Transcripts For CSPAN House Judiciary Subcommittee Hearing On Women In The Criminal Justice System 20240714

Hearing on women and the criminal Justice System in the criminal Justice System. Members questioned the witnesses on jails for female prisoners, highlighting several examples including solitary confinement, emotional distress, lack of resources when entering reentering society. This is about two and a half hours. The committee on crime, terrorism and Homeland Security will come to order. The chair istion, able to call recess at any time. For annize myself opening statement. I am very pleased this subcommittee is holding this hearing. After decades of policies that led to mass incarceration, we are finally at a point of examining the policies and the consequences. What has been missing from the discussion of criminal Justice Reform as the special and specific impact the tough own crime arrow has had on women and children. Todays hearing begins a discussion about women and the criminal Justice System. It is critical we understand how and why women become involved in the system, what happens to them when they are in one when they are incarcerated, and what happens when they are released. We need to what happens to families and especially children when women are incarcerated. We need to examine the special needs women have when they are incarcerated. What is different . What happens to their children when they are in the system and when they are released . Federal law can lead to termination of parental rights if the child of an incarcerated woman remains in foster care beyond 18 months. Some states have even shortened the timeline. If a woman receives a sentence of five years, why should she phase losing her children forever to adoption . Examine a pregnancy will incarcerated is the most obvious difference, specifically prisons and jails are not designed or equipped to deal with the issues of pregnant women in custody. I would like to recognize charlotte cook. Wave your hand please . While in prison, she complained she was pregnant. The medical staff insisted it was just because she was fat and stressedout. After much persistence, a blood test world she was pregnant. A blood test ruled she was pregnant. She had complications. Her son was born at four and a half pounds. 18 months later, he was diagnosed with severe autism. The health needs of women regardless of brain and see is different. All women should have access to appropriate medical care. It includes access to conic to gynecological care and not just during the childbearing years. What is to be done . Through this hearing, we will learn the common reasons why women enter the criminal Justice System. This testimony must inform our next steps on sentencing reform. [inaudible] we must also consider methods of reviewing extremely long sentences as the number of women serving life sentences is on the rise. One out of every 15 women in prison, at least 7000, a serving a life or virtual life sends while 80 of women in the criminal Justice System are mothers. These life sentences do not only affect the person incarcerated, they affect the children who lose a parent. The conversation must include a conversation about their children. The urban Institutes Research shows that staying in touch reflects positive outcomes for the children and their parents, which reduces recidivism. Communities must be a part of the conversation. Teachers and staff should prioritize knowledge and sensitivity about issues children of an incarcerated parent face. Schools should spearhead efforts to meet the needs of incarcerated loved ones. Support groups, extracurricular activities, providing opportunities to process experiences through poetry writing, art, and journaling. If we do this, we can perhaps reduce the statistic that 50 of children who have a parent incarcerated windup incarcerated later in life. Connections should be made with Community Programs and local Service Providers that serve families affected by incarceration for additional support. We cannot ignore the conditions of women in prison and the difficulties of their reentry back into communities after the release. I hope to explore how we can improve conditions of women incarcerated to ensure their most basic needs are met including the needs of incarcerated pregnant women. Any facility that incarcerates women must be held to minimal standards of care. Women will no longer be overlooked in the criminal justice conversation. We must have an overall approach to criminal Justice Reform that specifically considers women. I look forward to hearing the testimony of our panel of witnesses and the opportunity to discuss these issues. I now recognize the Ranking Member. Thanks to each of our witnesses for being here today to discuss the impact of the criminal Justice System on women and girls. It is crucial we take a step back understand the importance of the criminal Justice System in the first place. Law enforcement officers, men and women of all races and backgrounds put their lives on the line every day to put to protect our communities. They make these extraordinary sacrifices to ensure children are safe from exploitation by sex offenders. They do that to keep women and girls safe from Domestic Abusers. They make the sacrifices to defend the weak and the vulnerable among us. Importantly, they do it to uphold the rule of law. We should all agree on these fundamental principles. Our goal is to ensure lady justice is blind. And that bias has no place in , our criminal Justice System. As my good friend, the former chair of this subcommittee once said, we should strive for criminal Justice System that is not just respected by the american people, but is worthy of their respect. As a former prosecutor, i will was to be jealous advocat a zealous advocate for the truth. I encountered crimes that were shocking to my conscious. In those cases, enhanced sentences and mandatory minimums were fair, and they were just. Crimes committed against children, the most vulnerable members of our society, should stick with us. They should haunt us. They should spur us to take action. Much of the debate in congress has been about criminal Justice Reforms and the impact of mandatory minimums and how to reduce recidivism. We should be vigilant in determining the causes of increasing female incarceration rate in this country. We should be open to addressing in a bipartisan fashion, the unique needs of women and girls in our criminal Justice System. As congress has debated criminal Justice Reform, many states have acted as laboratories of democracy, crating innovative ways to handle their unique challenges in providing congress with a view of what works and what does not work. We can, and we should learn from that. Let us not forget that some socalled nonviolent offenses there are victims too numerous to mention and unfortunately too easy for us to ignore. Drug traffickers that profit off of the importation of drugs like heroin and fentanyl leave a trail of destruction in their wake. The race or gender of drug traffickers does not matter. What matters is they are is that their victims come from all backgrounds. I yield back. Its it has my pleasure to recognize the chairman of the full committee, mr. Nadler. I think the crime subcommittee cochair from this onia for holding the issue of women and girls. Consideration of the unique experiences of women and girls in the system and our responsibility to develop creative ways to discuss those issues. It is particularly urgent that are the because women fastestgrowing segment of our incarcerated population. Efforts to reform the criminal Justice System are at least partly responsible for reducing the rate of incarceration overall. Unfortunately, incarceration is rising. We must consider whether the reforms instituted are properly designed to address the issues faced by women and girls in the criminal Justice System. These issues are numerous and diverse. One such injustice is the socalled girlfriend problem, where a woman in a relationship is held responsible through conspiracy problems for the entirety of a criminal scheme orchestrated by her partner. Woman mayses, the receive a harsher sentence than her partner who had the real role, because the more culpable partners able to cut a deal. The less culpable partner does not have much if any useful information to divulge and thus lacks the leverage to obtain a plea agreement. Addressing this unfair situation is important, because the war on drugs appears to be a large driver of the incarceration rates of women, as illustrated by the fact that the proportion of women in prison for a drug offense has increased. Ofther problem is the impact pretrial custody on women. Over 60 of women who are incarcerated have not been convicted of a crime, yet they are held in pretrial custody. This is particularly disturbing, because many of these women are the only providers for their children. A recent survey revealed more than 150,000 children had a parent in jail because the parent could not afford fail. Not because the parent presented a risk to the community or a risk of not appearing at trial. That means children are impacted by pretrial detention in startling numbers. This is most often caused by pretrial incarceration to sole provider mothers. We must take steps to address this crisis. Focus on the unique inequities that women face while incarcerated. As a result of subcommittee chairs or ship, Congress Passed reforms that banned shackling during pregnancy and required Feminine Hygiene Products in prison. These gained bipartisan support, incurring including our current Ranking Member. I hope this will be a bipartisan priority. Planss committee develops to reform our criminal Justice System, it is clear that our efforts must be formed by the unique issues faced by women in that system. I think the chair for holding this hearing and look forward to hearing from our witnesses. I yield back the balance of my time. It is now my pleasure to introduce todays panel. Deputy director of the Washington Office of the. Merican Civil Liberties union she covers criminal justice issues including sentencing, drug policy and capital punishment. She previously served as some counsel with the committee of the historic fair sentencing act which lowered the disparity between crack and powder cocaine. Miss cindy shank is a mother of three children turned advocate for criminal Justice Reform following her time in prison. Her 15 year sentence under drug conspiracy laws was commuted by president obama after she served eight years in prison. She was featured in the hbo documentary, the sentence. Piper carmen, author of orange is the new black, which is about the 13 months she served at the federal Correction Institution in danbury, connecticut. She is an advocate who teaches writing classes at two state prisons in ohio. Is the legal director for Prison Policy Initiative and has played a central role in building Prison Policy Initiative campaigns against prison gerrymandering and lead the organizations work on its second major issue, sentencing enhancement zones. Policytrice, a Senior Analyst at independent womens forum. We welcome our witnesses and thank them for participating. Please note that your written statement will be entered into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, i ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. To help you stay within that time, there is a timing light on your table. When it switches the yellow, you will have one minute to conclude. When the light turns red, youre five minutes have expired. Before proceeding, i remind each witness that all of your written and oral statements made to the subcommittee are subject to penalties of perjury. Thank you, chairwoman. The american Civil Liberties union would like to thank you andy Ranking Member for the opportunity to testify at todays hearing. Prison is a womens issue. Lost in the sobering to cystics on this prison on this countries prison population is the degree to which women are ensnared in the system. The the past 30 years, number of incarcerated women has grown exponentially. Women are the fastestgrowing segment of the prison population, increasing by 700 from 1980 2017. A rate twice that of men. Today, more than 200,000 women are incarcerated in prisons across this country. The majority of women in prison are incarcerated for lowlevel offenses, most often property and drug related crimes. Even as the rate of incarceration has risen dramatically, the percentage of women sentence for crime involving violence has fallen. Much of the growth in the womens prison population can be attributed to the war on drugs. To 1999, the number of women in state facilities for drug offenses grew by 888 . Are and property offenses often fueled by conditions of poverty, addiction and Mental Health issues. Which is experienced by many women cycling through the criminal Justice System. In addition to poverty, what often lands women in risen is a history of physical and sexual abuse, hiv and Substance Abuse. When they participate in more serious crimes, women are minor accomplices. When women commit homicide, they often do so printed to protect themselves from men who abuse them. Women of color are disproportionately represented. In 2014, black women were more than twice and the tina women 20 more likely than white women to be incarcerated. Although the Racial Disparity has narrowed, the legacy of the disparity remains. Girls are more likely than boys to be in the juvenile facilities, due to low level status offenses or technical violations and are less likely to be detained for violent offenses. Up 7 of the federal prison population. Toost 13,000 women, compared 1980, when there are 13,000 women in state and federal prisons combined. 70 of the women sentenced in 2017 in the federal system were convicted of drug trafficking, fraud, or immigration offenses. 60 of femalear, sentences had little or no prior criminal history. Women frequently end up in federal prison due to federal drug conspiracy laws. Too often, federal drug conspiracy laws punish those who unwittingly and unknowingly find themselves caught in the net of drug activity, even in a peripheral role. Women who are minimally involved in drug dealing but who have partners or family members involved in the drug trade can be required to serve long sentences as a result of conspiracy. Some of these relationships are abusive or coercive and leave women with few options. Women of color often find themselves subjected to prosecution based on their relationship and associations rather than their own conduct. Adding to the burden of women behind bars is the majority of women in prison are mothers. Since 1991, the number of children with a mother in prison has grown 131 . The majority of these are custodial parents and primary financial providers. Mothers behind bars are five times more likely than men to report that their women are in foster care by the state. The existence of parental relationships can be endangered when a parent is incarcerated. Incarcerated parents who have not abused or neglected their children are former likely to lose their parental rights permit leave and a nonincarcerated parent who has assaulted their child. Women are the fastestgrowing incarcerated population in the u. S. , leaving far too many children and families without a mother, despite the fact that she is often the primary caregiver. Until we recognize the unique circumstances associated with women who come in contact with the criminal legal system, we will never truly address this nations incarceration problem. My name is cynthia shank and in 2008, i was convicted on drug conspiracy charges from a crime that happened when i was 24 years old. 1997 and in the course of our relationship, he grew into a drug dealer. During my relationship with him, he was abusive to me, kept me from my family and friends to the extent that there were locks on the doors and bars on the windows. The last year i was with him, i was not allowed to leave the house. Over the course of him being a drug dealer, his paranoia took over to the point where i had no control over anything. He was murdered in 2002, and i was charged with conspiracy to his drug operation. Dropped and ire moved on with my life. I started focusing on bettering myself. I met a wonderful man, we got married, had two daughters, and i was pregnant with my third daughter when i was indicted 5. 5 years later on those crimes committed six years prior. 2008n went to prison in when my daughter was six weeks old. Autumn was four years old and abel was two years old. Needless to say, prison destroyed my small, young family. Prison is set up to separate and destroy bonds and as a mother, you need to be there for your children. Illinoistially sent to , getting regular visits and able to see the girls every 68 weeks. , so now i to florida saw my daughters once a year and they were so young. During my time in florida, my husband filed for divorce, which i understood, because he was serving the sentence with me and i wanted him to have a chance at a life. Sorry. Spent 8. 5 years in federal prison before i was given clemency by president obama. During my time in federal prison, i met many women just like me who were serving long sentences for crimes related to their husbands or boyfriends that they had little knowledge of. I had to witness and hear the cries of women who had signed over custody of their children because they could no longer be there for them and they were taken away from them. To hear mothers cry at night over and over, different mothers every night for something to have your child taken away and signed away is something i will never forget. Or coming back from a visit and having a mother cry in my arms because her daughter said, the person im staying with has been touching me. These are the realities that, when mothers leave, their children are put in places where they are not protected. Nobody is going to care for your child as a mother does. When a mother is taken away, the children suffer. When i went away, i was able to put my daughters in play therapy. My daughter continues to be in therapy now. What the cost of this incarceration is going to mean for my children, but i do know that we will not see the ramifications of this sentence that has impacted their lives for years to come. It will impact the choices they make every day with the men they choose today, they pass the paths they choose to take. Longlasting, not just for me but for my children. Are of the women i met deserving of a Second Chance. They deserve a Second Chance to be able to have their own Success Story and it is in your own hands to make these decisions and i encourage you to please allow them a Second Chance. Thank you. Ranking member radcliffe and members of the committee, i appreciate you inviting me here today. In my memoir, i recount the 13 months i spent incarcerated in federal prison with most of my time served at a federal Correction Institution in connecticut. I was incarcerated for a firsttime drug offense. I am grateful to add my voice with other returning citizens cindy and charlotte who are here to call for changes to the u. S. Criminal Justice System. Our experiences are essential to understanding the reform needed in the system so that i will provide for Public Safety, but in a way that is legal, humane and sensible. Incarceration rates are not driven by crime rates. They are driven by policy decisions. For decades, women and girls have been the Fastest Growing part of the prison population in the united states. Is this because of an unprecedented crime wave perpetrated by women . No. Increase in700 female incarceration has been driven by government policy. Bad policy decisions, like the 1994 federal crime bill, which inflated incarceration rates at the federal and state levels. One of the most clearcut examples of the failed policies of mass incarceration is the increased imprisonment of women and girls and what happens to them and their families. There is very little Public Safety rationale for most womens prison sentences, which impose a heavy cost to the american public, both socially and economically. Almost all women in prison and jail it is estimated between 80 and 90 have themselves been victims of violence or serious trauma prior to their incarceration. Because our Law Enforcement system does not target or treat all americans equally, the data shows that women of color are overrepresented in the criminal Justice System, even though they are not more likely than white men to commit crimes. One of the reasons my memoir caught the public imagination is it is unusual for a middleclass white woman to be policed, to be prosecuted and punished with prison. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for women of color. American prisons and jails are built by and for men and governed for policies and procedures developed for male prisoners. American prisons and jails are punitive and rarely rehabilitate or restore the people be sent there, almost all of whom will return to the community. I was incarcerated in a womens work in ad i now medium security prison and i can assure you there is no institution more hierarchical, dominance oriented, patriarchal and operating on the threat and promise of violence than an american prison. This is not an accident. It is by design. The failure of punitive policy is reflected in our hirers it is recidivismhigh rates. Sentence does not only punish them. Most mothers in prison have kids under the age of 18. Most incarcerated mothers are single heads of household and the effect on their families is seismic. On all measures, from stable housing, to doing well in school, parental incarceration seriously harms children. We dont have to do things this way. I want to draw your attention to two policies that could help to fix some of the mistakes of the last four decades. One is a program in new york called justice home. Justice home began in 2013 and as part of the program, in cooperation with judges and prosecutors, women facing prison or jail for a felony are given a chance to remain at home with their families, to be held accountable in the community and get the help and support they need to do better. That is exactly what happens. 80 of justice home graduates remain arrest free after they complete the program and justice home realizes massive fiscal savings. The total cost to taxpayers to incarcerate a woman in york if she has two women who go into foster care is over 130,000 per year. A cost less than 20,000 per year to support a woman to a Better Future through justice home and it better results. Looking to the states for innovation, we see two new primary caretaker legislations in massachusetts and tennessee and these measures require judges in those states to consider Family Impacts when their sentencing a person who is a primary caregiver of minor children and to impose Accountability Measures that are appropriate for the offense that will not harm the children. It is worth pointing out that massachusetts and tennessee have very different political landscapes, but everybody can see the value of this reform, regardless of political party. Policiesaretaker should be adopted in the federal system so that federal judges are required to make the same considerations. I look forward to todays important testimony. Pathways into prison in the steps for a return to the community, but i implore all Public Officials to prioritize policy changes that will reduce the number of women and girls ever going into a correctional facility. Thank you. Thank you, chairwoman bess and ricky member Ranking Member is your microphone on . Thank you for providing me the opportunity to share data on womens incarceration. Not only because this issue has been overlooked for far too long, but because womens experiences in the criminal Justice System highlight the faults of the entire system. The u. S. Incarcerates women at the highest rate in the world. There is a lot of data, but as i outlined the basics, keep one fact in mind. One in four women who are incarcerated have not been convicted. Demonstrateslone that we use incarceration far too much. Since the 1970s, womens estate prison populations have grown faster than their male counterparts. There are nearly 10 times as many women in state prisons now is 40 years ago and despite this growth, womens incarceration remains an afterthought. In most states, women have not benefited from recent efforts to reduce incarceration as much as men have. There are many complex reasons why the u. S. Is incarcerating women at increasing rates. Here are a couple of examples. States continue to widen the net of criminal justice involvement by criminalizing womens responses to abuse and just commit nation. We have heard about the expansion of drug conspiracy laws that lead to minor or peripheral roles of women receiving harsh sentences, even more harsh stand those in charge of the operation, but in terms of gender abuse, you have policy changes that led to mandatory dual arrests simply for fighting back against the mystic violence. Once caught in the net, there are fewer programs available to women. In wyoming, there was a boot camp that allowed men to participate in a sixmonth program instead of having to serve a lengthy sentence, but no program is available for women. They face years of incarceration for first time offenses while male counterparts can quickly return to the community and once women are incarcerated, they face harsher this a plenary sanctions for similar behavior and disciplinary action harms womens ability to earn time off a sentence and decreases the chance of parole. Mass incarceration has a long reach. Women in jail and prison account for only a small percentage of women under correctional control. Probation is often billed as an alternative to incarceration but compliance with restrictive probation terms is particularly difficult for women. It often sets us up to fail. Probation comes of mandatory monthly fees, which women are in the worst position to afford and failing to pay fees is often a violation of probation. Childcare duties further complicate compliance, because probation often requires travel to mandatory meetings or having to get advance permission for an Emergency School pickup or doctors visit. Ongoing struggles with Mental Health and Substance Abuse, which affect women in jail more than men, require additional support, rather than being viewed as rather than being punished as a failure of probation. Even as incarceration rates drop, womens incarceration continues to grow. Getting hard data is the obvious next step. You would think that knowing how many women are locked up and where and why would be easy. After all, this is a population that is counted multiple times a day. There is an astounding lack of data. I set out to give a complete picture on mens incarceration in my report and i had to weave together data scattered across incompatible government reports and surveys. The last time the bureau of justice statistics published a comprehensive report on incarcerated women was 1999, 20 years ago. Since then, data on incarcerated women has been available scattered throughout publications, but the bj us has stoppedelect collecting some information. Having accurate and timely data is in important part of ending mass incarceration but there is such a vast room for improvement in so many areas that we can wait for Data Collection to catch up while we take common sense action today. Thank you. Morning. Rankingu chairman bass, number redcliff. I work with the independent womens forum. We are in Educational Organization committed to increasing the number of women who value free markets and personal liberty. We enhance peoples choice and opportunities, so my work focuses on expanding opportunity for women. This subject is really important to us. This is truly a great time of opportunity for women. We have record low unemployment rates. Firms owned by women of color have triple digit growth. Criminal background locks too many women out of opportunity. Critical component for transition back into society. Historicuraged by the bipartisan act signed into law last year. That laid the foundation that we know theres more to do for women. The conversations remind us that the left and right are committed to helping every american can achieve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Organizations across the spectrum are engaged in the criminal justice efforts and for different reasons. Committing a crime and paying her debt to society shouldnt preclude a woman from the pursuit of a Better Future. Its not just her future but the future of her children, her family, her community that depend on the Successful Transition back into society it. We saw the replacement of judicial discretion with sentencing mandates. Particularly because there are alternatives to serving time. That impacted women and their families. More women are likely to have served as a primary caregiver and have plans to return upon release. Children his parents are involved in the Justice System faced challenges and difficulties. Incarceration forces families deeper into debt. Bond often becomes a motivating factor for women not to return to crime. Effective criminal justice requires respect for the dignity of people and means toward habilitation. Women face challenges. Wellnessral health and ongoing care if they are pregnant. Serving a sentence should not mean female inmates should serve in dehumanizing conditions. Level of privacy from male guards is reasonable and can protect female prisoners. Mostant women are the vulnerable. TheJustice System considers needs of this population. The shackling of women has been ended by law. This is especially close to my heart. When it is time to return from prison is not the moment to begin thinking about what she will do afterward. About oneivism quarter of women released from prison are arrested within six months. Training, technical education, including those tied to the Faith Community can be assets. There is evidence these programs work. The First Step Act offers incentives to inmates to participate in recidivism reduction and a Strong Economy is an ally in providing women opportunities. Where government puts up roadblocks, government needs to remove them. We have seen that occupational licenses have been a tremendous hindrance to women. That is a place we can start. Is an area where we all believe that smart reforms can help women who want to be productive members of society. I want to thank all of the witnesses for your testimony today. We will proceed under the five minute rule with questions. I will recognize myself for five minutes. I did not understand why you were indicted. You were indicted, it sounded like years after your partner, who abused you, passed away. Could you go through the sequence again, and explain why you were indicted . It tends to be confusing. The person i was dating was murdered in 2002. I was initially charged with conspiracy in 2002 and received a letter from my attorney three months after the charge stating that my case had been dismissed. Your conspiracy was . Drugrelated conspiracy. So you conspired to sell the drugs even though you are locked in the house against the will . I lived in the home. Like i said, i moved on with my life and had gotten married, had children, then in 2007, they knocked on my door with an indictment and charged me with conspiracy. Not only did i get conspiracy, but i received for felonies. I was charged with possession with intent to distribute along with conspiracy charges based on the fact that i lived in the home. You were indicted five years after the jugular died in five years after you were originally arrested . But, after you were released, i wanted to know what happened with your children. Who took care of your children . Their father. After you got out, did you get custody of your children . Three weeks after i got out, i went with their dad and we have joint custody now. He is a wonderful man, a wonderful father. He never kept the children from me. He was helpful in keeping my relationship with them. Serve . Long did you and how old are the children . When you went in, they were how old . Four years old, six years old, and two years old. Are you able to stay in touch with them . Didnt you say for a while you are close to them, but then you were transferred . Yes, initially i was in illinois and i was able to see them my first three years about every six weeks so i was able to maintain some type of connection. The prison closed for women and i was transferred to florida. Did anybody take into consideration the fact that you would not be able to be in touch with your family . There was no consideration for anybody. That was the closest prison for all of the women so women end up in california, texas. That is set about women that are incarcerated different than men is that women dont receive visits. Women visit men in prison. , was that yourw experience . Is that what you saw in prison . Absolutely. Theyould get visits and would be very sparse visiting families. He would get grandmothers bringing kids, caregivers. How often did you see women whose children were in foster care . Often. I was there for nine years, so i spoke with many women that would lose their children. Parental rights should be terminated. What was your experience . Did you see women receive visits . The relationship between mothers and children is the single most important factor of incarceration of women. I was not mother when i was incarcerated. I am now. I thought about it all the time. I was serving time in connecticut and a resident of new york city, so for many people, it was easy to visit me. Since then, that facility has been repurposed and a huge percentage of women have been transferred far away from their families. Women mye bunkmate never received a visit the entire time. She had two children but there were certain families that were fortunate enough to be able to visit. Im going to run out of time, but i wonder if anybody could, and women they saw who became pregnant while they were incarcerated. There was a woman in florida who became pregnant by an officer while i was incarcerated and that is something that does not get talked about often enough, about the safety of women with officers who are there we had you are there. Thank you. You highlighted in your testimony the importance of dignity for women in prison and i agree with you, this certainly should not be a partisan issue. We should all be willing to address in a spirit of bipartisanship the needs of women and girls in the criminal Justice System. Wereof those issues addressed in the First Step Act, which President Trump signed into law late last year. You mentioned that there are still areas for more to be done at the federal level to provide dignity for women inmates. Can you elaborate on those additional areas for improvement , and im specifically interested if you know any states that have taken action in those areas and i would like to get the perspective of miss shank and ms. Carmen, given your experiences. Thank you. The comments of ms. Cynthia shank touches on one of those. The male prison guards. I had mentioned that it is reasonable for women to have some expectation of privacy, particularly when there undressing, showering. We know that female prisoners are vulnerable and a lot of them have experienced Sexual Violence in the past. When you have a situation where a male correctional officer enters a females cell and she is changing, she may say, may i have some privacy and a verbal altercation could ensue. This can be triggering for that it couldd bars and lead to a place that she doesnt want to go and you dont want to have her being. A couple of conservative organizations and progressive organizations that have come together to talk about why during incarceration it is reasonable that male guards should not be present when a woman is stripsearched. They should not be supervising women in showers. The idea of forest and inappropriate inspections, these things are counterproductive to rehabilitating a woman behind bars. It is an area there for understanding what happens when male guards are present, what are potential guidelines for guardrails that put in place. We understand there are places where it makes sense to have that happen. Another area that is concerning for pregnant woman, we talked about the shackling of women being ended, but the continued care for women who had a baby is important. Recent research has found that correctional facilities fail to provide physician recommended standards of care. Even after a woman has had a baby. Many women have had children and there is an emotional toll. When you are denied the knuckle care,even Mental Health those are areas where you need guidance from obstetricians and gynecologists on what care is needed and how federal prisons can provide it. Like louisiana, conservative states have been implementing some of these at the state level. Texas has implement at some changes. Happy to provide additional research. Thank you. Anything you want to add to that . The guard to female situation is something i dont speak about often, primarily because my children are usually in the room when i go to speak, but it is very prevalent. Safe changing. Guards know your routine. They know if they want to single you out, they will. It is very common for an officer to single somebody out. When you say guard to prisoner relationships, are these consensual or are you describing rape . Well, when you put into perspective someone who is in charge of you, they are consensual to the extent where you have inmates there, but they are also vulnerable. These arewomen who, their caregivers, they are authorities. While they are consensual relationships, to me, there is a level of not being consensual. They wheeled power. I never had a relationship with the officer but i can tell you that officers would know where i would shower and walk by my room, enter my room when i was getting dressed frequently. It happened at every prison i was out. I was at. You could talk to any of those women and they would tell you it is common to know this officer was in a relationship with that inmate. It happened all the time. Thank you. Your time in custody, you observed other women who were pregnant. They gave birth while incarcerated. Can you describe what you observed . I will never forget the first day in prison, one of the things , i wasber so clearly being escorted up to the unit where i lived. There were a group of women standing outside the building and there was a woman who was very visibly pregnant. She was eight months pregnant. Confusedr being so when i saw her. I was literally like, this must be a mistake. It never occurred to me that they would be pregnant women in prison. I am still deeply confused by that. Thattroubled by the fact so many women enter prison and have gone through an entire that ourprocess and choice as a society is to force them to go through pregnancy and childbirth while under custody in a setting that is not appropriate for pregnant people. That particular young woman that i saw went into labor shortly after, just a few weeks later. She was the first person i have ever seen in labor. She labored for about 12 hours in the prison. Occasionally checked on by staff but largely assisted by the other women. In a Hospital Unit . After about 12 hours, they took her to the local hospital, which is where she gave birth and she was immediately returned in recovery from having given birth but also incredibly drawn, sad, devastated because she had been separated from her infant and all of the biology that we know tells us that babies and mothers need to be together for months, for years really. But certainly, that young lady who was serving an 18 month sentence for a lowlevel drug offense could have stayed in the community could have in the community to give birth. She was lucky that her family was able to take the family take the baby and they were occasionally able to make the 8 hour drive for her to see the baby. It was also lucky that she was going home soon. It is the most important thing from my point of view that we think about pregnancy, reproductive rights and motherhood. Let me ask that the video clip from orange is the new black which is a heartwrenching moment let me explain this depicts the return of a prisoner immediate after giving birth. [video clip] [shouting] i got him. How long after birth what she returned to the prison . The next day. She had an uncomplemented on complicated birth so as soon as she could be medic discharge, she was brought to prison. Let me ask in the few seconds i have left, i believe mandatory minimum sentencing laws are unjust for individuals and harmful to our society. When you tell us something about sentencing reform and any particular of forms specific to women . That is a big question. Sentencing s to the alternatives to sentencing . Alternatives to mandatory sentencing. We need to give discretion back to judges to do their job. If we take away mandatory minimum sentencing, it allows them to sentence people on an individual basis. I think we would not have such an overload of people in prison saying this is the category you fall in, you go this way. It needs to be individual. You need to base everybodys circumstance is different. The judge needs to be allowed to make that decision. Thank you very much. In yourad mentioned testimony programs connected to the Faith Community. Could you expound upon that . T have been your expection what have been your interactions with faithbased groups . A critical aspect of rehabilitation for many people behind bars has been faith. The ability for those people to be connected to justice and restoration of a personal sense of faith and guiding belief. You have seen successful helpful. That have been just looking through my notes here. That have been very effective, the first that general,mind is in prisoners who participate in job training and Educational Program are more likely to avoid reincarceration. The present trip Ownership Program has been a tremendous example of a faithbased but also private organization providing prisoners with the skills they need, particularly around entrepreneurship. It is one of those areas where individuals who have a criminal record can start their own shop. 1820 new businesses were started each day in 2000 72018 because people were able to start those businesses. It is a really great example of a program that works in a state level and can be scaled nationally. When it comes to other faithbased programs that reduce recidivism, there are other programs out there. Prison fellowship is another great one. It was launched in texas. One of those places that has been a great launching pad. I will give you some statistics. According to a study by the texas policy council, 8 of participants returned to prison within two years compared to 20 who were eligible but elected not to purchase a pay. Those are two examples of good programs. Thank you. The next question i will ask any of the panel members. Most prisoners are going to get out someday, even those that homicideome form of are often going to get out. Havee federal level, we prison industries. I used to work with cincinnati as a county commissioner, programs that encouraged people to work. We had twoforone programs where for every day you were on a work crew, you got two days off your sentence. Relative to trying to get skilled when the person gets out that they could put into use, also making your time in prison perhaps i guess pass more quickly if that is possible, do you have any examples or programs you think may have work . Or where it doesnt one of the things that is rarely offered in the federal system is any kind of programs whatsoever. There is a lack of program we should be talking about. Each place i was at, there was one program that wouldve been like a computer program. I was able to do that. Cdl. Orida, i did get my have i driven a big rig since . No. It is more oriented toward men. There is a lack of programs and any program you do, there is a list you have to get on to be able to get into the class. Every a 15 year sentence, class i applied for, anybody who comes in after me, if they have a shorter sentence, they get ahead of me. Guess how many programs i was able to do . Hardly any, because i would be moved back down the list because somebody with two years would be able to do it. There is not enough programming in the system. Cindy is correct. The federal bureau of prisoners is especially egregious in terms of limited rehabilitative programming. She draws a good point that many of the programs available are completely designed for men. She points at a wonderful program, the pep program in texas. Unfortunately, that is only available in for men. There is in Amazing Program called inmates to entrepreneurs that operates in other places that does work with women, both incarcerated and women who have returned to the community. , at the ohio reformatory for women, there is a tremendous program called tapestry, which has been operative for 25 years, which is a Recovery Program for women with Substance Use disorder but it does have a faith based component. Ands remarkably successful operates a network of graduates. Thank you. We are going to need to move on. Thank you for holding this hearing and to the Ranking Member. It is clear that as we look at this set of facts that there is much work to do to build on what we have done in this committee. This testimony has given us the launching pad to be able to do so. Endope to introduce the racial profiling, which overlaps some of the reasons why women of ofor i know that the idea conspiracy on drugs is something man and thewith the woman on the conspiracy charge, we see that all the time. I look forward to looking at those issues. Was noty constituents was comingd, but from the jamaica west indies and was forced to put a blanket on to get on an airplane. We know that it permeates through lgbtq and others and we look forward to do that legislation. On thiso focus question. Africanamerican women have twice the rate of women. Of twice the rate of incarceration of white women. Some quick reasons why you see that happening . Important for this subcommittee to focus on the facts and through our testimony, we have talked about it but i just want to say it out loud that some of the major reasons why women are ending up incarcerated is because they are traumatized and they have experienced trauma. Whether it is physical, sexual as they arell caught in a cycle of poverty. Concerns,ddress those until we have real gender responsive programming that addresses the trauma that women have experienced and men, but today we are talking about women , we are spinning our wheels. Dies have said i just want to get that basic understanding of the reasons. I have legislation moving through congress and unfortunately it is stuck in the birth that deals with the of babies while incarcerated. Say,ave given me, as they the launch to add the children aspect, but has allowed the mother to keep the baby and in some instances, they are incarcerated and to keep the baby in a separate area and to nurture that child for six months. There are also options in the community. Low offenses. We want to look at that. I want you to comment on how powerful it would be if that scene with a woman coming back with her baby to a certain safe place, clean, orderly, baby nursery type where those mothers could stay while they were incarcerated. Because this is very real, i had to turn away. It means everything if a mother could stay with her child. That coming back to a nursery situation without your child is going to do any good. Thats what im saying. You come with the baby. You have to be able to be with the baby and that has to be able to happen. That is necessary not only for the mothers sanity and wellbeing, but for the child as well. I am an adult. I accepted the consequences of my sentencing, but my children where the innocent victims. That is who we have to focus on. Inn when i put my daughters play therapy, they had to go to grief counseling. May i add that with your testimony, we should look at that piece that helps mothers be together with children. Of how wenking actually do that. Frequent our resources are very limited. You have to be able to offer them something to bring them some form of happiness in connection with that child. It should be a part of the visits. It should be part of rehabilitation. Strengthening those family bonds. What keeps them together. Thank you so very much. Want to thank you madam chair. This has been an interesting committee so thank you for doing the hearing. Storyyou for sharing your. Nine years you got clemency and in your life back together. All of you thank you for sharing your stories. I have a question and im not sure who to ask, but in arizona, im in arizona and we worked on sentencing reform and i think this is a bipartisan issue both conservative groups and agreenservative groups, on this issue that there is a problem. This in we try to do prosecutors pushed back saying no, this is not firsttime drug offenders that are in the arizona at least. The prisons showed us the statistics of who was in the you had to it was basically be a drug dealer, not just a drug user, at least in arizona or it had to be a violent crime. Be theess, you might right person to answer, is this the case also in federal prison . Do you have first time drug offenders . Who is in the prison . Not only do you have a number of firsttime, particularly with women, firsttime drug offenders. As weve talked about, what often would women fall victim to is a conspiracy law and so you dont have to necessarily have dealt drugs, you have to conspiracyole in a and that role is very little. You could live with your partner, you can pick up your phone in your house and that is enough to implicate you in the conspiracy. You can take money to the bank that your partner gave you. You are not involved yourself what you have this peripheral role and that is enough to get you involved in the conspiracy. The problem on the federal level is the focus is not on your role , the focus is on the weight of the drugs. So if the conspiracy is large and the weight of the drugs is large, and you dont have information to trade to the prosecutor to cooperate, you cannot get your sentence reduced beyond the mandatory minimum and oftentimes women because they are not involved in the trade, the end up taking the entire , whichof the drug trade in some cases get them life without parole sentences. That is very interesting. The other thing brought up by one of the witnesses was about childcare. If you do get out and youre on probation you have to go to mandatory meetings. I know in our state of arizona we offer free or reduced childcare to low income working women. There is usually a waiting list because there is a certain amount of funds. Is this something i would assume would help in that situation. It would be difficult especially if youre a single parent. That is definitely a step in the right direction. But one of the other problems on probation is you are restricted to the hours you are allowed to leave the house for example. If you have to do an emergency pickup for your kids, you cant oftentimes reach your parole probation officer in time or the same thing for Emergency Hospital visits. You are torn between your caregiving duties and knowing that you are going to get sent back to prison if you take your kids to the emergency room. Thank you. Maybe i will follow up with all of you. One thing that we did in our state was we reformed our occupational licensing because i imagine if you had a criminal history it might be difficult to get a regular job and so i would assume a lot of women could be selfemployed and so what are your thoughts on that . Your state is a great example of state leading the charge in occupational licensing reform. In occupational license simply permission slip for the government to get into a vocation, anything from hair braiding to being a florist and there are lots of certifications and hurdles that can be costly, particularly low income. The time it takes to get those sort of vacations and a lot of them have nothing to do with any sort of health or actual trade itself, just a way to live in competition. Arizona is a great state. I would absolutely encourage other states to look at those industries where people are trying to get into those vocations. They can become a primary source of the very good income. But inow my time is up just want to share with the members that are in the arizona prisons. Its called Correctional Industries and we put women to work. You might be talking to a woman prisoner in arizona because they are actually contracted out, theyre doing Call Center Work for different companies. It is a good way for people to get trained and i support that. I would like to work with you and other members. I think there are pieces that they can work on a bipartisan basis. Thank you. Thank you so much madam chair and Ranking Member, for the comments. That so adequately set the stage. Thank you to each of you. I served as a lawenforcement but our purpose was never to create more victims. Its important we understand the individual circumstances and victim a date victimization and other characteristics that face who are incarcerated like being victims of Domestic Abuse,e, substance mental illness, being poor or low income, all of those are challenges that if we are going to improve how we do business, we have to factor those things in. 80 of the women incarcerated our parents. You are absolutely correct. I was a daddys girl, i love my father, but you cant even put into words what it means to be with your mother. That a special role woman plays, the mother plays in every household. Thank you so much for being here today and helping us. We havent even talked much about once you are released and coming back in to society and the challenges of that. I would like to start with you. I know you said, you talked about the separation from your husband but eventually you were able to remarry and all. Could you talk about once you released some of the challenges you face coming back into society. Divorced and we have a great relationship, we are coparenting our daughters and we are doing that together. , one of are released the challenges i faced was i did get a job 29 days out of prison. I just received my sixth promotion last week. That is determination and being a mother and a lot of catching up to do. One of the things that was really hard. My Halfway House was in kalamazoo which was an hour and a half away from my hometown. They would have me come three to four times a week between the hours of 8 00 and 3 00 which are forork hours to come in whatever they wanted me to come in for. Meetings,checking in, drops, whatever random thing and if i didnt, that was a violation of probation and that if i lose my job, which my job just hired me on and im a felon and they are looking at me. I couldve easily lost my job. Thats a violation of my probation. They made things very difficult. I pose the question and thankfully i had a vehicle. I asked the person at the Halfway House what what i do if i didnt have a car. She said you would just take the bus. Thats like four hours a day. Yes but you expect they expect you to follow these rules but they make things very difficult and that was very challenging for me early on, luckily im off of that home confinement and probation im still on probation for five years, but i dont have to do my check ins anymore. Thank you very much. Do you have anything to add and you talked about that this is about policy, incarceration of women is more about policy and not crime. That you elaborate on that a bit as well please . I woke up on the day of my release in a federal jail facility in chicago, not the prison facility. No one in the facility would confirm i was going to be released, but i was quite alert and i watched Martha Stewart get released from federal prison the same day on the news. Finally, hours later, a correctional officer said checkout. The first thing they said, we dont have any womens clothes, heres the smallest set of mens clothes we have. Heres a windbreaker, it was chicago in the winter. They said here is 28, this is a gratuity. They took me to an alleyway door and open up the alleyway door and were like c. See ya. I was very lucky because my fiance was waiting at the front door to take me home to new york which was 800 miles away. Mythat had not been true, entire life might have been almost surely would have been completely different because i had safe and stable housing, i was able to start work a week after my release from prison. I cant overstate how important that workpiece is. I was treated very differently by my federal supervising office, my probation office. Course was subject to drug testing and to check ins and so on and so forth but they did not treat me with a heavy hand like they did cindy and i think we have to look very hard at what drives disparity in the system, race, class, it is on acceptable and illegal. Me back to your question about policy and the fact that criminology, experts all over the country will tell you point out the fact it is policy decisions drive incarceration. Incarceration will rise in this country does not map to crime rate. We began to incarcerate people at a very high rate as crime rates were actually beginning to decline and crime rates continue to go up and up even as we now enjoy historically low crime rates, some of the lowest ever recorded. Thank you. My five minutes goes very quickly. Thank you so much. Represented klein. Thank you, i want to thank the witnesses were being here today and talk about the need for bail reform. Despite overall decreases incarceration, pretrial detention since 2000 is increased by 31 . Picking up two thirds of the overall jail population and over 60 of women who are incarcerated have not been convicted and are held in custody pretrial. Impact becauseue of two thirds of the women who could not meet bail conditions, two thirds were mothers of minor children. Time of the survey im quoting, 150,000 children had a parent in jail because they could not afford their bail bond. That means children are impacted by pretrial detention in startling numbers and this problem is most often caused by pretrial incarceration of sole provider mothers. We need to take steps to address this. As a former prosecutor when you are presented with a potential bond situation in court, you have certain factors at least in virginia to consider whether the person, the defendant is a flight risk, whether they are a risk to their community if severityor and the of the offense with which they have been charged is also something to consider. Also the issues about secure bond versus unsecure bond and then we in virginia have Pretrial Services which can be administered not in lieu of bond but often they are a great way process to avoid having to keep someone incarcerated. Let me ask anyone who would like to comment on that, what steps can we take to help address this problem . I think part of the reason some of these are very systemic. Some of the impact these and bail bonds and the economic sanctions of the criminal Justice System have on women are greater than men just because women dont tend to make as much money as men and that hits black and Hispanic Women even harder than white women. Getting rid of money based bond, i get that. Lets go a little deeper. Secure versus unsecure, pretrial versus bond, can you speak to those specifics as to whether one might be more advantageous than another when it comes to childrenthe impact on children in this situation . Im not sure about the way those distinctions would make a difference. Anybody else . I received bail and was able to pay my bail with the help of my family. That literally made all the difference in my life. We know the data shows that people who are able to afford bail get Better Outcomes in their cases. For a variety of reasons but including the fact that they are not desperate to plead guilty and take pleas that they should not take which of course 95 of all criminal defendants take a plea. Women whorve that work there on pretrial status were desperate, desperate about what was going on with their families, desperately uncertain about what was going to happen to their own lives. There was a woman who had been incarcerated for two years. So youd be an encouragement of home monitoring. Is that something that could enable . During my six years on pretrial i simply reported probation a new york city, my case was caught in chicago but i was supervising new york city. I spent nine years under correctional control total but only one incarcerated. So six years of pretrial. Went through several probation offer supervising. It was a pretty straightforward process. I turned up once a month, was tested for drugs, i reported all the things we require of probation basically. I was not a mother so i think that a mother is even less of a flight risk or we have a greater consideration as a society to make sure a mother is able to be in the community. Certainly the federal system is setup to do something other than rely on bail or pretrial incarceration in the outcome of its sentences. I must reflect on the fact you a former prosecutor and the response ability relies primarily in the prosecutorial function. Example of the best possible candidates for pretrial treatment that does not involve incarceration. I yield back. Thank you. Madam chair and thank you to each of you for being here today to share your expertise and personal experience. It is critical we hear from you. I represent georgias sixth Congressional District and in recent years georgia took on criminal Justice Reform and under the leadership of the governor, georgia has enacted bipartisan reform that are were recidivismreducing and saving georgia taxpayers billions of dollars. Unfortunately these reforms may not be doing enough to affect the outcomes for women. Women are now the Fastest Growing population in georgias Justice System. I know we have to do more to make sure women are more than an afterthought as we work to improve our criminal Justice System. Courtscurdy, specialized like drug courts and Mental Health courts have been a pillar of georgia posco criminal Justice Reform efforts and have helped to reduce the incarceration of nonviolent individuals. How can we work to ensure specialized courts are serving the needs of women . Specialized courts are definitely one answer to some of the problems in the system, but the thing i want to caution us about specialized courts is often times people are required before they get access to the Specialized Drug court or Mental Health court and particularly with drug courts when you are dealing with people who have Substance Abuse problems and because of their problems can follow the wagon and ultimately have already pled guilty, you have to really be careful about the way we use our drug courts so that we are not funneling people into the system or basically creating a system where they will ultimately fail. Because they cant adhere to the conditions. So my recommendation is that particularly for drug courts, that we not require people to plead guilty at the time they enter and that they are able to at least get the aspect. For ultimately a plea. Would you argue the percentages of women having to plead guilty has gone up within recent years . Yes. Thank you for that. Do you have anything to add to that . I would love to hear from you. Nothing to add. I would like to underline that the guilty plea aspects of diversion courts i think the effects of it cannot be understated. Then leaves somebody courtsto the mainstream with a guilty plea. Whether or not they were in fact guilty. A very highacing possibility, you are coerced into playing just to get out of jail and prison. On criminalomponent Justice Reform in georgia is the ability to Program Including drug and Mental Health treatments and programs that include peoples employment prospects along the release. What obstacles do women face in these programs . Im sure there are a lot of obstacles. Federalcularly in the system, one of the obstacles to participating is there is not enough programs. Programming,re is staff and women in prison dont even know about it. Particularly for example the Trauma Program called fit in the federal prison system. Actuallyfacility reports even offers the program. This is run trauma response programming. Not many people knew about it. Isre is another program that to help mothers stay with their children after while they are incarcerated. People of7 of the the people in the prison participated and many did not know about it and werent told about it. And there were plenty of Slots Available for women to participate. Thank you. Represented stu b. I hail from florida where i spent some time in the state legislature. We attempted to do an incredible amount of criminal Justice Reform before i left and they were still working on it while id been up here. One of the things we never focused on was the female side of Prison Reform and criminal Justice Reform. All the focus was what you guys were talking about, just in general mostly on the male side of the cave the equation. You being here bringing this issue to the forefront i would like to get your recommendations, in your testimony you talked you being e bringing this issue to the about women and wanting to have give them a Second Chance. What would that look like . After certain amount of Good Behavior do we bring them up for a probation type hearing . What in your mind is that Second Chance that we on the federal side can look at doing in circumstances like that. Now with the First Step Act, the initiative with the programming. That is important for allowing women, first lets get some programs in their and allow them to get the help they need. Effect, totting the give them help with time off or maybe just there is no parole or anything like that in the federal system. Relief, they just need relief of any thing we can do to help shorten their sentences, whether it be programming or a bill we passed. Recalibrate and what that means to sentencing. We need to allow women a chance to breathe give them a Second Chance. There are women who were serving 20, 30 year sentences. For me the prosecutor asked for 89 years for me. Lets get rid of these mandatory minimum sentences. That to me is very important. That was some of the things we worked on in florida was getting rid of some of the mandatory minimums. So you are talking about rehabilitation employment type programs in the prisons. Ms. Kerman, you talked about the program in new york. Is that something you would like to see at the federal level, some type of Similar Program and is that lacking, do we not have Something Like that . There is nothing remotely like it at the federal. That gives discretion to judges and prosecutors, they evaluate the case in front of them. They are felony cases. They may elect to allow the woman to stay in the community and go through Accountability Measures, but also get them some wraparound help. Some women need job education, some need Mental Health or access to Mental Health care. Every case is different. The results are fantastic and it ys, the taxpayers money saves the taxpayers money and save the family the trauma being torn apart by incarceration. I have to return to the question of trauma because we know it actually lies at the heart of most womens involvement in the criminal Justice System. 8 to 90 of women in the system have been the victims of sexual assault, other physical assault or really significant trauma prior to their incarceration. The overlapping incidences of Substance Use disorder and Mental Health problems are directly related. If people in the Community Get the trauma response that is necessary in a timely passion fashion. Something very different in the criminal Justice System and that experience with trauma, the history of being a victim of Domestic Abuse should have been considered in sentencing. You testified before the Senate Judiciary committee and the committee on Homeland Security on issues of Prison Reform in 2014 and 2015. So since that time, what progress has been made in prison a reform of federal level . Seen lots ofve innovations the state level. We have seen very little progress in the federal government other than the passage of the federal legislation recently. I must make the point both the federal bureau of prisons and in fact all correctional systems operate with limited oversight in many cases and limited accountability when in fact problems are found within correctional systems or individual prisons. No prison has ever been closed because it was badly run. My time is expired. I just wanted to say i would be happy to work on these issues and i certainly think the testimony is very impactful on the issues. To all theu witnesses being here, thanks. Thanks for being helpful and powerful testimony. Article entitled womens mass incorporate incarceration dramatically captures the state of women and girls in our criminal Justice System. Some statistics in there and some weve heard over 219,000 women and girls incarcerated in the u. S. A 700 increase in the 1980. The growth rate now outpaces men. Women are being held in jails or mothers. In january of this year, the american journal of Public Health released a study of pregnancy and prisons finding in 22 states, the study to total of of 1396 pregnant women held in prison. Accessibility for medical care is atrocious. This is a devastating impact on flag one i would just incident in my own district on the morning of april 10, there was an incident in pompano beach, florida and i would like to submit for the record a letter for the Broward County the Broward County center. Tammy jackson, a 34yearold woman, pregnant woman with a pleaded to jail officers she was experiencing contractions. Jail officials moved her to an empty cell and left her alone for nearly seven hours and finally after more than four hours, they spoke with a physician and the physician stated he would check on her when he arrived and they waited. Finally a deputy observed a deputy observed the woman squatting and screaming in pain and then i heard a baby crying as he approached the cell. He helped wrap the baby with a towel. The nurse describe the incident quote, a pregnant female had a spontaneous delivery. It shouldnt have happened like that. Its not how anybody should be treated. In america, its not an isolated occurrence. Another woman a most gave birth alone in a cell at the same facility. Fortunately jail officials transferred her in time to the hospital. I would just ask, i think i will ask to you first. What kind of data should prisons collecting . It funny they characterize it as a spontaneous birth on that nine months to notice. When they had nine months to notice. Know 45 45 women entergy 45 of women enter jails pregnant. Point of the attention medical should start at that point. Just as if women who are not in jail or prison, maybe the continuance medical attention that women prenatal attention women need on the outside as well. Till they get to the point where they are about to have birth to give them prenatal care. We need to stop putting pregnant women in jail. There are too many alternatives before the last option is put a pregnant woman in jail. I appreciate that and i agree just to put that in the record. That also points out there is no federal Agency Responsible for collecting incarceration data and also corrects precht collect pregnancy data. The pregnancy data should be collected by the bureau of justice statistics and the lack of pregnancy Data Collected on incarcerated women is an indication our system has not adapted to the increasing number of women and girls in the system. I am concerned finally the quality of medical care and staff treating for pregnant women can differ dramatically. Should a National Standard be developed on the care pregnant women receive while incarcerated . Absolutely. And again that National Standard should start with keeping women out of jail and prisons that are pregnant. Thank you all very much. Thank you for having this hearing. As i hear from the witnesses , there are number of things i take out of it. The amount abuse that can happen in prosecutorial discretion and that is a question for i think this policymaker. Its a prosecutor that made the decision to come back after five years and charge you with a crime. Too often people look at leverage to look out someone else or Collateral Damage towards some other fight and i think we need to make sure that we are holding our prosecutors accountable so that if you are rich and affluent, you get different treatment then if you are poor and uneducated. I think that is something we cannot we have to highlight. The other when i heard was programming in one of the things i find to be the climax of foolishness in our correctional system. Good moral character. Make to baroes it them from entering those professions once weve invested in the training and do you all agree that is counterproductive . Everybody saye yes. The other thing is the family connection. I wrote an article a long time about thewas talking father then but the father may be in jail but the family is doing the time. Certainly when a mother is in jail, the families doing the time. Rate peoplears within 500 driving miles of the home, but i think the conversation today gives real credence that maybe with women, that number needs to be reduced in half when you think of the importance and the difficulty and the fact women are less likely to be visited in jail. The other thing i heard was gender responsive correctional approaches guided by the Womens Center research and data and i think that is very important. Let me ask you a question. You talked about justice home. Did that also apply for Violent Crimes were just nonViolent Crimes . Think that was a discretion of the prosecutors and judges. Certainly the program, i served on the board of the Prison Association which was one of the Community Agencies that does ongoing work with participants and we would certainly take anybody regardless of their crime or conviction. That program does give the possibility of record expungement depending on what the crime is and depending on the persons completion of the program and the discretion of the judge and the prosecutor. Linea very artificial often when we make the distinction between crimes we characterizes violent and crimes that we characterizes nonviolent. Anyone who is intimate with Court Systems in the way charges are brought knows that those terms are not always im talking about crimes of violence, where there is a physical victim heard victim. Let me move on to something i dont think i heard and that is housing at the end of incarceration is one of the biggest factors in recidivism. Allso the question becomes of these artificial barriers to publichousing, to Education Assistance once youve been formally incarcerated, how do we tackle those barriers and the last part of that is seeing especially with crack cocaine if a child in Public Housing was convicted of having crack or drugs, than the mother gets evicted from Public Housing. Now with opioids we do not see prosecutors push to evict opioid parents. Just a note that we ought to treat them the save what same way. How important is housing in this whole equation . Safe and stable housing is not only important for womens return to the community, a lack of safe and stable housing is a determining factor in why many women end up in the system in the first place. Not having a safe place to live. Womens lack of safety has contribute in factor to their potential to commit crimes as well. Those manys policybased barriers to people gaining access to safe and stable housing, we should drop them. Those are not things we have to do, those are things we choose to do. To tear downose each and every barrier to full citizenship that people like me and cindy faced. We deserve our citizenship in bulk. Represented jeffries. Thank you representative jeffries. I want to thank all of our witnesses for your presence here today and compelling information you are providing. I think you said in your testimony that you believe that the years and miles of separation caused by incarceration are in part designed to break the bonds between families, is that right . That is absolutely correct. I feel that 1000 . We were limited to 300 minutes a month on phone calls which we have to pay for ourselves. Daughters, they are fighting over the phone. Imagine a child when they hear that beep, my kids would panic when they would hear that for the phone was going to hang up and then crying and saying dont hang up. Drop,r the phone just to it is devastating and it happened every single time. It is set up to keep you apart and they try and tell you you are here and we are going to we want you to strengthen your family ties and then offering things they dont offer anything. A movie 1000 miles away, i saw my daughters once a year. I had limited phone calls. They were too little to email or write letters. It was very hard and very challenging. And you were released from prison i believe in march of 2017 after serving nine years, is that right . Correct. Based on your experiences and i congratulate you on the success you had since your release. What do you think we as member of congress can think about in terms of how to both address the trauma that occurs based on the family separation and how it helps facilitate the family unit coming together after ones release . Thats a really good question because there is nothing in play. I guess it would stem from the time you are separated, during that time of incarceration. , during that time of incarceration. Whether it is some type of family day they would offered some of the prisons may be encouraging that more. Just the type of visits you have , even being able, the little i did have were very cold and the environment was very cold. It wasnt a very comforting environment. I think that plays a big part of it. When you come home, it is up to you ultimately but if there were some type of therapy or Family Therapy offered, i think that is very helpful. If you offered to people, i know for me i am in therapy, my children are in therapy. That many dont have the luxury of that. Maybe to offer that at a broader would be very helpful. Thank you. In your testimony i think you made the important observation that too many women are locked out of the economic recovery as a result of their criminal background and that obviously has consequences and implications for being able to put the family unit back together and to robustly pursue the American Dream after incarceration. Can you offer some thoughts as to the impact of incarceration and the way forward in terms of how we make sure we are really creating the ability for people to pay their debt to society, to follow the American Dream and succeed economically. Absolutely, thank you. I spent time looking at the amount of opportunity available in this economy and how because of that criminal record you are seeing people locked out. What is interesting is we are starting to see a chance shift now because of a tight job market because its harder to find people fill positions and we have 7. 1 million unfilled positions. They are started to look at people they would not have considered before and that includes people that have a criminal background and criminal record. Thats a great thing for women and for anybody coming out of a correctional facility. That doesnt mean everybodys going to do that. At the state level as weve seen, the Movement Towards its the idea employers do not ask if you have any sort of criminal background. Its a way of giving someone a chance based on the merits of their experience and background before writing them off because they have a criminal record. There are states with implement it and i think it is interesting, private companies who do it from two cocacola and other companies that have started to do it. I think thats the way of opening up opportunities for women, people of color, everyone with a criminal background. It should it can have an unintended consequence, particularly against people of color and against men of color but there is an opportunity there for voluntary private Sector Companies to say im going to wave someones applications based on their merit way someones weigh someones application based on their merit. Weve seen people talk about apprenticeships. Its an idea some people forgotten or written off just a blue collar. Trump administration released a new regulatory change that would expand apprenticeships to whitecollar opportunities which i think is an interesting place because there will be people who have a criminal record who dont go to for your college or dont have a bunch of abcs behind their name but still want to get agency. And thank you very much for your testimony. Thank the chairman chairwoman for doing this really important hearing. Extraordinary longstanding leadership. Thank you so much to our witnesses for really powerful testimony. I want to focus for a moment on this idea of Family Impact because i think one of the things people need to understand. One of my most haunting memories doing a school visit and seeing this boy clearly distracted and not paying attention in me asking if he was ok and him and is very quiet voice saying my mom went to jail last night and the notion he was expected to study and Pay Attention and behave. Understanding that in many ways children of incarcerated parents are victims as much as others and blameless in the conduct of adult parent. Im intrigued by this idea of both presentence and postsentence, whether or not we ought to require sentencing judges and judges making determinations with respect to consider the impact on family. Not just allowing but understanding the reality of this case where women are most often the primary caregiver and the special relations between a mother and her children. When we ought to do that in pretrial and in sentencing. Decisionimpact of the on not just the defendant, but family who are blameless in this, i whether whether you agree i wonder whether you agree that that make sense. It makes sense and i think that should be highly considered. It absently makes sense and massachusetts and tennessee have signed that requirement into law. Judges in those states will require to do just that and thats a requirement required to consider it. They signed that legislation i believe a week before. The nittygritty is the transformation of the prosecutorial function and of the bench in terms of how prosecutors and judges understand what is expected of them. I know you have to also implement training and good education on the court and prosecutors. The second thing is a larger discussion as the separation of family, is there any good policy you can think of that we shouldnt simply require the bureau of prisons to place the defendant in a facility closest to their home period. Obviously consistent with security needs but if there is a facility closest to your home, is that a presumption and then argue if they dont follow that they have to give some reason . Or even 250 miles is still a very Long Distance to expect anyone to travel. Why not have the presumption be you closest to your family. Inif you are a poor family the bronze, connecticut might as well be mars. Do you agree that make sense . I agree that make sense. Local supervision can get complicated and there is little oversight. The final thing i want to ask about, in the state of rhode island with a very robust defendants before they are returned to the Community Meet with a Reentry Council that has housing experts in health care experts. To be sure this and in place comprehensive plan for their successful reentry and its an extraordinary result weve seen so much evidence about people released without the court system who dont have a place to live or get involved in drugs again. Im wondering youth with your experience if you had a similar experience of wellplanned release so youd be successful and if not, using a model like that makes sense. Absolutely a model like that makes sense. There is no programming or reentry, there is very limited. You dont even have access to fill out for your drivers license. There is no Information Available to you in the federal system. They do not prepare you whatsoever. They do not. You are released upon when they release you. Thank you so much. Representative dean. Im pleased to be here and i thank you all for your important testimony on all of these issues. I wanted to try and zero in on a couple of things. In my background before i came to congress i was a state representative in pennsylvania on the Judiciary Committee there constantly fighting new mandatory minimums so i appreciate very much the way you spoke about, the discretion should be with the judge. Some of the sentences might be that along under the discretion of the judge based on the fact and law in front of her or him. But if we could maybe i will start with misses mccarty, im also interested in the notion of addiction Substance Abuse disorder and its impact on this. In montgomery county, may of emmayear, a woman named was convicted and sentenced to 21 years in prison as a result of distributing heroin, sharing heroin in a kfc bathroom with her friend who was 20 years old that day and died. Dont get me wrong this is an extraordinarily serious case with victims all around. Sentenced to 21 years as a result of mandatory minimums for leaving the scene, allowing the woman to overdose and die. Also enhanced because with those within 1000 feet of a school. Could you speak to the notion of addiction Substance Abuse heroin andaddicts, how that translates into incarceration . Propertys part of both and drug crime that you see women being incarcerated for. With women, a lot of times its because of their addiction. They are not getting treatment necessarily once they go to jail. In a lot of times they are selfmedicating because of the trauma they have experienced before coming into contact with the criminal Justice System. So then it just becomes a cycle. If we dont treat the trauma, you dont treat the Substance Abuse that is respond to the trauma, that is the selfmedication from the trauma, then we will keep going around and around in circles. I also had the chance as state representative to visit muncie prison in pennsylvania, and all womens prison. Between addiction and Mental Health disorders and the connection between conspiracy and life sentences is extraordinarily powerful. Can we talk about the issue and maybe you both can tell me your experience with other women in prison, whether they suffered life sentences, what we could be doing better in terms of life sentences, particularly with women. I think initially to sentencing someone to life is wrong. I think we need to allow a person. I understand punishment and crime but i think it should fit the crime. We should just wash our hands of people. We need to allow somebody to say lets punish them for their crime and then lets help them to not let this happen again. Is it psychological, Mental Health, is a drugs, addiction. We need to not just lock people up. We need to bury them alive, we need to actually help them. So many women there described they just dont want to die there. They dont want this to be the end of their story. Its interesting you used the term wash your hands of people. I was in the prison with pope francis in philadelphia where he used the gospel about washing the feet of your visitor. Because we all go down that road. May be determined you could speak to that issue. Saying this is not the whole story and know that we are all broken people like you. I think about my students in ohio. I have lifers in the mens and wins facility men and womens facility. I have a young woman in my womens writing class when she was sentenced to 16 years old. We know that the decades between 15 and 25 is the decade where brain develop it is not complete. Impulsivity, judgment, bad decisions are rife. We all make bad decisions during that time in our lives and not all of us are held accountable in the same way. I have three students who were sentenced as children to adult life sentences and each all three of them are remarkably intelligent, thoughtful, humane people now and very different people now than when they committed their crimes. I believe passionately that everyone deserves a Second Chance and sometimes a third chance. It deserves to be measured not only for their worst act but also for their best act in the best thing or they are capable of it does not mean victims do not deserve a central role in seen inbut what we have places like california and other places in this country is victims are increasingly advocating for reforms that other parts of the community are calling for. Our governor, Governor Wolf granting clemency and commuting sentences of some lifers, its very important to do that. Chairwoman. , such an important hearing, the issue of women stuck in an unjust criminal Justice System is becoming a greater issue in this country and it is rarely part of the conversation. And other women who may be present today for lifting up your voices and encouraging and sharing your stories. Its the only way we will bring attention to the issue so thank you for being here today. Arefact is most women charged with lower level offenses and have less extensive criminal histories than their male counterparts. In 2017, women of our laws. Offenderseral women are hispanic and 20 are black. Of 85 e women, upwards have a history of sexual or Domestic Abuse and 60 of women in prison have children 18 years or younger. To start with miss mccurdy. In the past 40 years we have seen that the state prison population of women has grown by 834 . Why do you think we have had such a drastic increase of women who are now in the prison system . The war on drugs is one of the major reasons. Both in the federal and state system, we have focused so much attention, for example in the federal system, 45 of the people in bureau of prisons custodys are there for drug offenses. Almost half of the people are there for drug offenses. But what you are seeing is a result of the focus on the war on drugs. Why so many women and men are in prison, even though many really need treatment, and dont need incarceration. Our money would be better spent if we really focused on treating their Substance Abuse, because a lot of it is Substance Abuse, whether they were charged with trafficking or possession, versus spending on the federal level 36,000 dollars a year per person to incarcerate people. Piper talked about 20,000 a year for drug treatment, probably less than that. The Economic Cost is huge, but the human cost lasts generations. In 2016, the imprisonment rate of africanamerican women was twice the rate of imprisonment for white women, and Hispanic Women were imprisoned 1. 4 times more than white women. Why are women of color more likely to be imprisoned at twice the rate than white women . What solutions do you see . We have to develop alternatives to incarceration. Terms ofo also, in women that are in prison, be very responsive to their health needs, their mental, physical health needs, gynecological needs. Traino have to corrections staff, for example, when women end up in prison, to make sure they are being gender responsive to womens needs. As piper said earlier, prison systems were built on the fact that mostly men would be in them. A lot of the policies reflect that, and have not caught up to the fact we have so many women that are in those prison systems. So policies have to be responsive to gender needs. Those are some of the major things we need to focus on. On theed about shackling federal level. That has been addressed, but we havent talked about solitary confinement. Pregnant women are often held in solitary confinement while they are pregnant, and postpartum. Thatve to ban policies allow women that are pregnant to be held in solitary confinement. That is very dangerous. Representative thank you. As a mother, it has been tough to hear your testimony this morning. This tough enough to see administration following family separation policies, and they are doing the same in the criminal Justice System. And it is just heartbreaking. For missa question kerman. You testified that crimes drive incarceration, can you explain . Attention toawing Racial Disparities in the system , as a reflection of policy. I live in ohio. You might have two young men committing the exact same offense, but by policy and procedure, one of those young men might be heavily policed if he lives in a poor neighborhood, and one of those young men night might not be policed at all, if he lives in a Fraternity House at osu. Those disparities are policy choices and those things drive disparity and drive some of those problems. We have talked a lot about Substance Use disorder and its factor in driving incarceration and the availability or lack of treatment. Attention tow our this policy of mandatory minimum sentencing area if harsh punishment related to drug offenses worked, then we would not be where we are with addiction and drug abuse in this country. Ohio has one of the highest overdose rates in the country. We incarcerate a huge number of lowlevel drug offenders. It does not result in less addiction and less Substance Use. There is a certain point in time, decades and, where we have to say, regardless of what our punitive instincts are, that the policies and approach we have used is not working in terms of the Public Health and safety concerns which concern us the most. Ofthat is a good example policy driving incarceration, even as it fails to solve the problems we want solved. Cohen one policy we have, state and federal both, is we have private prisons. I would like to know your opinions on that as a factor in driving prison population, and if there are studies to show jurisdictions without private prisons and with private prisons at the rate of incarceration and the link to census. Who wants to jump in . Definitelyprisons help keep mass incarceration in play in this country, because they provide space to hold oftentimesthey take the easiest cases, and charge the government the most to take care of people, and do a really poor job of people do a really poor job of it because they have absolutely no oversight. Aspects stretch far past prisons, and this is important to womens incarceration, because about half of women are actually incarcerated in jails rather than prisons. A lot of private contractors that made it difficult that make it about familylking separations, in jails, even though you are extensively closer to home, oftentimes it is harder to keep in touch because phone call rates are much higher. At some county jails in michigan, it is 1. 50 a minute to talk on the phone. Jails are more likely to have a literally banning letters from home. Your kids are relegated to a postcard size that is public and you cant put in an an envelope to communicate with your family. And visits are often turned into video visits. So a Company Comes in a charges 20 for a visit, and your family still has to drive to the jail, but they cant see you. They are put in a separate room with a video monitor. There is a lot of private companies benefiting from mass incarceration and making things worse within the criminal Justice System. Representative privatized prisons are a selffulfilling prophecy. If cells are empty, the state can often be find in the state is going to do everything they can to fill these beds, so it is a selffulfilling prophecy and no one wins, except people making money. Representative a state that was home to the Prison Corporation of america, i was a state senator there for 20 years. They would lobby for longer sentences, lobby against different ways of release, and they made a lot of money and have done really well. It is unfortunate. It shouldnt happen. Has anybody done studies on the cost to society of having a mother, particularly as distinguished from a father, who is removed from a family, and what cost that has to society at large . About financial, i havent seen studies on the financial cost, but i know the cost to children is that they often develop depression, theety, and they end up in criminal and juvenile Justice System. That is the human cost of being in separated of being separated from their mothers, because they dont have guidance they need in their early stages and are traumatized by their separation from their mother. I can tell you my own personal study, we had two incomes when we were married, our family, and we purchased our first home, we bought property to build our first home. When i was indicted and went away to prison, we went to a singlefamily income where my thenhusband adam had to take a different job because he couldnt take care of a six week old baby with the hours. So he had a loss of income. Then he became dependent on the state for medical insurance for the children. I mean, you just lose. Representative i have a bill called the fresh start act with democratic leadership and we might have a chance to move it. It would provide a pathway for expungement of federal crimes if you have seven years without any penalties and a few have a nonviolent crime, you can get your record expunged. How would expungement help women, and other prisoners with family reunification . Expungement would be a huge benefit and a good example of a smart policy change. Fortunate much more than most formerlyincarcerated people in this country, but i still cannot escort my sons field trips under ohio state law, because i have a felony conviction. Conduct since my release in 2005. Underould say expungement appropriate guidelines, with whatever you have considered putting into the legislation would be a huge benefit. There are and estimated 70 Million People in this country who have some kind of criminal record. This is not a french issue. This is something that impacts in a normas number of americans. Chair before we conclude, i want to thank todays witnesses. This was a very, very powerful hearing. One of the things im so encouraged by is that this was a very bipartisan hearing, from the witnesses and also from the questions and comments of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle. I want to make a few points and concluding. Clear, and statistics would back up, that women are not arrested 100 , but a High Percentage of women are arrested and incarcerated because of their relationships with men. The conspiracy laws that especially were used during the war on drugs were used to arrest leverage use women as as the female partner of a drug dealer, to get at the man, maybe with the assumption that he would rescue her. Is, he abandons her, cuts or lose, and she often takes the wrap takes the rap and often serves more time than the man she was being leveraged for. A small percentage of women are arrested for violent crime, that even then, it is often related to abuse, it is related to responding to someone who is abusing her, especially women who are arrested for murder. Opportunitys us an to examine genderspecific criminal Justice Reform. Isn a woman delivers and separated from her child, like was shown in the clip, a is not just a matter that she is sad. It is massive physiological changes that happened during and especially after pregnancy. There is a massive decrease in hormones happening to that woman. When women go into postpartum depression, it is physiological as well as psychological. Imagine whaty happens to women who are put in solitary confinement during pregnancy or after delivery. It puts them at risk for suicide. There islad to see interest and support on the issue from both sides of the and conversation we have had with each other during this hearing, i believe this could be the first step toward developing comprehensive legislation that addresses criminal Justice Reform, that is also gender specific. Thank you. The hearing is adjourned. [gavel striking block] thank you. Nice working with you. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer more Live Programming coming up today with joint chiefs of staff chair general joseph dunford, expected to discuss defense strategy, starting live at 6 00 p. M. Eastern here on cspan, online at cspan. Org or listen live with the free cspan radio app. Tonight on cspan at 10 00 eastern, a debate on capitalism versus socialism with conservative economist Stephen Moore and the author of the book open quotes the socialist manifest the book the socialist manifesto. What the socialism mean to you . Socialism means more government control over the economy. , you made ai have lot of excellent points, the problem i have with this kind of argument that we just want to move from Free Enterprise more in this direction, but we dont want maoism, we want this middle ground. Light, not that kind of socialism. And ideas like that are saying, we want the good kind of socialism like nordic countries. And that is like saying we want the good venereal disease, not the bad venereal disease. Themore you move towards socialist direction, the more you are giving up your freedom. Im talking about freedom, where the social Democratic Party, the government socialist workers without beingd interrupted from the 1930s until 1976. They were able to create a society with public guarantees to health care, childcare, education, housing, and achieve better key social indicators than we have in the u. S. Today. Social democratic states, these societies limit freedom for people to own private property, places to produce goods and services, not your car, your house, your toothbrush, and do what they will with their private property. But for the majority of those who dont, they enjoy a greater range of choices and a greater chance to propel their potential. They have greater freedom not because of private property upheld, but because the freedom for the minority who own private property is limited. 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