You said on National Television on march 25, 2018, that the special counsel had not asked to speak to you at that date . I dont know if they asked to speak to me at that date. You know your interview was on april 6, 2018. Is that accurate . Is that the date of the interview . Yes. If thats what the report says, i will take it to be accurate. You have made statements denying giving answers to the special counsel when you actually had. You were untrue about that, werent you sir . Are you talking about the media or a jurisdiction where i have been sworn to testify . Im talking about my public statements day im sorry, no one in congress has ever lied to the public before day is that an admission that you did lie . Absolutely not. So you deny that you ever lied in public statements what i am saying is, when under oath, ive always told the truth, whether it is before special counsel, whether it is before the House Intelligence Committee on two separate occasions or before the Senate Intelligence committee. Every time i raised my right hand of god, ive sworn and told the truth. Thats not my question to you. My question is, on National Television did you lie about your relationship with the special counsel and whether they sought your interview . I dont know. And did you lie because you are afraid the world would find out you could be exposed to criminal liability and would only address certain issues with a grant of immunity protecting your words from being used against you in a criminal prosecution . I will go back to what mister moeller stated. He will not answer the questions. I wont let you use me as a backdoor into his methods. If you want to question director moeller, you have the opportunity to do so, but clearly you didnt. So take them back here, bring them before the committee and ask those questions. Those questions are not for me. Let me ask you this, prior to the Mueller Report being redacted days did you ever misrepresent what you did on behalf of the president . I cant think of in incidents where that may have occurred. Let me show you an interview you did on may 14, 2019. Excuse me, from february 22, 2008 team. Let me show it to you. Excuse me, may 14, 2019. I dont remember the president ever asking me to get involved with Jeff Sessions or the department of justice in any way, shape, or form, ever. Did you hear that, sir . That was you saying on msnbc that you dont ever remember the president asking you and to get involved with Jeff Sessions or the department of justice in any way, shape or form. That wasnt true, was it sir . I heard that. And that wasnt true, was it sir . I have no obligation to be dishonest to the media because they are as dishonest as anybody else. So you are admitting, sir, that you werent being truthful, correct . My interview . You can interpret it anyway you like. Would you like me to play it again . Youre welcome to, please. I dont ever recall the president asking me to get involved with Jeff Sessions or the department of justice in any way, shape or form ever. And it is true in may 2019 you absolutely remembered when the president asked you to deliver a message to the attorney general for a speech intended to give for the special counsel investigation, is not correct . I would have to think about it. Are you saying, sir, you may have forgotten it before you are interviewed, just before the report was publicly released . Im saying my memory was much fresher when i give the testimony so when you said you did not remember the president ever asking you to get involved with Jeff Sessions or the department of justice, you were saying, you were being truthful . Sir i dont believe there is any reason to consult with your counsel. The question is, are you a truth teller in that interview . Im a truth teller anytime i stand before congress or a committee of jurisdiction and raise my hand and swear under oath. My questions are is when you said the president never asked you days i have no obligation to candid conversation with the media, just like they have no obligation to cover me honestly and they do it all the time. You are admitting on National Television you are lying . I have been inaccurate on many occasions and many i was in inaccurate that time. You are under oath and the reason why you didnt admit that the president had asked you to deliver a message to the attorney general about investigations was because you knew it was wrong and you are concerned about your own exposure and he didnt have immunity in that interview. Isnt that correct . Which interview . The one we just watched three lied about the president asking you to deliver a message. I didnt know i could get immunity from a media outlet. I want to clarify, that interview was february 22, 2019, just to be clear. Sir, let me ask you a question. What was the inaccuracy earlier, because i miss that . Did you say that because you wanted to protect the president . Not to my recollection. Sir, did you deny it because you wanted to protect yourself . Not to the best of my recollection, mr. Berke. Why did you lie on National Television about the president giving you a message about the special counsel investigation . I dont remember that particular day and my mind at the time, so i couldnt answer that. Could you offer any reason why you would lie on national tv other than protecting yourself and the president . I know earlier the chairman asked pretzel witnesses not to guess, so i will not guess unless the chairman is changed his mind. You determined you would be criminal exposed i didnt say that. I said if you would like me to take a guess, which the chairman asked previous witnesses he didnt want guessing. If we are changing the rules again, will be happy to take a guess with the caveat that i dont remember that interview. I dont remember the particular day and what was transpiring in my life. With that said, i dont recall it. Sir, let me ask you about your earlier testimony, a few minutes ago that your truthful when you take an oath, as you did earlier today before this committee. I would like to pull up a slide you are asked about earlier today. This was the actual statement you made to the special counsel that you said was accurate. That is a direct quote from the report on page 92 and it says lewandowski did not want to meet at the department of justice because he did not want a public log of his visit. You are asked about that. You deny you told the special counsel you did not want a public log of your visit with the attorney general . I believe ive answered that question, but i dont deny that is an accurate representation of what i told the special counsel. And is it an accurate representation of what you said before that i did not follow that you did not want a public log of your visit because you wanted a casual dinner with the special counsel and that is why he didnt want there to be a record, is that your testimony today sir . I had no intention of having dinner with the special counsel. Im sorry, with the attorney general. Could you restate the question. The reason you didnt want the log is because you wanted to have a casual dinner with the attorney general, is that accurate . That seems to be accurate. It has nothing to do with why you wouldnt want a public log of your visit, does it . It does. When in fact you didnt want to public log, because you knew what youre doing was wrong. Just as the president went to a nonofficial government employee, you wanted to make sure there wasnt a record of it. Is not right . No. You agree a log creates a record . Yes. And you agree you didnt want a record of your visit and that is why you didnt go to the department of justice, because you didnt want to public log, correct . Ive never been to the department of justice. I didnt want to find out what happens at the department of justice based on whats happened whether people involved at the department of justice, to be honest with you. My question is you didnt want to go because you didnt want a public log of the visit . Are you asking the same question i just answered . Ive testified thats whats in the Mueller Report about a public log is the best of my recollection. It is because you didnt want a Public Record of it, correct . I believe i said my quote is did not want to meet at the department of justice because he did not want a public log. That is a quote that someone in the special counsels team clearly referenced is something i said, though i dont think i wouldve spoken about myself in the third party. You also said you didnt want the attorney general to have an advantage over you, correct . I think that is also an accurate representation, but i would have to be made aware of where that is again. On page 92, right in front of you. I ask you again, if you didnt think you were doing anything wrong and you are being brought in to pressure and bully the attorney general, why did you not want him to have an advantage over you . Jeff and i were friends and had been friends and seeing him in a social environment where we could sit down and have a meal, at his house, my house or a washington dc restaurant to have a conversation was something i thought was better than for the both of us. You didnt want him to have an advantage over you, because you are trying to assert leverage as the president wanted you to give a message about the special counsels investigation. No, mr. Berke. Sir, let me show you another statement you made in a fox news interview on april 19, 2019. Yeah, i never delivered any document to Jeff Sessions. I never had an indepth conversation with senator sessions or attorney general Jeff Sessions. I spoke with him on dozens of occasions, but never did i ask him to interfere with the mueller investigation. Never did i ask him to do anything other than what was completely legal, which was to continue to do his job. Sir, that was april 19, the day after the redacted Mueller Report came out on april 18. Sir, you said you never delivered a message to Jeff Sessions. Thats what you said, right . You are asked to deliver that message, is not correct sir . I believe thats accurate. As comprised in the report, yes. But the meeting never transpired. And you said you never did anything other than what was completely legal and you said that because you knew if you delivered the message that told the attorney general to instruct the special counsel to limit the investigation to exclude the president , that would not be legal. Is not correct, sir . Mr. Berke, i didnt have the privilege of going to Harvard Law School and im not an attorney. What i know is i didnt think at the time the president asked me to deliver a message, i didnt think there was anything illegal about it. I didnt have the privilege to go to harvard law, so if youre telling you that is your opinion, that is your opinion, but i never assume so, havent thought about it you did think about it. What else have i thought about, mr. Berke . Point of order, mister chairman. The witness doesnt get to ask questions. You have to answer them. Let me ask you, sir. You are asked about why you didnt deliver the message. You said you went on vacation for two weeks. Over a month after the president delivered the message for you to deliver to Jeff Sessions, you didnt deliver it, because you met a month later on july 17. Is that correct . I believe thats what the report says. So you can back from vacation for two weeks and even went to washington to meet with the president. Why didnt you deliver the message the president asked you to deliver unless you didnt deliver it because you knew it was improper to deliver . Mr. Berke, it wasnt a priority. For who . For me. It was a priority for the president , is not right . You would have to ask the president. Didnt he tell you it was a priority. Didnt he ask you and your second meeting, did you deliver the message to the attorney general . I cant answer any questions not in the Mueller Report. Sir, let me ask you a question, you remember the president asking you that . Can you reference the page number . You remember testifying earlier that the president said if mister prez sessions will not meet with you, you should tell him he is fired, correct . If there is a reference to the report, it has been a long day you recall testifying to that earlier today . Its been a long day. I believe to the best of my knowledge that thats what i said let me ask you, if it wasnt a priority to deliver the message, why did you enlist mr. Dearborn to deliver the message . Again, i cant speak to a private conversation i wouldve had. Im not asking private conversations, the fact you did it is disclosed in the report. Im asking why did you do it . I knew mister mr. Dearborn. Can i answer now . Please. I knew him since his tenure as chief of staff for mister sessions. He was my primary point of contact during the Term Campaign and i knew that mr. Dearborn had continued like i did have a longstanding relationship with jeff and if i wasnt going to be seeing jeff, i figured rick would be able to deliver that message. Sir, did you try to see mister sessions again . Did you call and see if he would meet with you this time . Not after please answer the question. Not best of my recollection. And the reason you didnt call them, so when you said you are friendly with, was because you knew what he asked you to do is wrong and you didnt want to get in trouble. Thats why you didnt do it . Mr. Berke, i have asked and answered that question. Im not a lawyer, but i didnt think he was asking me to do something unlawful at the time and i dont think that is the case now. Sir, didnt mr. Dearborn tell you he had handled the situation and delivered the message . I dont recall that conversation, but its possible. Let me show you what mr. Dearborn told the special counsel. He told you he handled the situation, but he had not actually followed through. You recall that, sir . I dont know if i recall that. Let me ask you why the president thought you might be prepared to deliver a message that everyone in his administration that he asked refused to deliver. Am i correct that a few weeks before you met with the president in june, 2017, you had a conversation with senior staff about joining the administration in a very senior role . Im sorry, the question was which timeframe . A few weeks before he met with the president the first time in june, 2017, and he asked you to deliver a message to the attorney general. And the question is what sir . Did you have discussions with the senior staff about joining the administration and a senior role . I cant speak to conversations i may or may not have had with senior Staff Members of the administration to preserve the privilege theyve invoked. So it such a sacred privilege you would not disclose private medications, because that would be wrong. Is that your testimony . No, i testimony as the white house directed me not to disclose conversations with the president or his advisors. Im respecting the decision of the white house. Sir, did you publish a book in which you disclosed these very conversations . Which book are you referencing . Ive written two New York Times bestsellers. Im talking about let trump be trump. Point of order, mister chairman. I request that the chair order the witness to answer the question. I did answer, i wrote the book, let trump be trump, available at fine bookstores everywhere. Let me ask you about things you wrote in your book. You recall you met at the white house, right . Late in the day 2017, do you recall that . I do recall meeting van with mister trump in the oval office, in late may of 2017, yes. Let me show you, sir. Here is what you wrote. Just after his first trip abroad as president , correct . I dont know his travel schedule as well as you do, but it is possible. Let me show you what you wrote. Multiple times during his trip abroad and the plane ride home, the boss talked about bringing us into restore order to the west wing. Is that what you wrote, sir . I mean, it looks like i wrote it. And you recall sir, before he met with the president , his chief of staff, and his Senior Advisor steve bannon, described what kind of role you are being considered for, do you recall that sir . I cant describe public conversations. I know you cant discuss it, but you can write about it. You should buy the book, it is very good. Lets look at it. So you wrote, the plans that were shared with you will oversee political operations, president ial appointments and campaign handling of russian meddling in the 2016 election. You would be on the same level as jared, a Senior Advisor. Is that true that they were talking about you in late may joining that position and playing that role . The book is accurate. If you keep going on, you met with the president and the president said he didnt want to do it, right now, meaning when you met with them, because if the place isnt better in the next four or five weeks, i am firing everyone. Is that correct . Again, i believe the book is accurate. And you thought this was a great opportunity like you wrote, like a little kid getting to play in the world series, correct . Is that what you wrote . Yes, having the opportunity to be in the white house yeah, it is an amazing opportunity. And sir, you know for donald trump, as you wrote next, loyalty is the currency of the realm and nothing hurts him deeper than when someone he trusts is disloyal. Is that correct . I believe that is in the book. So when he asked you, a few weeks after this meeting, to deliver this message, as a nongovernment employee to the attorney general, you knew that you are being considered for a senior position on the same level as Jared Kushner and you also knew how the president values loyalty. Is not correct . No sir. You deny that those conversations happened that you just talked about . No sir. And i was weeks before he met with the president , correct sir . I met in late may, as the book detailed accurately. But you also read the rest of the paragraph, which said we dont want you to come in at this time, because of it doesnt work out, i am going to fire everybody. He said now, because he was dangling the position at the most senior level for you, is not correct . Thats a question for the president of the united states, sir. And he would know that he dangled it, therefore you would do his bidding to deliver a secret message to the attorney general that everyone he asked to do it wouldnt do, correct . No, sir. Let me ask you about this role you are going to have. We can show you another quote you wrote about how this would be described. Part of the duties, if we can go to the next slide, its that priebus said you would come in and run the russia investigation. Is it true you are being told you are being considered to come in to run the investigation of russias influence in the 2016 president ial campaign, just weeks before you were asked to tell the attorney general to limit the special counsels investigation to future elections . Is that true that you are asked to come in, that you are being considered to run the russia investigation . Is that a true fact . Its true that that is what mr. Priebus wanted, yes. Was it your understanding that he would bring in his former Campaign Manager to run the investigation of whether russia influenced the campaign and did something improper with the campaign, is that what your understanding was, sir . Its a question of mr. Priebuss understanding. What i want to know is when he asked you to deliver the message to tell the special counsel not to investigate the 2016 campaign, that you, sir, were under consideration yourself to be brought in by the president to run the very investigation of the 2016 campaign and russian interference that you had previously been involved in. Is not correct . Not to the best of my knowledge, no. It was not raised with you that you would be considered to run the russia investigation . That was mr. Priebuss idea, not the president. And mister bannon, correct . I dont know, it was possible. And the president discussed with you how much he wanted you to join the administration as part of that meeting as he was on his way back, is not what you said . I didnt speak with him while he was overseas. On his way back, thats what you wrote. I dont believe i said i spoke with the president while he traveled overseas. Did he raise you joining the administration before that meeting . I have spoken to the president and president elect multiple times about opportunities, but i cannot convulse divulge those conversations. You artie did in your book. I stated it was mr. Priebuss idea. You wrote that multiple times, the boss talked about bringing assent to restore order to the white house. Didnt write that, sir . If thats what the book says, i dont have it in front of me. Yes it does. Okay, we would like to see that so i can verify it. We wont take the time, we saw the slide earlier. Sir, let me ask you a question. The special counsel report found systematic interference by russians in the election, correct . I would like to restate ive never read the special counsels report. You take the report lightly . You think its not a serious matter what the special counsel did . You are putting words in my mouth, never have i stated that. You know youre mentioned 129 times, correct . Is that accurate . Do you know, 129 times . I dont know. You know last week you were appearing to sign autographs of the report and said you couldnt sign every page because were mentioned so much . Its a misrepresentation of something someone else said. Did you go and sign copies of the report . I did, but i never read the report. You make light of the role and russias attempt to interfere in the election . Im outraged that your characterization of my statements. Never have i said that, never have i called into question the validity of the Mueller Report or alluded to the fact that i wanted russia to interfere. My testimony has been completely the opposite, so for you to intimate that that is what my statement is about the Mueller Report, is grossly out of line. Sir, let me show you something about the Mueller Report that you agreed to sign at an event. If we can go to the next slide, please. Sir, so you asked, this is the findings. You dont have any reason to dispute the findings the mister sessions was recused and wasnt allowed to participate, do you . I have no idea what the findings of the report were, i have not read the report as ive testified to on dozens of occasions today. Let me go to the next slide. The special counsel concluded that taken together the president s campaign, the purpose of the message was to have you tell the attorney general to move forward with investigating election meddling for future elections. You have any reason to dispute that from the report about the special counsel and your conduct . Again, ive answered this question. Asked and answered. I would ask you to answer it, sir. The gentleman will answer the question whether he answered before or not. Have stated to the best of my knowledge, most of the information in the Mueller Report is accurate. The gentlemans time has expired. Without objection, the minority will designate a staff member to conduct the questioning you are wideranging definition of staff, i am staff. You are not staff. Yes i am. Interns, people, i am staff. Youre not staff, you are a member. Just as we are not permitting any member in the majority under the five minute rule, i am not going to permit i wont interrupt. I wont permit half an hour beyond what minority members had. If you have a staff member, you will designate him or her. That is what the rules call for and if not, we will adjourn. I wish you designated a staff member, that wouldve been nice. We did. Mister chairman, with cameras rolling you are going to deny a member of congress, the Ranking Member of this committee, his time. I know you have willing accomplices in the majority, thats fine. Its done. Have we really come to this point, mister chairman . The gentleman will suspend. The rules of the committee provide for members of the house, members of the committee i should say, for members of the committee to question witnesses under the five minute rule. Weve done that. The rules of the committee, as amended by the procedures adopted last week, permit the majority and minority each to designate a staff member to examine the witness for 30 minutes. If you wish to designate a staff member, you may do so. A member of the house is not a staff member. Give me just a moment, i am thinking about my designation. We will stand in recess for one minute while the gentleman considers his appointment. Mister chairman, i did not ask for recess. You wanted a minute. I did not, i am thinking as i talk to you, because i could make a guy walk across, my intern, and they are staff. You said in turn, they are not paid. This is amazing. I will take my minute and i may take three minutes to figure out just so everyone is clear, we are in a one minute recess. Mister [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] were going to leave the hearing which is in recess at this point to return to the house. A reminder, the hearing will be live on cspan3 when they return. The house is about to return for votes. Youre watching live coverage on cspan