Institute of peace, i am excited to welcome everybody here for a very timely conversation with senator mark warner from virginia of the u. S. China relationship, an issue that is getting a lot of attention these days. Senator warner has been at the forefront of china and has been a leader on the conversation related to Foreign Policy and National Security issues both on china and his years of service in the senate. For those of you joining us for wasvery first time, usip founded by congress as a nonpartisan National Institute dedicated to working with partners around the world to prevent and resolve violent conflict. Here inhe things we do our headquarters in washington is to provide a space for conversation about the most critical Foreign Policy issues of the day, and i think the u. S. China relationship certainly qualifies. That is exactly what brings us together. We have seen over the past decade, how china has shifted many of its policies, and become far more active in the international stage, particularly, it has invested heavily in countries and laid a much more active role regionally. We have seen this from north africa. St burma, here, we have a program that has really looked at what is the role of china in conflictaffected countries. As part of that, the u. S. I. Groups, the first of which have looked at north korea, north korean peace regulations, and chinas role in burmas internal conflict. I would like to invite you to check those out on the web where you can find them. It is my pleasure to introduce senator warner. He brings a very rich background, is very useful background that combines a business and Technology Career with Public Service. Sweaterion to the the from the great state of virginia, he has also served as virginias governor. He has a proven record of bipartisanship, working to advance u. S. Interests and security abroad, and most importantly, he is the chair of the Senate Intelligence committee, where he has worked with senator richard burr and other senators on the other side of the aisle. This combination of the private Sector Technology world and Public Service world, i think gives him particularly keen insight into the topic we are discussing today, and he has really been in the forefront of leading conversations about technology, economic, and trade issues, all of which are at the core of the u. S. China relationship. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. Thank you for those who are joining us online. If you are using social media, hashtag ande join us for the conversation at rusip. Rne with that, please join me in welcoming senator warner. [applause] thank you, nancy. Thank you for the introduction, and thank you for the great work u. S. I. P. Does on so many subjects. Dust a number of terribly it number of terribly Critical Metrics around the region. I want to commend the institute on the good of the work you do on Foreign Policy challenges. I want to make sure we have plenty of time for discussion afterwards. Aday, i think there is widespread understanding that confronting a rising china is the Foreign Policy challenge of our time. China is a global competitor of 1. 4 billion People Living under an authoritarian system of government that is vying for economic, political, and globally. Nfluence it is governed by a Chinese Communist partys view of individual liberty, rule of law, and Democratic Values is starkly different from those of our own. On all these points, there is broad bipartisan agreement. However, there is far less agreement on what our response is to these realities what our responses to these realities should look like. How do we respond well staying true to our values . Can maintain our leadership and Global Competitive advantage by embracing these defining characteristics that have made america the leader of the free world. Those characteristics are our belief in the rule of law, our checks and balances against government overreach, and our respect for the rights of an individual, especially when those rights come into conflict with the government or a majority faction. These values are the foundation of our International Successes and of our strongest alliances. Today, china is offering a very different model to the world. It has achieved a meteoric rise while objecting to some of these valleys rejecting some of these values. My belief is that the policies of president xi jinping and the , notse communist party with the Chinese People my beef and especially not with americans of chinese descent. But the truth is, the Chinese Communist party today is intent on fundamentally reshaping the norms and values that have underwritten decades of global stability, security, and prosperity. Let question is, how do we respond . To engage china in a headtohead cold war on multiple fronts, or do we embrace what i would argue is our most traditional leadership role, and strengthen the International Order that beijing is attempting to upend . I would argue that the second approach of offering a better model to the world, one rooted in freedom and opportunity, is both consistent with our values and the approach most likely to succeed. First, i want to talk briefly about how we got here. In many ways, we are having a conversation like this because the conventional wisdom has changed rapidly over the past few years. Until recently, conventional wisdom thought the u. S. And china would rise together, to nations intertwined with the partnership in trade, business and education. Like many, i hoped that the prcs greater global integration would lead to a more open, prosperous and potentially more democratic china, and a rising china would be good for the world. Today, it is clear that the aims and as. Xi communist party do not align with that vision. Instead, the Chinese Government has worked to challenge the rulesbased International System and expand its brand of global influence, military presence, and economic power. It is time to wake up to the fact that beijing is pursuing a strategy not only to strengthen china, but to explicitly diminish u. S. Power and influence. To do this, the communist party elementsting all the of state power to strengthen chinas position in the world. And they are doing this at the expense of human rights and human dignity. They way i see it, these efforts bucket military economicfluence, expansion, and science and technology. Front, thee military Peoples Liberation army is expanding both its own domestic bases and starting to establish overseas. Chinas naval forces are now able to conduct operations farther from home. In the indian ocean. , waters around europe, and the western pacific. Under the doctrine of militarycivilian fusion, beijing has pursued a Cutting Edge Technology is that of cutting Edge Technologies such as a. I. , Unmanned Systems and hypersonics, which will be essential to 21st century were fighting, and the pla is modernizing its military at a fraction of the cost of those in the west are. They are effectively skipping a byeration of expensive r d adopting platforms from foreign or sometimes stealing the intellectual property to do so. Contrast that with the United States, where we continue to defense,0 billion on including expensive update to legacy military systems and platforms. To compound this, china is focusing its efforts on tools of asymmetric warfare like cyber, space, and misinformation and disinformation. U. S. Defense and intelligence officials are increasingly concerned that the pla now threatens the United States in specific domains such as cyber and space, and the china even leads in specific military technologies, again, such as hypersonic weaponry. Former dni coates and others have one of chinas ability to target Critical Infrastructure right here at home like our grid,d grade electric using cyberattacks. sworry as well about the pla willingness to use cyber theft for economic espionage. The truth is china is withstrating that wars near peer competitors may no longer be the traditional thelict but instead, for u. S. And our allies, increasingly clear that cyber, and again, misinformationthis information, will be just as critical as military might Going Forward in the 21st century. The second aspect of chinas strategic strategy deals with efforts to wage influence campaigns beyond its borders. Has tried to dictate how foreign entities characterize sensitive topics like the dalai tiananmenmi square. Beijing has forced global businesses to conform to its worldview in order to maintain access to the chinese market. For instance, dictating how u. S. Airlines put taiwan on their global maps. On college campuses, we have seen china use student groups like the confucius institutes to shape and stifle debate. More broadly, the Chinese Communist party relies on the network of think tanks, and i landed businesses and political leaders to shape perceptions of china and the party. They have also used their Economic Investments abroad to leverage pressure, to pressure other nations to support their diplomatic agenda. , it recently, this was think, particularly noteworthy, just recently, a number of countries, including majoritymuslim countries, signed a letter expressing support for chinas tactics with the uyghur population. The Chinese Government has pursued an extensive social media misinformation campaign, exploiting the continued vulnerabilities of facebook, youtube and twitter, all sites banned in mainland china, to spread propaganda abroad. The party also dominates chinese t,nguage Services Like wecha exploding the flow of information not only within its borders but within its Expat Community as well. These tactics are an extension of chinas doctrine of cyber sovereignty. The idea that the state has the absolute right to control information within its border. China has already brought this notion to bear on its people in the form of censorship, domestic disinformation, and the social credit system. But increasingly, we are seeing it exported on the global scale. Third, on the economic front, resident xi jinping has pursued two Economic Strategies aimed at displacing the United Statesposition of economic leadership. The china 2025 plan through the plan, he is focused on developing domestic chinese capabilities in a Strategic Industries of the future at the same time the prc is working to expand chinese exports globally to existing customers as well as the developing world. President xi is making a play for dominance in areas like 5g, a. I. , quantum computing, robotics, and increasingly, even biotech. In addition, china is employing the full power of the state to build infrastructure and here is what they are doing Something Different and actually set the standards for new technologies by 5g wireless. Actually adopting tactics that the United States used for much of the 20th century. But unlike the u. S. , china is trying to set standards to promote its own interests rather than the notions of any sort of fair competition. At the same time, china exploits the openness of the International Trading system to gain access for Chinese Companies. In beijing beijing has maintained or even increased barriers to foreign competition. Roadlly, the belt and initiative to build infrastructure and trade relationships heavily weighed in chinas interest. Accompanying this has been a digital initiative. The goal is not simply to promote chinese vendors, but to seed the Global Telecom market with equipment and services can ultimately be exploited by Chinese Security services. The truth is. , the Chinese Communist party is attempting to harness Chinese Companies, civil society, and even overseas diasporas as an extension of the state. These efforts are frankly neither hidden or frankly, very subtle. Over the past two years, china enacted laws requiring all citizens and companies to act in support of National Security as defined by the Chinese Government. Despite protests to the contrary, no Chinese Company, however global, is actually private. These companies dont make decisions entirely for economic or commercial reasons because to acte legally required as an extension of the Chinese Communist party when called upon. This leads to the fourth aspect of chinas efforts to reshape the International Order, the science and technology policy. Have seenagain, we u. S. Companies forced into joint ventures with Chinese Companies or required to share specific code and other ip in order just to get access to the chinese market. We have heard from American Companies who have been put out of business after chinese competitors stole their technology and produced their own lowercost version of the american product with state subsidies. Chinas blatant effort to steal western technology do not stop at its border. The Justice Department revealed last year that more than 90 of d. O. J. s economic espionage thirdsand more than two of its currently open trade secrets cases all involve china. In particular, the Chinese Community government views western universities and government labs as fertile grounds for transfer of Sensitive Research back to china. What is particularly alarming is expats,ees chinese especially students and academics, as essential assets in these efforts. The fact is, chinese nationals now make up roughly one third of all foreign students studying in the u. S. Out of the 363,000 chinese nationals studying in the u. S. Lastear, nearly half of them were majoring in s. T. E. M. Fields. And many of them are returning home to take advantage of the opportunities in chinas burdock a. My concern isnt necessarily with people who want to come here and learn and then go home, but i do have a concern that the communist party is attempting to coerce some of these individuals for Technology Information and intelligence collection purposes. Let me be clear, the majority of these students are blameless and make significant contributions to the Research Environment and to the u. S. Economy. But we have to acknowledge that what has changed is that within the last few years, more and more Chinese Intelligence Services often preys upon this population, literally threatening the students family back at home saying, your son or daughter not only these to come home, but bring a thumb drive back. The truth is with president xi , china is drifting from International Cooperation and shifting to a more nationalistic and confrontational path of scientific development. And while we must not lose right about own founding principles, we also cannot ignore the fact that china is now playing by a different set of rules. Where does that leave us . Left unopposed, this threat to global norms and values jeopardizes not just americas position in the world, it risks undermining the whole notion of free inquiry free travel, free enterprise, and other values that have animated decades of global stability and prosperity. That is why i am so deeply concerned by the Trump Administrations erratic and incoherent approach. While the administration has rightly raised concerns about china, something frankly that previous president s should have done earlier the administrations, unilateral approach to this challenge is not leading us toward success. After all these difficulties i have outlined let me make sure, they pose a challenge not only to the United States, not just to the west, but to all nations committed to democracy, individual liberty, and independent judiciary, and the rule of law. Countries like japan, australia, india, and others, may all face traditional challenges that the to set of yet i building a quotient to confront these issues, President Trump allies. Nated our instead of building a valuesbased International Coalition to stand up to china, the president has minimized the importance of human rights representative government, even when we see the protesters in hong kong standing up and singing the starspangled banner. The president s insistence on friendliness is a conflict between our two countries has resulted in little tangible gain. We cannot afford to frame this strategic challenge in simplistic cold war terms, dividing the world into two and weigh out then wa best. Not realistic, given chinas economic integration in the world. The prc is our top desk is a top trading partner for more than world. Rds of the and like many of our allies, the u. S. Economy is deeply intertwined with china. Meanwhile, while china and the u. S. Are competitors in many areas, as nancy said, we also confront many challenges. The stakes are too high for both to drift into a permanent confrontational basis. Instead, i think we need a comprehensive strategy to defend against chinas bad behavior, to compete with china in the 21st century, and to strengthen the International Order it seats upend. E first, let us talk about defensive measures. This cant be left up to the federal government, that needs to be a partnership between the government and the private sector. That is why over the past year, i have been convening a series of briefings business and academia, always partnering with a republican member of the Senate Intelligence committee, and leaders from the Intelligence Committee to give those outside the government and inside view of what we have seen. I have introduced legislation with marco rubio that would impart help formalize in a this effort. Our bill and an office of Critical Technologies at the white house, which would be responsible for developing a governmentwide strategy to protect and state responsive threats to critical challenges. However, i believe the government can and however, i believe the should do can and more. In october 2018 found j and october 2018 cybersecuritynd risks in all u. S. Weapon systems. We can start by securing the internet of things device before they are exploited. I have bipartisan, bicameral that would require all weapon systems meet minimum security standards. I was proud to support language into the annual defense bill of huawei ban the use amponents and i think we need National Strategy to deal with supply chain. Thats why i along with senator mike raburn introduced a bill to establish a National SupplyChain Security center within the odeon i. Companies also need to fortify their own systems against cyber attacks. Second, weve got to get a lot our serious about securing telecommunications systems, especially when it comes to 5g. Means relying on trusted companies to build our telecommunications infrastructure, and it means setting standards that adhere to our Democratic Values. Supported the administrations initial steps to limit the use of wild way and other Telecom Equipment from china. I just hope the president sticks with these efforts but more still needs to be done. I also believe we need a serious conversation about how to replace current equipment across the country. Many of our smaller carriers have bought while way equipment because it has been cheaper. Third, decent oversight and controls to stop chinese investments in critical dual use technologies. By law, all chinese citizens and companies are ultimately beholden to the communist party, not their board of shareholders, and our corporate ownership rules need to acknowledge that. I have supported reforms to expand oversight over these transactions, but we need to ensure the implementation meets congressional intent and companies cannot skirt oversight. Isther area im working on muchneeded Beneficial Ownership legislation so the Chinese Government and other bad actors cannot hide their investments inside anonymous shell companies. Ourth, we need to continue progress on enhancing export controls, which prevent sensitive technologies from being exported to china. Congress made some progress. The department of commerce is currently working on language to strengthen the u. S. Export control system, but given how much Cutting Edge Technology and Research Development is happening within the commercial sector, we need to establish these controls quickly and coordinate with our allies. 42currently partner with other nations. These are exactly the kind of International Organizations we have got to strengthen. Fifth, there must be clear consequences for American Companies and citizens that chinas bad behavior. I have become increasingly disturbed that u. S. Citizens and the Academic Community has deepened partnerships with china to gain shortterm market thertunity while ignoring larger geopolitical impact. Equally troubling, weve seen american investors pour money into Chinese Companies that advance the drcs military capabilities. We have also seen American Companies develop technologies that directly enable censorship, surveillance, and social control opportunities of china and other authoritarian regimes. These efforts may be good for business, but they directly support chinas efforts to rewrite global norms and rules. At the very least, we should make clear both companies and academic institutions that complicity in chinas repression efforts will jeopardize their receive grants from the federal government. Six, we need to do a better job of protecting our research and development, especially the critical work that goes on in u. S. Universities and research labs. Universities should double down on security and compliance requirements. Things like disclosing additional sources of income or affiliations with Foreign Military and intelligence organizations. That said, these security measures must be enforced in a transparent and fair way. The goal is to protect our ip, but it is also to help students and researchers being preyed upon by the communist party, not to discriminate against them. This will require creative thinking to flip the script on the ccps efforts to coerce Chinese Students and researchers to bring home Early Stage Research in key technologies. Leverage,lies on its including families back home, to force individuals with access to federally funded Research Since this research to return to china for the transfer of such technologies. Consideredactually expanding asylum access to include Chinese Students and their families if they were threatened . It would not be a guaranteed deterrent, but it might create in the minds of the communist party that they would have to rethink the current tactics. But we need to do more than just play defense against chinas tactics. This should serve as a wakeup in support ofze maintaining our Competitive Edge. The 20ic moment for first century. In 1957, a successful launch of sputnik actually shocked the American People and our making morento investments in science education, stem research, and a host of other technologies. Autnik demanded, required quick response, and it led to American Leadership for the next 70 years. We not only generally invented or not invented here, we oftentimes set the standards. Over the last 60 years, we have seen the integrated circuit Wireless Communications and the internet, to name a few, where we actually set the standards, and that helped move the rest of the world. That was an enormous strategic and Economic Investment for us, and we need to match that effort again today. Following world war ii, the United States funded literally of annual global r d. Today, that number is down to in nondefense areas like wireless technology. Even if we are successful in convincing our allies that equipment present serious security risks, we have to have an alternative to point them to. Our we need to step up commit Defunding Scientific Research if we hope to compete in the decades ahead. It likely will mean a different kind of defense investment strategy. I worried for some time that we are investing in the best 20thcentury military that money can buy. With much of the conflict, unfortunately, in the 21st century i believe will happen in cyberspace and misinformation and disinformation. In many of these areas, china is becoming competitive. China is investing in all of these cuttingEdge Technologies. The United States needs to longerthat we are no over investing in legacy systems and platforms. Our Defense Budgets need to better align with the fac that the bat the fact that the battlefield might not be the south china sea. It could be the networks. But ensuring our Competitive Edge also means mobilizing outside the defense industry. It means promoting Stem Education and making sure our children get an affordable, highquality education so they can compete. It Means Investment in u. S. Railways,ture such as roads, and bridges, but it also means highspeed internet and other conductivity. And if we are going to train and attract a workforce of the future, it has to be up to the task. Some of ourupon nations greatest strengths inclusion, diversity, entrepreneurial spirit. One reason we are the land of opportunity is that you can come to this country as an immigrant and in the first generation become an american. China with its suppression and persecution of minority populations cannot say the same. Sadly, this is, again, one area where the Trump Administrations policies have been remarkably shortsighted. The truth is we cannot effectively advance our National Security interests alone. If its standing up to china on trade issues, advancing a free and open in the pacific region, or developing a secure telecom infrastructure, it cannot happen without our allies and partners. Acting in isolation only enables china to play countries and companies off one another, undermining our leverage and impact, especially when so Many Companies countries actually do share our commitment to democracy, global security, and a rulesbased trading system. This is where the Trump Administration again has gotten it all wrong. Underestimated the importance of partners in advancing our most fundamental interests. For example, our efforts to convince allies to adopt alternatives to huawei have been constantly undermined, particularly when the president keeps hinting that the restrictions could be used as a bargaining chip in the context of a trade deal. We should instead be working closely with our allies and partners to create market competitors to huawei that actually abide by our rules. This includes setting fair and open secure standards for 5g based upon technological rigor, not chinas geopolitical interests. On the trade front, we should be making common cause trading partners and allies who face the same economic consequences of chinas behavior. We should be coordinating with andallies on extra controls screening of foreign investments. Lets also recognize that our ahead of the United States on certain key technologies. We should be coordinating with them on Research Development. In order to pursue a free and open in a pacific based on our values, we must deepen our cooperation with our allies and partners such as south korea, japan, australia, and india, while expanding our network. As cochair of the indian caucus, i see real opportunities to increase our engagement with india on a set of shared Strategic Interests such as Cyber Security and counter piracy. The United States also has a number of existing security arrangements with key allies that can be bolstered. We should continue to enhance defense capabilities of our regional partners, increase interoperability, and support Democratic Institutions in developing countries. Such as theols recently established u. S. International Development Finance corporation, the United States should work with partners to bring private capital to developing worlds in a way that is again consistent with our values. Across the board, the u. S. Should be rallying countries with similar concerns about multilateral mechanisms to challenge chinas behavior. Believe and our allies in the idea that fairplay benefits everyone. Collective action on behalf of freedom and fairness can push back on president xis dangerous ideas and move china into a more responsible path. This will require a significant strategic shift from business, academia, and the federal government. It will also require us to focus our own approach. Effortsto step up our to counter chinas economic ambitions and strengthen our partnerships abroad. We face great challenges when it comes to china, but this is not the time to be fearful. We would make the strongest country in the world, and our values are still the envy of the world. We know sometimes we look at our current politics. Things seem a little bit of a very but its never been a good idea to bet against the United States of america. I still believe that is true today even with the challenges we confront. Thank you all very much. [applause] senator warner, thank you for a very comprehensive overview senator warner yeah, that was the longest talk i think i have ever given. [laughter] you laid out in a copperheads of way the comp locations and nuances of a relationship that as we were talking about earlier has shifted tremendously over the last decade. Can i ask you to say a few more words about this remarkable shift that has occurred that has changed how we think about this critical relationship. Say this in my i speech but i want to reiterate china is a great country. China has a history that rivals any nation in the world. I remember when i was governor, leading a state trip to china in 2005. Just incredibly impressed with the energy and untruth nourish it, the activity, and i was absolutely part of the group that embraced this notion that the rise of china and the rise of the United States, there would be points of conflict, but that we would generally end up with greater collaboration. View, though, has fundamentally changed over the last three to five years. Part of that has come from increasing words from businesses that have invested in china that have seen their intellectual property stolen, that have seen chinese competition with state enterprises, but most of it has come from the absolutely unanimous sense of everyone across the whole that asence Community President xi further consolidated power and reestablished the primacy of the communist party in ways that change the legal structure and Business Outlook of enterprises in china, that their goal no longer for china was a collaborative effort, but it was and notoal to dominate just dominate within the region, but in a host of areas across the whole world. Athink that has caused reassessment. I, frankly, think and while im critical of some of the things President Trump has done, i give him credit for elevating this issue. I actually believe president obama should have in the later stages of his term, and i think it is the Foreign Policy threat, challenge of our time. The challenge we face is we should not default to u. S. China as a competition. This is a competition between the communist party of china versus any economy that is marketbased that has the rule of law and independent judiciary, and that is why i try to make the point that we need to rely upon these alliances. He also said we need to not retreat back into a cold war frame, but yet, we need to be able to go head2head on some of the Technology Challenges within our own values and our own systems, so that presents a particular challenge if you think about the spread of huawei and 5g and technologies that have the full weight of the Chinese Government behind them, so have you given thought to what does that look like . How do we tackle that kind of challenge . Senator warner first of all, i think we were all caught offguard, the government and private industry. A telecom guy. I was in the Wireless Industry for years. We, at least america, had kind of gotten a little lazy, everying that technological innovation if not invented in america, we would. Nd up setting the standards by virtue of being the Worlds Largest economy. If it was not invented here, we were close in terms of the collaboration. We never really processed that into policymaking because we always assumed we would bend the rules, number one, and number two, we almost kind of had a handsoff approach that said we did not really mind who ended up being the Technology Leader on the private sector because if we set the rules and we were the largest market, we would figure out a way and nine times out of 10, the Market Leader was always an american company. On 5g, we should have been thinking about this not just recently, but years ago. What has happened is china has gone out. They have their enterprise, so they can offer decent ,quipment with huge subsidies 140 financing, in many ways taking exactly the playbook that Companies Like motorola and at t used back in the 1980s and 1990s as American Companies dominated the earlier stages of wireless development. And we are left, one, without a national champion, so when we first went out and said let me make two points here. Out and ii, we went think inappropriately tried to explain why this was a problem. This is not a problem currently because there is a backdoor in the equipment, but when you move to a 5g network, it means it is much more software driven. There is not a single switch. It means when huawei sells its equipment in a sense in what is called a full stack so you have to buy all huawei equipment, and you think about your apple phone, how many updates you get on a regular basis. On a 5g phone, the number of updates will be exponentially higher, and if you have a company that at the end of the day, this is why the australians prohibited huawei, is ultimately not responsive to independent judiciary and rule of law but responsible to the government, at any moment in time in the future, the government can say the next update you sent, put malware in, and i dont think we made that clear. It is the ongoing threat and the fact that we do not have recourse because huawei at the end of the day is responsible to the communist party, not to the rule of law or independent judiciary. We did not ask lane the well enough. Most of the intelligence communities around the world have acknowledged this problem, but we have the challenge then of saying if this equipment is a youcheaper, and what are saying, america, we should buy it . You have competitors from ericsson, nokia, samsung all great companies, but none of them have the wherewithal of their countries they are located in to match the financing power that China Incorporated can bring. We may need and we can bring this is a pretty dramatic consequence. Alwayshis country have avoided notions of industrial policy where the government. Ries to pick winners or losers i think some of that when we are competing against a nation the size and scope of china may need more thought. E are having conversations think about how we can combine and have a does not necessarily have to be american, but western i say western in geographic as the countries that were first brought to our attention were japan, korea, and australia, open and were democracytype equivalent that will have more capability to compete. That is a dramatically different approach than anything we have thought about in recent times, but it is driven by the fact that when we are competing its size,ina with scope, economic cap, and intellectual capabilities, we are going to have to think differently. I want to ask one other question, and then we will open it to the audience, so we thinking. We will have microphones coming through. You made, i think, a big point of differentiating the government from the people of china. I think everyone appreciated your call to not demonize chineseamericans or the chinese nationals who are studying among thebut you also noted importance of both the business sector and the University Academic sector participating in a partnership to address the shift that you so articulately outlined. How do you risk how do you assess the risk benefits of the engagement, the kind of very fruitful, rich engagement with academia, with business, with people to people with the need to think differently. How do we move on that . Senator warner let me try to take that a couple of different ways. This, ive been making point visavis particularly, my beef is not with the Chinese People. The best indication, i think, of is the people of hong kong. The people of hong kong are requiring in ways remarkable courage that the last thing they want is this communist party system inflicted upon them, so i think that strengthens the case. I think many Chinese Students who are studying here who first get exposed to what happened at tiananmen square, who first get exposed to different democracies, we need to be more nourishing of that. Constant a being careful in language and framing that this is not antichinese. It is particularly a concern for chineseamericans who are rightfully, horribly afraid that there was an incident back in the 1980s i forget the gentlemans name who was killed, chinese ancestry, during the 1980s because people thought he was japanese. During the kind of antijapanese phobia of that period. You can clearly see the kind of bias that took place against Muslim Americans after 9 11. Dont thinkial i our government has done nearly are good enough job engaging with the chineseamerican community on an ongoing basis. There is amuch lot of this going on particularly in australia, so put that on one side. On academia, its a challenge. 63,000 students many of these universities have become addicted to that tuition flow. Students, andt this is an area that we need to be very thoughtful about, but we manye to acknowledge off,rsities are kicking but the number of our universities that had intellectual property theft in the last few years has skyrocketed. Let me just get to the last point, which is with business, and this is the part where we have had some pushback, when i see some of our friends in ofvate equity who much our Business Community has acknowledge this, but private equity folks may be making huge amounts of money by investing in some of these Chinese Tech Companies who are helping build and somehowce state say they bear no moral responsibility. I think we really need to expose this. Do we do, given this complicated agenda with the terrible human rights abuses happening right now against the uighurs . You mention hong kong protesters. What are we able to do about that . That is again where when our doesnt make its priority freedom of expression, we lose our moral force. Many in the country signed that letter supporting chinese policy against the uighurs is economic dissemination and it is extraordinarily support disappointing that this administration has not spoken up. On the other hand, i think about senator rubio, i think a part of my republican colleagues. They have remained stalwart in speaking up about american values. 98 of what i went through today maybe not the trump part, but the other 95 i think most of my republican colleagues will wholeheartedly agree on. We are going to take three questions from the audience. We will start with this gentleman, and then we will come down here to the front row. Go ahead. Thank you very much, senator warner. You talked about the importance of working with our allies. Please identify yourself. Thank you. My name is patrick. Im within Telecommunications Industry association. Aile way huawei is not member. You talk about the importance of working with our allies, but i think it is challenging because not a lot of our allies or not areot all allies necessarily on the same page and would be willing to limit their own commercial interest in some of these issues. How do we convince them . How do we work with them to push this agenda . Down here in front lets actually go here with this gentleman and pass it over there. Thank you very much, senator warner. Uacu ine director of kiev, ukraine. I would like if you could expand on your thinking with regard to u. S. Higher education institutions and what could the u. S. Government on a larger scale do to support u. S. Higher education institutions so they are not so backed into a corner, as you pointed out, with foreign students and with 1 3 of them coming from china, so much is ofed on survival in the case rapid rising Higher Education costs in the United States, of those institutions needing to bank on those students because without it, our students cannot move forward. Thank you. Great, thanks. Then we will let you take a batch. Senator, i am proud to be one of your constituents in virginia. Malloy. I was on the China Commission as a commissioner. Twoyear terms. What i saw was the change in our corporations from stakeholder to shareholder value to her corporations thought their only response ability was to enrich their shareholders im going to ask you to get to a crisp question. Ok. I saw Chinese Companies being able to play on that. I was delighted with the Business Roundtable statement recently that they are moving away from that emphasis solely on shareholder value back to a more stakeholder value system. Im wondering if that is part of the issue that we should be addressing and in taking on the china challenge . Warner let me go ahead and take a shot. And federalate support for Higher Education. The decline and support in terms of public dollars and we simply increase the debt limits of our students. My 22 friends who are running for president who have all got a variety of ideas. We have to make Higher Education both more affordable and more accessible, but at the same time one of the greatest assets of our country has been foreign students who side to stay and build their businesses in america. In northern virginia, its 40 of our Tech Companies started by first generation americans. That. Ot to walk away from policy an immigration that allows students to stay here. We have incredibly bright people coming, studying. Many of them wanting to stay, but we are not very immigrantfriendly right now. , but therd for china other students can simply if they are not welcome here, they are welcome in canada, australia, and the u. K. In terms of the question about shake holder versus shareholder primacy, i absolutely support what they have done, but we got to make sure those are more than words. Pat has heard my spiel on this. I think it goes to investment in Human Capital because the Chinese Company with their state support have a much longer time horizon and do not have that make threeessure to cents next quarter. In terms of the telecom, telecom most nationsthink are starting to understand at least at the intelligence level, ismunity level, that huawei a longterm security threat, and its really based on two issues. Its based upon the vulnerabilities in 5g on software updates, but its ultimately based upon the fact that if you make your country dependent upon a system from a country where there is no independent judiciary or rule of law and that company at the end of the date is loyal to the political party, not to an open trading system, you know, you are going to be vulnerable, but with,e to couple that one, the ability to think about way wehelp finance the did through the first three or four generations of wireless where companys could provide the same kind of financing, we , andde the same financing we also have to have an that we can say this weaves into an area we have not done before. Oure start to say here are that have champions the staying power. Sure any of the companies out there think they have the staying power to backed byainst huawei chinese power. Back there. Keep your hands up. Go ahead and then we will take two more. Thank you very much. Senator warner, in your remarks i am a senior fellow at the u. S. Institute of peace. In your remarks, you had mentioned the growing outreach of china and the use of its military forces away from home, but then it can be argued that most of the western powers in their time of ascendancy did exactly the same as what china is doing. My question is isnt this criticism slightly out of place and selfcontradictory . Thank you. Senator warner repeat . Theou mentioned about growing chinese outreach and the use of their military forces away from home. That is something you mentioned in your remarks. My question is that it can be argued that at the time of ascendancy, most of the western powers did exactly the same that china is doing. Isnt this criticism of chinese behavior slightly misplaced and selfcontradictory . A couple more questions. This gentleman up here and write down here in the front. Hi, tim aiken. Also a constituent of the senator. Thank you for being here, sir. Prospects of reviving Transpacific Partnership im sorry, a second question im trying to work in here, what is the sustainability of the current, based on your intelligence perspective, the current communist leadership . Is there an opportunity for change, and how might that occur . Senator warner on the second one, id like to tell you, but id have to kill you. [applause] [laughter] thank you so much, senator warner. My name is elena keys, and im also your constituent. Is you mentioned theres 750 billion investment that is our defense budget. How do you think, based on what you said, it has to be reallocated and where new investments perhaps have to come, and should we make some particular Educational Programs and createpriority legislation to support that . Thank you so much. The first an omen, ambassador, your critique is 100 accurate. In many ways, the west had the expansionary, imperialistic tendencies. Even if note that least theemented, at of democracy,ues rule of law, individual rights, and some expression of freedom, leastnot perfect, was at the underlying argument. Fear china is doing is the Chinese Military expansion is still relatively small. The build a Road Initiative is oldfashioned 20thcentury imperialism, but what concerns me is that what china is actually exporting is an Economic System that is kind of a state run capitalism, but i think more frightening is what they have been able to create in terms of a surveillance state to monitorology peoples behavior in a way that anything thebeyond soviets have expended. We will building, your powerplant. We will build your road. We will offer you deeply discounted equipment and if you put that equipment in, we will find a way to monitor all of your people and all of your dissidents . That, to me, is a clash of values that democracies, no matter where they are located peoplethe world or inspired and democracy no matter where they live should be concerned about. I think we blew it when we tried trade dealis not a but rather a National Security deal, and the fact that both Political Parties have, you know, kind of walked away from multilateral trade agreements is of concern to me because i think there is a reason that we can help build those values in if we do it right. Some will argue that many of the countries we have bilateral relations with, i still think some International Economic is an effort with making, but the rest of the group has moved on, as you know, but i think that needs to be back on the agenda. I have alsotion, had a little bit of time and focus on the intervention into our democracy and 2016 and what russia did in 2016 they also did the french and president ial elections. If you add up all that russians american elections and french elections, its less than the cost of one f35 airplane. The reason we know there will be back is because it is effective and extraordinarily cheap. I talked to lots of folks in the defense establishment and this is where the reiterate and where the rhetoric and reality sometimes do not match up. I think we realize that 17 billion investing in these legacy systems, that longterm we cannot take that 750 billion and move it to 1. 5 trillion a year if we are really going to meet all the needs in cyber and misinformation, all the investment areas, really make are safe, butms the willingness of the defense establishment who said we agree with you, but we really dont says how doss that we actually reprioritize if we are going to try to save maybe not 500 billion, but we could we take 250 billion and move it into that cuttingedge research . I would argue for the economic andf our power and values position, that might be a better investment than simplifying more 20thcentury stuff. Us anator, you have given very comprehensive, very thorough framework both of the challenges and some prescriptions for how to move forward. I want to thank you for taking time out of a very busy schedule to come down to share that with us. We are grateful to have somebody with your knowledge and background and energy working with what is clearly a significant set of challenges. Senator warner thank you for this opportunity. Particularly thank the audience. That was the longest talk i have ever given. Subject andg, big by no means is it fully comprehensive, but it needs this kind of attention across all these areas, and im sure people in the crowd have good ideas to add to it as well. Well, thank you, everyone, who is online. Thank you, everyone, who joined us, and most especially, thanks to you, senator warner. It has really been a pleasure. Please join me in thanking senator warner. [applause] announcer cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up tuesday morning, a discussion on whistleblower laws that apply to the Intelligence Community with the National Whistleblower centers david kohler pinto, and California Democratic congressman shares the latest on President Trumps call with the ukrainian president and the subsequent whistleblower complaint. We will also talk about trumpet ministration religious freedom policies. Watch washington journal live at 7 00 eastern tuesday morning. Join the discussion. Live tuesday on the cspan networks, President Trump makes remarks at the United NationsGeneral Assembly in new york city. Our coverage begins at 10 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. At noon eastern, the u. S. House returns for general speeches, and at 2 00 p. M. , the house takes up several bills looking at humanitarian aid. On cspan two at 10 00 a. M. , the u. S. 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Please enjoy your meal. Oh, they got quiet. Oh, they did. Like its a Vigil Service tonight or something. Nd tonight, kellyanne