The hearing will come to order appeared good morning. Those g people from is a central goal. Frauds and scams targeting our seniors. Theg the phone and internet, fraudsters have proven to be relentless. To protect our nations seniors, we must continue not only to prosecute con artists who still literally billions from seniors, but also to find new and more illegale ways to block spoofing and robo calls at the network level. Last year, robo colors generated more than 26 alien dollars more than 26 billion unwanted callers that reached American Mobile phones. When land lines are included, the number soars to 48 billion. Residentslone, our received an astonishing 93 million robo calls last year. That is an average of 73 calls to each person in our state. This year, scammers are on pace billionate more than 58 unwanted illegal robo calls targeting american consumers. These scammers are overwhelmingly initiated by offshore robo callers using new technology to perpetuate their schemes. Today, we will focus on a practice called spoofing. This allows scammers to mask identities by replacing the caller id tied to their actual phone number with one that fits their story. When victims see the Internal Revenue service or the local onriffs department pop up their caller id, they understandably answer the phone. They also are worried, scared, and also easily hustled into doing whatever the scammers demand. With the emergence of the modern voiceover internet protocol criminals can operate from call centers anywhere in the world. As far away from american Law Enforcement as they can possibly to hide theirp identity while generating millions of robo calls at a very low cost. Our committee has called on regulators in the Business Community to Work Together more aggressively to stop scammers and othervoip technologies to facilitate fraud. Have seen some progress on that front. U. S. Telecom developed a program to identify the source of the illegal robo calls. Carriers are working to implement new technology called shake and stir, that will allow consumers to tell whether or not the caller id that shows up on their phones is legitimate or has been spoofed. The implementation and the cost of these technologies to protect these consumers have been slow. A moreng it more aggressive and correlated approach against robo callers by the federal government. The department of justice led a federal investigation in 2016 that closed down five call centers in india. A few weeks ago, the federal trade commission and Law Enforcement partners announced operation call it quits, a major crackdown against foreign domestic defendants allegedly responsible for more than one billion calls nationwide. The federal Communications Commission has also been more active. These federal actions represent progress our committee has pressed for two crackdown on robo callers. Now the committee is calling for a nextgeneration approach, not only to crackdown on the criminals, but also to consider solutions toide prevent robo call spoofing fraud in the first place. We have recently taken an important step in the senate by passing the act i was proud to be a cosponsor of. I hope it would be signed into law soon. Today along with many of my colleagues, lime introducing the antispoofing penalty modernization act. Which will complement the byvision from robo collars doubling existing penalties and extending the statute of limitations on prosecuting illegal spoofing. Despite all of these efforts, is number of robo calls expected to soar. To defeat these scammers, we need new technological approaches. We know from experience the scammers are ruthless and relentless and as long as these fraudsters can access our television networks, they will continue to flood our phones closer toons of calls their source before they can today, we learn about new network approaches with the potential to ultimately stop robo call and fraud altogether. Technology, we will be reminded today, we must never forget our purpose is to protect the victims of these notorious scammers. Too many seniors continue to lose harder money and often, their entire retirement savings, to con artists. As we will hear today, these scammers can shatter the lives of seniors and their families and impose a cost that cannot be. Easured in money alone i now please turn to our ranking the senator, for his opening statement. Thank you. I know many in the country are divided on a range of issues. We are united as americans in despising these robo calls. For some, the calls have become more than just a nuisance. Nuisance. Other endtists on the of the line often turn a conversation into a heist literally. They threaten our aging loved ones and they rip away their earned savings. As well hear today these also cause n terrible tragedy. The perpetrator of these crimes pursued and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and they should be designed bars. I was supposed to support resources for the department of federal trade commission to successfully ngage in two of the largest coordinated sweeps of companies thelitating these calls and criminals making them. Unfortunately even these action that is took place earlier this deterred the con artists. As one of our witnesses, sheriff pennsylvania will explain, some fraudsters only more emboldened. They rig phone lines so the number shows up, the number that on caller i. D. Appears to be the number of a local office. R sheriffs sheriff sanders and local Law Enforcement officials across the country dont take such impersonation lightly. Are requiring an investment of time and resources across the s country. Instead of focusing only on what our do best, keeping streets and our communities Law Enforcement officials must spend precious time keeping the phone lines safe. Reasons why f the im pleased to have introduced the stop or moran, senior scams act. Just recently. Bill will create another line of defense against scammers by giving bank tellers, cashiers the tools to spot a scam and prevent someone from ver handing over cash to a stranger on the phone. We hope that this bill is swiftly. Much of what well discuss today is how these crimes occur. Forget the not Important Role that both ndustry and regulators play in preventing an illegal robocall from being connected in the place. So we must make sure that the rules are in place to allow adopt and to mplement the most up to date Call Authentication and blocking technologies. That the senate recently passed an act as referred to and that the federal communications finalized new rules to help get this technology to every consumer telephone. But as well hear today we have a lot more to do. Health,tal and financial indeed, very wellbeing of our loved ones, is at stake. Hearing more to from our witnesses. We thank our witnesses, and i also look forward to working chairman collins and other colleagues to put an end to these destructive calls. You, madam chair. Thank you very much, senator casey. I also want to thank senator scott of florida for being with us today. Been a very active member of the aging committee and were happy to have him here. Well now turn to our witnesses. Our first witness is angela, who texas. S from shes the granddaughter of lake ie jones from charles, louisiana. Memory oftestifies in voice for ther and a the scores, the hundreds of fallen victimhave to eldzer fraud. ll northern to the Ranking Member to introduce our witness from the commonwealth. Im pleased to introduce sheriff Jerry Sanders from pennsylvania. Sheriff sanders served as sheriff since 2018. He previously served as a sheriffs deputy in the city of philadelphia and later retired inspector. In addition to his law background, sheriff sanders is a minister in his chief and is the chaplain of the center. Tirement as well hear from his Law Enforcement and religious leaders are not spared from getting tangled up in these robocalls. Would like to welcome the sheriffs wife, juanita, right ehind him over his right shoulder, and his chief deputy mike honin a hugh, both of whom trip to be with us right from pennsylvania, next to philadelphia. We look forward, sheriff to hearing your testimony. You. Thank you. Ur third witness will be delaney de leoncolon. Inspector who oversees the criminal Investigative Unit of the United States postal service. Throughout her 15 years of postal service, hes managed teams focusing on various forms of theft and Money Laundering that frequently robocalls. These finally, well be pleased to frankel. David hes a Telecommunications Expert who has worked in high erformance computer and Networking Technology since 1974. Helped to implement the trace back effort which has in sted Law Enforcement tracking down the origin of Illegal Robocalls. All for joining us, and we will begin with ms. Stanchek. Good morning. Chairman collins, Ranking Member case circumstances and other members inviting mettee for to be here today. Honored. My grandmother, Marjorie Jones, was a victim of elder fraud. There are no words to express what she meant to me and my loved and how much we all and adored her. The examples of her faith and confined to e forever be hell missed. Y grandmother was targeted and pursued nonstop by a ring of fraudsters. Individuals used to tive and cunning tactics gain her trust. D her she had won large cash prize and all she needed to and fees. The taxes i first realized my grandmother was a victim of elder fraud in i ever hadnversation with her. Phone call is very painful. She explained that she needed 6,000 wired to her as soon as possible. Er forceful tone and desperation was very upsetting. Could hear the panic in her voice and she was very, very afraid. Phone call set off many red lags and everyone grew extremely concerned about her financial situation. Single time w of a in her entire life where she ver borrowed money from an individual. My father informed me that he 8,000 the week prior, and he assured me he was was g to find out what happening. He mentioned his fears that was scamming her, but because she was so desperate and the 6,000. Ent her wanted. Than a weekied less later. T pains me to talk about my grandmothers horrific death chose to take her own life. T is extremely hard to imagine loved one committing can suicide, but she did, because preyed on her ls and on her good heart. And the last rs, chapter of her life was taken her. It is clear to us that the circumstances that led to her were caused by these criminals. After her death, we found out just how much these criminals had taken from her. Found hidden in a closet several bags full of wire had been here she sending large sums of money overseas. Visited these wire Marketing Services to talk with discovered that they had warned her that this they t legitimate and believed it was a scam. He continued to wire money but used a different location. We also discovered not only did they drain her of all the money to saves,r a lifetime but that she had taken out a reverse mortgage on her home and all of her Life Insurance. With 69 in r died her bank account. In the summer of 2016, we were notified by the department of that the individuals who committed this crime against her were caught. Ne had been extradited from costa rica and was already in the sentencing phase. I traveled from houston to to lotte, North Carolina, read my victim impact statements to the court and to finally to ns face one of the individuals who did this. Because of that statement i was to speak with former attorney general Jeff Sessions n february 2018, when he announced the elder fraud sweep. Ince then, i have been contacted by Many Americans who are facing the exact type of scam. And personally, i know two other close Family Friends that have impacted by the grandparent the medical Debt Collection scam. On behalf of my grandmother, Marjorie Jones i want to thank committee for hearing and exploring the growing and fraud lt problem of against the elderly. E live in a fast paced youth Oriented Society and elder issues are not high on the agenda. But you have the ability to show shining a rship by light on this topic. Thank you for your passion. Thank you for recognizing, as a government, as a society, and as must increase our efforts to ensure that our eniors are protected from the criminals that prey on them. Our seniors in this country to live out their lives with dignity and honor. You. K thank you very much for your moving testimony. And for your willingness to come forward and share such a painful, horrible story with us. To use youve been willing do that, im sure that you have so many around this nation, and thats a tremendous to honor the memory of your grandmother, so i thank you for and speaking out publicly, and im so sorry for family have your endured. Here. You for being sheriff sanders. Sanders chairman collins, Ranking Member casey members of the committee, im sheriff sanders jr. And i delray the sheriff of county, pennsylvania. Thank you for the opportunity to committee ore the about my offices experience c callmers using robo spoofing technologies. They experience occasional reports from citizens about robocalls fromor unknown persons. Scams vary but the most common form is the caller claims potential victim has missed jury duty and there is a warrant for their arrest. Will identify themselves as a member of the Sheriffs Office. Using a fake name. In one recent incident the of an used the name actual deputy, who went so far voicemailthe deputys greeting as their own. If the Sheriffs Office is able from a potential it im calling it back, typically results in no answer. On occasion someone will answer but once they realize the call Sheriffs Office, and were asking legitimate typically they terminate the call. The er aspect of this is call is often using spoofing technology. This is when they are able to program the actual Sheriffs Office main number to show on potential victims caller i. D. This is often how we find out about the calls. Potential victim, in most cases, people who realize omething is amiss, terminates the call and calls back using which is yed number the Actual Office number. We will tell them that this is a scam. Office does not all people that we have business with. It is either done through u. S. In most cases, in deputy. L service boy the in addition, under no circumstances will we ever ask for information over the phone ask for money or any other valuable thing to avoid arrest. On or in two separate incidents that occurred over the last several onths, professionals were targeted. The scammers convinced two of them that they were subject to missing jury duty. In one case they were able to get the victim to travel to a withdraw 3,000. Nd then on to retail establishments where she was instructed to purchase thousands of dollars in money cards. Or gift cards, and ended up mailing them all. Husband grew suspicious and looked on the sheriffs webpage, on the county but it and saw the scam, was too late. In the most recent case, a was used and they advised one of the victims, a he was old doctor that subject to arrest for not responding to a grand jury subpoena. They had him convinced enough that they had him on the phone approximately an hour, and had coaxed him all the way to a media, pennsylvania. And thats approximately 10 and 20 minutes away. And they instructed him to 6,000. W they advised him that he should answer ore phone, not communicate with anyone and to follow their instructions. His wife in the meantime grew and tried to call him repeatedly. When she could not reach him she Sheriffs Office. With that call and information, provide, we were able to contact the bank and asually intercept the victim he was parking his vehicle of the scamxecution and saved the victim thousands of dollars. In the most recent case the was approached by the chief deputy, who was in plainclothes and robbed in an unmarked car. A, the man ief first was skeptical, first approached, he man was skeptical saying had the Sheriffs Office on the phone. The scam terminated the call by he time the chief took the victims phone. Once the victim realized what had just happened, he explained concerned about his medical license, and that if he were to be arrested, that his license would be jeopardized, as well as his position as a director. Losing sight of the fact that an elaborate, this was elaborate ruse. With them keeping him on the the , running him across county and telling him not to this to anyone, et cetera, ruse. N fact, just a he was intercepted a block from the courthouse. With the building in view, but going in to verify, he was actually going to the withdraw the money. He then likely would have been federally go to a authorized retailer to purchase money or gift cards, which he then be instructed to give all pertinent information over the phone. And in some cases, to mail them. In the three most recent cases believed the scammers were able to gather personal potential on the victims, two medical rofessionals, and an architect beforehand. Most likely from the web. This enhances the scam mers convince the victim since they know much about them, legitimate. Ll is this gets the victim off balance potentialhe threat of arrest, and then offer of the fine, they opt for that to avoid arrest. Older t targets are persons who typically have Great Respect for authority, and tend be much more trusting. Circulate through the state. Well often see emails from offices in fs response, when we experience and we push out press social media notifications to warn the public, and we have a alert on the county website. Unfortunately, given the limits manpower and resources, local Law Enforcements can do little these crimes to arrest. Often trying to keep the public avoid victimization is the best we can do. That pleased to learn senator casey has introduced legislation that would help tellers, cashiers, and others about how to spot a potential scam victim and to to stop it. In this way, they would serve as nother line of defense, protecting our family, friends, and neighbors, from these criminals. Also think that more must be done by the telecommunications callers to stop these from getting through in the first place. Thank you for the opportunity to the committee today. I look forward to answering any questions that you may have. Thank you very much, sheriff, for being with us today. Leoncolon. De di get close . Correct. Good morning. I appreciate the opportunity to to combat efforts fraught. Im the inspector in charge of service al inspection criminalization group. I oversee several National Programs including mail fraud. Arriving to washington, d. C. , i was in charge of our in. I field office that role i worked with uthorities in jamaica, to investigate lottery and sweepstakes fraud. I began my Law Enforcement later with the ins and with the secret service before eing pointed as postal inspector in 2004. Every day people are bombarded offers. Otions and as a Law Enforcement officer i language persuasive and hightech deception are used to catch the attention of convince them to depart with their money. Imagine your phone rings and a tells youhe other end its your lucky day. An ver, you must first pay insurance fee. Once they have been persuaded to ay a fee, they take the relationship to the next level, asking yet for more money. While emotionally isolating the from friends and family, most of the victims we interviewed were not aware that spoofing technology existed. By their own admission, they their doubts and bought into the callers fabulous claims because of the nformation displayed on their caller i. D. Spoofed phone numbers were instrumental in leading victims they ieve the call received was for real. Which ms. Stancik testified was investigated by postal inspectors in North Carolina with assistant from the bureau of investigation, i would say Internal Revenue service. A Jamaican National and griffin, u. S. Citizen, both living in costa rica, along with others supervised, posed as representatives of the securities and exchange federal trade commission. They contacted consumers in the United States claiming they had a prize. The Costa Rica Call Center took teps to conceal its true identity, using spoofing technology that made it appear from lls they made came washington, d. C. , which gave considerable weight to the scam. Aher technologies also played part. At trial, one victim testified keep paying asto the caller knew where she and her family lived. Other images and information from the internet to make his point. Costa rica were sent by Wire Transfer or through mail couriers. Smith and griffin also hired home s to meet victims at to get their cash. 90 defendants were charged. Eight worked in the call center. Caught laundering funds between the United States and rica. Postal inspectors identified over a thousand people who more than 10 st million just in connection with case. Particular one such person was ms. Jones. s grandmother, several were extradited to the United States while others were arrested within the United States. Fugitives. N smith and griffin were both convicted and in april of this 20 sentenced to more than years in federal prison. S. Stancik testified on behalf of her grandmother at the sentencing of one of the defendants. Is Inspection Service aggressively investigating fraudsters in connection with is mail even when the mail not the first point of contact. We participate in the newly ormed department of justice elder fraud strikeforce and have inspectors working full time in in europe in the haig. We also know, it requires effort fronts. We engage with consumers at all howes of life to teach them to recognize schemes and take steps to safeguard their how to including Contact Service providers for help blocking these unwanted calls. I want to thank the committee for holding this hearing. Committees effort to address the issue of spoof technologies that facilitate scammers an ive unfair advantage. Thank you. Your nk you so much for testimony and for the great work that youre doing. Frankelle, thank you for being here. Collinsmorning, senator and Ranking Member casey and members of the special committee. Name is david frankel, im a provider of specialized telecommunications applications. Honored to be here. I note this week were celebrating 50 years since some americans came together and put our own on the moon. I would like to believe that two enerations later we can collectively across the industry and enforcement and regulation get our phone network back from scammers that have taken it hostage. In my remarks today i want to perspective on Illegal Robocalls including how they work technically, commercially why they persist. Ill attempt to convince that you this problem can be addressed through a cooperative effort to stop robocalls closer to their source. I prepared a diagram that the path tan by most robocalls. Before i start, i want to make a critical point clear. There is no way to send a call robo or otherwise, to a u. S. Based consumer telephone except by arrangement with a originating provider here in the United States. In other words, robocallers located outside the united inside for that matter, must buy whats called from anmination service originating provider to get their robocalls on to our u. S. Network. Typically pass through multiple subsequent providers before reaching the telecom that directly serve consumers. These originating providers to invest in any equipment. Standard Computing Resources can be used to process these calls those resources can easily be rented in the cloud. Over o this with voice internet protocol, referred to voip providers. Their approach is to place an enormous number of calls through voip providers in the hope of finding a handful of victims. Snags just hahn dollars from each of 50 victims day he could collect a hundred dollars a month. Hell need to hire a few humans to close each deal but the magic robo calling is that most of the work making millions of very cheap calls in search of done by victims is computer. Even after paying his staff and hose providers, our example robocaller could be clearing 70,000 a grand each month. He select subset of voip providers that enable the robocallers are generally small operations with low overhead. A monthly basis a voip provider in this country serving and placingocallers a hundred million robocalls on o the u. S. Network could earn 50 to a hundred thousand dollars in profit. Operators could account for three billion robocalls each month. The best place to stop this is with those providers, where the traffic is most concentrated, as the llegal calls move through the network, they disperse and are commingled with other calls more difficult. We should know the source of each call from its caller i. D. , immediately tous the problem of spoofing. Illegal robocallers and scammers go out of their way to choose a voip provider that allows them and loose with caller i. D. Ultimately, the new protocol are implementing will help make it clear whether a caller i. D. Is authentic but wait for that protocol the Telecom Industry today has a rocess called trace back to identify the source of a given call. Providers have records of each their networks, working cooperatively each provider starting with the call r that serves the consumer at the bottom of my diagram, searches its records identifies the next provider in the chain upward that pass the call to it until the the der who allowed robocalls on to the network in the first place, is reached. Traceback used to be entirely manual and required subpoenas to each provider taking weeks to months. Process has been automated and can be completed within days or even hours. Have to trace back billions or millions of calls. Can get ssful example us to the source. By tracing back selected call robocall rom illegal campaigns, the providers that allowed those calls on to the. S. Network can be identified and notified to take steps to stop the calls. Step in where providers refuse to mitigate the calls. Must be prudent about who gets what kind of access to the u. S. Telephone network. It makes no sense for a robocaller in india, identified gmail address to be placing huge numbers of calls that look like they are all over the om usa. Voip providers within our own that allow that to appen are the best choke point to stop the Illegal Robocalls. We must engage those providers to be part of the solution contributing to the problem. Questions. Our thank you very much, mr. Frankel. m going to start with you, because i feel strongly that creativity ofmous these ruthless criminals, that technological solution thats closer to the source. I have been trying to sort it ut and thats why your estimony is so helpful, who whose responsibility is it to identify these bogus robocalls . Ou talk about they are small operators but they choose a voip provider that allows them in, whose responsibility is it, someone making a lot allowing these . Alls into the system making the scammers are illions of dollars as your information shows. Thanks for the question. Indeed these small voip providers that are allowing to make their calls. In the universe of communications providers, and many, many hundreds, a few thousand of them perhaps in country, most of them are businesses, and they are providing various kinds of services, to consumers, to other businesses, that all have legitimate needs to use the network. E there are a small number of voip cater to the kind of traffic that is associated with robo calling, and there are Illegal Robocalls and there are legal robocalls so we talk about reminders and School Closings and things like that, which involve blasting out a lot of calls periodically and hose are legitimate and providers that serve them but those same providers or providers holding themselves out to serve that kind of need are potentialhat are also conduits for these illegal calls. And those are the ones that, where we need to have our focus upon ey need to be called to be more diligent about to grant access, that llows the massive calling and the spoofing that we see in the domain. Robocall thank you. Helpful. Ry let me just ask one other question. Technological barrier difficult to actors . Y these bad another great question. You that it is challenging to know whats a bad call. And whats a hats especially true because telecommunication providers generally dont have access to of the telephone call. Thats private and technologically, they are not being said hat is when a call is placed. So they dont know whether omebody is saying your prescription is ready or youve giant sweepstake. But, there are other haracteristics that the Telecommunications Providers do have access to, that can make it more apparent and at least raise suspicions. For example, when a customer is overseas, or even when they country, and they are making massive numbers of a ls, and each one is from different number, caller i. D. Shows a different number, thats suspicious. Why would that be the case . Who would legitimately be doing that . School im going to use the same number for every call i place. F im the pharmacy, ill have perhaps a group of my pharmacy numbers in my library, but i using other random numbers and thousands, millions of them from all over the country. So there are those clues. The he provider has technology to screen what number their customers are providing as i. D. , when the call is placed. There e absolutely are absolutely Technology Approaches and solution that is to be applied if you choose apply them, and youll note, thousands of voip providers or providers of telecommunication services. Robocalls dont originate from the vast majority of them. Very riginate through a small set of them. So we have an existence proof they can be prevented. Thank you very much. Casey. R thanks very much, sheriff sanders, ill start with you. Recently put an ad in the ocal paper that we wanted to thank you for because you were providing a kind of Public Education campaign about this issue. And i have no doubt that that arning that you put in the paper prevented others from crime. G victim to this i guess the question i have for you is, what did you learn from one, anderience, number number two, how would you recommend to other Law Enforcement, especially local Law Enforcement officials, in order to prevent this being crime from perpetrated . Could i ask you to turn on please. C, when other agencies become think f phone scams, i they should also make it known to the public. Think that we should participate more in Community Going into terms of senior residences, and speaking about phone scams and making people aware. A joint effort that say here, ld, as we make a concerted effort to vulnerable ost portion of our population. Believe that the danger in not doing so makes the job of law dangerous, more because if people are paranoid authority and legitimate and cant tell the difference, our deputies, our on the street, can be exposed to additional Deutsche Bank whenever they knock on the and the the citizen is exposure to legitimate authority and overquestioning on both sides. There may be a legitimate reason. He might have a warrant. And deem the person on the other side of the door as being enough to break. Hes just a senior, thats become so questioning because been exposed to a phone scam. That this is contagious and it can spill into areas of Law Enforcement and make it more dangerous for more ficers and also dangerous for the public. One thing you mentioned as we earlier today in its a potential and doubt. When Law Enforcement approaches citizen, they may have doubts bout that Law Enforcement official or about the institution they represent of use of the proliferation this fraud, huh . Yes. And youve run into that directly, i guess in some way or another. Well, before becoming sheriff, which is more hands on, i e than was a deputy for 23 years. When you knock on the door, and you show your identification someone answers, if they are suspicious of that, thats a situation that could escalate. Stem from paranoia that with phone scams. Fact l, we appreciate the that you brought reallife experience to this, not just rom a distance, but from what you and your deputies have had to encounter. Highlighted y also a situation where your deputies that o a bank to stop resident from actually completing the transaction, been, would have have cost him thousands of dollars and were grateful for that. A bill, as i d entioned, to help educate basically three groups of folks. At tellers and others Financial Institutions, individuals who work at wire the fer companies, and third is those who work in the establishment. Tell us the about how that might anything else and that you hope we could do by way f a policy change or legislation . I just, i consider all of things that were talking about connected. Here today, i think its multiprong, proactive effort to educate our seniors. I think what were talking about be part of our conversation, wherever were at, worship, ses of community centers, every level of government, when they have form where the public can speak. They can inform the public. Were doing now. State, local. From all corners. To iprong and concerted, alert our seniors. That. Need us to do and we also know that triggered by a senior that may have early on dementia or some ailment thats more prevalent among our seniors. We have to be there for them. Sheriff. S, thank you, senator braun. Chair. Nk you, madam normally when were talking about Something Like this we dont have something as simple point. Oke when you mention that, that really kind of converges on, you what the solution is to the problem. Here. Ot several questions and this is directed at mr. Frankelle, frankel, if you can give me some answers. How long has technology been around that made it easy . Since land n around lines or thank you, senator. Knowledge, i mean, my own personal experience, going back the phone network has scams for uit for various kinds. There was a ing scam against phone companies that scammers used to iraqi ts companies. From phone but the recent focus on elderly, has been kind of along technology thats present to do it. Thats correct. Phone calls have gotten cheaper, when f you will remember we use to pay 25 cents to call across the country per minute included in just your cell phone plan. So Technological Progress has way,ht the cost of calling way down. As made mass calling available more readily to more people including more scammers. How many voip providers roughly are out there . You said, basically a small kind of specializes in the scam. Be clear, that there are a number of voip are ders and many of them legitimate. Roughly how many would that be . Think there are probably a few hundred business that is use voip at the core of their business. Maybe a thousand even, and i that there are a few dozen that are positioned to ave their platforms used for illegal that seemingly would make it easier would you think so. To remedy this. I look at it kind of similar to crisis, where now we know that distributors, you data, saw all the something was askew, just didnt looks like, you it , its an issue where shouldnt be that difficult to flush this out. Would be, is any third party taken an interest in after these g couple of dozen scammers, in the need help, en you you generally have someone there hats going to help out the victim, thats made this, you know, a mission . To nybody out there trying help the elderly thats getting outside of the families . Well, i dont know that i can speak to that. I can tell you that within the industry, i ations and morere seeing more and more support for identifying nd highlighting and dealing with these voip providers that are the conduits. I think that would be wise telecommunications middleman cause the distributing drugs are all getting sued in some form or another. Think its a great analogy that you brought up. Or ave there been any civil criminal cases filed against the dy within telecommunications circuit, specifically the dozen or so voips . One of the things thats surprised me is that when the regulators have gone after the robocallers, they go after what they call the callers. Scammers, and, in fact, if theread the indictments and other notices, they dont name the voip providers are that enabled that to happen. Shift. re seeing a i just this week have been talking to enforcement town, and s in this hey do have license revocation authority. Hey do have injunctive authority. Im hoping that we start to see that happen. Ill finish with. Its like many of the things ive been involved with here in a short time. The Underlying Industries have the knowledge, put up with it, gets to a ommittee hearing before anything gets done. Would say, like ive admonished the Healthcare Industry when it comes to fixing tself in general, Telecommunications Industry and voip ought to be concerned, and surprising to me that they havent taken to it task already. Its disappointing. Concerned, and i think were rallying the troops. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Senator sinema. Thank you, chairman collins, Ranking Member cassie and all of our witnesses for being here today. The number one Consumer Complaint that the Arizona Attorney general receives and more than 550 have been ocalls placed to arizonians in just the 2019. Six months of but robocalls are more than just while not every call is a scam we must go after he criminals that use robocals to harass seniors. Utility as a collector. In arizona, where temperatures an easily top 110 degrees, thats a threat to a Seniors Health and wellbeing and some fear. Out of i also heard from maggie, who is here today, whose elderly tucson, arizona, were robbed of their life savings in a sweepstakes scam. Maggies father is a 20year veteran of the United States air force. Alzheimers, and hes lost much of what his family saved from his military pension. Their story is horrifying, but all too common. Worked with y i chairman collins to pass the senior safe act into law last financial empowers institutions to identify and stop financial exploitation families like maggies lose everything. Chairman to join collins to introduce antispoofing enalties, it hasnt changed since they first became law in 2010. Our bill also helps enforcement extending the statute of limitations for these violations from two years to three years. There have been increasing reports of Hospital Systems getting inundated with thousands robocalls a day which jams their phone systems and puts lives in danger. From a doctor in who is required to have her cell phone with her at all times. Every minute that wasted on an audio recording is taken away from a medical emergency. What can businesses or organizations, especially those serve vulnerable populations do to combat these extent do you at believe thats types of scams that target hospitals or tend to be from Law Enforcement and i. R. S. Impact Public Health and safety . Thanks for the question. I think whether its a hospital agency, thesether are all damaging, and the are indiscriminate target. Hey choose to its a phishing expedition for about what the most lucrative scam is and if it targeting o be hospitals then thats what they will do. It absolutely impacts the that, tions, and i think recipient of those calls, their ability to mitigate is, its too far down the line to ask them to try to do that. We can make them cautious. Absolutely have to educate them but we have to go back to i root cause, and, in fact, will tell you that i have spoken with a voip provider in who admitted to me allowing four million calls a day on to our network from a customer of his india, where all of those calls are spoofed. To indian caller is claiming be calling from the United States and hes allowing this hes livid with me for calling him out on it. Going s told me hes not to cooperate with me further, and that if i want to now i will chase down authorities who can do that. There is no excuse for that. My second question is also for you, adam is an assistant engineering at Arizona State university. Experts like adam has called work a National Effort to build a detailed map of the robo call ecosystem. They raised concerns about trace back not being a silver bullet. Do you think there will still be gaps in how we protect both from robo calls and other specific oldernges that depend on Telecommunication Systems . Everdo not believe we will get this problem down to zero. The scammers are very clever. We will need to have programs and systems in place that react to how they react with what we do. It is a moving target and we need to plan for that. There arei think absolutely things we can do that will reduce and limit this. With respect to your question about rural communities, certainly with respect to shake and stir, Call Authentication technology, that is new technology and relies on new networks to work. Traditionally, we know from the rural providers that they tend to be the last to upgrade their networks. Their ability to take advantage of that new technology and offer that new technology to their customers is some long way, years away. These illegal robo calls do not come into our network through rural carriers. Way come into the network upstream. If we stop them there, we will stop them for everybody. It will not be able to reach urban dwellers or they will be limited in their ability to reach rural customers as well. Thank you, i really appreciate you having this really important hearing today. It is impacting so many of our constituents around the country. I want to point out maggie dickens, who is here today, and her story of her parents that were robbed of nearly 750,000 because of these scams. Of thiso share more story. I think it is important. The individuals who stole from her not only convinced her to wire the money but trained her parents, they prepared scripts for them to read at Banking Institutions to legitimize the need. They impersonated her parents over the phone to the Life Insurance company, allowing them to cash in her parents Life Insurance policy. When the criminals didnt get answers fast enough, they sent taxicabs to deliver messages and trying get my parents into the cab. The individuals instructed my mother to open multiple credit cards and buy large number of gift cards or retail stores. They are both elderly and your father is at the beginning stage of alzheimers when this happened. He is a 20 Year Air Force veteran. You think about how many people were touched just by how many people they interacted with. It starts with the robo call but there are so many other people on the front line of identifying some not right is happening. Nobody acted. We had a lot of great discussion what more can be done . We have to stop the robo calls in the first place. There were so many indications that they were about to be robbed. What more can be done . What have you seen in your experience to address the front line of all these other people touched in the midst of this scam. Your story is similar but it is happening everywhere, what else can we do . The typical answer would be more police. That is not the answer here. The answer is what we are doing now. Requiring the laws that are proposed by senator casey so the technological industry has some constraints. Expectations that it has to live up to. It is everything. It is family. It is friends looking out for elderly friends and making them aware of what we are aware of. Make thisere needs to part of the daily routine dialogue when we come in contact with a senior. They are coming at us in a technological way. Our response has to be in a human way. You said veterans are more likely to be scam. Maggies dad was a veteran, can you elaborate more on this. As a veteran myself, this is deeply disturbing. They will look on two victims that will provide a benefit to them. It entices the scammers to obtain access to the information. Piece. Weis a great have to educate our veterans and their families the same way we have to educate the elderly. We have to educate the community and families to identity when one of our family members, elderly or veteran is being targeted. Another asset we have to look onto is veterans utilize emotion. They know the camaraderie within theyran Community Tell them they are veterans as well. They come into conversations steaming up conversations where they will help other veterans creating charity. That is how they entice veterans. There is a special place in hell for those preying upon those who served and sacrificed for our country. We need to go after these people. It starts with the phone call. I have a neighbor in her 60s. She is pretty technologically savvy and is all of a sudden getting nonstop calls. The technology has got to be there to stop it. She has gone to the provider and they say you have to upgrade your phone if we will try something. She doesnt have the ability to upgrade. What else can we do . I hate to sound like a broken record but by the time the call gets to your neighbor and to her ofvider, it is lost in a sea millions of other calls, many of which are legitimate. Identifying it is very difficult for her provider. Calls needs of the to move upstream where the point of the constant ration of billion of illegal calls coming into our network. That is the provider who has the ability to identity i and stop the calls. Unlike the rest of the Telecommunications Community that is rallying and livid about these calls, these guys are just asleep at the switch and letting it happen. The guy at the store says i just ignore them. You cant ignore hundreds of calls every day. Thank you all for your testimony. Thank you very much for describing maggies story as well. Senator jones. Thank you chairman collins for all of your leadership on this issue. It is so important as someone who has elderly parents, one of them still lives by her telephone. I want to highlight something. Of the problems i see everybody has talked about it. When elderly folks get calls from someone who appears to be a legitimate Law Enforcement can talk whatever, you to them all day long. If the sheriff calls, you will take that call. Constituent had a call us to tell us they had gotten a call from senator jones office checking up on Social Security benefits and they have to verify information about Social Security number. Because we checked at my office would lose their benefits if we did not get their number. That senior wasnt smart enough to call our office. We can talk about education a lot. I talk to my mom all the time. Where are our seniors getting most of their information so the education can be there. There are not many watching cspan today. There are not many out there my mom cant see good. You cane i think answer this. Folks, are educating where are they getting their information . It is a different generation, they are not looking at phones or ipads. Where are they getting information . I believe one place that seniorse informing our is places of worship. Many of our seniors attend regularly. Many leaders and faithbased organizations should make this Information Available to our seniors. Where is she getting her information . I would say Doctors Office would be a good place. Like he said, in church. Mailers. Psas or other they get a lot of mail. Orings that are easy f them to understand and read would help. Doctors offices, places of worship are good places. Companies help . Telleport a scam, can we fcc to do some Public Service announcements, just not only on the nightly news . Would that help . All of the above. Jumps way ahead, quickly. My mothers generation and maybe mine, they are not as technologically savy. Vy. My children will know about this a lot better. What we have to do to stay ahead of the game . What are we looking at in five years or 10 years down the road . So folks who are 50 years old now who are pretty technologically savvy and when they get a call saying they will be arrested because of a parking ticket, they know it is a scam. What is the next big thing . Sometimes i say we need to think like a scammer or robo caller. The stories we have heard, scammers are employing a broader technologies. F we have seen scams that originate in email. That is an ongoing threat. My prediction is they will become more targeted, there will be more social engineering. We have so much information out on the internet that it is very easy for a scammer to go and research all of the details. Old you admitted how are and who your parents are and so on. They can find that information pretty quickly. It has been out there for a long time anyway. It is becoming more available and more detail. Ed. Scammers will become more resourceful in using it to establish credibility and more damaging scams in a more targeted way. I also think it will move to businesses. There are businesses that have been built out of hundreds of thousands of dollars in millions through Wire Transfer scams where people impersonate the cfo or controller. They can do that credibly because they have gathered a lot of information. They use the telephone as an entry point. Thank you very much. Thank you for holding this hearing on such an important topic. Next to all of you for being here to discuss an issue that unfortunately affects all of us. I served as the attorney general of my state. I can tell you this was the top Consumer Complaint to my office, by far. Just last year, we had nearly 50,000 complaints in the state of missouri. Of those came from residents who were signed up on the states no call list. You could imagine their incredible frustration to understand why in the world they were still getting calls. I joined the Multistate Coalition to seek ways to stop and reduce robo calls and fraudulent schemes. They are outrageous violations of privacy. Americans ared harmed. I was proud to sponsor the traced act;. Make aiboth of these real difference. I want to come back to the topic about rural communities. Use the rural carriers Time Division tdm Networks Rather than voice ip technology. They right to think that Authentication Technology can be used . In its present form, that is correct. Can you give us a brief description of why those are compatible . Why is that a problem . You shouldnt have to care about it. The industry should care for you. Explanation that tdm Technology Dates back to the late 1970s. It is the same reason you cant run modern programs on a 20yearold computer. Work inocols do not that old technology. It is not good enough to carry all of the signatures and encryption data that is associated with the latest stir shaken. What are some of the other ways we can protect rural residents and others who use carriers that rely on tdm networks . You mention stopping these calls up network. What are some solutions for folks who use these networks that we could be pursuing . I believe stopping it up network where the calls enter our u. S. Telecom system, that is the right place to stop them. That is not dependent on all of the technology now as the theomer serving consumer, that is dependent up higher in the system where we have a small nubmer of providers, through which the bulk of these calls come. The provider should be demanding of the rest of the industry up stream. Saying dont send us this garbage. We will require you and the people upstream needs to be responsible and diligent and do whatever it takes to stop those calls. Are there policy steps we can take, regulatory or otherwise . Incentives we can put in place to help stop these . I think there are certainly encouragements you provide. I also hear concern from the industry. We are a very litigious society. Providers are concerned will we get in antitrust trouble if we all agreed at the customer serving level that we wont accept this garbage from a fire . Will somebody accuse us of colluding . I think that is ridiculous and you are smiling. I hear that. Be veryy, we need to careful what steps we take. We dont want to get in that kind of trouble. Few, i called them and engaged with them email and telephone saying please can you stop . What i got back from two of them was threats that they were going fraud andfor harassment. Putting garbage calls on the Network Every day will tell me that i am acting fraudulently and harassing them . Incredible, thank you madam chair. That is absolutely outrageous. Senator blumenthal. Thank you all for being here today. Thank you for having this hearing. If this is the fifth hearing on robo calls since i have been in the United States senate, it is 50th. Bly the 100 if this problem has been endemic as a consumer challenge for years and years. The technology is there to stop these calls. I dont see anyone disagree. It is there. Measurentroduced a called the robocop act which would require Telecom Companies to verify caller id and provide here the important part provide free robo Call Blocking technology to consumers. And thetaken action Commerce Committee to approve measures called the traced act. It still fails to require this technology which is there and has been there for years. To be provided to consumers. Here who opposes the robocop act . Or to put it more positively, would all of you support the existingo provide calls . Ogy to block robo there is criminal shooter in aboutidst, we are talking commercial robo calls done to harass and exploit seniors. It y here who opposes what everyone supported . But iont oppose the bill have to tell you that the blocking technology at the terminating end of the call, where it is about to be delivered to the consumer, is trivially defeated by robo caller. With the great scientific knowledge we have we are celebrating the apollo anniversary, if we can put a man defeat that can we kind of robo call ingenuity . That is absolutely what we have to do. You have to record highs that for every phone call that there is a point of origination and a point of termination. The caller and the called party. s provider is perpetration of these illegal calls, at the terminating end they are virtually helpless to do anything about it. Toaging the major providers provide the best blocking technology they have isnt going to work if there is somebody at the originating in that is complicit in defeating that technology. What would be necessary in terms of technology . You have to hold those originating providers accountable. You are suggesting holding them accountable, eagerly liable would be the answer . I think that would be helpful. Then that should be part of the bill. Im not a law or writer but i think we should figure out yes. How they are so abstinent, i think there are tools that exist today that we need to fully deploy to rein them in. To the extent that could be backstopped with legislation, i think we should be pursuing that. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Senator scott. You chairman collins and rating member Ranking Member for doing this. Have hada, both of us plenty of phone calls from people who have been scammed. We have a lot of Senior Citizens in our state. You. What else can we be doing to get the public the public should know. What should we be doing to get people more knowledgeable . Have compiled a series of public announcements that they are focused towards elderly. They provided confirmation. We collaborated as well with the National Center on elder abuse in order to prepare literature that will focus and speak to that senior citizen. The information they are receiving is good for them in a way they can understand. They are informed on how to avoid being targeted. Also, what to expect. Campaigns, that we do in collaboration with our federal trade commission. We do that yearly. And weo the post Office Provide talks to customers. That have theerks interaction and they know their customers. They speak to them as well. Education is key. Responsibility. We need to go to the churches, doctors, medical facilities. We need to have social workers aware. Law enforcement has to be a part of it. Of seniors intage florida do you think are aware of all of the scams . I do not have that information. I would like to provide it to you at a later time. Are people getting more knowledgeable about it . I believe they are. The way they are getting more knowledgeable on it is we are educating the family as well. When we go visit our elder parent, we say look for the mail. They do have to have the autonomy. It is our turn to take care of them. Letting society know that it is societys responsibility, not just the elderly to take care of themselves. That has helped put the message out there. Also, legislation. We are working in collaboration , local, andtate national authorities. It has helped shine a light on this issue. What have you been able to do tot has worked in your area get seniors more knowledgeable about what is going on . Community affairs. Arena,ut to the public senior centers. We schedule with directors to appear and give advisories. We also put out Public Information articles about web scammers. Asalso ask for suggestions to what more we can do. Inviteus, if we comments, we are collectively stronger. For comments on what we could do better. First of all my heart goes out to your grandmother, what do you think has worked the best as you have watched was going on . Im not an expert. I can only speak from my grandmothers situation. I wish there were more things in place to alert her. I know so many people this has happened. I mentioned in my testimony, riends werefamily fe victims. I wish i wouldve reached out to them or, the way the criminals are reaching out to them. Scam. Ost i believe 4000 this really hurt them. Know, when ine i hear of a new scam i call my parents and tell them. I live in a rural area. Thank you very much. Thank you for bringing this very important hearing. Calls affect everyone, regardless of age. We need to bring this probably to every committee and the whole senate. It is very important. Bit of an irony because i was on the floor week. On the senate last i was waiting for an important call. I got a call and i thought it was the number. I stepped off the floor and i answered the phone. Me, my Social Security number had been the act deactivated. Im standing on the floor of the United States senate, receiving a robo call. The whole robot voice and everything. That is pretty ironic when you think about that. Me, im suffering from a summer cold. Is excuse me, one moment, im sorry. Question is that many people, especially the elderly have plans where they have to pay for every incoming call. I really apologize. Calls from constituents, it really increases their bill. Can we require Cell Phone Companies to have some kind of the ancient . So people dont have to pay for the incoming robo calls . I dont speak for the industry. I am very familiar with it. It is very difficult. As i explained, it is virtually impossible for the terminating know that this is a scam call. To block it or to not charge for it or count against a minute when. In some cases, when they do manage to block call, the good news is it doesnt go through. If they put scam likely on it and you decline, you wont get charged. There is not a mechanism, certainly not automatic and i would just tell you i would just stop talking. Thank you, we wish you Better Health soon. Are 26. 3 billion of these type calls in 2018. It feels like 5 were to me. , this last six months robot voice telling me im going to jail. I forgot who i owed money and that one. Another one saying based on my Social Security. These are voicemails they leave. Some are in a foreign language. I dont know what those are about. 106 every time i get one of these calls i put it on blocked list. Your phone forr legitimate calls anymore. Smithecause it says john does not mean it is john smith. They figured out a way to spoof your local area code. Being in the office between palm beach, miamidade, a Huge Population of elderly citizens. In addition, a huge number of elderly citizens who are not fully proficient in english. Making them even more vulnerable. Have good credit ratings. The last thing they want to do is be outside with somebody telling them unless you pay us, something bad will happen to you. Likereally seems to me something that calls for a much broader with industry participation, Public Awareness, Public Service campaign. Everybody knows you do not leave an animal in a locked car with the windows up or down. People now know you shouldnt be eating foods that the package has been tampered with. Occasions this nation has undertaken an effort about the types of dangers that lie out there. It just seems like this is something that jan elderly population, often times, the people who spot this are the caregivers. When someone falls victim, they are shamelessly associated with it. Thats why think it is so important that we have a rod Public Awareness campaign. I dont know what this year scam is, used to be i too itunes. The caregivers, children, and themselves. I think this is the kind of issue that calls for a much broader Public Awareness. Shocked at how many wellinformed individuals fall for this. I dont know if that is something any of you have had experience with. Most people know these calls are annoying. A much or how many know the risk of the scam. Education is key. Willrevent a client, it not be enticing for the scammers. Prevention is key, education as well. We brought this issue to life today. You visit your parents, grandparents, their givers. I think it is important to continue because it scammers change their tactics. It evolves with the times. It is a continuous effort. Also a lot of the people who have been victimized do not wet to come forth because speak to the victims and they come forth and say this was my last opportunity to leave something to my family. It is not a matter of the education. It is our responsibility. Education is key to prevent. All for education campaigns and i have been doing it caregivers and through places like where my parents went, continuing care facilities, those are all great places. Ca were a robo ller, down the road i will say hi im from the irs, i know you have heard our announced announcement but we have a new program and that has changed. You say that to one million people, a few of them will be compelled to believe it. You will sound so credible. It was my department that put that ad on television. It is cheaper for you now to deal with this over the phone and pay your debts via this. We can tellree that people not to leave sugar out because the answer will come. You still have to go after the ants. As of the points you made there are very few legitimate entities that have a valid reason for using different calling numbers. It makes no sense when they are outside of the country. I think that is what is worth exploring further. Thank you very much. That is the reason for you to cosponsor my bill to double the penalty. Need very clear that we an all of the above approach. We definitely need to get the technology implemented that can stop these calls and the spoofing. Which i think causes people to answer and believe those calls. We also need effective enforcement for those who have ripped off people in this country and we need the educational campaign. Role inou have played a each of those areas. I want to thank you so much for your participation today. Each of you has really made a difference. We are going to pursue this because when you look at the numbers senator rubio has said. As i outlined my opening statement, it is billions of calls coming in. I talked to a veteran in Portland Maine who testified in one of our previous hearings, he said when i saw the irs was calling me, i assumed that i must have missed a tax bill. Was the next Call Portland Police department saying we have a warrant for your arrest unless you pay up immediately, no wonder he believed that. So much a part of these scams. I want to thank the postal Inspection Service for your enforcement and the justice department. Are muche agencies more activated than ever before. Seniors safe act which became law last year is making a difference in allowing Financial Institutions to question these transactions without worrying about violating bank secrecy or privacy laws. Is and all of the above approach. I would love to do another round of questions. Ask if you would leave with us, some copies of the literature you held up. We can help distribute that. We have a book we put out every year. That would be a welcome supplement to our educational issues. Would beertainly, we glad to. Committee members will have until friday, july 26 to submit additional questions for the record. I want to thank each of you for , the educational campaign, technology. To scamso put an end perpetuated through robo calls that are literally costing america but particularly our seniors. Billions of dollars each year. I want to thank our witnesses. In the interest of time i will submit a statement for the record. I want to thank you for the work you did today. We have a lot more work to do. At the prevention level and the chokepoint that was discussed earlier. Using every bit of technology to stop it. We are grateful you are willing to bring your personal story. That has to be difficult to do. Youre helping a lot of other. You. Thank you very much. This hearing is now adjourned. I want to thank our staff for their hard work. Thank you. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [indistinct conversations] [indistinct conversations] a News Conference this afternoon, they are expected to address travel restrictions placed on them west week. You can watch live coverage at 4 00 eastern here on cspan. Online at cspan. Org, listen with the free cspan radio app. Tonight at 9 00 p. M. Eastern, millennial journalists talk about the future of journalism and talk about industry changes in fake news. A reporter for buzz few described what its like trying to be the first Media Organization to try and break a new story. We move really fast, which can be an asset. On the flip side, it can be detrimental. Really Fact Checking our stories. We have an editor and a copy editor. The park when shooting, we in one story, misidentified the shooter. Based on what some teens had told us. That kid in that track and field photo. That waslike ok, something i have learned, especially in breaking news and trying to be first, to step back and take a deep rest and question and ask and verify more. Especially with the pace of news now. More important than ever. Can watch the entire program on millennials and the future of journalism tonight at 9 00 eastern here on cspan. Cspan. Org. Or listen on the free cspan radio app. Joining us on newsmakers this week, david mcintosh, former congressman, president of tax cuts for growth. Joining us is Alex Eisenstadt and greg corti