Strategy to return to the moon and send a mission to mars. Its just over an hour. Bring thist, lets hearing to order if you dont mind. Thank you all for coming. Saturday will mark the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 mission. The moon landing still unites americans like few events in our nations history. To believe a half century has passed since the United States won the space race. Although it is fitting to celebrate such past achievements, we are pleased that nasa administrator jim to discuss is here the future of American Space exploration. Of 2017, President Trump outlined a bold vision to reinvigorate space leadership. Space leadership calls for returning humans to the moon for the First Time Since 1972. This time it will be for long time exploration and use and will be followed by manned missions to mars. Nasa had planned to return to the moon by 2028, but in the speech to the National Space council in april, Vice President announced a dramatic acceleration of that time line. Under the program, the United States will land the first woman and the next man on the moon by 2024 and accomplish a sustained presence on the moon or in lunar orbit. I share the administrations sense of urgency. As i told the administrator, the United States has entered a new space race driven by the expansion of chinas space power ambitions and the explosive potential growth for space commerce. I support setting clear goals on ambitious time lines to achieve mission success. However, in order to reach these goals, nasa and its partners will have to accomplish a great deal of work in a short amount of time. The space launch system, s. L. S. Rocket and orion need to be tested as soon as possible. We need to build multi component Lunar Landing systems and gateway outpost that docks them. Needs to be assembled in space and i know as i continue to pursue these ambitious goal, nasa will maintain its safety. It should include the completion of a full green test and there is no better place than at the space center in mississippi. The cost is a challenge for nasa. In may, the administration submitted a Budget Amendment for 1. 6 billion in additional funding to the schedule, an amount that the administrator has called a downpayment. The administrator said it could 30 billion. Ion to that calls on the congress to billion. E 4 Congress Needs more details on the funding requirements so we can be good stewards. Repiratizeation needs to include early and detailed consultation with this committee and the congress to ensure critical programs are not undermined. I look forward to the administrator to shedding light on these needs and what is required to address different components, specifically the ateway osh builter in order to have the program. It remipeds of all of past progress. But constantly changing Mission Priorities and goals set far in the future have caused americas progress, congress will perform its oversight duties and we need to provide nasa with the clarity of purpose and funding it needs for success. I want you to succeed. Im excited about this. And i hope the hearing will provide necessary insight to ke good on the legacy of apollo. And i go to senator cantwell. Thanks for holding this important hearing about the plans to return astronauts to the surface of the moon. 50 years ago, and five days later on july 20, 1969, astronauts armstrong andal doctrine were the first people to work on the moon. They landed 10 more americans d i should say three lunar recovers. Just as importantly, the Apollo Program inspired engineers and scientists, some of them went on to space careers and many of them went on to other careers of high technology. These dreamers and thirst firmly accomplished the United States as a Global Leader in innovation and technology. The space race perpetrated a thriving commercial space industry and i am proud of those companies that reside in the state of washington and many washington scientists and engineers to help us. The benefits of Space Exploration. Nasa should continue to push the boundaries of space rnings exploration and technology and nasa has outlined a plan. I appreciate that nasa is looking at the partnerships that the commercial Space Community can give in that relationship and in Space Exploration. Today nasa has been developing the rocket and spacecraft need for deep Space Exploration for more than nine years and nasas n estimation that they wont fly until 2022. They have studied the hardware needed for Lunar Mission and these key pieces can fall together in the next five years. I know you made some changes at the organization the head of human exploration and with that and nasas retirement of the space shuttle, the question of where is the leadership within the organization can deliver on this goal will be some of the things i will drill down on the question and answer part of this hearing. Nasa has yet to deliver a congressional budget for the mission beyond 2020. It is difficult for us to approve the mission unless we know the actual cost. While we sell plate this accomplishment and the fact you are continuing to be pioneers in space we need to look at the next chapter of exploration. I appreciate the vision, but i look forward to hearing from you on just exactly how we are going to meet this challenge. Thank you for holding this hearing and i would like into aerospace ead of Advisory Board who has highlighted it. Thank you, senator cantwell. And you are recognized for an opening statement. In that era, it was not just about technological prowess. We were also proud of what nasa ourin those days when astronauts, buzz aldrin and neil armstrong, walked on the surface of the moon for the first time in human history, and here we years later still celebrating that monumental, absolutely stunning achievement, but as the Ranking Member identified, we did live Additional Missions after that. A total of 12 people walked on the surface of the moon, and then the program ended, and i think that has kind of been a letdown for nasa over the last six years. We want to continue doing these stunning achievements and go further and explore more. That is what this new program is all about. We call it her to miss. With think about the history of the Apollo Program and what it meant to the United States of america. In greek mythology, apollo had a twin sister. Her name was artemis. She was the goddess of the moon. This time, under the Artemis Program, when we go forward to the moon sustainably, we go with a highly diverse highly qualified Astronaut Corps that includes women. From the Vice President that within five years, we will have the first man and first woman he said on the south pole of the moon. That is an important distinction as well. We believe the moon was bone dry up until twigget and 2009. There are hundreds of millions of water ice. Water ice represents air debris d hydrogen and oxygen when crafted in its components and put in liquid form it is the same rocket fuel and available in hundreds of millions of tons. When we go to the moon we are doing it differently. The direction is to go sustainbly and have access to the moon, but have access to the entirety of the moon so we dont miss water ice which we missed for almost 40 years. We want to go back to the moon sustainbly and have access to all parts of the moon any time we want and want this as the proving ground. This is the proving ground. It is how we learn to live and work using the resources of that world so we can take that technology and capability to mars. That is the longterm vision and we have a good start. As the chairman identified, we certainly have in the president s budget request, come out of the gate. As far as the trades we need to make to go to the moon sustainbly with an eye towards march s and do it in away that is commensurate with the budgets of the United States. Thank you for holding this hearing on the anniversary of apoll hoo and i look forward to answering any questions. I must have misspoken earlier when i said that this was the 50th anniversary of the moon landing. I was a freshman in college at the time and that could not possibly have been 50 years ago. M going to ask my staff to recalculate no one questioned you. [laughter] something thats going to be safe. Here is talk about not getting and get number for defense ondefense discretionary, getting to october 1 and move it to a c. R. , maybe a shortterm, twoweek c. R. , month long or maybe a year long. That would be counterproductive to get to where you need to go, is that correct, and how would it affect you . It would be devastating. What we lack right now is a lander, the United States of america has not had a moon lander since 1972, the last time we landed on the surface of the moon. Thats something we need to develop. Of course we have commercial partners and they have been investing their own money and we are thrilled by that. We have opportunities to achieve this goal because of the investments, some of them have already made and a number of them. We are talking about a number of private companies that have invested money. Its not cheap to build a lander and looking for support from nasa and we want to be that support. This is an important thing and in the end with the publicprivate partnership, they will have customers that are not nasa. We will have more access and grow the space economy. All of that being said, if we end up in a c. R. , that lander doesnt get developed. And we dont have money in the budget to develop a lander. It takes a good bit of time which is why we need to get started right away. If we are in a c. R. For a year or more, it would be devastating to achieve to land the next man and woman. A c. R. , continuing resolution sounds innocuous. Its way worse than that . It is. A lot of people associate and i can tell you, they associate a c. R. With keeping things steady. The reality is we then do not make investments we need to make but even worse, we continue to make investments that we dont need to make. It is a waste of money when we end up in a c. R. And that is one of my biggest concerns we will be spending money on things we dont need. You told the committee in martha nasa would examine all available options to ensure the first flight of the s. L. S. Now mis. D arte how confident are you that we can meet that deadline . I think 2020 one is definitely achievable for the arguments one lunch vehicle. As has already been identified but the Ranking Member, we have made some changes at the head of the Human Exploration Missions directory. Some of the key challenges we have had as an agencys cost and schedule, being realistic about cost and schedule, and meeting the cost and schedule milestones that we ourselves set. So in order to reset the cost and schedule of some of these programs, we have made changes at the top of the mission directory. We are moving rapidly to put the right folks in place, but i want them to be in place before we set out a new deadline for artemis one. I say that because we need by and from people who make the gency. Some of the challenges we have had in the past, nasa has not been good at setting realistic budgets and schedules and we need to get better at that. So before we announce a new date, i want to make sure we have new leadership in place. Quickly, with regard to green run, are you still determined to do it . Green run is absolutely in the baseline plan. Suarez the scope of the green run, i dont know what that will like. We will get a team in place to assess the situation and i would be more than happy to report. Some senator . Thank you, mr. Chairman. You mentioned the human space expiration administrators. Who will be making decisions on artemis . We want to make sure that we have new leadership in place before we make those decisions. Ertainly, we have experienced, qualified folks in acting positions. Amely, human extortion and Operations Command the associate administrator command the Development Division with an human expiration. We have acting folks who have been at the agency long time. In fact, they are just getting the positions. Want to find the absolute best talent and move quickly. That does not affect your decisionmaking . Within the next six weeks, it will not heard not. But before we make commitments on the scope or timelines, i want to make sur you think that was something that was missing before . I think we have a long not achievinga of cost and schedule, and in many cases, that leads to lack of confidence from folks here on the city. The 2021 Budget Development is underway right now. She was working within the administration. Within that budget, you will see the out your funding for the we are working to get an accurate budget for 2021 and in that budget, youll see accurate funding for the Artemis Program through 2024. You think we will see an accurate extrapolation and make a guesstimate . No, i think you will see the dollars we are looking at spending for the years 2022, 2023, 20 24, in order to achieve that milestone. We will have a number is what you are saying . Yes, maam. That will be soon . It will be in the regular 2021 budget process, so february 2020. Thank you. Definitely thank you for artemis. I hope than in this next mission we can use whatever tools we have to call on americas. Rightest engineers as we look at video of the last launch, we can see one thing is missing. We dont see a lot of women in those control rooms. We dont see a lot of women in those pages, but i appreciate the fact you are trying to uphold an image, so i hope well do some serious work will you will use that as a tool. There are not a lot of tools where where calling on women to help with such a national mission. On theng we can do here committee because we are not going to build the launch system for you, but we can make sure we get this weather situation correct. One of the things when the chairman was here, he said there was absolutely no legitimacy to the issues raised by nasa. Could i just get your comments on that so we can keep making progress in solving this issue and how important accurate weather forecasting information is not just for you but for the traveling public . Yes, maam. When we think about the 24 gigahertz part of the ,lectromagnetic spectrum depending on the decibel level, it will definitely bleed over to the 23. 6 gigahertz part of the spectrum. Re that when ithei bleeds over some of the sensors , in space that are looking at the earth to characterize water vapor and energy of that water vapor, some of that data could be interfered with, corrupted. I will tell you, i just want to be really clear, this was a study done by depending on that level, we could lose up to 70 of that data. And if that were to happen, it would affect our ability to predict whether, without question. I do think there could be an elegant solution. I do think that there could be an elegant solution. And this is outside my area. To do thisasas job but i do think there is an elegant solution where the decibel level could be modified to the point where we could get all of the weather data we need and still be able to operate for 5g. It might require additional cell towers. But there are other people that should be considering that. I will tell you there is a risk here. Thank you, chairman. Although it is not your thing, it is a vitally important it is vitally important. It is. Have you had a conversation about this issue . I have not. Nasa did the study formula four noah for noah. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we have mr. Scott. Thank you for being here. Last night, i have the opportunity to walk down the mall and see thousands of people from around the globe that are around the mall to watch the incredible projection of the saturn rocket on the washington monument. And it was a time to see families together. Some were having picnics or telescopes out on the mall. They had cameras and tshirts emblazoned with the nasa logo in celebration of a historic accomplishment 50 years ago. It made me incredibly proud of this country and i hope that we can find more moments like that to celebrate. Not just in this, but in sony achievements this country has accomplished. In times of Great Division and political strife, things like this can bring the country together. And he saw it last night on the mall, i think i even taxes do a picture of it. Thank you for doing that. It was a great picture. When you look back to the opportunities we have in space, just around the hearing room, my guess is that a significant majority of people were not here years ago when the United States embarked on this incredible effort. So our generation, mars could mean an incredible amount of new opportunity and hope for our country. What are two or three things this congress ought to be looking at that will ensure we are successful in prioritizing that we get back to the moon and mars. What are things we ought to be indful of . What we have to think about, as a nation, that is what nasa does for the country. It provides vision. I love these hawked about the turmoil our country was in at the time. Vietnam was raging, we had protests in the streets, we have civil rights abuses and protests. The country was torn apart, and yet there was this moment in time where all of the country, in bipartisan fashion, the entire world watched. In fact seen or heard by tens of millions of people behind the iron curtain in russia and cuba at a time when relationships ere as bad as they have ever been. So i think what we needed to be focused on as a country is here we are 50 years later when we think about apollo and the popularity of apollo when we lost three brave astronauts, there were times when apollo was a risk. It was never tremendously popular as a program until we accomplished that stunning achievement. Once we, which that achievement, here we are, 50 years after, commemorating that achievement the question is what are we doing today that 50 years after we achieve the new stunning achievement that 50 years later people will be commemorating. Hat is how we inspire them how we create the next generation of scientists or engineers. It will have benefits for the economy for National Security and defense, and for future exploration. So the key thing is to think what is that stunning achievement . I think that is finding life on another world. And in the last year, significant discoveries have been made to indicate life could very well exist on mars. You talk about some of the leadership changes. Nasas human expiration and Operations Mission directorate. Does this mean a change in nasas direction or longterm vision . Not one bit. There are incredible initiatives. While the changes in leadership mean that these strategies are being reevaluated do the changes in leadership mean that the strategies are being reevaluated . Not at all. What are things that can be developed . There are technologies can be developed and new approaches that i dont think are being considered. We have a small team of people looking at this and evaluating a short stay on mars using orbital physics that i did do not think many have considered in the past. If we did that, we could accelerate the timeline. I have said publicly i will not rule out the 2033 timeline. Of course, your friend and colleague in the house has been very keen on this timeline. I think there is the possibility that can be achieved, but we are looking at what that space would be. And we are going to do our own assessments. Certainly, i think there are ways that could be considered that would increase the timeline. Thank you for giving us something to hope for and drive for. Absolute absolutely. Thank you for holding this hearing and welcome back to our witness. Thank you. Yesterday was the actual 50th of the apollo launch. A historic event in American History and a monumental moment for Space Exploration. Last week, i was proud to present with senator cruz at a hearing discussing human space expiration in the past and the future. As we look to the future of space expiration, we must first address space industry issues we face on earth. So let me start by asking you about the workforce capacity of nasa and its partners. Nasas prime contractor has eclined by over 60 . Over 21 of the Civil Service workforce is currently eligible for retirement and more than half are over 50 years old. If we are to return to the moon, here are some of the challenges. A 2017 report found that the apability leadership test with determining the likelihood of success have regularly failed to determine if the workforce was able to meet the needs of the mission or agency. After serving as administrator for over one year, what efforts have you taken to ensure they re able to sustain longterm American Space leadership and ow can we assist nasa . Nasa has a number of programs that we use to inspire young folks to enter into the stem field. That is really where the key is. If you go back to the apollo era, most of the nasa workforce ack schmidt, who is an astronaut and geologist come a landed on the moon geologist, he has landed on the moon. We are significantly different. We have a wave of retirements coming from as you mentioned half of our workforce is above 50 years old. There are a couple of things that are important. That is getting people inspired early. And one program weve talked about that i support has direct implications for nasas workforce is first robotics. These young folks are very diverse in high school are engaged in these robotic competitions. They are absolutely mindboggling. These High School Kids can build these robots to compete at this level. What we find is that there is a direct positive correlation between these kids that participate in these activities and them going into stem fields. If you go out to jpl, where we build the robots from ours, for mars, you will talk to folks that were part of first robotics n high school. That kind of capability is tremendously valuable for the workforce that we are going to need 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and not just for nasa, although we see it in real time at nasa. We provide mentors and 10 Centers Across the United States. We have mentors embedded with these kids that are just doing mindboggling Robotics Development projects. I think first robotics is one of those things. One of the challenges we have to consider is the middlemanagement that becomes upper management. That is where we will have a gap to fill. We are working now on where we can get that talent. But the reality is we need a bench. We are actually good in developing that bench, but there is a gap you have identified. I next want to discuss nasas collaboration with universities. In december of 2018, nasa entered its orbit around the asteroid. Within months, discovered water will molecules in a never been sort never before seen phenomena. It returned a sample, allowing scientists to study up close. I am glad this mission was proposed and supported by science teams at the university f arizona. Missions like these combine innovative ideas with nasas technical expertise. Administrator, are there new programs nasa is implement in to give universities more opportunities to lead the development of space and Science Missions . And what role do you envision these partnerships having . You have correctly identified nasa has had amazing success with university partnerships, especially with the Science Mission directorate. An Asteroid Return Mission for he same time in human history, i will tell you, whether it is the university of arizona, these universities are leading the world when it comes to University Engagement with nasa and developing these programs and projects. We find that when the universities do this activity, cost and schedule happens. That is not always the case, but universities have the opportunity to do that. Going to the workforce, this directly ties in. When universities engage in these projects, they get students involved. And they enter the workforce immediately ready to take on projects for nasa. That is how we developed the workforce of the future. We have a number of different programs you have identified already, but having principal investigators of the universities the proposed and that propose these projects is a great way to stay on track and to get young folks involved. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator scott. Thank you for being here. As you know, nasas efforts are very important to florida and the florida economy. When the Obama Administration shut down manned flight, we lost about 7000 jobs which impact of the economy but also talent around the space coast. So we were able to come up through the private sector, we spent 230 million and is now hriving again. A lot of it is because of good decisions made as well as these private companies pouring in an unbelievable amount of money. We all know the importance of what you are doing. How difficult is it to come up with the numbers it takes so that you can defend have you figure, how do you do it . It is exceptionally difficult. And first of all, what kennedy has done is amazing. Becoming a multiuser spaceport where you have private Sector Companies launching rockets sidebyside with nasa and air force and everybody else, commercial, government, and one other thing, the director down there has to amazing work to grow that industry in florida. But i think one of the areas here the rest of the country could help is modeling the investments that the state of florida made into that space center. That is ultimately enabling nasa to accomplish its missions. Missions. So we were grateful for your leadership to keep that going. And there are other states around the country that could do similar things. As far as the idea of how do we come up with these kind of schedules, given how complex these missions are, it is very difficult. When we do these things, we are inventing subsystems of subsystems. And depending on how those work, we could put those in the system. And those systems are being invented for the first time. So there is a very difficult process here. We are not massproducing automobiles, for example. We are inventing things for the first time. Nasa is not a manufacturing organization. We are development organization. And now we do it alongside a lot of commercial Partners Operating out of the Kennedy Space center. So it is often hard. Where we are not good as an agency shall what we like to do is come up with a plan. If everything goes right, here s the end state. By the way, well put in 50 margins. If anyone thing goes wrong, you could eat up that margin just like this and it has follow on effects. So the risk continues on the schedule, but at the same time, the margin is gone. This puts us in a situation where we need to be more realistic about schedule and costs as we go forward one of the things i love about the agency is that so many people there have this cando spirit. A lot of people there want to make it happen, they believe they can make it happen, there some of the smartest people in the country. And i believe they can make it happen, but because our missions are sometimes so complex, any small change that has to be made takes a long time. We have had a long time hard time with that, as has been indicated. That is why we are making changes but it is something we need to get better at. Is there a thing that we can o that would create more incentives for states to invest and take more risks . I think that is a wonderful question. I would love to take it for the record record. There are a team of people sitting behind me who would love to come up with a list. Im sure we can provide the, sir that, sir. Im sure all of the states want the work done in their state if to be proud of the work done in their state. Many would do the same thing florida did if there was an opportunity. I think you are right. Thank you very much for your presence here today. Thank you for your leadership and vision. I am impressed by you, as i have indicated previously. I appreciate what youre doing to take nasa into a different realm and take our country with it. Thank you, sir. You are welcome. First of all, you said something earlier that i want to flesh out. That is something i have been looking for for a while as an appropriate in this arena. If i heard you correctly, when i heard you say was that what we have a oneyear 1. 6 billion west, the administration you are working to have you put together this request, that will then include the numbers i have been looking for. Despite what you and the senator had to say, those numbers are difficult to come by. But for me and others who are interested in this program, we need to learn not what it costs over the life of the project. Did i understand your answer correctly . Yes, sir. There are trades we have to negotiate out. That happens inside the administration. Of course, the chairman of the Space Council is the Vice President. So we need to come up with what these trades are, come to an agreement. We have to be careful we keep our eyes on what the goal is. Our goal is first woman on the oon in 2024. And once those are made, committed to the baseline and make sure we come up to the hill here and share it with our members of congress and senators. When you say trades, trades ithin nasas budget . Within the architecture. I will give you an example. Look at apollo, we had one lender, one human lander one lander, one human lander, and because of that, there were major risks. Apollo went to the moon when it was not ready. It took years, not years, months. The question is how do we mitigate risk . And use what did not exist back then, commercial companies, that are willing to make their own investments. So there are a lot of variables at play. Some Companies Want to invest as much as 30 , maybe even ore. So that helps us if they get selected. If they dont get selected company does not help us. E want to make sure they are capable of achieving the end state, but private Companies Want to make this investment. Depending on how much they want to invest changes the number. The other thing is, do we want just one lander . The we want three . Do we want three . In my view, which have at least three that are receiving support from commercial industries. And as time goes on, down to two. That used them motivated to be one of the two companies. That mitigates risk. If something goes wrong with one, the others go forward and we can stay on schedule. I did not artfully ask my question. You artfully answered it, but what we are talking about is a fiveyear plan for artists. Artemis. I understand we wont have a fiveyear plan for verything. We can stay on schedule. You artfully answered and we both knew what i was talking about. What we are talking about is a fiveyear plan for artemis. I understand we are not going to have a fiveyear plan for everything nasa is going to do. To begin the process of funding artemis, we need to know how it is estimated money is going to be required in the future. You and the chairman had a conversation in todays hearing i would highlight. None of this will work and i need your assistance with the situation, the assistance of our former colleagues, to know and it it needs to be avoided. In 13 seconds. Tell me we were at the australian embassy, what International Role is there in artemis. We look at the space station and achievement of technology and diplomacy. 158 nations and United States is the lead on it. But we want to take that Coalition Coalition and go to the moon and groy it from there. Thats what it is all about. When we go to the moon, we have a diverse Astronaut Corps that includes women. The coalition is important. There are other countries and other reasons why it is hard to come up with the numbers. And in some cases, they are willing to put for the a good chunk of their money to help us achieve a sustainable presence on the moon. Administrator, thanks to the president and Vice President to their leadership on space. Senator sullivan. Good to see you again, administrator. Thanks for your leadership here and your team. I think this is what senator gardner said and there is an opportunity for a lot more here. Have you read the book american moon shot . I read excerpts. Rice university professor. Good read and i think it shows a lot of historical analogies now and what happened back then. Have you seen the movie the martian . Yes. I think there is an opportunity that hollywood is doing movies based on inspiring books do what senator sinema was highlighting is get our young men and women, High School Kids throughout this country excited about space and nasa, the way it was during the kennedy moonshot years as laid out in that Douglas Brinkley book. What should we be doing to help you on that mission, which i think is a great opportunity, but i dont think we are taking full advantage of it. How do we inspire americas youth to not only get involved but bring us to the next level, because they clearly have the ability but we have to inspire them. I like what you said, you called it kennedys moonshot. By the time we landed on the moon, president kennedy, he had already been deceased for six years, maybe seven years. It was his vision. It was his vision and thats the important thing to remember especially for the house and the senate, that this is a project when we talk about going to mars, this is a project a vision has to be laid out but has to be consistent and congress can help. When i was in the house, we passed the nasa transition authorization act of 2017, signed by the president , to keep that purpose. So i really think the purpose is what enables these things to move forward and congress is the agency that can help. But as far as inspiring the next generation, sir, we have to be thinking about the stunning achievements, what are the thicks a lot of people talked on this committee about 50 years ago, i cant believe it was 50 years ago. Im the first nasa administrator was not alive when the first moonshot occurred. I dont have that memory. Let me ask you a bold stroke. I was reading your bulletin to your to the nasa employees and if you can help me derstand, you talk about the Artemis Mission within the lunar vicinity by 2022 and you were talking about 2024 on the landing and we only have a couple more minutes, but if you could lay out the schedule is on the 2024 being back moon . Apollo 11 had the saturn 5 rockets, lunar module and command module, what is the similarity, whats the difference, how big is the s. L. S. , going to be bigger than saturn 5 rockets . Are we orbitting the moon with command module . Whats the vision . And then you have a minute left, lay out the vision for mars. I can do it. Here is what we are doing. Sls rocket, the biggest rocket ever built. It is more powerful than the saturn five as far as the feet high, im not sure. Its taller than the statue of liberty. Its big enough. The crew capsule at the top of that. We would like to see that go around the moon, uncrewed, in 2021. When it goes around the moon, we re talking about being able to navigate around the moon, change orbits, test all the systems we need to test with the crew capsule and the European Service module. That includes International Partnership right there. For artemis ii, when we have crew on board, the vicinity matters. With artemis ii, we are going to launch into earth orbit with all the metabolic systems for human life support and we are going to test all those systems in earth orbit for a period of time. Why . We dont want to test them at the moon. We are going to test them in earth orbit and then take that orion crew capsule and launch it on a free return trajectory. That will be the first time we send humans to the vicinity of the moon, and we are looking at 2022, 2023 for that mission. Then of course, artemis iii. We will be aggregating what you identified as command module, we want a reusable command module hat is there for 15 years. Artemis iii, we launched to a space station in orbit around the moon, we call it gateway. It is a reusable command module where we will have aggregated a human landing system. Our astronauts can go into the gateway, get into the landing system, go to the surface of the moon, and back to the gateway, then back to the crew capsule and back to earth. That is the architecture for the 2024 Lunar Landing. It is eminently achievable. A lot of things have to go right. Have to get the budget to achieve it. If all of that comes together, which i think it will, we will be having the first woman on the south pole of the moon in 024. Thank you, mr. Chairman. That is very exciting and a. Senator blackburn. Thank you you, mr. Chairman. And administrator, good to see ou in this position. I have known your passion for nasa, and that is really what you wanted to do. To see your leadership and your vision, we love it. I couple of questions i have dealing with china and great power competition. As you talk about commercialization in artemis, in gateway, what are your contingency plans if what you need is not commercially available or it is not mission ready, or let us say it is already earmarked for defense riorities . What is your contingency plan so that you stay on schedule . When we look at the architecture, we want to build dissimilar redundancy into as much of the architecture as possible. In fact, we talked about landers a little bit earlier, we talked about having multiple human landers that can go back and forth to the moon from the gateway. Why do we want multiple human landers in the Development Process . If one of them falls behind her cannot meet the milestones, the others can go forward. That is how we build reusable i should say, dissimilar redundancy into the architecture so we can keep moving forward ven if one falls behind. What we do not want to do is end up in a position where we put all our eggs into one basket and we cannot achieve the milestone. That is what we have done with sls and orion. Those are the only two systems that exist to that are going to be able to get us to the moon. We are going to finish those programs. They are going to be the flagship of our Moon Missions thereafter. That being said, we want to make sure we have multiple dissimilar capabilities that dont get us bogged down on the way. That sounds great. Mr. Chairman, im going to yield back my time. I know we have a vote on the floor that we need to finish. Thank you, mr. Administrator. Yes maam. Thank you, mr. Chairman, very much. Massachusetts has played a proud role in the United StatesSpace Program from the leadership of president kennedy to the hundreds of scientists who worked in labs at m. I. T. And other institutions in massachusetts. The massachusetts factories that manufacture gear for the missions, the ingenuity and knowhow of massachusetts was key in changing the impossible to the possible with our scientists and engineers and physicists and designers and manufacturers. At the space race has turned from a sprint into a series of marathons, it becomes more important to make smart and balanced decisions for the longterm health of our Space Program. You have estimated that it will cost around an additional 20 to 30 billion to bring astronauts back to the surface of the oon. Nasa asked for the ability to move funds to its moon landing program. So mr. Administrator, can you commit that nasa will not decimate valuable programs such as those in the science directorate, which study everything from solar winds to the possibility of life on mars in order to fund this mission to he moon . Just so you are aware, senator, i have worked very hard to make sure the additional money needed for artemis did not cannibalize any other parts of nasas budget. I worked hard to achieve that. We achieved that. Where that money came from, that was well above my pay grade, but i can commit to you i continue to work to make sure we do not cannibalize one part of nasa to feed another. I will tell you why. It does not work. We tried this before in the 1990s where we were going to fund the Space Exploration initiative by taking money out of the interNational Space station. That created all kinds of problems. E were going to take it out of the signs mission directorate. That created partisan problems. In the end, it never works. What we are trying to do is make sure people understand that this achievement will be accomplished so long as there is strong bipartisan support. Thats what we are looking for. Thank you. That would be my goal as well working with the chairman and the other members of the committee. It is clear we cannot lift our gaze to the moon while engaging in tunnel vision here. Yes, sir. We have to ensure sciences fully funded. Nasa was appropriated 218 million for lunar science in fiscal year 2019. Mr. Administrator, has nasa been working with the National Academies or broader Academic Community in determining the projects that will be flown on the commercial Lunar Payload Services . I will have to take that for the record. It has been my direction to follow the guidance of the National Academy of sciences. If there is any concern that we are not doing that, i would love to know it. As far as i am concerned, we ought to be following the guidance of the National Academy of science. It is imperative we stay close to the National Academies and the full scientific community. It will enhance the likelihood we will be successful. It has been more than 50 years since this country has built some of the technology we need on the moon, including lunar spacesuits. A Company Based in worchester built the suits for the Gemini Program and the radio headsets for the apollo missions. We have no spacesuits or deep Space Missions today, and it can take years to get Technology Ready to use, raising questions about how we meet this 2020 for target. Mr. Administrator, what is nasas plan for the procurement of spacesuits for the 2024 moon landing. We just had this conversation this morning. It is a challenge. Spacesuits are very complex. They are not easy to come by. A spacesuit for the space station is very different than a spacesuit for the moon. Youve got lunar dust, youve got different thermal challenges you dont have in low earth orbit. We do need the development of a new suit. What we are looking at is a spacesuit architecture that is flexible, one that can be used in low earth orbit and at the moon, and as early as 2020, we will be testing parts of a spacesuit on the interNational Space station. The goal is ultimately to test the suits on the interNational Space station. Right now, the plan is 2023. F we were to get artemis funded, we could accelerate those to build margin into their schedule. I would request from you a imeline from nasa on what your plan is to develop these spacesuits. Without some kind of a plan that is in place, i think it would be important for us to see what that is. Absolutely. We just will be able to put it in place. Thank you for your service. Thank you. I would commend to your attention the recent article on the first moon landing, which was published in smithsonian magazine, wherein it was evealed that the designer of he spacesuit was holding his breath when the two astronauts ere bounding, jumping up and down on the moon, for fear that buzz aldrin would, in his exuberance, fall over and hit a jagged rock. Things turned out ok. But that was a moment of anxiety. Other members were going to try to be here, but we will ilibuster no longer. We thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. We wish you well. There is great enthusiasm for his topic. We look forward to hearing from you again. The hearing record will remain open for two weeks. Senators are asked to submit questions to the record. The witnesses are requested to submit written answers to the committee as soon as possible. So we conclude the hearing. Thank you, sir. We now adjourn. Thank you, chairman. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] on cspan three president ial leadership surveys taken between from Woodrow Wilson drops six to 11 points and bill clinton rises from 21st to the 15th spot. Learn more about the lives and leadership skills of the 44 chief executives in cspans. The president s available wherever books are sold or cspan. Org