senator mcconnell, will be the one to issue rulings and guiding the proceedings along. As was discussed with senator believee is one of 15 i who have been through this before. It will be a very unusual experience for the vast majority of the senate, and it will be interesting and kind of unpredictable to see how it plays out. Greta what are the two of you hearing from senators about this impeachment, the trial they are facing, coming their way in weeks . Andrew on the case of most of the republicans, they are trying to not really say a lot, to be honest. Inhink some of them are terrible political positions, because there is this dynamic if you are running statewide where you have to hold onto your political base, which if you are a republican, there are strong supporters of trump. But you also have to get middleoftheroad voters. Anything they say or if they take a side, it is going to irritate one of those groups. They are in a very difficult position. On the part of democrats, i think they view impeachment as likely to pass the house, but that they view that President Trump will likely be acquitted by the senate. If that is going to be the case, i dont know what kind of appetite there is to draw it out. Said senator mcconnell earlier this week that if the vote were held today the outcome would be an acquittal and that the question was really how long the process would take while there are many Democratic Senators who would rather be in New Hampshire and iola campaigning for the president ial elections. Pressure to to the keep the proceedings relatively brief. Greta the senator talked about his meeting coming up this week with his counterparts on the house side for the spending bills. Isl us why he thinks this such an important meeting, and what comes after. Erica as we discussed, government funding runs out on november 21, less than two weeks from now. And i do think this meeting that it is going to be on tuesday afternoon with the top appropriators will be important. Number one, helping us understand what the next stopgap spending bill will look like, duration. Ion its it is inevitable there will be another stopgap spending bill. There is a question whether it goes to mid december, which is where it is heading, but still the possibility it could be into january or february. More likely february, potentially. That could be decided. And also, once the compromise what the compromise is going to look like on the wall that the senator was reluctant to directly answer that question. I am not sure and answer exists at this point in time, but that will be a start in getting there. Sen. Leahy one of the things andrew one of the things about all this is people like senator lakey is used to things working better. He gets into a room with people who are very pragmatic and they can be reasonable with each other and find an agreement. Outside of that room things are far more partisan. It is difficult, particularly when it is time to do something that is not exactly to President Trump liking, to get republicans to commit to it. It canat moment arrives, go smoothly, or you can shut the government down for 35 days. Greta are there any rumblings that it could happen again . Andrew not this time. I doubt there is much appetite for it, but with President Trump you cannot predict anything 100 . Greta andrew taylor, erica werner, thank you both for being part of newsmakers. Appreciate it. Erica thank you. Andrew thank you. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer follow the house impeachment inquiry and the administrations response on cspan. Unfiltered coverage on tv, our radio app, and online. Watching reairs on cspan, or stream online at cspan. Org impeachment. The house will be in order. 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