[background noise] [gavel] committeese judiciary will come to order. Without objection the chair is authorized to declare recesses at any time. We welcome everyone to this mornings hearing on protecting america from assault weapons. I will now recognize myself with an Opening Statement. Assault weapons have been repeatedly used of weapons of deadly violence on our citizens. In just the last two years, las vegas, parkland, pittsburgh, poway, midland and odessa have seen Mass Shootings at the hands of a gunman with assault weapons. Last month we added el paso and dayton to the list of communities shattered by Mass Violence perpetrated by a gunman old with armed with assault weapons. Todays hearing is about whether america will tolerate weapons of war in our streets and in our neighborhood. Simply put civilian assault , weapons are just semi automatic versions of military weapons. Have passed bans on assault weapons, these have been proven too easy to evade. This is one reason i support a national ban on assault weapons. For example, despite californias ban on assault weapons, a man was able to drive across the border into nevada to buy an assault weapon. A 75 round high capacity magazine, plus five 40 round magazines and used this to kill three people and wound 17 others in a matter of minutes at the gilroy garden festival. A gunmans intent on killing whether the target is one person or many can hop over state lines and return to kill others. We must examine this dangerous problem and how to address it. In 1994 the assault weapons ban which expired in 2004 was a watershed event that offers a guide for today. Looking at the effectiveness of that law, they have shown mass shooting fatalities were 70 less likely to occur compared to the periods before and after the ban. Another study found that the assault weapons ban was associated with a 25 drop in gun massacres and a 40 drop in fatalities. The ban however was not without its shortcomings. During the ban, the gun industry, as usual putting profits over morality, boosted boasted of its ability to modify assault weapons that were technically legal. Lighting one ak47 clone, in gun magazine wrote in spite of the assault weapons bans im sorry in spite of Assault Rifle bans, bans of high capacity magazines, the ranting s of the antigun media and the rifles of apolitical incorrectness, the kalashnikov has flourished. Today theres probably more models and accessories to choose from than ever before. Closed quote. Thus boasting about how to evade the law, a law intended to protect human lives. As we consider how best to address the problem of assault weapons, we must examine the loopholes in the 1994 law that weakened its effectiveness. Although the lethal impact of assault weapons is highly evident in shootings, they present a far broader problems. These weapons pose a daily threat to our communities. Whether or not they are used in particular times to cause mass casualties or make national news. They hold a particular appeal to criminals who can wield terror without them even without causing loss of life on a wide scale. For too long, the response in congress to the daily toll of gun violence in our streets and our schools and in places of worship has been moments of silence. Thats changed. Earlier this year, this committed reported committee reported and the house passed legislation to expand and improve our background checks system. This committee recently approved bills to establish systems for extreme Risk Protection orders, ban large capacity magazines, and prohibit individuals convicted of hate crime misdemeanor from possessing firearms. You will soon discover whether Republican Leadership in the senate is still in abject fealty to the gun manufacturers why not when they consider this legislation. Todays hearing continues the important task of addressing our Shameful National problem of gun violence. Today, well discuss assault weapons and examine options for dealing with these particularly dangerous weapons of war. And tomorrow, our subcommittee on crime terrorism and Homeland Security will conduct a hearing concerning Community Responses to gun violence in our cities. We must take a comprehensive approach to solving the National Crisis of gun violence. An issue that for too long has been ignored by national leaders. We know the American People want us to examine the facts and to find solutions. And this hearing is an important step towards that goal. I would like to recognize the survivors and advocates here today, including those from newton, parkland, march for our lives, and moms demand action. I thank you for your tireless advocacy. You inspire us all. I thank our witnesses for appearing today, and i look forward to their testimony. I understand that the Ranking Member is on his way. Well proceed to witness testimony at this time, and i will recognize the Ranking Member for his Opening Statement when he arrives. Without objection, all other Opening Statements will be included in the record. I will now introduce todays witnesses. The honorable nan whaley is the mayor of dayton, ohio. Since the mass shooting mayor , whaley has been a leading advocate for gun safety legislation. Before joining city government, mayor whaley served on the montgomery board of elections and as a deputy to the Montgomery County auditor. She received our b. A. From the university of dayton and mpa from wright state university. O tovaris is a surgeon at el paso. After the mass shooting at a walmart in el paso, the doctor treated victims of the shooting. He received his md from the university of texas school of medicine at san antonio. Dr. Rochelle bractney is the chief of police in charlottesville, virginia. Previously she served for 30 years with the Pittsburgh Bureau of police. She was the first africanamerican woman to oversee a special operations division. She received her b. A. And m. A. From Carnegie Mellon university and phd from Robert Morris university. She is a graduate of the stillal fbi come now national fbi academy in virginia. This next guest, served with the consumers union. Mrs. Randall received a b. A. From university of Southern California and jd from George Washington university. Amy swearer is a senior legal policy analyst in the center for judicial studies at the heritage foundation. Previously she held positions with the Charles Koch Institute and the lancaster nebraska public defenders office. She received or bachelor of science in criminal justice and her jd from the university of nebraska. Diana muller is the founder of the Grass Roots Initiative to bring one woman from every state to washington, dc to meet with legislators on behalf of gun owners. She is also the cohost of shooting gallery on the outdoor channel. Previously she served for 22 years in the tulsa police department. She received a bachelor of science in criminal justice and psychology from the university of central missouri. David chipman is a senior policy advisor at gibbons law center and is a member of the Firearms Committee of the International Association of chiefs of police. Prior to assuming his current positions he served for 25 years , as a special agent for the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives. Mr. Chipman received his b. A. From American University and his masters in management from Johns Hopkins university. We welcome all our distinguished witnesses, and we thank them for participating in todays hearing. Now if youd please rise, ill begin by swearing you in. Raise your right hand. What happened . [laughter] do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony youre about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information and belief, so help you god . You may a seated and thank you. Let the record show the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Please note that each of your written statements will be entered into the record in its entirety. Accordingly i ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. To help you stay within that time, there is a timing light on your table. When the light switches from green to yellow, you have one minute to conclude your testimony. When the light turns red, your five minutes have expired. People hopped between bars and restaurants as last call approached. Others waited in line at a popular taco truck for a late night snack. But that all changed in an instant. A. M. , a young man armed with an ar15 pistol variant walked down an alley between two bars and began spraying high velocity rounds into the crowd. He then turned down a crowded street as people tried to run for safety. Friends pulled each other into doorways to try to escape falling bullets. One man threw his girlfriend to the ground and covered her body with his own. People literally ran out of their shoes. Less than a minute later, nine people were dead, and 17 others had been shot. Dozens more were injured in the commotion. 32 seconds. In just 32 seconds, 26 people had been shot, nine families had lost loved ones, and dozens more will never be the same. The entire incident was over in half as much time as ive been speaking to you so far today. In those 32 seconds, the shooters weapon did exactly what it was designed to do, kill or injure as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time. It was a weapon designed to inflict maximum damage to human beings. It left a trail of destruction not on some foreign battlefield, but down a Historic Brick street in dayton, ohio. I visited the crime scene the morning after the shooting. The thing i remember most clearly is the smell of bleach. A street sweeper was being used to try to clean the road, and men in hazmat suits were scrubbing the sidewalks. The meat still sat on the grill of the taco truck. Little yellow placards showing where all it casings were found bullet casings were found looked like they had been scattered without thought. I was in a place that was both completely familiar and completely foreign. The shooting occurred nearly two months ago, but our sidewalks are still stained after numerous power washes. Many buildings and street signs still have bullet holes in them. And these are just the physical scars left by the shooting. Young people who were in the district that night talk about their new fear of crowds. The bartenders in the neighborhood are consumed with anxiety at the sound of sirens. Neighbors dread the sound of fireworks after being awakened by gunfire. Our whole city is hurting. All because a young man with a history of violent ideas could get his hands on a weapon capable of such destruction. And yet, we are lucky. Just 32 seconds after the shooting began, Dayton Police neutralized the gunman. He was killed as he attempted to enter a bar where hundreds of people were hiding. If he shot 26 people on the street in 32 seconds, what could he have done in that bar . We are so lucky that seven Dayton Police officers were less than a block away when the shooting began. Were so lucky that these officers relied on their training and their courage, and ran directly into the gunfire. I have thought a lot about the bravery of the Dayton Police and the impossible situation that confronted them. Why do we ask our First Responders to face down weapons that can do so much damage in so little time . Our city has honored these heroes. The white house has honored these heroes. But if were serious about honoring and thanking our brave First Responders, the best thing we can do is make sure they are never put in this situation again. Police should not have to confront a weapon that can kill nine people in 32 seconds. No one should. The evening after the shooting, thousands of people gathered for a vigil on the same street where nine of their neighbors had died only hours earlier. When the governor took the stage, hundreds of people shouted in frustration, do something. Do something. The massacre that happened in dayton and has happened in too many communities across this country demands a response. We must insure that no american neither a young person on a casual night out, nor a Police Officer on patrol has to face down weapons capable of so much destruction. Im here today on behalf of the citizens of dayton and mayors across the country to ask you to keep weapons like this off our streets. Im here to ask you to do something. Thank you, chairman. Rep. Nadler thank you. Dr. Tovar . Dr. Tovar chairman nadler, vice chair scanlan, Ranking Member collins and distinguished members of the house Judiciary Committee, thank you for the opportunity to come before you today and to participate in this hearing. Ive been a trauma surgeon and the associate trauma medical director at the Medical Center at el paso for several years. On saturday morning, august 3, i just finished a typical 30 hour shift at the hospital with the usual gallbladder surgery. I picked up mcdonalds on the way home looking forward to eating, getting sleep until sunday morning when i had to do it all over again. Just after i got home at 10 55 a. M. , i received a text message from my chairman of surgery who was out of town. Active shooter, walmart, unknown number of victims. Honestly i didnt think much of it. I have an active shooter alert a month earlier, and the swat team only brought in one person at a time. Dr. Susan, my mentor, could surely handle this. A text was sent to minutes later to all surgeons in our group. If anybody is in el paso, go to the hospital. Theres an active shooter and well get at least four or five victims. By the time the text was sent, i would learn later the shooting was over in just about 20 minutes. And more than 20 people were killed, more than 20 were injured, and countless lives would be changed. I ran red lights and sped to the hospital. I knew that most of these patients would require immediate surgery, and i was trying to coordinate who would be there to help operate. By the time i arrived, each of our six trauma bays had patients, each needed surgery. A doctor was already in the operating room with one of them. The one that drew my attention was a patient with cpr in progress. She had been talking just a few minutes before, and now from a shoulder wound she was lifeless. My resident and i quickly and methodically cut open her chest to begin manual cardiac compressions. Three liters of blood immediately spilled to the floor. And after working for several minutes, i knew our efforts were futile and i had to pronounce time of death. Just 10 minutes after i arrived to the hospital. The look of disappointment in my residents eyes ate at me. I could not process that now. We had more to do. Im not a military surgeon. But what i saw looked like a war zone. Small gunshot wounds in the legs amounted to huge areas of cavitation and exit wounds larger than a grapefruit. I had never seen anything like this before. How could a firearm create this type of destruction . The next woman had a third of her pelvis shattered, multiple holes in her large intestine were too extensive to be repaired. In damage control surgery, decisions have to be made to remove parts of the intestines when there are more pressing issues to be addressed. In this case, it was clear none of these, none of this intestine could be salvaged. We packed with temporary dressing. When she was stabilized and could return to surgery in a day or two to assess for any missed injuries. I have treated countless patients with gunshot wounds from small firearms. In those cases, sometimes its even difficult to find the holes because of how small they are, and the clean cut appearance that looks like a pencil made them. Here, it was not so. We had 14 patients come in the span of 34 minutes. The other main hospital in town received 11 patients. Seven of our patients went straight to the o. R. For surgery in a single hour. And most had to return to the operating room several more times. And their journey is still not done. In the next few months, temporary colostomies, multiple orthopedic types of procedures will have to be reperformed and reversed and closed. In the aftermath, 22 people lost their lives that day. We did save 13 out of the 14 patients that arrived to us. But that first patient haunts me every night. I wish i could have done more. And i blame myself for her death. I saw her autopsy recently to try and get some closure. She was protecting her child, and so she was actually shot in the back and through her shoulder. She had a hole the size of a baseball at the top of her lung. Her subclavian vessels were essentially nonexistent. If this injury had been caused by a smaller firearm, she might have had a chance of survival. But there was absolutely nothing i could do to fix that type of devastating injury. I hope that she died knowing she protected her child from the same fate. Thank you, chairman. Rep. Nadler thank you. Chief bradley. Committeekney chairman, Ranking Member, and members of the u. S. House of representatives, committee on the judiciary, i bring you greetings on behalf of the executive board and members of the National Organization of black Law Enforcement executives, noble. As you know, my name is dr. Michelle brackney. Im the chief of police in charlottesville, virginia and all that that brings with it. Its an honor for noble to provide written testimony on the topic of protecting america from assault weapons. Noble is very concerned about the level of gun violence in the United States and specifically the correlation between violence and the proliferation of assault weapons and high capacity ammunition magazines. Its our organizations opinion that violence, particularly gun violence, is a Public Health issue. And as with all Public Health issues, it demands a comprehensive, nonjudgmental, pragmatic, evidencebased approach to saving lives and reducing injury. Noble, along with other organizations such as the national Law Enforcement partnership to prevent gun violence, of which were a member, is committed to addressing the pervasive nature of gun violence and its terrific impact on communities across america. Specifically, firearm related injuries and deaths to include homicides, suicides, and accidental shootings, involving assault weapons, is unacceptable and demands immediate action. To be clear noble defines assault weapons as semiautomatic guns with a high capacity ammunition magazine designed for military use. We advocate for limiting high capacity ammunition magazines to 10 rounds, and the regulation of new semiautomatic assault weapons. In 2016, assault weapons accounted for one in four Police Officers killed in the line of duty through gun violence. Noble supported the Public Safety and recreational firearms use protection act or the federal assault weapons ban of 1994, and the federal assault weapons ban reauthorization act of 2004. We currently support hr8, which is a bipartisan background check act of 2019. As does 90 of all americans. Assault weapons have been used in many Mass Shootings such as Marjorie StonemanDouglas High School in parkland, florida, the tree of life synagogue shooting, the las vegas Music Festival shooting and in el paso. We believe the level and the lethality of gun violence directed at Police Officers and our communities requires an organized and aggressive response from policy makers at the federal, state and local levels. Elected officials must commit to closing gaps in the current regulatory system, including those that enable felons, minors and other prohibited persons to access firearms and those that allow the trafficking of illegal guns. Law enforcement plays a central and Critical Role in preventing gun violence and solving crime. Effective strategies for the strict enforcement of laws concerning the illegal possession, trafficking, and criminal use of firearms are vital. And we need to be supported by data, research, technology, training, and best practices. Because the Publics Health and safety depend on the efforts of Law Enforcement, agencies must have resources sufficient to prioritize the protection of officers and communities against guns and firearm violence. The crisis of gun violence in our country necessitates a sustained, coordinated and collaborative effort involving the citizens, elected officials, Law Enforcement and the entire criminal justice system. On behalf of the Law Enforcement leaders of noble, we thank you for supporting Law Enforcement ability to maintain Public Safety while continuing to address the health issue of gun violence. Our members stand ready to meet the needs of our communities and the nation. And we thank you for the opportunity for you to do the same. Rep. Nadler thank you very much. Ms. Rand . Ms. Rand thank you mr. Chairman , and members of the committee for hearing the views of the Violence Policy Center. Were a National Educational organization working to reduce gun violence. Generally semiautomatic assault weapons are civilian versions of military assault weapons. Semiautomatic assault weapons look the same as their military counterparts because theyre virtually identical save for one feature. Military assault weapons are machine guns capable of fully automatic fire. Assault weapons did not just happen. They were developed to be welldefined combat needs. The most significant assault weapon functional design feature is the ability to accept a detachable ammunition magazine. The gun industry introduced semiautomatic versions of military assault weapons in order to create and exploit new civilian markets for these Deadly Weapons. The gun industry began to aggressively market assault weapons in the 1980s. The industry and gun magazines enthusiastically describe these versions as military assault weapons to boost civilian sales throughout the 1980s. The industrys marketing of assault weapons has intensified as the market for traditional firearms has waned. The gun industrys Marketing Campaigns stress that semi automatic assault weapons available to civilians are the equivalent of those used by the military. The industrys marketing materials are replete with military images and language. I will give you one example. Our Tactical Firearms are the stuff of legend. Every innovation is born in the battlefront built the home front. The rise of public Mass Shootings directly coincides with the increasing availability of assault weapons and highcapacity magazines. Prior to the 1980s, the United States very rarely experienced the trauma of a public mass shooting. 1984. Egan to change in wielded an oozy carbine uz carbine. Now they are coming with increasing frequency. The impact of the focus on military style firearms and be seen in the weapons chosen by todays mass shooters. The shooter who killed nine and wounded 27 in dayton chose an ar type assault pistol equipped with a stabilizing brace, a relatively new trend in industry innovation. A major point i would like to make given this opportunity is that assault weapons are not just about Mass Shootings. The threat posed by these weapons is much broader than that. In fact, they pose a significant risk to Law Enforcement. The Violence Policy Center performed an analysis of unpublished information from the fbi and determined that one out of five Law Enforcement officers slain in the line of duty in 2016 and 2017 were killed with assault weapons. Weapons are assault the clear weapons of choice a crossborder gun traffickers supplying criminal organizations in mexico and other latin american countries. We have an ongoing project looking at the firearms seized in the context of these types of trafficking prosecutions and of the 60005 firearms named in trafficking prosecutions were assault weapons. Finally, assault weapons are used in street crime, which i am sure you will hear more from Law Enforcement today. I quickly want to address some items with respect to must bethe definition very clear and something industry cannot evade and we must find a way to grapple with the grandfathered weapons. Those are the two major flaws of the 1994 law. Thank you for considering my views. Rep. Nadler thank you very much. My name is amy swearer and i i am theanalyst policy analyst at the heritage foundation. Policy analyst and policy makers must have an accurate understanding of the societal problems they are seeking to combat. Appeary policymakers completely uninformed about basic factual realities related to guns and and violence. We all want safer communities. The characteristics distinguishing socalled assault weapons from nonassault weapons are not factors. Proposals to ban scary looking areures like pistol grips proposals to force lawabiding citizens to own guns that are harder for them to handle, harder to fire accurately, and more likely to cause them injuries even when they are being used for lawful purposes. Rifles are not a meaningful driving factor behind rates of gun violence are two thirds of gun deaths are suicides with the type of firearm is irrelevant. With respect to gun crimes, over 90 are committed with handguns. Rifles of any kind are used in only three to 4 of gun homicides every year. Despite frequent claims that semi automatic rifles or the weapon of choice for mass public shooters, in the last decade, over half of the shootings have been carried out with handguns alone. On the other hand, semi automatic rifles like the ar15 are so well suited defensive action against threats in civilian context that the department of Homeland Security literally designates them as personal defense weapons for Law Enforcement officers. It is Little Wonder that lawabiding citizens in this country choose these types of semi automatic rifles as their own personal defense weapons. Benefiting americans when they are allowed to defend themselves with them. Situations where they are outnumbered. Ironically, the rifle deemed an assault weapon by many in this room was used defensively to protect innocent people against assault and the perpetrators used a nonassault weapon to commit actual assault. Some of the most famous examples of the defense of use of assault weapons civilians come from scenarios where the government has been either unable or unwilling to defend entire communities from largescale civil unrest. During the 1992 l. A. Riots, Law Enforcement was nowhere to be found as hundreds of looters ransacked koreatown. Ordinary door owners took upon it ordinary store owners took it upon themselves to defend from lawlessness. In ferguson, missouri, in 2014. There are some who do not understand why or how anyone would need such scary looking rifles. Up withr did not grow firearms and they will never be her favorite thing in the world. She has never handled a firearm until i took her to the range for the first time several years ago. I love my mother but like every other novice with a handgun, she was quite bad. She struggled to hit a stationary target from six yards out under ideal conditions. And then she picked up in ar15 i watch my mother put that is why lawabiding citizens by millions of these firearms. When accuracy matters, they are simply better. Americans use firearms to defend themselves between 500,000 and 2 million times every year part god for bed that my mother were faced 2 million times every year. I hope politicians protected by professional arm security to not strip her of the right to use the firearm she can handle most competently. I hope she has in her hand the scariest looking assault weapon she can find so that we can both be confident in her ability to end the threat. Thank you. Rep. Nadler thank you. Thank you, chairman. Is Diana Moeller and im an ordinary american, one who has had different Life Experiences that bring me here today as a dissenter of any new gun control laws, including the assault weapons ban. After 22 years as a police , i retired to focus on a second career as a professional shooter. I came to this town as a tourist and during a meeting with my congressman i asked if there was anything i should be doing to dispel the information about guns and gun owners that is running rampant on capitol hill. And. Project was born was born, educational and nonpartisan effort from 50 women leading their legislators as gun owners and Second Amendment supporters right we are as diverse of any crosssection of america. Many of these women have been endured unspeakable violence themselves or lost loved ones. Their stories are similar to kate nixons. It was reported that kate knew her coworker wasnt unstable and felt that she would he would shoot up the place. Her husband encouraged her to take a pistol to work but she did not want to break the rules. She followed the policy that was supposed to keep her safe and she was murdered the next way in the Virginia Beach tragedy. These laws and policies are taking away a womans right to choose. Then rights are womens rights gun rights are womens rights. That is why i am honored to be here today. As a woman, i am likely smaller, less equipped for violence than attacker. Equalizer is a great and levels the playing field. I married late in life. I spent the majority of my adult life sleeping by myself. There were so many nights there were bumps in the night but i eace because i have a firearm by my side. I am worth protecting. I family is worth protecting. My family is worth protecting. Why does anybody need an ar 15 . You would not run a marathon in dress shoes. Each of my firearms have a specific purpose. Gets called on it is my go to for home defense and vehicle gun. I have turned a hobby into a living. The ar 15 platform is the most popular generalpurpose rifle because it is the most versatile and customizable. Freedom does not ask why the need. Necessity is the plea for every infringement on human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves. I enforce the laws you created and ida front row seat to the justice system. It is frustrating to see the revolving door where judges give minimal sentencing. I find it ironic in todays effort of criminal Justice Reform that you are taking steps to be lenient on people who have committed crimes against laws you have already created while at the same time proposing more laws that turn ordinary lawabiding citizens into criminals. How about holding the people accountable for the laws that are already on the books before we pass any further legislation that would only be a burden on the lawabiding . If these laws were the answer, chicago, baltimore, l. A. , and this city be the safest city in america. The Firearms Community is doingsomething. You, work with us instead of demonizing us. Lawabiding american gun owners are not the enemy. Help our community promote programs like project child safe and the Kids Safe Foundation that teaches kids about firearm safety. Walk the talk america is a Suicide Prevention program. These are initiatives that are being driven by the firearms industry. If you really want to make a difference, to behind these programs and find them. And fund them. We believe one life unjustifiably taken is one life to many. Kids start protecting our like we protect the people in this building. Thank you for the opportunity and thank you for your time and service. Rep. Nadler thank you. Good morning, chairman, members of the committee. Chipman and iid am the senior policy advisor at the gun Violence Prevention Organization founded by debbie giffords. I am a gun owner and i served as a special agent for the bureau of alcohol tobacco firearms and explosives for 25 years. I served on the front lines of our governments efforts to prevent Violent Crime and effectively regulate the firearms industry. I worked to disrupt firearms trafficking conspiracies along the iron pipeline, served on atf swat team and later was the special agent into hard into the firearms programs. Although all weapons can be dangerous in the wrong hands, some weapons are lethal and should be more strictly regulated. Nations current violence gun violence crisis has made two things clear. It is far too easy for violent people to get their hands on Deadly Weapons and the American People overwhelmingly Want Congress to act now, to make their community safer. Assault weapons or class of semi automatic firearms intended for military use designed to kill people quickly and efficiently. These weapons are often the weapon of choice for mass shooters. 15,ult weapons, like the ar are considered are configured so that a shooter can fire accurately and rapidly. They can accept attachable magazines. There is no limit to the possible size of a magazine. This enables the shooter to continue firing as many as 100 rounds without having to stop and reload, maximizing the casualties. Identical to are those used by the military. The public and many lawmakers have called for a renewal of the 9 of the assault weapons ban. That say with confidence there were benefits and limitations. The 1994 act had a positive effect on Public Safety. Period it wasyear in effect, Mass Shootings fatalities were 70 like leslie 70 less likely to occur. It suffered from notable limitations. The law did not regulate the transfer or possession of assault weapons manufactured before the laws effective date. Any fractures took of took advantage of this loophole. While the law was in place, assault weapons were resold through private transactions, undermining its effectiveness. We rarely saw the kinds of Mass Shootings we are seeing today. Since the assault weapons ban expired in 2004, the gun industry has continued to design and sell more dangerous weapons. During the 1990s, assault pistols fired nine millimeter handgun rounds. Modern ak pistols, like the weapon used in dayton, fire rifle rounds. We currently do not have a reliable count of how many assault weapons are in circulation. If our goal is to balance the rights of responsible lawabiding gun owners and the urgent need to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of criminals, reinstating the band on assault weapon is not enough. One option would be to require the registration of all existing assault weapons in civilian hands under the National Firearms act while banning the future manufacture sale of these firearms. The nfa imposes tax and registration requirement to exact certain weapons, including silencers, saw tufts. Sawedoff shotguns. In order to possess one of these weapons, you must pass a background check, provide fingerprints and a photo, and register their weapon with atf. Using the nfa to address assault weapons would use an existing and effective regulatory structure that allows lawful ownership while also addressing the Public Safety concerns. For more than 80 years, this regulatory system has worked effectively. Legally owned weapons are rarely used in crimes. I have built my career around the belief that it is possible to allens rights and responsibilities. I have stood in the face of danger to protect Public Safety. It is unacceptable that military style weapons are so readily available to civilians today and they increase the need they increase the loss of innocent lives. Thank you for considering my testimony today and i look forward to your questions. Rep. Nadler thank you very much. The Ranking Member, the gentleman from georgia has arrived and we will hear his Opening Statement. Thank you for your indulgence. Thanks for holding this hearing on the socalled assault weapons. Lets hope that todays hearing, we will have a better understanding of these types of rifles. I hope we can have an open and on verse on his conversation. I hope we can avoid the rhetoric that has plagued this discussion for decades. Lets look at the term assault weapon. When the term entered the hean lexicon, many stated assault weapons are a new topic. Anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun can only increase Building Support for restrictions on these weapons. Few people can envision practical uses for these weapons. Assault weapons are not Assault Rifles. They are designed for military use. Semi automatic requires the operator to pull the trigger for each shot. The socalled assault weapons are semi automatic. They cannot be used as a fully automatic Assault Rifle. They require you to pull the trigger each time for each shot. Unfortunately, many in the American Public and media do not understand the difference. We must understand what different firearms do and how they function if we want to have effective laws to prevent nonviolence. As we dive into these conversations, lets clear up another popular misconception. Ar 15 does not stand for Assault Rifle. Ar 15s are not Assault Rifles. The operator pulls the trigger to fire each shot. The differences are largely cosmetic. This information comes from many sources. The state senator from california stated it has the a 30 caliber clip, should be a magazine, 30 bullets in half a second. Either that is a blatant misrepresentation or indication of shocking ignorance. Even a military issue in for cannot fire at such a rate. These kinds of bullets need to be licensed and do not need to be on the streets. This manages to make factual errors. Fire anyone who knows that it is absurd to suggest it. I hope we can clear of these misconceptions and todays hearing but my hopes are not high. When we have a democratic president ial candidate say hell yes, we will take your ar15, lets hope cooler and rational heads prevail. Lets review how these socalled Assault Rifles are used in crimes. Some estimate at 10 million. In 2017, there were 403 murders committed with all rifles, not just those deemed to be assault weapons. Speeding killed 9717 people. If we are going to have this debate, and we should, we must be honest with each other and take the time to learn basic facts about the items we are looking to band. Ban. That is not too much to ask and hopefully the witnesses can assist with that task. Rep. Nadler thank you. We will now proceed under the five minute rule for questions. I will recognize myself for five minutes. There are certain features that distinguish assault weapons from hunting rifles. This committee reported on a bill that would ban large capacity magazines. , people got994 ban around the band by various means. How should we define an Assault Rifle that we might want to ban in order to get around the adaptability of such weapons . Thank you for your question, chairman. I think the major problem with the 1994 law is that it defined Assault Rifles by the ability to take a detachable ammunition magazine, which is the most important and most deadly feature and required two additional listed assault weapon features Assault Rifle features, such as the pistol grip. What the industry did was take off the more superfluous factors, like a bayonet lug, that they could retain the pistol grip which allows the shooter to have better control during rapidfire. If we go to what is known as the one characteristics test and clearly define those characteristics that define an assault weapon and assault weapons include assault pistols and assault shot ends, we will be on much firmer footing. Rep. Nadler that would eliminate these weapons that we commonly refer to as assault weapons that can cause mass casualties. I believe a good definition coupled with an effective magazine ban, you cannot overstate the importance of a magazine ban, do the job to ban assault weapons. Rep. Nadler mr. Chipman, assault weapons have become the favorite weapon for many mass murderers. These weapons are preferred by individuals who commit crimes. 1994 assaulto the weapons ban have on improving Public Safety . Think there are two things involved. When looking at Mass Shootings, we see that 70 less likely to be killed in a mass shooting in the period. When i was at atf, what i did see was impact of availability of assault pistols, which we were seeing more daily as a threat to everyday gun violence. Things like the tech nine. I think that what we would expect to see in the future is similar declines over time. It enhances Public Safety. It did not make the streets more dangerous, which is often the claim if we did not have those weapons available to the public. Rep. Nadler thank you very much. What does a gunshot wound from an assault weapon look like compared to a wound from a handgun . These large caliber cartridges, bullets, have serious greater than the size of my fist. Not just with the ,ullets but also in effect with the blast effect that is internal as well. With my experience with whichns, gunshot wounds, are shot at a lower velocity, it is through and through and not as significant as damage. It can be readily fixed in the operating room. I have not seen anything like this before this mass shooting and im am not seen anything since then. Because the that is greater velocity of an Assault Rifle bullet . Thank you. I commend you for your leadership in the wake of the dayton shooting. What affected the mass shooting have in your community what affect did the mass shooting have in your community . Other mayors experience this in their communities as well. The mayor of pittsburgh and parkland. Any another shooting happens in the country, the whole Community Goes to the shooting. And we seen that already know the Mental Health work that we need to do will take years for us to make sure people have the services they need. This is an area where young people and a great Diverse Community come together and we are concerned they dont have medical access to the Mental Health services they need. Rep. Nadler thank you very much. Recognize the Ranking Member. Some of the misconceptions we frequently hear in this discussion around socalled assault weapons. Some of the things we have heard today, talking about cosmetic things. And i disagree with what i have because a 22 rifle that everybody may have seen as something your father may have given you, we can turn that into an ar platform and it will look like an ar platform and you would think this is a weapon of war. Se are cosmetic is not true that all weapons come out of work . All weapons come out of war. My point is that any firearm is lethal force. Our community is all about safety and trying to educate people into how to be responsible gun owners. We are not for these were all started from the idea that all of a sudden they jump from war to the street. Rom world came home f war i, they wanted to use what they used in world war i. One of the issues is, effect on me personally and i believe the statistics stated that it was ineffective and i believe you guys let it sunset. This committee passed a Party Line Vote a red flag law. Do you have any concerns about what this committee reported . Extensively onen red flag laws and there may be a place for targeted interventions who are dangerous, there are serious concerns with policies such as the ones that have recently come out of this body. Part of that is a complete lack of due process. We are taking away fundamental Constitutional Rights. There need to be very high burdens of proof and there need objectivect to narrow measures about what constitutes dangerousness. Followup, not allowing people to wait 30 days before they have their hearing after already infringing on their Constitutional Rights. We need to ensure there are provisions for the restoration of those right and things like that are vitally important and they are not measures i have seen adequately imposed. Ande really took two bills we did what we do appear a lot and sandwich it in to a same bill and it created a lot of problems. One of the issues was jurisdictional influence. Is that something outside his concerning . Is that something that is concerning . It did until we added on a federal side of it. One of the big thing should be followup in terms of Mental Health, treatment, people have a route to have the rights restored to them. Part of the problem is jurisdictional. Federalt really a jurisdictional type of issue. Appreciate the conversation about the old 22. It is not a brandnew gun. I appreciate what you do for your community. Your testimony is very compelling. Isnt it true that a 357 magnum or a 44 magnum would also cause catastrophic damage . That is my understanding damage fromophic those types of weapons as well. To do awayeally want with what you saw, you have to get rid of all guns . I am not advocating for that. Similar concussions from different guns. I think they are very similar when you look at it. I yelled back. I yield back. On july 28, a shooter in semi automatic rifle which is a variant of an ak47 and he had a 75 round magazine and five 40 round magazines as he carried out his attack. The sale of this firearm and highcapacity magazines are banned in california but he went over to nevada and bought them there and brought them back to gilroy. He killed stephen romero, age six, who lived in my district and kyle salazar, 13, who lived 25,y district, and trevor, lived over in santa cruz and he injured 17 others and he did that in under 60 seconds. Police ran uplroy to him and in less than a minute, they shot him and he killed himself. I really am grateful to the gilroy Police Officers but i feel the need to take action so that you cannot have a weapon that can do so much damage in under 60 seconds and kill innocent people who have a right to be able to go to a familyfriendly festival and not be in fear of their lives. After that, i heard your testimony about the impact on a community and it is very real for the people who were there, for the people for their neighbors, for their fellow parishioners and their friends but really it is a whole community. The next weekend, there were familyfriendly festivals that were canceled because people were afraid to go out in public. We have created a situation where the kind of thing i had growing up where i could go to a ork or a Grocery Store walked down the street and not be afraid, that is not the case anymore. We have an obligation to make sure that americans have that same level of freedom that they had when i was a young person. That is why we are having this hearing today. Your interested in whole law in the enforcement weapons area. Have assault weapons become more lethal since the expiration of the 1994 van . 1994 ban . Click certainly, i have seen a big leap in assault posters certainly, i have seen a big weapons. Ssault aroundnt attempt to work the regulation of shortbarreled rifles, you can get a nar pistols. And arcan get ak pistols. I do not know any common donors who look to that as the great common gun owners who look to that as the great, defense weapon. They are outside the norm and more lethal. I am wondering, when i think about california and the actions taken by the state legislature and governor to make the state safer, do you think state laws are sufficient . Gilroy, theas in shooter can cross the state line and get something banned in his own state . We need a National Comprehensive approach. I was out in denver and talking to people and focused on the issue of gun violence. Half of their crime guns come from other states. Many of the crime guns in chicago are coming from states like indiana and that is from firearms trafficking. If we had comprehensive and universal laws at the national level, there would not be this interstate travel to go and work around the law. It is no different, we had different drinking age. Kids would go to another state to buy under age. That is why it is important for decisions asng federal authorities. There is a difference because a 19yearold going to drink in new york is a lot different than a 19yearold going to nevada and killing children in gilroy. I was not yet a member of ban body when the 94 gun was passed. I was elected and sworn in the following year. As a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, i would not have voted for that at the time. That when the socalled assault weapons ban 19942004, that is when the columbine shooting took place. Contrary to1999 and the majoritys belief, there is no conclusive evidence that the weapons ban had any appreciable fact on Mass Shootings or Violent Crime. On that . Nt to comment is that your understanding as well . That is the understanding of those who released the official report on after the ban expired. What they found was should it be renewed, it was unlikely to have any meaningful or measurable effect. Aree types of firearms rarely used to commit crimes in the first place. Handguns and nonassault weapons are historically most often used commit crimes. You served as a Law Enforcement officer in tulsa, oklahoma. Thank you for your service. Were a Law Enforcement officer, that was during the assault weapons ban, is that correct . Before, during, and after. Relative to agree whether there is any evidence that we are any safer as a society when that was in place or what are your thoughts about that . I would agree with her. Personally and professionally, it had little it had zero impact on me. I saw little difference before, during, and after. Describe some of the misconceptions that you frequently hear when it comes to the discussion surrounding socalled assault weapons . Weone of the things, when talk about weapon of war, first used asanything can be a weapon when you are in battle, i suppose great the ar 15 specifically, i have friends who have served in combat roles and they have told me that is not a desirable round. They do not like the ar 15. This is their personal opinion. They would much prefer to carry a 308, or something with greater stopping power. The guns we are discussing here this morning, do people use these for to hunt . Selfdefense . Are they suitable for both . Oure certainly use them in family. Be thewill have to lawabiding citizen but does have a pistol ar and i choose that because it is more compact and it does give me the greater capacity. It is a better defensive firearm and it fits better in my vehicle. Easier tottle bit move around but i get the same advantages of the ar. Thank you very much. Are theyou believe major motivations behind the Mass Shootings that we have seen and is it your opinion that we ought to be focused on what is actually causing these things . That is absolutely my opinion. It is very clear when you look at mass public shooters, what you see, much higher rates of serious untreated serious Mental Illness. They have been diagnosed with a serious Mental Illness or two thirds of them, people who are not getting who are in a mentally stable place. Individuals who are not in good mental place, showing clear signs of being dangerous to themselves or others. There is room for intervention with them. That is one of the avenues we have to look at, how we treat those underlying problems and intervene in an effective way. Thank you very much. Let me ask mr. Chipman, these weapons are made by lots of companies. Correct . Thats correct. Is cold the exclusive is manufacturerusive of ar 15s . There are imported once. Market asibe the flooded and it is my belief that flooded by foreignmade ars and the ability to make one your own now. With some of those becoming from russia . Would some of those be coming from russia . Here . 47, are they sold here,y are not only sold they are now manufactured in this country. A few years ago, i was in russia, three years ago, and there was an effort by the russian government to try to change our policies and get more sold in this country. This is before the election of president trump. I was there during obamas term. Companieslike find it advantageous to build those in america and not have to deal with the import issues. Do you know anything that has happened during the Trump Administration it mightve benefited them . I do not. For many years, they have opposed they have supported a ban on assault weapons. Whys that . As a Law Enforcement organization, they saw a threat to Law Enforcement and we are responding to these things. Officers00 offduty were in las vegas being shot at. We have families, too. It comes from a place where police are members of our communities and they want to do a good job and keep our streets safe and these are lethal and threatening when in the wrong hands. How can you say that with a straight face when you realize that one good man with a gun could take out that person . I was trained to be that person and that is the big myth. You do not have enough time to pull your gun. You need to get in the way of the gun and get shot in the way of the bullet and get shot. At any time you are responding to a shooting, a lot has happened badly and we cannot one National Policy relying winning gunfights. I appreciate you recognizing my sarcasm. The you agree that assault weapon should not be sold in this country . It is disingenuous that we are arguing about terminology. I also say the same thing when we are talking about, even uing pushing back against what stops a bad person with a gun is keeping the gun out of their hands to start with. [applause] ask that any Law Enforcement officer but is had to look down the barrel. Tell them that we are going to argue about definition versus the impact it is having in our communities. I know this hearing is about assault weapons. There is also armor piercing bullets. Do you agree they have no place in our society . They are dubbed cop killers. Our could pierce through protective gear. Absolutely. The organizations i represent and i am a part of, we stand , there is no place in society for the type of weapons that can do the type of damage to not only Law Enforcement but the community at large. The ammo to defeat armor and rifle rounds that defeat ballistic vests we wear. I think each of you for your testimony and i stand with the police and the Sheriff Department and not with the nra. [applause] mr. Chairman, thank you. I would disagree with what has been said because one of the problems we had last time, and i was here when this was passed, was making proper definitions. If we want to achieve this goal, we have to have those definitions done correctly. I have heard a lot of the arguments on this and a lot of what thees around firearm looks like rather than how the firearm works. It seems to me that the problem is how the firearm works. Fully automatic military style rifles have been illegal for somebody to buy since the 1930s except with a very hard to get permit from the atf. Automatict are semi most,gal for hunting in if not all, states. There are a lot of semi automatic hunting rifles that regulators feel are sporting rifles i do not think we have any business here taking away hunting rifles from people who are not disqualified from owning them and people who think hunting is a good sport. I am not a hunter. I do not sit in the cold during deer hunting season. Lets define this correctly. Ask some of the quote who support banning Assault Rifles, do you think hunting rifles ought to be banned if they are semi automatic . Thank you, representative. My point here today is to reiterate that Constitutional Rights require responsibility and balance and the people of dayton also have the right a yes or no answer on whether hunting rifles ought to be banned. I think this body will define this correctly. Answer from the mayor on whether hunting rifles ought to be banned. Let the record state that. Should hunting rifles be banned . I agree there should be a definition of what socalled Assault Rifle is, socalled answer the question. If you have this definition of a , it looksatic firearm bad because it has a shoulder thing. I do not own any firearm so i am not defining is correct. I was not elected to sit here and tell people who like to hunt that all of a sudden, the firearm they have been using legally, according to state regulations, ends up being banned because we in congress think it should be. In terms of what should be legal you are not answering the question. Yes or no . I believe any weapon that can be used to hunt individual should be banned. [applause] that is not what the virginia dnr says. We think that you can clearly distinguish between Assault Rifles from sporting hunting rifles and just because you can hunt with an ar 15 does not make it a hunting rifle. Having said that, we do not support the ban on true hunting rifles. We will put that down as a question mark. If the question is whether hunting rifles should be banned because they are semi automatic rifles, the answer is no. We are talking about functional difference between hunting rifles and assault weapons. I would say no, we should not be banning hunting rifles because they have a pistol grip. No. The gentlemans time has expired. We welcome your right to be here and we ask for your respect as we pursue the business of the committee and it is the intention of the committee to proceed without disruption. Holding the for first hearing on assault weapons in 20 years. There is a reason why assault weapons have become the weapon of choice for mass killers. Kill as designed to many people as possible in short in short of a time as possible. Just one day earlier, a gunman legally purchased an ak47 and killed 22 people and injured 27 in walmart in el paso. On july 28, a gunman legally purchased an assault weapon weeks before killing three people and wounding 12 people at the gilroy festival in california. In each of the shootings, despite the Quick Response teams and heroic efforts of Law Enforcement and First Responders, ready for people were killed within a weeks time and 60 more people injured and this does not begin to account for the Mental Health consequences these have on survivors. I want to welcome the advocates and family members who are here and thank you for being here and being such a powerful voice in this debate. Andknowledge the mayor commend her for her strong leadership. Harm thataddress the Mass Shootings have on our community and keep the American People safe from senseless acts of violence. It prohibits the sale and importation of semi audit attic semi automatic weapons while protecting hoarding sporting and hunting rifles. Weapons exempt in the bills of this notion that we are going to ban hunters is false. It wouldve prevented the tragedies we witnessed in dayton, el paso, and gilroy. You would think that the assault weapons ban is some radical idea. It was a law for 10 years and it passed the house with 38 republican votes. It worked. No lawabiding american lost their guns. During the tenure period, 10year. , mass shooting for tallies were 70 less likely. It is less likely that americans will be killed while hanging out at bars with friends or simply going to school. Instead of attacking the problem, we are building schools sendingved hallways and our kids off to school with bulletproof backpacks. This is sickening. One that will make a real difference. If you look at this study, the analyzed data shows six more people were shot or killed for 50 years to analyze whether the 10 year ban on assault weapons had any effect. When the van lapsed, the number of gun massacres shot up with 182 increase in massacres. 34 massacre incidents and 230 increase in massacre deaths. Does that establish the effect the effectiveness of the assault weapons ban . I think the 1994 ban had a Chilling Effect on the industry. It was able to evade the law in certain ways, and your bill addresses all of those things that industry does. Your bill would be even more effective. We know from the statistics that there clearly was a reduction in Mass Shootings, and since the ban lapsed, the industry has only become more and more aggressive. And one point of alike to make about the increasingly salary is the increase in the capacity of magazines. We seldom saw 75 round and 100 round magazines. We see those all the time now. You, the legislation i propose has the one character you previously spoke about. On august 14 this year, since Police Officers in philadelphia were shot during an eight hour standoff with the gunman using an ar15. According to the violence policy and four 2016 one Police Officers killed in the line of duty is killed by an assault weapon, and attack some on force meant that resulted in mass police facilities, assault weapons killed 75 of those officers. In your opinion, what an assault weapons ban assist Law Enforcement with protecting themselves and the communities from gun violence . Absolutely. What we also want to consider is an open carry state. It is much easier to identify a person who has an illegal weapon if they are not allowed to have one or not. I would not have to make the distinction between a good person with a gun or a bad person with a gun. Letters of consent signed by nearly 150 organizations including the Newtown Action alliance and the Brady Campaign. I ask unanimous consent to have a study by the Violence Policy Center that shows one in four Law Enforcement officers slain in the lane of duty by an assault weapon. I ask unanimous consent that this report of a 2018 study published in the journal of trauma and acute care surgery which found that nasa tallies were 70 likely to occur during the 1994 assault weapon ban period. Without objection. An article reflecting a poll by Morning Consult showing 70 percent of americans, including the majority of republicans support an assault weapons ban. And finally a fox news poll that shows 67 of americans support on assault weapons ban. Without objection. , mr. Chairman, i yield back. [inaudible protestor] another reminder for the audience, that while we appreciate your being here, if you refrain from making any noise or otherwise disrupting the proceedings or like the last gentleman, the Capitol Police will remove you from the audience so we can return to order. Mr. Buck, youre recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ms. Whaley you stated in our Opening Statement that the shooter was neutraled by police. Was he killed by police . Yes, representative. Was he killed with a gun or several guns . Several guns. Ok. Mr. Chipman. Would you agree with me that most gun violence is caused, im sorry, that most violence is caused by handguns, most gun violence is caused by handguns . Most criminal gun violence handgun is used in that violence. Would you also agree with me, first of all, let me thank you for your 25 years of experience with the atf. I spent 15 years as a federal prosecutor, ten years as a district attorney, worked many times with atf and appreciated their hard work. Would you also agree with me the gang and gang members are responsible for upwards of 90 of all Violent Crimes in this country and nationwide 80 of all gunrelated homicides in the u. S. Are caused by gang members . That conflicts with all the information i have. You ever use a gang database while you were with the atf . Sure. And did you find gang database reliable . It depends what i was looking for. Gang affiliation . Yeah, the gang affiliation is a very loose term that Law Enforcement can label people. Again, my hesitancy is that there was nothing in my 25year experience at atf that suggests that 90 of gun crime is tied to gangs. Nothing at all. I asked you about gang affiliation. Let me ask you about the nix database. Are you familiar . Yes, i am. Have you ever run across a false positive, meaning someone who has been identified as a prohibited person because of a prior felony and yet the database indicated that this particular person who attempted to purchase a gun was prohibited and they were not prohibited . Yes, very rarely. Ok. But it happens . It has happened. Could we put a picture up, please . My question to you is approximately how many ar15s are owned in america . So theres no precise estimate, but if were talking about the ar15 semiautomatic general rifle platform of that nature, estimates are at least several million in two upwards of 16 to 18 million. And approximately how many have been used in Mass Shootings in the last decade, for example . Probably several dozen. Several dozen . Ok. Yes, sir. And so the several dozen minus the 16 to 18 million, my Democrat Friends are suggesting that those lawabiding citizens have those weapons taken away from them, is that correct . That is my understanding, yes, sir. Ok. Do you see the ar15 that i am holding with a former member of the Judiciary Committee trey gowdy from South Carolina . Yes, sir, i do. And can you tell by looking at that gun if that gun has ever killed anybody . No, i cannot. And why is that . Because, frankly, i have, i dont know who is holding it, i dont know its history, but if i had to guess based on statistics alone there is a very, very high chance it has never been used to kill an innocent human being. Along with the 16 to 18 million guns that are in circulation in america right now . That is correct. The vast majority of them will never be used in criminal actions. And are those individuals, and let me just tell you from my experience in my district in eastern colorado. An ar15 is used to kill raccoons that are or foxes or other animals that are predators and trying to disturb individuals, for, trying to, you know, kill chickens or disturbing agriculture in some way. Is that your understanding also of how some, im not saying a majority of that 16 to 18 million but some of those guns are used . Yes, its actually not suitable for a lot of more higherend hunting for larger game because its actually more suitable for, as you inferred, more varmint hunting, small predator hunting. Ok. And what would the effect, ms. Mueller, of this particular law that we are discussing now have on lawabiding citizens in terms of either using weapons to protect Domestic Animals or farm animals or for selfdefense . What would the effect be for those 16 to 18 million that weve just identified . It would criminalize us having the firearm that we choose to use. As she said, her mother was able to use accurately, and i dont understand some of the conversation that were having about making it more difficult for the 100 Million People that might have these weapons, make it more difficult for them to control or use properly. Gentlemans time has expired. I yield back. Mr. Richmond, youre recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I dont necessarily profess to be an expert in hunting varmint, but my general sense is that if you hit them with an ak15, youre not hunting them, youre killing them. Thats the only purpose of doing it. Let me just get two things straight with mrs. Swearer and mrs. Mueller. Both of you mentioned that the purpose you see, especially your mother choosing her firearm was accuracy and stopping power. So when you describe characteristics for selfdefense, you would characterize stopping power and accuracy as primary objectives . Yes, sir. Yes, if i have a threat, i want it to stop. Ok. Now let me go to chief brackney. Lets take the gun fn57 which has zero knock down power but its bullets will go through your shield if you have an armored shield and your vest. If it has zero stopping power what selfdefense purpose does that gun, the fn57 have . It would not. When you think about stopping power and the risk of being on the other end or the receiving end of those highvelocity, highcapacity rounds, and things that can go through them, you want to think about accuracy. I do appreciate the story about a mom having the ability to be very accurate and to have a very tight capacity in putting rounds into place. So think of the damage that if my mom, who is 78, god bless her, if she decided she wanted to be extremely accurate. What about the person who is very well intentioned, how accurate could they be, how quick could they be in the damage they could do very well intentioned . Let me also ask because i know that our Law Enforcement every day stop people who are citizens of the United States but who also answer to another calling and cause called sovereign citizen. If we just take my district since ive been in congress, ive lost 5 officers who were overpowered by perpetrators because they were better armed than my Police Officers. One of which was in baton rouge, louisiana. Both within, we can argue over an Assault Rifle, how we determine it, but lets just for purpose of this hearing call them weapons of mass destruction because there are three officers in baton rouge who will never see them again and two in st. John parish because in st. John parish it was a traffic stop that initiated. A sovereign citizen does not recognize Law Enforcements ability to stop them. So they exited the car with the trailer with an assault weapon, ambushed the officers and they never had a chance. If we go to baton rouge, the officers responded to the call, knew the perpetrator was dangerous but they had handguns. He had a long gun wearing body armor, and they never stood a chance. So in the sense of patrolling, and i guess im trying to make a balance in between that need for a weapon of mass destruction and the need for selfdefense because i think of my family. But when i thought about my family not being necessarily the best in marksmanship, i thought about having a shotgun, which has a wide spray. Then theres a gun called the judge, which is a, could fire. 357 bullet, a revolver, or fire a shotgun shell, which is great for selfdefense. But the question becomes, why such large capacity magazines on these assault weapons and Assault Rifles if were talking about hunting . When you hunt, you miss, you load up again, you try again. But if your goal is mass carnage, then you just keep pulling your trigger or install a bump stock and you can create multiple carnage. From a Law Enforcement standpoint, im trying to figure out for the home, selfdefense, are we really talking about selfdefense when were talking about these weapons of mass destruction . And god forbid, if you lived in an apartment complex or a community with attached homes, how the bullets will go through the walls and travel apartment after apartment after apartment if you have the wrong one. So, if your Law Enforcement estimate, does the selfdefense argument hold water when youre talking about weapons that shoot such high velocity projectiles and has such large capacity magazines . Thank you for that. In 2009 in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, april 4, a domestic case, an individual had a weapon for protection in their home. Three officers responded to that domestic because a dog urinated on the floor. When they arrived, immediately open fired, ambushed. I lived three homes down from that killing. The person, the perpetrator shot the officers immediately in the face as soon as they opened the door that went through their vests. He then proceeded with his highpowered weapon to shoot the second officer, who thought he was playing possum, he shot him in the face. That officer with a widow and two small children. An offduty officer was responding from around the corp. He got out of his car, he unloaded 30 rounds into that officer who lay dying on the street as we exchanged over 600 rounds. We were outgunned, outfired, outfirepowered at that time. That weapon was supposed to be for protection of his home. It was definitely used as an assault weapon to murder three officers in the city of pittsburgh. And that city has been traumatized. I mean, its been ten years exactly to this date. Thank you. Thank you. The time of the gentleman has expired. The gentleman from texas. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mayor, i was curious, you indicated in your testimony that youre here basically to ask us to do something. What bill would you like to be passed to effectively, in your words, do something . Well, theres a number of bills. What would be your favorite . Well, i would first, for this body, the assault weapon ban bill that mr. Cicilline put forward. That is thoughtful and should move forward. That bill would affect the dayton shooting, frankly. It would make a great difference so there wont be cities like dayton that experience this kind of trauma. I appreciate that. We hear people, especially in this committee, at times say even if its wrong, we need to do something. And thats not the way you maintain a Constitutional Republic and you maintain any freedom if its not very thoughtful. Doctor, you were mentioning the wounds, the horrific wounds you were dealing with. You mentioned normally you are dealing with pencil hole entries that are sometimes hard to find. Those pencil hole entries are normally made by a. 223 caliber, barely a hair bigger than a. 22. Isnt that right . You were looking at more like a. 308 because it was more similar to an ak47 wound, correct . I dont know the types of weapons. Nomenclature. To my understanding basically, the manufacturer of an ak47 that is much, much bigger than the ar15, which is a. 223 round. Just barely bigger than a. 22, whereas the aka, the nomenclature in the army, 762 but basically like a. 308. And those can do devastating damage. My understanding is that somebody privately made that and sold that. Apart from shotgun wounds, which are also devastating because of the large impact, i havent seen anything like this in my history as a trauma surgeon and since. I appreciate the help you provided. You talked about the use of guns between 500,000 to 2 million times a year, is that correct . Yes, sir. Its rather amazing that that many times people would need to use guns to defend themselves, rather shocking. But i certainly appreciate your comments about your mom. It is easier to fire one of those. I have to disagree with you when you say it has the maximum stopping power. After vietnam, we were taught that, in the army that we went to the m16, now the m4, same nomenclature. Same. 223 size round, that it was faster and might be more likely to wound but not, it doesnt have the stopping power of a. 308. To be clear, congressman, i would not disagree with you. My intent is to show it has more stopping power than a handgun so she can use it more accurately and effectively. I have to did disagree with you there. 45,. 38,limeter, a they have a lot more stopping power than an ar15. 223 round, correct . I would disagree with you in some cases. You dont think a bullet hole from a 9millimeter would do more damage than a. 223 round . I would much more have a 9millimeter than no firearm but generally speaking its a combination of both stopping power. Dont you acknowledge that your mother was more comfortable with the. 223 because it doesnt have the kick, its not as intimidating, you can refire it more easily, correct . Part of that is the inherent setup of a rifle. You say the gun stats go back and forth, or crime rate, rather, go back and forth over the years. It seems to me it was related to putting criminals in jail, tough on crime, the pendulum swings back, but now it seems the pendulum is swinging against lawabiding citizens for the first time and that really is a concern. I yield back. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman from georgia. Thank you, mr. Chairman. 25 years ago we passed a law that prevented the manufacture or sale of assault weapons for ordinary americans and it made a difference. Mass shooting fatalities dropped 70 between 1994 and 2004. 15 years later, congress failed the American People by a llowing the assault weapons ban to sunset. That was in 2004. Since then, weve had repeatedly failures. Weve had repeated failures to make even modest reforms to un fettered gun access in the United States. Because of our 15 years of inaction, were living a tragedy. A tragedy of repeated horrific events interspersed with lulls where American Freedom and safety and justice crumble before our very eyes. For what . Because folks are afraid of the nra . Theres a time for moderation, for cautious restrained debate, but that ended when sandy hook happened. When parkland, pulse nightclub, el paso, then dayton happened. Now is the time for justice to reassert itself, and time for congress to do the right thing. According to recent polls, 7 out of 10 people are in favor of a ban on the manufacture and sale of assault weapons. Theres broad consensus on this issue because it makes sense. Weve done it before, we can do it again, and i look forward to hearing from our esteemed panel of witnesses on this topic. Now, the protection of lawful commerce and arms act was passed in 2005, the year after Congress Allowed the assault weapons ban to expire. In the protection of lawful commerce and arms act prohibits people from filing wrongful death lawsuits against gun manufacturers and gun dealers. When the families of the sandy hook victims took Remington Outdoor company to court for Mass Marketing assault weapons to civilians, specifically for Mass Shootings, it took the case five years just to overcome a challenge under the plcaa. And that was one of the success stories. What we dont see are all of the assault weapons cases that are not brought into civil court because of plcaa. Now, mr. Chipman, how does the existence of the protection of lawful commerce and arms act prevent victims and their families from seeking justice . It blocks them from holding an industry accountable before a court of law, like every other business in america is held accountable. Civil suits often act as a regulator to prevent negligent acts by companies that otherwise have no regulatory incentive to act in the best interest of consumers. Not just negligent acts but intentional acts and fraudulent acts to cover it up. Do you believe that assault Weapons Companies are taking steps to avoid negligence when they manufacture these devices and sell them to civilians . I think certainly their marketing these days is suspect. I think that even the markings on the ar receivers made in dayton, like not made in my shole country are thinking marketing to a certain type of extreme and violent part of this country. Weve seemed to balance this with cigarettes. People lawfully smoke but protect the marketing. Also the other thing that has been effective in keeping data out is just the restrictions placed on me at atf, that data that wouldnt hurt my criminal investigations but might be useful to this panel to decide what crime guns are the most popular amongst criminals, how do they get in criminals hands. You dont have access to that data. Its blocked. I think theres a whole host of things that make it very difficult to hold this industry accountable like we hold accountable other industries. Thank you. If plcaa was overturned or rescinded, what difference do you think it could make in how Companies Sell or manufacture assault weapons . Wed have to see how things played out in court and i have faith that courts would do the right thing to protect our nations. Thank you. My time has expired and i yield back. Gentleman yields back. The gentleman from arizona. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Fewer than 1 in 50 of all prisoners that were incarcerated for a Violent Crime obtained a firearm from a local retail source and possessed, carried or used it for the offense for which they were in prison. Among the 287,400 prisoners who had possessed a firearm during their offense, more than half either stole it, found it at the scene of the crime, obtained it off the street or from the underground market. Thats the reality of where people get guns who use them for a crime. 1. 3 of prisoners get guns from a retail source. 1. 3 . Thats the reality of where people get guns, regardless of what kind of gun they have. Studies have indicated very clearly that higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of Violent Crime. Switzerland and israel have much higher gun ownership than the United States but experience much far fewer homicides, canada is ranked 12th in the world for guns per capita and has one of the worlds lowest homicide rates. Some provinces have higher homicide rates than United States states with higher restrictive law and lower gun ownership. The Brady Campaign against gun violence ironically makes clear this point. Gun freedom states that score poorly have some of the lowest homicide rates. Conversely, gun control states that received high scores like maryland and illinois experienced some of the nations highest homicide rates. Legally owned firearms used for lawful purposes much more often be than used to create crimes or suicide. In 2013, president barack obama ordered cdc to assess existing research on gun violence. This is what they found. According to the cdc, selfdefense can be an important crime deterrent. Semiautomatic rifles such as the ar15 are commonly used in selfdefense, especially in homes of lawabiding citizens because theyre easier to control than handguns. More versatile than handguns and often the advantage of up to 30 rounds of protection. Here are some examples of when an ar15 has been used to save laws. Save lives. Illinois, 2018, a man with an ar15 stopped a mans knife attack. Intimidation is why the man dropped the knife and ended the attack, saving the victim. North carolina, 2018, a 17yearold successfully fought off three armed attackers his ar15, saving his own life. Houston, texas, 2017, a homeowner survived a driveby shooting by defending himself with his ar15. Broken arrow, oklahoma, 2017, a homeowners son killed three wouldbe burglars with an ar15. It was found to be justifiable selfdefense. Texas, 2013, a 15yearold boy used an ar15 during a Home Invasion to save his own life and his 12yearold sister from a violent armed intruder. Rochester, new york, homeowners fled after facing an ar15. You served as a Law Enforcement officer when the previous weapons ban was in place. Did you see any impact anecdote etally . Anecdot i have previously testified i did not see any before, during, or after. I am listening to these numbers and i would like to followup on the 70 less likely to occur during assault weapons ban. I dont understand that. Well, it was contested. Cdc did thed, the study and did not come up with the same conclusions. Is there anything else you heard today that you would like to respond to . There is a lot. Press on. Is that 26 seconds . Yes. Congressman richmond as a ready gun has already gone. Recoil. An, it is less i love this little gun. A 57. Not a. 57, it is it holds three rounds for a pistol that is good. It has kind of a weird grip, but that allows me to protect myself better. And it does have knockdown power, yes. My goal here is to educate people. We are lawabiding, responsible gun owners. Please dont legislate the 150 Million People just like me into being criminals. It has happened. You have already done it. The legislation on bump stocks, i was a bump stock owner, and i had to make a decision, do i become a felon or comply . Like that gentleman that was just escorted out, i will not comply. Will not comply with the assault weapons ban. The gentlemans time has expired. The gentleman from florida. Lling thisou for carlink important hearing. Welcome to all the advocates. I would especially like to welcome all of my constituents. I ask unanimous consent to include statements from them into the record. I see no objection. I will move on. Jen is the mother of jamie, a vibrant, beautiful freshman at Marjorie Stoneman douglas when she was killed. Shesaid that on that day lost her best friend and now must live with the image of her child running down the hallway away from an ar15. Ryan was a freshman and survivor of the shooting. He and others went on to found the march for our lives movement. In his testimony, ryan says i am not just asking for change, i am begging for it, because i dont want to live in a country where every other day i have to read about innocent lives ripped away. Here is my response to what i have heard today. We have heard over and over about the people who needed to have these guns need to have these guns because they are easy to hunt critters, because they can be used for selfdefense. These guns can also be used to hunt people. I have been carrying around this februarypaper since 15th, 2018. Im going to read whats on it. Scott, 35, martin, 14, nick, 17, aaron, 37, jimmy got berg, 14, chris hixon, 49, carol, 14, alayna, 14, 15. , 14, peter, every one of those at Stoneman Douglas will never be older than that age on the day they were killed. I understand the importance of the Second Amendment, but how it is that we can have a hearing where one of the witnesses topares these weapons shoes is just beyond me. Ive got another list. Dagan, nine killed, 17 injured dayton, nine killed, 17 injured. Orlando, 49 killed, 53 injured. Including, 27 killed,. 6 sevenyearold babies el paso, 22 killed, 24 injured. Pittsburgh tree of life, 11 killed, six injured. At Stoneman Douglas, there were also 17 who were injured. I understand that this is not easy for everyone, but i want everyone to understand how for the lives who have been wrecked from the face of this earth ripped from the face of this families, itir will never be the same. When welooking are looking, what we are trying to do here, why this hearing is so important is because we know there are things we can do to keep us safe. We heard some of them today. When you talked about how we can identify people who pose a threat, you are right, we can. Thats why we need to pass a red flag lot to keep dangerous guns out of their hands red flag keep dangerous guns out of their hands. You are right about that. We are here today to talk about something that can prevent these types of attacks. You talked about the National Firearms act regulations as a way to get assault weapons out of dangerous hands. You walked us through the process that it takes for someone to purchase a weapon regulated under that system, t ration with atf, registration with atf, background checks, fingerprints. After aassed valentines day massacre in 1929. We had a valentines day massacre in 2018 in my community. Have there been efforts, are there people clamoring for us to repeal the National Firearms act . The industry is working very hard to work around it. It is a law that has been in effect have we seen at sawedoff shotguns used as much as we have seen these other weapons in Mass Shootings . No, it is a law that works. We should treat these assault weapons the same way we treat machine guns and sawedoff shotguns. I am immensely grateful you are holding this hearing today and i yield back the balance of my time. [applause] thee should be no rules of the house provided there should be no demonstrations of approval or disapproval from the audience. Documentsjection, presented by the gentleman from florida will be entered into the record. I now recognize the gentleman from ohio. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Define the type of guns the democrats want to ban. Make commentsto automatic firearms that just happen to have certain features like pistol grips and barrel trouts. So my automatic weapons what they magazine capacity of 10 rounds or more with scary a magazine with capacity of 10 rounds or more with scary features. Is that right . Yes. I think in your opening remarks, you talked about scary features, but they are just features. Other than the look, they dont change the way the weapon the impact the weapon may have on a bad guy trying to do someone harm, right . They dont change the function. Some of them protected lawful users from things like serious burns. The Second Amendment does not say the right to bear arms should not be infringed unless the gun has scary features. It does not say that. It does not. Do you think bad guys will follow this law . They have already failed to follow other laws. Only good guys come out love biting people will follow this guys,ight only good lawabiding people will follow , right . Yes. You will see millions of lawabiding citizens become felons overnight for nothing more than having scary looking features on firearms. Do you think if a criminal suspects that a person they are thinking about targeting for a crime, if they suspected that individual may have a firearm, you think there is less chance they target them for a crime . We actually know this to be the case. When you look at studies that have come out during the 1990s into burglary rates when individuals are home during a Home Invasion, they are lower in the United States than United Kingdom the United Kingdom. In the United States, there is a fear amongst people who commit burglaries and Home Invasions that there might be someone home who could do something. Bad guy is walking down the street, hes trying to figure out which home he is going to rub. In one driveway, there is a pickup truck with a gun rack, and the next driveway, there is a volkswagen with a Bumper Sticker that says orrick for orourke for president. Bad guys are not stupid, they are just bad, they are just people. They are not going to follow the law. What this legislation would do is make it more difficult for lawabiding people like you, like all kinds of folks, to protect themselves when some bad guy is bent on doing something wrong. Generally speaking, yes. It happens now between 500000 per year. 0 times do you want to add anything . Anybody in here who has endured any kind of unspeakable violence or lost loved ones, i want to say thank you, or, im sorry. I want somebody there immediately. I want you to be your own First Responder and i will be glad to talk to you about how to keep your family safe. I am sorry this has happened to you. Immediately. I want you tomy community is tho make sure that everybody is safe with a firearm. ,hese gun free zones, over 90 what we are talking about, these mass murders, are happening in gun free zones. Every time you guys legislate against the gun owners, you are counterproductive. It breaks my heart to hear these stories of these kids and their ages, and that you have to put people back together in the hospital. Sorry to interrupt. Let me ask you one question. On sale of this type of weapon as defined under legislation, but do you think this is just the first step . Do you take beto orourke at his word when he says we are going to take these types of weapons . Do think this is just step one there proposing . Yes they are proposing . Yes. Millions of gun owners are fearful in allowing this death by 1000 cuts. Every firearm is capable of being lethal. Didnt orourke probably expose a plan that they have been denying for so long did probably expose a plan that they have been denying for so long. The time of the gentleman has expired. The gentleman from california. I want to thank the gentleman from rhode island for bringing this legislation forward. , thank you for your work in the community. To hear the story of the first patient that came to you that day, but was it a scary looking feature that caused the death of that patient . I dont know what that gun looked like. I just know what the Bullet Wounds looked like and i know that when you have a highcapacity magazine, whether riflea semi automatic that you are reloading multiple times, you have the capability tohave devastating injuries multiple casualties. Would you agree when you put a pistol grip on a longer rifle where the round already has high velocity, highenergy, you can take the least skilled shooter and they can indiscriminately spray a crowd and the wound like the one you had to attend to can occur . I can assume so. It reminds me of a gunshot victim whose case i prosecuted in oakland where the victim was shot in the back of the thigh and he succumbed to the ones. His mom asked me, she said, i dont get it. You would think if you are shot in the leg or arm, you would survive. The ballistics expert and autopsy doctor said it was a long rifle round and 40 rounds were fired at him and he was hit just wants. It leaves just once. It leaves very little chance for survival. Thank you for your service to our country. Testimony and it seems to me that you support a ban on the future sales and manufacturing of assault weapons. Is that right . Yes, similar to what we did in 1986 with machine guns. I hear you and i agree with you as far as the National Firearms act and making sure they are registered, but would you agree that we want to ban future sales and manufacturing because it is a dangerous weapon different than a long rifle used for hunting or a pistol used for sport or a shotgun used to protect someone in their house, that this is just a different weapon . They are particularly lethal. I guess my concern is, because i want this bill to pass, i will look for it to pass, but as you described earlier vote for it to pass, but as you described earlier, if this passes, we will still leave millions, the nra estimates 15 million Assault Rifles in our communities. If these weapons are dangerous in the future, wouldnt you agree that they are dangerous now and that there has to be some way to protect people now from ever having their kids shot in the school, their parent shot sister h, there there sister shot at a concert r sister shot at a concert from one of these weapons . Most have to address the lethal weapons and i believe the National Firearms act is the best way to approach that. My example my proposal is that if it is dangerous in the future, it is dangerous now. It would be very hard for us to pass this legislation and then god for bid, there would be a mass shooting and after there was a celebration on the house steps that a weapon that was grandfathered in was used to take dozens of lives. We would have to explain to victims that we allowed those weapons to stay in use. I think it would create confusion among the public. After was on assault a ban on assault weapons, why was this weapon used . They had the ban, it didnt work. My proposal would be to do what australia did, have a buyback period. They could be used at a hunting club or shooting range, but nowhere else possessed in our community. They would be paid at market rate for these weapons. Australia did this and they were able to get off the streets 700,000. We will not get off as cheaply but it is not as if this is something that never happens. This is a first important step all of the witnesses for participating and families for being here. We are at this moment because these families picked themselves up from absolute grief. And marching, keep caring, we will see action, and we will all be safer. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman from california. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The arguments around these bills seem to have ignored that somehow they are going to keep these weapons out of the hands of criminals, and mad men, and terrorists. I dont share that faith. I look at how effective our drug laws have been in keeping drugs out of the hands of addicts and wonder if that faith is misplaced. Are the majority of the firearms already used in crimes already being arent the majority of the firearms already used in crimes already being obtained illegally . Yes. The majority of guns used in are obtained illegally. The other argument is that nobody has legitimate use for an ar15. These are not military weapons. The actual firing mechanism is the same as those used in a wide variety of legitimate hunting and target rifles and pistols. That said, i am a gun owner but i do not own an ar15 because i do not feel i need one. I might have a different opinion if i was in the third day in a hurricane disaster zone without power or Law Enforcement or if i was a late night clerk in a gang area or a Theater Owner who wanted to be able to protect my customers in a crisis, or if i was a border rancher where cartels are operating. Dont i have a right to make that decision for myself under the Second Amendment other than have one of my friends on the left make it for me . Yes, sir, especially with regard to commonly owned semi automatic firearms that have been commonly owned by lawabiding citizens for lawful purposes. We ought to be absolutely outraged by these growing incidents of Mass Shootings. We did not have problems like this, certainly not of this magnitude or frequency 50 years ago. What policies have changed in those 50 years that would explain this . It seems to me that there are three. 50 years ago, we used to execute murderers. We have largely stopped doing that. Could that have something to do with it . I am not familiar with whatever studies you may be referring to in regards to Capital Punishment and Mass Shootings, but i do know there are bigger factors underlying Mass Shootings. We used to put violent criminals in prison until they were old and feeble. Now we have sanctuary laws releasing dangerous criminals back into our communities. Could that have something to do with it . With regard to mass public shootings, that is not clear. A lot of gun crime is perpetrated by people with long histories of previously violent behavior. Most importantly, we use to the dangerously mentally ill when we identified them in a mental hospital, where we could keep them and prevent them from harming others. In 1958, my state of california, there were 37,000 mentally ill contained in mental hospitals. Many were dangerous to themselves or others. That would be over 100,000 today. Today, we only confine 7000. The rest of them are on the streets. Could that have something to do with it . Without meaning to come across as demonizing mentally some mentally ill people are dangerous. Those are the ones we can find. We have written on this specifically at the heritage foundation. There is a relationship between rates of violence, what we see in the mass deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill. 50 years ago, we had very few guncontrol laws. Today, we have a great many. If these laws were the answer to these massacres, shouldnt the problem be Getting Better by now . With regard to mass public shootings, yes, arguably. I would also say gun violence in general is more complex. I think that should be selfevident. When you go to a bank, you see an armed guard to protect our money. Why would anyone to object to an armed guard in a school to protect our children . I am not sure why anyone would object to protecting our nations children in the same way we protect other important places. We do not want to turn schools into some sort of prison function where people feel they are behind bars. Maybe we ought to have lethal force to protect our children. People go crazy over that, but they dont give a Second Thought to an armed guard in a bank. We know especially with regard to mass public shootings, one of the biggest factors is actually the quickness of the armed response to that shooting. That is one of the possible solutions, yes. The gentlelady from washington. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you all so much for being here. Your testimony was very powerful. This argument by from the other side that if i heard it right, that criminals do not follow laws, and therefore, what . We shouldnt have laws . That statement has no relevance to the existing debate account around gun reform, because fundamentally, it is completely irrelevant. It is just as meaningless as saying the sky is blue or my microphone is black or the grass is green. Definitionally, criminals dont follow laws. Thats what criminals are. Here is the paradox that the other side is putting forward. I think it is important to dismiss this argument for what it is, which is bogus, in my opinion. The paradox is this, lawabiding citizens obey the law, number are number two, criminals lawbreakers, therefore, they dont obey the law. Brilliant. Laws impose, restrictions on the behavior of only those that follow them, and therefore, number four, laws therefore only hurts lawabiding citizens. That would mean we should not have any laws at all, because definitionally, we are making laws based on the kind of society that we imagine. We expect that the vast majority of people are going to follow those laws and the people that do not will then have accountability. I just think it is a ridiculous argument. I do not understand why the other side keeps putting it forward. The data shows that Mass Shootings are becoming far more frequent and they are getting deadlier. My colleague gave a powerful statement, talked about all of the shootings. Most deadly Mass Shootings in modern history occurred in the last 20 years and eight of them in the last five years. Look at the amount of time in each of these shootings. Shootinglas vegas claimed an unprecedented 58 lives and 850 injuries in 10 minutes. El paso shooting claimed 22 lives and 24 were injured in less than six minutes. Dayton shooting, thank you, major for being here mayor, for being here. The dayton shooting claimed nine lives and dozens of injuries in just seconds. All of these by a shooter who legally purchased automatic weapons and highcapacity magazines. The Giffords Law Center finds that a person with an assault weapon is able to hurt and kill twice the number of people compared to a shooter with a nonAssault Rifle or handgun. Why is that . Think about just average people out there trying to understand this issue. What are the specific features of an assault weapon that are most dangerous . Let me talk about rifles specifically. When you are firing a round at over 3000 feet per second, as compared to a handgun, which is usually under 1000 feet per second, when it hits, it just destroys the body. For instance, i worked for gabby giffords. She would not have survived had she been shot with a rifle. It is just an entirely different category. If you mix the speed of the round and then the ability to asily carry 100 rounds in magazine, or 50, and you can fire as quick as the finger can pull, you do battle like wounds. In las vegas, the thought 20 years ago that i could have even imagined a shooting were a single gunman could have inflicted where a single gunman could have inflicted 58 deaths and hundreds wounded, many of them offduty officers, it is hard to imagine. It has everything to do with. The capabilities of the weapon when you said it has everything to do with the capabilities of the weapon. Explain what happens when the rifle round actually strikes. I would need the help of my dad, the mathematician, to do physics. When a piece of lead is flying at 3000 feet per second and hits you, its a lot different than if its going at 800 feet per second. Its just math. Results are catastrophic. Let me turn to the surgeon who treated victims from the parking shooting. She wrote the c. T. Scan of one of the victims of an ar15 showed an organ that looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer. Can you tell us from your perspective as a doctor, what do experience treating these individuals with these kinds of moments . That is accurate from what i experience. Om my not an Orthopedic Surgeon but i had an intestine coming out of bone. I have never seen that before and will never see that again. Thank you so much for everything that you did and thank you for your service, all of you. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman from virginia. Thank you. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. The horrifying acts of Mass Violence that our country has witnessed in recent years is totally unacceptable. We cannot tolerate the spread of violence and hatred in our nation. Unfortunately, todays hearing seeks to fill eyes one of americas most popular firearms instead of looking at ro solutions to prevent acts of violence from occurring in our communities. The 1991 until 2017, nations total Violent Crime rate decreased 48 . Meanwhile, americans purchased more than 11 million ar15s during that. During that period. Democrats want to paint the ar15 as a weapon solely used for war, when in reality, millions of men and women on these firearms and use them lawfully everyday. Many have chosen this as their firearm of choice. Our families, neighbors, and communities will not become safer if we confiscate firearms from innocent, lawabiding people. In fact, by restricting the fundamental freedom that allows people to defend themselves, democrats will endanger the lives of millions, who will no longer be able to adequately protect their families. It is our duty to ensure that we are protecting the American People by defending this document, the constitution, and the freedoms that are enumerated in it. Therepublic was founded on principle that government will not impede on these rights and we must uphold that here in this committee. Will ask if there was anything that was said today that you would like to respond to. There has been a lot that i wish we had the time to respond to, but i will take a couple of these in order. I think there is this sort of misunderstanding that if we can just get rid of ar15s, that somehow this is going to result in this massive reduction in gun violence. Again, it dramatically misunderstands the underlying factors of gun violence in this country. 2 3 of gun deaths are suicides. That does not matter if you have an ar15, handgun, or shotgun. It is irrelevant if you just replace the firearm. When we are talking about mass public shootings, we are talking about something that i think we all agree is devastating to communities, but it is a fraction of a percent of gun deaths every year. We are talking about switching out the same caliber rifle for something that is the same caliber in a different rifle, but now does not have a barrel trough or pistol grip and saying this is going to save a number of lives this year. We are looking at the wrong problems, so we are coming up with the wrong solutions. Even if this was fully effective , we are talking about a bare minimum of actually impacting rates of gun violence. We have to be looking at more meaningful factors than things like pistol grips. That is something that we can work on together if we would stop looking at scary features. Would you like to respond to anything that was said . Yes. Thank you. I understand everybody in this room wants to make a difference and we want to be safe. Firearm owners want to be safe. I hope you heard in my oral and written testimony that we, the firearms industry, is driving solutions. If you are really interested in having that conversation, thats why i formed the d. C. Project, is to come and make relationships, and help you be a resource. Lets go to the range and really understand what these firearms are and who that community is and how they use them. Those are your constituents as well. , the kids it again safe foundation, those are teaching your kids how to responsibly look at firearms. It does not mean they have to shoot them, but its just like a swimming pool. You teach your kids how to swim. You dont want them to go across a body of water at some point in their life and not know how to live. We are with you. We want you to be with us. Thank you. Thataid something earlier. Ave me pause when you said any weapon that can be misused to hunt a person should be banned, that applies to all weapons. Is it your contention that all weapons should be bent . The witness band . Banned . The witness may answer the question. Yes, weapons that are misused should be considered. We are looking at percentages of individuals injured based on weapons. The fact that we are willing to boil it down to simple numbers when it is actually lives and to say it is a percentage of or a consideration of a percentage of , we actually should be ashamed that we are willing to sacrifice the lives of individuals for data points. Do you want everyone in charlottesville to have a weapon . Ban somewere able to of the weapons coming from charlottesville, i think we would have had a better response from Law Enforcement. The gentlelady from florida. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. I am going to try to get my thoughts together, because i have been pretty amazed at some of the things i have heard, particularly from the other side of the aisle. Being herek you for on the behalf of the people that you represent. You are doing exactly what we would expect you to do as a mayor. I know your chief is here as well. Thank you, chief, for what you, and the men and women you represent do as well. I was a Law Enforcement officer. I spent 27 years. Owner, gun owner gun my father was a hunter. I am from orlando, where 49 people we have heard a lot about lawabiding citizens. Those 49 people who were in a nightclub that night were lobbed biting citizens. Citizens and they were not protected. 49 lost their lives. That does not include those with invisible wounds. One of my biggest fears as a police chief was worrying about the men and women who do the job who went home at the end of the night, because if we cannot protect them, we know the average citizen is at risk. I always knew they were going to be outmanned, because Law Enforcement always is. I certainly worried about them being outgunned. I have gone to more than my share of Law Enforcement funerals. We have got to do something about the number of a Mass Shootings that have occurred in a country that we say is the greatest country in the world. Say life where we first, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. My colleagues on the others of the aisle have offered nothing as a solution. I am interested in hearing more about your program. I was not familiar with that. Chief, it you said assault in 4, i inount for 1 5 Law Enforcement officer one in five month first and officers one in five Law Enforcement officers theriratethei ballistic their ballistic vests. I would like you to talk a minute about the men and women you command, the burden of keeping them safe. Where are you here today why are you here today . Thank you and i appreciate your service as well. For me personally, having experienced three officers die assaultburgh by an weapon, knowing there was nothing that we could do to protect them, knowing that one of our officers was lying there at that point in time saying over the air that he love his wife, to let her know. He loved his children knowing he was going today. We could not going to die. We could not get to him for hours as he lay dying and bleeding out as a result of that tragedy. As we know, charlotte revealed charlottesville experienced tragedy at the hands of hate. When you have a weapon that can devastate an entire community, i would be ashamed of any former Law Enforcement officer that says i will refuse to comply werea law that they sworn to uphold themselves. If you have to go home every night thinking about where your team, the people who are out there, whether they come home alive every day, if you have that burden to bear and you could see the secondary trauma forced upon families as they look out the doors to see if their parents are coming home, whatever that person is, who is willing to give their life for a stranger. We talk about what greater love is that . We dont ever amend or talk about that we restricted your First Amendment rights. You cannot say anything at anytime. No right is absolute. Thats exempt right. If we are with exactly right. If we are willing to amend what you can say, why wouldnt we consider amending something that could cause devastation in communities. Mr. Chairman, youll back. I yield back. The gentleman from florida. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The right of the people to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. It says arms, plural. Not certain types of arms, it says arms. I stand by the constitution and the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It has everything to do with your constitutional right to defend yourself, your family, and others. This is step number one and the democrats plan to in the to take awayan your firearms. Now that we have taken your semi automatic rifles away, now we will take your semi automatic handguns away. Now that we have taken all of your guns and the government has your guns, now we have turned into venezuela and cuba. There is absolutely no difference in the function of an ar15 and a semi automatic handgun, none, absolutely no difference. As fast as you can press the trigger is as fast as around round willut as a come out. The weapon i was issued when i did serve in Armed Conflict was much different than what is available commercially today. Issued in the was United States army had a selector switch for three round burst and fully other medic. That is not fully automatic. That function is not available to the general public. This term Assault Rifle is a fiction. It does not exist. Light, justr armor the company that manufactured the original ar15. There is no such thing as an Assault Rifle. If i threw my cup at someone here and killed them, that would be an assault cup. We are using a fiction to demonize a certain type of weapon. Isnt it true that an ar15 discharges a round every time that you depress the trigger . Is that correct . Yes, thats correct. Is it also correct that every time you depress the trigger of your service revolver, they just that a that a round is dispersed . Is that correct . Yes, based on the social contract i have two police society, that to police society, that is correct. The functionality of an ar15 and semi automatic handgun is identical, because at the moment you press a trigger, a round comes out of the weapon. Is that correct . In the purest sense, yes. When we are talking about the targets and the behaviors and the impact of those, it is very different than the functionality. I am talking about the functionality. That is what you are all talking , the functionality of an ar15. I was here when you said this and correct me if i am misstating and we can have the reporter read back exactly what you said verbatim. You said anything used to hunt people should be banned. Is that correct . Any weapon that can be used to hunt individuals should be bent. Ok banned. You stand for the proposition firearm,y type of because any firearm can be used to kill people . There is a social contract we have. Based on your statement, you said anything used to hunt people should be banned. Thats what you stated. I am clarifying. Your Statement Today is that all firearms because they can be used to hunt people should be banned. That is not my statement. You have not clarified my statement. You have added a statement for me. Why dont you clarify exactly what you said and we can take a break and have a clerk back exactly what you say did stated. Its my understanding that any firearm can be point of order. The gentleman will suspend. I was in a hearing yesterday in the Judiciary Committee, the subcommittee for immigration, where one of my colleagues from the Minority Side stated that it witnessight to attack a that comes forth in the manner that he has been incriminating and in tacking attacking our Law Enforcement officer. If he could please tone down his words. The gentleman controls a time. I had 32 seconds when she asked for a point of order. If you want to be so strict, you get seven seconds back. So you support banning all firearms or anything used to be able to hunt people, is that correct . You are actually conflating two. You said support banning firearms or anything that could hunt people. That was not my statement. What was your statement . My statement was, and please, i dont have it verbatim, that i do support weapons that are used to hunt people that they be b anned. So any type of weapon that can be used to hunt people should be banned is the statement . Could he repeat that . The gavel was going off. That canpe of weapon be used to kill people should be banned . You are adding the word type. I said any weapon. Thats my answer. Thank you. The gentlelady from texas. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for having this very important hearing that many of us have been waiting for. To all the families and those that are here that have lost a loved one, thank you for being here. I know that every time you have to sit and listen to this kind of testimony and the backandforth, it brings back so many memories. Weleased to know that feel your pain and are getting ready to do something about it. One of my colleagues said that the democrats, even if its wrong, we have to do something. I have to tell you that what we are doing is right. It is not only right for us to do it. I think our country demands it. Everywhere i go, this issue comes up, whether it is a town hall meeting with the veterans or a town hall meeting with seniors, everybody is concerned about gun violence, and not just with these types of weapons, but any weapon. I grew up poor on a farm in south texas. I was taught to use a rifle and shotgun on early age. Both were used at an early age. Both were used for hunting or were always ready to protect us and our property. I still keep a shotgun at my home. Fortunately, i have never had to use it. To me, that is what guns are for , for hunting and protecting our property. You dont need a weapon that kills 910 people in 30 seconds to go hunting to put food on the table. You dont need that either to protect your property. Assault weapons are frankly, in my view, just for killing people. Weapons are designed to effectively and efficiently kill as many as possible. We in texas have suffered from this, as many other states have, and it is time for all of us to act. I support the bill that is before us. Frankly, sometimes i think it needs to be even stronger. I want to start with you. Testimony, you say that one other option might be to have the registration of all existing assault weapons under the nfa while banning the funeral manufactures future manufacture and sale of these firearms. Are all the other gun violence groups in accordance with this position . It is based on giffords. I dont want to speak for other organizations on that. It is based on my experience that a law was meant to keep the most dangerous weapons out of criminal hands. Only three out of every 1000 crime guns traced by atf is a machine gun. If we want to focus on other types of weapons, i would suggest we have a timetested law that has been on our books since the 1930s. Lets take that approach. What is your position on the buyback programs . I think that we should be looking to america, not australia, for solutions. Passed at the nfa was a time when we had a similar problem, very lethal weapons. I would suggest it is a balance that would honor the rights of people who have these guns to keep them if they were properly regulated and understood that there are so many of them out there that like machine guns, you know, it would prevent them from being manufactured and sold in the future. I think that strikes a reasonable balance between and the rights of all americans not to get shot. I wanted to put another idea that came from a senior in a senior town hall meeting i had in my district a couple of weeks ago. Although it was about senior issues, social security, medicare, she approached me after the meeting with a list. She has six or seven suggestions. One caught my eye. She thinks we should place a chip when you make them, in other words, at manufacturing, inside those giant guns, she was referring to assault weapons, so that they can be tracked so we know where they are to maybe stop an incident before it happens. Have you ever looked at an idea like that . We have not that we have looked at an idea like that. One of the challenges for Law Enforcement is that when you crime, itfirearm in a is very useful to know who owns it. The ability to trace a gun, to take shell casings left at a crime scene and be able to tie those back to a gun and the shooter are very useful. I think with a chip in all guns, the reality is that most guns are lawfully owned, so thats a lot of data we dont need. I would be more focused on what can help cops solve gun crimes quickly and animatedly. Yelledd back yield back. I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, too, as properly interpreted by the Supreme Court. The Second Amendment gives you the right to a handgun for purposes of selfdefense and a rifle for purposes of hunting and recreation. Nowhere does it give you a right to weapons of war, machine guns, armored tanks, or anything like that. Is there anybody on the panel that disagrees with that . Is there anybody on the panel that believes the Second Amendment gives you the right to own a machine gun . Does anybody think it gives you the right to own an armor tank . Armored tank . Yes, sir. Does it give you the right to Nuclear Weapons . You started out with the machine gun and we can legally own machine guns if we go through the rich mans game of the nfa. You are for unrestricted access to michigans . Out machine guns . I would look at that, yes. You think there is a constitutional right to own a machine gun. I think there is a constitutional right to own the equivalent of the same sort of functions that a musket would be , just as we have extended the First Amendment to include technological advancement, we included the same sorts of things with the Second Amendment. I think the Supreme Court has found the proper phrasing, commonly on for lawabiding purposes. Is it useful for lawabiding purposes . The answer for a lot of people is yes. Both of you say people should be allowed to purchase machine guns the same way they should be allowed to purchase ar15s, which at the same way they should be allowed to purchase handguns . My distinction with actual fully automatic weapons might be a bit different. Let me go on. I appreciate that. Paso. Ou are from el your testimony was stunning to me. There is something you said that will haunt me for a long time. I want you to elaborate. You are called back, you are supposed to be going home that night. You were called back after the massacre took place to try to say people. As i understand, you helped save and your colleagues help save more than a dozen people. Is that right . Yes, it was a large team effort. But you lost one person who i guess was the first patient you worked on. You said you will always carry the guilt of that with you. I remembered a passage i once said how russo, who often audacity and pride are on the side of the guilty and how often shame and guilt are on the side of the innocent. I wonder why you would feel guilty trying to save a personss life who was assassinated by an assault weapon. I felt guilty and still feel like i could have done more. I wanted to do more, but the fact is i had 10 patients there and reports of maybe up to 20, 40 patients. I had no idea. I could not spend as much time as i wanted to on that one patient when i knew i had 20 or 30 coming in. Are you still practicing now in el paso . Yes. How do you feel about the possibility of selling some people machine guns under their socalled Second Amendment rights . I would not agree with that but the Second Amendment stands. It has been misrepresented, distorted. The National Rifle association used to be a moderate, mainstream organization that supported gun safety regulation, then it was hijacked for political purposes, and the idea was to oppose all gun safety regulation to try to drive a wedge between the rural parts of america and metropolitan parts of america. It has worked like a dream from political standpoint. These are our people. These are americans shot down by weapons of wr which you think the Second Amendment covers. You said you have friends in the military that do not prefer the air 15 because they want some ar15 because they want something with greater stopping power. Would you explain what that means . War and their job in come back to kill people combat to kill people. They were telling me it is not an effective round. What you said before it is that they preferred a weapon with greater stopping power. The gentlemans time has expired. The witness may answer the question. Stopping power is stopping a threat. If this person needed to be round, it was not a good to do that. The weapons that killed in el paso or dayton did not have enough explosive force . Is that it . Correct. The gentleman yields back. The gentlelady from georgia. I would like to thank my colleague from colorado for yielding to me for a few moments to go first. I want to thank all of our witnesses here today. Most definitely, i want to thank survivors, their families, and all the activists taking their time to discuss this important issue. The current prevalence of assault weapons was the result of not of action, but of inaction. Congress did not end the assault weapons ban by lifting it, but by simply allowing it to expire. I believe inaction has most definitely cost lives. Tragically, we have seen extremely little action to address gun violence in the past several decades. I am pleased to be part of this present moment in which we are finally having hearings like this to illuminate the multifaceted problem of gun violence. End this measure will epidemic, but we know that there are bills that will save lives. The house has all ready passed some of those. Universal background checks, closing the charleston loophole, and we are continuing to explore other laws. The house has also passed an appropriations package that funds gun violence prevention research. Again, senate inaction is maintaining the status quo. Over 200 days 8ince the house has passed hr to require universal background checks. In that 200 days, the senate has done nothing. The house voted to provide a package to0 million find gun violence research, but a Senate Proposal instead recommends nothing. Paying for senate inaction with their lives. Another 100 people to gun violence every single lose another 100 people to gun violence every single day. Every day, 100 families face a new and terrible loss. Inaction is absolutely unacceptable. Id like to say for anyone on this panel, unless you have experienced gun violence you have no idea the burden of loved ones lost. The burden that it has on their families, and their communities. Dr. Brakney, how did the expiration of the assault weapons ban affect Law Enforcement . Thank you. I am in complete agreement with you. When we are too cowardly to face issues and instead let them to expire like we would milk in our refrigerator instead of taking some sort of action and as we know, in any other field, thinking of the medical field, there are often incremental steps that we take to develop medication for curing cancers. We dont say that until we have the cure we will do nothing. We are doing something similar with Law Enforcement. The attacks on Law Enforcement, and the ambushes on Law Enforcement are increases and people are emboldened that not only the weapon and the capacity to do that but the prevalence of where they can get the weapons, and also, ghost weapons to buy the pieces and the parts of it to get around, again, legislation when it is coming to what you must be required to do in order to obtain a weapon legally. This is an absolute atrocity. I have attended those funerals of officers over the 35 years that i have been in Law Enforcement, and the more than three decades plus that i have been in Law Enforcement, and it is continuing to hold a pit in your stomach for every person that you see that has been lost a life, but also it moves close intricately outward and moves concentrically outward and affects an entire nation, and the last shootings that we can remember in dayton stopped the country and we held our breath for literally days, and then we forgot about the shooting that occurred just wille and probably we forget about the next one as well. And ms. Rand, we know that as well. And ms. Rand, we know that assault weapons are the weapons of choice for mass shooters, and what do we know about why they choose these weapons . Well, i think that the firepower that assault weapons affords a shooter gives them more bravery. Outgunel like they can Law Enforcement. And back to the example of columbine, that it is a little known fact that there were armed guards at columbine who engaged in fire with harris and klebold, but they were unable to stop them because they were outgunned by the assailants assault weapons. So i think it provides them with a sense of bravery that they would not otherwise have. They know they can confront Law Enforcement, and they can kill a number of people very quickly, and you know, i think that also if you are looking at the marketing of these weapons, they are sold using the militarized imagery, and now we are seeing assailants who copy that. They come with body armor. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and of course thank ms. Mcbath,lleague, who always speaks truth to power in such an incredible way. Chief brackny, you commented on this, but i would like to have you expand on this further. How long have you been in Law Enforcement . A woman should not tell her age, but 35 years, and maybe they hired me when i was really young. How long have you been chief . I have been the chief of charlottesville for 15 months and i was a chief in George Washington university for three years prior to that and 31 years with the city of pittsburgh to command the swat teams and major crimes, et cetera thank you for the service. The reason that i asked this is because my colleague from florida on this side of the aisle was right to point out in the parliamentary inquiry and request that i took umbrage at the way in which my colleague interacted with you in the prior exchange, that someone of your caliber and someone who has served your community and your country and here today to testify on the importance of us taking commonsense steps to prevent the pervasive violence that is ravaging the communities across the country and i did not think that the exchange was reflective of the way that the committee and its members ought to conduct itself. And so thank you, again, for being here today and with the testimony. I would like the associate myself with the remarks of my esteemed colleague from georgia. Military style assault weapon have no place in schools, in theaters, in communities. In colorado, we know this well. We lived through columbine 20 years ago, where 13 individuals were killed in a matter of 16 minutes. We grieved after aurora where 12 people were killed and 58 others injured. Militarystyle assault weapons are designed to kill people quickly and efficiently in large capacity magazines that are often the choice for mass shooters because they allow the shooter to fire a large number of rounds and quickly reload. Inactions on this issue as so many of my colleagues have said and as so many of the witnesses have attested to, and it is putting our students, our children, and our community in harms way. I, for one, believe that we cannot allow it. When we see Mass Shootings in the news, every single month, we know that it is time to act. We owe it to those we have lost and to the survivors and some of whom are here in the audience today, the survivors of columbine, aurora, las vegas, orlando, newtown, sutherland springs, el paso. We owe it to them, and i am grateful to my chairman and colleagues for holding this hearing to take action. I will say that the difference between my home state and congress is that colorado had the courage to act. In colorado, we passed a high capacity magazine ban in 2013 as a broad attempt to reform the gun laws following the aurora theater shooting the year before. Tois past time for Congress Take up his reforms. My question, mr. Chipman, thank you for your service, and as Law Enforcement officer for putting your life on the line, i know that given your experience, you these weapons that we are speaking of today. Why do you believe is important that we have a conversation now about assault weapons, and what about your experiences have led you to believe that we need reform . Because they are getting more lethal, and we should have this conversation decades ago. The firearms industry continues to make more lethal firearms and congress is not keeping up with technology. We see it in smaller weaponry like my panel member likes to have because it is easier to carry around in the car, but it was used to kill a milwaukee Police Officer, because it was able to defeat the bulletproof vest. So, to me, we should not tip the scales on the side of just convenience, but of the right to live in a country absent the fear of getting shot and killed in the line of duty or at a Movie Theater or in your daily affairs. With that, i see my time is closely expiring, mr. Chairman, so i say thank you to the chairman and the Witnesses Today for appearing and your testimony. We appreciate it. The gentleman yields back. The gentle lady from pennsylvania, ms. Dean. No . Okay. The gentle lady from texas, ms. Escobar. Thank you, chairman, and thank you, ms. Dean, so much for switching with me. I want to thank everyone here, people who traveled here to be with us here today at this very important hearing. People who stood in a long line for a long time in order to get in. I want to thank the panel. I want to especially thank the panelist who is my constituent, dr. Alex rios stovar, thank you for everything that you did to save so many lives. As we have heard today, there are far too many people on this Judiciary Committee who represent communities who have been impacted by gun violence, and my community, el paso, texas, is unfortunately now part of that very sad and tragic club. On the day of the shooting, august 3rd, i received calls from colleagues who knew too well what we were going through in el paso, and the very next day, dayton entered the awful club, and days later, odessa entered the awful club. Part of why i invited you, doctor, to come here, and part of why i wanted the American People and the congress to hear your testimony is because too often we dont understand what happens literally to people who are shot up by these weapons of mass destruction. I want to Say Something before i ask you the question i am about to ask you. That day, august 3rd, el paso was a victim of not just the gun violence epidemic, but also the hate epidemic of this country. And last week, we passed legislation, and we marked up legislation out of this committee that began to address that hate epidemic, and it is shocking to me that some of the people who use the language that fuels that hate epidemic of wondering if we need to pass laws about the hate epidemic. But as long as we have people pushing that language and that racism, we will need laws that protect communities like mine. And as long as we have people who say, i deserve to have a weapon of mass destruction so i can shoot critters, as we have heard today, or so i can have an accessory like shoes, as we have heard today, then we will continue to see massacres and bloodshed. We are here today to create change. So that communities like mine will not have to endure what we endured, because the consequence is longlasting. Tovar, you told us about what you witnessed this day, and what you lived through that day. Can you share with us what you emotionally and mentally live with today as a First Responder in health care . Dr. Rios tovar thank you for the question. I am not embarrassed to say that, that sunday, i bawled like a child for half an hour. I went through the Facebook Page of one of those victims, and saw that their, that baby is going to live without parents, and is an orphan now. And that week, once my patients the no longer on ventilator, they would wake up in the middle of the night on call. The nightmares that they would that i have not been able to sleep for about a month since that tragedy occurred. I encourage all of those who have been affected by a tragedy like this, to seek counseling, because it is important to recognize that not just the victims, and the victims families, but the First Responders and even those who are not present, theres a lot of guilt that comes to providers who were not available to respond, because they feel like they should have been there to help out as well. So there is a lot of room for, for therapy and for counseling for the entire community. I think it is very helpful. Doctor, thank you so much for everything that you did to save all of the lives and to touch all of the lives that you did. You are a hero. All of these deaths and all of this pain was needless, and we can change that today. Thank you. Gentle lady yields back. The gentle lady from pennsylvania. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I thank all of the testifiers and advocates for being here. I thank the advocates or the testifiers for the minority, because you have proven how weak your argument is. Mr. Chairman, i wanted to take a look at if i could have a slide brought up a little bit of the history of the conversation of where this country stood. Take a look. We are writing to urge your support for the ban of the domestic manufacturer of militarystyle assault weapons. Statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals and we urge you the listen to American Public and Law Enforcement, and support a ban on the further manufacturer of these weapon, sincerely , gerald r. Ford, jimmy carter, and ronald reagan. This should not be a political issue. In 2004, we had an opportunity to save even more lives by authorizing the ban. George w. Bush favored this extension of the lifesaving law. Would you play the clip . Sorry. I guess we dont have it. Could you hold the clock, is that possible . Do we have the clip . It is a clip of president george w. Bush. I see that we are having problems with the volume. There we go. Bush so i have made my views clear. I think we should extend the assault weapons ban. Unfortunately, he was not able to persuade enough of the colleagues and the ban expired through inaction. This should not be a political debate. I will tell you what has changed and what has made it a political debate among politicians only, and not americans. Moer than 500,000 americans have died from gun violence and america has suffered more than 300 Mass Shootings per year, and the nra ramped up the lobbying of the republican members and the republican members on this very committee, 17 of whom the nra spent a record, excuse me, spending a record 54 million in 2016 elections alone and every Single Member of the republican side of this dias has accepted Campaign Contributions and other support to a total of 1. 2 million total. We know now that no atrocity convinces our republican colleagues to reject the nra funding and do what is right. Not sandy hook, not parkland, not las vegas, not tree of life, and not el paso and dayton and i could go on and on. One party has made it a priority and it is us. It should not be us alone. It is a question of our common humanity. Im a mother and grandmother, so i will ask a couple of quick questions if i may. I would like to start with mr. Chipman. How does a pistol grip and barrel shroud make it that a mass shooting is able to kill many people . Well, as senator cruz has demonstrated, the barrel of the ar15 can get hot if you try to cook bacon on it. So imagine if you are a determined killer and firing hundreds of rounds. This would allow you to grip the firearm in a way to increase your ability to spray fire and kill more people. To hold on to the hot weapon and maximize the lethality. Mr. Chipman, can you provide our thoughts on the threat to Law Enforcement since you have been on both sides . Chipman the single biggest threat is how common now rifle rounds are, have been instituted and now handguns. Traditionally, Law Enforcement were wearing vests to protect themselves from handguns that fired handgun ammunition, but it is not enough. The industry has purposely now created the weaponry to defeat bulletproof vests, and this is the biggest threat. There is a bill that actually ms. Demings has presented that is trying to address this, and we saw it already this year in milwaukee where an officer executing a warrant has the vest on, but the shooter has an ak pistol and it defeats it. Rep. Dean thank you. I will end with this thought. I am a mother. Im a grandmother to a second grader, and two grandchildren coming this year. It is through that lenses they lens that i take a look. Please roll the tape. This is a question of the common humanity and we have crossed a threshold that no country should have crossed. Roll the tape. This year, my mom got me the perfect backpack for back to school. These binders help me stay organized. These headphones are just what i need for studying. These new sneakers are just what i need for the new year. This jacket is a real musthave. My parents got me the skateboard i wanted. It is pretty cool. These scissors come in handy in our class. These colored pencils, too. These new socks can be a real lifesaver. I finally got my own phone to stay in touch with my mom. Rep. Dean mr. Chairman, i yield back. But we will not yield. The gentle lady yields back and the gentle lady from new york is recognized. I apologize. Thank you, mr. Nadler, chairman. That video is very difficult to watch, because i am also a mother and i lost my father to gun violence, and today, this morning, i answered the phone right when the hearing started and the school was conducting an active shooter drill. And my daughter, who just turned 11 years old, tells me if she is locked out of the classroom if she is going to if she cant get into the classroom, she would try to talk to the shooter and tell him or her to remember his little brother or sister and to not shoot. This is what our children now have to live with. I wasnt planning on starting my testimony with that story, but i want to share a quote that i received from one of my constituents, he is an e. R. Doctor. He works in the Homestead Baptist Health system, dr. Rotonski. He told me that, assault weapons do a tremendous amount of damage to the human body. The tissue damage and destruction is exponentially worse than a conventional handgun. From the carnage that he has personally witnessed, he says that assault weapons are not defensive weapons, but offensive weapons designed to inflict death, tissue damage, and devastation on the human body, and that is what they do very effectively. That is clearly what militarystyle weapons are designed for. We have seen these weapons of war being used in places like iraq and afghanistan and they are now being used in our very own communities, taking the lives of our children, our parents, and our sisters and brothers. It has to stop. There is something that we can do here in congress today. And ms. Mueller, you said earlier which really struck me, you said, you know, i just, and you were describing a gun, and you said, i love this little gun. It is time to love our children more action. To take that is why we are having this hearing today, because there is a way to protect the children and our communities and it is by passing stricter gun laws. Im not done here. With me . Rep. Mucarselpowell no, please. In florida, the pain of the loved ones strikes close to home and close to my district, and we have had two recent Mass Shootings that have caused 65 deaths. In parkland, last valentines ar15 shooter using an style rifle opened fire on icicle students and, in six minutes, the shooter, with his assault weapon, killed 17 people, 17 kids including a coach, injured 17 others. 2016, at the pulse nightclub in orlando, a shooter fired into a crowd, killing 29 people and injuring 53 others. At the pulse nightclub was jerry wright, the son of my very good friends. He was a wonderful, loving, caring son. He was there to have a good time, to enjoy latin music that night, and his life was cruelly taken. He was only 31 years old. Livew that mj and fred with that pain every day. Jerry didnt deserve this, his parents didnt deserve this but because that killer was able to obtain that military style rifle, he delivered pain to that family that day. These are weapons of war. Period. Full stop. They do not belong in our communities. Tovar, can you just elaborate what a gunshot wound from an Assault Rifle looks like compared to that of a handgun . Dr. Rios tovar like i said earlier, these types of injuries, you cant necessarily see on the outside. That one victim that perished had a single gunshot to back and out of the clavicle area. It looked like a simple through and through, not so much going on, but once that autopsy was done, we saw that a hole the size of my fist was through her lung, the apex of the lung. There is nothing that i could do from that point. From that point. As as i think the witnesses can see, the deepness of the passion permeates so many of us. I have been in the United States congress for 24 years, and that means that i have a lot of personal wounds that do not in any way reflect the victims of gun violence who lost their lives. I was here for columbine, when so many said that we were going to do something. And let me read this into the record. Between september 25 and october 1, the day of the shooting, he stockpiled an arsenal of weapons associated equipment and ammunition that included 14 ar15 rifles, all of which were equipped with the bump stocks and 12 had magazines and eight had ar rifles and a bolt action revival and a rifle, and a bump stock modifies a semi automatic weapon to shoot in rapid succession to mitigating automated fire. Mayor, you are on the ground. Tell us what might have happened if your officers had not ran into face of danger . I have a lot of questions, and so i welcome you going right to it, because we know it. I want the record to have it. To know how they saved lives, but how they had to run directly in danger. Thank you, representative. The seven officers that ran to stop the shooter in 32 seconds saved countless lives, because where they stopped the shooter was right outside of an entry way to the bar that hundreds had already shoved in and had no way of getting out. And if we did not have, as i like to say, six good guys with guns, the amount of damage and death that would have happened could have been in the hundreds. Rep. Jackson lee but you had a bad guy armed with an automatic weapon. Exactly. He still, in 32 seconds, and even with those officers there, killed nine and injured dozens more. Rep. Jackson lee thank you. You are here to supporting a ban on assault weapons . Yes, maam. Rep. Jackson lee chief, you heard me describe what the shooter in las vegas had mounted on a post, almost like he was in war, on a mountain, hiding, so that those who were making their way up would be in the range of danger. Tell me what in gods name one could imagine that any civilian needed those weapons which resulted in 58 dead and the danger and loss of life even of Law Enforcement who had to run toward that danger . Absolutely. Ability to was the literally inflict the most amount of damage and be stable doing it. It is kind of hard to hold a weapon indefinitely, the weight gets to you. But when you have a stabilizer, you can do that for a long time. Officers were shot as they ran into the tree of life, attempting to disarm and neutralize the individual who then had killed 11 people at that point in time. Rep. Jackson lee he had in a automatic weapon . He had one of those as part of it. He used predominantly the handgun there. Rep. Jackson lee but he was armed such that he could continue . Yes, that he had done the type of damage that he had done. Rep. Jackson lee you are an md as well . Oh, no, no, that is the distinguished one. Phd. Rep. Jackson lee okay, a ph. D. And we are grateful for your service with that knowledge as chief. Let me go to the doctor rios, myar, and let me offer you sympathy. I am a texan and i came to el paso and i saw the mastery of those alive and i visited the victims in both of the hospitals and i saw those with personal wounds and physical wounds, and so, let me pose this, for my good friends, i welcome the opposition testimony, i respect them because they are americans. I am adamantly opposed to assault weapons and i believe in a buyback and i have no shame in that. I believe we can do this as americans. I ask the National Rifle association to stand with americans. Let me give you this picture. Sandy hook and the babies from 6 and 7 years old were shot with an automatic weapon. Babies. First graders. I am sorry to ask you this. What kind of wound would a childs body receive from an ar 15 or automatic weapon . You saw adults, and im not sure if you saw a child. I know someone was wounded. But tell me about the size of the body, the mass of the body and that bullet going into a child. Tovar it is not something that i would even want to think about imagining. But it would be devastating. It is just something that i cannot answer. I am sorry. Rep. Jackson lee it would be worse than you can imagine . And what it would be would be an adult having a cavity you were trying to explain, big holes in the body, is that not right . The mass of an adult is one or two or three times that of a child. I am not a physician. So in the essence of a child, maybe the child physically would not be able to be contained. Trying to put it in as tover it would be to horrific to describe. Rep. Jackson lee these are the assault weapons that we are here today trying to ban. To the witnesses, and to mr. Chipman, i would like to thank you and did not ask you but i am familiar with the National Firearm act and it can be a source of amendment for many of the legislative initiatives and i do believe in the enforcing of the legislation in terms of the gun trafficking which makes some of our cities like chicago and l. A. And others victims because the guns are trafficked. I wanted to read this into the record as i thank the witnesses. Assault weapons account for 430 or 85 of the total 501 mass shooting fatalities, and this is done by a group of doctors, this is researched in a linear regression model controlling for yearly trend, the federal ban period was associated with a statistically significant nine fewer Mass Shootings related per 10,000. Mass shooting fatalities were 70 less likely to occur during the federal ban on assault weapons. The science is clear, the evidence is clear. The murder of our fellow americans, the loss of life, and the victims that are in this audience that have to listen over and over again about why we are not acting, we owe them something. This committee is willing to pay the debt. I thank each and everyone of you for staying this long and helping us to provide the testimony that will have us right as we have already done, and pass an assault weapons ban. This concludes todays hearing. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for the record. With all of our thanks and without objection, this hearing is now adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] live thursday on the cspan network, the house returns for general speeches, followed by general speeches at noon. They will terminate they will vote to terminate the president s Emergency Declaration for border wall funding. Two, the Senate Returns to debate a temporary spending bill. On john will also speak heighten, and Eugene Scalia to be labor secretary. A. M. , the acting director of National IntelligenceJoseph Maguire testifies before the House Intelligence Committee about the whistleblower complaint over call withtrumps ukraine. Cspans washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Our 2020tinue battleground states tour around the country, reporter richard burr will join us on board the bus to talk about michigans and how thecampaign campaigns are playing out in the state so far. Join the discussion. Is president hani at the generale assembly in new york city. This is about 20 minutes