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Sen. Graham todays hearing is going to be holocaust era insurance claims, what to do about it. It is a difficult topic in many ways, but i am glad we are having the hearing. Senator feinstein, i will not have an opening statement. I defer to you. Sen. Feinstein get settled here. First of all, thank you, mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing. Today, we are discussing holocaust era insurance claims. Before anding during the second world war, many europeans purchased insurance policies to protect their assets and loved ones, while many of these individuals perished as victims of the holocaust. Those who survived and the heirs of those that did not have since attempted to collect the proceeds from those policies. Haveer, beneficiaries found it difficult to collect on these policies because paperwork had often been left behind or destroyed during the genocide. To remedy this injustice, american insurance regulators, european Insurance Companies, the state of israel, and jewish and survivor organizations in 1998 established icheic. That is the International Commission on holocaust era insurance claims. Was twofold. First, icheic would identify Holocaust Victims that purchase insurance policies. Second, icheic would administer the repayment of those policies using relaxed standards of proof so that claimants who lack documentation or faced other barriers to repayment could sue still receive some measure of justice. Facilitated the payment of over 300 million to almost 48,000 Holocaust Survivors, their heirs, and the families of Holocaust Victims. Icheic paid an additional 100 69 Million Dollars toward you mandatory in holocaustenefiting survivors. All of this was done at no cost to the claimant, to maximize the amount of compensation that went to survivors and heirs of the victims. In icheic process ended 2007. Since then, some european insurers have continued to pay claims voluntarily. The new York State Insurance Department has helped process the claims of individuals who missed icheic deadline. The state department, under , bush, andlinton obama, argued in court that the exclusive process for resolving holocaust era insurance claims. Several jewish and survivor groups, including the Antidefamation League, the american gathering of jewish alsoaust survivors, supported icheic and the ongoing new york state process as the best way to resolve those claims. Is question before us today whether the icheic process and the ability to submit newly discovered claims to the new York State Department of Financial Services works. Some of the witnesses on our panel argue that new legislation is necessary. I very much thank you for calling this hearing. I think it is an interesting issue and it will be interesting to see what happens. Thank you. Sen. Graham i am glad i deferred to you. Perfect sense. Senator scott, we look forward to hearing from you. Scott thank you for holding this important hearing today. I would like to welcome David Mermelstein. Czechoslovakiain and was sent to auschwitz until the American Liberation of the camp. David, i am grateful you could join us to testify on this important topic so we can make sure our Holocaust Survivors, like yourself, deceive the help you need and deserve. Thank you also to the entire panel of witnesses who will appear today and for all those who are working to make sure we honor the memory of the millions of Holocaust Victims and that we do everything in our power to support the survivors and their families. The holocaust is more than a history lesson. It is a stark reminder that people and hate exist in this world. Took arnor of florida, i stand against discrimination and prohibited state agencies and local governments from contracting with Companies Boycotting israel because supporting israel should never be a partisan issue. Our memory of all of those who have suffered must never weaken. Every generation must heed the call to action in the face of evil. This is the enduring lesson to mankind. Sen. Graham thank you, senator scott. You have come to be several times about the importance of the hearing. I appreciate your compassion. Come forward, please. Sure. Whatever works for you all. Great. Thank you all for coming. Mr. Ave on our panel today bard level, Congressional Research. Webel, mr. David how do you say your last name . , president ofn the Holocaust Survivors of miamidade county, florida. Beennna rubin, mr. Sam dew mr. Stuartin, and , former u. S. Special basinger at the state Department Special ambassador at the state department. We will start mr. Weibel. Webel. Mr. Webel i am a specialist in financial at the Congressional Research service. Just for memos of the audience who might not be familiar with crs, we are a division of the library of congress. Our role is to provide objective, nonpartisan research and analysis to congress. Position on the desirability of any specific policy nor advocates for a policy outcome. I have provided written testimony with increased detail about the issues we are talking about today. I would also like to recognize whooauthor at crs contributed to that testimony. I am going to Start Talking about the preworld war ii Insurance Markets and get into the efforts to provide compensation after the fact and finish in talking about pauls evaluations that are at significant policy evaluations that are issued today. Preworld war ii, insurance was not only designed to compensate in the event of a death of a loved one but had significant Asset Allocation accumulation. Policies typically ran for 20 years. At the end of the policy, if the person was still alive, they would receive the value at that time. They could have a surrender value beforehand. These were significant assets for the Jewish Population and other populations of the area. By the nazipolicy government to attempt to x appropriate these and other assets. There werewar ii, efforts, particularly in west germany at the time, provide compensation, restitution to people who had suffered and for people who had had these assets taken from them. People,forts, for many fell short of what was expected. This is especially the case in the eastern part of europe, under soviet domination, where companies had nationalized did not existrs following the communist takeover. For that part of europe, there was little to no compensation. In the 1990s, these issues came to the fore again in insurance and areas like slave labor, swiss bank accounts. There are a variety of International Efforts to address this, with icheic being the mode chosen in the insurance realm. Was an individualized claim driven process. They attended to identify potential claimants, to seek out claims, to adjudicate the claims with the reduced standard and to get resources to pay off those claims provided primarily from european Insurance Companies. A contrasting approach, which has been a significant source of the criticism that has come of icheic, could be seen as a macro, topdown approach to consider how much insurance and insurance assets might have been outstanding in Central Eastern europe at the time and to judge whether or not the icheic process has done a good job in paying off some value. ,s senator feinstein mentioned about 300 million was paid in another 169heic, Million Dollars in other compensation. These are values from the early part of the 2000s. If you adjust that to the present day, you get up a little bit higher depending on what rates you use. Estimates for the present value of unpaid holocaust era insurance claims range from to 25mately 2 billion billion in current values. As an economist, i would say there are a variety of economic tools you can use to parse these numbers. Significantly, as you drill down to how the numbers are developed, you very quickly come to normative judgments about what the proper indices to use, what counts as paid or unpaid claims, and the like. I can go into greater detail in terms of how some of these numbers developed if members of the committee are interested. What i would probably leave on is simply that there is significant judgment, significant normative judgment and how you do this that the economic tools really only get you folks so far in determining what the right answer is. Look forwardwill to any questions you might have. Sen. Graham mr. Mermelstein. My name istein David Mermelstein. Talkingrn in chuck was czechoslovakia in 1928. ,y father was selfemployed selling beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes. The business was part of our house. Deported towere all a ghetto and then to shreds , crammed into cars with no windows. They put in two buckets, one for a bathroom and one for drinking. My parents, my poor brothers, my sister, grandfather were all murdered in auschwitz. I am the only member of my family to survive because my time is limited here, i give you my deposition about the hungarian goat train to tell you how i survived. Lucky. Me, i was now, lets talk about the insurance. I remembered there was a flag on our house that said it was insured by generali. , forve no documents obvious reasons. When we came home, there was nothing left in the house. For a state law to make companies publish all the names and allow survivors to go to court if they will not settle. That is when companies came up with the idea of icheic commission because pressure. Everyone told us icheic was not binding unless you agreed to a settlement, so with all those promises, they say they could find my fathers name. 1000end me a check for as humanitarian payment. Survivors resented the idea of humanitarian payments instead of the actual fund we know our parents set aside in case of trouble. Are also in shock that the u. S. Government took away our right to go to an American Court. Remember, those are contracts, not charities. How would those judges feel if they were to lose everything and then their own government said they could not even go to an American Court . Then their own government said they could even go to court. Like every other american citizen, they would not stand for it and we will not either. Im here to ask you to change that. Sadly, you might hear from some jewish groups that are against Congress Passing the law, but repeat, they i are not holocaust survivor groups and do not represent survivors in any way. I have more bad news. Half of Holocaust Survivors live in poverty and cannot afford basic necessities of life. Even though germany gives more money every year, it is still not nearly enough. It does not matter that our insurance right was taken away. Most survivors are poor and suffering anyway. We have in writing from the german ambassador that they would never threaten to withhold funds from survivors. Thousands of survivors suffered and died in misery over these past 50 years and it was so unnecessary. 25 billion is what the company so. E believe companies owe we believe all policies should be honored in full value and the rest should be used to help survivors in need. Congress, the by Insurance Companies will beat the heads of the victims of the holocaust. This on acceptable this is unacceptable. I am 90 years old, about to turn 91. I have visited hundreds of ,lassrooms, not only in florida speaking to students and adults about my experience. I enjoys not because telling the stories. They are mostly very sad. Thatthis because i believe all people have an obligation to become educated about the and tost, to remember it make a personal commitment that they will do everything they can to never let such atrocities happened again, not to the jewish people and not to anyone else. With i will be more than willing to stay after this anybody thatalk to would like to ask or talk about all the stories that i told you. Thank you very much. Sen. Graham thank you, sir. Mr. Dubbin. My name is sam dubbin, council of the Holocaust Survivors foundation, usa. On behalf of the survivor community, we thank you for holding the hearing and members for coming here. I am saddened to report that one of the groups founding members passed away over the weekend. Was a remarkable man, a survivor who rebuilt his life to ofn 10 emmys as a producer the abc wide world of sports and hours educating schoolchildren and advocating for Holocaust Survivors. Legislation is necessary to totore survivors rights pursue claims against global insurers who failed to honor policies they sold Holocaust Victims. Held thate court survivors rights were preempted based upon an executive Branch Policy that Holocaust Survivors come alone among all americans, should be limited in their ability to recover insurance policies, limited to the icheic commission. The basis of the policy was state Department Press releases and congressional testimony. No treaty, no act of congress, andct of Congress Exec of order has any preemptive effect. Executive order has any preemptive effect. Only congress can now correct a major historic injustice. The opponents make three arguments first, peace. They say the insurers were promised legal peace if they participated in icheic. This is not true. Icheic itself was always understood to be voluntary unless a claimant accepted an offer of payment. Government the u. S. Never promised Insurance Companies immunity from litigation. The executive agreement from germany negates that argument. It states the United States does not suggest that its policy interest concerning the foundation in themselves provided independent basis for dismissal of claims. Number three, the clinton senatorion feinstein, i would like to make sure you hear what i am going to say the Clinton Administration negotiated that. They said expressly the agreement does not preclude individuals from filing suit on their insurance policies in court, does not mandate individual policyholders or beneficiaries bring their claim to icheic. The Clinton Administration said the United States has not undertaken the duty to achieve legal fees for german Insurance Companies against state litigation and regulations. The second major argument the opponents make is that legislation would undermine negotiations with germany and others for assistance to survivors. Whyne has ever explained generali and others should be able to retain billions of dollars they owe to jewish customers from contracts to induce germany to provide assistance to Holocaust Survivors. The logic and morality germanys ambassador rejected any such linkage in a letter he sent in 2008. He wrote, well we continue to oppose a 1746 and similar bills, germany has never threatened to respond by cutting benefits to survivors and we have no intention to do so in the future. Whatever benefits opponents claim to have created by destroying Survivors Insurance big picture is awful. Half of all survivors live in poverty and have never received anywhere close to the care they need for peace and doing take in their final year dignity and their final years. Members of the Senate Select committee on aging made a statement that evidence before them proved that levels of homecare funding by the claims conference would meet only 25 of the current needs of impoverished survivors. After a decade4, of doubling from germany all the time. Emergency Care Services has not funding for that has not increased. One of the exhibits we gave you, and the package i sent, is a chart that measures what would be the need for an average atvivor of 20 hours a week 15. Of red represents the amount on provided care for destitute survivors. It is in the billions every year. The regime of giving the Insurance Companies immunity to supposedly provide these benefits has resulted in tens of thousands of survivors suffering and dying without the care they need. Theme say that, as far as new york claims Processing Office is concerned, this is the same office made an argrr matt mead in 2008 made in 2008. In the four years after that, the new york claims office settled six claims for 70,000. They have never published any other information. The problem is that icheic itself was not an appropriate mechanism because it was flawed in many ways. I hope you ask questions about that because i see my time is running out. There is a lot you need to understand. In addition, i would submit that the we provided a letter from harry rose, a child of two german survivors who found the names on the icheic list of German Companies, went to the holocaust Processing Office in new york. The results are something you need to see. The bottom line is holocaust protectedshould be under u. S. Law. Companies should not be immune from having to pay money they owe. Whether it is to be in dollars or 25 billion, that money belongs to the victims, families. If the rest can go to survivors in need, that would be a great thing for this congress to accomplish. Could i had one thing . There are some jewish groups who oppose the legislation. Im authorized to announce that the Antidefamation League and the Jewish Federation of north america have said they are no longer going to oppose this legislation. Groups including the Zionist Organization of america have cemented letters. They maintain support for what survivors are trying to achieve. Ms. Rubin good morning, members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and share is that better . Tonk you for the opportunity appear before you today and share knowledge on holocaust era insurance claims. As director of the holocaust claims Processing Office, the i am pleased provide insight into our efforts to provide some measure of justice to the victims of a painful. Hapter in World History the state of new york has been at the forefront of an ensuring. In june 1997, it established the hcpo. Claimants pay no fee for hcpo services, nor does the office take assets recovered. Our goal is to advocate for claimants by helping relieve any costs they might encounter in trying to pursue claims on their own. Since its inception, the office has helped individuals from 43 states, the district of columbia, and 43 and countries. The combined total of offers amounts to more than 178 million, 34 million of which is compensation for insurance policies. In response to the complex nature of restitution claims, method. Loys a four step first, it undertakes general Historical Research to corroborate and contextualize information regarding the Insurance Industry and prewar europe. The result of which have shown germany was the largest prewar Insurance Market in Continental Europe and had the most comprehensive postwar compensation program. In contrast, poland, the country with the largest number of victims of nazi persecution, played a relatively minor role in the industry. Realistic expectations of what policy specific information can be found in archives co. Records must take this backdrop into account. Since 1998, hundreds of thousands of potential archivesder names from have been published online for the office uses this information in conjunction with research in public and private archives to obtain evidence. This has proven critical to resolving claims. To hcpo determines where file a claim, meaning what presentday company or process is responsible for the policy in question. Finding the appropriate successor is relatively straightforward. For others, determining the successor is more complex. In many cases, there is no presentday successor. Third, relying on relaxed standards of proof, claims are submitted to all available venues. Under these commonly separate evidentiary standards, which are not as trend in stringent as those imposed by courts, a claim should not be rejected on the grounds that the claimant lacks complete document terry evidence. Documentary evidence. In march 2007, with the , the germancheic Insurance Association reiterated their commitment. Companies generally continue to apply icheic valuation standards, although they are no longer obligated to do so since the closing of icheic. The hcpo continues to deal with Insurance Companies resolve outstanding claims. The final step in the process involves evaluating decisions to ensure they adhere to the agreedupon processing guidelines. Like the missing property research, no two claims are alike. Each requires conscientious individual attention and painstaking effort, a task helped by increased archival and library cooperation. The process of restitution can be difficult and distressing. Has brought closure to victims and errors. The approach to claims resolution shows it is possible to obtain compensation for assets lost during the holocaust era through mutual cooperation and at no cost to claimants. In closing, from a meet to suggest that if we strive to achieve our common goal permit me to suggest that if we strive to achieve our common goal as swiftly as possible, it behooves us all to manage claimants expectations and not raise an exaggerated sense of what might be accomplished through litigation. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the hcpo. I would be happy to address any questions. Thank you for holding the hearing and for your continued interest in the welfare of survivors. Im testifying in my personal capacity today. I ask that my full statement be made part of the record. Providing justice for Holocaust Survivors and families of victims and preserving the memory and lessons of the holocaust for succeeding generations has been a central part of my life through four u. S. Administrations and beyond in my voluntary negotiations with the jewish claims office. Layed a central role in it in the creation of the u. S. Holocaust memorial museum. I the Clinton Administration, negotiated eight dollars of recoveries for swiss and french bank accounts. Restitution of Nazi Looted Art through the i negotiated with over 40 countries the return of communal and real property, the payment of insurance policy, and most recently the deportation of jews on the french railway. In my work sense with the claims conference, we have increased monthly pensions worldwide. When i started in 2009, there were 34 million euros. This coming year, 500 million euros. We have now provided 24 7 homecare coverage, which did not exist before. We have covered a new program for child survivors. We have dramatically increased pensions. None of this is enough, but it is dramatic. My passion for holocaust justice and memory and my experience in negotiating in four administrations Major International agreements leads me to say to you respectfully that any legislation similar to what was considered last year, which would provide a cause of action against european Insurance Companies and u. S. Courts, would have potentially catastrophic negative effects. First, in unprecedented ways, it would undermine legally Binding International executive agreements going back almost 20 austrianh german and governments and with their private companies. Therehe German Companies, were 1000 German Companies who participated in the payment of 10 billion euros, 5 billion. The have been in place for almost 20 years. In return for these large payments from germany and some 800 million from austria, the companies were given what we called legal peace. These agreements were reached with some of the toughest, most renowned class action lawyers all over the country, who agreed to dismiss their suits in return for the payment of 10 billion toys marks deutschmarks. We did not remove the right to sue. We could not. What we did say and what we have done is that if suits are brought, contrary to these agreements, the u. S. Government would initiate a statement of interest, saying that it had been and was and is in the National Security interest of the United States to resolve claims in a nonlitigation context. And as. Supreme court judge, later attorney general under president bush, both indicated that these were appropriate uses of president ial authority. A case dealt precisely with the insurance issue. Imagine the chaos of allowing new suits under these circumstances. Second, it would complicate future holocaust negotiations since the word of the u. S. Government could not be trusted. There are still many things that need to be done in the holocaust area. Art and property issues as well. The credibility of the United States would be whichwhen under the requires the state department in november to give a report card on how all the countries of the declaration i negotiated with 46 countries. We are judging them on whether they have met their obligations. Here, we will be withdrawing from International Obligations that we reached. Any legislation would be contrary to longstanding bipartisan policy to preserve resolve holocaustrelated claims processes andon with dramatically lower burdens of proof than any federal court would require. It will lead beneficiaries of holocaust insurance policies to a cruel fate of pursuing lengthy, costly come almost certainly fruitless litigation with claimants facing high standards of proof in federal courts. Instead of using the low levels of proof under the icheic process. Undermine theld work of the state insurance commissioner, who in 1998 voluntarily took the lead in creating icheic along with european insurers, jewish organizations, the state of membersall of whom were , and the leadership of icheic. Im sure senator graham must have worked with Larry Eagleburger. Larry tirelessly worked as head of icheic for 10 years. He was strongly supported by powellne albright, colin. I can assure you Larry Eagleburger is as tough as anyone possible. He would not have ever permitted european insurers to pull the wool over his eyes. By the time icheic closed its doors in 2007, its Insurance Companies had paid 306 million to 48,000 victims using relaxed standards of proof lower than any u. S. Court would demand. Please understand half of the claims did not even have the name of the Insurance Company because the documents did not exist. They were able to match over 16,000 claims that had no names of Insurance Companies three tedious process. When they could not find any evidence, they ended up making humanitarian payments as well. There is no court anywhere that would accept this lower burden of proof. Overseen not just by Larry Eagleburger but by all the member organizations of icheic, including esteemed individuals like the former Bank Governor of the state of israel, holocaust survivor who specifically involved himself in the valuation of insurance policies. All the holocaust survivor groups, the American Jewish organizations, the american Insurance Commissioners closely reviewed the procedures and handling of individual claims and authored their own report. Sen. Graham mr. Ambassador, you need to wrap up. Ambassador eizenstat the claims deadline was extended six times. For the last, congress has held eight hearings. This is the ninth. At each time, it is been decided not to go forward with legislation for many of the reasons i have mentioned. Legislation would also fly in the face of opposition from every age or American Jewish every age or American Jewish organization and from major American Jewish organization and from the world Jewish Federation of child survivors, the holocaust recitation committee, and many more. Restitution committee, and many more. I do have suggestions of what this committee could deal constructively. In addition, they could look at why, if any claims were resolved or denied, those were done. They can memorialize the 519,000 names of potential Holocaust Survivors so that if any future claims can be brought under these were standards they can recover under procedures that no court would ever allow to be done. Thank you. Graham thank you. If you look at the number of money here, all the people who have paid into the insurance system before the nazis destroyed the system is somewhere between 2 billion and 25 billion. Is that what you were saying . For one thing, a lot of this money was from a Company Perspective paid out before the war because part of the expropriation sen. Graham how much was taken . Mr. Webel what you have is estimates for the unpaid value of the assets, some i think you can say between 2 billion and 25 billion. Sen. Graham can you say that the claims process when you combine new york and this international system, has recovered less than 500 million . The 2 billion is probably a presentday number. Time, youust for the probably get around 700 million. Sen. Graham taking the most generous number of 2 billion, not 25 billion, and bringing it to presentday, the Current System is basically recaptured less than half . Is that correct . Mr. Dubbin that is the most generous interpretation. It. Graham mr. Ambassador, is not working for my point of view. If you believe there is up to 25 billion of uncompensated claims owed and the Current System has generated 700 million, then somebody needs to look at something else. When ms. D add that rubin and mr. Eizenstat make the argument that they do not want to disappoint survivors if they lose in court, we respectfully disagree. Those who survived auschwitz, like David Mermelstein and other leaders of the organization, they should not be treated like children and they should not be lectured to about disappointment. Eizenstat, how. Do you respond to my observation that whatever process we have in place, that the money recovered is woefully inadequate even the pot of money available . Ambassador eizenstat i disagree respectfully. Sen. Graham what is the number . Ambassador eizenstat no one knows precisely care let me give you this figure. Germany has paid sen. Graham you disagree with what mr. Webel said . Ambassador eizenstat that is the total sum. We do not know the number of jewish people who had insurance. No one knows. We know the total european insurance orchid market. Largesthad the centage of insured insurance, 52 of the whole european market. Jews were less than half of 1 . Poland had 3. 5 million jews and almost no insurance. Own,ny has paid, on its 80 million since the end of the war. A significant part of that was , banksurance policies assets, and the like. In the 1950s and 1960s, the dutch, french, and germans had their own insurance papers. When you cumulate all of those plus the icheic process, plus what has happened post icheic, you have a substantial number. The fact is, no one can give you, including crs, an accurate figure of what number of victims had insurance, how large those policies were. Towe subject those claimants it would beedure, catastrophic. Sen. Graham theres a disconnect between the numbers he is giving me. I do not know what percentage of germany was jewish, that paid into an insurance system. I do not know if there was no insurance and poland. Nationugh every other where people were denied not only their art and houses in every thing else now were talking about insurance i find it hard to believe this is 700 million. The 25 billion estimate is the estimate of the jewish policies, not all of germany. He worked for icheic caret he went into the records how did you arrive at the number . The Jewish Population was known. They had a propensity of jewish people to buy insurance. They applied that propensity. That was unanimously accepted by icheic. Sen. Graham the icheic group evaluated the pot of money to be 25 billion . They evaluated the pot of money to be, based upon 800,000 policies, were thought 600 million at the end of the war, unpaid. They never actually put a value on that. Lets use a 30 u. S. Bond yield as a multiplier, not something any Insurance Committee would accept. Icheicn that, when finished, that 600 million unpaid would have been worth 70 billion. 25 billion is dollars 70 million. Today, that is 25 billion. We should not be loose with the facts. Icheic never accepted the valuation. They did their own report. They commissioned their own report by a north dakota insurance commissioner. They got nowhere near that figure. Sen. Graham senator feinstein. Mr. Dubbin, it is my understanding that even process closed, beneficiaries can still pursue claims through the new York State Department of Financial Services. Do you know of those that have done this . Mr. Dubbin i do. I can give you one example, harry rose for miami. Of germanild survivors. He went to the icheic website in 2011 and saw the name of his mother, his grandparents, citing german policies. By 2011, icheic was closed, so he went to the new york claims Processing Office. The way those names appeared on the icheic website from germany was that the german Insurance Association germany got special permission to do their own thing on icheic. Instead of having companies publish their own names, they allow the german interns Insurance Association to publish them on the website. The german Insurance Association knows how those names got on the website. When he applied to the new york Processing Office, the first thing they did was commission research. That took four months. Then they went to the german concerns association, who claims they had no idea where the names came from. They put the names there the first place. This is the same problem with icheic. There is no subpoena power. The companies can do what they want. Mr. Rose, whose parents and mother confirmed they had insurance, there was no way to force the companies to come forward and come clean. Feinstein the remedy to this is what . Mr. Dubbin requiring companies to publish the names. Sen. Feinstein so there is no requirement. Mr. Dubbin no requirement. It is voluntary for the names lessd by icheic, 20 than 20 of eastern europe. He is the guy who did the research into the industry. Even though there were names published, and even though people who found their familie names were denied claims by icheic, and i have a long list of cases i can show you, including what your constituents his greatgrandparents were from italy. Policy hisgenerali greatgrandparents owned a business and stayed. They were betrayed. They went to auschwitz. This story is in the package i gave you. She had a generali policy, but that policy never appeared on the icheic website. They had a researcher in the family who went and dug it out and demanded the generali information produce information and finally they admitted there was a policy. That was not even published. All of these socalled wonderful elements of icheic only resulted in a payment of 3 of the money. Money. It was conceptually selfcentered. Sen. Feinstein what are you suggesting . Mr. Dubbin legislation requiring the publication of names, a new federal course of action allowing survivors and heirs to bring a federal claimant to court modeled on the iranian terrorism model where when the courts get it wrong congress can come in and fix it, and a 10 year period of time for victims getting access to the information to bring those claims. To talk about long periods of time, when this bill passes, when Companies Know they are going to have to pay the attorneys fees, pay interest, they will cooperate. They will settle. It will be a complete lead different worlds. The world today of immunity is one where the survivors keep getting pushed around and disrespected. Sen. Feinstein i want to ask you to put the request of specifically what youre asking for in writing and send it to this committee so that we might look at it. Mr. Dubbin it is basically the bill you cosponsored in 2011 with senator nelson and senator rubio with a couple of minor changes. That draft legislation. May i respond to senator feinstein . Since the conclusion of icheic, the German Companies have paid 130 claims. Generali itself has paid. If the committee wishes, it can require the publication of all the lists. It can have hearings about why individual cases were not resolved under the relaxed standards, but for goodness sake, dont rip up to international agreements. Of course. You have the right to it. We do. But the Supreme Court has resolved it. I am very familiar with the facts. Thank you mr. Chairman. Taken to ensure were fairs decisions and unbiased . Can you talk about that process . I can talk about the valuation process and the specifics of generating the economic numbers. Claimss of actual processing, i would have to. Efer to other members if you could talk about the process you observed. They commissioned a specific report led by a french insurance executive that walked through and made estimates of how much you would have to do to estimate the asset value that might be outstanding. That includes the percentage of the Jewish Population, the propensity for the Jewish Population to purchase current values and so forth. Hey did not publish a official icheic number. The numbers they put out and numbershim current day from 1. 5 to 4. 5. In order to get to 25, what you are significantly doing is really adjudicating the german compensation postwar. Policies thating were compensated postwar. We have the north dakota insurance commissioner and the french that were involved in this process. Where other stakeholders involved . This is a report that was done by the icheic commission. Do you believe the icheic paid a fair amount . I have no way to make that judgment. What improvements do you think could be made to the current new york process . I am not familiar with the new york process. Thoughts going back to what you are recommending to congress . My recommendation is that the companies should come clean. They should be a compulsory process. The voluntary process was a disaster. They claimed that they had audits. All the audits did was determine whether the companies did what they said they were going to do. All of them were qualified with the following statement, our opinion is not a guarantee for the conduct of the insurer at any time. Mr. Eisenstadt talked about relaxed standards of proof. It imposed greater burdens of proof on the survivors. Claimsre allowed to deny. Big knowledge the policies have been sold. Florida, the burden is on the insurer to prove what happened to it. Icheic put the burden on the survivors to disprove an argument that Insurance Companies were making. Appellate arbitrators resigned because he said he was told to deny claims when people could not produce documentation. That is the antithesis of liberal standards of proof. A law that forces the companys to be accountable in the u. S. Legal system. Violating any agreements. I understand survivors and their families will go through the new york process with the state of new york. Would it be reasonable for other states to also go through other states . Not involved. What they did in new york was ineffective because they dont have any compulsion ability. They have to accept whatever the companies say. That is a good example of what happened with mr. Rose. I was fascinated to see what would happen when he made the claim. It was delays and excuses. In the end they said we dont know where the names came from. Whomonths later, his mom was alive, they were not able to validate they were going to get compensated. The companys would have to publish that information. Then we would get to the bottom of it. Less emphasis on who is processing and more unchanging the process. Establishing legal requirements and actual accountability. No one is supervising her. Thee was a statement by insurance commissioner in new york. It wasnt working. Thank you for your input. The Supreme Court in that 2003 ruling that the Clinton Administration supported for the commission preempted california effort to improve claims transparency. The dissent emphasized no clear declaration of preexemptions existed. Congress should be concerned about the Supreme Courts interpretation of preemption in that case. Do you agree . I agree. It was unprecedented. Haveyone else on the panel something to add to the issue of preemption and whether the Supreme Court got it right or wrong . We made a request to the Justice Department for documents relating to the insurance issue. Some ofvided documents them were memoranda that were included in this packet about how they should respond to the second circuit. They are very intelligent and very wry and what he rightly observed that even in cases where the u. S. Has filed a statement of interest, there is considerable tension that Foreign Policy requires dismissal of an action and the agreement itself does not provide an independent basis for dismissal. Supported generali anyway. It was not only the supreme him that saidity this was a proper use of executive authority, it was also a separate case by judge casey in the generali case who said the same thing. Going back to 1799, the u. S. Has agreementsexecutive to resolve claims. These have been upheld as an appropriate use of president ial authority. I testified many times before times on these12 very agreements. They were supported by large majorities on both sides of the aisle in the house and senate. We were applauded for negotiating these agreements when going to court would have been in defensively difficult. The spring court was right. Going back to the beginning of this republic, president s have the authority to negotiate these agreements. That is not really true. You and thenten to go on to my next question. In those days there was sovereign immunity. The u. S. Government collected executivems and made agreements so the people could get some compensation. Only the emergency of getting the hostages out of iran justified the assignment of claims by the u. S. Government in that case. Said thatndi court what is missing is congress, and congress has every right to change this if it disagrees with the outcome of that decision. That is the final line of that case. Anyone that wants to comment on this point, data from the commission indicates a total million. Ion of 300 offered awere onetime humanitarian payment of 1000. From what mr. You mermelstein said, the receipt of icheic thatk from said this is a humanitarian payment, that was an insult to Holocaust Survivors. It was like calling them liars. For the icheic defenders to now inlude those 1000 checks the gross amount of compensation is just a misdirection. It is a ruse. And 34,000000 claims 1000 payments. It is just not true. The claimants did not complain. Theres never been any mass complaint that they were underpaid. They were pleased to be paid. In more than half the cases they did not even know the names of the Insurance Companies. Icheic was able to match up over 16,000 names. The 1000 payments only came when there was no documentation. Is it correct that the Antidefamation League has withdrawn their objection to this legislation . Mr. Greenberg is here and they have authorized me to say they are not objecting to this legislation. That is news to us. They have signed on to the letter last year. Thank you mr. Chairman. What are the standards of proof that the commission and the Insurance Companies generally require in order to prove a claim . You mean in the icheic process . Correct. According to the little bit of data that exists, and we mostly have people that were denied. Herb wasots of people, a survivor of kristallnacht. That heer told him had insurance. He asked for that policy after the war and had been told it was paid out. His dads name was on the list. Him it had re paid his father the policy, and they could not give him information about his on synodicals unless he gave them the names and birth dates of his aunts and uncles. He was 12 years old. The German Embassy provided him with some information, including the socalled repayment repurchasing document. Kristallnacht, the date his father was taken to buchenwald. That was the kind of treatment the survivors got from icheic. Thank you. Office hasme of my process in it, we do not adjudicate claims. We act as a facilitator and advocate for claimants. We do not settle the claim ourselves. We act as a voice for claimants. We try to do as Much Research and documentation as possible. Genealogyem with research. Clarify that aspect of our office. Interject something about relaxed standards of proof, companies do not require that you provide policy information. They will take a letter from 1934 that says i remember when you bought this policy, and they will investigate within their own records for any evidence of the policy, and they will make payments on policies related they do not have specific details of the policy, just a record that a policy was purchased. I would be happy to submit Additional Information about what relaxed standards entail. I want to ask you about private right of action. In your viewetter to leave this to state law or a Single National standard . There should be a Single National right of access. The legislation we are proposing would provide the rule decision to the state law or the general federal common law, which is what they are using that the terror legislation. The plaintiff would have the option. They would have the right to use that. Because of the garamendi case, there has to be a federal statute to reopen the right of access to courts. Let me just ask you this mr. Mermelstein. Thank you for your advocacy. Is there anything else you feel that congress in this committee need to understand about the challenges Holocaust Survivors and their descendents face in receiving their due compensation . Have you feel that your rights stripped away . About takingeel away the rights . Very bad. Not only me, all the people ive dealt with. I dealt with most of them. Hurts them, and it still hurts us today. That my friend was a soldier in. Korea, and yet he came home and could not go to an American Court. Took away our rights to go to an American Court. Add one thing, the gentleman mentioned that germany gave a big increase. Hasnt to tell the senator something to do with that ileana i came to roslehtinen, she had to pass one thing, the resolution in congress that germany was not doing what they promised to do. She said, how about those senators . Are you going to talk to them . Yes, senator nelson and senator rubio. I talked to them. It was passed unanimous in both houses. We got the biggest increase from gotten then that we have in all these years. Thank you. We have just been informed that the Antidefamation League still opposes the legislation. We just got female. We will follow up on it. If so, that is different from what they have told mr. Greenberg. We will find out about all that. Tell me about the process or the companies are not required to disclose. What is your biggest problem . They only published the names they wanted to. It was a voluntary. What would you suggest . Validate the state laws that require the companies to publish the names. You said the burden was shifted in the claims process. For example with jenna leigh claims, jenna raleig policyi argued that any that was not in that database had been paid or lapsed. Basis accepted that as a for handling claims. Policy. S definitely a under state law, if there is proof of a policy, the burden is orthe insurer to prove lapse payment. Give me an example of the case where they said the the policy had been paid but it was the night of kristallnacht. He was on the ss st. Louis when they were sent back to europe. His parents were sent back to auschwitz and murdered. Knology there had been a policy. There was a token payment from germany, but it had nothing to do with the fact that he was insure. D. Then he applied to icheic. Icheic said your dad was paid, but they did not provide him with any documents. He had no documents. He had no basis to appeal because he had to take that at face value. We later got documents through becausean embassy survivors have been making a little trouble for people. The records in here, there is a socalled repayment document that says on november 9 1938 his dad cashed in the policy. He was taken into buchenwald that day. The odds that the family kept the money were zero. Thank you all very much. We will take this all under advisement and see what we can do. Thank you so much. [indistinct conversations] abc news reporting this morning on one of their own, longtime journalist Cokie Roberts has died from complications from breast cancer. Thewas inducted into broadcasting and cable hall of fame and was cited by the american women of Cable Television is one of the 50 greatest women in the history of broadcasting. Her family said in a statement, we will miss cokie. She died from convocations from breast cancer. Complications from breast cancer. For 40 years, cspan has been providing america unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, and Public Policy events from around the country. Cspan is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. Your unfiltered view of government. House meets today at noon for general speeches. Legislative work starts at 2 00. We will have live coverage on cspan. The senate has executive nominations on their agenda from the state and treasury department. President trumps former Campaign Manager Corey Lewandowski will be on capitol hill this afternoon. He is expected to appear before the house judiciary committee. Today ate coverage 1 00 p. M. Eastern. Table, jamie raskin, serves the eighth district and is the amount is a member of the judiciary committee. Let us start with this headline, the white house will let the former Campaign Manager testify before your committee, but two

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