You wrote for the washington post. White house on the brink of its first foreignpolicy crisis, and you write, striking the balance between the threats and offering a radiance a way out is a challenge before the administration now. One possibility might be to propose that the french host a meeting between the parties of their ran nuclear deal with the aim of discussing the Iranian Nuclear program and dangers. How likely is that . Guest i think right now it is probably not that likely. The iranians feel that there policy of maximum pressure on us in response to maximum pressure we are putting on them is working. They dont feel they are isolated internationally. They are paying a price economically, but they are putting a lot of pressure on americas friends and interests in the region. Their expectation is that at some point we will back down. I dont think the administration is likely to back down now. That creates a dangerous situation. It creates the possibility for miscalculation. The idea that maybe you can bring back all the parties that negotiated to jcpoa who dont , andto see an escalation they could create an environment where the iranians feel we dont want to alienate those that were part of the area in nuclear deal, and the president might want to show he has a way out of what is now a stalemate with the iranians. Host i wonder as you mentioned political miscalculation based on what we have seen so far and what is ahead with regards to impeachment. Guest there is no doubt that creates a climate that everyone sees international. The iranians may conclude this is the time to put more pressure on the president because there is a kind of distraction. That could be dangerous because he might feel he does not have a lot to lose. I come back to the fact that take place not because of your side wants them but because there is a miscalculation. I think this is dangerous because of that. Host at the u. N. This past week, here is the president on iran. [video clip] implemented severe economic sanctions on the country, hoping to free itself from sanctions, itsregime has escalated violent and unprovoked aggression. In response to irans recent attack on saudi arabia, we just imposed the highest level of sanctions on Irans Central Bank and sovereign wealth fund. All nations have a duty to act. No responsible government should. Ubsidize irans bloodlust menacings irans behavior continues, sanctions will not be lifted. They will be tightened. Have turnedrs will a proud nation into just another cautionary tale of what happens when a ruling class abandons its people and embarks on a crusade for personal power and riches. That was at the u. N. General assembly this past week. Guest what is interesting about it, in response to what was an unprecedented attack, meaning iran launched a direct attack against the most important saudi , we note the cruise missiles and the drones came from iranian territory. The fragments that were recovered were unmistakably made by iranians. They crossed the threshold of doing something more direct. Is clearly going to be more sanctions. One of the things that adds to the danger is iranians are increasingly feeling emboldened. They are less fearful of us. My risk is they will feel they can do more than the reality suggests. At some point they will cross a response. Provokes the a response. Host do you think saudi arabia today is their ran of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. Hah was a desperate, but he was allied with the United States. With the human rights issues in saudi arabia, we seem to be turning a blind eye to that because of the role saudi arabia is playing to counterbalance iran. Is that the narrative . Guest it is an interesting one. Saw himself as a modernizer. Clearly the crown prince sees himself as a modernizer. The crown Prince Building legitimacy on the basis of nationalism and taking steps where he is liberalizing what have been the social restrictions within saudi arabia, he has a lot of public support. A lot of indications for people who have gone there, and the internal polling suggests 70 of the country under the age of 30 feel he is opening the country for them. He has public support. Host where does the death of Jamal Khashoggi fit into that . Guest i was there last year. I was out in the gulf a couple of times. A month after the death of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, i found a lot of saudis who were very uneasy about this. A month later, i found them reacting to what they thought was unfair pressure from the international community. , somehow thatce has produced a strong sense of nationalism so that when there is pressure from the outside, it creates a backlash against it. Ironically at this point, he has probably retained his popularity domestically, and that is the reality of it you have to take into account. Host also at the u. N. This past week, their rainy and president rouhani the iranian president rouhani. You will hear him through a translator. [video clip] we negotiated with the incumbent u. S. Government on the five plus one negotiating table. Ever, the failed to honor they failed to honor the commitment made by their predecessor. On behalf of my nation and state, i would like to announce that our response to any negotiation under sanctions is negative. The government and people of iran have remained steadfast against the harshest sanctions in the past one and a half years and will never negotiate with an iran that seeks to make surrender with the weapon of poverty, pressure, and sanctions. If you require a positive answer, and is declared by the leader of the islamic revolution, the only way for talks to begin is to return to andmitments compliance. If you are sensitive to the name of jcpoa, then you can return to by themework and abide United NationsSecurity Council resolution 2231. Host as you hear from the iranian president , one of the core issues is the economy in that country. What does it look like today . Guest the economic sanctions have been crippling. There is no question. The value of the currency has declined by two thirds. Think of what that means. If you have a savings account, it is worth two thirds less. Prices on everything have escalated dramatically. Unemployment is going up. Fundnternational monetary before sanctions going back to 2018 had projected a 4 growth rate in iran. Today they are projecting a 6 decline in the economy. Whether you are talking about production, unemployment, escalating costs of food and medicine, across the board the iranians are paying a severe economic price from the sanctions. Uhani was saying if the administration wants to negotiate, they will have to lift the sanctions. Their approach to their maximum Pressure Campaign is to put enough pressure on our allies, friends, and interests, including the price of oil, to force the administration to withdraw the sanctions. It doesnt seem to have an answer to what the iranians are doing in the region. Host our guest is ambassador dennis ross. He served in the obama administration. He is the coauthor of the book be strong. We will get into the book in just a moment. Kathleen is joining us on the democrats line. Good morning. Pathetic thatit this is what iran got for signing up under the p5 plus 1. We know that netanyahu spoke in front of congress to try to get them to vote against the iran deal. Netanyahu has been essentially conspiring with trump to get him to pull out of the p5 plus 1. This is what iran got, sanctions for signing the deal. Iran signed a nonproliferation treaty. And has hadeapons weapons for decades and has refused to sign a nonproliferation treaty. They do not have international inspections. Who haso ask dennis, been a lobbyist for israel for decades and should have to sign under the foreign agents registration act, what do you think about netanyahus efforts to undermine the iran deal and successfully to have done so with trump . I want cspan to have hillary mann on, who are far more temperate, and i encourage the public to go read what hillary mann wrote. About, what do you think netanyahus influence . Host thank you. We have featured those authors on cspan2 on booktv. Guest the premise of the question that i am that i represent israel is wrong. If you read this book, one of the things i am emphasizing is that israel has some very make. L choices to if it does not stop building outside of the settlement blocs, it is going to be one state for two people. Host we see israel fast approaching one of those hinge points in history where a decision is needed to preserve the countrys character. Israels separation from palestinians may be more about divorce than peace. Guest the key thing to understand is that the reason israel is facing a choice is not because two states is available anytime soon. The palestinians are divided between the west bank and gaza. Secession is looming on the with abad 84ide years old. Not have an impulse towards greater accommodation. Two states is not available anytime soon. If israel keeps building outside of the settlement blocs. The vast majority of israeli rs live close to the green line. Building there is consistent with a twostate outcome. We came up with the concept of the blocs. If you build outside of their, you are building inside of what would be a palestinian state. There are now 184,000 israelis who live outside of the blocs. If you want to preserve two states for when it is possible somewhere down the road, you have to stop building outside of the blocs now. If you keep building, you are creating a strategic choice. What this book is about, looking historically at leaders who are prepared to make big decisions, say this is a looming decision. It is one that has strategic consequences. It is hard politically because of the weight of the Settler Movement in israel. Leaders courage and a who is prepared to explain the stakes. It takes looking at the past when leaders were not reluctant to take the decisions. Where they put the state first and not political interest first. That is what the book is about. Let me begin with one of those leaders, the founding father of the state of israel, David Bengurion. From his goalted of jewish sovereignty. Democratic values were no less indispensable, believing a jewish state must be rooted in universal values worthy of that effort. Guest David Bengurion understood that the state of israel was ending 2000 years of homelessness and was living in a region where there was basically rejection of israel. It was important for israel to reflect a certain moral standing. From his standpoint, it was a country that had to live up to a with avalues and allied set of nations. And that was important as he sought it. Good morning. I have a compound question. Al jazeera reported last night that there was a possible incursion into saudi arabia by the houthi brothers. Saudi forces. Red i am wondering whether or not you would believe that this of theirwith the help forces and whether this could lead to the tail wagging the dog situation. Host thank you. Guest i guess there are two points that are implicit in your question. Place . H an attack take were saudi forces captured . The saudis are not saying anything. Out that theyt didnt breach saudi territory and capture a number of saudi forces. Kuts forces have been responsible for funding and training and arming the houthis. We will have to see whether or not this turns out to be true. We have one side of the story so far. We dont have the other side yet. We will have to see. As for the tail wagging the dog, the implication that that could draw the u. S. Into greater projection of force. One thing that is clear about President Trump, he does not want to get into a war there. There is a certain continuity from that standpoint. Said i wasbama elected to get us out of middle east wars. President trump talks about endless wars in the middle east. It is clear that his desire not war, sucholved in a that we might provide limited defensive capability can but it does not appear that this president is keen on being drawn into a conflict. With the passing of ambassador wilson, how big of a deal do you think history will view george w. Bushs decision to invade iraq in 2003 . Guest this is one of those cases that will be studied historically. In a lot of ways it was a turning point in the middle east. There was a perception that you could never remove these strongmen. Obviously the United States did from the outside, although it also unleashed all sorts of forces within the middle east. In some ways you can look at awakening,he air of harak,moval of mub these strong authoritarian leaders could be removed. At the same time we see also to forces unleashed threat the region. At,ink iraq will be looked the decisionmaking process will be evaluated again. The consequences for the region will be looked at. In a lot of ways, it is interesting that there has not been a serious Lessons Learned study of iraq. I think it is long overdue. In a sense, those who were aainst the war view it as lesson that you should never be involved in a war in the middle east. Those who were in favor of it continue to believe that removing Saddam Hussein is something that was important, and taking a look in making a deeper judgment about what were the consequences of this . What were the costs . Were there any gains . Somewhere down the road, we will see a serious study done on iraq. We are still feeling many of those implications. Host the second Prime Minister you profile, you wrote, temperaments temperamentally he was a melodrama inclined former commander of the jewish underground while jimmy carter was a reserved peanut farmer. Carter took lewiss advice at the beginning. Guest he did in the beginning. In, theirr came initial meeting at the white house was a very bad one. The administration at the time did not think about what the impact that might have politically with israel might be. In some ways easier for his rival to get elected. Carter was horrified at first when he was elected, but when he met him for the first time, he viewed him as a man of principle and felt maybe you would be possible to do things with him. Luisnk the advice from san running up to that first meeting ledin the aftermath of it to lets go more with honey than vinegar. Later on there was more of an application of vinegar. In the end you had camp david. There is no question that the hero of camp david is jimmy carter. Shapes thene who approach. He determines that you cannot focus only on the palestinians. You have to get the egyptian israeli peace treaty done at the same time. He sees the potential of working with him. Withdraw 100 from the autonomy butsue leave the question of meant that heen was Parting Company with his own pace, with the people who were closest to him, who had been his comrades in the jewish underground. He was called a traitor by them. Knesset a speech to the where he says we will not become rhodesia. Ways, they were not natural partners. And yet you can also take a look he did come it took great courage to take on his own closest comrades. It is not simple for someone like him to be called a betrayer. In his eyes he felt it was essential for the state to make these choices. Ambassador dennis ross. Nick is joining us on the republican line from north carolina. Good morning. Irst of all, i have to say think President Trump is the best president we have ever had. I think he is getting a lot of bad play by the democrats that seem like they do nothing. They are doing nothing in the congress. I would like to know why they have got a job there. That you are hearing sentiment from trump supporters. Guest this country is highly polarized right now. Space prettymp much believes in whatever he says. Now, im sure you could have someone from a democratic line who would say this is a president who does not feel limited by the law, and they would view him as a threat. On the one hand you have those who feel that anything President Trump says is right, and you have those who feel that whatever he says is wrong. Fors a political appointee two republican president s and two democratic president s. There was a time when you could work on the hill across party lines. It would be nice to see Something Like that take place again. Let me turn to the opinion page of the washington post. The president is destroying the diplomatic corps. Guest i am disappointed that you had our ambassador to the ukraine pulled out. It was a longstanding diplomatic officer. Seemingly pulled out because she was not prepared to be responsive to the efforts to get the ukrainians to launch an investigation designed to hurt the bidens. You have people who are put in these positions, and their first responsibility is to serve the country and not to politicize Foreign Policy. When i talked to minute ago about we had a time when we were not so polarized, when there was more of a commitment to keeping politics stopping at the waters edge, and to go ahead and politicize the Foreign Policy for the benefit of the president and to penalize someone who is doing their job, i think that is a source of concern. President s are entitled to have their investors in place who will implement their policies can but President Trumps willingness to disparage her in a conversation with a Foreign Government should not be underestimated. Allowing this to stand would not only have a Chilling Effect on the entire diplomatic corps, but undermine u. S. Diplomatic policy broadly. Guest i agree with that sentiment. I am quite worried that if the Foreign Policy of the United States is going to be conducted always through a narrow personal and political lens, in the end it is going to become a Foreign Policy that is basically destructive. If the people who are in the Foreign Service or Civil Service who serve, if they feel they toe to tailor what they do serve the personal political interests of the president , almost by definition, you are going to undercut the ability to carry out Foreign Policy that is driven by a set of rules, driven by a set of laws and values. In the long term, that is not healthy for the United States. Host we will go to kansas city. Greg, your arms ambassador ross. Caller good morning. Perception, he listened to what israel wanted. He was never viewed as a trusted world figure. Draftped with yourself to aipac speech. 008 he is not the only person who youreen critical of impartiality when it comes to issues related to israel and the middle east. Also aaron david miller, a former veteran middle east thatmat has also expressed criticism. Host we will get a response. Guest you cannot work on the israelipalestinian issue and please everybody. I can tell you when i was our what you are doing as a mediator, and you are not going to be effective unless you recognize and understand the needs of each side. If you are going to take criticism, it is not surprising. It goes with the territory. If you are afraid to take criticism, dont get involved. I am a big believer that if you try to get anything done, youre going to get criticized. Criticism is not the measure of whether you are doing what you should be doing. Host you wrote the book because . Guest we are worried that israel is headed on a path where if it continues to build outside of the settlement blocs, it will become one state for two peoples. That is a prescription for enduring conflict. Inevitably the palestinians will say that means one person one vote. In a positionel where it even loses its Jewish Democratic character or its democratic character. Either everybody is treated the in which caselaw, it will be a democratic state, but it will not be a jewish state. If it denies democratic rights, then it loses its character as a democratic state. The whole idea was to say, can we draw from the past examples of guidance and inspiration of israeli leaders who faced up to the hard choices that they were confronting. Of that be a source inspiration for israeli leaders today . What could the United States due to help israeli leaders . Host a lot of questions about the current Prime Minister. Can Benjamin Netanyahu form a new government, will he remain the Prime Minister . Guest i think it will be very difficult for him to form a new government. I think there has been already news that he has been given the mandate, but he might give it back to the present. The Sticking Point for blue white is having been yahoo remain as Prime Minister. Votedf their voters because they wanted him to no longer be Prime Minister. You have up to three months to try to form the new government. Is that at one minute to midnight, a deal will be forged to avoid a third election. Nobody wants a third election in israel. Expectute to midnight, i we will see a deal worked out where there will be a National Unity government. Whether netanyahu will remain Prime Minister remains to be seen. He is facing hearings. That will determine whether the attorney general goes ahead. That hearing and its aftermath and the decision the attorney general makes is likely to affect the government formation process. It will likely determine his future. Host our guest is dennis ross. Ambiguity,hated which is the stuff of diplomacy. She did little to encourage affection. His integrity and analytical brilliance were awesome, and he was honest to a fault. That is Henry Kissingers description of him. The last part, honest to a fault was me. Rabin was not only a person who could not lie, he did not like himself. He was the only leader i ever worked with who was prepared to say when he was wrong that he was wrong, and he would say if we had a debate on something and i have made an argument, later on he would say if he was wrong, you are right. That is not something i have experienced very often with leaders. Host republican line, good morning. Caller good morning. Since you and your guest brought up the khashoggi instead it. Best incident. We watched the surveillance where to show the and his fiancee were walking down, and he was going to meet her for lunch, and then he goes into the embassy. All of these 17 men go in with suitcases, and a pathologist. The whole thing was a hollywood production. He never comes out. What happens is i think the prince was set up because the religious leaders in the country did not want him to modernize because he mentioned having women driving, going to the movies, sporting events. That a the news it said driving instructor who was there to help the women was murdered because of that fact. All of this was done to destroy the prince. Host thank you. To look tend not to try at these kinds of events through a conspiratorial lens. I think this was not done by the religious establishment. It is true that there are those who are resisting the social changes the crown prince is engineering. I think he had a policy of trying to coerce dissidents into coming back. He said he did not give the order. What is interesting host he said it did come under his watch. Guest in this interview, he said it came under his watch, therefore he was responsible. It would be good if he were more explicit in terms of saying, if i did not give the orders, he shouldve of said my orders were not clear enough. I replaced the people. I changed the policy. I have overhauled this. We have learned a lesson. It would be good to see him come out and say that. I think it is positive that he said it happened on my watch, and i am responsible. It is difficult i think for the rest of the world to accept that things are really going to change unless they see that assumption of responsibility, unless they see Greater Transparency with the trials that are taking place. He is a modernizer. He is changing the country. I had a palestinian friend of is they, this emancipation of women in saudi arabia. This is a big story. It gets drowned out because of the khashoggi murder. The narrative of what he is trying to do, it is very important for him to be very explicit in terms of not only assuming the responsibility, but explaining what happened and making it clear the Lessons Learned and the sobering effect of that. Host have you ever had interactions with the crown prince . Guest yes i have. What i just said to you, i have said to him. Host as a person . Guest he is very smart and committed to transforming his country. Countryves that their needs to be transformed, that for the longterm survival and wellbeing of the country, they have to diversify their economy and get away from exclusive dependence on oil. They have to become a digitally based society. He understands all of that. He does face resistance. Because of resistance within the religious establishment and parts of the family, he sees himself as carrying out a revolution from above. It is largely popular right now in saudi arabia. He will also have to deliver the goods. They have made some hard decisions internally with regard the socialzing andities of saudi arabia they have imposed austerity measures. The public will expect at some point delivery of the goods. Host i want to follow up because there is a lot of question in terms of the secrecy of the president s relationship with the crown prince. What is behind that . Is there any connection between that and what we are learning about his conversations with ukraine . We dont know. When everything is secret, you cannot be sure what is in it. There is obviously a pattern President Trump has where he says lots of things. In the case of ukraine, there is no question he has asked the ukrainian president for a favor, and then he gets into giuliani and the bidens. I dont know what he would have said to the crown prince. Leadersue that other wont want what they have said in phone calls to be exposed. , a legitimatecern diplomatic concern, but also at a time when there are basic questions being raised about what the president is saying to other foreign leaders in terms of it falling outside of the bounds of what is acceptable, it is not a surprise that questions are being raised now about the other phone calls and whether the contents of those should be revealed. Spies,re these people the people that are on the calls . That is what the president is saying. Guest no. I worked in five different administrations. Fors a political appointee Ronald Reagan and george h. W. And, president Clinton Barack obama. I felte was one thing was consistent, even if i disagreed, the intentions that motivated them were positive. They were trying to serve this country. Those who were working within the intelligence community, they are doing what they think is best in terms of the interests of the country. You can disagree with them, but their values, motives, intentions. With carl, youre on investor dennis ross. Caller thank you. I have four questions for you. First question, who is the u. S. Ambassador to saudi arabia right now . My second question, what is the actual job of Jared Kushner . As a concerned citizen, im afraid the relationship between tin, aret trump and pu you concerned that he will want weaken nato, giving putin the ammunition he will need . Whys it so hard to get anybody involved with President Trump to come to congress and testify without the socalled residential privilege . Privilege . Tial what are we into now . Host im going to stop you there because we are short on time. Guest i will try to answer several of those. I will not get through all of them. Let me start with the last one. It is a legitimate question to ask about what falls within the bounds of executive privilege. Understand, every administration tries to regard the prerogatives of the executive branch. And the executive branch each have their own responsibilities. Typically most american president s will try to resist the congress from imposing on their prerogative to conduct Foreign Policy. The president has a responsibility to do that. The question of executive whereege becomes one of are you intruding on the president s ability to conduct his affairs. The tension is between being able to conduct your affairs on the one hand but also trying to hide what is inappropriate behavior. Onhink the balance has to be at least allowing the congress to do its job without making it impossible for the president to do his. When someone who is not part of coreyministration like lewandowski claims executive privilege, that makes no sense because he was never part of the government. Claimiuliani might lawyerclient relations, but he is not a member of the administration. Executive privilege would not apply to him. Allowing people from within the administration to testify if it is compromising the ability to conduct Foreign Policy might be one thing, but if it is just designed to prevent disclosure, that is something else. Host the caller also brought up Jared Kushner. He seems to have an expansive role in the administration, particularly on the middle east. He seems to be responsible for preparing a peace plan for the region. The economic components of that plan. We were told before the israeli election that that would be unveiled. Well have to see because it is unclear. Say up until now, the administration was speaking with Prime Minister netanyahu. The fact that you may have a different Prime Minister or different government has led the administration with Jason Greenblatt who works with Jared Kushner to go to israel and , the head benny gantz of the Blue White Party who may emerge as Prime Minister. There is uncertainty on whether that plan will be presented at all. I think that is an open question. Clearly been one of the major areas of Jared Kushners responsibility. The last Prime Minister you profiled, ariel sharon. Contrast,im a man of incredible personal discipline. He could never discipline his eating habits. He was the driving force behind building israeli settlements who actually dismantled settlements in the sinai. Sharon was a complex man who went through an interesting evolution. He was the driving force behind building the settlements. Created the grid in 1977 that israel has followed in terms of developing the settlements. He was not driven by ideology. He was driven by security. Talking about the solitude of the leader, what he meant is when you make a decision, it is all on you. You dont try to do for it. You face up to that. You face it alone. He put the state first when he gives his speech to the knesset explaining his decision to withdraw from gaza. Is the hardestat thing he had to do, much different from sending soldiers into battle and knowing that some of them would not return. Was, henful as that there, but heers had to put the state first. They all look at leadership the same way. They all saw their responsibility as Prime Minister the same way. They put the state first and politics second. Leaders now urging to follow the example of these predecessors. They were not perfect men, but when push came to shove, they always put the state first. Strong and of good cspans washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. 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